New SEC basketball coaches and their struggles

[Coach34]

Anybody notice how every new coach that comes into the SEC, outside of Calapari, struggles these days?

Kwanza Martin at Tenn is about to head to his 3rd NIT in 3 years. Nothing close to what Pearl did
Mike Anderson hasnt made it to the NIT yet in his 3rd season at UPig
Mark Fox is slowly working his way to unemployment in his 5th at Georgia- 1 NCAA in 5 years
Anthony Grant has 1 NCAA in 5 years with Bama
Tony Barbee at Auburn has been beyond awful
SC killed another coaching career and is now working on ending Frank Martin's
Rick Ray is having a tough time cleaning up the Stands mess

Every new hire in the last 5 years has struggled- are the coaches- or is it the players in the South and the AAU culture killing SEC basketball?

[thf24]

Good post. Definitely shows we aren't years behind where we should be relative to the rest of the conference like so many seem/want to think.

I think Calipari is responsible for this idea a portion of our fanbase has that any coach worth a damn should be able to pull a program out of the dumpster, immediately recruit lights out, and have it back on the NCAA bubble in two years. Yep, if Calipari, a veteran coach and recruiter, can quickly take Kentucky, one of college basketball's most prestigious and successful teams, right back to the top, no reason Ray shouldn't be doing the same at MSU.******

[scottycameron]

As football rises in the SEC to new incredible heights, basketball falls to new lows. It's how it works.

[FlabLoser]

Our players are grinding so hard. I hope we get some talent in here while the energy is still high.

Crootin, Ricky Ray. Its not just for Hugh Freeze.

[msugolf]

I think its a combo of both AAU and the rise of youth football in the South. Football has become a year round sport now and with the rise of 7-on-7 it has become corporatized. Your best athletes are now playing football and devoting more time to it, hence less time to work on basketball fundamentals and shooting. That's why you see a lot of athletic, raw basketball players in the south. Your star players, the Malik Newmans of the world, aren't playing other sports. Thats more indicative of the northern player IMO. Thats why you see guys who may be better "basketball" players than athletes at these midwest and northern schools. Basketball has become the cold weather demographic sport.

The crazy thing is that most of this transformation has taken place in the last 10-15 years. You can look at our general recruiting area and see the decline in the player. There used to always be quality players in this state, Timmy Bowers, Detrick White, Ontario Harper, Markell Patterson, Marcus Bullard, etc. Guys that might not be NBAers but could flat out play. Those type of guys are playing football nowadays.

And the AAU culture/coaching has only added fuel to the fire. AAU for the most part is nothing but trying to out-athlete the other player/team.

Personally I wouldn't mind if Ray recruited predominantly internationals and players outside the South.

[Coach34]

I think its a combo of both AAU and the rise of youth football in the South. Football has become a year round sport now and with the rise of 7-on-7 it has become corporatized. Your best athletes are now playing football and devoting more time to it, hence less time to work on basketball fundamentals and shooting. That's why you see a lot of athletic, raw basketball players in the south. Your star players, the Malik Newmans of the world, aren't playing other sports. Thats more indicative of the northern player IMO. Thats why you see guys who may be better "basketball" players than athletes at these midwest and northern schools. Basketball has become the cold weather demographic sport.

The crazy thing is that most of this transformation has taken place in the last 10-15 years. You can look at our general recruiting area and see the decline in the player. There used to always be quality players in this state, Timmy Bowers, Detrick White, Ontario Harper, Markell Patterson, Marcus Bullard, etc. Guys that might not be NBAers but could flat out play. Those type of guys are playing football nowadays.

And the AAU culture/coaching has only added fuel to the fire. AAU for the most part is nothing but trying to out-athlete the other player/team.

Personally I wouldn't mind if Ray recruited predominantly internationals and players outside the South.

great post. And agreed on recruiting internationals and players outside the South.

Ironically, I hear that Stands is/has been overseas scouting the last few weeks

[bully99]

Maybe it's the coaches being hired. Ever thought of that.

[Coach34]

Maybe it's the coaches being hired. Ever thought of that.

Hard to believe SEC AD's would make 8 bad hires in a row

[scottycameron]

Hard to believe SEC AD's would make 8 bad hires in a row

Exactly. It's pretty obvious it's the league not the coaches. People always talk about certain schools being a graveyard for coaches. I think we can say that the SEC as a whole (again, I don't include KY in this) is a basketball coaching graveyard league. It sure seems that way.

[bully99]

I agree coach, but the conference needs more "basketball players" and less"athletes" ,they need skilled players who can play the game. Tony larussa once said about baseball, the hell with athletes, I want somebody who can play the damn game. Same thing with basketball.

[tcdog70]

Sonny, Wimp, and Dale Brown would mop up the SEC

[Dawg61]

I agree coach, but the conference needs more "basketball players" and less"athletes" ,they need skilled players who can play the game. Tony larussa once said about baseball, the hell with athletes, I want somebody who can play the damn game. Same thing with basketball.

This in a nutshell. I think there's two things mainly wrong with the SEC in basketball and almost all the coaches are making the same mistakes. 1. They are recruiting athletes first because everyone else has athletes and they think they'll get destroyed without them. 2. They are using the athletes in the wrong style/system. If you're going to "out-athlete" the next guy you've got to play hell on wheels up-tempo style basketball and you MUST be able to shoot threes very well and score a ton of points in transition. Like the old Runnin Rebels. If you want to play disciplined fundamental basketball you are going to have to recruit from those types of high school programs and again you have to SHOOT the basketball very well. The South is full of bad shooting athletes. If Arkansas for example could consistently shoot well they would be amongst the top and same with Missouri. Get back to the basics and there's nothing more basic than being a great shooter. Enough with all the drive to the bucket types of guards and get more Chris Lofton and Chris Jackson type SHOOTERS. Look at Florida, yeah they have great athletes in the POST but their guards aren't phenomenal athletes they just all can shoot threes above .30%. We can have the same thing at State. Just takes better recruiting and better roster management. I will also add that it wouldn't hurt if State could learn how to develop shooting amongst the players. Then you can get great athletes and develop them into great shooters. Go get a ****ing shooting coach.

[War Machine Dawg]

This in a nutshell. I think there's two things mainly wrong with the SEC in basketball and almost all the coaches are making the same mistakes. 1. They are recruiting athletes first because everyone else has athletes and they think they'll get destroyed without them. 2. They are using the athletes in the wrong style/system. If you're going to "out-athlete" the next guy you've got to play hell on wheels up-tempo style basketball and you MUST be able to shoot threes very well and score a ton of points in transition. Like the old Runnin Rebels. If you want to play disciplined fundamental basketball you are going to have to recruit from those types of high school programs and again you have to SHOOT the basketball very well. The South is full of bad shooting athletes. If Arkansas for example could consistently shoot well they would be amongst the top and same with Missouri. Get back to the basics and there's nothing more basic than being a great shooter. Enough with all the drive to the bucket types of guards and get more Chris Lofton and Chris Jackson type SHOOTERS. Look at Florida, yeah they have great athletes in the POST but their guards aren't phenomenal athletes they just all can shoot threes above .30%. We can have the same thing at State. Just takes better recruiting and better roster management. I will also add that it wouldn't hurt if State could learn how to develop shooting amongst the players. Then you can get great athletes and develop them into great shooters. Go get a ****ing shooting coach.

Thus why I wanted to see us get a coach with a 40 Minutes of Hell background. But considering how that strategy has worked for Mike Anderson and Arkansas, I'm really starting to believe the SEC should just write off hoops as a lost cause for almost every school not named UK.

[Esmerelda Villalobos]

Coach, it isnt just a ray issue, it is a sec issue. Ive been to several games this year. It aint what it was 10 years ago. The players are worse and the skill set is worse. Not sure how you fix that. When you win 22 games and your division and arent ranked and are on the bubble, you are a shitty mid major conference. The sec needs to get serious about bball or it will continue.

I honestly wont be surprised to see baseball surpass it in 20 years. The potential is there for baseball if we tap it. Grills, beer, sun, girls, slow game you dont have to watch the whole time. Basically, a tailgate with sports going on

[War Machine Dawg]

Coach, it isnt just a ray issue, it is a sec issue. Ive been to several games this year. It aint what it was 10 years ago. The players are worse and the skill set is worse. Not sure how you fix that. When you win 22 games and your division and arent ranked and are on the bubble, you are a shitty mid major conference. The sec needs to get serious about bball or it will continue.

I honestly wont be surprised to see baseball surpass it in 20 years. The potential is there for baseball if we tap it. Grills, beer, sun, girls, slow game you dont have to watch the whole time. Basically, a tailgate with sports going on

I'd make the argument baseball is, and has been, bigger than hoops for a while at State.

[Dawg61]

I'm not opposed to the idea of recruiting internationally and outside the South some. All the smaller sports do it and their rosters are relatively the same size as bball. Gonzaga does it and they have been a consistent top 25 program for over 10 years now. Canada also has players. Recruit up north. Isn't Ray from the Purdue tree? Did he not get any connections while there? Argentina and Spain have decent basketball. Think outside the box. Recruit small private schools in Indiana for 3 point shooters. There's a million different avenues we've never taken so why do we keep going down the same street the last 15 failed SEC coaches have gone?

[Esmerelda Villalobos]

I'd make the argument baseball is, and has been, bigger than hoops for a while at State.

Your prob right but 10 years ago the hump was magical. Man, lrob and winsome, there wasnt any empty seat there

[War Machine Dawg]

Your prob right but 10 years ago the hump was magical. Man, lrob and winsome, there wasnt any empty seat there

No doubt. I was in school during that stretch, and it was amazing. We'd have friends camping out to make sure we had seats. Won't ever forget Winsome absolutely GOING OFF on I think it was Auburn, hitting something like 7 treys.

[Esmerelda Villalobos]

No doubt. I was in school during that stretch, and it was amazing. We'd have friends camping out to make sure we had seats. Won't ever forget Winsome absolutely GOING OFF on I think it was Auburn, hitting something like 7 treys.

I was at the game that winsome shut down jj reddick. He was the best defender ive ever seen at msu

[esplanade91]

great post. And agreed on recruiting internationals and players outside the South.

Ironically, I hear that Stands is/has been overseas scouting the last few weeks

Not weeks. Summer 2013 my friend met him at an airport on his way to eastern Europe to scout some players.

[Coach34]

Sounded like he has been back since...he is working hard to get back into coaching this March or April

[esplanade91]

Sounded like he has been back since...he is working hard to get back into coaching this March or April

Good for him. He's still a relatively young guy in the coaching world and I hope he goes to a program he can remove some of the stigma he left MSU with. Kind of scratching my head as to why we never got many European players here but he seems to be hard pressed to bring some to his next job though.

[tcdog70]

With the new rules. The hand checking of guards and almost no charges called, having guards that can drive and draw fouls is the way to go. Smart guards that seek contact and then make free throws would be what I would look for. If Chicken could make free throws he could score 20 a night. But Ray would have to Build an offense around attacking the basket. Chicken would be twice as effective if we had just 1 guy that could shoot. Also it would help Ware. His effectiveness is controlled because of double teams.

[gtowndawg]

As football rises in the SEC to new incredible heights, basketball falls to new lows. It's how it works.

15 years ago, Memphis didn't put out 2 elite football players a year. Every kid played basketball and that was it, I don't care what size they where. Now, Memphis puts out 5 or 6 elite football players a year. The kids just play more football than they use to since it's so popular right now.

Ex: I played against Cedric Henderson in highschool. Today, would be play basketball or football? He'd be a strong, 6'7" tight end with soft hands. There's alot of those guys that don't play basketball anymore or if they do it's just something to pass the time until spring football.

[HailState39110]

Stans brought in a couple of Euro guys: Michael Ignerski and Zedakis who was kicked off last year. I really liked the way Ignerski played

[BrunswickDawg]

Ex: I played against Cedric Henderson in highschool.

As in Cedric Henderson from Marietta, then to UGA (after commitments to multiple schools), and briefly with the Hawks? If so, I probably heckled you if you came to to play at MHS. Man that guy could ball - and you are spot on.

You see this in Georgia pretty heavily right now. All the athletes are playing football because the odds of moving to the next level are so much higher. Many of the traditional "power" HS basketball teams are suffering too b/c those top talents that play AAU together are all teaming up in high school to suck away even more talent to the haves. Elijah's team at Wheeler is good example.