Someone please make me feel ok about basketball going forward

[RC3]

Are we doing anything to address our depth issues? How is recruiting going? I saw where we got a commit from another guard out of GA but man we are sooooo thin the post. That and we need a legitimate shooter. We are playing ok today but we will run out of gas a few minutes into the second half. You just can't keep that level of intensity up for a whole game without some depth and we have Zero. I don't understand how two years in a row we are dealing with a team that doesn't have a full roster.

[civildawg]

I'm giving ray a pass this year but next year I'm not. I'm not expecting to make the tournament but we just look stupid sometimes

[Coach34]

We have 2 redshirting and 3 signed coming in. And we only lose 1 player

Next year will be better

[RC3]

We are basically getting blown out in every second half we play and are completely incompetent on the road. I still have optimism that ray is the guy but I need to see us start getting some decent players here. Anytime a guy like tyson Cunningham is seeing significant minutes, you know you have problems. I think sword, ware and ready are decent sec basketball players. Need a lot to go with them though

[dogshiek]

...We'll win the recruiting battle next year.....

[RC3]

Can you tell me about the three coming in? And why are we redshirting kids right now when we really could use a few more bodies

[tcdog70]

Has Ray signed a guard over 6'?.

[Dawgbite]

It will be over in about a month!

[HailState39110]

Still no shooters next year or someone who can knock down a 3 . Dunlap is supposed to be able to knock down some buckets but I think it will take a little while before he adjust to the college game. We need some more Barry Stewart, Ravern Johnson, Timmy Bowers, Shane Power types. Guys who can bust a zone after a couple of trips down the court

[HailState39110]

I post that and they show a stat on TV that our first 28 points were scored from the post or foul line

[chef dixon]

We are bringing in 5 new bodies next year and only losing a soft big body in Borchert. If Ray can't take that team to the NIT next year, not sure about his ability to bring in the right guys. Keep in mind, we won't be young and inexperienced next year.

[msugolf]

Can you tell me about the three coming in? And why are we redshirting kids right now when we really could use a few more bodies

Don't expect much in the scoring department from the 3 signees or the 2 guys redshirting. Dunlap is the only guard and he's extremely limited. Black is tall and that's it (averaged around 8 pts/game in high school). Houston (best of the signees) is decent. About the 4th or 5th best prospect in Alabama but not a shooter. Picks up most of his points around the basket.

The other 2 are Ndoye, a 6'9" C who'll basically be another body down low but definitely not a scorer and Daniels, a JUCO forward that was his teams 3rd leading scorer last year at 11 pts/game.

[RC3]

Don't expect much in the scoring department from the 3 signees or the 2 guys redshirting. Dunlap is the only guard and he's extremely limited. Black is tall and that's it (averaged around 8 pts/game in high school). Houston (best of the signees) is decent. About the 4th or 5th best prospect in Alabama but not a shooter. Picks up most of his points around the basket.

The other 2 are Ndoye, a 6'9" C who'll basically be another body down low but definitely not a scorer and Daniels, a JUCO forward that was his teams 3rd leading scorer last year at 11 pts/game.

Ouch

[DanDority]

It will be over in about a month!

I LOLed!

[BullDog]

Don't expect much in the scoring department from the 3 signees or the 2 guys redshirting. Dunlap is the only guard and he's extremely limited. Black is tall and that's it (averaged around 8 pts/game in high school). Houston (best of the signees) is decent. About the 4th or 5th best prospect in Alabama but not a shooter. Picks up most of his points around the basket.

The other 2 are Ndoye, a 6'9" C who'll basically be another body down low but definitely not a scorer and Daniels, a JUCO forward that was his teams 3rd leading scorer last year at 11 pts/game.
Stick to Golf, Please.

We will have to spend some money to keep Ray.

[Dawgbite]

Watching this basketball team is very similar to watching us line up for a field goal!

[dogshiek]

^Dawgbite is right. ^ Can't hit a jump shot or a field goal.

[chef dixon]

Steele and Wendell would have been pretty valuable assets to this team the more you watch us play.

[msugolf]

Stick to Golf, Please.

We will have to spend some money to keep Ray.

Based on what? I don't deal in hypotheticals, I go off actualities. Its funny, how people get their feathers ruffled easily when you don't conform. And for the record, I was a SG for a state-runner up team, my college roommate played on a MSU final four team, and I can't stand Stansbury (for the people who automatically assume if you're not a Ray fan then you must be a Stans fan). So I think I know the sport fairly well thank you.

I never said Ray wasn't a good coach; I just don't think he can recruit.

[HailState39110]

You roommates with Whit Hughes or Bart Hyche?

[maroonmania]

We have 2 redshirting and 3 signed coming in. And we only lose 1 player

Next year will be better

Not unless someone on our team magically becomes a scoring threat.

[thf24]

I'm not panicking yet about the mediocre recruiting so far. It's got to be pretty hard to sell yourself as practically a no-name less than two years into your first head coaching gig. I think that will start to change if Ray can just put together a few solid seasons in the next few years, which I think he will. While our incoming class isn't stellar, it should put our depth issues to rest, and a system like Ray's doesn't require top talent to compete, as evidenced by Shaka Smart and VCU among others.

[maroonmania]

Based on what? I don't deal in hypotheticals, I go off actualities. Its funny, how people get their feathers ruffled easily when you don't conform. And for the record, I was a SG for a state-runner up team, my college roommate played on a MSU final four team, and I can't stand Stansbury (for the people who automatically assume if you're not a Ray fan then you must be a Stans fan). So I think I know the sport fairly well thank you.

I never said Ray wasn't a good coach; I just don't think he can recruit.

That was always my hesitation about canning Stans. With all his program's issues, he wasn't known as "The Recruiter" for nothing. College basketball coaching is probably 75% about recruiting. If you don't have the players you've got no chance and HS basketball players that can make an impact in college are much more easily identified than HS football players.

[HailState39110]

Will we be better next year ? A little. I think we win 2 more before the SECT and finish 5-13 in the league this year. Next year we will be more like 7-11 or 8-10 in conference . Houston will add a little scoring and Ndoye will add some depth in the post. No NIT next year IMO

[HancockCountyDog]

A bear friend of mine compared Ray to Rod Barnes, and the more I watch the more I see what he is talking about. I hope Ray can prove me wrong.

[FlabLoser]

Ray just needs to work the crootin machine,

[starkvegasdawg]

Can't possibly get any worse.

[dickiedawg]

We're a football/baseball school.

[Coach34]

Will we be better next year ? A little.

Yes we will. We are a team of Sophomores and Freshmen. Having depth next year will make a world of difference.

Ware will be better
Sword will be better
Ready and Davis are playing their first year of college basketball- they will be improved
Bloodman has turned into a solid back-up PG

People get impatient but you have to look at where you are. Maturity and experience make a world of difference

[Dawg61]

Ray refuses to play Moore and Bear and those two are no worse than 3 that play all the time. Then we lose every game because we are spent in the second half. Therefore Ray cares MORE about being the stubborn coach that plays only his favorites than he does about actually WINNING the game. Don't call it bullshit. It's the TRUTH. We have 11 basketball players. NOT EIGHT. Just finding a way to rest the players for a couple extra minutes BEFORE we get spent would make a huge difference. Yet Ray refuses to do that.

[thunderclap]

How about: It can't get any worse?

[thf24]

How can't it get any worse when we aren't even the worst team in our conference? Yeah, we all know, we aren't in a great spot in basketball right now and it's hard to see right now how exactly we're going to get back to where we're used to being. But this histrionic, doomsday attitude some of you have and insist on maintaining isn't helping at all, and makes you look pretty ridiculous to those of us looking at the situation objectively and rationally.

[mcdawg]

I post that and they show a stat on TV that our first 28 points were scored from the post or foul line

I was at the game, and it was hard to watch - we have no shooters or elite players. The atmosphere is gone - most people that I saw were looking at their phones and not at the game. I was bored, as I was the last 2 games (we even won) that I attended. How can you enjoy us scoring 25 points a half. OM scored 91 today. Basketball is no longer relevant at State - nobody keeps up with it, nobody goes to games, and the ones at the game are bored. One good thing - it is very easy to drive up 15 minutes to tip-off and no traffic jams when you leave (left right before the end and was in a restaurant in 5 minutes).

[Political Hack]

we need some scorers. if we had 2-3 guys that could fill it up we'd be much, much better.

[maroonmania]

Yes we will. We are a team of Sophomores and Freshmen. Having depth next year will make a world of difference.

Ware will be better
Sword will be better
Ready and Davis are playing their first year of college basketball- they will be improved
Bloodman has turned into a solid back-up PG

People get impatient but you have to look at where you are. Maturity and experience make a world of difference

Depth will primarily help us not just totally fade out in the second half but just because a lot of these guys get a year older its not going to make them shoot the ball better. Most guys that are true scorers in college basketball are scoring consistently by their sophomore season. I don't understand why we aren't trying to add a top notch perimeter JUCO shooter to the mix we have now? We need a JUCO guard to come in that is knocking down 20 a night primarily from the outside on his JUCO team.

[mcdawg]

Depth will primarily help us not just totally fade out in the second half but just because a lot of these guys get a year older its not going to make them shoot the ball better. Most guys that are true scorers in college basketball are scoring consistently by their sophomore season. I don't understand why we aren't trying to add a top notch perimeter JUCO shooter to the mix we have now? We need a JUCO guard to come in that is knocking down 20 a night primarily from the outside on his JUCO team.

Maroonmania - google Josh Gray. He had committed to State but didn't come after Stans left. He is averaging 37 points and 6 assists a game - and just signed with LSU. He would have been on our team with Sword, Ware, and Fred plus others. But, we all wanted a team that played hard and hustled over talent.

[maroonmania]

Maroonmania - google Josh Gray. He had committed to State but didn't come after Stans left. He is averaging 37 points and 6 assists a game - and just signed with LSU. He would have been on our team with Sword, Ware, and Fred plus others. But, we all wanted a team that played hard and hustled over talent.

Very good chance if Stans had been retained that Gray and Hood would both be scoring for us but we would still have a soap opera or a transfer might still have happened. Point is that we seldom lacked talent with Stans but I'm concerned whether Ray will ever recruit enough sufficient talent to compete at an NCAA tournament level. Guess we will all find out over the next couple of years.

[Dawg61]

Bruce Pearl's show cause ends Aug 23rd

[Political Hack]

Very good chance if Stans had been retained that Gray and Hood would both be scoring for us but we would still have a soap opera or a transfer might still have happened. Point is that we seldom lacked talent with Stans but I'm concerned whether Ray will ever recruit enough sufficient talent to compete at an NCAA tournament level. Guess we will all find out over the next couple of years.

and Jalen and Wendell.

it's a weird feeling but to me, it's a question of 1) suck now in hopes of reaching something special, or 2) win 19-23 and have a ceiling of being an NCAA participant without a real shot to make a run.

[Dawg61]

and Jalen and Wendell.

it's a weird feeling but to me, it's a question of 1) suck now in hopes of reaching something special, or 2) win 19-23 and have a ceiling of being an NCAA participant without a real shot to make a run.

Stans wasn't the answer. I'd rather burn through 10 coaches to finally get to the right one then to stay with the wrong one any longer. Stansbury is incapable of even making a Sweet 16. I want to see another Final Four before we all die. That's not asking for too much. I will also say I expect my AD to make better hires than the coaches he fires. Especially when he goes on his own and hires who only he wanted. This isn't Scott Stricklin University.

[mcdawg]

Very good chance if Stans had been retained that Gray and Hood would both be scoring for us but we would still have a soap opera or a transfer might still have happened. Point is that we seldom lacked talent with Stans but I'm concerned whether Ray will ever recruit enough sufficient talent to compete at an NCAA tournament level. Guess we will all find out over the next couple of years.

Didn't Ray just have a player transfer away from this team in the middle of the season? Didn't Hood transfer? Haven't others been kicked off the team? You don't think that is drama? I will take what we had (elite players with some drama) than what we have now - boring and apathy with no elite players (Sword would be if he could shoot from the outside). Saw in today's newspaper that we had 8400 at game - we had maybe 4000 for KENTUCKY in the middle of a beautiful Saturday. And don't say it is all "lower level" people that buy tickets and don't show up. There were many empty lower level seats, but there were upper level sections with 1 or 2 people in them. And, it was 4000 because KY had 1000! This is not a joke - when I left the game and saw that our girls softball team was playing, I said to my wife that we really should have gone to that game. I don't even like softball and it was a little chilly. Again, I think we will get a little better - we do have no depth. But, we don't have a shooter coming in (my friend watched the guard coming in - 6' and skinny - yea, he will be able to shoot over KY's 6'6" guards). But ever going back to the NCAA tourney is a long shot and making a run with average players is a dream.

[HancockCountyDog]

Stans wasn't the answer. I'd rather burn through 10 coaches to finally get to the right one then to stay with the wrong one any longer. Stansbury is incapable of even making a Sweet 16. I want to see another Final Four before we all die. That's not asking for too much. I will also say I expect my AD to make better hires than the coaches he fires. Especially when he goes on his own and hires who only he wanted. This isn't Scott Stricklin University.

It just seems that we are at best 2 seasons away from being a bubble team.

That is frustrating. I loved MSU basketball. Now Im passing up free tickets against UK. Maybe that is my fault, but following a team that is out of tourney consideration before February is just too frustrating to watch.

[Dawg61]

It just seems that we are at best 2 seasons away from being a bubble team.

That is frustrating. I loved MSU basketball. Now Im passing up free tickets against UK. Maybe that is my fault, but following a team that is out of tourney consideration before February is just too frustrating to watch.

I'm right there with ya man. I'm not happy about basketball at all.

[Political Hack]

Ray may be a better hire. Recruiting seems to be the only thing holding him back right now.

[Coach34]

Josh Gray didnt come here because when Stands got fired his "love" stopped being delivered. He went to TT and averaged 10 points, 3 assists, and 3 turnovers while shooting 18% from 3. So I ask- is it Ray's fault his "love" stopped being delivered?

Hood was wanting out while Stands was here. Certain fans keep trying to bury that fact.

Blame Ray till you are blue in the face- everybody knows the real reason this program is in the shape it's in. When you have hit bottom, it takes a couple years to recover. He's had that. Next year, we will start seeing some recovering and will be a better basketball team

[HancockCountyDog]

Ray may be a better hire. Recruiting seems to be the only thing holding him back right now.

When it comes to basketball, recruiting is about 65% of the job.

You can be a great X's and O's guy, but if you are putting lineups like we have right now, it just doesn't matter. Ray seems like a great guy, but its a bottom line business. If I have to wait until the 2015-2016 season to have talent to have a bubble team, that is a problem. Im rooting for the guy, but basketball doesn't require a 4 year turnaround, not if you know how to recruit.

[defiantdog]

When it comes to basketball, recruiting is about 65% of the job.

You can be a great X's and O's guy, but if you are putting lineups like we have right now, it just doesn't matter. Ray seems like a great guy, but its a bottom line business. If I have to wait until the 2015-2016 season to have talent to have a bubble team, that is a problem. Im rooting for the guy, but basketball doesn't require a 4 year turnaround, not if you know how to recruit.

I guarantee if Ray somehow pulls off the miracle and recruits Malik Newman.... everyone will change their minds about him

[Intramural All-American]

Out of curiosity, where did the mantra come from that it only takes 2 years to build an NCAA quality team?

[Coach34]

If I have to wait until the 2015-2016 season to have talent to have a bubble team, that is a problem. Im rooting for the guy, but basketball doesn't require a 4 year turnaround, not if you know how to recruit.

I disagree when the circumstances are like ours was. It was almost like probation when you had all 5 starters leave. Then a couple of signees go elsewhere

Ray comes in late and has to scramble to bring in the leftovers that April. Hard to find a quality signee at that point- recruiter or not.
Then Ray has to boot 2 more players because they cant stop smoking weed
Then we have 2 ACL tears

Ray's 1st season was a throwaway

Now we are an improved team this year that is still undermanned- why? More players from the former regime smoking dope or not playing because they want to redshirt and then transfer to Troy to play for Cunningham.

Bottom line- Ray has taken over a 2 year rebuild and now we should start seeing some real progress the next couple of years

[Coach34]

Out of curiosity, where did the mantra come from that it only takes 2 years to build an NCAA quality team?

Especially when it took The Recruiter 4 years to build one and he took over a much better situation

[JOHNHEVESYMADE]

I disagree when the circumstances are like ours was. It was almost like probation when you had all 5 starters leave. Then a couple of signees go elsewhere

Ray comes in late and has to scramble to bring in the leftovers that April. Hard to find a quality signee at that point- recruiter or not.
Then Ray has to boot 2 more players because they cant stop smoking weed
Then we have 2 ACL tears

Ray's 1st season was a throwaway

Now we are an improved team this year that is still undermanned- why? More players from the former regime smoking dope or not playing because they want to redshirt and then transfer to Troy to play for Cunningham.

Bottom line- Ray has taken over a 2 year rebuild and now we should start seeing some real progress the next couple of years

No former state players are enrolled at Troy. Jalen is most likely going to East Carolina. Depth or not, one of rays signees transferred while he was starting. That is something that is being buried that no one talks about. We are taking too many developmental players. We need difference makers and none are on the way currently.

[Intramural All-American]

Especially when it took The Recruiter 4 years to build one and he took over a much better situation

Heck, Stansbury couldn't get to the tournament his last 3 years, one of which was top 3 talent teams in MSU history, but people are upset because he was let go. Then a lot of these same people were calling for Mullen's head midway through this football season because he hasn't gotten us to "the next level." So people call for Mullen's head but get pissed when stansbury gets fired for basically the exact same reason. Although, in reality, Mullen has improved us whereas Stansbury clearly was not improving.

Our fan base lacks logic.

[Coach34]

No former state players are enrolled at Troy. Jalen is most likely going to East Carolina.

But his plan was to redshirt and then go to Troy. Now if that changes- so be it. But you cant blame Ray for Jalen refusing to play this season.

[HancockCountyDog]

I disagree when the circumstances are like ours was. It was almost like probation when you had all 5 starters leave. Then a couple of signees go elsewhere

Ray comes in late and has to scramble to bring in the leftovers that April. Hard to find a quality signee at that point- recruiter or not.
Then Ray has to boot 2 more players because they cant stop smoking weed
Then we have 2 ACL tears

Ray's 1st season was a throwaway

Now we are an improved team this year that is still undermanned- why? More players from the former regime smoking dope or not playing because they want to redshirt and then transfer to Troy to play for Cunningham.

Bottom line- Ray has taken over a 2 year rebuild and now we should start seeing some real progress the next couple of years

When you say progress, what do you mean? A bubble team? An NIT team? .500 in the SEC? 20 wins?

Right now, I see 5-6 SEC wins in a terrible conference where there are probably 3 tourney teams. That is the bigger issue for me. This isn't the SEC in football - this is probably as bad as the SEC has been over the last decade. Its probably a 3 bid league - with 14 teams. That is atrocious. So when you can only win 5-6 games and are now playing 18 SEC games - that is a problem.

The other issue I have is that the guys carrying this team are Stans' signees. Who has Ray signed that is even a solid contributor? I can't think of one, maybe Ready, but overall Sword, Thomas, Roq, and Ware are carrying the team and they are all Stans guys.

The new recruits coming in next year are not impact players, they are solid role players, which is what are team is full of. Solid guys that can be the 3rd or 4th best player on a tourney team. A guy that is a recruiter can land guys that are top 100 recruits. Hell, the cabbie attacker has signed Saiz and Coleby - both are going to be really solid players for the bears the next 3-4 years.

If you had told me back when we fired Stans that it was going to be at least 4 years before we were a bubble team - I would have said, **** it - we can be a bubble team now;

It shouldn't be your 4th season as a basketball coach before you sign a player that is an impact freshman. Based on our commit list, it will be 2015-2016 before we have an impact freshman - and that is a hope right now, its not like we have a top 25 player in the country committed.

[Coach34]

The other issue I have is that the guys carrying this team are Stans' signees. Who has Ray signed that is even a solid contributor? I can't think of one, maybe Ready, but overall Sword, Thomas, Roq, and Ware are carrying the team and they are all Stans guys.

The new recruits coming in next year are not impact players, they are solid role players, which is what are team is full of.

If you had told me back when we fired Stans that it was going to be at least 4 years before we were a bubble team - I would have said, **** it - we can be a bubble team now.


A) Ray has one recruiting class on the floor- Who in the hell else should be the best players on the team?

B) With who Ray in bringing in next year- along with what we have- we will be a solid basketball team. Houston and Daniels will be solid additions. Ndoye will be good depth. Elijah Staley will be a solid player in the 2nd half of the season for us also.

C) Stands was fired because of team discipline and the shit show around the program- not wins/losses


These types of posts are literally the same ones made during Cohen's 1st 2 years.

[HailState39110]

I guess Jeff Lebo doesn't have a 'no smoking policy' at East Carolina if Steele is going to ECU

[HailState39110]

Our best 3 point shooter is Borchert and we are losing him next year. Who will be able to knock down a jump shot or bust a zone for us in year 3 of Rays tenure? We will continue to get zoned to death and score in the 50s until Ray bring in some shooters. it's kinda like watching Crooms teams in football. Even when we won it was ugly because our offense was so bad. As a fan its just not a very entertaining brand of basketball we are putting on the floor

[Political Hack]

When it comes to basketball, recruiting is about 65% of the job.

You can be a great X's and O's guy, but if you are putting lineups like we have right now, it just doesn't matter. Ray seems like a great guy, but its a bottom line business. If I have to wait until the 2015-2016 season to have talent to have a bubble team, that is a problem. Im rooting for the guy, but basketball doesn't require a 4 year turnaround, not if you know how to recruit.

I agree but he needs 2-3 years to get it going. He's new to Mississippi, the university, the SEC, etching... that's a lot relationships he needs form in a short amount of time. Those things will happen and hopefully he'll continually improve at managing them. By most accounts the beginning of his tenure wasn't the smoothest transition with a lot of the people he needs to be friendly with, but I think time heals all wounds and we'll get better in the immediate future.

I hate to say it, but I think his sink or swim moment could be based on his ability to pull one specific recruit who shall remain nameless. Win that battle and the program turns. If not, it could be the beginning of the end.

[thf24]

I agree but he needs 2-3 years to get it going. He's new to Mississippi, the university, the SEC, etching... that's a lot relationships he needs form in a short amount of time. Those things will happen and hopefully he'll continually improve at managing them.

This can't be stressed enough. Even in basketball, it's going to be difficult to recruit as a newcomer at your first HC job. It was always going to take two or three years, that hasn't changed.

The one thing that does bother me is the idea we were hearing soon after Ray's hire that we were going to minimize involvement with AAU. I'm not sure if that was Ray's or Stricklin's deal, or if it still is or ever was a thing, but if it is, that's got to stop or recruiting isn't going to improve no matter how much Ray builds his infrastructure and reputation.

[Dawg61]

My issue is that we don't have to be on a 3 year plan to be sniffing the bubble. We can just simply fix it before next year. Davis, Bloodman, Thomas and one other player HAVE TO GO though. Which is more important to Ray? Fielding his shitty team for 4 years or finding another job after 4 years? If he replaces those 4 players with GOOD shooters we will be in the NCAA next year! Look at Memphis's commits. Memphis is ranked right now and they are bringing 3 jucos and 1 high school player in next year. They are adding immediate help. If Ray would just do the same we won't have to find another coach 2 years from now. http://memphis.scout.com/a.z?s=350&p=9&cfg=bb&c=4&yr=2014

[mcdawg]

Our best 3 point shooter is Borchert and we are losing him next year. Who will be able to knock down a jump shot or bust a zone for us in year 3 of Rays tenure? We will continue to get zoned to death and score in the 50s until Ray bring in some shooters. it's kinda like watching Crooms teams in football. Even when we won it was ugly because our offense was so bad. As a fan its just not a very entertaining brand of basketball we are putting on the floor

This is exactly the problem. Stans is gone, and I recognize that. I think he should have been ask to leave earlier or stay a little longer (bring in his committed players and try to get Hood to stay), but that is over. I am worried that basketball is going to be set back so far, that it will not be fixable. I think Ray/staff are good coaches. Hell, we stay close with almost no depth or shooters. He has them playing defenses to emphasize our quickness and hide our lack of size. And, he has them run on offense because we can score in transition and not in a halfcourt game. But, like what is said above, it is ugly even when we win. I am telling you, it is a horrible atmosphere at the games. (The "webcam" stuff and "sponsor challenges" are worse than the game.) The additional players will make us better (an asst coach told a friend of mine that Daniels is very good), but will it be enough to get fans back? When we are not playing for anything (SEC, Tourney), I am not sure fans will come back just to see an improvement.

[maroonmania]

Stans wasn't the answer. I'd rather burn through 10 coaches to finally get to the right one then to stay with the wrong one any longer. Stansbury is incapable of even making a Sweet 16. I want to see another Final Four before we all die. That's not asking for too much. I will also say I expect my AD to make better hires than the coaches he fires. Especially when he goes on his own and hires who only he wanted. This isn't Scott Stricklin University.

I would just love to see another Sweet Sixteen in my lifetime at this point. I don't think people realize what a feat that was for us to make the 1996 Final Four. It took a very good Sweet Sixteen 1995 team with most starters returning in 96 plus adding a great one hit wonder in Dontae Jones to make that run. Only 4 of the 14 SEC teams have ever made multiple appearances in the Final Four (UK, FL, Ark, LSU) and only 6 (add GA and MSU) have ever even made a single appearance in a Final Four.

[Intramural All-American]

This is exactly the problem. Stans is gone, and I recognize that. I think he should have been ask to leave earlier or stay a little longer (bring in his committed players and try to get Hood to stay), but that is over. I am worried that basketball is going to be set back so far, that it will not be fixable. I think Ray/staff are good coaches. Hell, we stay close with almost no depth or shooters. He has them playing defenses to emphasize our quickness and hide our lack of size. And, he has them run on offense because we can score in transition and not in a halfcourt game. But, like what is said above, it is ugly even when we win. I am telling you, it is a horrible atmosphere at the games. (The "webcam" stuff and "sponsor challenges" are worse than the game.) The additional players will make us better (an asst coach told a friend of mine that Daniels is very good), but will it be enough to get fans back? When we are not playing for anything (SEC, Tourney), I am not sure fans will come back just to see an improvement.

Serious question. If some of you think it should be so easy to get back to the bubble, then how could we ever fall off the basketball map completely? Based on what y'all are saying, if Ray isn't the guy to do it, it shouldn't be that hard to find someone who can. So either it's easy and we can get back with our next coach (if Ray doesn't work out) or it's a whole hell of a lot harder to build a competitive team than y'all are making it out to be.

[chef dixon]

I wish people wouldn't bring up Josh Gray. The dude is not a program changer and he proved that at TTU. He's no more a player than IJ Ready. Anyone with D1 talent can find a JUCO squad and take all the shots. We have plenty of guys that can fill the role he would have on our team. Our problem is size and pure, spot up jump shooting. Our current team dribbles and moves the ball around better than any team I can remember in Stansbury's last 8 or so years. We just simply can't convert our chances. We'd be pretty lethal if we had the ball handling and movement we do now with players that could stroke it like Ravern.

[Coach34]

I wish people wouldn't bring up Josh Gray. The dude is not a program changer and he proved that at TTU. He's no more a player than IJ Ready. Anyone with D1 talent can find a JUCO squad and take all the shots. We have plenty of guys that can fill the role he would have on our team. Our problem is size and pure, spot up jump shooting. Our current team dribbles and moves the ball around better than any team I can remember in Stansbury's last 8 or so years. We just simply can't convert our chances. We'd be pretty lethal if we had the ball handling and movement we do now with players that could stroke it like Ravern.

good post

[tcdog70]

LSU says you are full of shit about Gray. they like Him a lot just like Stansbury did. iJ Ready is that the answer when y'all cant think of any other recruit Ray has signed. IJ ready is a pretty good role playerwho gets schooled when He plays defense. You have to have guards to win Big.Please Rick Ray go to JUCO and find two guards that can shoot and defend. Let them not be the smurf type guards that Ray loves. We should be able to sell playing time, because if you are worth a shift you are better than what we currently have.

[chef dixon]

LSU says you are full of shit about Gray. they like Him a lot just like Stansbury did. iJ Ready is that the answer when y'all cant think of any other recruit Ray has signed. IJ ready is a pretty good role playerwho gets schooled when He plays defense. You have to have guards to win Big.Please Rick Ray go to JUCO and find two guards that can shoot and defend. Let them not be the smurf type guards that Ray loves. We should be able to sell playing time, because if you are worth a shift you are better than what we currently have.

Well your boy Josh Gray is a towering 6 foot 1. I'd take his JUCO stats with a grain of salt because he shot a whopping 36% from the field and a slick 18% from beyond the arc in his first go-around at D1 basketball. I bet the other LSU players can't wait for him to get there and throw up 30 shots a game like he's used to right now. Ready is a solid, poised freshman player and a piece you need to have a solid team, nothing more, nothing less at the moment. I'm not saying he is the answer to our problems, because he's not, but I know adding a player like Josh Gray to our team sure as hell isn't either.

[Coach34]

Well your boy Josh Gray is a towering 6 foot 1. I'd take his JUCO stats with a grain of salt because he shot a whopping 36% from the field and a slick 18% from beyond the arc in his first go-around at D1 basketball. I bet the other LSU players can't wait for him to get there and throw up 30 shots a game like he's used to right now. Ready is a solid, poised freshman player and a piece you need to have a solid team, nothing more, nothing less at the moment. I'm not saying he is the answer to our problems, because he's not, but I know adding a player like Josh Gray to our team sure as hell isn't either.

To put it in perspective- Craig Sword shot better from 3 than Josh Gray did last year when they were both Freshmen.

[grinnindawg]

75% may be low.

I like the way the team plays for the most part, but they are so bad on offense for long stretches it is ridiculous.

[Dawg61]

Serious question. If some of you think it should be so easy to get back to the bubble, then how could we ever fall off the basketball map completely? Based on what y'all are saying, if Ray isn't the guy to do it, it shouldn't be that hard to find someone who can. So either it's easy and we can get back with our next coach (if Ray doesn't work out) or it's a whole hell of a lot harder to build a competitive team than y'all are making it out to be.

I think it can be difficult or slow to accomplish if you're not quick with turnover at the start. You can't get stuck or bogged down in under performing players for 3-4 year stretches. Sometimes you get lucky with the players you get at first and you look like a genius and other times you have to cycle through some till you get enough talent. If you upgrade your weakest links for a couple years you should soon have enough to get you on the bubble. Ray doesn't always have to be cutthroat with his players but I think it's MANDATORY his first 3 years. After that the roster should be full and his weakest players become Roq and Sword types instead of Cunningham and Jacoby Davis. He must raise his floor. I already said how he can do it. I'm not asking him to bring in Kentucky/Florida type talent. Just bring in 4 players better than Davis, Bloodman, Thomas and ? (Black or Ndoye maybe) with 4 players that can shoot and score. That's it. College basketball is not four year commitments anymore. It hasn't been for 10+ years now. It's one year scholarships that can be renewed. Eventually Ray can get a more secure and talented roster that it can become longer commitments for him and his players but definitely not right now. GO GET FOUR BETTER PLAYERS. Again do this and keep your job. Don't do this and well it's going to be very difficult.

[tcdog70]

6'1 is Abigail guard by Ray standards. Gray was a freshman just like Sword. So C34 you are saying Ray is coaching the Chicken down

[Coach34]

6'1 is Abigail guard by Ray standards. Gray was a freshman just like Sword. So C34 you are saying Ray is coaching the Chicken down

No, I'm saying Sword would average 35/game in juco

[Intramural All-American]

I don't think you realize that Cunningham has played out of necessity. He played last year due to Shaun smith and Kristers being kicked off and then two torn ACLs. Then this year, two more kick offs and fallou and Daniels having to redshirt. So each year that is 4 players gone that we expected before the season. I also don't understand the Cunningham hate. He has made some big plays for us. Obviously he's not SEC quality, but Ray never expected him to be anymore than a walkon who doesn't play. You have begged for Bear and Moore, but neither of them have shown anything in their time in (except bear can rebound, but he and Cunningham play different positions). Also, Davis was signed out of necessity in Rays first two months on the job.
You are also crazy to say Sword should be a floor type. Sword is very good. Thomas is an elite defender who still may develop his shot better. I just don't understand where he is supposed to get 4 better players. You act as if they grow on trees. If it were that easy, Auburn, South Carolina, Alabama, Texas A&M, Georgia, and Arkansas would all be able to do it too.
Basically, Ray hasn't had a legit season yet due to 4 lost players each season. Next year he will realistically start to be judged. I expect 9-9 at least in te SEC. If he cant do that, he will be on the hot seat in year four.

[Dawg61]

I'm not bashing Cunningham. I think he's better than Davis straight up. I'm not buying that Thomas is an elite defender either but it doesn't matter because he's a huge liability on offense. Sword has been very good until this 5 game slide. He's been struggling mightily recently though. I also realize Ray isn't playing with the full deck he thought he'd have but I'm not focusing on the ones he doesn't have I'm saying he can upgrade 4 of the ones he has right now. There's better players within 200 miles of Starkville than those four. I'd go get them for you if I could. I can't. He has to do it.

[Intramural All-American]

Elite may be a bit extreme. He is a good defender, however. He has struggled offensively, but he still has games where he does well on that end. Bloodman has also greatly improved for us. Last year he was horrible. This year he is a serviceable backup. He played well in the Kentucky game. Davis is in his first year, I'd give him a little slack. And are you seriously advocating cutting one of black/ndoye who you have never seen play a game for State? Obviously black is a little more understandable, but you think we should cut a redshirting freshman in ndoye? You are so naive to believe we can just go pickup four guys to come in and make us better than what we have. Aren't you the same guy who advocated Ray picking up players from the Sanderson last year to compete in the SEC? And you said Cunningham was better than Sword.

[Dawg61]

I ripped Ray for a couple of days after we got EMBARRASSED by 46 by UNC and slaughtered by Texas and Marquette in Maui with 6 ****ing players. I was so pissed about it I brought up the tryouts idea and bringing in football players and the point I was trying to make and failed miserably at was/is that it's totally unacceptable to play any games let alone a tournament in Maui with 6 basketball players. That was 14 months ago. How long do you plan on bringing that post up for? Are you a woman? Women bring up shit 14 months ago.

[NewTweederEndzoneDance]

I ripped Ray for a couple of days after we got EMBARRASSED by 46 by UNC and slaughtered by Texas and Marquette in Maui with 6 ****ing players. I was so pissed about it I brought up the tryouts idea and bringing in football players and the point I was trying to make and failed miserably at was/is that it's totally unacceptable to play any games let alone a tournament in Maui with 6 basketball players. That was 14 months ago. How long do you plan on bringing that post up for? Are you a woman? Women bring up shit 14 months ago.

I can't for the life of me figure out how you are not currently coaching in the NCAA, if not the NBA? I mean, after all, you have it all figured out and its a piece of cake to just find elite talent growing on trees in jucos.

**it was tough for me to type this post out through the blank stare I can't seem to shake over your proposition that we should cut a guy that you've never even seen play because you don't think he's any good.

[engie]

Just accept the rebuilding year -- don't form opinions based on actual results yet -- and let it play out. Rubber meets road in year 3 or else we start seriously considering going another direction.

The people that were analyzing the hell out of baseball for Cohen's first 2 years were largely the same ones off wanting to get rid of him/Butch. They were forming comparisons between Polk's last team and Cohen's first/second -- saying Raffo was a better hitting coach -- and there were even a few contending that McNickle was a better pitching coach. His first 2 years SUCKED. No one denies that, although people seem to ignore what the baseball rebuild actually taught them while looking at the basketball rebuild. There was points in time where it was not a "sure thing" Cohen would get it going in year 3 -- and everyone knew it as make or break time for him.

Point being -- you can't really take ANYTHING from rebuilding years where you are shorthanded. Just accept that there will be a few bright spots and alot of shitburgers -- and circle year 3 on the calendar. Very few coaches would have "fixed" our basketball program inside the first 2 years -- and those that could would never have likely put down roots here. As of today, we still don't know for sure what we have in Ray. Next year -- we're either in the postseason -- or we need to start looking around.

[Coach34]

Exactly. Next year the standards raise a little and it's time to push for a team capable of making the NIT

[TheRef]

Exactly. Next year the standards raise a little and it's time to push for a team capable of making the NIT
Do we accept CBI next year?

[Coach34]

Do we accept CBI next year?

Sure we accept...but we dont have to be happy about it

[tcdog70]

Engie, you are a great poster and I usually agree with most you Post. Butt the constant comparing Ray to Cohen I just don't get. If your defending Ray means you have to throw Cohen in the argument you don't have much. There is a huge difference in Basketball and Baseball. Two elite players can change a shitty basketball team into a good one. Not so in baseball. Ray was a nobody assistant for an average Clemson team. Cohen was an elite Coach who had already won the SEC at a typical SEC doormat team. I never had a doubt JC would take MSU back to the top. I have serious doubt about Rick Ray. Not trying to start a pissing contest, just don't get the comparison.

[HailState39110]

Just discussing the short term ,but I think Wed vs UGA will be a very very big game for us. We win and I think we can win one or two more in conference. We lose and we are going on the road to Auburn and LSU and probably looking at a 8 game losing streak. Once a team takes that many lumps it is very hard to get them to continue to play hard.Ray will have to continue to find ways to keep the locker room together and not let the wheels fall completely off

[engie]

Engie, you are a great poster and I usually agree with most you Post. Butt the constant comparing Ray to Cohen I just don't get. If your defending Ray means you have to throw Cohen in the argument you don't have much. There is a huge difference in Basketball and Baseball. Two elite players can change a shitty basketball team into a good one. Not so in baseball. Ray was a nobody assistant for an average Clemson team. Cohen was an elite Coach who had already won the SEC at a typical SEC doormat team. I never had a doubt JC would take MSU back to the top. I have serious doubt about Rick Ray. Not trying to start a pissing contest, just don't get the comparison.

The point that you don't get is that you are using hindsight to judge Cohen now and "what you thought would happen" when he was hired -- instead of putting yourself back into the timeframe of those first 2 years where it looked like FAR from a sure thing at times. You either weren't around SPS during the rebuild -- or have just blocked it all from memory. The fact that Cohen had the sterling resume going for him on the front end didn't stop people from flipping out on him during the rebuild. Not just one or two people either -- a sizable faction of the total fanbase. There were people actively campaigning to get Cohen out of here after year 2 -- that were still after Butch's ass until the start of year 4 when the pitching really got going with Stratton's emergence. Just about everyone that was active on message boards during that time "gets" the comparison even if they disagree. Given that Cohen had such a sterling resume and Ray is more of an unknown -- does it not then fit that Rick Ray should get even MORE patience than was afforded Cohen while allowing him the opportunity to prove himself?

I disagree that it only takes 2 elite players to turn a bad basketball team into a good one. If that was the case, why aren't LSU and Tennessee in the top 25 and considered tournament locks? Hell, the entire SEC is littered with 5* talents lost in the shuffle on shitty teams. One or two "elite" talents are what puts good basketball teams "over the top". It does NOT fix shit shows going through a culture change like we needed in basketball -- and furthermore, those types of prima donna players could easily further incubate the problems that led to the previous staff's demise. So, I'm FINE with Ray building our foundation on workmanlike players. Let's get a solid foundation with character guys -- then we can go chase a few stars that will be forced by their teammates to buy in to the system -- which appears to be exactly what he is attempting to do.

Either way, my OVERWHELMING point that is totally ignored by everyone with a agenda for/against Ray is that you can't judge SHIT that happens in the first 2 years. Year 3 -- he either gets it done or he doesn't. It's as simple as that. Anyone prognosticating either way based on what we know at this point is an idiot -- even if they end up being correct. The data set is incomplete.

[Coach34]

Engie, you are a great poster and I usually agree with most you Post. Butt the constant comparing Ray to Cohen I just don't get. If your defending Ray means you have to throw Cohen in the argument you don't have much. There is a huge difference in Basketball and Baseball. Two elite players can change a shitty basketball team into a good one. Not so in baseball. Ray was a nobody assistant for an average Clemson team. Cohen was an elite Coach who had already won the SEC at a typical SEC doormat team. I never had a doubt JC would take MSU back to the top. I have serious doubt about Rick Ray. Not trying to start a pissing contest, just don't get the comparison.

Engie is referencing the hundreds of posts made about Cohen and how he wasnt the guy for State. He wasnt Polk's choice and it wasnt working out. Lots of posts and posters running Cohen down for the first 2 1/2 seasons. Now suddenly- EVERYBODY that posts knew Cohen was the guy for the job.

We're not saying Ray is Cohen- but we are saying the run down programs they took over are eerily similar. Ray has one recruiting class on the floor. Next year will be his 2nd. Let's judge when he has had his 2nd and 3rd recruiting classes hit the floor before we turn on the guy. He deserves that.

[Coach34]

Didnt Kentucky sign 6-7 elite players last year and miss the NCAA Tourney?

[tcdog70]

Look , I know a lot of people thought Cohen wouldn't make it. But it wasn't Me. I wanted Him before Polk came back the second time. I also could see Croom could Coach for shit after about 5 games His first Year. I might be wrong but Ray ain't gonna make it. I hope I am wrong and We can at least get back to The Stansbury Standard of 20 wins. Ray , if He is worth a Shit, has an easier road to success because the SEC is WEAK. I don't have an agenda Like Coach 34 had in running down Stansbury. I'm just calling it like I see it. if Ray does something good , Hell, I'll give Him an attaboy.

[tcdog70]

Engie, you are on my ass for judging Ray. Ok please point out some of His qualities that make you think He can be successful. I have not seen anything other than His players play hard sometimes, But sometimes they don't. He can dance and He can holler 17 you. Don't see where that is going to help Us.

[tcdog70]

I said two elite plays could change a shitty team into a good team. There are exception to every rule. The Rebs picked one elite Player and they won the SEC tourney and got into the big dance.

[Coach34]

I said two elite plays could change a shitty team into a good team. There are exception to every rule. The Rebs picked one elite Player and they won the SEC tourney and got into the big dance.

The Rebs got into the Dance because of Holloway, Buckner, Summers, plus Henderson...plus White coming off the bench who is a solid player

[engie]

Look , I know a lot of people thought Cohen wouldn't make it. But it wasn't Me. I wanted Him before Polk came back the second time. I also could see Croom could Coach for shit after about 5 games His first Year. I might be wrong but Ray ain't gonna make it. I hope I am wrong and We can at least get back to The Stansbury Standard of 20 wins. Ray , if He is worth a Shit, has an easier road to success because the SEC is WEAK. I don't have an agenda Like Coach 34 had in running down Stansbury. I'm just calling it like I see it. if Ray does something good , Hell, I'll give Him an attaboy.

Then the Cohen post isn't about you personally -- but the point still stands -- and the fact that it bothers you so badly leaves cause for pause -- to say the least.

You are jumping the gun in judging Ray either way -- that's my whole point.

[engie]

Engie, you are on my ass for judging Ray. Ok please point out some of His qualities that make you think He can be successful. I have not seen anything other than His players play hard sometimes, But sometimes they don't. He can dance and He can holler 17 you. Don't see where that is going to help Us.

He inherited a total shitstorm. In year 1, people thought he would win 6 or 7, and he won 10. In year two, people thought he would win 13-14, and he's already basically surpassed those expectations. He's ahead of where people thought he would be. And that's beside the fact that we were down AT LEAST 5-6 scholarship players BOTH of these years.

Let's flip it -- what has Ray done to prove to you that he can't be competitive and win in the SEC with 13 healthy scholarship players?

[tcdog70]

He inherited a total shitstorm. In year 1, people thought he would win 6 or 7, and he won 10. In year two, people thought he would win 13-14, and he's already basically surpassed those expectations. He's ahead of where people thought he would be. And that's beside the fact that we were down AT LEAST 5-6 scholarship players BOTH of these years.

Let's flip it -- what has Ray done to prove to you that he can't be competitive and win in the SEC with 13 healthy scholarship players?

Ok, I'll buy that..The main thing to Me is His failure to recruit. He hasn't signed but 1 player that looks like He can play in the SEC --Ready. Although Ready looks to be an average SEC player. He is fragile, and a Smurf. he can't guard bigger SEC guards and His offense isn't good enough to cover up His defensive liability. I mean out of the Guys he has signed that haven't played who is gonna be a real SEC quality player? Daniel? Hope So, maybe the Kid Houston? If Daniel can't come in and at least take Borcherts place we haven't gained anything. If 2 elite players(in your and C34's opinion) can't come in and take a shitty team to a good team then we are in big trouble because up till now Ray hasn't signed 1 elite player. What about Pollard? I'm hearing Ray ain't interested. Thanks for a mature discussion, I would hope you are right and I am wrong. I just want MSU back to at least top 5 SEC programs.

[engie]

My issue is with pre-eminently defining a ceiling based on basketball recruiting rankings. Think these guys aren't pros at football? Well, the same ones are assigning the rankings in basketball. We've seen one true Ray recruit on the floor, Ready, who IMO is oozing potential. I've heard a bunch of glowing reports from scrimmages of Ndoye really growing as a scorer as well. So, time(next year) will tell...

We owe it to Ray to let him to get a full roster with a few of his own classes in, and then allow him to define that ceiling for himself without us doing it for him before he's been given a fair shake. You can win big in basketball without elite recruiting -- and quite a few teams prove that every year in March. That's not to say he will or he won't -- but it's no time to be throwing in the towel...

Coach thinks he needs 4 years -- I think he better be in the postseason in year 3 before going dancing in year 4 or else I'm going to be on the fence at best about him. Next year, it's Stansbury expectations 100% from me, and Ray's free pass is over.

[Dawg61]

I can't for the life of me figure out how you are not currently coaching in the NCAA, if not the NBA? I mean, after all, you have it all figured out and its a piece of cake to just find elite talent growing on trees in jucos.

**it was tough for me to type this post out through the blank stare I can't seem to shake over your proposition that we should cut a guy that you've never even seen play because you don't think he's any good.

The fourth player I put a ? behind their names. Can you not figure out what that means yourself? And I'll bet you all my VCash Devonta Pollard is better than Ndoye and/or Black.

[Coach34]

Pollard sure didnt show much at Bama his Freshman year- he wasnt Roq Johnson good

[Dawg61]

Pollard sure didnt show much at Bama his Freshman year- he wasnt Roq Johnson good

Don't like Pollard, fine how bout the guy in Bama Juco Jay Watkins avg 26 & 10? I could post all day long players that are most likely better than our four. Upgrades folks. We need SHOOTERS, scores and upgrades.

[Coach34]

I agree on shooters. I would love a 6'4 G that is a zone-busting mf'er. I'm sure Ray would too

[tcdog70]

We need a Ray White clone with a Chucky Evans as PG

[tcdog70]

Don't like Pollard, fine how bout the guy in Bama Juco Jay Watkins avg 26 & 10? I could post all day long players that are most likely better than our four. Upgrades folks. We need SHOOTERS, scores and upgrades.

shit-Wiley Peck and Timmy Bowers didn't show much as freshmen.

[engie]

shit-Wiley Peck and Timmy Bowers didn't show much as freshmen.

That should speak even more about not harsly judging Ready yet, should it not? And we certainly can't judge the 2 extenuating circumstance RS guys...

[NewTweederEndzoneDance]

The fourth player I put a ? behind their names. Can you not figure out what that means yourself? And I'll bet you all my VCash Devonta Pollard is better than Ndoye and/or Black.

Yes, the question mark means you are not sure who the 4th should be. But you put 2 players who are currently red-shirting and whom you have never seen play in parentheses right behind your question mark, so my point still stands.

[NewTweederEndzoneDance]

That should speak even more about not harsly judging Ready yet, should it not? And we certainly can't judge the 2 extenuating circumstance RS guys...

In my opinion, unless you are recruiting NBA talent, you have to give players a chance to adapt and develop. Not to mention Ready has had trouble staying healthy this year which can't help his early development.

[Dawg61]

In my opinion, unless you are recruiting NBA talent, you have to give players a chance to adapt and develop. Not to mention Ready has had trouble staying healthy this year which can't help his early development.

That's great. Guess Ray will be looking for a new job under your plan. I think I might be the only one trying to save his job.

[thf24]

That's great. Guess Ray will be looking for a new job under your plan. I think I might be the only one trying to save his job.

I've learned it's useless to try to argue against your various unrealistic, unfounded, obsessive assumptions and ideas, so I'll just say that I'm extremely thankful that you aren't our basketball coach.

[drunkernhelldawg]

How can't it get any worse when we aren't even the worst team in our conference? Yeah, we all know, we aren't in a great spot in basketball right now and it's hard to see right now how exactly we're going to get back to where we're used to being. But this histrionic, doomsday attitude some of you have and insist on maintaining isn't helping at all, and makes you look pretty ridiculous to those of us looking at the situation objectively and rationally.

We're used to being third or fourth best in the SEC, at worst. We were The Basketball School in the State of Mississippi. O well.

To me, there is no difference between 8th and 14th place. I think it's ridiculous to think that 13th place is any better than 14th. Maybe for you, but not for me. I just can't find a way to look at totally sucking "rationally".

[drunkernhelldawg]

I agree but he needs 2-3 years to get it going. He's new to Mississippi, the university, the SEC, etching... that's a lot relationships he needs form in a short amount of time. Those things will happen and hopefully he'll continually improve at managing them. By most accounts the beginning of his tenure wasn't the smoothest transition with a lot of the people he needs to be friendly with, but I think time heals all wounds and we'll get better in the immediate future.

I hate to say it, but I think his sink or swim moment could be based on his ability to pull one specific recruit who shall remain nameless. Win that battle and the program turns. If not, it could be the beginning of the end.

That's a super-long shot. First get the player. Then have the player perform according to plan. That's gone wrong a lot more often than it's gone right.

I'm just amazed that "fans" continue to defend the suicide bombing of our basketball program. Even if getting rid of Stans was the correct decision, which is not the certainty that it once was, the way it was handled by our AD and our fanbase are the biggest reasons that we barely even have a basketball program anymore.

I'd just shut up rather than defend the current state of affairs. Talk about a dumpster fire.

And there are different opinions as to whose fault that is. I'm pretty sure the guy in your mirror never had an incorrect thought.

[tcdog70]

That should speak even more about not harsly judging Ready yet, should it not? And we certainly can't judge the 2 extenuating circumstance RS guys...

Agree, he is a freshman. I did say he is Ray's best recruit. but I was pointing out that He has defensive shortcomings to work on. It is hard for short guards to defend in the SEC. He might be our best shooter, wish we would run some plays for Him to shoot. But he is fragile

[Dawg61]

I've learned it's useless to try to argue against your various unrealistic, unfounded, obsessive assumptions and ideas, so I'll just say that I'm extremely thankful that you aren't our basketball coach.

All is well with our basketball program. I'm sure it'll fix itself. Just wait till next year when we get closer to a full roster right? By then I'm sure Thomas, Davis, Bloodman, Sword and the rest will have learned how to shoot.

[thf24]

We're used to being third or fourth best in the SEC, at worst. We were The Basketball School in the State of Mississippi. O well.

To me, there is no difference between 8th and 14th place. I think it's ridiculous to think that 13th place is any better than 14th. Maybe for you, but not for me. I just can't find a way to look at totally sucking "rationally".

3rd or 4th at worst? Here's our conference standing over the ten seasons preceding the 2012 purge:

2011-12: 6
2010-11: 6
2009-10: 5
2008-09: 6
2007-08: 2
2006-07: 6
2005-06: 9
2004-05: 5
2003-04: 1
2002-03: 4
2001-02: 2

Average of 5th place, with a mode of 6th. We were a middle-of-the-road conference team over that time period, only finishing fourth or better, as you claim was our expected norm, four out of ten times. Yes, we're used to being a pretty good basketball team and the present is definitely a significant low, but we're not an elite, prestigious program that should be able to pull itself back together overnight as some of you seem to think. It was going to take anyone barring a Calipari- or Krzyzewski-caliber hire three or four years to put us back into the mid to upper part of the conference. Just give it some time. At the end of next season, if we still can't score and have a ragged roster, then you can say you were right and that we made the wrong move. But at this point, it's just irrational all around to make those claims.

Edit: excuse me, four out of ten times finishing fourth or better.

[Dawg61]

What's irrational is expecting Ray to fill 13 scholarships and develop any sort of functional shooting amongst his players. He needs help. Lots of it.

[Coach34]

We're used to being third or fourth best in the SEC, at worst. We were The Basketball School in the State of Mississippi.

I see this has been addressed- thanks

[Coach34]

3rd or 4th at worst? Here's our conference standing over the ten seasons preceding the 2012 purge:

2011-12: 6
2010-11: 6
2009-10: 5
2008-09: 6
2007-08: 2
2006-07: 6
2005-06: 9
2004-05: 5
2003-04: 1
2002-03: 4
2001-02: 2

Average of 5th place, with a mode of 6th. We were a middle-of-the-road conference team over that time period, only finishing fourth or better, as you claim was our expected norm, four out of ten times. Yes, we're used to being a pretty good basketball team and the present is definitely a significant low, but we're not an elite, prestigious program that should be able to pull itself back together overnight as some of you seem to think. It was going to take anyone barring a Calipari- or Krzyzewski-caliber hire three or four years to put us back into the mid to upper part of the conference. Just give it some time. At the end of next season, if we still can't score and have a ragged roster, then you can say you were right and that we made the wrong move. But at this point, it's just irrational all around to make those claims.

Edit: excuse me, four out of ten times finishing fourth or better.

In addition to your fine work there- I'll take a 2nd chance to remind people that Calipari signed 6-7 Elite players for 2013, and they finished with a 1st round NIT loss. They went 12-6 in the SEC and won 21 games.

College basketball has changed alot in the last 5 years, it's not like it used to be. Mid Major have gained alot of ground.

[HailState39110]

I think he was referring to the stat where we had the 4th most conference wins COMBINED in a 10 year period behind UK, Fla and Tenn . Not where we finished seperately each year. Two different stats .

[engie]

All is well with our basketball program. I'm sure it'll fix itself. Just wait till next year when we get closer to a full roster right? By then I'm sure Thomas, Davis, Bloodman, Sword and the rest will have learned how to shoot.

Why do you persist on going full f'n retard in every single basketball thread? It's a God-forsakenly dumb idea to assume anyone will improve. After all, you want to pull a guy on pace to be a 37% 3 point shooter's scholarship next year.

2013:
Player GP MIN PPG RPG APG SPG BPG TPG FG% FT% 3P%
Craig Sword 23 28.3 13.2 3.6 2.6 2.0 0.5 3.0 .484 .643 .222
Gavin Ware 23 25.0 10.6 7.7 0.3 0.9 0.3 1.4 .595 .636 .000
Colin Borchert 23 28.1 10.0 4.6 1.4 0.9 1.1 2.0 .409 .778 .314
Roquez Johnson 23 23.3 9.0 4.8 0.7 0.5 0.0 1.6 .437 .575 .000
Fred Thomas 22 30.0 8.4 3.0 1.6 1.0 0.9 1.5 .341 .644 .299
I.J. Ready 16 23.6 6.4 1.6 3.1 1.1 0.0 1.6 .426 1.000 .438
Bloodman 23 23.8 5.7 2.0 2.3 1.0 0.0 1.3 .532 .705 .357
Andre Applewhite 12 17.8 5.5 3.9 1.3 0.8 0.1 1.7 .415 .674 .333
Jacoby Davis 19 10.7 2.2 0.9 0.7 0.3 0.0 0.4 .298 .667 .314
Cunningham 23 8.3 1.8 0.4 0.3 0.3 0.0 0.4 .394 .900 .316
Tevin Moore 9 3.4 1.1 0.2 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.2 .571 .200 .500
Totals 23 -- 68 33 13 8 3 14 .446 .656 .312

2012:
Player GP MIN PPG RPG APG SPG BPG TPG FG% FT% 3P%
Craig Sword 32 26.7 10.5 2.9 2.3 1.7 0.4 4.0 .405 .554 .194
Jalen Steele 18 26.6 10.1 2.9 1.1 0.8 0.1 1.8 .339 .923 .329
Fred Thomas 32 28.7 9.7 3.5 1.3 1.8 0.8 1.5 .328 .795 .238
Colin Borchert 29 27.0 9.0 5.0 1.3 1.1 1.2 2.3 .413 .659 .337
Roquez Johnson 28 26.1 8.8 4.5 0.4 0.8 0.5 2.5 .425 .596 .278
Gavin Ware 32 25.8 8.4 6.4 0.3 0.5 0.8 1.3 .542 .562 .000
Wendell Lewis 8 21.0 8.1 4.9 0.8 0.4 0.4 1.5 .568 .938 .000
Bloodman 32 29.1 6.1 3.3 2.3 1.2 0.0 2.8 .352 .726 .279
Cunningham 32 20.7 2.4 2.4 1.3 0.7 0.1 1.0 .368 .615 .413
Baxter Price 21 4.8 0.0 0.2 0.1 0.0 0.0 0.3 .000 .000 .000
Totals 32 -- 61 33 10 8 4 17 .401 .657 .284

We are better in basically every f'ing facet right now than we were last year. On our current improvement schedule, we will shoot 34% from 3 next year -- and 49.1% overall -- score 75 -- 16 assists per game -- get down to 11 Turnovers.

In 14 years, Stansbury put together a GRAND TOTAL of two teams with a higher scoring average than we will have next year if we simply improve by the same margin we did this year -- and he NEVER had a better overall FG% team.

But the sky is falling -- and there's NO WAY we can go anywhere with these players. Time to SCRAP it and start over** Because YOU don't SEE the improvement**

[Dawg61]

Whose going to shoot .37% from 3 next year? Fred Thomas? You must be joking right. Because he went from putrid .24% to an ugly .30% he's going to magically shoot .37% next year? Engie I like you and you have many fantastic posts but COME ON MAN. Fred Thomas is more likely to grow 6 inches and become a 7footer than he is to shoot .37% from 3.

[Coach34]

I'm pretty sure he is talking about Bloodman

But I will add that Rayyvern Johnson improved his 3pt% by 10% from Fr to Sr year. I wont be surprised to see FTF hitting 34-35% next year with a complete team

[engie]

Whose going to shoot .37% from 3 next year? Fred Thomas? You must be joking right. Because he went from putrid .24% to an ugly .30% he's going to magically shoot .37% next year? Engie I like you and you have many fantastic posts but COME ON MAN. Fred Thomas is more likely to grow 6 inches and become a 7footer than he is to shoot .37% from 3.

No -- I don't think he's going to hit only one of every 300 shots**

Yeah -- I know -- you already told us how we aren't going to get any better and haven't improved. And when I show you the numbers, you roll into an argument that THESE PLAYERS can't improve any more -- although I've already shown you that they have. Tremendously so. But you are stuck applying Stansbury player development to Ray and refusing to "believe".

Thomas has shot 35% from 3 over our SEC losing streak in the past 5. 35.5% from 3 since the beginning of January(11 games). Sky is falling and there is no way he ever learns to really shoot it though. NO CHANCE he can improve another couple of percent on this number next year(which is alot closer to "his" reality -- now that he's starting to find a little confidence). Pull his scholly**

I feel like you are watching basketball from an entirely different planet than I am at this point.

[Coach34]

He's really gonna freak when we have a full team + Staley next year and Bear never sees the floor

[mcdawg]

I'm pretty sure he is talking about Bloodman

But I will add that Rayyvern Johnson improved his 3pt% by 10% from Fr to Sr year. I wont be surprised to see FTF hitting 34-35% next year with a complete team

But Engie insists that nobody improved under Stans, so how could he improve by 10%? Engie, please get off the Stans stuff and just post your info. I know a lot of people are tired of it. I do think Fred will improve, but I don't know if I like him shooting so much from the corner. In the games that I have attended, a lot of his shots aren't even close. He seems to shoot better from other spots closer to the top of the key.

[engie]

But Engie insists that nobody improved under Stans, so how could he improve by 10%?
Where did I say "no one improved under Stans?" That's right -- I didn't. You were just looking for something to wad your panties up about. Fact -- we didn't see widespread, consistent improvement from player to player across the entire team under Stans that we've seen from year 1 to year 2 under Ray. Sorry that it hurts your feelings when I tell you that.


Engie, please get off the Stans stuff and just post your info. I know a lot of people are tired of it.
I'll be "off" Stans when the stench he left the program with is gone. It isn't even close yet. But then again -- you probably think it is Ray's fault that Steele and Lewis are gone -- leaving us both without the SHOOTER we desperately needed -- and the 2nd body at the 5 that COULD have made this a borderline NIT team. Had nothing at all to do with the drug habits and me-first attitude of the players that sank the last coach** Hence how this predicament is STILL his fault in a bunch of ways.

Next year, it's 100% on Ray. Until then...

[Dawg61]

You're skewing the numbers. Fred Thomas has shot 269 threes and made 70 of them. That's 26%. That means STOP SHOOTING THE ****ING BALL. He's terrible Engie. Good luck to him at Jackson State. He has no business playing SEC basketball nor does Davis and Bloodman. We will be hiring a new coach in 2 more years if y'all keep up this continued love affair with the current players we have. I'm not saying drop all of them. Just 4 of them. I don't have the patience to be some shit basketball team for 2 more seasons. This can be fixed before next season. That's all I see as the option. Not some long drawn out process where we pat Fred Thomas on the back during senior night because he got us to 7 wins in SEC play his last year and he doubled the all-time 3point attempts record for MSU. We've been ****ed over by hundreds and hundreds of players before Fred Thomas so what makes him so special for MSU to suddenly become the Mother Teresa of basketball that's only concerns are to be fair to the players (as long as Ray likes them) and stick with them no matter how bad they are? Tevin Moore is a better basketball player than Jacoby Davis and Bear Wilson needs more minutes as well. Ray doesn't like those two for some reason though. Y'all are out your ****ing skulls if you're trying to turn basketball into 4 year commitments. It's one year and renews. And the biggest problem with that plan is Ray CAN'T DEVELOP BETTER PLAYERS FOR SHIT. Transfers and jucos for the MSU4 for 2015 please. Oh and Tweeder you can just pick a 4th guy. I don't give a shit which one it is as long as the new guy can shoot.

[thf24]

You're skewing the numbers. Fred Thomas has shot 269 threes and made 70 of them. That's 26%. That means STOP SHOOTING THE ****ING BALL. He's terrible Engie. Good luck to him at Jackson State. He has no business playing SEC basketball nor does Davis and Bloodman. We will be hiring a new coach in 2 more years if y'all keep up this continued love affair with the current players we have. I'm not saying drop all of them. Just 4 of them. I don't have the patience to be some shit basketball team for 2 more seasons. This can be fixed before next season. That's all I see as the option. Not some long drawn out process where we pat Fred Thomas on the back during senior night because he got us to 7 wins in SEC play his last year and he doubled the all-time 3point attempts record for MSU. We've been ****ed over by hundreds and hundreds of players before Fred Thomas so what makes him so special for MSU to suddenly become the Mother Teresa of basketball that's only concerns are to be fair to the players (as long as Ray likes them) and stick with them no matter how bad they are? Tevin Moore is a better basketball player than Jacoby Davis and Bear Wilson needs more minutes as well. Ray doesn't like those two for some reason though. Y'all are out your ****ing skulls if you're trying to turn basketball into 4 year commitments. It's one year and renews. And the biggest problem with that plan is Ray CAN'T DEVELOP BETTER PLAYERS FOR SHIT. Transfers and jucos for the MSU4 for 2015 please. Oh and Tweeder you can just pick a 4th guy. I don't give a shit which one it is as long as the new guy can shoot.

So numbers that clearly show Thomas has improved since the beginning of conference play are "skewed?"

Has it ever occurred to you that if all these claims and assumptions you make, from unsigned quality scorers being readily available in the region to Ray not playing a 6'5" post player who's barely had any time to learn the schemes because he "doesn't like" him, were as obvious as you seem to believe, then more people would be agreeing with you?

[chef dixon]

To think bringing in a crew of JUCO players would be any more effective than our current team is just flat-out laughable.

[engie]

You're skewing the numbers. Fred Thomas has shot 269 threes and made 70 of them. That's 26%. That means STOP SHOOTING THE ****ING BALL. He's terrible Engie. Good luck to him at Jackson State. He has no business playing SEC basketball nor does Davis and Bloodman. We will be hiring a new coach in 2 more years if y'all keep up this continued love affair with the current players we have. I'm not saying drop all of them. Just 4 of them. I don't have the patience to be some shit basketball team for 2 more seasons. This can be fixed before next season. That's all I see as the option. Not some long drawn out process where we pat Fred Thomas on the back during senior night because he got us to 7 wins in SEC play his last year and he doubled the all-time 3point attempts record for MSU. We've been ****ed over by hundreds and hundreds of players before Fred Thomas so what makes him so special for MSU to suddenly become the Mother Teresa of basketball that's only concerns are to be fair to the players (as long as Ray likes them) and stick with them no matter how bad they are? Tevin Moore is a better basketball player than Jacoby Davis and Bear Wilson needs more minutes as well. Ray doesn't like those two for some reason though. Y'all are out your ****ing skulls if you're trying to turn basketball into 4 year commitments. It's one year and renews. And the biggest problem with that plan is Ray CAN'T DEVELOP BETTER PLAYERS FOR SHIT. Transfers and jucos for the MSU4 for 2015 please. Oh and Tweeder you can just pick a 4th guy. I don't give a shit which one it is as long as the new guy can shoot.

I'm "skewing" because I'm showing improvement over time? LOL OK. 35.5% over the last month and a half says YOU ARE FULL OF SHIT.
"RAY CAN'T DEVELOP BETTER PLAYERS FOR SHIT?" Congrats on skipping 100% of the stats I provided you showing marked improvement across the board in order to continue blabbering out of your ass. At this point, it's totally impossible to take anything you say about basketball seriously.

You are working hard to become the worst basketball poster on here -- and this is your worst post yet. In fact, this may be the worst basketball post I've seen this year. Congrats on that.

[tcdog70]

To think bringing in a crew of JUCO players would be any more effective than our current team is just flat-out laughable.

USM is 21-3 with half their players JuCo.. Donnie Tyndell wouldn't take four years.

[Dawg61]

I'm "skewing" because I'm showing improvement over time? LOL OK. 35.5% over the last month and a half says YOU ARE FULL OF SHIT.
"RAY CAN'T DEVELOP BETTER PLAYERS FOR SHIT?" Congrats on skipping 100% of the stats I provided you showing marked improvement across the board in order to continue blabbering out of your ass. At this point, it's totally impossible to take anything you say about basketball seriously.

You are working hard to become the worst basketball poster on here -- and this is your worst post yet. In fact, this may be the worst basketball post I've seen this year. Congrats on that.

Engie Fred Thomas is horrible. You wanting him to keep chucking threes tells me all I need to know about your basketball IQ. Stick to baseball and jerking off to stats bud. He'd blow at East Mississippi.

[Brad Stevens]

Long time reader, first time poster. I post on sixpack from time to time. Engie I'm thankful you are seeing through Dawg61's false sense of basketball IQ. I have held my tongue (on both sites) all season, but I can't anymore. When you read "Tevin Moore is a better basketball player than Davis..." -- all I can do is shake my head in disgust at his ignorance. Immaturity and lack of experience does not equal lack of talent. Granted, Dawg61 is getting this site hits by his idiotic comments, so there's that.

[Dawg61]

Long time reader, first time poster. I post on sixpack from time to time. Engie I'm thankful you are seeing through Dawg61's false sense of basketball IQ. I have held my tongue (on both sites) all season, but I can't anymore. When you read "Tevin Moore is a better basketball player than Davis..." -- all I can do is shake my head in disgust at his ignorance. Immaturity and lack of experience does not equal lack of talent. Granted, Dawg61 is getting this site hits by his idiotic comments, so there's that.

Oh hey dickhead. Welcome to the board.

[Brad Stevens]

Thanks for the welcome. Name-calling may improve your self esteem, but it does not improve your basketball intelligence. But surely, you have figured that out by now.

[engie]

Engie Fred Thomas is horrible. You wanting him to keep chucking threes tells me all I need to know about your basketball IQ. Stick to baseball and jerking off to stats bud. He'd blow at East Mississippi.

35.5%. Cry about it.

Commenting on basketball IQ is totally hilarious coming from you of all people at this point. You are so smart that NO ONE agrees with you. Just a regular basketball renaissance man.

[Intramural All-American]

You're skewing the numbers. Fred Thomas has shot 269 threes and made 70 of them. That's 26%. That means STOP SHOOTING THE ****ING BALL. He's terrible Engie. Good luck to him at Jackson State. He has no business playing SEC basketball nor does Davis and Bloodman. We will be hiring a new coach in 2 more years if y'all keep up this continued love affair with the current players we have. I'm not saying drop all of them. Just 4 of them. I don't have the patience to be some shit basketball team for 2 more seasons. This can be fixed before next season. That's all I see as the option. Not some long drawn out process where we pat Fred Thomas on the back during senior night because he got us to 7 wins in SEC play his last year and he doubled the all-time 3point attempts record for MSU. We've been ****ed over by hundreds and hundreds of players before Fred Thomas so what makes him so special for MSU to suddenly become the Mother Teresa of basketball that's only concerns are to be fair to the players (as long as Ray likes them) and stick with them no matter how bad they are? Tevin Moore is a better basketball player than Jacoby Davis and Bear Wilson needs more minutes as well. Ray doesn't like those two for some reason though. Y'all are out your ****ing skulls if you're trying to turn basketball into 4 year commitments. It's one year and renews. And the biggest problem with that plan is Ray CAN'T DEVELOP BETTER PLAYERS FOR SHIT. Transfers and jucos for the MSU4 for 2015 please. Oh and Tweeder you can just pick a 4th guy. I don't give a shit which one it is as long as the new guy can shoot.

It's comments like this that make me more and more confident that you are in fact mentally challenged.

[Brad Stevens]

It's comments like this that make me more and more confident that you are in fact mentally challenged.

Either that, or he is a 14 year old boy who has played way too much Playstation. "Just drop these 4 players and go sign these 4 players!!! They score lots of pointsssss!!" For those who truly don't know much about basketball, let me teach you something simple: never listen to Dawg61 about anything basketball related.

[Dawg61]

Thanks for the welcome. Name-calling may improve your self esteem, but it does not improve your basketball intelligence. But surely, you have figured that out by now.

Ok genius you're right Jacoby Davis is way better than Moore and he's proven it in the 200 minutes he's gotten compared to Moore's 30 minutes.

[bully99]

Brand Stevens if you were coaching, I would feel much better about our program.

[Brad Stevens]

Ok genius you're right Jacoby Davis is way better than Moore and he's proven it in the 200 minutes he's gotten compared to Moore's 30 minutes.

Jacoby was offered by South Carolina, USC, Seton Hall, Houston, Hofstra, among others.

The best I can tell, Moore did not have one division one offer.

Now, I am not comparing Davis to the best point guards in the country. I just hope you realize that YOU are the one attempting to prove you're a genius against multiple high-level division one coaches and programs. Jacoby is fresh back from an ACL repair playing as a freshman, and many times out of position. While his play needs improvement, it doesn't take a genius to see he has tools that someone like Tevin Moore will never have. It really is a shame I even have to explain that. You're way too quick to turn your back on players and our program. Learn patience, man. This team is growing and gaining valuable experience. We will be okay in a year or two. Chill.

[Coach34]

This is John Cohen all over again

Average fan logic is that there is no way we can be getting better because they see us lose. They are unable to understand how much youth kills a team.

[tcdog70]

Jacoby was offered by South Carolina, USC, Seton Hall, Houston, Hofstra, among others.

The best I can tell, Moore did not have one division one offer.

Now, I am not comparing Davis to the best point guards in the country. I just hope you realize that YOU are the one attempting to prove you're a genius against multiple high-level division one coaches and programs. Jacoby is fresh back from an ACL repair playing as a freshman, and many times out of position. While his play needs improvement, it doesn't take a genius to see he has tools that someone like Tevin Moore will never have. It really is a shame I even have to explain that. You're way too quick to turn your back on players and our program. Learn patience, man. This team is growing and gaining valuable experience. We will be okay in a year or two. Chill.


Come on Brad, you pumping up Davis doesn't give you much early cred. I don't care who offered Davis, I'll bet they are glad they don't have him. He should have shoved off with Applewhite. I'll bet you wanted to give Croom another year..

[Brad Stevens]

Come on Brad, you pumping up Davis doesn't give you much early cred. I don't care who offered Davis, I'll bet they are glad they don't have him. He should have shoved off with Applewhite. I'll bet you wanted to give Croom another year..

Context is king, my friend. As I said, I am not comparing Davis to other point guard recruits in the country. I am comparing him to Moore which is what Dawg61 freely did. I agree that Ray hasn't brought in great talent, but any former point guard can see Jacoby has a good skill set. He just needs experience and to learn the pace of the college game. Decision-making will catch up with those things. He will never be all SEC, but my argument was that his contribution to MSU will be much higher than Moore's.

[Coach34]

Oh, and Clausell will never be an solid SEC left tackle because he sucked as a Freshman

[Coach34]

and Dakota wont ever take Tyler Russell's job

[Coach34]

and Girodo is not an SEC pitcher

[Coach34]

and Kaleb Eulls is not an SEC DT

[engie]

Cut Wes Rea and Hunter Renfroe!!1!1 They SUCK and can't come within 2 feet of a curve ball!!1!1

[Dawg61]

We are going to suck with Moore or with Davis and with Flat Shot or Bear so what's the difference. Atleast give the players some rest and let us get a look at different lineups. We have 11 shitty basketball players not eight. It seems like obvious favoritism to me to let Davis get 200 minutes and Moore 30. And I don't have patience for 4 year rebuilds in a sport that you can improve drastically year to year based on recruiting. If Ray is on the four year slow improvement plan he's also going to be sending out resumes after four years. I'd like him to succeed and I don't see that happening unless he gets cutthroat with the back end of his bench.

[Dawg61]

This is John Cohen all over again

Average fan logic is that there is no way we can be getting better because they see us lose. They are unable to understand how much youth kills a team.

Basketball and baseball are two completely different animals. Baseball you can't go pro till after your junior year and basketball is FILLED with transfers and one and done players. We are an SEC University and the STATE's University. We are the biggest University in MS. Rick Ray should have no problem bringing in quality highly skilled basketball players. He has an entire World to find players from. I refuse to be on some grandpa plan of watching the molasses of MSU basketball slowwwwwly improve. I am damn proud of our basketball tradition and I won't allow Scott Stricklin to shit all over that with his and only his vision of who MSU should have at the helm.

I will continue to keep high standards and pressure attached to being the HC of MSU in basketball. I feel it is the only way to ensure we won't allow our basketball program to sink into the suck abyss that is SEC basketball these days. We will stand on the same floor as Kentucky and Florida and we will look down at the rest of the sucky SEC. You can join me or you can sit back and enjoy molasses.

Lastly I didn't seek out Rick Ray to be our head coach. Ray was/is the one with the balls to tell Stricklin "I got this man". Ray promised he knew what he was doing and he had all the confidence in the world he was the right man for the job. He had no doubts he could replace the all-time winningest basketball coach in MSU history. Well I'm holding him to what he promised. If he didn't want the pressure or heat he shouldn't of sold himself as better than Rick Stansbury. I wanted Stansbury gone and I expected an improvement over him. Ray said he was. Stricklin bought it. Now prove it or let's try the hiring of the next basketball coach all over again. This time without Scott Stricklin touching it.

[JohnnyQuid]

This is my first post so I hope no hard feelings. I was a genespage reader for 12 yrs+ and actually came by this site from a post that was bashing it. All that being said:

I loved rick stansbury, he was always GREAT to me and my folks. I was a kid in middle school and he introduced me personally to jonathan bender after a game one night when he was visiting (this to me was kin to meeting an NBA superstar, obviously.). I love MSU basketballl and for about 10 yrs it was the best athletic product we had to put on the floor. There's many years between sub par football and middle of the run baseball that the stans era basketball held the shit together.

I dont blame rick ray for what he's dealing with now. Nor do i think it's Stans fault. Do i think we would have kept hood if stans was here? yes. just look at his track record, ppl say alot of bullshit after the fact. I'm not gonna play the "if if if" game, what ray has left is what he has.

In the hire as a whole - I sincerely doubt rick ray is the best basketball coach a SEC university with a history of success in basketball can hire! I stil believe there's an undisclosed story behind all of this. Maybe one day we'll all hear it.

Is this team improving? Sure, but fractionally at best. This is the worst the SEC has been in 15 yrs +, can you imagine if we were actually ina league that played the game? Put us in the ACC and see how competitive we are. Im just being realistic. Staying within 10 points of SEC teams is great until you realize they're 100+ on the RPI.

I could give a **** about the player by player improvement. Sword CANT ****ING SCORE unless he drives, or gets fouled. There's a reason why he cant penetrate anymore, and his freethrows are suspect at best anyway. Teams know, if he doesnt drive or get fouled, HE DOESNT ****ING SCORE. Not a hard defensive gameplane.

I hate the rick ray hire, and i put it on strick. I dont blame rick ray, and i wish him the best of luck. But its hard when he's set him self up with the hand he has. If he makes NIT next year, IN A WEAK AS **** SEC, miracle. my guess. ina weak SEC, we win less than 8 sec games again and miss the NIT. I myself, want a real coaching search for our mens bbball coach. A bench assistant just seems like .... needy.

[Brad Stevens]

We are going to suck with Moore or with Davis and with Flat Shot or Bear so what's the difference. Atleast give the players some rest and let us get a look at different lineups. We have 11 shitty basketball players not eight. It seems like obvious favoritism to me to let Davis get 200 minutes and Moore 30. And I don't have patience for 4 year rebuilds in a sport that you can improve drastically year to year based on recruiting. If Ray is on the four year slow improvement plan he's also going to be sending out resumes after four years. I'd like him to succeed and I don't see that happening unless he gets cutthroat with the back end of his bench.

The thing is: I have seen you talk positively about this basketball team at points this year -- even about Fred Thomas. You are so quick to change your loyalties, and that is sad. Are we close to being a national contender? No. Is the SEC a top 3 or 4 conference? No. With another year or two of experience, practice, offseason workouts, and extra bodies playing their true positions, do I think this team can be a top 5 SEC team? Yes. All I ask is that if/when we begin to beat other teams on a more consistent basis, whether we shoot the lights out of the gym or win by maximizing all the talent the good Lord has given us, that you would humbly admit you know less about the game of basketball than you used to think. I ask you humbly admit you do not know how team chemistry is formed and that throwing a bunch of new JUCOs on the court each year may not be the answer, and that patiently enduring the maturation of teenagers may not be the easiest, but may be the best way to develop a team. The term "growing pains" actually has meaning, and we are experiencing it. I hope you realize this at some point.

[engie]

This is my first post so I hope no hard feelings. I was a genespage reader for 12 yrs+ and actually came by this site from a post that was bashing it. All that being said:

I loved rick stansbury, he was always GREAT to me and my folks. I was a kid in middle school and he introduced me personally to jonathan bender after a game one night when he was visiting (this to me was kin to meeting an NBA superstar, obviously.). I love MSU basketballl and for about 10 yrs it was the best athletic product we had to put on the floor. There's many years between sub par football and middle of the run baseball that the stans era basketball held the shit together.

I dont blame rick ray for what he's dealing with now. Nor do i think it's Stans fault. Do i think we would have kept hood if stans was here? yes. just look at his track record, ppl say alot of bullshit after the fact. I'm not gonna play the "if if if" game, what ray has left is what he has.

In the hire as a whole - I sincerely doubt rick ray is the best basketball coach a SEC university with a history of success in basketball can hire! I stil believe there's an undisclosed story behind all of this. Maybe one day we'll all hear it.

Is this team improving? Sure, but fractionally at best. This is the worst the SEC has been in 15 yrs +, can you imagine if we were actually ina league that played the game? Put us in the ACC and see how competitive we are. Im just being realistic. Staying within 10 points of SEC teams is great until you realize they're 100+ on the RPI.

I could give a **** about the player by player improvement. Sword CANT ****ING SCORE unless he drives, or gets fouled. There's a reason why he cant penetrate anymore, and his freethrows are suspect at best anyway. Teams know, if he doesnt drive or get fouled, HE DOESNT ****ING SCORE. Not a hard defensive gameplane.

I hate the rick ray hire, and i put it on strick. I dont blame rick ray, and i wish him the best of luck. But its hard when he's set him self up with the hand he has. If he makes NIT next year, IN A WEAK AS **** SEC, miracle. my guess. ina weak SEC, we win less than 8 sec games again and miss the NIT. I myself, want a real coaching search for our mens bbball coach. A bench assistant just seems like .... needy.

Could have just changed the names from Stans to Polk -- I've seen this post literally 100 times before.

So, we'll throw you in the rush to judgement on the new coach -- supporter of the old coach crowd? Exactly like the majority of Genespage didn't support the Cohen hire for the first couple of years either. But I'm sure you were a renaissance man that saw the future -- since 99% of everyone claims that now. Yet there were precious few of us in reality that were constantly painted into a corner about it those first 2.5 years. How does a significant portion your group always end up supporting a coach ahead of our school -- thus making it WAY more difficult on the next guy with a divided fanbase from day 1?

"Is the team improving? Sure, but fractionally at best." --- Like Dawg61, you must not be very good at reading statistics that have been spoon fed to you either. If the team shows the same improvement from this year to next year that it's shown from last year to this year, it's the BEST field goal percentage and 3rd best MSU scoring basketball team since the beginning of the Stansbury era. If that encompasses "fractional at best" improvement to you, I'd hate to know what signifies real improvement -- but suffice to say you haven't actually seen it on one of our basketball teams in the modern era. Feel free to offer counter statistics. No one has yet. Which leads me to believe it's just a bunch of people have their panties wadded up over the losing streak and are going WAY too far to try to diminish the overall improvement that the team has actually shown on the court thusfar. Either that, or the improvement doesn't fit their agenda.

You can "not like how the hiring process went" all you want. The MAJORITY of us have been vocal about not liking how it was handled by Strick. That doesn't, however, in ANY WAY prove that he arrived at the wrong answer. We won't know the answer to that until the end of year 3 at the VERY SOONEST. But when you start defining the boundaries and limitations of the next coach based on that -- while hoping that we suck again and basically counting days until you can get rid of him -- then there's a problem.

"A bench assistant just seems like..." --- how did your faction refer to favorite in the clubhouse, Kenny Payne then?

[NewTweederEndzoneDance]

Context is king, my friend. As I said, I am not comparing Davis to other point guard recruits in the country. I am comparing him to Moore which is what Dawg61 freely did. I agree that Ray hasn't brought in great talent, but any former point guard can see Jacoby has a good skill set. He just needs experience and to learn the pace of the college game. Decision-making will catch up with those things. He will never be all SEC, but my argument was that his contribution to MSU will be much higher than Moore's.

Let's not forget that while ACL surgery has come a long way, it still takes time to recover and then more time to get back into playing shape, and time to recover the feel for the game, and time for a player to trust the surgically repaired ligaments again.


We are going to suck with Moore or with Davis and with Flat Shot or Bear so what's the difference. Atleast give the players some rest and let us get a look at different lineups. We have 11 shitty basketball players not eight. It seems like obvious favoritism to me to let Davis get 200 minutes and Moore 30. And I don't have patience for 4 year rebuilds in a sport that you can improve drastically year to year based on recruiting. If Ray is on the four year slow improvement plan he's also going to be sending out resumes after four years. I'd like him to succeed and I don't see that happening unless he gets cutthroat with the back end of his bench.

Favoritism? It's favoritism to try and develop a freshman who the coach thinks can help us over the next 4 years, who is coming off major surgery and who trying to re-adjust to the game, instead of playing a 6'5" post player who mainly plays football and will never be available for an entire basketball season during the span of his MSU career? Do you even read the things you post?

ETA: I read wrong and thought you were referring to your love child, Bear Wilson, but my point really stands regardless so your forthcoming attempts to discredit me over the difference in Bear and Moor is going to look just as dumb as the rest of your posts.

[MadDawg]

Could have just changed the names from Stans to Polk -- I've seen this post literally 100 times before.

And we've all read your replies 1,000 times before. We get it. You think Ray = Cohen. And you think anyone who doesn't agree is stupid. We get it, engie. Your shit smells like ****ing roses.

[Coach34]

Oh really? Because I thought his point was to be patient and let's see what Ray does once he has his 2nd and 3rd recruiting class hit the floor

[drunkernhelldawg]

This is my first post so I hope no hard feelings. I was a genespage reader for 12 yrs+ and actually came by this site from a post that was bashing it. All that being said:

I loved rick stansbury, he was always GREAT to me and my folks. I was a kid in middle school and he introduced me personally to jonathan bender after a game one night when he was visiting (this to me was kin to meeting an NBA superstar, obviously.). I love MSU basketballl and for about 10 yrs it was the best athletic product we had to put on the floor. There's many years between sub par football and middle of the run baseball that the stans era basketball held the shit together.

I dont blame rick ray for what he's dealing with now. Nor do i think it's Stans fault. Do i think we would have kept hood if stans was here? yes. just look at his track record, ppl say alot of bullshit after the fact. I'm not gonna play the "if if if" game, what ray has left is what he has.

In the hire as a whole - I sincerely doubt rick ray is the best basketball coach a SEC university with a history of success in basketball can hire! I stil believe there's an undisclosed story behind all of this. Maybe one day we'll all hear it.

Is this team improving? Sure, but fractionally at best. This is the worst the SEC has been in 15 yrs +, can you imagine if we were actually ina league that played the game? Put us in the ACC and see how competitive we are. Im just being realistic. Staying within 10 points of SEC teams is great until you realize they're 100+ on the RPI.

I could give a **** about the player by player improvement. Sword CANT ****ING SCORE unless he drives, or gets fouled. There's a reason why he cant penetrate anymore, and his freethrows are suspect at best anyway. Teams know, if he doesnt drive or get fouled, HE DOESNT ****ING SCORE. Not a hard defensive gameplane.

I hate the rick ray hire, and i put it on strick. I dont blame rick ray, and i wish him the best of luck. But its hard when he's set him self up with the hand he has. If he makes NIT next year, IN A WEAK AS **** SEC, miracle. my guess. ina weak SEC, we win less than 8 sec games again and miss the NIT. I myself, want a real coaching search for our mens bbball coach. A bench assistant just seems like .... needy.

I think this is an exceptional post in that it defines both sides of this family feud. I don't think the problems are because of Rick Ray. He's been a positive, if anything. But when SS allowed our players and coaches to be thrown under the bus like they were, it was pretty easy for our other players and potential players to see how they could be valued by our fans and our university. I doubt Hood would have stayed with Stans either, but seeing our level of loyalty and appreciation probably made it a no brainer to get the hell out of Boardtown.

[NewTweederEndzoneDance]

I think this is an exceptional post in that it defines both sides of this family feud. I don't think the problems are because of Rick Ray. He's been a positive, if anything. But when SS allowed our players and coaches to be thrown under the bus like they were, it was pretty easy for our other players and potential players to see how they could be valued by our fans and our university. I doubt Hood would have stayed with Stans either, but seeing our level of loyalty and appreciation probably made it a no brainer to get the hell out of Boardtown.

The guy went to Duke where he is receiving coaching and instruction from one of, if not the, greatest basketball coaches in history, and will be a first round selection in all likelihood this June if he chooses to head to the NBA. It was really a no brainer for him to get out regardless of who the coach is/was.

[MadDawg]

This is my first post so I hope no hard feelings. I was a genespage reader for 12 yrs+ and actually came by this site from a post that was bashing it. All that being said:

I loved rick stansbury, he was always GREAT to me and my folks. I was a kid in middle school and he introduced me personally to jonathan bender after a game one night when he was visiting (this to me was kin to meeting an NBA superstar, obviously.). I love MSU basketballl and for about 10 yrs it was the best athletic product we had to put on the floor. There's many years between sub par football and middle of the run baseball that the stans era basketball held the shit together.

I dont blame rick ray for what he's dealing with now. Nor do i think it's Stans fault. Do i think we would have kept hood if stans was here? yes. just look at his track record, ppl say alot of bullshit after the fact. I'm not gonna play the "if if if" game, what ray has left is what he has.

In the hire as a whole - I sincerely doubt rick ray is the best basketball coach a SEC university with a history of success in basketball can hire! I stil believe there's an undisclosed story behind all of this. Maybe one day we'll all hear it.

Is this team improving? Sure, but fractionally at best. This is the worst the SEC has been in 15 yrs +, can you imagine if we were actually ina league that played the game? Put us in the ACC and see how competitive we are. Im just being realistic. Staying within 10 points of SEC teams is great until you realize they're 100+ on the RPI.

I could give a **** about the player by player improvement. Sword CANT ****ING SCORE unless he drives, or gets fouled. There's a reason why he cant penetrate anymore, and his freethrows are suspect at best anyway. Teams know, if he doesnt drive or get fouled, HE DOESNT ****ING SCORE. Not a hard defensive gameplane.

I hate the rick ray hire, and i put it on strick. I dont blame rick ray, and i wish him the best of luck. But its hard when he's set him self up with the hand he has. If he makes NIT next year, IN A WEAK AS **** SEC, miracle. my guess. ina weak SEC, we win less than 8 sec games again and miss the NIT. I myself, want a real coaching search for our mens bbball coach. A bench assistant just seems like .... needy.

For the record, I think this is a great post too. Sorry to damage your ED cred, though.

[Dawg61]

Brad the players will always **** you over. Always. Dre Applewhite will "transfer" out of nowhere. Jalen Steele will be selfish and refuse to play. Wendell Lewis will continue not giving a **** about anything. Travis Daniels will not get cleared by the NCAA. Fallou Ndoye will not get cleared by the NCAA. Kristers Zeidaks will smoke weed till he's kicked off. Shaun Smith will smoke weed till he's kicked off. Rodney Hood will transfer when you need him most. Renardo Sidney will be a team killing cancer that leaves a year early. Arnett Moultrie will leave after his junior year. If you go about building your roster expecting the players to do right then you'll be left short handed every single year. Ray has also kept an open scholarship for future use only to need that player each year more than future years.

I'm trying to help Rick Ray keep his job. If he stays loyal to players that don't have the talent to be playing SEC basketball he's going to get fired. The Hump is a ghost town right now. That's not good. This is the time Ray can save it. Right now. Go get four shooters. Four guys that can shoot the lights out. If you mix that into our roster for next year we can be playing postseason basketball again. If Ray is counting on Fred, Bloodman, Dunlap and Davis to be his shooters he's in a world of hurt. If Ray is not doing everything he can to be in the NCAA tournament NEXT YEAR then I want him gone. Right now I want him gone if he's just aiming for 2017 to be the year he makes it. That's the urgency I want to see from my coach. How would Ray react knowing he only has next season to get into the NCAA tournament? Make it or you're fired? How loyal would he be to the players taking up roster spots that aren't very good? So why does he feel he has that sense of security right now that he can keep on the molasses train to victory?

I'm judging Ray right now vs Bruce Pearl. Pearl won't be on some 4 year plan to get into the tournament. He'll have the Hump filled next year and he will bring in talented players. SEC players that get the fan base excited to come see MSU basketball again. Pearl's show cause is up in August. Show me why MSU shouldn't hire him and should keep on keeping on with the Ray Train of Molasses.

If you go about building your roster slowly and trying to form team chemistry through years of enduring the maturation of teenagers then just know that at the end what is waiting for you is not some great prize it's a pink slip cause ya got fired.

[thf24]

And we've all read your replies 1,000 times before. We get it. You think Ray = Cohen. And you think anyone who doesn't agree is stupid. We get it, engie. Your shit smells like ****ing roses.

His point is not Ray=Cohen. It's that less than two years in is way too early to pass judgement on the basketball coaching change, just like it was with the baseball coaching change. And it IS stupid to do so. It would be different if we were a nationally prestigious program bringing in an elite coach, a la UK and Calipari. But we're not, contrary to what half our fanbase thinks. I don't know where this idea that any coach worth a damn should be able to right any program within a year came from. As I've already said in this thread, it was going to take three or four years no matter who we brought in, barring a home run hire that would have been a long shot under the best of circumstances, let alone the shape our program was left in.

[Dawg61]

Engie I think you should put down the statistics and actually WATCH the team play basketball. If you can stand it. Your stats are ****ed anyways. We were brutally awful shooting the basketball last year to the tune of 40% fg and 28% 3s and yes we have improved but ****ing Christ man we were ranked like 310th in the nation in shooting last year and we are ranked 171st this year does not mean we'll be ranked 30th in the nation in shooting next year. The fact you're even trying to imply that shocks me man. Come on man you're better than that. The first gains from hell will always be the highest. You can't keep improving at the same rate. It's like impossible brother. Math and shit.

[Brad Stevens]

Brad the players will always **** you over. Always. Dre Applewhite will "transfer" out of nowhere. Jalen Steele will be selfish and refuse to play. Wendell Lewis will continue not giving a **** about anything. Travis Daniels will not get cleared by the NCAA. Fallou Ndoye will not get cleared by the NCAA. Kristers Zeidaks will smoke weed till he's kicked off. Shaun Smith will smoke weed till he's kicked off. Rodney Hood will transfer when you need him most. Renardo Sidney will be a team killing cancer that leaves a year early. Arnett Moultrie will leave after his junior year. If you go about building your roster expecting the players to do right then you'll be left short handed every single year. Ray has also kept an open scholarship for future use only to need that player each year more than future years.

I'm trying to help Rick Ray keep his job. If he stays loyal to players that don't have the talent to be playing SEC basketball he's going to get fired. The Hump is a ghost town right now. That's not good. This is the time Ray can save it. Right now. Go get four shooters. Four guys that can shoot the lights out. If you mix that into our roster for next year we can be playing postseason basketball again. If Ray is counting on Fred, Bloodman, Dunlap and Davis to be his shooters he's in a world of hurt. If Ray is not doing everything he can to be in the NCAA tournament NEXT YEAR then I want him gone. Right now I want him gone if he's just aiming for 2017 to be the year he makes it. That's the urgency I want to see from my coach. How would Ray react knowing he only has next season to get into the NCAA tournament? Make it or you're fired? How loyal would he be to the players taking up roster spots that aren't very good? So why does he feel he has that sense of security right now that he can keep on the molasses train to victory?

I'm judging Ray right now vs Bruce Pearl. Pearl won't be on some 4 year plan to get into the tournament. He'll have the Hump filled next year and he will bring in talented players. SEC players that get the fan base excited to come see MSU basketball again. Pearl's show cause is up in August. Show me why MSU shouldn't hire him and should keep on keeping on with the Ray Train of Molasses.

If you go about building your roster slowly and trying to form team chemistry through years of enduring the maturation of teenagers then just know that at the end what is waiting for you is not some great prize it's a pink slip cause ya got fired.

Goodness. You mentioned every transfer, but left off every player that stayed. You obviously haven't seen Dunlap play. That guy can shoot from real deep. He is just shorter than an average 2 guard. IJ can shoot, but he is shorter than an average 1 guard. Davis can shoot, he just doesn't have great decision making at this point. The one thing you have correct is that Bloodman can't shoot. Thankfully, he is pretty good from the free throw line, though.

The most fundamental thing we disagree on is that a quick fix does not equal the right fix. Ray may very well not pan out, but I'm willing to give the man a shot.

[tcdog70]

This is my first post so I hope no hard feelings. I was a genespage reader for 12 yrs+ and actually came by this site from a post that was bashing it. All that being said:

I loved rick stansbury, he was always GREAT to me and my folks. I was a kid in middle school and he introduced me personally to jonathan bender after a game one night when he was visiting (this to me was kin to meeting an NBA superstar, obviously.). I love MSU basketballl and for about 10 yrs it was the best athletic product we had to put on the floor. There's many years between sub par football and middle of the run baseball that the stans era basketball held the shit together.

I dont blame rick ray for what he's dealing with now. Nor do i think it's Stans fault. Do i think we would have kept hood if stans was here? yes. just look at his track record, ppl say alot of bullshit after the fact. I'm not gonna play the "if if if" game, what ray has left is what he has.

In the hire as a whole - I sincerely doubt rick ray is the best basketball coach a SEC university with a history of success in basketball can hire! I stil believe there's an undisclosed story behind all of this. Maybe one day we'll all hear it.

Is this team improving? Sure, but fractionally at best. This is the worst the SEC has been in 15 yrs +, can you imagine if we were actually ina league that played the game? Put us in the ACC and see how competitive we are. Im just being realistic. Staying within 10 points of SEC teams is great until you realize they're 100+ on the RPI.

I could give a **** about the player by player improvement. Sword CANT ****ING SCORE unless he drives, or gets fouled. There's a reason why he cant penetrate anymore, and his freethrows are suspect at best anyway. Teams know, if he doesnt drive or get fouled, HE DOESNT ****ING SCORE. Not a hard defensive gameplane.

I hate the rick ray hire, and i put it on strick. I dont blame rick ray, and i wish him the best of luck. But its hard when he's set him self up with the hand he has. If he makes NIT next year, IN A WEAK AS **** SEC, miracle. my guess. ina weak SEC, we win less than 8 sec games again and miss the NIT. I myself, want a real coaching search for our mens bbball coach. A bench assistant just seems like .... needy.

Great 1st Post. You are seeing it just the way it is. Hell, I wish Rick Ray was the Second Coming Henry Iba or Frank McGuire, but He has done nothing to make me believe he can succeed i The SEC. Please quit with the John Cohen comparisons. The only thing that will help Him is to recruit some players with skills, So far after 2 years he has Ready to show for His efforts. Sure He has some more coming, But for Now Stansbury's players are the reason He is having any success. If USM can be 21-3 with half their team JUCO's (no players from Ms) then Why can't MSU do it.

[thf24]

Engie I think you should put down the statistics and actually WATCH the team play basketball. If you can stand it. Your stats are ****ed anyways. We were brutally awful shooting the basketball last year to the tune of 40% fg and 28% 3s and yes we have improved but ****ing Christ man we were ranked like 310th in the nation in shooting last year and we are ranked 171st this year does not mean we'll be ranked 30th in the nation in shooting next year. The fact you're even trying to imply that shocks me man. Come on man you're better than that. The first gains from hell will always be the highest. You can't keep improving at the same rate. It's like impossible brother. Math and shit.

Have you actually WATCHED the guy you want to cut make 35% of his 3 point attempts in the past month? Yeah, we're not good right now. No one is arguing that we are. But it's also clear that we're improving.

[Coach34]

Have you actually WATCHED the guy you want to cut make 35% of his 3 point attempts in the past month? Yeah, we're not good right now. No one is arguing that we are. But it's also clear that we're improving.

and people wonder why I have made so many "I told you so" posts over the years- this thread is a perfect example

[tcdog70]

Oh really? Because I thought his point was to be patient and let's see what Ray does once he has his 2nd and 3rd recruiting class hit the floor

Davis and Applewhite were his first recruiting class, Ready is his second.

[Coach34]

Davis and Applewhite were his first recruiting class, Ready is his second.

No....just no

You dont hire a guy in April and then after it takes him some time at his new job- he manages sign a couple of leftovers late because he needs the bodies. Thats not a recruiting class. Dont be stupid.

[Dawg61]

and people wonder why I have made so many "I told you so" posts over the years- this thread is a perfect example

I'm wondering when the C34 I knew for eight years is coming back? Ya know the one that posted over 25,000 posts against Stansbury. You can love Ray all you want but it'd be nice to get your basketball input back.

[tcdog70]

Context is king, my friend. As I said, I am not comparing Davis to other point guard recruits in the country. I am comparing him to Moore which is what Dawg61 freely did. I agree that Ray hasn't brought in great talent, but any former point guard can see Jacoby has a good skill set. He just needs experience and to learn the pace of the college game. Decision-making will catch up with those things. He will never be all SEC, but my argument was that his contribution to MSU will be much higher than Moore's.

Did you watch our last Game? Davis had four straight trips down the floor where he bricked it or threw it the 17 away. We went down 9 points in that span. Wilson really isn't a post player but he can play some power forward. Hell, Adrian Dantley was 6'4" and so was Charles Barkley. I don't see why Wilson should get a few more minutes. In the game I've seen He blocks out, rebounds, doesn't turn it over and best of all he defends. I guess Alabama didn't have any players worth a shit so they just gave MR BASKETBALL to that No-talented Bear Wilson***.

[mic]

Here is a simple answer to this question...
Rick Ray is a better X and O coach than Stands period
Our team plays harder and RR gets more out of his players than prob 80% of the teams Stands had.

But he has to recruit better or find a way to get more W's or year 4 will be his last..

[tcdog70]

No....just no

You dont hire a guy in April and then after it takes him some time at his new job- he manages sign a couple of leftovers late because he needs the bodies. Thats not a recruiting class. Dont be stupid.

That is your Opinion. he has actually had 2 regular recruitings and an early signing.Do you think he wasn't recruiting players when he was at Clemson as was his main man Flanigan. But keep spinning and people that don't know better might think You no what you are talking about.

[tcdog70]

Here is a simple answer to this question...
Rick Ray is a better X and O coach than Stands period
Our team plays harder and RR gets more out of his players than prob 80% of the teams Stands had.

But he has to recruit better or find a way to get more W's or year 4 will be his last..

I call Bull Shit. Give an example of Ray's Xs and Os being better. I have not seen it.I have seen Ready, Bloodman and Davis look like a BullFighter with their olays. They just stand back watch their player drive in for easy bunnies. More teams get wide ass opens 3s than I have ever seen at MSU.R Johnson doesn't hustle that is why Ray jerks Him out of game.

So you are saying-Bost, Hood, Moultrie ,Varnado, Stewart, and the list can go on and on didn't play hard?

[Coach34]

I'm wondering when the C34 I knew for eight years is coming back? Ya know the one that posted over 25,000 posts against Stansbury. You can love Ray all you want but it'd be nice to get your basketball input back.

I'm not sure what you want from me. Ray has been facing a total rebuild, players that wont stop smoking dope, and injuries.

The guy can coach. We do a great job in our zone offense. We cant shoot worth a shit yet we still manage to break zone defenses down to get shots. We dont just launch 30 3-pointers vs a zone like we did under Stands because they didnt understand how to attack a zone.

We come out of time-outs and get good shots that you can tell were drawn up in the huddle.
We get to the FT line at home because we attack the basket- which is this team's strength.
We defend pretty well but struggle with rebounding alot due to size and lack of depth
Davis is a better player than a Twanny Beckham- whom we have signed in the past. He's a freshman playing his 1st college basketball coming off a knee injury. He will get better. Just like Ware will, and Sword, and FTF, and so on

Judge Ray on the next 2 seasons- that will tell you what you need to know

[Coach34]

I call Bull Shit. Give an example of Ray's Xs and Os being better. I have not seen it.

Then you havent watched or you cant comprehend it

Our zone offense under Ray compared to Stands is light years ahead. Stands team used to stand around and pass around the perimeter vs zones and launch 25-30 3 pointers. That was the zone offense.

Ray's team moves ball, overloads a side, sets screens to penetrate, and does all kinds of things to attack zone defenses

It's literally like not even close.

[Coach34]

Did you watch our last Game? Davis had four straight trips down the floor where he bricked it or threw it the 17 away. We went down 9 points in that span. Wilson really isn't a post player but he can play some power forward. Hell, Adrian Dantley was 6'4" and so was Charles Barkley. I don't see why Wilson should get a few more minutes. In the game I've seen He blocks out, rebounds, doesn't turn it over and best of all he defends. I guess Alabama didn't have any players worth a shit so they just gave MR BASKETBALL to that No-talented Bear Wilson***.

Wilson's very 1st trip down the floor vs Kentucky he gave up an offensive rebound and put back right over him. You guys need to stop telling everybody what he was in HS and watch him play

[Dawg61]

I'm not sure what you want from me. Ray has been facing a total rebuild, players that wont stop smoking dope, and injuries.

The guy can coach. We do a great job in our zone offense. We cant shoot worth a shit yet we still manage to break zone defenses down to get shots. We dont just launch 30 3-pointers vs a zone like we did under Stands because they didnt understand how to attack a zone.

We come out of time-outs and get good shots that you can tell were drawn up in the huddle.
We get to the FT line at home because we attack the basket- which is this team's strength.
We defend pretty well but struggle with rebounding alot due to size and lack of depth
Davis is a better player than a Twanny Beckham- whom we have signed in the past. He's a freshman playing his 1st college basketball coming off a knee injury. He will get better. Just like Ware will, and Sword, and FTF, and so on

Judge Ray on the next 2 seasons- that will tell you what you need to know

That's exactly what I want from ya. Your basketball input. Thank you.

[Coach34]

That is your Opinion. he has actually had 2 regular recruitings and an early signing..

No, Just No

There was no opinion in what I said. He got here in April after being hired. And then he had to meet people on campus, meet boosters, meet his new team, evaluate on film what he had on said team, and then decide what in the hell he could find out there to bring in at a very late date. Basketball players sign in Nov and then it opens back up in March for the rest who are still unsigned. There is very little left to sign by mid to late April. That's not opinion- that's fact.

All you do is show an agenda when you act like he had time to get a recruiting class together at that late of a date

[Dawg61]

Agreed on Ray having a better offense in the half-court than Stansbury but Stans had far superior players that more than made up that difference. Put our #2 seed team with this offense and we beat anyone but Xavier that year.

[Irondawg]

Zone offense is better under Ray but I still don't consider it good. IMO ball movement is still a touch too slow and I really think we should utilize the high post a bit more. Like many of Stans teams we're still not a very good passing team and there isn't a lot of natural basketball IQ out there - but that's not a problem limited to MSU. AAU is destroying that and you can see it across all of college basketball.

Purely X&O from what I've seen, I think Ray is a solid coach. Nothing spectacular but far from inept. So that means it all comes down to if he can get his talent level up with players that fit his style and requirements. That's a lot tougher to do in the Southeast than many of you make it.

Let's use Southern Miss' recent return to small relevance in the sport as an example. They have all of 3 players from the Southeast. And of those 3 only two get PT and account for about 12 points and 5 rebounds combined.

[engie]

And we've all read your replies 1,000 times before. We get it. You think Ray = Cohen. And you think anyone who doesn't agree is stupid. We get it, engie. Your shit smells like ****ing roses.

No. And I'd love a link to me saying such.

I think Ray deserves a fair shake starting out -- like Cohen deserved a fair shake he didn't get. But our dumbass fans are taking the same dumbass approach -- simply makng the rebuild longer and hurting what they profess to love.

[engie]

So, you are comparing Ray to someone we couldn't possibly hope to hire. Got it**

[engie]

So far after 2 years he has Ready to show for His efforts.

This is a perfect example of skewing toward an agenda.

[engie]

Davis and Applewhite were his first recruiting class, Ready is his second.

Further example of skewing for an agenda.

[drunkernhelldawg]

Here is a simple answer to this question...
Rick Ray is a better X and O coach than Stands period
Our team plays harder and RR gets more out of his players than prob 80% of the teams Stands had.

But he has to recruit better or find a way to get more W's or year 4 will be his last..

We do have spurts of playing excellent defense, but your idea that this team "plays harder than prob 80% or the teams Stands had" is laughable. Just curious: Why do you call him "Stands"?

[engie]

Agreed on Ray having a better offense in the half-court than Stansbury but Stans had far superior players that more than made up that difference. Put our #2 seed team with this offense and we beat anyone but Xavier that year.

Stans' second team at MSU was sub-500(14-16). He had built that team for 10 years at MSU. Let's compare apples to apples instead of looking at the height of the Stansbury era to either intentionally or unintentionally skew the argument against Ray...

[mic]

We do have spurts of playing excellent defense, but your idea that this team "plays harder than prob 80% or the teams Stands had" is laughable. Just curious: Why do you call him "Stands"?

if you don't think this teams plays harder that than a lot of the teams that Stands threw out there then I cant help ya..

[Dawg61]

So, you are comparing Ray to someone we couldn't possibly hope to hire. Got it**

Last 15 years in SEC basketball most wins.
1 Kentucky
2 Florida
3 Tennessee
4 MSU

Tennessee will not hire Pearl back and #1&2 ain't hiring a new coach any decade soon so why can't the next team with the most wins be able to hire Bruce Pearl coming off sanctions and being fired? Remember which team we beat in the SEC Championship game in 2009? Bruce Pearl's Tennessee. He knows all about MSU.

[engie]

Zone offense is better under Ray but I still don't consider it good. IMO ball movement is still a touch too slow and I really think we should utilize the high post a bit more. Like many of Stans teams we're still not a very good passing team and there isn't a lot of natural basketball IQ out there - but that's not a problem limited to MSU. AAU is destroying that and you can see it across all of college basketball.

Purely X&O from what I've seen, I think Ray is a solid coach. Nothing spectacular but far from inept. So that means it all comes down to if he can get his talent level up with players that fit his style and requirements. That's a lot tougher to do in the Southeast than many of you make it.

Let's use Southern Miss' recent return to small relevance in the sport as an example. They have all of 3 players from the Southeast. And of those 3 only two get PT and account for about 12 points and 5 rebounds combined.

Why can't we win big in the same mold? Why can't we find pipelines to players from fundamental feeder high schools around the country? Why does the number of stars next to that player's name matter?

What I find curious is the "Trust Mullen evaluation over Starz" approach our fans take -- yet they turn DIRECTLY around and bash Ray over his "StarZ recruiting". Seems an awful lot like trying to have your cake and eat it too.

All I'm saying is -- there is NO NEED to define Ray on anything until year 3. Next year, he better get it done. Can you "break down" games in these first 2 years and bitch about a ton of stuff compared to Stansbury? SURE. You could do the same EXACT thing with Cohen compared to Polk -- and alot of people did. Doesn't make it any more right and any less harmful to MSU and the general feelings surrounding the program...

[MadDawg]

if you don't think this teams plays harder that than a lot of the teams that Stands threw out there then I can help ya..

Just think, if Stans could have got his talented teams to play with half the hustle Ray gets, we would have multiple national championships by now. ***

Hey engie, I think this is another one of those "skewing toward an agenda" posts.

[thf24]

We do have spurts of playing excellent defense, but your idea that this team "plays harder than prob 80% or the teams Stands had" is laughable.

I agree that a blanket statement like "80% of Stansbury's teams" is untrue. What is true is that all of Ray's players play hard, while only those who were self-motivated played hard under Stansbury for the most part. Most of his teams played good defense and rebounded well because he recruited more of that type of player than not for about 2/3 of his tenure, but it became apparent that he was limited as a motivator when that ratio began to flip around 2007-2008 as he was bringing in more attitude problems than workers.

[Dawg61]

Stans' second team at MSU was sub-500(14-16). He had built that team for 10 years at MSU. Let's compare apples to apples instead of looking at the height of the Stansbury era to either intentionally or unintentionally skew the argument against Ray...

I am/was right in line behind C34 in wanting Stansbury gone. I wanted Stansbury fired and every single one of us had visions of a different coach than Stricklin. Ray wanted that pressure. He said he was the man for it. I'm holding him to that but I'm not going to sit back and let Ray turn back the clock to 1974 when players stayed for 4 seasons. College basketball is 1 year and renews. Ray has 4 that don't need renews. I'll settle for 2. Go get TWO SHOOTERS and I'll shut the **** up.

[engie]

Last 15 years in SEC basketball most wins.
1 Kentucky
2 Florida
3 Tennessee
4 MSU

Tennessee will not hire Pearl back and #1&2 ain't hiring a new coach any decade soon so why can't the next team with the most wins be able to hire Bruce Pearl coming off sanctions and being fired? Remember which team we beat in the SEC Championship game in 2009? Bruce Pearl's Tennessee. He knows all about MSU.

What the heck makes you think UT won't hire him back? Cuonzo is CLEARLY on the hot seat right now and their fans are CLAMORING for Pearl. And all those wins don't mean anything. They were never significant enough for us to build a badass basketball arena that brought in revenue comparable to the top of the SEC. As such, we're still on the lower tier of basketball money. And Bruce Pearl is about to get PAID by someone nationally and will be the hottest name in coaching coming off his Show-Cause. So, unless you can figure out how we can come up with $2.5-$3million(in which case we probably could have gotten Shaka on the front end), then Bruce Pearl is outside of our league right now.

[engie]

I am/was right in line behind C34 in wanting Stansbury gone. I wanted Stansbury fired and every single one of us had visions of a different coach than Stricklin. Ray wanted that pressure. He said he was the man for it. I'm holding him to that but I'm not going to sit back and let Ray turn back the clock to 1974 when players stayed for 4 seasons. College basketball is 1 year and renews. Ray has 4 that don't need renews. I'll settle for 2. Go get TWO SHOOTERS and I'll shut the **** up.

So, you disagree that years 1 and 2 were going to be a rebuild no matter what or who we hired? If that part can be assumed...what, then, are you bitching about?

[Coach34]

Why do you call him "Stands"?

It's a play on his nickname because of the irony that the man ran a "motion" offense- but our team did nothing but "stand" around on offense alot of the time

[engie]

Just think, if Stans could have got his talented teams to play with half the hustle Ray gets, we would have multiple national championships by now. ***

Hey engie, I think this is another one of those "skewing toward an agenda" posts.

No need to point it out. Everyone already knows what your agenda is.

[Dawg61]

I agree that a blanket statement like "80% of Stansbury's teams" is untrue. What is true is that all of Ray's players play hard, while only those who were self-motivated played hard under Stansbury for the most part. Most of his teams played good defense and rebounded well because he recruited more of that type of player than not for about 2/3 of his tenure, but it became apparent that he was limited as a motivator when that ratio began to flip around 2007-2008 as he was bringing in more attitude problems than workers.

I've seen MSU walk the ball up the court more times this year than the 14 seasons of Stansbury combined. Yes Ray's teams play hard AT TIMES but let's not act like they are the example of a hard working team and not the norm. VCU plays hard. Michigan State plays hard. Mississippi State doesn't play hard at all. With Stansbury or with Rick Ray.

[MadDawg]

No need to point it out. Everyone already knows what your agenda is.

swing...... and a miss

[C222]

I am/was right in line behind C34 in wanting Stansbury gone. I wanted Stansbury fired and every single one of us had visions of a different coach than Stricklin. Ray wanted that pressure. He said he was the man for it. I'm holding him to that but I'm not going to sit back and let Ray turn back the clock to 1974 when players stayed for 4 seasons. College basketball is 1 year and renews. Ray has 4 that don't need renews. I'll settle for 2. Go get TWO SHOOTERS and I'll shut the **** up.

What are you going to do? Post your displeasure on a message board so that 1% of our fanbase will see it?

[MadDawg]

I've seen MSU walk the ball up the court more times this year than the 14 seasons of Stansbury combined. Yes Ray's teams play hard AT TIMES but let's not act like they are the example of a hard working team and not the norm. VCU plays hard. Michigan State plays hard. Mississippi State doesn't play hard at all. With Stansbury or with Rick Ray.

I've seen this too. Don't know about the "more times than the 14 seasons" part, but I've seen stretches of lazy play. I've seen Ware take whole plays off where he didn't even make it back to play defense. Reminded me of Sideny. I've seen the motionless offense.

But when we stand around and lob up a prayer and it bricks off the backboard, the mantra is that we just don't have any shooters. When it happened under the old regime, it was because we were too lazy or the coaches didn't know how to run an offense.

[thf24]

I've seen MSU walk the ball up the court more times this year than the 14 seasons of Stansbury combined. Yes Ray's teams play hard AT TIMES but let's not act like they are the example of a hard working team and not the norm. VCU plays hard. Michigan State plays hard. Mississippi State doesn't play hard at all. With Stansbury or with Rick Ray.

Bringing the ball up the court has nothing to do with playing hard. If our players are as bad as you say they are, do you really want to see them try to play fast and force plays in transition?

Another problem with your points besides being mostly rooted in fantasy instead of reality is that most of them contradict each other.

[engie]

I've seen MSU walk the ball up the court more times this year than the 14 seasons of Stansbury combined. Yes Ray's teams play hard AT TIMES but let's not act like they are the example of a hard working team and not the norm. VCU plays hard. Michigan State plays hard. Mississippi State doesn't play hard at all. With Stansbury or with Rick Ray.

L O L

[drunkernhelldawg]

It's a play on his nickname because of the irony that the man ran a "motion" offense- but our team did nothing but "stand" around on offense alot of the time

Not being sarcastic here. I'm impressed by the construction. Appreciate it.

[engie]

swing...... and a miss

Yet you only show up when it's time to bitch about our current basketball coach and team.

Your agenda is totally transparent -- and this isn't a new occurrence. It's been consistent for 2 years now.

[Dawg61]

I have my "sources" and the Chancellor at UT Jimmy Cheek is not going to allow the hiring back of Bruce Pearl no matter how many fans cry for him. Bruce Pearl won't be getting $2.5 mill a year out the gate. He's only coveted in the SEC right now. Outside this league he's looked at as a dirty coach that schools won't want to touch. He's actually a very nice guy. He just pissed off the wrong guy 20 years ago. We can get Bruce Pearl and I think we can get him at $1.8 mill. Take us to the tourney and we'll bump it $200,000 each time. That's what I'd offer him.

[thf24]

Delete

[Dawg61]

So, you disagree that years 1 and 2 were going to be a rebuild no matter what or who we hired? If that part can be assumed...what, then, are you bitching about?

The pace of this rebuild is what I'm bitching about. Y'all are fine with waiting for year 5 before we don't make it to the NCAA tournament before firing Ray. **** that. Go get us some ****ing players and lets atleast make the NIT next year. Can't find any players? Oh that sucks man cause you said you could. Guess we're getting another coach again. This time I bet they aren't anti-AAU.

[Brad Stevens]

I've seen MSU walk the ball up the court more times this year than the 14 seasons of Stansbury combined. Yes Ray's teams play hard AT TIMES but let's not act like they are the example of a hard working team and not the norm. VCU plays hard. Michigan State plays hard. Mississippi State doesn't play hard at all. With Stansbury or with Rick Ray.

Congratulations. You have solidified the fact you live in a fantasy land where you are Lord and ruler of all things MSU basketball. Even Ray-haters know we push the ball in transition AND play very hard.

By the way, I realize this is a fan site, and you are completely entitled to your opinion. It's when you present your opinion from the standpoint of being the all-knowing basketball guru (when your knowledge is completely lacking) that you make yourself look really dumb. Just think before you post, man. I want our country to improve, but I don't get on random political message boards enforcing my opinion as THE way to fix this country. It's just dumb.

[Dawg61]

Bringing the ball up the court has nothing to do with playing hard. If our players are as bad as you say they are, do you really want to see them try to play fast and force plays in transition?


YES THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT I WANT TO SEE! Use all 11 basketball players and fly up and down the ****ing court. You don't have to be a great shooter to score in transition which is mostly layups and shots within 10 feet. Run up and down the court every single play. That's why I've been asking for more Bear, Moore, Ready, Roq and Sword lineups. They are FAST. Be a fast basketball team and all sorts of new ways to score open up without needing to be able to shoot for shit.

[smootness]

The pace of this rebuild is what I'm bitching about. Y'all are fine with waiting for year 5 before we don't make it to the NCAA tournament before firing Ray. **** that. Go get us some ****ing players and lets atleast make the NIT next year. Can't find any players? Oh that sucks man cause you said you could. Guess we're getting another coach again. This time I bet they aren't anti-AAU.

I don't get you. I would assume you don't claim to be an expert on anything basketball, yet you make up your own mind as to the one or two things that we absolutely must do and then rail on Ray if he doesn't do them.

The pace of the rebuild? Next year our core roster will be juniors, not freshmen being thrown to the fire or still-maturing sophomores. They will be upperclassmen and should know exactly what they need to do and be much better at executing that? But you want to 'go get us some players'? From where? This seems like a very easy strategy...wonder why schools like Arkansas, Alabama, Georgia, Auburn, LSU, and Tennessee don't do it?

Things like this take time. They just do. Fans can say, 'Forget that, cut the whole roster and bring in great players!' all they want, but that doesn't mean it's possible.

[tcdog70]

This is a perfect example of skewing toward an agenda.

He has 1 player that he recruited that might be a decent Player. Where is the agenda, just a fact. Davis, Ok you might want to count Him. But He is a blight against Ray's ability to recruit.

[Dawg61]

Even Ray-haters know we push the ball in transition AND play very hard.


This isn't true Brad. We SELECTIVELY run in transition and we SELECTIVELY play hard. You know what's truly hard to do? Playing hard the entire game and sticking to the game plan of running in transition. We don't because we only have eight players. But wait that's not true we actually have ELEVEN players. I don't claim to be some basketball guru. I just speak my mind. You are the one that injects those comments in there.

[tcdog70]

Further example of skewing for an agenda.

You are the King of the Skew- I have to admit you can find Stats to sorta back up your arguments. "Stats are for Losers", who said that?

Here is a fact , Rays first recruits were Davis and Applewhite- and some dude that was a felon that he had to pull his scholly.. Fact-Ready was His lone ass recruit in His second year that is actually playing. But I am on pins and needles waiting for His JUCO player that was the third scorer on His JUCO team that couldn't pass JUCO algebra in two trys.

[Brad Stevens]

I realize the perk of a site like this is that you get to keep your anonymity. I would gain a lot of respect for you if you would admit your personal basketball experience. How long you played, how many hours you spent in a gym working on your craft, how much film you watched as a jr high/high school kid, what coaches you learned from, the positives and negatives of certain philosophies, etc. My guess (which you could admittedly lie about since you are an anonymous poster on a message board) is your experience stops at looking at rivals websites and watching MSU basketball games. SELECTIVELY running in transition (like you just referenced as a negative), is actually a very wise way to play basketball. Third graders just run up and down the court. A good point guard is selective when he pushes the ball. Anyone who has played basketball knows this.

[Dawg61]

But I am on pins and needles waiting for His JUCO player that was the third scorer on His JUCO team that couldn't pass JUCO algebra in two trys.

I think we all can agree on one thing. That was a ****ing hilarious sentence! Haha

[MadDawg]

Yet you only show up when it's time to bitch about our current basketball coach and team.

Your agenda is totally transparent -- and this isn't a new occurrence. It's been consistent for 2 years now.

I post when I want to. If you don't like it, ban me. It's really that easy.

And I don't bitch about our current basketball coach. I've corrected you several times on that point yet you still lie about me at every chance. Sounds like an agenda to me.

[Dawg61]

Brad I'm not giving you details about me personally because you're a ****ing prick without them. We can't shoot for shit so trying to score in transition is a very good idea yet we don't commit to it fully. I'm not saying they should sprint up and down like dumb asses and turn it over constantly but run up and down with the ball and if it's there take it or pull it back and run the offense. Ready and Bloodman walk the ball up 10+ times a game. They should only be doing that if we are up 20 points.

[Brad Stevens]

Brad I'm not giving you details about me personally because you're a ****ing prick without them.

Again, name-calling does not improve your credibility as a basketball guru just like my passion for my country does not make me a political guru. State your opinion as opinion and not as all-knowing fact, and we are all good here.

Also, I will take your silence on the issue as admission of the fact you have zero basketball experience, and I will do my best to stop responding to you. I just want to help others from being influenced by your lack of knowledge.

[NewTweederEndzoneDance]

That is your Opinion. he has actually had 2 regular recruitings and an early signing.Do you think he wasn't recruiting players when he was at Clemson as was his main man Flanigan. But keep spinning and people that don't know better might think You no what you are talking about.

If he's had 2 full recruiting periods then he has to get credit for Sword and Ware (and Thomas) - you can't have your cake and eat it too


He has 1 player that he recruited that might be a decent Player. Where is the agenda, just a fact. Davis, Ok you might want to count Him. But He is a blight against Ray's ability to recruit.

So you are not willing to let Davis get his feet under him after a major surgery, get used to playing in the SEC, and mature as he becomes not a freshman before deeming him the worst player ever? You are also not willing to see if any of the other guys who are redshirting or coming in next year are actually any good before labeling them the worst? Also by your own logic of his 2 full recruiting cycles he's had at least 3 if not 4 decent players.

By your logic, Casey Prather (Florida senior, in the conversation for SEC POY, and who produced very little until this season) was also the worse player ever the past few years.

[Dawg61]

Again, name-calling does not improve your credibility as a basketball guru just like my passion for my country does not make me a political guru. State your opinion as opinion and not as all-knowing fact, and we are all good here.

Also, I will take your silence on the issue as admission of the fact you have zero basketball experience, and I will do my best to stop responding to you. I just want to help others from being influenced by your lack of knowledge.

I do state my opinion as opinion. I've never once said it's "all-knowing fact". Would you prefer I open and close my posts with 2c? For two cents. I don't need to list of my basketball resume to you either Brad. I'm not asking you to hire me. I prefer to keep my personal details to myself. That doesn't mean I don't have basketball experience. It's obvious I have some wether you want to admit it or not. From what I've gathered you are somewhat affiliated with the current regime so careful on wanting me to "out" my experience if you're not prepared to do the same. From SPS to here you have made your posts towards me more about wanting to control my messaging habits and learning my basketball experience than just posting about basketball. Just talk hoops brother and we'll get along fine. I don't expect to have to most popular opinions and you shouldn't expect to control them either.

[MadDawg]

State your opinion as opinion and not as all-knowing fact, and we are all good here.

Just curious if you have the same standards for everyone? There are several I-know-everything posters on here.

Also, when did you have to start posting your "experience" as a former player/coach/benchwarmer to have an opinion? In other words, when did this become genespage?

[Goat from MSU]

Well Done
Just curious if you have the same standards for everyone? There are several I-know-everything posters on here.

Also, when did you have to start posting your "experience" as a former player/coach/benchwarmer to have an opinion? In other words, when did this become genespage?

[hacker]

Again, name-calling does not improve your credibility as a basketball guru just like my passion for my country does not make me a political guru. State your opinion as opinion and not as all-knowing fact, and we are all good here.

Also, I will take your silence on the issue as admission of the fact you have zero basketball experience, and I will do my best to stop responding to you. I just want to help others from being influenced by your lack of knowledge.

Man. You have some strong posts in this thread.

[tcdog70]

Brad I'm not giving you details about me personally because you're a ****ing prick without them. We can't shoot for shit so trying to score in transition is a very good idea yet we don't commit to it fully. I'm not saying they should sprint up and down like dumb asses and turn it over constantly but run up and down with the ball and if it's there take it or pull it back and run the offense. Ready and Bloodman walk the ball up 10+ times a game. They should only be doing that if we are up 20 points.

This was pointed out by Bobby Knight, several times. Hey Brad, do you need to know Bobby Knight's credibility? Bobby pointed out how foolish it was for our guards to walk the ball up the court and how easily it was for the other team to beat us down the court for easy layups. he also pointed out the shitty coaching by the fact that we don't know how to cut off the baseline or play help defense. he also said none of our guards can stop dribble penetration.

[tcdog70]

If he's had 2 full recruiting periods then he has to get credit for Sword and Ware (and Thomas) - you can't have your cake and eat it too



So you are not willing to let Davis get his feet under him after a major surgery, get used to playing in the SEC, and mature as he becomes not a freshman before deeming him the worst player ever? You are also not willing to see if any of the other guys who are redshirting or coming in next year are actually any good before labeling them the worst? Also by your own logic of his 2 full recruiting cycles he's had at least 3 if not 4 decent players.

By your logic, Casey Prather (Florida senior, in the conversation for SEC POY, and who produced very little until this season) was also the worse player ever the past few years.

Excuse Me Sir but those three signed with Stansbury in the early period, before Ray. Now Ray did convince them to stay, unlike Hood and Gray.. I didn't say Davis was the worst player ever, I just said he wasn't a SEC caliber player. I havent said shit about any Fla. Players, but since you bring it up--It's Fla.. I'm sure their whole team is made up of great players. They are undefeated in the SEC. My logic tells me Davis wouldn't have a Rat's ass chance to be on the Gators roster. So once again after 2 recruiting cycles He has 1 maybe SEC player in Ready.(that we have seen play against SEC teams)

[mic]

Are we doing anything to address our depth issues? How is recruiting going? I saw where we got a commit from another guard out of GA but man we are sooooo thin the post. That and we need a legitimate shooter. We are playing ok today but we will run out of gas a few minutes into the second half. You just can't keep that level of intensity up for a whole game without some depth and we have Zero. I don't understand how two years in a row we are dealing with a team that doesn't have a full roster.

There will be an article on here next week or (maybe before the weekend) that may shed light on our basketball situation. And yes it will be written by someone who has played college ball at the SEC level. You all can agree or disagree with what he has to say...

[NewTweederEndzoneDance]

Excuse Me Sir but those three signed with Stansbury in the early period, before Ray. Now Ray did convince them to stay, unlike Hood and Gray.. I didn't say Davis was the worst player ever, I just said he wasn't a SEC caliber player. I havent said shit about any Fla. Players, but since you bring it up--It's Fla.. I'm sure their whole team is made up of great players. They are undefeated in the SEC. My logic tells me Davis wouldn't have a Rat's ass chance to be on the Gators roster. So once again after 2 recruiting cycles He has 1 maybe SEC player in Ready.(that we have seen play against SEC teams)

you just said yourself that Stans signed the 3 I mentioned, yet you claim that Ray has had 2 FULL recruiting cycles. Those 2 things cannot both be true. So which is it? Either Ray gets credit for bringing in everyone in your so called "first full recruiting cycle", or he has NOT had 2 full recruiting cycles.

[smootness]

you just said yourself that Stans signed the 3 I mentioned, yet you claim that Ray has had 2 FULL recruiting cycles. Those 2 things cannot both be true. So which is it? Either Ray gets credit for bringing in everyone in your so called "first full recruiting cycle", or he has NOT had 2 full recruiting cycles.

No, they are both true for tcdog because it makes Ray look bad. Believe me, that's not a battle he will ever concede.

[tcdog70]

you just said yourself that Stans signed the 3 I mentioned, yet you claim that Ray has had 2 FULL recruiting cycles. Those 2 things cannot both be true. So which is it? Either Ray gets credit for bringing in everyone in your so called "first full recruiting cycle", or he has NOT had 2 full recruiting cycles.

3 recruiting periods
regular-1.
early---2.
regular--3.

I guess cycle was a wrong choice of words--My bad -you are correct. But I don't think I used the word Full. I meant he has recruited players in both years he has been Coach.I did give Him credit for keeping the Stansbury signees.

[tcdog70]

No, they are both true for tcdog because it makes Ray look bad. Believe me, that's not a battle he will ever concede.

come on Smoot Ray doesn't need my help in looking Bad. he is really good at doing that all by Himself

[Coach34]

come on Smoot Ray doesn't need my help in looking Bad. he is really good at doing that all by Himself

Actually Ray has looked really good to this point to anybody thats unbiased. People around the SEC are impressed. And I'm talking decision-makers- not fans

[NewTweederEndzoneDance]

3 recruiting periods
regular-1.
early---2.
regular--3.

I guess cycle was a wrong choice of words--My bad -you are correct. But I don't think I used the word Full. I meant he has recruited players in both years he has been Coach.I did give Him credit for keeping the Stansbury signees.

The "early" and "regular" recruiting periods combine each year to form one single recruiting period. He was hired in the middle of your "regular" recruiting period in 2012 (with about 3 weeks or so left in the 3+ months worth of window for players to sign during that academic calendar year), so if you insist on counting having to scramble after most signees worth a damn are already signed elsewhere, then all you are really doing is trying to reinforce your already weak argument. He had a full recruiting period last year, and we only have IJ Ready this year to show for it, which I agree is disappointing. He is currently in the middle of his second full recruiting period, which will hopefully provide us with more weapons and he also should get the rest of his first full class back next year, at which time we will get to see first hand if he was the right hire or not.

[smootness]

come on Smoot Ray doesn't need my help in looking Bad. he is really good at doing that all by Himself

Yeah, for real...just completely embarrassing what he's done considering the overflow of riches he inherited.

[HailState39110]

If we continue to lose this team will quit playing hard . I watch our team suffer through last season and quit against Vandy and Missouri at home and lose those games by 30+. If we lose vs UGA in Wed I'm not sure how much longer you can keep the group to 'keep buying in and playing hard' . That's why the game Tomorrow is so big for our confidence the rest of the season

[Goat from MSU]

A total must win. If not this team might pack it in but I do not think so.
If we continue to lose this team will quit playing hard . I watch our team suffer through last season and quit against Vandy and Missouri at home and lose those games by 30+. If we lose vs UGA in Wed I'm not sure how much longer you can keep the group to 'keep buying in and playing hard' . That's why the game Tomorrow is so big for our confidence the rest of the season