Jesus H Christ ESPN has become unbearable today

[Marooned]

They are climbing all over each other eat up with gay love today. Like they are all positioning to be the first to sleep with the dude. And I am really sick of them calling me "ignorant" because it makes my stomach turn. And to all his fellow players who are tweeting "amazing" and "earth shattering" to him? What's amazing about one dude smoking another dudes pole? The pussification of sport in America is at an all time high and the heterosexuals left are taking it from all sides( no pun intended).

Now they turn the NBA finals into a f$&@ing episode of Will and Grace. Disney is to blame for this shit. They ran all the straights out of ESPN when they bought them and now everybody is as bi-sexual as Colin Cowherd

[fishwater99]

Maybe they will have a few more players come out and they can have an all-gay NBA team.
The Golden State Gays with pink uniforms too.

I wonder what will go on in that locker room after games...

[TopDog58]

They are climbing all over each other eat up with gay love today. Like they are all positioning to be the first to sleep with the dude. And I am really sick of them calling me "ignorant" because it makes my stomach turn. And to all his fellow players who are tweeting "amazing" and "earth shattering" to him? What's amazing about one dude smoking another dudes pole? The pussification of sport in America is at an all time high and the heterosexuals left are taking it from all sides( no pun intended).

Now they turn the NBA finals into a f$&@ing episode of Will and Grace. Disney is to blame for this shit. They ran all the straights out of ESPN when they bought them and now everybody is as bi-sexual as Colin Cowherd

What's up Mike Wallace! Nice to see you on your rival's board.

[msstate7]

What's up Mike Wallace! Nice to see you on your rival's board.

Sorry not everyone is ready to celebrate Collins as a national hero.

[mparkerfd20]

They are climbing all over each other eat up with gay love today. Like they are all positioning to be the first to sleep with the dude. And I am really sick of them calling me "ignorant" because it makes my stomach turn. And to all his fellow players who are tweeting "amazing" and "earth shattering" to him? What's amazing about one dude smoking another dudes pole? The pussification of sport in America is at an all time high and the heterosexuals left are taking it from all sides( no pun intended).

Now they turn the NBA finals into a f$&@ing episode of Will and Grace. Disney is to blame for this shit. They ran all the straights out of ESPN when they bought them and now everybody is as bi-sexual as Colin Cowherd

Yeah it's ridiculous. Twitter, Facebook, ESPN... you can't hardly look at any of them this week without wanting to puke. The lovefest is a frightening indictment on the depravity we've reached in America.

[Todd4State]

Maybe they will have a few more players come out and they can have an all-gay NBA team.
The Golden State Gays with pink uniforms too.

I wonder what will go on in that locker room after games...

San Francisco Fairies? /Dodgeball

[CadaverDawg]

I'm expecting this thread to end up in the Bovine Feces Forum with this similar thread....

http://www.elitedawgs.com/showthread.php?1222-Jason-Collins-came-out-today

[Marooned]

If Mike Wallace said something anti gay then he is my new favorite ex ReBear football player.






Actually he would be my only one.

[Will James]

I wonder when somebody will realize that an alternative to ESPN could work and try to pursue that.

[Marooned]

I usually have ESPN radio on in car when I pick my elementary school kids up. I had to turn it off because my 8yr old wanted to know what "gay" meant. I told her it meant he was going to hell for being a deviant. Then she asked what deviant meant. I told her it was someone who goes to Ole Miss.

[Marooned]

I haven't watched Dan Patrick all week but I can guarantee you they are making jokes about it

[Will James]

Add Rick Reilly to the list of people comparing him to Jackie Robinson.

[Ronny]

...a gay NBA player came out of the closet, ESPN is covering it, & you are having a meltdown over it.

Professional women's basketball is full of lesbians. (And women's college softball too for that matter).

Yet where has been your outrage over those homosexuals?

In your worldview, that's a whole bunch of women headed for the pits of hell. Think of all the hell-bound females playing softball in the SEC currently. Where is your church's outreach to these wrenched souls?

My final advice on this topic (since I'm sick of talking about this & realize somebody like you can not be reasoned with) is go read Luke 6:37 & take a chill pill.

You know how much a gay NBA player is going to affect you personally going forward? 0%.

[BeastMan]

I usually have ESPN radio on in car when I pick my elementary school kids up. I had to turn it off because my 8yr old wanted to know what "gay" meant. I told her it meant he was going to hell for being a deviant. Then she asked what deviant meant. I told her it was someone who goes to Ole Miss.

Good work

[fishwater99]

Chris Broussard said a few things, that I agree with....

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ba...221941033.html



"I'm a Christian. I don't agree with homosexuality. I think it's a sin, as I think all sex outside of marriage between a man and a woman is. [ESPN's] L.Z. [Granderson] knows that. He and I have played on basketball teams together for several years. We've gone out, had lunch together, we've had good conversations, good laughs together. He knows where I stand and I know where he stands. I don't criticize him, he doesn't criticize me, and call me a bigot, call me ignorant, call me intolerant.

"In talking to some people around the league, there's a lot Christians in the NBA and just because they disagree with that lifestyle, they don't want to be called bigoted and intolerant and things like that. That's what LZ was getting at. Just like I may tolerate someone whose lifestyle I disagree with, he can tolerate my beliefs. He disagrees with my beliefs and my lifestyle but true tolerance and acceptance is being able to handle that as mature adults and not criticize each other and call each other names.

"... Personally, I don't believe that you can live an openly homosexual lifestyle or an openly premarital sex between heterosexuals, if you're openly living that type of lifestyle, then the Bible says you know them by their fruits, it says that's a sin. If you're openly living in unrepentant sin, whatever it may be, not just homosexuality, adultery, fornication, premarital sex between heterosexuals, whatever it may be, I believe that's walking in open rebellion to God and to Jesus Christ. I would not characterize that person as a Christian because I do not think the Bible would characterize them as a Christian."

[Will James]

Yet where has been your outrage over those homosexuals?


Nowhere. Thats the point dunce, it's a non story. The media is doing this to "fight against intolerance" that's not there. Just more liberals in a circle patting each other's back. Like when a mob of liberal students shout down a conservative speaker and then self congratulate.

[msstate7]

...a gay NBA player came out of the closet, ESPN is covering it, & you are having a meltdown over it.

Professional women's basketball is full of lesbians. (And women's college softball too for that matter).

Yet where has been your outrage over those homosexuals?

In your worldview, that's a whole bunch of women headed for the pits of hell. Think of all the hell-bound females playing softball in the SEC currently. Where is your church's outreach to these wrenched souls?

My final advice on this topic (since I'm sick of talking about this & realize somebody like you can not be reasoned with) is go read Luke 6:37 & take a chill pill.

You know how much a gay NBA player is going to affect you personally going forward? 0%.

My problem isn't that he's gay, but that it's being treated like its the greatest thing ever. Will he win a Nobel peace prize bc he likes dick?

[mparkerfd20]

read Luke 6:37

Same passage is in Matthew 7. I take this guy's approach.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5uWyENNEC40

And also from his full text sermon here: http://www.gty.org/resources/sermons/2250

[Marooned]

If he wants to come out, fine. But for the "Worldwide leader in Sports" to continuously refer to me as ingnorant for not gushing with gayness over it, running to the nearest piercing place to have my junk pierced then going to a gay bar and cock gobbling in celebration is complete bullshit.

But ESPN is treating this dilwonk like the love child of Barack Obama and Hiliary Clinton. ANd them telling me I am wrong for not sharing in the gayness.

Maybe you have tendancies and I hit a nerve but hating gays is as American as shitty baseball and apple pie. You best make sure you know what side you are on.

[TopDog58]

Calm down, Rush.

[Esmerelda Villalobos]

all the mental midgets reactions on the message boards today of him coming out is pretty much why it is important. All these threads confirm that.

[Esmerelda Villalobos]

If he wants to come out, fine. But for the "Worldwide leader in Sports" to continuously refer to me as ingnorant for not gushing with gayness over it, running to the nearest piercing place to have my junk pierced then going to a gay bar and cock gobbling in celebration is complete bullshit.

But ESPN is treating this dilwonk like the love child of Barack Obama and Hiliary Clinton. ANd them telling me I am wrong for not sharing in the gayness.

Maybe you have tendancies and I hit a nerve but hating gays is as American as shitty baseball and apple pie. You best make sure you know what side you are on.

sad

[CadaverDawg]

all the mental midgets reactions on the message boards today of him coming out is pretty much why it is important. All these threads confirm that.

So if those that don't care to be flooded with this guys sexuality are "mental midgets"....what are people that feel the need to go to sports illustrated to reveal their sexuality? Attention whores?

Get over yourselves, and quit acting like your sexuality makes you special. Nobody cares who you sleep with. That is, until the media starts acting like it's the return of Christ. Then we get pissed because it definitely does not deserve praise.

That being said, I definitely think a couple people in this thread may have taken it a step further than I would....but they also don't have a man and woman embracing as an avatar as if to make a spectacle of their sexuality either. So I can see both sides. I just don't like the media trying to convince society that we should all embrace and praise this guy for being gay. No, we shouldn't....especially those of us that think it is wrong. I have nothing against Collins, and I have nothing against his choice to be gay....but I do have a problem with being force fed this "he's gay, let's praise him" mentality.

[Esmerelda Villalobos]

I dont think they are trying to convince you to embrace and praise....I think they are trying to make people tolerant. Tolerant of something that others are born with. Again, this thread proves why they have to "shove" it downs the throats of some. To the majority of america, yes, they couldnt care less.

[CadaverDawg]

I dont think they are trying to convince you to embrace and praise....I think they are trying to make people tolerant. Tolerant of something that others are born with. Again, this thread proves why they have to "shove" it downs the throats of some. To the majority of america, yes, they couldnt care less.

What proves that? I also don't want the fact that someone wants to be tatted and pierced shoved down my throat, but does that mean as a society we need to have tattoos and piercings all over the media? You really need to step back and see what the argument is here....it's not the guys sexuality (for the majority of us), it's the fact that the media is making him out to be a hero because he's gay. He is not special.

For all we know, there could be a gay gang bang after every NBA game in the locker room. Why do we need to know that? It doesn't change the sport. It is more about gay people gaining attention than anything. Why do u feel the need to tell everyone you're gay? Nobody cares....and the ones that do, probably would rather not know. So again, why broadcast it if not for attention?

ETA: And I'm sorry, but I don't believe anybody is born gay. You're entitled to your opinion though.

[Will James]

I dont think they are trying to convince you to embrace and praise....

Bulllllllllllllllllllllllll Shittttttttttttttttttttttttttt

[Esmerelda Villalobos]

What proves that? I also don't want the fact that someone wants to be tatted and pierced shoved down my throat, but does that mean as a society we need to have tattoos and piercings all over the media? You really need to step back and see what the argument is here....it's not the guys sexuality (for the majority of us), it's the fact that the media is making him out to be a hero because he's gay. He is not special.

For all we know, there could be a gay gang bang after every NBA game in the locker room. Why do we need to know that? It doesn't change the sport. It is more about gay people gaining attention than anything. Why do u feel the need to tell everyone you're gay? Nobody cares....and the ones that do, probably would rather not know. So again, why broadcast it if not for attention?

ETA: And I'm sorry, but I don't believe anybody is born gay. You're entitled to your opinion though.

If you dont believe that then nobody that believes that they are born that way can rationally discuss it with you. Either way. That is as black and white as it gets. If you dont believe they are born that way then yes, you are correct. I would probably be aggravated that it was being "pushed down" my throat as well.

I think, for the record, that it is a great thing. I also cannot WAIT until the day when someone announces and nobody gives a shit. Believe me....

[CadaverDawg]

If you dont believe that then nobody that believes that they are born that way can rationally discuss it with you. Either way. That is as black and white as it gets. If you dont believe they are born that way then yes, you are correct. I would probably be aggravated that it was being "pushed down" my throat as well.

I think, for the record, that it is a great thing. I also cannot WAIT until the day when someone announces and nobody gives a shit. Believe me....

So because I think nobody is born gay I can't discuss it rationally? Could I not say the same exact thing about you since you DO think people can be born gay? You are being very condescending in my opinion.

And another thing, if you TRULY "can't wait until the day someone announces and nobody gives a shit", then here's an idea....Quit Announcing It. Why do gay people feel the need to have an "announcement"? Quit acting like you're special because you're gay. We don't announce we're straight, so if you want "Equal" like you all say you do, then quit having "announcements". Announcements and "coming out" make you unequal because you think you're special and deserve attention.

You're not announcing you're running for office...you're announcing that you like guys. No need for an announcement.

[Esmerelda Villalobos]

So because I think nobody is born gay I can't discuss it rationally? Could I not say the same exact thing about you since you DO think people can be born gay? You are being very condescending in my opinion.

And another thing, if you TRULY "can't wait until the day someone announces and nobody gives a shit", then here's an idea....Quit Announcing It. Why do gay people feel the need to have an "announcement"? Quit acting like you're special because you're gay. We don't announce we're straight, so if you want "Equal" like you all say you do, then quit having "announcements". Announcements and "coming out" make you unequal because you think you're special and deserve attention.

No I meant it that way. Someone like me cannot discuss it with you because it is like talking to a brick wall. We are both ignorant in each others mind (what I meant).

They announce because they are still discreminated against. That is why. There will always be some sort of gay rights I imagine. Much like that civil rights still losely go on (Rooney Rule, no matter how anyone feels about it). Obviously, shit has changed the past 50 years but there are still pockets of it. I imagine that gays will face the same thing in 50 years.

[Political Hack]

surmbudy sade ghey on the television set. I'm tired of the topic, because it shouldn't be a topic in this day and age. I thought we've moved past sexual orientation being a ground breaking story.

Talk about sports because you're a sports channel. That, I can agree with. ESPN's commentary on political and religious topics should be met with condemnation from the fans, regardless of their position.

[CadaverDawg]

No I meant it that way. Someone like me cannot discuss it with you because it is like talking to a brick wall. We are both ignorant in each others mind (what I meant).

They announce because they are still discreminated against. That is why. There will always be some sort of gay rights I imagine. Much like that civil rights still losely go on (Rooney Rule, no matter how anyone feels about it). Obviously, shit has changed the past 50 years but there are still pockets of it. I imagine that gays will face the same thing in 50 years.

Will face what? A drooling President and Media circus because they are so special? Gays are not nearly as discriminated against as gays want to act like they are.

Again, why does the gay community think that society wants to know what they put their penis in? Why announce it? Do you think you're special? Do you want attention? Why?

And I also think the Rooney Rule is dumb. Not because I dislike black people or black coaches....but because I think they are trying to prevent discrimination with discrimination. Kind of like having BET and Black College Associations, etc. how is having "black exclusive" groups and committees making things "equal". Different topic for a different day though.

But the same can be said for the gay media attention. By acting like gays are special and giving their "announcement" extra attention, you are not achieving the "Equality" that they all say they want. Truth is, those that go on Sports Illustrated aren't doing it to be equal, they're doing it to gain attention for themselves or the gay community in my opinion. Doesn't sound too "equal" to me.

ETA: if you want "equal", then do what everybody else in America does and keep what happens in your private life to yourself....THAT would be "equal"

[Will James]

I am a short white male. I am constantly discriminated against in the NBA. While 73% of the country I only make up 18% of the NBA.

Tomorrow I will hold a press conference at my house announcing that I am white. If ESPN doesn't show up, I'll know its their liberalism which is why this is a story.

[Esmerelda Villalobos]

I am a short white male. I am constantly discriminated against in the NBA. While 73% of the country I only make up 18% of the NBA.

Tomorrow I will hold a press conference at my house announcing that I am white. If ESPN doesn't show up, I'll know its their liberalism which is why this is a story.

that is because the best person for the job won out. You should appreciate that.

[CadaverDawg]

that is because the best person for the job won out. You should appreciate that.

Doesn't that go against your Rooney Rule though?

[Bo Darville]

If you dont believe that then nobody that believes that they are born that way can rationally discuss it with you. Either way. That is as black and white as it gets. If you dont believe they are born that way then yes, you are correct. I would probably be aggravated that it was being "pushed down" my throat as well.

I think, for the record, that it is a great thing. I also cannot WAIT until the day when someone announces and nobody gives a shit. Believe me....


Why do you think they were born that way? Because you have a coworker who is gay 4 offices down the hall? A friend who is gay?

I think it is a choice and I know a little something about gays. More than just having an acquaintance. My folks weren't rich growing up and I shared a bedroom with my brother. We had bunk beds. A 10'x12' bedroom shared for 18 years. He is gay and HIV positive. I don't approve of his lifestyle and he knows it. I love him to death, but I think he is wrong. If I cheated on my wife, stole something, or killed someone, he would still love me. But he wouldn't approve. He wouldn't say "be proud for cheating on your wife. You've done nothing wrong. You didn't make that choice". 99% of y'all spouting off don't have a clue.

[CadaverDawg]

Why do you think they were born that way? Because you have a coworker who is gay 4 offices down the hall? A friend who is gay?

I think it is a choice and I know a little something about gays. More than just having an acquaintance. My folks weren't rich growing up and I shared a bedroom with my brother. We had bunk beds. A 10'x12' bedroom shared for 18 years. He is gay and HIV positive. I don't approve of his lifestyle and he knows it. I love him to death, but I think he is wrong. If I cheated on my wife, stole something, or killed someone, he would still love me. But he wouldn't approve. He wouldn't say "be proud for cheating on your wife. You've done nothing wrong. You didn't make that choice". 99% of y'all spouting off don't have a clue.

Well said. I agree completely.

[Bo Darville]

Discriminated against my ass. Tiger Woods cheated on his wife and lost sponsors. He was raked over the coals on TV. However, Collins is applauded, patted on the back, and will gain sponsors. Why wasn't Tiger put on a pedestal for his mistake like Collins? Because homosexuality is the one sin that we are all supposed to accept now.

[Esmerelda Villalobos]

Doesn't that go against your Rooney Rule though?

I dont agree with the Rooney Rule but I understand it.

[Esmerelda Villalobos]

Why do you think they were born that way? Because you have a coworker who is gay 4 offices down the hall? A friend who is gay?

I think it is a choice and I know a little something about gays. More than just having an acquaintance. My folks weren't rich growing up and I shared a bedroom with my brother. We had bunk beds. A 10'x12' bedroom shared for 18 years. He is gay and HIV positive. I don't approve of his lifestyle and he knows it. I love him to death, but I think he is wrong. If I cheated on my wife, stole something, or killed someone, he would still love me. But he wouldn't approve. He wouldn't say "be proud for cheating on your wife. You've done nothing wrong. You didn't make that choice". 99% of y'all spouting off don't have a clue.

Im sorry to hear your brother has aids. Im sure a lot of us have gay family members, myself included. They are born gay. If you dont believe that, ok. I dont have a problem with that.

[Esmerelda Villalobos]

Discriminated against my ass. Tiger Woods cheated on his wife and lost sponsors. He was raked over the coals on TV. However, Collins is applauded, patted on the back, and will gain sponsors. Why wasn't Tiger put on a pedestal for his mistake like Collins? Because homosexuality is the one sin that we are all supposed to accept now.

because it isnt a mistake to be gay and if you cannot see the difference between Tiger Woods and Jason, I cannot help you.

[CadaverDawg]

Im sorry to hear your brother has aids. Im sure a lot of us have gay family members, myself included. They are born gay. If you dont believe that, ok. I dont have a problem with that.

Not to get too deep into religion, but does this mean that you don't believe in the teachings of the Bible? That's your choice, but I'm just curious.

Because how do you explain Adam and Eve vs Adam and Adam....and how do you explain God creating men wi penises and women with ******s? Not trying to sound elementary, but in my opinion it's pretty easy and elementary to explain. Would God not have created us with both a penis and a ****** if he meant for us to choose which sex we marry and have sex with? What about reproduction? How does the gay community explain that?

Again, not trying to judge...I seriously want to know how you could possibly think it is not against what God wants us to do.

[Bo Darville]

Im sorry to hear your brother has aids. Im sure a lot of us have gay family members, myself included. They are born gay. If you dont believe that, ok. I dont have a problem with that.

HIV positive, not aids. There is a difference.

Let's assume you are correct about being born gay. Then Tiger Woods was born heterosexual. Why is he chastised for doing what he was born to do? The reason is that we still choose to do what we do. I love a ****** as much as anybody around, but I make the choice to pursue it or not. I'm married, so I go against my heterosexual screw-everybody nature and decline to pursue the millions of women in the US and just stick to the one ****** at my house. My choice.

[Esmerelda Villalobos]

Not to get too deep into religion, but does this mean that you don't believe in the teachings of the Bible? That's your choice, but I'm just curious.

Because how do you explain Adam and Eve vs Adam and Adam....and how do you explain God creating men wi penises and women with ******s? Not trying to sound elementary, but in my opinion it's pretty easy and elementary to explain. Would God not have created us with both a penis and a ****** if he meant for us to choose which sex we marry and have sex with? What about reproduction? How does the gay community explain that?

Again, not trying to judge...I seriously want to know how you could possibly think it is not against what God wants us to do.

short answer, no I do not. That is for the political board.

[Esmerelda Villalobos]

HIV positive, not aids. There is a difference.

Let's assume you are correct about being born gay. Then Tiger Woods was born heterosexual. Why is he chastised for doing what he was born to do? The reason is that we still choose to do what we do. I love a ****** as much as anybody around, but I make the choice to pursue it or not. I'm married, so I go against my heterosexual screw-everybody nature and decline to pursue the millions of women in the US and just stick to the one ****** at my house. My choice.

I am also a fan of the ******. Love it very much. I have one that I play with and only one, by choice. I was born attracted to ******. As far as Tiger Woods goes, it isnt illegal what he did. Sure, there are financial consequences but it isnt illegal. The gubmint made the financial part of that contract. As far as him cheating on his wife....in my eyes, makes him a piece of shit. Not piece of shit but he made a mistake in my eyes. I dont believe Tiger is a piece of shit, although he is a lousy tipper. Does that mean I am right? No. It is just my opinion.

[CadaverDawg]

short answer, no I do not. That is for the political board.

Well then there's your reason that we can't see eye to eye on it.

[Hump4Hoops]

It continues to disgust me how many openly proud bigots we apparently have in our midst. I will never again criticize ole miss as harboring racists and bigots, we have plenty.

[angusyoung]

Not to get too deep into religion, but does this mean that you don't believe in the teachings of the Bible? That's your choice, but I'm just curious.

Because how do you explain Adam and Eve vs Adam and Adam....and how do you explain God creating men wi penises and women with ******s? Not trying to sound elementary, but in my opinion it's pretty easy and elementary to explain. Would God not have created us with both a penis and a ****** if he meant for us to choose which sex we marry and have sex with? What about reproduction? How does the gay community explain that?

Again, not trying to judge...I seriously want to know how you could possibly think it is not against what God wants us to do.

you have gone above and beyond to let everyone know your feelings on this issue. we understand where you stand on the issue. they biggest problem with they way you are posing your argument is that you are trying to use anatomy to determine sexuality. most people are born heterosexual similar to the way most people are born with 5 fingers on each hand, 2 ears, 2 eyes, etc etc. However, anatomical birth abnormalities occur every day in every hospital on the earth and you dont think twice about it. a child born with 6 fingers, downs syndrome, cleft palate, or autism doesnt even hit your radar but one that has an abnormal sexuality is all of the sudden a cock sucking *** by choice.

[CadaverDawg]

you have gone above and beyond to let everyone know your feelings on this issue. we understand where you stand on the issue. they biggest problem with they way you are posing your argument is that you are trying to use anatomy to determine sexuality. most people are born heterosexual similar to the way most people are born with 5 fingers on each hand, 2 ears, 2 eyes, etc etc. However, anatomical birth abnormalities occur every day in every hospital on the earth and you dont think twice about it. a child born with 6 fingers, downs syndrome, cleft palate, or autism doesnt even hit your radar but one that has an abnormal sexuality is all of the sudden a cock sucking *** by choice.

Umm....no. If you took that from anything I said then you obviously just have an agenda. I completely understand birth defects. I'm not talking about birth defects. And I also used anatomy as a very small addition to my position. Don't try to turn my point of view into something it's not.

Like I said 100 times...if you want to be gay that's fine. Just don't try to force me to praise someone for it when in my beliefs I think it's wrong. He brought up up that he thinks people are born that way, and that's where the discussion took a turn towards that.

I respect Ennis and I feel like we are having a discussion...I'm not saying I'm right, I'm saying what I believe in. Feel free to join in and discuss, or take your offended ass elsewhere. If you take offense to my views on it, that's your problem. I have not said I hate people for being gay. I just disagree wi it. Quit taking shit so personally or else join in the discussion and explain yourself.

And by the way, please find where I said anything close to "cocksucking ***". You completely made that up. But by comparing being gay to having a birth defect, you basically just made a negative comment towards gays yourself....so I hope you're happy. Dipshit. Get a clue.

[CadaverDawg]

you have gone above and beyond to let everyone know your feelings on this issue. we understand where you stand on the issue. they biggest problem with they way you are posing your argument is that you are trying to use anatomy to determine sexuality. most people are born heterosexual similar to the way most people are born with 5 fingers on each hand, 2 ears, 2 eyes, etc etc. However, anatomical birth abnormalities occur every day in every hospital on the earth and you dont think twice about it. a child born with 6 fingers, downs syndrome, cleft palate, or autism doesnt even hit your radar but one that has an abnormal sexuality is all of the sudden a cock sucking *** by choice.

And my last comment is in regards to the point you just proved. It's interesting how upset some of you get over a few posts disagreeing with your beliefs on a message board....yet you tell us that we should not be upset that every channel on our TV or radio is forcing the opposite views down our throats. Anyone else find that odd?

Sounds like I'm far more "tolerant" of your beliefs and opinions, than you are of mine. Because my only complaint is with the media...not what you do in your sexual life.

[M.Fillmore]

The one thing that I notice on this thread is that Enis and Hump offer far more name calling than they offer reasoned points. This is consistent with this issue. The "pro" side states their opinion is fact and open minded while stating that the dissent is ignorant and unreasoned.

[Marooned]

HaHa, never listened a day in my life to him. Maybe you will use that wit to try and convince us in 10 more years that pedophiles are normal and that we should all accept them as normal human beings and that child molestation is a normal thing that shouldn't be discriminated against. Then maybe you can celebrate when NBA players start admitting that they molest children and the sports world openly accepts it and tell me I am ignorant again for finding their behavior vile and disgusting.

[Marooned]

No I meant it that way. Someone like me cannot discuss it with you because it is like talking to a brick wall. We are both ignorant in each others mind (what I meant).

They announce because they are still discreminated against. That is why. There will always be some sort of gay rights I imagine. Much like that civil rights still losely go on (Rooney Rule, no matter how anyone feels about it). Obviously, shit has changed the past 50 years but there are still pockets of it. I imagine that gays will face the same thing in 50 years.



Sooooooo what are you going to think when they kind of figure out sweet cheeks made his announcement as a means to make himself markatable vs being the Rosa Parks of the sporting world? I mean he wasn't burning it up on the court. He was in his last few months of his contract, about to be a free agent. He basically made himself untradeable now as the Lakers wouldn't want it to look like they traded him because he has the gay. And now all the other teams don't want to miss out on all this awesome exposure so they are all begging some of their players to catch the gay now. Or they can bring this kid in. He may have just made himself the most markatable free agent in basketball

[MSUDawg4Life]

The one thing that I notice on this thread is that Enis and Hump offer far more name calling than they offer reasoned points. This is consistent with this issue. The "pro" side states their opinion is fact and open minded while stating that the dissent is ignorant and unreasoned.

And vice versa.

Which is why I hate both parties. Both are full of self-righteous pricks who don't really know anything.

[msstate7]

And vice versa.

Which is why I hate both parties. Both are full of self-righteous pricks who don't really know anything.

Sound a little self-righteous yourself

[Marooned]

because it isnt a mistake to be gay and if you cannot see the difference between Tiger Woods and Jason, I cannot help you.


if being gay were natural we would all be asexual.....

The main purpose for the design of a species is for continued existance. All members of the species that exist outside those rules do so as an obsticle to that design. It's really that simple.

[Hump4Hoops]

The one thing that I notice on this thread is that Enis and Hump offer far more name calling than they offer reasoned points. This is consistent with this issue. The "pro" side states their opinion is fact and open minded while stating that the dissent is ignorant and unreasoned.

I save most of my name calling to try to plug up the damn holding back Will James's ocean of verbal diarrhea.

I call people bigots as a factual term. There are people on this board that are intolerantly devoted to their own opinions and prejudices (ie refuse to see anything outside of the christian world view).

Have you seen the level of homophobia on this board (and sixpack to boot) lately? Lots of good old fashioned hate speech.

[Hump4Hoops]

if being gay were natural we would all be asexual.....

The main purpose for the design of a species is for continued existance. All members of the species that exist outside those rules do so as an obsticle to that design. It's really that simple.

You're correct to a point. Homosexuality is a hindrance to maximum population growth (Although, some members of other species are non-mating as well, such as bee drones). In the grand scale, homosexuality is a small enough % that it makes no difference to our overall population - but at this point, there's more of us around than need to be anyway.

It may not be the most evolutionarily favorable characteristic, but that doesn't mean it's not natural. As mentioned above, all sorts of conditions that are not seen as favorable, and would hinder a person's ability to reproduce, have happened for tens of thousands of years, and will continue to happen.

For those of you with the silly notion that gay is a choice, I wish you were right. Then kids that have become self-hating outcasts for their sexuality could just choose away their troubles instead of facing daily bullying, and sometimes suicide.

[Esmerelda Villalobos]

The one thing that I notice on this thread is that Enis and Hump offer far more name calling than they offer reasoned points. This is consistent with this issue. The "pro" side states their opinion is fact and open minded while stating that the dissent is ignorant and unreasoned.

I named called?

Tolerant? Try skimming the political board where the atheist act like christians and half the christians call us cock sucking fags. One christ like follower even told one of us to go **** our mothers and burn in hell. He immediately followed that with...I read the bible every night.

Fact is, half the board thinks yall are bigots the other half doesnt. That is america. 50/50 on everything.

[Esmerelda Villalobos]

HIV positive, not aids. There is a difference.

Let's assume you are correct about being born gay. Then Tiger Woods was born heterosexual. Why is he chastised for doing what he was born to do? The reason is that we still choose to do what we do. I love a ****** as much as anybody around, but I make the choice to pursue it or not. I'm married, so I go against my heterosexual screw-everybody nature and decline to pursue the millions of women in the US and just stick to the one ****** at my house. My choice.

Just curious Bo. What does your brother say? Does he say he was born gay or chose? Ive never met a gay person that wasnt born gay so Im interested.

Based on your stance, you make it sound like he chose to be gay. Obviously this is a message board and you can say whatever you want and we will never know the difference

[Esmerelda Villalobos]

Well then there's your reason that we can't see eye to eye on it.

Not true. Most of my friends that are christians couldnt care less about marriage and think they are born that way. My girlfriends church actually encourages gay people to come to their church and they do. One gay couple even has a son there. It pissed westboro off so much they picketted one sunday. I actually went to that service. It was 120 degrees that day so the rainbow coalition came out and gave the bigots with signs lemonade so they had something to drink. Ironic, isnt it?

[Bo Darville]

Just curious Bo. What does your brother say? Does he say he was born gay or chose? Ive never met a gay person that wasnt born gay so Im interested.

Based on your stance, you make it sound like he chose to be gay. Obviously this is a message board and you can say whatever you want and we will never know the difference

You've never met a gay person that wasn't born gay? Well I've never met a person in prison who would tell you they were guilty. They are all innocent. Go ask them.

I've known my brother forever. He sure didn't seem gay when he was 5. He still made a choice. AC Green of the Lakers was heterosexual. Why wasn't he out screwing women (he chose to remain a virgin until marriage)? Jason Collins is homosexual. Why was he dating and engaged to a girl for 8 years (he chose to date her)?

I love my brother. I am not a homophobe (I am not afraid of him). I am not a bigot or intolerant. I don't hate him. I do tolerate it. I see him several times a week. My kids go hang out with him. He comes to my house and I go to his. He takes my kids to the movies, etc. I just don't approve of his lifestyle. Just like he wouldn't approve of mine if I was screwing the woman next door. Just like he wouldn't approve of mine if I was drinking and going to strip clubs at 2:00 AM while my wife and kids were at home. Just like he wouldn't approve of mine if I was blowing my paycheck at the casino while my family didn't have money for food.

Saying you don't approve of something doesn't make you a bigot. I don't approve of what the guy in Boston did at the marathon. I don't approve of what Tiger Woods did. That doesn't mean I discriminate against them in any way.

Let me also defend gays as it concerns to being in a locker room. I do hear some pro-athletes say they wouldn't want to share a locker with a gay man. Why not? You are sharing a locker room with Ray Lewis (might have killed someone). You are sharing a locker room with Honey Badger (drugs). You are sharing a locker room with guys who have a mistress at every stop on a road trip. You are sharing a locker room with people who have swindled folks out of money (Deuce McAlister). But now you don't want to share one with a homosexual? That is crazy.

I love gay people. I have nothing against them. I treat them like anybody else and always will. I do not and will not approve of their lifestyle. I do not and will not say that they have done nothing wrong.

[CadaverDawg]

Not true. Most of my friends that are christians couldnt care less about mharriage and think they are born that way. My girlfriends church actually encourages gay people to come to their church and they do. One gay couple even has a son there. It pissed westboro off so much they picketted one sunday. I actually went to that service. It was 120 degrees that day so the rainbow coalition came out and gave the bigots with signs lemonade so they had something to drink. Ironic, isnt it?

Again, youre missing my point. I don't care what anyone chooses to do in their private life. And I dont mind gay people attending my church.

It was wrong of that church to judge them and make it an issue if the gay people were just attending and worshipping like everyone else.

Like I said, I sin and still attend church so why shouldnt gay people be allowed to attend.

Both parties are wrong when they make a spectacle of themselves. I can admit to that....so why cant the gay community?

That church openly judging people, is wrong. And so is every gay person that publicly announces their sexuality to gain attention and make a spectacle of it.

Why can I admit that but you can't?

[CadaverDawg]

You've never met a gay person that wasn't born gay? Well I've never met a person in prison who would tell you they were guilty. They are all innocent. Go ask them.

I've known my brother forever. He sure didn't seem gay when he was 5. He still made a choice. AC Green of the Lakers was heterosexual. Why wasn't he out screwing women (he chose to remain a virgin until marriage)? Jason Collins is homosexual. Why was he dating and engaged to a girl for 8 years (he chose to date her)?

I love my brother. I am not a homophobe (I am not afraid of him). I am not a bigot or intolerant. I don't hate him. I do tolerate it. I see him several times a week. My kids go hang out with him. He comes to my house and I go to his. He takes my kids to the movies, etc. I just don't approve of his lifestyle. Just like he wouldn't approve of mine if I was screwing the woman next door. Just like he wouldn't approve of mine if I was drinking and going to strip clubs at 2:00 AM while my wife and kids were at home. Just like he wouldn't approve of mine if I was blowing my paycheck at the casino while my family didn't have money for food.

Saying you don't approve of something doesn't make you a bigot. I don't approve of what the guy in Boston did at the marathon. I don't approve of what Tiger Woods did. That doesn't mean I discriminate against them in any way.

Let me also defend gays as it concerns to being in a locker room. I do hear some pro-athletes say they wouldn't want to share a locker with a gay man. Why not? You are sharing a locker room with Ray Lewis (might have killed someone). You are sharing a locker room with Honey Badger (drugs). You are sharing a locker room with guys who have a mistress at every stop on a road trip. You are sharing a locker room with people who have swindled folks out of money (Deuce McAlister). But now you don't want to share one with a homosexual? That is crazy.

I love gay people. I have nothing against them. I treat them like anybody else and always will. I do not and will not approve of their lifestyle. I do not and will not say that they have done nothing wrong.

Again....spot on, Bo

[Bo Darville]

My girlfriends church actually encourages gay people to come to their church and they do.

Any church should. Gays should definitely be encouraged to come to church and be welcomed. When you tell gays they can't come to church, then you must also keep out everybody else. If churches only let perfect people attend, attendance would be ZERO.

I would never go to a church who discourages gays from coming. I would also never go to a church who says that homosexuality is okay. I would never go to a church that discourages divorcees, adulterers, cheaters, thieves, murderers, coveters, etc. from coming. I would also never go to a church that says there is nothing wrong with divorce, adultery, cheating, stealing, murdering, coveting, etc. And yes, I probably fit in a few of those categories.

[Interpolation_Dawg_EX]

Ive never met a gay person that wasnt born gay so Im interested.
What's your sample size of gays that you've met? Using your theory, would you say that people who commit violent crimes are born that way?

[Esmerelda Villalobos]

You've never met a gay person that wasn't born gay? Well I've never met a person in prison who would tell you they were guilty. They are all innocent. Go ask them.

I've known my brother forever. He sure didn't seem gay when he was 5. He still made a choice. AC Green of the Lakers was heterosexual. Why wasn't he out screwing women (he chose to remain a virgin until marriage)? Jason Collins is homosexual. Why was he dating and engaged to a girl for 8 years (he chose to date her)?

I love my brother. I am not a homophobe (I am not afraid of him). I am not a bigot or intolerant. I don't hate him. I do tolerate it. I see him several times a week. My kids go hang out with him. He comes to my house and I go to his. He takes my kids to the movies, etc. I just don't approve of his lifestyle. Just like he wouldn't approve of mine if I was screwing the woman next door. Just like he wouldn't approve of mine if I was drinking and going to strip clubs at 2:00 AM while my wife and kids were at home. Just like he wouldn't approve of mine if I was blowing my paycheck at the casino while my family didn't have money for food.

Saying you don't approve of something doesn't make you a bigot. I don't approve of what the guy in Boston did at the marathon. I don't approve of what Tiger Woods did. That doesn't mean I discriminate against them in any way.

Let me also defend gays as it concerns to being in a locker room. I do hear some pro-athletes say they wouldn't want to share a locker with a gay man. Why not? You are sharing a locker room with Ray Lewis (might have killed someone). You are sharing a locker room with Honey Badger (drugs). You are sharing a locker room with guys who have a mistress at every stop on a road trip. You are sharing a locker room with people who have swindled folks out of money (Deuce McAlister). But now you don't want to share one with a homosexual? That is crazy.

I love gay people. I have nothing against them. I treat them like anybody else and always will. I do not and will not approve of their lifestyle. I do not and will not say that they have done nothing wrong.

what does your brother say? Would you brother say he was born gay or not? Answer it.

No, Ive never met a gay person that wasnt born gay. Everyone of them has told me they were born that way. Ive never actually heard a gay person say they chose gayness.

I didnt read the rest of what you wrote because it didnt have anything to do with what I asked.

[Esmerelda Villalobos]

Again, youre missing my point. I don't care what anyone chooses to do in their private life. And I dont mind gay people attending my church.

It was wrong of that church to judge them and make it an issue if the gay people were just attending and worshipping like everyone else.

Like I said, I sin and still attend church so why shouldnt gay people be allowed to attend.

Both parties are wrong when they make a spectacle of themselves. I can admit to that....so why cant the gay community?

That church openly judging people, is wrong. And so is every gay person that publicly announces their sexuality to gain attention and make a spectacle of it.

Why can I admit that but you can't?

because, I dont believe being gay is wrong.

[Esmerelda Villalobos]

What's your sample size of gays that you've met? Using your theory, would you say that people who commit violent crimes are born that way?

I probably have a dozen gay friends now. Over the years, probably close interaction with 50 or so.

[Interpolation_Dawg_EX]

Not true. Most of my friends that are christians couldnt care less about marriage and think they are born that way. My girlfriends church actually encourages gay people to come to their church and they do. One gay couple even has a son there. It pissed westboro off so much they picketted one sunday. I actually went to that service. It was 120 degrees that day so the rainbow coalition came out and gave the bigots with signs lemonade so they had something to drink. Ironic, isnt it?
What's ironic is that Tebow gets criticized for being "too" Christian and is thought to be a distraction, while Collins is being deemed a hero and gets calls from the president.

[Hump4Hoops]

What's ironic is that Tebow gets criticized for being "too" Christian and is thought to be a distraction, while Collins is being deemed a hero and gets calls from the president.

What Tebow does isn't brave. He isn't the first. He's in the majority. He just does it louder than everyone else.

[CadaverDawg]

because, I dont believe being gay is wrong.

You're just ignoring valid points now to try and fit your views.

Example: I dont think being straight is wrong...but why would I announce it publicly and expect people to care? That's my business, and announcing it to the world is pointless unless I wanted to get attention.

What does right or wrong have to do with being an attention whore?

[Esmerelda Villalobos]

You're just ignoring valid points now to try and fit your views.

Example: I dont think being straight is wrong...but why would I announce it publicly and expect people to care? That's my business, and announcing it to the world is pointless unless I wanted to get attention.

there really is no point in debating this anymore, no? I mean, it is just circles and circles and Im sure the rest of the board is tired of it. You think your way and I will do mine. Id rather have this on the political board anyway.

For the record though, I dont think them coming out and making a spectacle about it is wrong. The media is making a spectacle. All a guy did was be the first openly gay NBA player. As for why they have to do it, again, this thread is proof. Again, when you are dead and gone this wont be an issue but it is today.

[M.Fillmore]

What Tebow does isn't brave. He isn't the first. He's in the majority. He just does it louder than everyone else.

Tebow may in the majority of Americans but I hope you are not coming on here claiming that Tebow supporters are in the majority of reporters. Then again I remember that on 6pack you once argued that Tebow wasn't a very good college player but his notoriety come from his Christian stance. Yeah, like Tebow was the first sophomore Christian football player so they gave him the Heisman trophy as a result of his religious views.

[fishwater99]

I dont think they are trying to convince you to embrace and praise....I think they are trying to make people tolerant. Tolerant of something that others are born with. Again, this thread proves why they have to "shove" it downs the throats of some. To the majority of america, yes, they couldnt care less.

You can't make people tolerant of something.. Either they are tolerant or they are not.

As a Christian I believe in tolerance of all people. I must love others as Christ loved me, despite their sins, just as Christ loves me despite my sins..
It is not my job to judge others for their own sins.

"You, then, why do you judge your brother or sister? Or why do you treat them with contempt? For we will all stand before God's judgment seat." Romans 14:10
"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?" Luke 6:41
"When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, "Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stoneat her." John 8:7

Then there is this..

"Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality" 1 Corinthians 6:9

[M.Fillmore]

I didnt read the rest of what you wrote because it didnt have anything to do with what I asked.

So you didn't read his post but you are ready to refute it. Riiiiiiiiiight.

BTW, I have read many lesbians who claim their orientation was most definitely a choice. In fact, I read debates in the 1990's between lesbians and gays where the lesbians argued that there was no causal inheritance but the homosexual orientation is always a choice. The gays argued that the lesbians should join them because it would be easier to make political gains when arguing the point based on genetics.

[CadaverDawg]

Funny how you want to end the discussion as soon as youre unable to answer valid questions.

You're full of shit about him "not making a spectacle", and you know it. Did SI go around asking every NBA player if they were gay until they stumbled across Collins? No. He Went To Them. Did they hold a gun to his head? No. Then why did he do it? Attention and to make a spectacle. There's no other answer bc he wasn't forced.

So again, why do gays feel the need to gain attention and make a spectacle of their sexuality? Why cant u answer that?

[Esmerelda Villalobos]

You can't make people tolerant of something.. Either they are tolerant or they are not.

As a Christian I believe in tolerance of all people. I must love others as Christ loved me, despite their sins, just as Christ loves me despite my sins..
It is not my job to judge others for their own sins.

"You, then, why do you judge your brother or sister? Or why do you treat them with contempt? For we will all stand before God's judgment seat." Romans 14:10
"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?" Luke 6:41
"When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, "Let any one of you who is without sin be the first to throw a stoneat her." John 8:7

Then there is this..

"Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality" 1 Corinthians 6:9

my problem is the picking a chosing. Crustaceans are mentioned 4 more times as an abomonation in the bible yet my church had crawfish / shrimp boils regularly.

[Bo Darville]

because, I dont believe being gay is wrong.

This is the bottom line and why not everybody will always agree. Folks will just have to agree to disagree. Not everybody thinks that stealing is wrong. Not everybody thinks that drugs are bad. Not everybody thinks that being gay is wrong. You won't convince the KKK that lynching a black is wrong. Not everybody thinks that cheating on your spouse is wrong.

[Esmerelda Villalobos]

Funny how you want to end the discussion as soon as youre unable to answer valid questions.

You're full of shit about him "not making a spectacle", and you know it. Did SI go around asking every NBA player if they were gay until they stumbled across Collins? No. He Went To Them. Did they hold a gun to his head? No. Then why did he do it? Attention and to make a spectacle. There's no other answer bc he wasn't forced.

So again, why do gays feel the need to gain attention and make a spectacle of their sexuality? Why cant u answer that?

Valid answer? There is no point in me giving a long, drawn out answer because it wont matter to you. Just like you can quote all the bible versus you want and that means jack shit to me.

Ive answered it a dozen times anyway.

[Esmerelda Villalobos]

This is the bottom line and why not everybody will always agree. Folks will just have to agree to disagree. Not everybody thinks that stealing is wrong. Not everybody thinks that drugs are bad. Not everybody thinks that being gay is wrong. You won't convince the KKK that lynching a black is wrong. Not everybody thinks that cheating on your spouse is wrong.

what do all those have in common (minus adultery) other than being gay? They are illegal and hurt someone else. Being gay is neither.

[CadaverDawg]

Valid answer? There is no point in me giving a long, drawn out answer because it wont matter to you. Just like you can quote all the bible versus you want and that means jack shit to me.

Ive answered it a dozen times anyway.

Dodging my question again bc you know that's the only possible reason he went to SI to announce it.

And I haven't posted a single bible verse.

[CadaverDawg]

what do all those have in common (minus adultery) other than being gay? They are illegal and hurt someone else. Being gay is neither.

They're sins

[Esmerelda Villalobos]

Dodging my question again bc you know that's the only possible reason he went to SI to announce it.

And I haven't posted a single bible verse.

Answer: He went to SI because nobody else had done it. He probably felt morally obligated to do it in his own mind because deep down, it will probably help some 13 year old kid or something. He felt by shedding light and coming out in a profession that it is tabboo too, that he could help break down walls so that people are more tolerant of that lifestyle. It isnt a tolerant lifestyle in the black community. He probably thought, I can get this out of the way so hopefully we can get past it. Im at the end of my career and I was scared to do it 5 years ago for fear of intolerance. He also probably came out, like all do, to lift the 800 pound gorilla burden off their shoulder that they carry around by constantly lying to themselves and family members. He did it so that other athletes that are gay in the NBA, NFL and MLB (there are a ton) would feel better about coming out without bigotry in the future. He did it so that eventually, nobody will have to come out. He did it so that one day, people wont see them as freaks but just normal citizens who happen to like the same sex. They are the same as you, just sexually different.

Again, you may disagree with everything I wrote. I believe that is why he came out.

[Esmerelda Villalobos]

Bo, will you answer about your brother. Again, you can say anything you want but I would like an honest answer on what he would say. It doesnt make me right or you wrong. Im honestly curious.

[CadaverDawg]

So you agree with me and dont even realize it!

Ennis, how is your post different than "to get attention and make a spectacle of his sexuality"?

He has no idea what effects it could have on other people...just speculation. So he did it to gain attention for himself and the gay community. A spectacle.

So those of us that said that from the start are 100% correct based on your post.

[Esmerelda Villalobos]

So you agree with me and dont even realize it!

Ennis, how is your post different than "to get attention and make a spectacle of his sexuality"?

He has no idea what effects it could have on other people...just speculation. So he did it to gain attention for himself and the gay community. A spectacle.

So those of us that said that from the start are 100% correct based on your post.

If you interpret that way, I guess so. He isnt making a "spectacle" of himself. However, he did it to gain attention of the gay community, for sure. I dont think he necessarily wants it for himself. Who would want to be a martyr like that? Has to be a major headache. His life has changed forever now, good or bad, that's for sure.

[M.Fillmore]

Hey fishwater, it is nifty how you pull individual texts from context to argue a position that the church has opposed for 2,000 years.
Of course, God is the ultimate judge of souls. But the Bible does not teach that people are to be tolerant of what Bible teaches as wrong and just sit back and wait for God to handle the final arbitration at death.

Fish, I will give you credit for interjecting the Bible as a point of reference. To argue that truth is found among ourselves and not from outside the universe is to devolve the whole matter into a power play, as in "He who has the gold, makes the rules." To be sure, there will be some who will wrongly use the Bible as their own tool in a power play, however the Biblical teachings should be used to be a check to keep people from using it so and to hold to the transcendent truth, including moral absolutes. Many people want to dismiss the Bible as a reference point in arguments. You know, the old argument of "Jefferson picked as chose what he liked in the Bible." Yet Jefferson still used the Bible as a reference point. So Fish, I sincerely applaud you for not introducing a reference that has been used throughout Western Civilization.

In a similar vein, the Constitution (mutable as it is), is intended as a check to keep the majority from passing laws to oppress the minority. The problem is the Constitution can be overtly changed by amendment, or still changed by interpretation of case law (i.e. Ruth Ginsberg's statements that while the ERA didn't pass, judges successfully accomplished ERA anyway by using case law to change the interpretation of the Constitution to give then what they wanted all along). Thankfully, God is immutable, despite the claims of Process Theology.

I'll have to beg off this debate for now. It is 9:50 and I have a good 12 hours of work in front of me today. Adios.

[Esmerelda Villalobos]

Jefferson had his own bible that took out everything jesus did, including all his miracles and he didnt believe jesus was divine. It is called the Jefferson Bible. He wasnt a follower of Christ, he was a follower of the bible. FYI.

Haha. Pretty impressive that 5 pages went from Jason to Jefferson. Well done team.

[fishwater99]

my problem is the picking a chosing. Crustaceans are mentioned 4 more times as an abomonation in the bible yet my church had crawfish / shrimp boils regularly.

I am not picking and choosing, in the New Testament and with the coming Jesus makes all meat clean.


Do you not understand that whatever goes into the man from outside cannot defile him, because it does not go into his heart, but into his stomach, and is eliminated?” (Thus He declared all foods clean.) Mark 7:18-19

9On the next day, as they were on their way and approaching the city, Peter went up on the housetop about the sixth hour to pray.10But he became hungry and was desiring to eat; but while they were making preparations, he fell into a trance;11and he saw the sky opened up, and an object like a great sheet coming down, lowered by four corners to the ground,12and there were in it all kinds of four-footed animals and crawling creatures of the earth and birds of the air.13A voice came to him, “Get up, Peter, kill and eat!”14But Peter said, “By no means, Lord, for I have never eaten anything unholy and unclean.”15Again a voice came to him a second time, “What God has cleansed, no longer consider unholy.” Acts 10:9-15

[Esmerelda Villalobos]

edit - nvm

that will start another 5 pages that should be on politcal board

[Bo Darville]

It is not something he and I have talked in depth about. He generally says that he feels that this (gay) is the way he is, but he understands that he can CHOOSE to follow those feelings or not. He might have the feeling, but the action is something you choose or not. Similar to I think the neighbor is smoking hot and wants to have sex with me, but I can choose to cheat on my wife or not. I have the stirring in the loins, but choose not to go down that road. Life presents lots of choices.

[Esmerelda Villalobos]

It is not something he and I have talked in depth about. He generally says that he feels that this (gay) is the way he is, but he understands that he can CHOOSE to follow those feelings or not. He might have the feeling, but the action is something you choose or not. Similar to I think the neighbor is smoking hot and wants to have sex with me, but I can choose to cheat on my wife or not. I have the stirring in the loins, but choose not to go down that road. Life presents lots of choices.

So your brother feels he was born gay. Thanks.

[Interpolation_Dawg_EX]

He just does it louder than everyone else.
Really? I guess you've never seen a Ray Lewis interview...

[Interpolation_Dawg_EX]

If you interpret that way, I guess so. He isnt making a "spectacle" of himself. However, he did it to gain attention of the gay community, for sure. I dont think he necessarily wants it for himself. Who would want to be a martyr like that? Has to be a major headache. His life has changed forever now, good or bad, that's for sure.
Since you're so compassionate, how do you feel about Collins leading a woman on for 8 years? Her life is now changed forever...

[Esmerelda Villalobos]

Since you're so compassionate, how do you feel about Collins leading a woman on for 8 years? Her life is now changed forever...

that sucks and I feel, again, if homosexuality was tolerated more openly, that would have never happened.

[Interpolation_Dawg_EX]

that sucks and I feel, again, if homosexuality was tolerated more openly, that would have never happened.
It's always someone Else's fault, isn't it?

[msstate7]

that sucks and I feel, again, if homosexuality was tolerated more openly, that would have never happened.

http://m.topix.com/forum/state/ms/T8IGHKIB0EB8LF3DM

This link states that gay men are 50x more likely to get aids. Does the fact that Collins exposed his fiancée to aids at a much higher rate make him a hero?

[CadaverDawg]

that sucks and I feel, again, if homosexuality was tolerated more openly, that would have never happened.

How do you know he didn't choose to go from straight to gay?

You don't.

[Hump4Hoops]

So you didn't read his post but you are ready to refute it. Riiiiiiiiiight.

BTW, I have read many lesbians who claim their orientation was most definitely a choice. In fact, I read debates in the 1990's between lesbians and gays where the lesbians argued that there was no causal inheritance but the homosexual orientation is always a choice. The gays argued that the lesbians should join them because it would be easier to make political gains when arguing the point based on genetics.

If you are making a choice, you are bisexual.Everyone chooses who they date. Noone chooses who they are attracted to.

Its like food- you can choose what you eat, not what tastes good to you. A gay guy that chooses women is still gay.

[Esmerelda Villalobos]

no. I honestly wouldnt come out either growing up in Mississippi (or anywhere that wasnt metropolitan). Judging by this thread, if I was gay and walking around MSU holding my boyfriends hand, I would probably be terrified.

[Esmerelda Villalobos]

How do you know he didn't choose to go from straight to gay?

You don't.

not how it works. You dont believe that and I do. So, there is no answer.

[Esmerelda Villalobos]

http://m.topix.com/forum/state/ms/T8IGHKIB0EB8LF3DM

This link states that gay men are 50x more likely to get aids. Does the fact that Collins exposed his fiancée to aids at a much higher rate make him a hero?

no. Ironically, I doubt Jason has ever been with a man.

[msstate7]

no. Ironically, I doubt Jason has ever been with a man.

I find that hard to believe, but neither of us really know...

[CadaverDawg]

no. I honestly wouldnt come out either growing up in Mississippi (or anywhere that wasnt metropolitan). Judging by this thread, if I was gay and walking around MSU holding my boyfriends hand, I would probably be terrified.

That's where you're confused. Nobody would say shit to you about it.

But if you expected praise, you would get pushback, and rightfully so.

Quit seeking special treatment and everyone will leave you alone. Remember, the whole "equality" gays claim they seek. When really they want to be viewed as special.

[fishwater99]

Quote Originally Posted by Ennis Del Mar View Post
no. Ironically, I doubt Jason has ever been with a man.


I find that hard to believe, but neither of us really know...


He might be with a man and not like it either if that was the case.

I agree, hard to know if you are Gay or not if you haven't been with a man. He was with a woman and didn't like it.

[mparkerfd20]

no. I honestly wouldnt come out either growing up in Mississippi (or anywhere that wasnt metropolitan). Judging by this thread, if I was gay and walking around MSU holding my boyfriends hand, I would probably be terrified.

As you should be, but not in the same context that you meant it. I doubt you'd have much of anything to be terrified from other people, but you should be literally terrified of the flaming hell that awaits you apart from repentance and belief in Jesus Christ... And that goes for any open sin/rebellion against God, be is homosexuality, heterosexual adultery, or whatever (which you've already said you don't believe and I assume don't care, but you should).

[swdawg]

Dude, he didn't just break up with her last week, and then turn around and make this announcement. How is her life changed forever? She says that she cares very much for him and hopes that he finds happiness...she expressed no ill will towards him.


Since you're so compassionate, how do you feel about Collins leading a woman on for 8 years? Her life is now changed forever...

[msstate7]

Dude, he didn't just break up with her last week, and then turn around and make this announcement. How is her life changed forever? She says that she cares very much for him and hopes that he finds happiness...she expressed no ill will towards him.
Did he just turn gay right after they broke up? I thought you guys say he was born that way

[Spider-Man]

It continues to disgust me how many openly proud bigots we apparently have in our midst. I will never again criticize ole miss as harboring racists and bigots, we have plenty.
How does not agreeing with a choice make somebody a bigot? Homosexuality is unnatural, it goes against the very laws of nature.

[Marooned]

what do all those have in common (minus adultery) other than being gay? They are illegal and hurt someone else. Being gay is neither.

Sodomy is illegal in MS and probably 40 other states. So a gay persons only way to have intercoarse with his partner is illegal in most states.

[Esmerelda Villalobos]

Sodomy is illegal in MS and probably 40 other states. So a gay persons only way to have intercoarse with his partner is illegal in most states.

not true. It is illegal in 14 states. Im sure you can guess which ones. I'll give you a hint...one of them just abolished slavery THIS YEAR.

[Hump4Hoops]

Did he just turn gay right after they broke up? I thought you guys say he was born that way

Again, you guys are either ignoring basic logic or you've got your very best dunce caps on.

He didn't just choose to be gay - he just chose to be openly gay (and pursue men) as opposed to being gay but still dating women.

You don't choose what type of pizza you enjoy, you choose what type you order. He finally started ordering the type he liked.

Anyone who has a choice in which gender they date and are attracted to the result either way aren't straight or gay - that's called bisexual.

[msstate7]

Again, you guys are either ignoring basic logic or you've got your very best dunce caps on.

He didn't just choose to be gay - he just chose to be openly gay (and pursue men) as opposed to being gay but still dating women.

You don't choose what type of pizza you enjoy, you choose what type you order. He finally started ordering the type he liked.

Anyone who has a choice in which gender they date and are attracted to the result either way aren't straight or gay - that's called bisexual.

I get it. If we don't see things you're way, then we're bigots or just dumb. Maybe one day we'll be more tolerant like you.

[CadaverDawg]

Again, you guys are either ignoring basic logic or you've got your very best dunce caps on.

He didn't just choose to be gay - he just chose to be openly gay (and pursue men) as opposed to being gay but still dating women.

You don't choose what type of pizza you enjoy, you choose what type you order. He finally started ordering the type he liked.

Anyone who has a choice in which gender they date and are attracted to the result either way aren't straight or gay - that's called bisexual.

Again, can you or anyone else tell me why every media outlet and the POTUS, is telling me I should give a **** about your choice of pizza topping?

Why do you feel the need to announce to the world that you like sausage pizza instead of supreme? Does it make someone special for liking a different type? Do they deserve special attention?

Why can't they keep their pizza and sex lives to themselves like the rest of America?

[fishwater99]

Again, you guys are either ignoring basic logic or you've got your very best dunce caps on.

He didn't just choose to be gay - he just chose to be openly gay (and pursue men) as opposed to being gay but still dating women.

You don't choose what type of pizza you enjoy, you choose what type you order. He finally started ordering the type he liked.

Anyone who has a choice in which gender they date and are attracted to the result either way aren't straight or gay - that's called bisexual.

So you believe you are born gay and there is a gay gene in the genetics of gay people?
If so, would you be for a test during pregnancy to determine this gene and the possibility of people to abort the future gay child?

[Marooned]

The only person your argument could possibly apply to is someone who is born with both organs. That is the only way someone can be born gay. Being gay is a conditioned response, whether obvious or not, to a persons upbringing. If you are born with male junk and you like dudes then something happened in their childhood or early adulthood that made them chose to be that way. That's why you have a greater chance if being gay if you we're raised in the absence of any male role models. Society has a great influence on adolescents and the person usually makes a determination at an early age to what their sexual preference will be

[Hump4Hoops]

So you believe you are born gay and there is a gay gene in the genetics of gay people?
If so, would you be for a test during pregnancy to determine this gene and the possibility of people to abort the future gay child?

Do you believe there is a gene responsible for liking ketchup? I must not have been born with that gene.

To answer both you and marooned: Whether likes and dislikes are determined through nature or nurture, they are still not choices.

[Esmerelda Villalobos]

every animal species has homosexuality in it. Wonder what their message boards look like.

[Esmerelda Villalobos]

The only person your argument could possibly apply to is someone who is born with both organs. That is the only way someone can be born gay. Being gay is a conditioned response, whether obvious or not, to a persons upbringing. If you are born with male junk and you like dudes then something happened in their childhood or early adulthood that made them chose to be that way. That's why you have a greater chance if being gay if you we're raised in the absence of any male role models. Society has a great influence on adolescents and the person usually makes a determination at an early age to what their sexual preference will be

:eek:

My father is as religious as they come. His sister is a lesbian. They were both raised in the same household, under the same strict christian rules. Ill be sure to tell the grandparents they are responsible for raising a heathen, though neither know about their daughter because she fears being shunned.

Comments like these are why people give conservatives shit.

[fishwater99]

Do you believe there is a gene responsible for liking ketchup? I must not have been born with that gene.

To answer both you and marooned: Whether likes and dislikes are determined through nature or nurture, they are still not choices.

Are you really going to compare liking ketchup to being a homosexual?
So you think you are either born straight or gay and that your upbringing and environment have nothing to do with it?

[Esmerelda Villalobos]

Are you really going to compare liking ketchup to being a homosexual?
So you think you are either born straight or gay and that your upbringing and environment have nothing to do with it?

YES

[fishwater99]

I was asking Hump4Hoops, but thanks for your answer(I already knew you thought that).

I think that it could be possible you are born straight or gay, but scientist have not proven it yet.

[Spider-Man]

every animal species has homosexuality in it. Wonder what their message boards look like.

Could you provide a link? Also, are these homosexual relationships monogamous? Granted many sexual relations in the animal kingdom are simply for procreating and often not monogamous. Just curious if the animals are just doing it for the pleasure they receive from the sexual acts.

[Marooned]

Are you really going to compare liking ketchup to being a homosexual?
So you think you are either born straight or gay and that your upbringing and environment have nothing to do with it?


I think CadaverDawg had a much better analogy with the sausage pizza

[Marooned]

Could you provide a link? Also, are these homosexual relationships monogamous? Granted many sexual relations in the animal kingdom are simply for procreating and often not monogamous. Just curious if the animals are just doing it for the pleasure they receive from the sexual acts.

American Bald Eagles mate for life. The symbol of America. And I'm pretty sure if any eagles were born gay they would have their asses kicked straight

[Hump4Hoops]

Are you really going to compare liking ketchup to being a homosexual?
So you think you are either born straight or gay and that your upbringing and environment have nothing to do with it?

I think upbringing and environment could potentially have a lot to do with it, yes. It might be something you're born with, it might be upbringing, and it might be a combination of both.

None of that, however, is a choice, much in the way you don't get to choose the foods, activities, or movies that you enjoy - you either do or don't - perhaps you're born hating tater tots, perhaps your upbringing has led to your love of shark movies, perhaps the street you grew up on is responsible for your irresistible lust for redheads. The point is that preferences are not choices, just factually speaking, not even specifically addressing sexuality.

[Coach 57]

I guess I am going to weigh in on this.

1st- For those that say "stop throwing the Bible at me!" Then stop throwing you bedroom at me (homosexuality).


2nd- The thing that bugs me about this Collins stuff is this. Have you ever seen sin more celebrated than this? Ever? I am well over 30yrs old and I honestly haven't. This should tell you where the state of the world is headed. Look I'm no "doomsday prepper" or anything like that but what I am is a born again Christian who believe the Rapture isn't far away. We are loving in times much like Israel was in the book of Hosea 4:. Babylon in the book of Daniel 5: and even the civilizations of Sodom & Gormorrah. Those civilizations were crushed, burned or invaded by their worst enemies. When a nation turns from God especially as we have lately, terrible things are on the horizon. Look I'm not trying to spook you guys, I have love for you all but when sin starts to very celebrated as this has you might want to start checking in on a study called Eschatology.

3rd- There aren't many times in the Bible when God uses the word "detestable" or "abomination". This is one of those times. I normally don't weigh in on anything that isn't football related on here and limit speaking about things I don't have knowledge on. I don't have knowledge on homosexuality but I do have knowledge of sin (as we are all born into it). I grew up a foul mouthed, head knocking trailer trash loser. But does that mean it's okay for me, a father of two and a husband of 17yrs, to be that way just because I was raised or "born that way"? If you are a married man and had sex with someone who isn't your wife and you said "hey, I was born this way (which technically we all were biblically)." Does that make it okay? Sin is sin! Bottom line!

[msstate7]

I guess I am going to weigh in on this.

1st- For those that say "stop throwing the Bible at me!" Then stop throwing you bedroom at me (homosexuality).


2nd- The thing that bugs me about this Collins stuff is this. Have you ever seen sin more celebrated than this? Ever? I am well over 30yrs old and I honestly haven't. This should tell you where the state of the world is headed. Look I'm no "doomsday prepper" or anything like that but what I am is a born again Christian who believe the Rapture isn't far away. We are loving in times much like Israel was in the book of Hosea 4:. Babylon in the book of Daniel 5: and even the civilizations of Sodom & Gormorrah. Those civilizations were crushed, burned or invaded by their worst enemies. When a nation turns from God especially as we have lately, terrible things are on the horizon. Look I'm not trying to spook you guys, I have love for you all but when sin starts to very celebrated as this has you might want to start checking in on a study called Eschatology.

3rd- There aren't many times in the Bible when God uses the word "detestable" or "abomination". This is one of those times. I normally don't weigh in on anything that isn't football related on here and limit speaking about things I don't have knowledge on. I don't have knowledge on homosexuality but I do have knowledge of sin (as we are all born into it). I grew up a foul mouthed, head knocking trailer trash loser. But does that mean it's okay for me, a father of two and a husband of 17yrs, to be that way just because I was raised or "born that way"? If you are a married man and had sex with someone who isn't your wife and you said "hey, I was born this way (which technically we all were biblically)." Does that make it okay? Sin is sin! Bottom line!

This country is in peril. All isn't lost though, but us God-fearing people need to wake up.

"If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land." 2 chronicles 7:14

[Bo Darville]

So your brother feels he was born gay. Thanks.

I never said anything of the sort. Go back and read what I said.

[Coach34]

I was asking Hump4Hoops, but thanks for your answer(I already knew you thought that).

I think that it could be possible you are born straight or gay, but scientist have not proven it yet.

C'mon Fish- we've all seen people that it's obvious from Day 1 they were going to be gay. Now, I do think environment and other factors can influence- no doubt. But we've all seen that kid from elementary school that came out of the womb singing show tunes.

[Interpolation_Dawg_EX]

C'mon Fish- we've all seen people that it's obvious from Day 1 they were going to be gay. Now, I do think environment and other factors can influence- no doubt. But we've all seen that kid from elementary school that came out of the womb singing show tunes.
Couldn't this same argument be used to justify people's actions that commit violent crime?

[Coach34]

Couldn't this same argument be used to justify people's actions that commit violent crime?

Someone being gay doesnt infringe or harm others. A violent crime does- so there is nothing to justify

But there is no doubt that some people are just mean and evil inside- and their instincts can lead them to commit violent crimes

[Marooned]

Not true. Most of my friends that are christians couldnt care less about marriage and think they are born that way. My girlfriends church actually encourages gay people to come to their church and they do. One gay couple even has a son there. It pissed westboro off so much they picketted one sunday. I actually went to that service. It was 120 degrees that day so the rainbow coalition came out and gave the bigots with signs lemonade so they had something to drink. Ironic, isnt it?


Someone being gay doesnt infringe or harm others. A violent crime does- so there is nothing to justify

But there is no doubt that some people are just mean and evil inside- and their instincts can lead them to commit violent crimes

Having worked in behavioral health I can tell you that homosexuals tend to have something that is very similar to a personality disorder. Of course there is no research that backs that up because society would scream bloody murder to the political correctness gods if you tried to fund a study to prove this. Many psychiatrists that I worked with agreed that being gay is very similar in fashion to traits associated with a borderline personality disorder mixed with traits of a Bipolar Disorder.

[Will James]

personality disorder.

And nobody is allowed to suggest that they get help for it.

[Marooned]

I'm interested to know if all these people that say their church openly invited the gays in actually accepts their behavior and promotes it. There is nothing wrong with a church opening it's doors to gays as long as the intent is to try and persuade them that homosexuality is wrong. I would leave a church whose ministry was to openly accept gays as normal and promote their lifestyle

[Marooned]

Well now that we will have ESPNSEC next year we will all have to love gays now people. The terrorists have won...

[Quaoarsking]

I'm interested to know if all these people that say their church openly invited the gays in actually accepts their behavior and promotes it. There is nothing wrong with a church opening it's doors to gays as long as the intent is to try and persuade them that homosexuality is wrong. I would leave a church whose ministry was to openly accept gays as normal and promote their lifestyle

I attend the Episcopal Church, which performs gay marriages. Homosexuality is not wrong. Some conservatives' obsession with this issue is beyond bizarre. Some people are left handed. Some people don't like to shave. Some people are gay. Some people like to wear shirts with different fabrics. Some people like to eat shellfish. We're all different, and none of those things hurt people who disagree.

[Quaoarsking]

Having worked in behavioral health I can tell you that homosexuals tend to have something that is very similar to a personality disorder. Of course there is no research that backs that up because society would scream bloody murder to the political correctness gods if you tried to fund a study to prove this. Many psychiatrists that I worked with agreed that being gay is very similar in fashion to traits associated with a borderline personality disorder mixed with traits of a Bipolar Disorder.

No, there has been a lot of research on this, and you're full of shit.

[Hump4Hoops]

a Sin is sin! Bottom line!

If everyone in the country shared your religious beliefs, it would be that simple.

Instead, many people disagree on what is a sin, or dont believe in the concept at all.

If you want all of your news delivered through a religious world view, get it through a religious source.

[msstate7]

If everyone in the country shared your religious beliefs, it would be that simple.

Instead, many people disagree on what is a sin, or dont believe in the concept at all.

If you want all of your news delivered through a religious world view, get it through a religious source.

I actually agree with you. Although I think it's a sin, that isn't a good argument in secular court..

[CadaverDawg]

I attend the Episcopal Church, which performs gay marriages. Homosexuality is not wrong. Some conservatives' obsession with this issue is beyond bizarre. Some people are left handed. Some people don't like to shave. Some people are gay. Some people like to wear shirts with different fabrics. Some people like to eat shellfish. We're all different, and none of those things hurt people who disagree.

In your opinion.

In my opinion and my beliefs, it IS wrong.

And comparing being gay to liking a different fabric or being left handed is a terrible comparison.