O.J. Smith Update [Archive]

Dawg61

02-04-2014, 04:14 PM

He and apparently about 90% of HS football players. I wouldn't mind if the SEC dropped the max signing limit to 22 or 23. It would only serve to help us bring in better talent.

So Tennessee can just sign 30 then? Anyone got an answer yet on why Butch Jones is being allowed to sign 34 this year? Just being nice to the new guy huh. Tennessee is blatantly breaking the rule put in place after Houston Nutt went full retard and nothing is being done/said about it.

Coach34

02-04-2014, 04:18 PM

So Tennessee can just sign 30 then? Anyone got an answer yet on why Butch Jones is being allowed to sign 34 this year? Just being nice to the new guy huh. Tennessee is blatantly breaking the rule put in place after Houston Nutt went full retard and nothing is being done/said about it.

14 of their signees are already enrolled- so some of them count back to last year's class

Also, some could be greyshirts enrolling at Christmas.

Coach34

02-04-2014, 04:20 PM

Looking back- Tenn only signed 23 last year- and who knows how many of those actually made it to campus. So some of those guys count back for sure

Dawg61

02-04-2014, 04:25 PM

14 of their signees are already enrolled- so some of them count back to last year's class

Also, some could be greyshirts enrolling at Christmas.

There was always a way to count players back but I was under the understanding that it was a hard 28. No matter what 28 was/is the max number allowed. This was put in place after Ole Miss and someone else (Georgia maybe) signed around 38 players one year.

RougeDawg

02-04-2014, 04:25 PM

Looking back- Tenn only signed 23 last year- and who knows how many of those actually made it to campus. So some of those guys count back for sure

Doesn't this defeat the purpose of the rule? So you are rewarded for going after a high amount of risky guys each year. Sign 25 high star risk guys one year, only bring in 16 4 star caliber guys. Next year sign 34 and hit on 75%. All high star guys. To me this is rewarding risk recruiting, where as a MSU signs guys that will qualify, if it means they have to sign lesser rated guys. Thus not getting to offer extra spots to more guys the subsequent years.

Coach34

02-04-2014, 04:36 PM

I'm not an NCAA rules guru- just an Online Legend and Pied Piper

Having 34 committed and having 34 sign are two different things. I dont know how they will work it all out

hacker

02-04-2014, 04:42 PM

Twitter/Alabama Rivals is now saying he will not sign with Alabama / declines grayshirt offer.

https://twitter.com/bamafootball_/status/430818511175159809

Coach34

02-04-2014, 04:46 PM

Hope that doesnt mean a Big 12 team has stepped in. He had a couple interested earlier in his recrootin

preachermatt83

02-04-2014, 04:49 PM

GO SHOW THIS GUY SOME LOVE ON TWITTER ASAP!!!

smootness

02-04-2014, 05:01 PM

Here are the rules, as they have been implemented by the SEC to this point:

- The SEC limit is 25, not 28. That means that each calendar year you can only sign 25 players.

- The 25 is regarding signings; it doesn't matter if the player makes it to campus or not; if he signs an LOI with you, he counts toward the 25.

- This is calendar year, so yes, you can count some back, if they are JUCOs who sign and enroll early. JUCOs have an early signing period in November, so they can sign an LOI and enroll early and count back if you have spots. This does not pertain to any HS signees; they can only sign in February, so they count toward the next calendar year regardless of when they enrolled. So Jocquell Johnson can count back for us, Nick Fitzgerald can not.

So I don't know how many Tennessee had count toward last year's class. What I do know is that they have 3 JUCOs who have signed a LOI and one post-grad guy who apparently enrolled; I don't know whether he signed a LOI or not. But regardless, the most they can count back toward last year from this class is 4. So they will not be able to sign 34, period.

ETA: This is as I have understood it. It has been explicitly stated places in the past that early enrollees from HS can not count back. I do not know if that is true or not, but it has definitely been stated that way. If HS EEs can count back, then they may be able to count more than 4 back. But that all depends on how many from their last class counted back.

maroonmania

02-04-2014, 05:03 PM

Twitter/Alabama Rivals is now saying he will not sign with Alabama / declines grayshirt offer.

https://twitter.com/bamafootball_/status/430818511175159809

I'm sorry but if we can't reel in this guy at this stage of the game in this situation then it doesn't speak well at all for our coaches' ability to recruit. Bama is basically handing him over on a silver platter at this point.

preachermatt83

02-04-2014, 05:05 PM

I'm sorry but if we can't reel in this guy at this stage of the game in this situation then I it doesn't speak well at all for our coaches' ability to recruit. Bama is basically handing him over on a silver platter at this point.

I have to agree with this..

Dawg61

02-04-2014, 05:13 PM

But regardless, the most they can count back toward last year from this class is 4. So they will not be able to sign 34, period.

They have every intention to sign 34. Just watch. They are blatantly breaking the rule. How are they going to avoid being over the max 4 or 29? They have 5 too many already. Butch Jones and Tennessee are going to break the rule. I don't see how they will avoid breaking it at this point. Guess we find out tomorrow.

I seen it dawg

02-04-2014, 05:22 PM

I'm sorry but if we can't reel in this guy at this stage of the game in this situation then it doesn't speak well at all for our coaches' ability to recruit. Bama is basically handing him over on a silver platter at this point.
I fear the kid just has national name school on his mind and is searching that out. Got nothing to do with our recruiting him. There are some kids that only want to hear the Bamas, FSu, Oklahomas, Texas, USC to come calling. If one of them does they will take it even if MSU is a better situation for him which we are if He isn't signing with Bama.

Goat Holder

02-04-2014, 05:23 PM

Doubt he signs with us. He's delaying his announcement, and he's already visited us. Either he wants another option or he has someone else in mind.

engie

02-04-2014, 05:29 PM

It's a rotating average. You can't just look at last year in most cases, because that class generally counted some back as well. At some point in the future, all this gets killed -- and it becomes a year-to-year basis only(I forget the exact day/year it enters effect) -- but it's not true yet. So, you've effectively got to "count back" until you have a class that actually has 25+ players in it as the "starting point".

dawgs

02-04-2014, 05:31 PM

They have every intention to sign 34. Just watch. They are blatantly breaking the rule. How are they going to avoid being over the max 4 or 29? They have 5 too many already. Butch Jones and Tennessee are going to break the rule. I don't see how they will avoid breaking it at this point. Guess we find out tomorrow.

there was some loophole butch jones was talking about earlier in the recruiting cycle.

http://knoxblogs.com/evanseleven/2013/12/05/has-butch-jones-found-a-recruiting-loophole-vols-could-use-complex-stragegies-to-manage-brimming-class/

here's some info on it.

and the sec's response.

http://www.ajc.com/weblogs/college-recruiting/2013/dec/09/sec-issues-statement-about-over-signing-loopholes/

engie

02-04-2014, 05:32 PM

So Tennessee can just sign 30 then? Anyone got an answer yet on why Butch Jones is being allowed to sign 34 this year? Just being nice to the new guy huh. Tennessee is blatantly breaking the rule put in place after Houston Nutt went full retard and nothing is being done/said about it.

He's not breaking any rules. He's simply exploiting the exact wording of the rule.

maroonmania

02-04-2014, 05:35 PM

I fear the kid just has national name school on his mind and is searching that out. Got nothing to do with our recruiting him. There are some kids that only want to hear the Bamas, FSu, Oklahomas, Texas, USC to come calling. If one of them does they will take it even if MSU is a better situation for him which we are if He isn't signing with Bama.

This guy was supposed to be very high on us even before he committed to Bama. If he is only interested in some "national school" not sure why he is wasting our time.

engie

02-04-2014, 05:36 PM

Doubt he signs with us. He's delaying his announcement, and he's already visited us. Either he wants another option or he has someone else in mind.

He's delaying his announcement simply to be 100% sure someone doesn't fall through -- thus getting him a full, immediate offer from Bama.

I don't see the problem with it?

maroonmania

02-04-2014, 05:36 PM

Doubt he signs with us. He's delaying his announcement, and he's already visited us. Either he wants another option or he has someone else in mind.

A lot of kids SAY they are going to delay but very few do. Will be interesting to see what happens with him tomorrow.

I seen it dawg

02-04-2014, 05:39 PM

This guy was supposed to be very high on us even before he committed to Bama. If he is only interested in some "national school" not sure why he is wasting our time.

He was interested because we were the best opportunity he had. When Bama offered he dove on it. He still has to go thru the process because he isnt qualified yet and because of it Bama wants to greyshirt him. Its a business and he has to treat it that way and keep us around because he made need us. I hope he does and i will welcome him ecstatically if a "national name" doesnt happen. As I said before this is the best spot for him to do what he wants to do.

Johnson85

02-04-2014, 05:40 PM

Doubt he signs with us. He's delaying his announcement, and he's already visited us. Either he wants another option or he has someone else in mind.

I think it's clear he wants to go to Bama. If he's willing to grey shirt but his parents are pushing him to take a scholarship, I can understand holding a spot for him. But if he's not willing to commit that he is coming to MSU unless he gets a Bama offer, it's probably time for us to move on. Even if we ended up with him, I just have my doubts that someone that adamant about going somewhere else will ever fully commit to the program.

Coach34

02-04-2014, 05:41 PM

A lot of kids SAY they are going to delay but very few do. Will be interesting to see what happens with him tomorrow.

ok- I'll spell it out:

He wants to go to Bama. Apparently Bama made it clear today they arent signing him. He is a kid that has always seen himself playing for a bright lights school. He is getting nibbles from another and they have him on standby- that is why he is delaying. We are his back-up plan it looks like.

TheRef

02-04-2014, 05:42 PM

ok- I'll spell it out:

He wants to go to Bama. Apparently Bama made it clear today they arent signing him. He is a kid that has always seen himself playing for a bright lights school. He is getting nibbles from another and they have him on standby- that is why he is delaying. We are his back-up plan it looks like.

Question...do we want a kid who clearly doesn't want to come here? Honest question...

Dawg61

02-04-2014, 05:49 PM

He's not breaking any rules. He's simply exploiting the exact wording of the rule.

Shouldn't we be doing the same then? Why let another SEC school get a competitive edge over us before it gets sewn up? This will probably be the only year the loophole still exists so it would seem to me MSU should be getting it while the getting is good.

msstate7

02-04-2014, 05:52 PM

Question...do we want a kid who clearly doesn't want to come here? Honest question...

A kid that would probably bust his butt to show bama they screwed up then yeah. Who knows if he's that kid though

Johnson85

02-04-2014, 05:52 PM

Question...do we want a kid who clearly doesn't want to come here? Honest question...

I sort of said it above, but I don't have a problem if we're a back up plan. Lots of people have to move on to a plan b in life and when they do they fully commit to it without sitting around moping about the plan a that didn't work out. But if he is holding out for any offer that he thinks is more prestigious, I'm guessing he's not ever going to be satisfied with playing at State. It kind of makes me question what he's looking for; why would you not want to go to the best conference and get a chance to prove the teams that snubbed you that they screwed up. I woudl not want to hold a spot to be a last resort; if he was good enough for that he'd get a scholarship from a 'big name' program. If we have a scholarship left over on signing day and just don't have anybody on our board we think merits a scholarship, sure, use it on him, but that would be very disappointing considering we aren't signing a full class to begin with.

Really Clark?

02-04-2014, 05:54 PM

Question...do we want a kid who clearly doesn't want to come here? Honest question...

Depends on the situation and the talent. With this being a position of need with plenty of upside with the player, then yes. If its a Marlon Humphrey you still take him even if its not a position of need. If its a just someone who would only add depth and may never start then no, you don't.

Goat Holder

02-04-2014, 06:00 PM

We don't need to move on until he moves on. We have recruited (or will) all we can get this season. It's not like we have others waiting in the wings. We need to wait him out as long as it takes. We will get Harris and everything else is simply gravy.

Kosydawg

02-04-2014, 06:00 PM

IF he doesn't sign tomorrow...what are the rules on re-recruiting him for lack of a better word........What can and cant be done by us or another school?

godlluB

02-04-2014, 06:00 PM

A kid that would probably bust his butt to show bama they screwed up then yeah. Who knows if he's that kid though

see "Brown, Titus".

Goat Holder

02-04-2014, 06:01 PM

We were the backup plan for a lot of good players over the years. That's not an issue to me at all.

I WANTED to go to Stanford, but settled for MSU. Tough shit for me, I guess.

Goat Holder

02-04-2014, 06:03 PM

BINGO

As Edward the Longshanks said, "See, as king, you must find the good in any situation"

engie

02-04-2014, 06:04 PM

Shouldn't we be doing the same then? Why let another SEC school get a competitive edge over us before it gets sewn up? This will probably be the only year the loophole still exists so it would seem to me MSU should be getting it while the getting is good.

Tennessee has had a ton of bad attrition over the years. You think we should sign 30 or so this year just to say we did it -- before cutting 12ish players in the summer?

No -- that's not how it works. Fact is, Tennessee needs a quick fix and we do not.

The loophole has existed forever. You should know -- we exploited it to a smaller extent in 2012.

If we have 30 guys that want to come to MSU and can help us next year(with 22 graduating and a few guys that could easily leave early) -- you can bet we're going to sign those players up.

Coach34

02-04-2014, 06:14 PM

IF he doesn't sign tomorrow...what are the rules on re-recruiting him for lack of a better word........What can and cant be done by us or another school?

He can sign Thursday, Friday, next Monday- tomorrow isnt the only day they can sign

maroonmania

02-04-2014, 06:18 PM

I think it's clear he wants to go to Bama. If he's willing to grey shirt but his parents are pushing him to take a scholarship, I can understand holding a spot for him. But if he's not willing to commit that he is coming to MSU unless he gets a Bama offer, it's probably time for us to move on. Even if we ended up with him, I just have my doubts that someone that adamant about going somewhere else will ever fully commit to the program.

because there is really nobody left out there to move on to that I'm aware of. All the "standby" guys for schollys have one because so many of our late prospects fell through. At this stage looks like we either get OJ and sign him or we don't just resulting in one less signee.

Coach34

02-04-2014, 06:22 PM

OJ is not a bad kid or a pre-madonna. He is just in a pickle because he hasnt gotten his ACT score yet. The Bright Lights schools usually have other options and dont have to take these chances. He is a very good talent and has a great shot to develop into an NFL 3-4 NG. His parents really enjoyed State and are in our corner for what that is worth.

Got to see how it plays out (I been saying that alot these last few months)

Schultzy

02-04-2014, 06:30 PM

Pretty pumped we are still in it for OJ. Great defensive tackles are hard to find.

He would be an awesome finish to this years class and MSU would be a great place for him to land as well.

engie

02-04-2014, 06:34 PM

Pretty pumped we are still in it for OJ. Great defensive tackles are hard to find.

He would be an awesome finish to this years class and MSU would be a great place for him to land as well.

I agree with this.

Hopefully this one works out in our favor. Ton of early available PT to a DT at MSU with 3 of our first 5 graduating next year...