Look fellas, if ya'll are ok winning 8-9 games 2-3 every 2-3 years and beating OM

[dawgclub99]

every other year that is fine, but rankings do not lie. Champions are built on recruiting and the best teams in America have top 10-15 classes consistantly every year. I want the best for this program and I am sure that each of you want the same, but being in the 20's and 30's in recruiting will only keep us where we are now.

[engie]

Tell that to South Carolina and Missouri. I think they missed the memo.

[gravedigger]

Those rankings sure have lied to some teams.

[TrapGame]

Didn't Boise State finish the season in the top 10 three years in a row with recruiting classes that didn't crack the top 40? Didn't they beat Oklahoma in the Fiesta Bowl (and Okie had top 10 recruting classes)? I'm I wrong cause I'm not googling shit.

[Vancleave]

Idiot post by OP. Great Reply by engie. We will never recruit in the top ten. Never. However we can recruit well to our system just as Mizzou has done and be consistant winners.

[WinningIsRelentless]

every other year that is fine, but rankings do not lie. Champions are built on recruiting and the best teams in America have top 10-15 classes consistantly every year. I want the best for this program and I am sure that each of you want the same, but being in the 20's and 30's in recruiting will only keep us where we are now.

Championships are won on the practice field and the weight room. Give me a 3 star with a good work ethic and you take all the 5 star pre madonnas that don't think they have to work and I'll take you to the woodshed every time

[deltadawg99]

At the end of the day it comes down to coaching. Yes some of the top teams like Bama and LSU do finish with top 10 classes every year, but they also have really good coaches that can develop talent once they get it on campus.

[Drugdog]

Michigan and Notre Dame say hello.

[Statefan]

Michigan and Notre Dame say hello.

As do Florida and Texas

[cbrunt29]

Championships are won on the practice field and the weight room. Give me a 3 star with a good work ethic and you take all the 5 star pre madonnas that don't think they have to work and I'll take you to the woodshed every time
Well said.

[BogeyGolfer]

every other year that is fine, but rankings do not lie. Champions are built on recruiting and the best teams in America have top 10-15 classes consistantly every year. I want the best for this program and I am sure that each of you want the same, but being in the 20's and 30's in recruiting will only keep us where we are now.

I think the truth lies somewhere in the middle. There is a reason Bama and LSU are elite teams each year. It's because they recruit 5 star talent. However, coaching plays a major role in that as well. I always think back to Bobby P at Arkansas, he was always in the 30's but he is a great coach and signed players to meet his needs. This is what our staff will have to do ...

[scottycameron]

Well said.

yep. that's why we take bama/lsu to the woodshed every year.

[maroonmania]

I think the truth lies somewhere in the middle. There is a reason Bama and LSU are elite teams each year. It's because they recruit 5 star talent. However, coaching plays a major role in that as well. I always think back to Bobby P at Arkansas, he was always in the 30's but he is a great coach and signed players to meet his needs. This is what our staff will have to do ...

What was it Bobby Bowden used to say? I think it was something like "You can't win a championship on signing day but you can sure as heck lose one".

[scottycameron]

doubled up

[tcdog70]

The fact that Texas, Mich., Bama, Fla., Ga.,Ohio St, LSU are offering a player most of the time makes Him gain a star or two. Bama could recruit our class and their Star ratings would be higher just because Bama signed them. If you can recruit in the top30 and then have a staff that can Coach them Up, that will make you really competitive.

[engie]

And for the record, no one is saying we don't need to continue to recruit better. We do -- and we have to. No one is "satisfied" with our current recruiting. But you approached the conversation from entirely the wrong angle to have people in agreement with you...

We've got a dark horse candidate for the Heisman next year -- what could easily become the best linebacker in the country next year -- and what could easily be the best overall player in the country regardless of position given the improvement schedule in 3 years of playing organized football(as a soph). One of the 3 was "highly recruited" -- and that one fielded calls from other programs for about 5 weeks TOTAL at the very end of his senior year and was a 2* or 3* on 3 of 4 services until the very last month of recruiting.

Go back and look at the epic recruiting class meltdown of 2011 -- look at what we ACTUALLY had in that class -- and you will understand why none of us are melting down right now.

[WinningIsRelentless]

They don't regret 5 star pre madonnas or they don't let them come in and be pre madonnas. Our problem are most 5 star guys we always go after are the ones no one want. Quay is the perfect example all the talent in the world with a sense of entitlement.

I guess you could blame the coaches some to a degree but a lot of it falls on our fans with as much smoke they blow up kids asses during recruiting.

Once a kid gets on campus don't go straight to the comments of he is going to be a big help this year, ask him how he plans to beat whoever is in front of him out of a position.

Rant over

[M.Fillmore]

Russell Wilson 2* and Colin Kaepernick 2* also say hello.

[Dawgowar]

every other year that is fine, but rankings do not lie. Champions are built on recruiting and the best teams in America have top 10-15 classes consistantly every year. I want the best for this program and I am sure that each of you want the same, but being in the 20's and 30's in recruiting will only keep us where we are now.

1. I am ok winning 8-9 games every year - only way to get to 9-12 wins is to be consistent beyond 5-7 wins a season. Spent 30 or so years watching 1-5 win seasons. 8-9 is a good START.

2. TSUN every other year? No, but I will take 4 of 5.

3. Champions are built on recruiting but you have to build each level of performance - 6 wins, 8 wins, 10 win range etc in order to compete for the better classes.

4. Being in the 20's to 30's and winning will get you to the teens to 20's and from there, if coached well, your team will have a good run of championship caliber football that will allow you to sign a string of top ten talent. You can grab a few early with skirting the rules flagrantly but you increase the odds of either retribution or out right punishment - and at some point the NCAA or another governing body is going to have to step in and fix this process.

5. Why do these rankings really upset people? Forget our W-L over the years, Mississippi is a small state with a small market share - recruiting services, like Athlon's and Lindy's mags for predictions, ESPN and CBS for Broadcasts, etc, etc SELL to six primary SEC fan bases - it's business. Nothing more. Our rankings and classes will not get the same love until we produce something with what we have now.

[blacklistedbully]

I suspect the Bama's & LSU's are getting the 4 & 5-stars that also have the work ethic, drive etc. Teams like Ole Miss & MSU haven't seemed capable of pulling the "whole package" consistently and on a large scale like Bama. While we seem to prefer work-ethic, drive & character over stars, the Bears seem to prefer stars over work-ethic, drive & character.

Our method allows for us getting a few players that probably should have been 4 & 5 stars, or were close enough that their intangibles could narrow the gap enough to make us competitive many years. The Ole Miss method can also sometimes work if the character/work-ethic issues don't blow up in their faces. I do think with a better coaching staff our method is better than the Black Bears most of the time, as we're far less likely to implode, or swing-and-miss badly on a recruit, and are doing a better job of developing those players willing to work hard and earn it.

Beyond the coaching staff's capability of developing a player, is the reality that it's much easier to coach up a player who is eager to earn it, dedicated to bettering himself and willing to sacrifice for the sake if his team as well as his own personal growth. We seem to be getting more of those type guys than Ole Miss. They tend to attract the latter with the way they recruit and the way they seem to prioritize stars above character/work ethic.

At least, this is what I suspect. I also think Coach and others are mostly correct in advising not to put too much stock in the recruiting site evaluations.

[Coach 57]

"It isn't how many stars you have when you walk on day one. It's what you are when you walk off at the end!" Said by my coach. And this IS the truth! Guys like Banks a 2* CAN be a 5* when his career is over! Big Ben Mckinney came in a 2* QB but when he leaves will be a 5* MLB who'll be drafted! Rankings DONT matter! Player eval overcomes star ratings!

[scottycameron]

Russell Wilson 2* and Colin Kaepernick 2* also say hello.

Peyton waves back.

[CadaverDawg]

We have 2 four star safeties, 1 four star CB, 3 four star LB's, 2 four star DL & 3 five star DL....and that's just defense.

And guess what, some of those 4 and 5 star guys listed are sitting behind guys like McKinney (2 star) because he's the best in the SEC. While we need to improve our recruiting, you need to improve your research because we have a LOT of 4 and 5 star players on the field, especially on D.

4 and 5 star recruits:
Cox
Arrington
Redmond
Wells
B Brown
R Brown
Evans
James
Jones
Autry
Eulls

Am I missing any? Just because each class isn't loaded with them, doesn't mean we aren't fielding a team with 4 and 5 star talent. Our offense is behind the defense in this category, but improving with guys like Jackson, Graham, Williams this year, and Shump last year.

[Goat Holder]

Don't bring that Boise crap in here. Not even comparable. Crap conference and the teams they beat were in one game situations, where anybody can win. Put Boise in a BCS conference and they quickly regress to their potential.

Engie's example of South Carolina was a great one. They are a great model to copy. As is Kansas State. I think what we need to do is a combination of those two programs.

[Goat Holder]

I am most definitely going to be satisfied with an average of 8-9 regular season games per year for at least the next 5 five years. I wanted 6 wins on average for the first five and I got 6.6. If we can get 8-9 for the next 5 years, I'd be freaking ECSTATIC.

[Coach34]

Peyton waves back.

Tom Brady wasnt a 4 or 5 star either

[Dawgowar]

As is Kansas State.

Particularly if we could get a similar schedule they used in building to ten wins. Think they played a Convent and a Lawn Mower Repair JUCO at one point.

[Goat Holder]

Not sure if you are sarcastic or not, but yes, you are correct. But we have that already, and we have an AD that knows how important that is. MSU and K-State don't have the built in advantages that other schools do, so we take other advantages when we can get them. Not sure why that's so hard for people to grasp.

South Carolina plays a tougher schedule, but they also have more resources than we do. SC population is about 5 million I believe, where MS is 3 million.

[quickstrike2]

Tom Brady wasnt a 4 or 5 star either

I don't know what his star rating was, but he was highly recruited. Michigan, USC, and Illinois was his final 3 i think.

[Coach34]

Miss State is not going to be a top 15 recruiter in the rankings year in and year out. While Starkville has some very good things going on, it is the only SEC school that is not reasonably close to a metropolitan area or in one. And some kids just arent going to sign somewhere like that.

The formula we have is working:

1. Recruit Mississippi hard to get the best kids each year. Mississippi has players that are underrated every year. Every year. That's the backbone of our program
2. Reach into Louisiana, Alabama, and Georgia for the leftovers. Prescott, JRob, Bennie Brown, etc. We are doing well here.
3. Have a recruiting pitch of family and hard work- not sugar. This eliminates alot of attrition from our program that hurt other schools like us. Kids sign here knowing they have to work their ass off from Day 1.

We have to strive to get as many talented players as possible- but as we enter Year 6 of the Mullen tenure with what looks like our most talented team- I'd have to say the formula we have is working. How can you not?

[Goat Holder]

Add JUCO recruiting in there. That's what will take us from a 6-8 win team to a possible national contender every few years.

[dawgs]

The fact that Texas, Mich., Bama, Fla., Ga.,Ohio St, LSU are offering a player most of the time makes Him gain a star or two. Bama could recruit our class and their Star ratings would be higher just because Bama signed them. If you can recruit in the top30 and then have a staff that can Coach them Up, that will make you really competitive.

Why would Bama go recruit lesser talent just to watch them get the Bama bump? The on field results should nullify any talk of the Bama bump. If you asked dan, he'd probably prefer bama's class too, but that kinda class is much less attainable for us right now, we'd need a perfect storm like ole miss last year to land that kinda talent, and even still ole Miss's class wasn't Bama good.

Bama gets the pick of the litter recruiting, that's why their classes rank high. Not because of some bias.

[Goat Holder]

So does Texas. See how that worked out.

Look, you have a valid point and so does tcdog70. It isn't absolute. Obviously Alabama is getting great players, but the recruiting services also aren't really experts. They award stars based on offers as well. So, it's easy to rank a 5 star player, and it's also easy to overlook them if they aren't getting recruited by people.

[Westdawg]

What a lot of you who are continually upset over our recruiting rankings fail to realize is that you cannot simply "JUMP" from a 30+ ranking in recruiting to top ten overnight....and those few who do attract A LOT of attention, and for good reason. The RK EXPRESS jumped on at Ole Miss last year, resulting in a few top level talent joining him. but most of us here also believe that there were "other" reasons that put them over the top with said recruits. There is a reason they are not attracting that level of talent this year.
Bottom line is this - Mullen has had to build a program up from basically nothing. There were a few pieces that resembled an SEC program when he got here, but only a few. You have to build solid depth, then begin plugging in higher talent within it, all while continuing that building of quality depth.
It does not happen overnight. It takes YEARS. They have evaluated very well overall, and found some gems that otherwise would have fallen through the cracks and not come here. And they have developed those guys into good SEC players overall. Sure, we have some guys that Bama, etc wouldn't want. But You take a look at where some of those guys were ranked prior to Bama offering them, and there were several who were unknowns and then their ranking blew up because of a Bama offer.
You are beginning to see the defense moreso at this point finally have the overall quality depth that is needed to compete on a consistent level. There is now higher-end talent at most all the positions now. Several 4* guys at most all positions, albeit young.
Offensively, you are seeing the quality depth being addressed still. Mullen is finding guys who can be really good, but have got to be developed still, and not just come in and compete for a starting position. We finally will have a good depth of several QBs who can carry out this offense. We have a strong stable of RBs. The TEs look to be finally legit.....think of the size of the TEs back during the late 90s early 00s at UGA. Those guys were massive and had great hands that really made that offense click.
We still lack a piece or two as far as playmakers on offense....but i also think those pieces could already be on campus in Brandon Holloway - who has the speed to stretch a defense out of comfort, and we already have a good slot guy. we need a second one, honestly. We need some other guys to take steps this year at WR on the outside. We have incredible size now at the WR position....the biggest in our team's history.
We are building depth still at the OL. honestly, this is the one area that almost every team, regardless of recruiting prowess, has major difficulty evaluating and developing. So many OL recruits do not pan out, more so than any other position. Few players get the quality coaching at the HS level to come in and compete, and fewer still have the ability to immediately contribute. You are looking at LONG TERM INVESTMENT for a coaching staff to take a hs OL. There is more at this one position as far as building strength, technique, and knowledge that you must have an OL coach who has patience and a strong desire to teach/coach and impart that knowledge and skill to players over a long period of time.
We have some good depth at OL, but I still feel that we are 2 years away from really seeing that unit be stellar. And i take nothing away from Hevesy and those guys there now. They have far out-peformed anyone's hopes for them. And they have done amazingly well for the level of talent there at this point. The hardest things to teach an OL is pass pro, and we are one of the tops in the league in that stat.

ya'll just calm down. This team is going to be really good.

[Pollodawg]

Yeah, it's not like that 2* QB Russell Wilson whose only other legit offer was Duke is about to go play in the Superbowl or anything.

[HoopsDawg]

We can rationalize all we want and make excuses. We can point to Titus Brown or the new Titus Brown-Mckinney. Someone will always foolishly bring up Boise State and someone else will mention South Carolina-never mind that South Carolina signs a Top 15 class every other year or that Missouri signed the no. 1 overall recruit in the nation a couple of years ago. The fact is this is not the kind of recruiting class that will allow us to compete for championships. If we put back to back classes like this together, we will be in trouble. The good news is 2015 could shape up to be a banner year in recruiting and everyone making excuses will love stars and recruiting sites again.

[Pollodawg]

Peyton waves back.

This proves nothing. Absolutely nothing. Peyton being higher rated out of high school and college diminishes in now way the special feat that Wilson accomplished in making it to the Superbowl. Talk about deflect.

[TexasDawg]

Tom Brady wasnt a 4 or 5 star either

Peyton wasn't a 5 star, Brady wasn't a 5 star, because there were no stars back in the day. Star System is very recent.

[esplanade91]

At the end of the day it comes down to coaching. Yes some of the top teams like Bama and LSU do finish with top 10 classes every year, but they also have really good coaches that can develop talent once they get it on campus.

And Missouri has had the same coaching staff for 10 years. Assistants and all. We've GOT to pony up some cash to keep our guys. If not then the whole "under the radar" type thing is basically a toss up.

[engie]

We can rationalize all we want and make excuses. We can point to Titus Brown or the new Titus Brown-Mckinney. Someone will always foolishly bring up Boise State and someone else will mention South Carolina-never mind that South Carolina signs a Top 15 class every other year or that Missouri signed the no. 1 overall recruit in the nation a couple of years ago. The fact is this is not the kind of recruiting class that will allow us to compete for championships. If we put back to back classes like this together, we will be in trouble. The good news is 2015 could shape up to be a banner year in recruiting and everyone making excuses will love stars and recruiting sites again.

South Carolina yearly recruiting(scout since 24/7 hasn't existed for long enough to show the trend):
current - 35
2013 - 24
2012 - 13
2011- 11
2010 - 34
2009 - 13
2008 - 34
Avg - 23.4

MSU yearly recruiting:
current - 41
2013 - 22
2012 - 18
2011 - 45
2010 - 38
2009 - 19
2008 - 33
Avg - 30.8

Mizzou yearly recruiting:
current - 31
2013 - 36
2012 - 34
2011 - 47
2010 - 27
2009 - 38
2008 - 31
Avg - 34.8

Missouri finished this season at #5. South Carolina finished this year at #4. We are recruiting basically as well as they are. We signed the #2 recruit last year. What was your point?

Again -- trusting the same people that have whiffed on ENTIRE CLASSES for us over the coaches that saw fit to take these kids early -- in a year that we've LITERALLY only got about 16 scholarships open.

[smootness]

every other year that is fine, but rankings do not lie. Champions are built on recruiting and the best teams in America have top 10-15 classes consistantly every year. I want the best for this program and I am sure that each of you want the same, but being in the 20's and 30's in recruiting will only keep us where we are now.

What is the point of this post? This is pretty clearly true for the most part - not completely but obviously there's a lot of truth behind it. And?

I'm pretty sure our coaches want top 10-15 classes just as much as we do. You don't just get them because you decide you want them...as though there are only 10-15 programs in the country who want talent. The bottom line is, it is very difficult to attract those guys to Mississippi State. You don't just snap your fingers and do it. So you have to start building and hope that you can continue to gradually improve enough to where one day, you are a consistent competitor.

If you want a program that's going to recruit in the top 10-15 every year right now, you shouldn't be a State fan. I feel like our fanbase collectively developed a hernia last year after Ole Miss' class and now believes we can recruit that well every year because, hey, Ole Miss did it once.

Look at Ole Miss this year. They're doing nothing better than we've done for the last several years. They won't have another class at that level ever again.

[Goat Holder]

Your eyes are literally closed. You are reading but you aren't seeing. Engie posted a bunch of stuff that proves you wrong. Oh, you say, "Well SC and Mizzou are still ahead of us"....whatever. They also have more resources than us. We have to make up for that in some way, and mainly that's development and strategy ie recruiting for a purpose. Not everybody should do that.....but MSU is the exception. We also signed damn near the #1 player in the country too last year in Chris Jones.

There again, JUCO recruiting is also a great equalizer if you use it correctly, like K-State does. K-State knows how to schedule as well.

[HoopsDawg]

South Carolina yearly recruiting(scout since 24/7 hasn't existed for long enough to show the trend):
current - 35
2013 - 24
2012 - 13
2011- 11
2010 - 34
2009 - 13
2008 - 34
Avg - 23.4

MSU yearly recruiting:
current - 41
2013 - 22
2012 - 18
2011 - 45
2010 - 38
2009 - 19
2008 - 33
Avg - 30.8

Mizzou yearly recruiting:
current - 31
2013 - 36
2012 - 34
2011 - 47
2010 - 27
2009 - 38
2008 - 31
Avg - 34.8

Missouri finished this season at #5. South Carolina finished this year at #4. We are recruiting basically as well as they are. We signed the #2 recruit last year. What was your point?

Again -- trusting the same people that have whiffed on ENTIRE CLASSES for us over the coaches that saw fit to take these kids early -- in a year that we've LITERALLY only got about 16 scholarships open.

I think you made it for me, thanks. SC: 13, 11, 13 on last year's 11-2 team. They also play in the SECE.

[smootness]

I think you made it for me, thanks. SC: 13, 11, 13 on last year's 11-2 team. They also play in the SECE.

They also won 11 the 2 years before this. And you ignored Missouri.

[engie]

They also won 11 the 2 years before this. And you ignored Missouri.

He's just going to make it a point to troll it to whatever extent possible. That's the role he is going to play regardless of facts presented.

Applewhite transfer thread is only a couple of wins away from needing a monumentally hilarious bump -- less that 25% of the way into conference play.

[maroonmania]

We have 2 four star safeties, 1 four star CB, 3 four star LB's, 2 four star DL & 3 five star DL....and that's just defense.

And guess what, some of those 4 and 5 star guys listed are sitting behind guys like McKinney (2 star) because he's the best in the SEC. While we need to improve our recruiting, you need to improve your research because we have a LOT of 4 and 5 star players on the field, especially on D.

4 and 5 star recruits:
Cox
Arrington
Redmond
Wells
B Brown
R Brown
Evans
James
Jones
Autry
Eulls

Am I missing any? Just because each class isn't loaded with them, doesn't mean we aren't fielding a team with 4 and 5 star talent. Our offense is behind the defense in this category, but improving with guys like Jackson, Graham, Williams this year, and Shump last year.

Cadaver, you are right on, we are getting "enough" highly touted prospects in most areas to at least compete with all but the very upper tier of college football. 2 areas we definitely need to improve in to have any chance to truly compete for the SEC though are (as I posted in another thread) more highly sought after OL prospects and just a couple of more real difference maker types on offense (WR and QB) though I think our QB recruiting is now really catching up with this class. We have Dak now but we better hope he doesn't get injured. We tout our lower sought after OL prospects that contribute (like Clausell and Day) but we have even more guys that were low on the offer sheet we've signed over the past years that either are still on the team and not contributing or have quit the team. No use in posting their names here but you know who they are. The other thing with our "diamond in the rough" development process on the OL is that its often several years in the program before they can make any real contributions on the field if ever. Just an area we really need to improve in. Looking at next year we have 2 proven OL (Day and Clausell), 2 promising OL (Malone and Claiborne) a steady walk-on (Beckwith) and then what I would term "a bunch of other guys". Sorry, but that does not have the look of an OL for an SEC championship team in my view.

[Political Hack]

Utah, Wisconsin, GaTech, Boise, Mizzu, Texas Tech, K-State, Duke, Louisville, TCU, Central Florida, and a few more say you can win and challenge for conference championships without top 20 recruiting classes.

[hacker]

lol, "Missouri signed the #1 recruit a couple years ago"

Dude apparently forgot that we signed the #2 recruit last year

[Coach34]

The other thing with our "diamond in the rough" development process on the OL is that its often several years in the program before they can make any real contributions on the field if ever. Just an area we really need to improve in. Looking at next year we have 2 proven OL (Day and Clausell), 2 promising OL (Malone and Claiborne) a steady walk-on (Beckwith) and then what I would term "a bunch of other guys". Sorry, but that does not have the look of an OL for an SEC championship team in my view.

You dont want OL guys having to play significant minutes before their 3rd season. If they do, that means they are bigtime players OR you havent recruited well enough on the OL.

We have 3 proven guys- Day, Clausell, Malone (Malone has started 8 games in his career and is very good. We just need him healthy now)
We have 1 very talented young-un who got experience in his 1st year- Clayborn
We have a juco coming in to play significant snaps- Johnson
We have 2 entering their 3rd year so they are ready to play more- Senior and Desper
We have 2 R-Fr that were Mississippi's top 2 linemen recruits looking to get some work this year- Flowers and Thomas

Not sure what the problem is here. That looks good to me. We always want more talent any position and would take it on the OL too. But it wasnt the OL that dropped the pass from Damien Williams that would have cut the lead against Bama to 6. Now that our QB and WR talent is improving- this is what is going to elevate us.

[Political Hack]

lol, "Missouri signed the #1 recruit a couple years ago"

Dude apparently forgot that we signed the #2 recruit last year

who's been better than the number one recruit thus far.

[HoopsDawg]

lol, "Missouri signed the #1 recruit a couple years ago"

Dude apparently forgot that we signed the #2 recruit last year

Mizzou went what 5-7 in 2012? They had a great year in 2013. Good for them. They didn't have to play AU, Bama, or LSU. And they have recruited better than their rankings. 90% of their fans didn't know what a recruiting website was 2 years ago.

[HoopsDawg]

He's just going to make it a point to troll it to whatever extent possible. That's the role he is going to play regardless of facts presented.

.

LOL, pot meet kettle.

[Goat Holder]

You're grasping. Just walk away. You're defeated.

[smootness]

Mizzou went what 5-7 in 2012? They had a great year in 2013. Good for them. They didn't have to play AU, Bama, or LSU. And they have recruited better than their rankings. 90% of their fans didn't know what a recruiting website was 2 years ago.

So you base your argument on recruiting site rankings and claim that we can't just point to guys like Titus Brown and McKinney...then when called out with a team like Missouri, you just toss them aside by saying, 'they have recruited better than their rankings'.

Yeah, not going to waste my time on this argument anymore. So we can't argue that we recruit better than our rankings because ultimately you have to recruit well according to the rankings, but if you give an example of a team who looks like they've recruited better than their rankings, you agree with that while continuing to disagree that teams can recruit better than their rankings...huh?

This would be like me telling you a basketball team can't be better than their RPI...sure, there may be a couple of spots here and there that you can argue, but ultimately the best teams are in the top 15-20 in the RPI so if your RPI is outside that, you're not good enough. Then you come back and argue that so-and-so won a national title or made the Final 4 with an RPI of 40, then me saying, 'Sure, but they were better than their RPI'.

I have to agree with engie at this point. You're either seriously confused or just trolling.

[chef dixon]

Using South Carolina and Missouri comparisons to us isn't entirely accurate, but I do agree it should offer us hope. Over the span of time people are arguing, no South Carolina or Missouri team was going to be able to win the SEC West. To the OP's defense, he did mention "championships" are built on recruiting. Neither Missouri or South Carolina has won the SEC championship or even been to a BCS bowl as members of the conference.

[Coach34]

Using South Carolina and Missouri comparisons to us isn't entirely accurate, but I do agree it should offer us hope. Over the span of time people are arguing, no South Carolina or Missouri team was going to be able to win the SEC West. To the OP's defense, he did mention "championships" are built on recruiting. Neither Missouri or South Carolina has won the SEC championship or even been to a BCS bowl as members of the conference.

Anybody expecting us to win an SEC title is out of touch with reality. Same with Ole Miss

51 years and counting since anybody outside the Big 6.

[chef dixon]

Anybody expecting us to win an SEC title is out of touch with reality. Same with Ole Miss

51 years and counting since anybody outside the Big 6.

Then there is no discussion here.

[engie]

Mizzou went what 5-7 in 2012? They had a great year in 2013. Good for them. They didn't have to play AU, Bama, or LSU. And they have recruited better than their rankings. 90% of their fans didn't know what a recruiting website was 2 years ago.

Wow. Just.... WOW. "They have recruited better than their rankings" is the most hypocritical thing I've seen on here in awhile.

They won 63 damn games in the 7 years leading into 2012. They didn't suddenly start playing football last year -- and get "lucky" to be good in 2013. They simply got decimated by injuries in 2012. Need I link all the posts where I called for their rise this year while most overlooked them as a doormat and ridiculed my position? Many here already remember that.

[engie]

LOL, pot meet kettle.

Notice you skip the second half of the quote. Why is that?

Cause Rick Ray sux and we will be lucky to win 4?!?1!1**

[dawgs]

Look the top 10 or so classes every year kinda separate themselves. Maybe 1-3 of those are even above the rest of the top tier classes. But generally the difference in classes isn't all that much. Then you have 20-25 classes that are pretty close. Coaching, evaluation, etc. separates those classes over the next 4-5 years.

We'd easily be higher if we were signing a full class, but we also wouldn't sniff the top tier classes.

[Bullmutt]

Coach, respect your opinion a ton, but let's never say never. I believe consideration of the team we'll have next year can serve to justify hope. Who knows? With a break here and there at the right time (the kind that in the past have rarely gone our way)- it could happen!

[Coach34]

Coach, respect your opinion a ton, but let's never say never. I believe consideration of the team we'll have next year can serve to justify hope. Who knows? With a break here and there at the right time (the kind that in the past have rarely gone our way)- it could happen!

I certainly feel like next year is the best team we have had since 1999 and cant wait to watch them play. Lots to be excited about.

[blacklistedbully]

Anybody expecting us to win an SEC title is out of touch with reality. Same with Ole Miss

51 years and counting since anybody outside the Big 6.

This I don't buy. We came within a few minutes and a play in 1998 of winning, after winning the West. In the early 80's we were so close.

Granted, the odds are long, but certainly not impossible, and with the new revenue structure, and what looks like an increase in the number of quality players coming out of high school, it's quite possible the gap is closing. There comes a point when having 5 times the money is less an advantage for the Bama's when the lessor money we have is still plenty to invest where we need to in facilities, coaches, etc.

If Mullen doesn't step on his own dick this coming year, I really like our chances with the personnel we have coming back relative to what everybody else has coming back.

[smootness]

Granted, the odds are long, but certainly not impossible

His point was that we shouldn't expect it, and he's right. Sure, it's possible, and I would assume all State fans hold out hope that it will eventually happen and believe that it can. But based on history, if you expect it, you're just setting yourself up for frustration and disappointment.

[smootness]

Then there is no discussion here.

Thus my point...there is no point to the OP. It was basically saying that State fans shouldn't be 'ok' with reality.

[blacklistedbully]

His point was that we shouldn't expect it, and he's right. Sure, it's possible, and I would assume all State fans hold out hope that it will eventually happen and believe that it can. But based on history, if you expect it, you're just setting yourself up for frustration and disappointment.

That is not at all what I get out of his post. He said "Anybody expecting us to win an SEC title is out of touch with reality". "An", as in "any". He further points out is has been 51 years since anyone outside the Big 6 have done it. Hardly think he uses that as his support statement unless he actually means an SEC Title is beyond our reach, period.

I disagree. And if you're one who thinks it's at least plausible that we could win one, then this coming year sure seems like it's as good an opportunity for us as we've had in our lifetimes. Yes, it's a long-shot, but just about everybody is something of a long-shot in the SEC West. Auburn is a long-shot, Bama & LSU less so, but still, there are some damn good football teams in our division nearly every year, with the lower-tier teams fully capable of taking one of the big dogs out on any given Saturday. May be getting more like that every year going forward.

[Homedawg]

Peyton wasn't a 5 star, Brady wasn't a 5 star, because there were no stars back in the day. Star System is very recent.

Actually, you are right and wrong. There were several recruitig services then, lindy's, which used a 10 pt system and forest Davis who used a one to five. Manning was a ten and. Five. Just for clarification

[Todd4State]

This I don't buy. We came within a few minutes and a play in 1998 of winning, after winning the West. In the early 80's we were so close.

Granted, the odds are long, but certainly not impossible, and with the new revenue structure, and what looks like an increase in the number of quality players coming out of high school, it's quite possible the gap is closing. There comes a point when having 5 times the money is less an advantage for the Bama's when the lessor money we have is still plenty to invest where we need to in facilities, coaches, etc.

If Mullen doesn't step on his own dick this coming year, I really like our chances with the personnel we have coming back relative to what everybody else has coming back.

I hate to be the wet blanket here, but the only times that we would have been even close to making it to the College Football Playoff assuming it existed prior to this year would be 1980 and maybe 1999. 1998, possibly as well.

With the way that they are picking the teams to go to the final four playoff games, we are going to have to go 13-0 to make it, and then win both playoff games. As long as Archie Manning is on that committee picking the teams, we won't make it to the final four even if we go 12-1 with a last second loss to a Tebow era caliber Florida team in the SEC Championship Game. At 12-1, we may be thankful to just go to one of the other NYD bowl games associated with the playoffs. And after Archie leaves that committee, Peyton and Eli will almost surely follow him at some point.

Now, you might think that the Manning's are nice people (and probably are relative to today's standards) and you might like their commercials, respect them as football players and think that they are funny on SNL- which is all fine- but they are NOT friends of MSU football.

But, based on what I have read about the new college football playoff, and a lot of this is just guess work on my part since we have zero data, we're going to have to finish in the top 10 to even go as an at-large team. If we're 10-2, that might be good enough to get us in- especially if our two losses are to say, Alabama and LSU on the road and are both close games.

The ONLY times we have ever had two loss regular (key word) seasons are 1980 and we were ranked 17th at the end of that year, 1999 and we were ranked 18th, and then the year we won the SEC West, we were 23rd. I'm using the ranking at the end of the regular season as opposed to the ranking at the end of the bowl because the committee is going to be looking at the ranking at the end of the regular season. So, even our three best teams in modern history probably wouldn't have gotten an invite to the bowl playoff.

NOW that can change potentially if we continue to do what we are doing. Dan has taken us from a 3-6 win type team to a 7-9 win type team. And that's the first step we have to take. And Coach is right about our model that we are using because that is going to lead to sustained stability by focusing on local talent with an emphasis on player development, family, and hard work. After we do that for a few years and we have success in the form of bowls and players going to the NFL and recruits see that what we are doing is working all the while getting support from the school in the form of facilities and raising coaching salaries- THEN we can hopefully take the next step up. But currently, a 10-13 win season would probably be classified as a "dream season" for us.

[smootness]

That is not at all what I get out of his post. He said "Anybody expecting us to win an SEC title is out of touch with reality". "An", as in "any". He further points out is has been 51 years since anyone outside the Big 6 have done it. Hardly think he uses that as his support statement unless he actually means an SEC Title is beyond our reach, period.

I disagree. And if you're one who thinks it's at least plausible that we could win one, then this coming year sure seems like it's as good an opportunity for us as we've had in our lifetimes. Yes, it's a long-shot, but just about everybody is something of a long-shot in the SEC West. Auburn is a long-shot, Bama & LSU less so, but still, there are some damn good football teams in our division nearly every year, with the lower-tier teams fully capable of taking one of the big dogs out on any given Saturday. May be getting more like that every year going forward.

I'm not sure what is confusing. Yes, he said 'an' as in 'any', but the word expecting means that State fans shouldn't expect to win any SEC title. It doesn't mean it can't be done, it means it should never be our expectation. I don't think that's unreasonable at all.

He pointed out that it's been 51 years since someone outside the Big 6 won an SEC title to show that based on history, anyone outside the Big 6 expecting an SEC title is likely to end up disappointed. Not that it is beyond our reach.

There's a difference between saying, 'We shouldn't expect it' and saying, 'We shouldn't ever hope it happens because it won't'.

You're saying the same thing by calling it a long shot. Anyone expecting something that is a long shot to actually happen is crazy. You're essentially saying you would put it on the list of fireable offenses for a coach for not doing within a certain time period. At Mississippi State, we can't fire our coach just because he didn't win an SEC title.

[blacklistedbully]

I'm not sure what is confusing. Yes, he said 'an' as in 'any', but the word expecting means that State fans shouldn't expect to win any SEC title. It doesn't mean it can't be done, it means it should never be our expectation. I don't think that's unreasonable at all.

He pointed out that it's been 51 years since someone outside the Big 6 won an SEC title to show that based on history, anyone outside the Big 6 expecting an SEC title is likely to end up disappointed. Not that it is beyond our reach.

There's a difference between saying, 'We shouldn't expect it' and saying, 'We shouldn't ever hope it happens because it won't'.

You're saying the same thing by calling it a long shot. Anyone expecting something that is a long shot to actually happen is crazy. You're essentially saying you would put it on the list of fireable offenses for a coach for not doing within a certain time period. At Mississippi State, we can't fire our coach just because he didn't win an SEC title.

Man, you are WAY outta line putting words in my mouth. I NEVER implied "not getting an SEC Championship is a fire-able offense. That's nonsense. And there is nothing that is confusing me. Please don't insinuate I'm having trouble following along. I assure you I am not. rather, I think you are the one who is struggling with understanding where I'm coming from.

My takeaway from Coach's post is that we should never, ever expect to win an SECCG. He was not talking about this year, next year, or the next 5 years. If he was, he chose his words poorly. And while I did say it is a long-shot to win, I also said it's a long-shot even for teams that have won it before because the division is almost always stacked with 2-4 legit NC contenders.

I absolutely do take exception to the notion that it's a pipe-dream to think it possible. And I absolutely do think this coming year is quite possibly the best opportunity we have had since 1998. We should be able to field a team capable of beating anyone and everyone in our division, assuming we don't beat ourselves, as we have far too often in our history. It is no secret LSU has lost A TON of starts coming into this year. Bama has also lost a lot, including their QB. Auburn has lost Mason, their best o-lineman, and a bunch on defense. TAMU has lost the 2 guys that carried that team despite the worst defense in the SEC. Without Manziel and Evans, those guys are probably fighting with Arky for last place THIS year.

All this to say, things set up nicely for us this year if we don't beat ourselves. Long-shot yes, but then it's also a long-shot for LSU, Bama & Auburn for the above-listed reasons. All will be rebuilding more than us, and only Auburn returns their QB. This the same auburn team we should have beaten this year and 4 of the past 4, yet here they sit defending SEC Champs.

You can argue our odds are longer than others, but think about who and really look at what challenges they face. It seems our biggest obstacle, other than not beating ourselves is the fact we haven't done it since WWII. But the other contenders are facing obstacles that are far more tangible and relevant.

[blacklistedbully]

Todd, I wasn't talking about the NC playoff, I was talking about winning the SEC West, and having a shot to win the SEC. If we can win the West, we've got a damn good chance of winning the SECCG. Win that, and we can see what happens.

As far as Archie is concerned, can you really picture him standing in the way of an SEC Champion MSU for the 4-team playoff? Don't you think that would ruin his reputation with everyone aside from Ole Miss fans? I hardly think he'd risk all that just to spite MSU.

Bottom line - win the SEC West and you get a great shot at winning the SEC. Win the SECCG and you're almost assuredly in the playoff.

So, I ask you, why is it crazy to think we have a decent shot this coming year? Who is going to stop us and why? It's easy to just name the big boys, but really stop and look at their situation this coming year and tell me you don't honestly think we should go into each & every game with a reasonable expectation of winning.

Please don't tell me we should lose to Bama because "we always have". That's like saying you can pretty much know what the next coin flip is gonna be because the previous 3 were tails. Yes, I know all things aren't equal, but the aforementioned forecast is based on the same faulty reasoning. Same is true of any team we play. If you're gonna say we don't stand much of a chance, tell me tangible reasons why we shouldn't this year.

[QuadrupleOption]

Todd, I wasn't talking about the NC playoff, I was talking about winning the SEC West, and having a shot to win the SEC. If we can win the West, we've got a damn good chance of winning the SECCG. Win that, and we can see what happens.

As far as Archie is concerned, can you really picture him standing in the way of an SEC Champion MSU for the 4-team playoff? Don't you think that would ruin his reputation with everyone aside from Ole Miss fans? I hardly think he'd risk all that just to spite MSU.

Bottom line - win the SEC West and you get a great shot at winning the SEC. Win the SECCG and you're almost assuredly in the playoff.

So, I ask you, why is it crazy to think we have a decent shot this coming year? Who is going to stop us and why? It's easy to just name the big boys, but really stop and look at their situation this coming year and tell me you don't honestly think we should go into each & every game with a reasonable expectation of winning.

Please don't tell me we should lose to Bama because "we always have". That's like saying you can pretty much know what the next coin flip is gonna be because the previous 3 were tails. Yes, I know all things aren't equal, but the aforementioned forecast is based on the same faulty reasoning. Same is true of any team we play. If you're gonna say we don't stand much of a chance, tell me tangible reasons why we shouldn't this year.

@LSU, @Bama, and @Ole Miss (rivalry game) is going to be a tough road slate for ANY team.

I think we have the opportunity to win a lot of games next season but I can't believe we'll beat LSU and Bama at their place until we do it.

[Todd4State]

Todd, I wasn't talking about the NC playoff, I was talking about winning the SEC West, and having a shot to win the SEC. If we can win the West, we've got a damn good chance of winning the SECCG. Win that, and we can see what happens.

As far as Archie is concerned, can you really picture him standing in the way of an SEC Champion MSU for the 4-team playoff? Don't you think that would ruin his reputation with everyone aside from Ole Miss fans? I hardly think he'd risk all that just to spite MSU.

Bottom line - win the SEC West and you get a great shot at winning the SEC. Win the SECCG and you're almost assuredly in the playoff.

So, I ask you, why is it crazy to think we have a decent shot this coming year? Who is going to stop us and why? It's easy to just name the big boys, but really stop and look at their situation this coming year and tell me you don't honestly think we should go into each & every game with a reasonable expectation of winning.

Please don't tell me we should lose to Bama because "we always have". That's like saying you can pretty much know what the next coin flip is gonna be because the previous 3 were tails. Yes, I know all things aren't equal, but the aforementioned forecast is based on the same faulty reasoning. Same is true of any team we play. If you're gonna say we don't stand much of a chance, tell me tangible reasons why we shouldn't this year.

I understand what you are talking about but I'm just trying to show you the reality of the new system and how it's going to work and what we would have to do to win a championship.

And yes, I do think Archie would do anything to keep MSU out of the championship round if at all possible. Look at the things that they've tried to do in the past to try to keep us down- getting us put on probation after Fant beat Eli in 2001 to get rid of Jackie, adopting players, the endless spin and media perception campaigns. Why do you think he WOULDN'T do it? Archie is untouchable. If anyone else tried to manipulate the draft like he did for Eli, they would have been black balled and Eli would have ended up playing for the Toronto Argonaughts. If we were undefeated, I don't think there is anything he could do about it. However, if we were 11-1 like Alabama was this year and last year I think he would make sure that we get the Sugar Bowl or whatever SEC bowl is highest that year to make sure we don't have even a miniscule chance of winning the NC.

Do we have a decent shot at a NC? I don't think so. Do we have a decent shot at the SEC? I don't think so. Can we go 9-3? I think so. That probably lands us in the Gator Bowl or at best the Capital One Bowl- which is fine with me. 10-2 might get us in the playoff in a NYD bowl. Auburn should be good, they'll be tough. LSU is on the road and that will be tough. Alabama is on the road and they return a lot of really good players whether they find a decent replacement for McCarron or not. If we win 2 out of those 3, we are going to have a dream season, more than likely we win 1 and not winning any of those is also not out of the realm of possibility. Especially since Dan appears to refuse to see the need for a special teams coach, and something like ST could very will be the difference in those games. Then the Egg Bowl is on the road and it's a rivalry game plus they are going to be motivated since we owned them last year, so that's not going to be easy. Unless they implode off the field and that carries over onto the field, which is not out of the realm of possibility. We should beat A&M and Arkansas at home. We should sweep Kentucky and Vandy. And we should sweep our OOC schedule.

[blacklistedbully]

@LSU, @Bama, and @Ole Miss (rivalry game) is going to be a tough road slate for ANY team.

I think we have the opportunity to win a lot of games next season but I can't believe we'll beat LSU and Bama at their place until we do it.


Ok, but why? What are the tangible reasons? Past performance has ZERO tangible credibility. Here are reasons why I think we should be considered a favorite:

Dak Prescott at QB, undisputed starter, not beginning the year throwing from a stool and backing up TR.
Mullen coaching a team lead by a QB made for his offense instead of trying to pound a square peg into a round hole.
Perkins graduating, meaning Mullen will not be able to force Perkins-up-the-middle on us time & again.
Runs between the tackles more likely to succeed with DP running the read option instead of TR.
Runs between the tackles more likely to succeed with JRob, Shump, or Griffin carrying the rock.
A defense that played better & better as the season went on under first year DC Collins, and as we overcame injuries. That D is mostly returning, as is that DC.
Experience and size at the WR spot.
Loss of Gabe Jackson hurts, but we get Malone back and overall we might be as good or better as a line. Can't replace GJ, but the upgrades at every other spot could soften the blow.
Bama losing McCarron and several other impact players.
LSU getting decimated with lost starts and depth.
Auburn is losing Tre Mason and key players on defense. Let's see if Nick Marshall continues to grow or has a "sophomore slump". No team can continue to live on blind luck as much as they have.
TAMU would have likely been in the cellar this past year w/o JFF & Evans. Both are gone.
Arky still rebuilding.
Ole Miss may be tough, but I still think they're on their way back down as Freeze's endless-bubble-screen offense has been exposed. If DP starts and plays whole game this past year, we probably humiliate them. Our D will be as good or better versus their offense, and our offense may well be much better assuming DP is healthy.

[HoopsDawg]

Notice you skip the second half of the quote. Why is that?

Cause Rick Ray sux and we will be lucky to win 4?!?1!1**

I can't respond to every dumbass thing you say, but yeah I underestimated the sucktitude of the SEC. Hopefully Ray can keep it going.

[engie]

I can't respond to every dumbass thing you say, but yeah I underestimated the sucktitude of the SEC. Hopefully Ray can keep it going.

Hilarious. Truly. How about being a man and admitting when you are wrong? It's real easy to do -- and it generally allows people to let go of the things they were right about in peace.

"Underestimated the suckitude of the SEC" = "I don't know jack shit about college basketball and was arguing out of my ass before". We told you then -- you just ignored it -- as I'm sure you will now. It doesn't take watching a helluva lot of games to know how very down the conference was this year and how very flawed almost every single team in it was.

But, by all means, keep informing me of how big of "dumbass" I am while neglecting to cite a single example.

[TUSK]

Most of this is true... most of the time.

Better have eexcellent coaching, as well.

[dawgclub99]

I agree and disagree with a lot of what some of you have said. You do have to have great coaching as well which is why Saban has won big and coaches like Miles and Richt have not. I have been happy with the way things have went recently but I want more. I want to put Ole Piss down where they belong and start beating teams like Bama, LSU, and A&M. The only way that I can see doing that is to recruit that type of talent to Starkville and so far Jackie is the only coach I have seen that has come close. I am still cautiously optimistic about 2014, but 11 wins is a real possibility with the way the schedule breaks down. #hailstate

[dawgs]

I hate to be the wet blanket here, but the only times that we would have been even close to making it to the College Football Playoff assuming it existed prior to this year would be 1980 and maybe 1999. 1998, possibly as well.

With the way that they are picking the teams to go to the final four playoff games, we are going to have to go 13-0 to make it, and then win both playoff games. As long as Archie Manning is on that committee picking the teams, we won't make it to the final four even if we go 12-1 with a last second loss to a Tebow era caliber Florida team in the SEC Championship Game. At 12-1, we may be thankful to just go to one of the other NYD bowl games associated with the playoffs. And after Archie leaves that committee, Peyton and Eli will almost surely follow him at some point.

Now, you might think that the Manning's are nice people (and probably are relative to today's standards) and you might like their commercials, respect them as football players and think that they are funny on SNL- which is all fine- but they are NOT friends of MSU football.

But, based on what I have read about the new college football playoff, and a lot of this is just guess work on my part since we have zero data, we're going to have to finish in the top 10 to even go as an at-large team. If we're 10-2, that might be good enough to get us in- especially if our two losses are to say, Alabama and LSU on the road and are both close games.

The ONLY times we have ever had two loss regular (key word) seasons are 1980 and we were ranked 17th at the end of that year, 1999 and we were ranked 18th, and then the year we won the SEC West, we were 23rd. I'm using the ranking at the end of the regular season as opposed to the ranking at the end of the bowl because the committee is going to be looking at the ranking at the end of the regular season. So, even our three best teams in modern history probably wouldn't have gotten an invite to the bowl playoff.

NOW that can change potentially if we continue to do what we are doing. Dan has taken us from a 3-6 win type team to a 7-9 win type team. And that's the first step we have to take. And Coach is right about our model that we are using because that is going to lead to sustained stability by focusing on local talent with an emphasis on player development, family, and hard work. After we do that for a few years and we have success in the form of bowls and players going to the NFL and recruits see that what we are doing is working all the while getting support from the school in the form of facilities and raising coaching salaries- THEN we can hopefully take the next step up. But currently, a 10-13 win season would probably be classified as a "dream season" for us.

there are like 20 other people besides archie on the committee. i don't think the rest of the committee is going to just give into archie's will if it's clear a 12-1 msu is one of the best 4 teams in the country. this committee knows they will be under the utmost scrutiny and say what you will, but i don't think any of them want to have their integrity questioned. if we went 12-1 and won the sec, then there'd have to be undefeated conference champs from the other big 4 conferences to keep us out. end of story. stop being paranoid.

[dawgs]

I understand what you are talking about but I'm just trying to show you the reality of the new system and how it's going to work and what we would have to do to win a championship.

And yes, I do think Archie would do anything to keep MSU out of the championship round if at all possible. Look at the things that they've tried to do in the past to try to keep us down- getting us put on probation after Fant beat Eli in 2001 to get rid of Jackie, adopting players, the endless spin and media perception campaigns. Why do you think he WOULDN'T do it? Archie is untouchable. If anyone else tried to manipulate the draft like he did for Eli, they would have been black balled and Eli would have ended up playing for the Toronto Argonaughts. If we were undefeated, I don't think there is anything he could do about it. However, if we were 11-1 like Alabama was this year and last year I think he would make sure that we get the Sugar Bowl or whatever SEC bowl is highest that year to make sure we don't have even a miniscule chance of winning the NC.

Do we have a decent shot at a NC? I don't think so. Do we have a decent shot at the SEC? I don't think so. Can we go 9-3? I think so. That probably lands us in the Gator Bowl or at best the Capital One Bowl- which is fine with me. 10-2 might get us in the playoff in a NYD bowl. Auburn should be good, they'll be tough. LSU is on the road and that will be tough. Alabama is on the road and they return a lot of really good players whether they find a decent replacement for McCarron or not. If we win 2 out of those 3, we are going to have a dream season, more than likely we win 1 and not winning any of those is also not out of the realm of possibility. Especially since Dan appears to refuse to see the need for a special teams coach, and something like ST could very will be the difference in those games. Then the Egg Bowl is on the road and it's a rivalry game plus they are going to be motivated since we owned them last year, so that's not going to be easy. Unless they implode off the field and that carries over onto the field, which is not out of the realm of possibility. We should beat A&M and Arkansas at home. We should sweep Kentucky and Vandy. And we should sweep our OOC schedule.

oh come the **** on, archie is not "untouchable". look at that committee, there's multiple former pro players, multiple former HoF caliber CFB coaches, former secretary of state, etc. why is archie more "untouchable" than tom ****ing osborne? jesus, some of you need to think about archie not in terms of how big he is in MS/Nola and look at him on a national level compared to the rest of the people that will be in that committee room with him. the reason eli survived the draft manipulation is because he had the talent to be a 2 time super bowl champ, not because archie is "untouchable". stop being paranoid, it's unbecoming.

[blacklistedbully]

I understand what you are talking about but I'm just trying to show you the reality of the new system and how it's going to work and what we would have to do to win a championship.

And yes, I do think Archie would do anything to keep MSU out of the championship round if at all possible. Look at the things that they've tried to do in the past to try to keep us down- getting us put on probation after Fant beat Eli in 2001 to get rid of Jackie, adopting players, the endless spin and media perception campaigns. Why do you think he WOULDN'T do it? Archie is untouchable. If anyone else tried to manipulate the draft like he did for Eli, they would have been black balled and Eli would have ended up playing for the Toronto Argonaughts. If we were undefeated, I don't think there is anything he could do about it. However, if we were 11-1 like Alabama was this year and last year I think he would make sure that we get the Sugar Bowl or whatever SEC bowl is highest that year to make sure we don't have even a miniscule chance of winning the NC.

Do we have a decent shot at a NC? I don't think so. Do we have a decent shot at the SEC? I don't think so. Can we go 9-3? I think so. That probably lands us in the Gator Bowl or at best the Capital One Bowl- which is fine with me. 10-2 might get us in the playoff in a NYD bowl. Auburn should be good, they'll be tough. LSU is on the road and that will be tough. Alabama is on the road and they return a lot of really good players whether they find a decent replacement for McCarron or not. If we win 2 out of those 3, we are going to have a dream season, more than likely we win 1 and not winning any of those is also not out of the realm of possibility. Especially since Dan appears to refuse to see the need for a special teams coach, and something like ST could very will be the difference in those games. Then the Egg Bowl is on the road and it's a rivalry game plus they are going to be motivated since we owned them last year, so that's not going to be easy. Unless they implode off the field and that carries over onto the field, which is not out of the realm of possibility. We should beat A&M and Arkansas at home. We should sweep Kentucky and Vandy. And we should sweep our OOC schedule.


Todd, If Archie tried to do that, he'd not only look like a petty, biased idiot in front of the whole nation, he'd have Slive and the SEC offices all over his ass. There is far too much money on the line for Archie to be "untouchable" on something like that. I'm sure he knows it. Can you really imagine the meeting with the selectors, MSU winners of the SEC with an 11-1 record, and the other selectors buying into Archie lobbying to exclude the SEC champion obviously because we are a rival school? Besides that, I just have a hard time believing Archie would be that petty.

[Johnson85]

If anyone else tried to manipulate the draft like he did for Eli, they would have been black balled and Eli would have ended up playing for the Toronto Argonaughts.

Like John Elway??? Is Toronto where he won his super bowls?

[Todd4State]

Like John Elway??? Is Toronto where he won his super bowls?

There was quite a bit of backlash when Elway left the Colts- a LOT more than what Eli got. Plus Elway had the baseball option- Eli didn't. On top of that Elway is a lot better than Eli.

[Todd4State]

Todd, If Archie tried to do that, he'd not only look like a petty, biased idiot in front of the whole nation, he'd have Slive and the SEC offices all over his ass. There is far too much money on the line for Archie to be "untouchable" on something like that. I'm sure he knows it. Can you really imagine the meeting with the selectors, MSU winners of the SEC with an 11-1 record, and the other selectors buying into Archie lobbying to exclude the SEC champion obviously because we are a rival school? Besides that, I just have a hard time believing Archie would be that petty.

He wouldn't look like a petty biased idiot in front of the whole nation. What goes on behind committee doors is kept secret. I highly doubt the rest of the nation would even know. If he's petty enough to manipulate the NFL draft, why wouldn't he be petty enough to manipulate the college football playoffs?

Ole Miss fans and people use football to try to make themselves feel more superior than us. They freak out when we beat them- which lately has become quite often. When we become better than them, they run to the NCAA in an effort to keep us down and will do anything to keep us down. And as far as Ole Miss fans being rational- ever see Yancy's site? NAFOOM? Archie is one of them.

[dawgs]

He wouldn't look like a petty biased idiot in front of the whole nation. What goes on behind committee doors is kept secret. I highly doubt the rest of the nation would even know. If he's petty enough to manipulate the NFL draft, why wouldn't he be petty enough to manipulate the college football playoffs?

Ole Miss fans and people use football to try to make themselves feel more superior than us. They freak out when we beat them- which lately has become quite often. When we become better than them, they run to the NCAA in an effort to keep us down and will do anything to keep us down. And as far as Ole Miss fans being rational- ever see Yancy's site? NAFOOM? Archie is one of them.

if we are 12-1 and sec champs and there aren't 4 undefeated major conference champs, then he'd get voted down 20-1 or whatever depending on how many people are on the committee. what's he going to do? threaten to not vote for another member's program unless they don't vote for msu? i highly highly doubt that 1 dissenter is going to have much sway over the rest of a very distinguished and well-respected group of people.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f3/Tin_foil_hat_2.jpg

[smootness]

There was quite a bit of backlash when Elway left the Colts- a LOT more than what Eli got. Plus Elway had the baseball option- Eli didn't. On top of that Elway is a lot better than Eli.

That's because the Colts actually drafted Elway. The Chargers didn't draft Eli, they listened and traded and got Rivers. There was some backlash leading up to the draft, and I guarantee you Eli would have heard it just as much as Elway did had the Chargers drafted him and he pulled the same thing Elway did.

[Todd4State]

if we are 12-1 and sec champs and there aren't 4 undefeated major conference champs, then he'd get voted down 20-1 or whatever depending on how many people are on the committee. what's he going to do? threaten to not vote for another member's program unless they don't vote for msu? i highly highly doubt that 1 dissenter is going to have much sway over the rest of a very distinguished and well-respected group of people.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f3/Tin_foil_hat_2.jpg

That's why I said we would have to go 13-0 and make it obvious and leave no other choice. Regardless, my point is not that having Archie would 100% totally keep us out in any and every situation. My point is as long as he is on the committee, it's something that's not in our favor and would greatly hinder us if we are ever in that position. And if there ever IS any question or doubt, we're probably not going to get the benefit of the doubt.

Archie is one of the most respected people in all of football today. I would say that his opinion would hold a lot more weight than Condeleeza Rice on that committee. It's mostly a group of athletic directors- and much like this board and in other forums, people that have actually played the game opinions carry more weight.

The best thing that could happen for us would be for Stricklin or Keenum to be on that committee in place of Jeff Long of Arkansas.

You can believe that if you want to or not- I'm sure you would have given me a tin foil hat picture a few years ago for saying that the Tuohy's adopted one of the top offensive tackles in the country with the intent on sending him to Ole Miss as well. But the bottom line is Archie is not a friend of MSU and hates us no matter how "good" of a person he is.

[Todd4State]

That's because the Colts actually drafted Elway. The Chargers didn't draft Eli, they listened and traded and got Rivers. There was some backlash leading up to the draft, and I guarantee you Eli would have heard it just as much as Elway did had the Chargers drafted him and he pulled the same thing Elway did.

That's not exactly true. The Chargers did indeed draft Eli with the first pick. They just traded shortly later in the draft for Philip Rivers.

http://blog.newscom.com/athletes-in-focus-eli-manning/

And he does get jeered in San Diego for it. No one else in the NFL seems to care.

[dawgs]

That's not exactly true. The Chargers did indeed draft Eli with the first pick. They just traded shortly later in the draft for Philip Rivers.

http://blog.newscom.com/athletes-in-focus-eli-manning/

And he does get jeered in San Diego for it. No one else in the NFL seems to care.

everyone thought it was a douche move by the mannings. it happened a decade ago though. just like you don't hear people bring up elway's demands anymore. it's old news. and by "shortly later" you mean pretty much as soon as rivers was drafted by the giants. the deal was in place prior to rivers being selected, it was just pending rivers getting picks by the giants.

[dawgs]

That's why I said we would have to go 13-0 and make it obvious and leave no other choice. Regardless, my point is not that having Archie would 100% totally keep us out in any and every situation. My point is as long as he is on the committee, it's something that's not in our favor and would greatly hinder us if we are ever in that position. And if there ever IS any question or doubt, we're probably not going to get the benefit of the doubt.

Archie is one of the most respected people in all of football today. I would say that his opinion would hold a lot more weight than Condeleeza Rice on that committee. It's mostly a group of athletic directors- and much like this board and in other forums, people that have actually played the game opinions carry more weight.

The best thing that could happen for us would be for Stricklin or Keenum to be on that committee in place of Jeff Long of Arkansas.

You can believe that if you want to or not- I'm sure you would have given me a tin foil hat picture a few years ago for saying that the Tuohy's adopted one of the top offensive tackles in the country with the intent on sending him to Ole Miss as well. But the bottom line is Archie is not a friend of MSU and hates us no matter how "good" of a person he is.

there are 2 ways we'll ever potentially be considered fora 4 team playoff: 1) undefeated season and 2) 1 L season, but still win the conference. that's pretty much it. i don't see may situations where a 12-1 SEC champion is going to get left out for anything less than all the champs of the big 10, acc, big 12, and pac 12 going undefeated. there's a very very slim chance of that happening. and for it to happen in the 1 year we manage to put together a 12-1 conference championship season, then that's just bad luck on our part, not any backroom dealings by archie to keep us out of the playoff.

i mean, what is archie going to say? that the sec sucked and that's the only reason we won? a simple eye test or glance as SoS and rankings (human and computer) could nullify or justify that position very very quickly. these aren't dumbasses looking to believe whatever archie says without using their own knowledge and all the information available to them.

[Todd4State]

everyone thought it was a douche move by the mannings. it happened a decade ago though. just like you don't hear people bring up elway's demands anymore. it's old news. and by "shortly later" you mean pretty much as soon as rivers was drafted by the giants. the deal was in place prior to rivers being selected, it was just pending rivers getting picks by the giants.

So, what's your point? Smootness said he wasn't drafted by the Chargers. He was. And yes, by "shortly later" I mean after the Giants drafted Rivers. They could have very well swapped picks before the draft started and then had the Giants select him first. THAT would have been the Chargers never drafting him. That's NOT what happened though- any deals agreed to beforehand are irrelevant. Heck, he held up a Chargers jersey and took a picture with it. I don't understand the debate here?

Sorry to bust on your favorite football family Hatfield.

[smootness]

So, what's your point? Smootness said he wasn't drafted by the Chargers. He was. And yes, by "shortly later" I mean after the Giants drafted Rivers. They could have very well swapped picks before the draft started and then had the Giants select him first. THAT would have been the Chargers never drafting him. That's NOT what happened though- any deals agreed to beforehand are irrelevant. Heck, he held up a Chargers jersey and took a picture with it. I don't understand the debate here?

Sorry to bust on your favorite football family Hatfield.

Ok, yes, technically the Chargers are the ones who drafted him. But everyone knew they were going to be trading the pick to the Giants, so the point stands. The reason he didn't originally get killed like Elway did (and like dawgs said, there definitely was some heat) is because there wasn't much to go nuts over by then.

The reason Elway's blew up is because he was drafted by the Colts and completely snubbed them. Yes, he had said the same thing Eli said leading up to it, but he actually had the chance to do it, and he did. Eli knew he wasn't actually drafted by San Diego, he knew he was being traded already.

[Todd4State]

there are 2 ways we'll ever potentially be considered fora 4 team playoff: 1) undefeated season and 2) 1 L season, but still win the conference. that's pretty much it. i don't see may situations where a 12-1 SEC champion is going to get left out for anything less than all the champs of the big 10, acc, big 12, and pac 12 going undefeated. there's a very very slim chance of that happening. and for it to happen in the 1 year we manage to put together a 12-1 conference championship season, then that's just bad luck on our part, not any backroom dealings by archie to keep us out of the playoff.

i mean, what is archie going to say? that the sec sucked and that's the only reason we won? Probably. If anyone is going to come up with a lame excuse against MSU, it's an Ole Miss person. a simple eye test or glance as SoS and rankings (human and computer) could nullify or justify that position very very quickly. They aren't supposed to be using computer rankings anymore. We'll see about that though- no one really and truly knows what is going to happen until the first one actually takes place this year. these aren't dumbasses looking to believe whatever archie says without using their own knowledge and all the information available to them.

So, if we go 11-1 and don't win the SEC which is what Bama did this year, you are saying we in a fair and objective world and society shouldn't make it to the four team playoff? Let's say we did EXACTLY what Alabama did- and lost to Auburn on the road on a last second play. And let's say that Auburn ended up winning the West. That would mean that we beat Alabama and LSU, Texas A&M on the road, at Tennessee (Bama played Kentucky and has UT as a permanant OOC, so I just flipped them for this scenario) that we shouldn't merit consideration for the four team playoff?

I totally disagree with that- and THAT is the exact type of a scenario that an Archie Manning is going to nail us on. And probably by saying "well, they didn't win their conference" even though we all know that Alabama with the EXACT same resume would without a doubt get in. And same with Florida, Georgia, LSU, Auburn, and Texas A&M- and probably Tennessee and South Carolina for that matter too.

[Todd4State]

Ok, yes, technically the Chargers are the ones who drafted him. But everyone knew they were going to be trading the pick to the Giants, so the point stands. The reason he didn't originally get killed like Elway did (and like dawgs said, there definitely was some heat) is because there wasn't much to go nuts over by then.

The reason Elway's blew up is because he was drafted by the Colts and completely snubbed them. Yes, he had said the same thing Eli said leading up to it, but he actually had the chance to do it, and he did. Eli knew he wasn't actually drafted by San Diego, he knew he was being traded already.

That's not what this article says. Not to mention it makes ZERO sense to allow someone to draft a player and thus control their rights and risk getting royally screwed over when you can simply trade for the pick and not have to go through the risk.

http://www.nj.com/giants/index.ssf/2013/12/the_longest_yard_former_giants_gm_relives_the_five _minutes_his_trade_for_eli_manning_was_in_limbo.ht ml

But what does Ernie Accorsi know?

[dawgs]

So, if we go 11-1 and don't win the SEC which is what Bama did this year, you are saying we in a fair and objective world and society shouldn't make it to the four team playoff? Let's say we did EXACTLY what Alabama did- and lost to Auburn on the road on a last second play. And let's say that Auburn ended up winning the West. That would mean that we beat Alabama and LSU, Texas A&M on the road, at Tennessee (Bama played Kentucky and has UT as a permanant OOC, so I just flipped them for this scenario) that we shouldn't merit consideration for the four team playoff?

I totally disagree with that- and THAT is the exact type of a scenario that an Archie Manning is going to nail us on. And probably by saying "well, they didn't win their conference" even though we all know that Alabama with the EXACT same resume would without a doubt get in. And same with Florida, Georgia, LSU, Auburn, and Texas A&M- and probably Tennessee and South Carolina for that matter too.

No one said they aren't going to look at computer rankings, they just aren't married to computer rankings. It's one of many factors they'll consider but there's no set formula. That's all. But they'll absolutely use numbers like that to determine SOS.

As for the us v. Bama debate, well when we have a run like Bama, we'll get the benefit of that doubt. That's just the way it is, has nothing to do with Archie. Programs with little history of real national success aren't going to get those breaks. Just look at Oklahoma st 2 years ago. If you think this would be limited to just us because of Archie you are W.R.O.N.G.

[dawgs]

Also worth noting that the eye test is just another factor the committee will consider. If we beat teams like Bama did last year, we'll have a much better shot than if we kept squeaking out Ws.

Everyone in the country thinks ole miss is a mid-tier program just like us, yet state fans act like they pull all the strings behind the curtains.

[blacklistedbully]

He wouldn't look like a petty biased idiot in front of the whole nation. What goes on behind committee doors is kept secret. I highly doubt the rest of the nation would even know. If he's petty enough to manipulate the NFL draft, why wouldn't he be petty enough to manipulate the college football playoffs?

Ole Miss fans and people use football to try to make themselves feel more superior than us. They freak out when we beat them- which lately has become quite often. When we become better than them, they run to the NCAA in an effort to keep us down and will do anything to keep us down. And as far as Ole Miss fans being rational- ever see Yancy's site? NAFOOM? Archie is one of them.

Todd, you impress me as one of the more level-headed, informed intelligent posters on this board. I almost always agree with what you say, but just can't on this one. If MSU went 11-1 , won the SECCG and [I]didn't get selected to the playoff[I], that would be HUGE national news. There is simply NO WAY any SEC team could do that and get bypassed without every major media outlet with a sports department going nuts over it.

It could be the biggest story of the year. Archie's deal with Eli was for his son, and few faulted him for that. He was looking out for his son's best interest. And Elway had already established precedent. Yes, Ole Miss fans and alum are capable of, and have stooped to new lows in their desperation to put or keep us down. But we don't really know how much Archie has to do with that. I see him more as promoting OM as much as possible, rather than attacking MSU.

In any case, I just don't see Archie sacrificing his integrity, reputation and dignity by pulling such an obvious, unfair and juvenile move. Yes, he loves Ole Miss. Sure, I don't think he'd want us to make it. But I just don't see how he could or would stand in our way if we deserved it. I wouldn't expect him to lobby for us, but I would not expect him to circumvent the process just to screw us. And even if he would do something like that, I don't think the rest of the committee would stand for it.

[Todd4State]

No one said they aren't going to look at computer rankings, they just aren't married to computer rankings. It's one of many factors they'll consider but there's no set formula. That's all. But they'll absolutely use numbers like that to determine SOS.

As for the us v. Bama debate, well when we have a run like Bama, we'll get the benefit of that doubt. That's just the way it is, has nothing to do with Archie. Programs with little history of real national success aren't going to get those breaks. Just look at Oklahoma st 2 years ago. If you think this would be limited to just us because of Archie you are W.R.O.N.G.

We aren't going to have a run like Bama if we're not allowed to in the first place. Teams Oklahoma State are why they have put in this new system. That's irrelevant because we aren't Oklahoma State nor or we in the Big 12. Not to mention that Oklahoma State doesn't have a member on the board that is obviously going to be biased against them.

Here's the selection criteria:

"What criteria will the selection committee use to rank the teams?


Selection committee members will have flexibility to examine whatever data they believe is relevant to inform their decisions. They will also review a significant amount of game video. Among the many factors the committee will consider are win-loss record, strength of schedule, head-to-head results, comparison of results against common opponents and conference championships. Each committee member will evaluate the data at hand, and then the individuals will come together to make a group decision."

Yes- there is no way that someone like Archie Manning could manipulate or spin ANY of that against us.** Ole Miss 31 National Champs 30?

But if we go 12-1 without winning the SEC, I'm going to sleep well at night that good old Archie is going to take care of us since we are certain to pass his "eye" test.

[GovernorMullen]

When last time ole piss had an 8 win or 9 win season within years much less 2-3. Remeber ole miss lost 23 of 24 SEC games before 2012.

[Todd4State]

Also worth noting that the eye test is just another factor the committee will consider. If we beat teams like Bama did last year, we'll have a much better shot than if we kept squeaking out Ws.

Everyone in the country thinks ole miss is a mid-tier program just like us, yet state fans act like they pull all the strings behind the curtains.

And if we're both 12-1, which one do you think Archie is picking? And let's assume we won the Egg Bowl and our loss is in the SEC Championship Game for arguments sake.

No one in this thread is saying that Ole Miss ISN'T a mid-tier program. But they do have some connections in high places in football- Archie being the highest. He's President of the National Football Foundation. If you don't think his opinion when it comes to football is highly respected, I can't help you.

And FWIW- I don't think that Ole Miss pulls all the strings as much as MSU doesn't do as good a job in general of controlling the media. But that's another thread. I'm sure the Clarion-Ledger appreciates your support.

[dawgs]

Explain to me how Archie will brainwash Tom Osborne, Oliver luck, Barry Alvarez, etc. into having a bias against msu. They'll have information available to counter Archie's points if he were in there countering against us and there was valid data supporting our inclusion. End of story.

[Todd4State]

Todd, you impress me as one of the more level-headed, informed intelligent posters on this board. I almost always agree with what you say, but just can't on this one. If MSU went 11-1 , won the SECCG and [I]didn't get selected to the playoff[I], that would be HUGE national news. There is simply NO WAY any SEC team could do that and get bypassed without every major media outlet with a sports department going nuts over it.

It could be the biggest story of the year. Archie's deal with Eli was for his son, and few faulted him for that. He was looking out for his son's best interest. And Elway had already established precedent. Yes, Ole Miss fans and alum are capable of, and have stooped to new lows in their desperation to put or keep us down. But we don't really know how much Archie has to do with that. I see him more as promoting OM as much as possible, rather than attacking MSU.

In any case, I just don't see Archie sacrificing his integrity, reputation and dignity by pulling such an obvious, unfair and juvenile move. Yes, he loves Ole Miss. Sure, I don't think he'd want us to make it. But I just don't see how he could or would stand in our way if we deserved it. I wouldn't expect him to lobby for us, but I would not expect him to circumvent the process just to screw us. And even if he would do something like that, I don't think the rest of the committee would stand for it.

I'm fine with people disagreeing with me- but I hope you are disagreeing with me because you think I'm wrong and not because you don't want to believe I'm right. At least you have the sense to agree that he wouldn't help us if at all possible- and that's my point. If we go 13-0, there's nothing he can do. The silver lining is he will rotate off the committee at some point. It's not the slam dunk situation that we would have to worry about- it's the there may be some doubt situation that we do.

I don't know what your definition of petty is, but one of the main reasons why Eli didn't go to San Diego is because they wanted the possibility of an All-Manning Super Bowl. Peyton didn't sign with the 49ers a couple of years ago in part for the same reason. I always thought it was interesting that he wanted Eli to go to the biggest media center in the country as well. I'm not sure if that's petty, but they definitely know marketing.

[Todd4State]

Explain to me how Archie will brainwash Tom Osborne, Oliver luck, Barry Alvarez, etc. into having a bias against msu. They'll have information available to counter Archie's points if he were in there countering against us and there was valid data supporting our inclusion. End of story.

Explain to me why he wouldn't? They may or may not agree with him or even go with him, but him saying negative things about us is not going to help us no matter how much you refuse to believe it. Osborne, Luck, and Alvarez don't give a crap about is. Like it would hurt their feelings to not put a SEC team in.

[smootness]

That's not what this article says. Not to mention it makes ZERO sense to allow someone to draft a player and thus control their rights and risk getting royally screwed over when you can simply trade for the pick and not have to go through the risk.

http://www.nj.com/giants/index.ssf/2013/12/the_longest_yard_former_giants_gm_relives_the_five _minutes_his_trade_for_eli_manning_was_in_limbo.ht ml

But what does Ernie Accorsi know?

The reason they didn't just go ahead and trade picks is because the Giants wanted Rivers. At 4, they weren't guaranteed Rivers. So rather than trade down and risk losing out on the QB they wanted, they would rather take Manning and wait to see what happened. The agreement was that if Rivers fell to the Giants, they'd take Rivers and swap. If Rivers didn't fall, then the Chargers still had a nice bargaining chip.

But the public was let in that the agreement was there, and Eli knew about it, which is why he didn't have to do what Elway did.

People were upset with Elway more because of what he did after the draft, not leading up to it. Eli didn't have to do that. That was my entire point.

It's either that, or the entire country gives Archie Manning a pass on everything over John and Jack Elway. Living in GA, I can assure you that most of the country couldn't really care less about Archie Manning.

[Todd4State]

The reason they didn't just go ahead and trade picks is because the Giants wanted Rivers. At 4, they weren't guaranteed Rivers. So rather than trade down and risk losing out on the QB they wanted, they would rather take Manning and wait to see what happened. The agreement was that if Rivers fell to the Giants, they'd take Rivers and swap. If Rivers didn't fall, then the Chargers still had a nice bargaining chip.

But the public was let in that the agreement was there, and Eli knew about it, which is why he didn't have to do what Elway did.

People were upset with Elway more because of what he did after the draft, not leading up to it. Eli didn't have to do that. That was my entire point.

It's either that, or the entire country gives Archie Manning a pass on everything over John and Jack Elway. Living in GA, I can assure you that most of the country couldn't really care less about Archie Manning.

You've gone from the Chargers didn't draft Eli to this? LOL.

Look- I'm sure there were some rumors about a trade- but that hardly means that a trade was a done deal. And based on what Ernie Accorsi said, it wasn't a done deal either. You're pretty much calling him a liar when he has no reason to lie about anything.

A big difference is that Elway's thing drug out for a long period of time- meaning that it was in the news longer. Eli was traded within an hour or so of being drafted by the Chargers.

I don't really care what the country thinks about Archie. In this case, I care about what Archie would think about MSU in a bowl playoff situation.