Geoff Collins

[Tough Dawg]

I know C34 has stated numerous times he's getting a raise. I get that. What I don't understand is the timing and lack of communication around it.

Do it now and it shows stability and continuity on the defensive coaching staff. The longer the wait the more questions are perceived by the public fan base. I'm sure GC and Mullen are telling the recruits things concerning this issue that we don't hear to give them a price of mind.

If I'm the AD I give raises/extensions right now. Especially after this Bruce Feldman report.

The timing and lack of communication is starting to piss me off.

[smootness]

Why would the lack of public knowledge make you mad? We know it's coming, anyone who doesn't think Collins is getting a raise is crazy. So who cares when it's announced? Recruits don't care about how much a coach makes, they just want to know they'll be there.

[RiverCityDawg]

I know C34 has stated numerous times he's getting a raise. I get that. What I don't understand is the timing and lack of communication around it.

Do it now and it shows stability and continuity on the defensive coaching staff. The longer the wait the more questions are perceived by the public fan base. I'm sure GC and Mullen are telling the recruits things concerning this issue that we don't hear to give them a price of mind.

If I'm the AD I give raises/extensions right now. Especially after this Bruce Feldman report.

The timing and lack of communication is starting to piss me off.


They'll announce it when the staff is settled. I guarantee Collins already knows what he's getting.

[#660000]

I hope Stricklin can continue to say that no coach has left for financial reasons come this time next week.

[deltadawg99]

I would be willing to bet that Collins and the powers that be know what his pay increase will be.

Just because it isn't out in the media doesn't mean that there isn't some behind the scenes stuff.

[Tough Dawg]

It irritates me more than anything. Communication/action early in a situation like this is the way to go IMO. What benefits are there in waiting if "it's going to happen"? If I'm the AD I want the public perception of me doing my job as confident and getting things done. The longer it drags out the more I question these things about SS.

[Coach34]

Collins knows he is getting it and knows exactly what his salary will be....I'm not seeing the problem? Because they havent told you?

[Tough Dawg]

What is our track record for keeping what is perceived as talented coordinators/assistants lately?

[smootness]

It irritates me more than anything. Communication/action early in a situation like this is the way to go IMO. What benefits are there in waiting if "it's going to happen"? If I'm the AD I want the public perception of me doing my job as confident and getting things done. The longer it drags out the more I question these things about SS.

Then the problem is you, not Stricklin. You don't have some right to know about everything as it's happening. I always love people who say things like this - 'So-and-so needs to do x and y, because even though it has no bearing on the job he's actually doing, if he doesn't do it my opinion of him will go down for no reason, so he should do it'.

[The Croom Diaries]

Yes, he's getting a raise - but how much is the question. I mean, hell, if Strick just offered $400K per year Collins may very well have accepted it because he just got a $109K raise. But that doesn't stop him for looking for more elsewhere.

One of 2 things has happened:

1. We haven't agreed to anything with Collins yet.

2. We have agreed to an amount but it still embarrassingly low.

IF YOU SIGN YOUR D.C. TO A BIG INCREASE YOU BRAG THE HELL OUT OF IT. Odds are Strick is probably going no higher than $400K and Collins is still the lowest paid DC in the SEC by $80K. I hope like hell I'm wrong, but I bet you Strick is going to wet the bed on this. If we let Collins get away and he makes anything less than $750 I'm done with Strick.

[Coach34]

I have heard we bumped Collins to $500K

[Ifyouonlyknew]

That is correct. If we lose Collins it's because he wants to go to FSU not bc we low balled him.


I have heard we bumped Collins to $500K

[Big4Dawg]

If they take Collins, i say we turn around and take Charles Kelly.

http://footballrecruiting.rivals.com/viewcoach.asp?Coach=1809

He is their ST Coach btw.

[ShotgunDawg]

I just saw where Bruce Feldman tweeted about Collins being a candidate. He is in with the Rebs, so who knows if there is any accuracy in his reports on anything MSU related.

[Tough Dawg]

We love you too. From recent history our fan base goes into a situation like this with the mentality of it's just a matter of time before one of the "big boys" in college football comes and gets Collins. They have this mentality for good reasons. This is a message board and I get to play like I'm the AD in this situation. Why not change this mentality of your fan base by taking action sooner than later? I know this doesn't guarantee anybody turning down more money for a bigger job, but I say again (this is a message board and I get to play like I'm the AD) it shows that you took the appropriate actions to keep him. Just my opinion. We haven't lost anybody yet.

[missouridawg]

I know C34 has stated numerous times he's getting a raise. I get that. What I don't understand is the timing and lack of communication around it.

Do it now and it shows stability and continuity on the defensive coaching staff. The longer the wait the more questions are perceived by the public fan base. I'm sure GC and Mullen are telling the recruits things concerning this issue that we don't hear to give them a price of mind.

If I'm the AD I give raises/extensions right now. Especially after this Bruce Feldman report.

The timing and lack of communication is starting to piss me off.

I'll never get why our fans feel like they deserve every ounce of information at the first moment that it becomes available. Let Scott do his job.

[The Croom Diaries]

I have heard we bumped Collins to $500K

So after he fields a defense, full of young athletes, in the top half of the SEC we pay him the lowest salary any SEC defensive coordinator is making. That is still low-balling. He is worth $600K minimum.

[Coach34]

So after he fields a defense, full of young athletes, in the top half of the SEC we pay him the lowest salary any SEC defensive coordinator is making. That is still low-balling. He is worth $600K minimum.

He also lives in the lowest standard of living area of the SEC as well. Plus, State gives some other perks that arent in his contract

[maroonmania]

So after he fields a defense, full of young athletes, in the top half of the SEC we pay him the lowest salary any SEC defensive coordinator is making. That is still low-balling. He is worth $600K minimum.

Well 500K is a good start although he would still be making less that what OM pays their DC.

[ShotgunDawg]

The biggest problem, in my mind, if Collins leaves, is the realization that MSU would have a glass ceiling as a football program. The realization that MSU can do everything right, hire right, recruit right, and run their business at a higher level than other, but lose all of that because other program can simply steal away our coaches.

How is MSU supposed gain ground and overcome our superiors if we can't hold onto the people that are building MSU the right way. This isn't an MSU vs OM thing, and OM should be just as worried about this type of stuff as MSU. This issue cuts the heart of the program, and ask the question of how MSU fans are supposed to have hope, when doing everything right just causes more established programs to come in and raid your coaching staff.

It's very discouraging.

[Tough Dawg]

That's not my point. I don't deserve to hear every little detail of the negotiations between SS and DC. My point is if I'm the AD I would have handled it differently from a PR standpoint. That's it. Back to your normal programming. We'll see how this thing plays out.

[The Croom Diaries]

The biggest problem, in my mind, if Collins leaves, is the realization that MSU would have a glass ceiling as a football program. The realization that MSU can do everything right, hire right, recruit right, and run their business at a higher level than other, but lose all of that because other program can simply steal away our coaches.

How is MSU supposed gain ground and overcome our superiors if we can't hold onto the people that are building MSU the right way. This isn't an MSU vs OM thing, and OM should be just as worried about this type of stuff as MSU. This issue cuts the heart of the program, and ask the question of how MSU fans are supposed to have hope, when doing everything right just causes more established programs to come in and raid your coaching staff.

It's very discouraging.

That is well said. Every time we get an inch it is taken away. Do it enough times and fans will become disillusioned. They'll say - 'why should I join / give more money to the Bulldog club if we aren't going to use that money the right way...we will never amount to anything more than mediocre'.

We could pay our assistants if we made it a priority. Forget about building new softball complex or perks for this sport or that. Forget about having 20 SIDs and make 2 people do it. There are ways to find money in our budget we just have to get it done. The problem is it's not a priority. We are just trying to create an "experience" instead of creating a winning football program. That's a reflection on leadership.

[Coach34]

The biggest problem, in my mind, if Collins leaves, is the realization that MSU would have a glass ceiling as a football program. The realization that MSU can do everything right, hire right, recruit right, and run their business at a higher level than other, but lose all of that because other program can simply steal away our coaches.

How is MSU supposed gain ground and overcome our superiors if we can't hold onto the people that are building MSU the right way. This isn't an MSU vs OM thing, and OM should be just as worried about this type of stuff as MSU. This issue cuts the heart of the program, and ask the question of how MSU fans are supposed to have hope, when doing everything right just causes more established programs to come in and raid your coaching staff.

It's very discouraging.

That's the way it works. Fla State is NCAA royalty. Miss State, OM, Kentucky, Vandy, etc....are not.

LSU stole Michigan State's coach and he became a legend
Miami stole Ok State's coach who went on to become a legend and Super Bowl winner
Alabama stole the Miami Dolphins coach who had become a legend from LSU
LSU stole Ok State's coach

The big dawgs get who they want

[The Croom Diaries]

Well 500K is a good start although he would still be making less that what OM pays their DC.

You're right, $500K is a good START. He should have been making that in 2013 in his first year because that is the going rate for SEC DC's. He was the lowest paid by nearly $200 ($291K-$480K, UT). Now this year (2014) he should be making $600K. We ought to make up for it and pay him $700K this year. I bet you if we did that he'd say no thanks to anyone else, because no one is going to come in offering that much more, and he's got a good nucleus coming back and a handful of new SEC QB's next year where he could make his mark and either land a very high paying DC job or head coaching job in 2015.

[Tough Dawg]

These 2 statements are in-line with what I'm trying to say at a high level. If I'm leadership at MSU right now I'm doing what I can to CHANGE this perception. And I'm doing it out front and in the public. Like James Franklin said during a halftime speech: "Change your circumstances!" Proof: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xOFn8H0GA4

[messageboardsuperhero]

That is well said. Every time we get an inch it is taken away. Do it enough times and fans will become disillusioned. They'll say - 'why should I join / give more money to the Bulldog club if we aren't going to use that money the right way...we will never amount to anything more than mediocre'.

We could pay our assistants if we made it a priority. Forget about building new softball complex or perks for this sport or that. Forget about having 20 SIDs and make 2 people do it. There are ways to find money in our budget we just have to get it done. The problem is it's not a priority. We are just trying to create an "experience" instead of creating a winning football program. That's a reflection on leadership.

You're right, $500K is a good START. He should have been making that in 2013 in his first year because that is the going rate for SEC DC's. He was the lowest paid by nearly $200 ($291K-$480K, UT). Now this year (2014) he should be making $600K. We ought to make up for it and pay him $700K this year. I bet you if we did that he'd say no thanks to anyone else, because no one is going to come in offering that much more, and he's got a good nucleus coming back and a handful of new SEC QB's next year where he could make his mark and either land a very high paying DC job or head coaching job in 2015.

I agree with both of these. Assistant coach's salaries should not be an afterthought.

We should never hire a DC and pay him less than $500K. Period. That is just what SEC DCs are paid. The fact that our DC's salary is only 60% of what the next lowest paid is making in the conference is ****ing embarrassing, and it reflects very poorly on our football program. Quit being cheap Stricklin- this is the SEC. I KNOW we can pay more, because we bring in more revenue than UM and Mizzou- and both of their DCs make WAY more than Collins.

[Big4Dawg]

Franklin isn't the best example to use about a coaching leaving for a 'better' school....considering he just level Vandy.

[Tough Dawg]

That was more of a joke. However the speech is a good one.

[preachermatt83]

The biggest problem, in my mind, if Collins leaves, is the realization that MSU would have a glass ceiling as a football program. The realization that MSU can do everything right, hire right, recruit right, and run their business at a higher level than other, but lose all of that because other program can simply steal away our coaches.

How is MSU supposed gain ground and overcome our superiors if we can't hold onto the people that are building MSU the right way. This isn't an MSU vs OM thing, and OM should be just as worried about this type of stuff as MSU. This issue cuts the heart of the program, and ask the question of how MSU fans are supposed to have hope, when doing everything right just causes more established programs to come in and raid your coaching staff.

It's very discouraging.


very true!

[smootness]

The biggest problem, in my mind, if Collins leaves, is the realization that MSU would have a glass ceiling as a football program. The realization that MSU can do everything right, hire right, recruit right, and run their business at a higher level than other, but lose all of that because other program can simply steal away our coaches.

How is MSU supposed gain ground and overcome our superiors if we can't hold onto the people that are building MSU the right way. This isn't an MSU vs OM thing, and OM should be just as worried about this type of stuff as MSU. This issue cuts the heart of the program, and ask the question of how MSU fans are supposed to have hope, when doing everything right just causes more established programs to come in and raid your coaching staff.

It's very discouraging.

Isn't this the warning printed on the contract when you sign up to be a State fan, though? I thought this was just kind of assumed by everyone.

There's something to be said for not just saying, 'We are poor ol' State,' but at the same time, there's some truth to it as well.

I may get jumped for saying this, but to me, if you're a State fan and expect that some day, just by wanting it, we can turn ourselves into an elite program in football, I think you're just going to be miserable at the end of the day.

I want it as much as anyone, and we can certainly be better than we have been and should keep hoping for bigger and better things, but you also have to have different expectations and be happy when we do relatively well as opposed to saying, '7 wins ain't good enough!'

[dawgs]

It irritates me more than anything. Communication/action early in a situation like this is the way to go IMO. What benefits are there in waiting if "it's going to happen"? If I'm the AD I want the public perception of me doing my job as confident and getting things done. The longer it drags out the more I question these things about SS.

because we are msu, which means more than anything, we can't win the war of perception because "we know he's getting a raise and it doesn't matter if the public knows." yes, it does matter. perception matters. the faster we learn that and start trying to win the press conference too, the faster we'll reach our max potential.

[bulldawg28]

If he leaves promote Townsend and keep pushing.

[dawgs]

I agree with both of these. Assistant coach's salaries should not be an afterthought.

We should never hire a DC and pay him less than $500K. Period. That is just what SEC DCs are paid. The fact that our DC's salary is only 60% of what the next lowest paid is making in the conference is ****ing embarrassing, and it reflects very poorly on our football program. Quit being cheap Stricklin- this is the SEC. I KNOW we can pay more, because we bring in more revenue than UM and Mizzou- and both of their DCs make WAY more than Collins.


yep and if we don't announce an extension and significant raise, the whole narrative in the media will be about how embarrassing our coordinator salaries are. even if collins were to leave days or weeks after an extension and raise are announced, at least we've changed the narrative away from the perception of us being embarrassingly cheap.

[Tough Dawg]

Nice to see another intelligent/creative /progressive thinking bulldog in our midst. Well said sir.

[dawgs]

He also lives in the lowest standard of living area of the SEC as well. Plus, State gives some other perks that arent in his contract

1) the cost of living in SEC towns isn't all that different. not like gainesville is NYC and baton rouge is san francisco and athens is DC or anything. yesterday someone compared starkville to columbia when cost of living was brought up and $250K in starkville is like making $247K in columbia. in other words almost negligible. starkville might be the cheapest sec town to live, but it's not that much cheaper. definitely not anywhere near enough to justify a $200K gap between our DC pay and the next lowest DC pay in the conference.

2) every school gives perks in their contracts.

[The Croom Diaries]

Isn't this the warning printed on the contract when you sign up to be a State fan, though? I thought this was just kind of assumed by everyone.

There's something to be said for not just saying, 'We are poor ol' State,' but at the same time, there's some truth to it as well.

I may get jumped for saying this, but to me, if you're a State fan and expect that some day, just by wanting it, we can turn ourselves into an elite program in football, I think you're just going to be miserable at the end of the day.

I want it as much as anyone, and we can certainly be better than we have been and should keep hoping for bigger and better things, but you also have to have different expectations and be happy when we do relatively well as opposed to saying, '7 wins ain't good enough!'

Look - we've got to take some chances at Mississippi State. Does anyone really expect us to be an elite football program? Hell no. But we can all look and see what's right before our eyes - the chance for great things. We all see it this year don't we? Dak, 16 returning starters, great sked, West opponents losing a lot of players, etc. It's all there. Why not go ALL IN and put everything on the table. Mortgage the future by putting all our marbles on the table. Pay Collins a $1 million. Whatever. Do what it takes.

Is that crazy? Maybe. But we aren't going to get better by losing Collins. Keeping him is the way to go. We aren't going to bring in a bright mind for $300K that's going to elevate us to another level. Collins has been here for 3 years. There is value in him and keeping him here to finish what he started. This is our chance. And to keep it alive we've got to take chances. We've got to pony up even if it means we go belly up. We've got to do whatever it takes to swing as hard as we can to hit that ball over the fence. We may wiff and look like bafoons, but at the end of the day we're just the second baseman and no one was expecting us to hit the HR. Let's make a statement and show everyone we're serious about football. Let's go balls deep and break the headboard.

[dawgs]

Look - we've got to take some chances at Mississippi State. Does anyone really expect us to be an elite football program? Hell no. But we can all look and see what's right before our eyes - the chance for great things. We all see it this year don't we? Dak, 16 returning starters, great sked, West opponents losing a lot of players, etc. It's all there. Why not go ALL IN and put everything on the table. Mortgage the future by putting all our marbles on the table. Pay Collins a $1 million. Whatever. Do what it takes.

Is that crazy? Maybe. But we aren't going to get better by losing Collins. Keeping him is the way to go. We aren't going to bring in a bright mind for $300K that's going to elevate us to another level. Collins has been here for 3 years. There is value in him and keeping him here to finish what he started. This is our chance. And to keep it alive we've got to take chances. We've got to pony up even if it means we go belly up. We've got to do whatever it takes to swing as hard as we can to hit that ball over the fence. We may wiff and look like bafoons, but at the end of the day we're just the second baseman and no one was expecting us to hit the HR. Let's make a statement and show everyone we're serious about football. Let's go balls deep and break the headboard.

yep, paying coordinators $300K is like recruiting low 3* recruits. some of them pan out and become studs, but i'd still prefer my odds with the kind of coordinators we could attract with a STARTING salary of at least $500K, just like i'd prefer the odds of the 4* recruit becoming a stud to the odds of a low 3* becoming a stud. we got pretty lucky and found 2 gems in diaz and collins, but also whiffed promoting wilson from within for considerably less than what it would have cost to find a good replacement on the market. as long as our starting salaries are so low, we'll continue to be forced to gamble on young, less proven coordinators with higher bust rates and the ones that do succeed will be very likely to bolt for the 1st coordinator offer they get from another BCS program because their salary will almost assuredly be significantly higher than what we have been paying them.

[blacklistedbully]

Let's pay the assistants well and lock it into a nice-sized buyout. If we can give Collins 4 years at $500k, let's attach a $2 million buyout to it enforceable every time we agree to an extension that keeps him at 4 years (including any earned raises).

That won't guarantee other programs won't take him anyway, but maybe it becomes enough of a factor to steer them in another direction.

[smootness]

yep, paying coordinators $300K is like recruiting low 3* recruits. some of them pan out and become studs, but i'd still prefer my odds with the kind of coordinators we could attract with a STARTING salary of at least $500K, just like i'd prefer the odds of the 4* recruit becoming a stud to the odds of a low 3* becoming a stud. we got pretty lucky and found 2 gems in diaz and collins, but also whiffed promoting wilson from within for considerably less than what it would have cost to find a good replacement on the market. as long as our starting salaries are so low, we'll continue to be forced to gamble on young, less proven coordinators with higher bust rates and the ones that do succeed will be very likely to bolt for the 1st coordinator offer they get from another BCS program because their salary will almost assuredly be significantly higher than what we have been paying them.

But this goes back to my point about people assuming the salary is the cause of having to reach for '3-star' coordinators; it very well could be that the '3-star' coordinator is the cause of the lower salary.

What I mean is that a) we may hit the open market looking to find a guy who is a $500,000/year-level coordinator. Well, there may be a couple of options, and they may both decline to come to State. So then we have to go below that level, and paying a '3-star' more money doesn't magically make him a '4-star'. So the fact that we paid our DC X amount doesn't mean we were only ever going to get someone worth that; it may mean that's all we were able to get and would rather pay that guy what it takes than simply paying more because we can (I realize some people disagree with this strategy, but that isn't my point).

Or b) Mullen may legitimately have a guy in mind (he certainly seemed to with Diaz and Collins) who he believes is the best guy for the job, and that guy's market value may be below some other guys who Mullen doesn't want as much. So it wouldn't make sense to pass over the guy we think is better so that we can get a guy who costs more, and it doesn't necessarily make sense for us to pay more for someone than we need to.

[smootness]

Let's pay the assistants well and lock it into a nice-sized buyout. If we can give Collins 4 years at $500k, let's attach a $2 million buyout to it enforceable every time we agree to an extension that keeps him at 4 years (including any earned raises).

That won't guarantee other programs won't take him anyway, but maybe it becomes enough of a factor to steer them in another direction.

Why would Collins sign that? I seriously doubt he's going to essentially lock himself into a DC job for the next 4 years just so he can get himself a raise to $500,000. My guess is he would rather keep the $291,000 for next year, then bolt at the first chance because holy crap, we just attached a $2 million buyout to a DC.

Nobody is going to hire a DC for any position when they have to pay $2 million just to be able to pay him a salary. And Collins knows that. He would never sign it.

[messageboardsuperhero]

Isn't this the warning printed on the contract when you sign up to be a State fan, though? I thought this was just kind of assumed by everyone.

There's something to be said for not just saying, 'We are poor ol' State,' but at the same time, there's some truth to it as well.

I may get jumped for saying this, but to me, if you're a State fan and expect that some day, just by wanting it, we can turn ourselves into an elite program in football, I think you're just going to be miserable at the end of the day.

I want it as much as anyone, and we can certainly be better than we have been and should keep hoping for bigger and better things, but you also have to have different expectations and be happy when we do relatively well as opposed to saying, '7 wins ain't good enough!'

You're missing the point. I don't think we should expect to compete with the elites when it comes to pay our assistants- but my goodness, we CAN and SHOULD be able to pay as much as UM and Mizzou pay their people. Those are teams that we can compete with, salary-wise.

[dawgs]

But this goes back to my point about people assuming the salary is the cause of having to reach for '3-star' coordinators; it very well could be that the '3-star' coordinator is the cause of the lower salary.

What I mean is that a) we may hit the open market looking to find a guy who is a $500,000/year-level coordinator. Well, there may be a couple of options, and they may both decline to come to State. So then we have to go below that level, and paying a '3-star' more money doesn't magically make him a '4-star'. So the fact that we paid our DC X amount doesn't mean we were only ever going to get someone worth that; it may mean that's all we were able to get and would rather pay that guy what it takes than simply paying more because we can (I realize some people disagree with this strategy, but that isn't my point).

Or b) Mullen may legitimately have a guy in mind (he certainly seemed to with Diaz and Collins) who he believes is the best guy for the job, and that guy's market value may be below some other guys who Mullen doesn't want as much. So it wouldn't make sense to pass over the guy we think is better so that we can get a guy who costs more, and it doesn't necessarily make sense for us to pay more for someone than we need to.

do you think we were out there offering $500K and kept getting turned down by our top realistic targets in the price range? i don't. i think mullen has a list of guys he thinks are good coaches that he can also get on the cheap because that's the hand he's been dealt.

[blacklistedbully]

Why would Collins sign that? I seriously doubt he's going to essentially lock himself into a DC job for the next 4 years just so he can get himself a raise to $500,000. My guess is he would rather keep the $291,000 for next year, then bolt at the first chance because holy crap, we just attached a $2 million buyout to a DC.

Nobody is going to hire a DC for any position when they have to pay $2 million just to be able to pay him a salary. And Collins knows that. He would never sign it.

Did you miss the part where I said it was enforceable only if we keep extending to the 4-year max, including earned raises? If he didn't like the money or job, he could refuse to sign an extension, thereby bypassing the buyout. Now, I'l admit I'm not an expert when it comes to what is an appropriate buyout, so bring it down if it's out-of-whack. But the point is, include a buyout that makes him a less tempting target for others, awhile also giving hinm the money that will make him content.

Isn't that the main point of a buyout to begin with? He gets more money, we get a little insurance he won't bolt too easily.

[Coach34]

I'm in agreement on getting our guys better salaries...and I think getting Collins to 500K is a step in the right direction. I was just pointing out that we do some things perk-wise that is not seen as "salary" that helps the cause as well.

[ChevChelios]

I'm in agreement on getting our guys better salaries...and I think getting Collins to 500K is a step in the right direction. I was just pointing out that we do some things perk-wise that is not seen as "salary" that helps the cause as well.

What are the perks?

[Tough Dawg]

While I think the financial details are important and a big part of the conversation. It's not the elephant in the room.

We need a paradigm shift in the way we are perceived by the media, our own fan base, and other schools in CF. An SEC level pay raise/extension for Collins 2 weeks ago would have helped that instead of delaying it for whatever reason. Almost as a statement saying our valuable assistants aren't going anywhere and there won't be a question.

That time has passed and the perception continues to be the same.

[PendingTransaction]

Mullen, as most HCs, have a lot of say in what assistants make. But just like his mentor, Urban, he doesn't advocate for well paid assistants. They think they can win with me as a coach if I just do what they say.

[smootness]

Isn't that the main point of a buyout to begin with? He gets more money, we get a little insurance he won't bolt too easily.

Yes, but my point is that $500,000 isn't going to make him content enough that he would just accept where he is. And he would have to just accept it because if he signed that deal, no one would hire him. It would be far too weighted toward the insurance for us and not enough toward the 'more money' for him.

Sure, he could refuse to sign an extension, but he would refuse to sign the extension every year and the deal would be meaningless. Say we sign him to that deal for 4 years. Next year we try to extend it back out to 4 years, and he will say no because he knows extending it would mean no one will hire him during that cycle and pay the $2 million buyout. So once the extension is declined, the buyout is off the table anyway and we wouldn't get anything.

So in effect, the $2 million buyout, if only applicable if the contract is continually extended out to 4 years, would mean we don't ever see the $2 million.

[The Croom Diaries]

Most assistants have 1 year deals. They are more expendable than HC's and if you fire your head coach you don't want to also be on the hook for 9 assistants too. Deals like Grantham got are VERY rare.

Smoot- you pay the minimum $500k to begin with because that's the going rate. A) it hurts perception if we don't B) it tells the coach we are a SEC program who expects results- we are paying you well so you better produce. It's like if the going rate for a P.E. is $60k but company X is trying to hire one for $40k. Yeah they'll find one but as soon as a $60k job opens up they're gone. You start at the going rate and go up from there.

[smootness]

Well, we just fundamentally disagree. I'm not saying doing it that way is bad practice, I'm just saying that I don't think doing it the way we've done it is bad practice, either. I don't think you have to pay someone at least as much as everyone else is paying to begin with if that's not the market value for the coach we're getting. And I don't see any problem, now that we're giving Collins a substantial raise, with what we paid him last year.

But again, we just disagree, and continuing to go back and forth won't change that. So I'll just leave my opinion as is and hopefully we can just drop the contract talk. I think we're bogging down the board with it.

[blacklistedbully]

Yes, but my point is that $500,000 isn't going to make him content enough that he would just accept where he is. And he would have to just accept it because if he signed that deal, no one would hire him. It would be far too weighted toward the insurance for us and not enough toward the 'more money' for him.

Sure, he could refuse to sign an extension, but he would refuse to sign the extension every year and the deal would be meaningless. Say we sign him to that deal for 4 years. Next year we try to extend it back out to 4 years, and he will say no because he knows extending it would mean no one will hire him during that cycle and pay the $2 million buyout. So once the extension is declined, the buyout is off the table anyway and we wouldn't get anything.

So in effect, the $2 million buyout, if only applicable if the contract is continually extended out to 4 years, would mean we don't ever see the $2 million.

Except that, if he continues to perform, he get's bumped in salary each year. At the end of the year, you offer a bump for 4 years. And as I said, change the buyout to something appropriate.

[hailmari]

Is it pronounced "Jeff"?

[maroonmania]

Mullen, as most HCs, have a lot of say in what assistants make. But just like his mentor, Urban, he doesn't advocate for well paid assistants. They think they can win with me as a coach if I just do what they say.

Well you would have thought that idea would have gone out the window for Mullen after he essentially had to run off both Carl Torbush and Chris Wilson as Defensive Coordinator.

[Barking 13]

What are the perks?

Free milkshakes from Chick-fil-A on Wednesdays***

[BulldogDX55]

Is it pronounced "Jeff"?

Yes. Geoff is short, I am assuming, for the traditional British spelling of Jeffrey, which is Geoffery.