Croom Diaries

[ShotgunDawg]

Losing Les Koenning is not equivalent to losing Gabe Jackson.

Have some perspective. Les did a great job, but Is very replaceable. Give it a rest.

[Goat Holder]

Wow, if he really said that, then he is a Grade A Idiot.

[ShotgunDawg]

https://twitter.com/croomdiaries/status/423475289524797440

Yes, he is apparently a grade A idiot that over reacts on minor blips.

[Goat Holder]

Good grief. I've always thought his articles were less than stellar, but damn.....just damn. I sure won't click his site again.

[Coach34]

Koenning was definitely underappreciated- but he can be replaced pretty easily with a good recruiter

[quickstrike2]

I don't think in anyway is that a good comparison. Unless Koenning was a lead recruiter on some of our better prospects, then i can't see it being a huge loss. Sure he was good, but it should be very easy to find a suitable replacement.

[The Croom Diaries]

So your response to a tweet is to post it on a message board? Nice. Your only goal here would be to tear me down, but whatever, go for it. I'll let my comments on this board speak for mine and your reputation rather than try to bring you down. No surprise Goat is your first responder here. I give my opinions, it's what I do - in my twitter description it says "follow for MSU sports takes". If you don't want to, then don't.

As far as the comment, here is what I was referring to - losing your O.C. and QB coach, especially one that has been effective, can hurt you just like losing a big time player....especially when you are expecting big things the following year. If the next man up can't perform then it's going to hurt you. But also there's a chance it could be better - even if it's not a better player/coach it could be better for chemistry and team cohesiveness. I was not making some great rant about how losing Koenning is a terrible thing. I don't think it's ideal because the dead period ends today and we just lost a coach, but it's not the end of the world. I literally said in the tweet that it's about the curveball it throws, and in the next tweet I said we could be better next year but this is uneeded stress for Mullen at this time, and into the offseason trying to train a new coach. I don't think at all that he was forced out considering we broke 9 offensive records this year and almost every record since he's been here. If by chance that is the case, I'd expect the new hire to be done within the next 48 hours and we should be in fine shape.

[Goat Holder]

So your response to a tweet is to post it on a message board? Nice. Your only goal here would be to tear me down, but whatever, go for it. I'll let my comments on this board speak for mine and your reputation rather than try to bring you down. No surprise Goat is your first responder here. I give my opinions, it's what I do - in my twitter description it says "follow for MSU sports takes". If you don't want to, then don't.

So you resort to shaming tactics? Sounds like you are just as guilty. You put your opinion out there, and got called on it. Stop acting like a baby.


As far as the comment, here is what I was referring to - losing your O.C. and QB coach, especially one that has been effective, can hurt you just like losing a big time player....especially when you are expecting big things the following year. If the next man up can't perform then it's going to hurt you. But also there's a chance it could be better - even if it's not a better player/coach it could be better for chemistry and team cohesiveness. I was not making some great rant about how losing Koenning is a terrible thing. I don't think it's ideal because the dead period ends today and we just lost a coach, but it's not the end of the world. I literally said in the tweet that it's about the curveball it throws, and in the next tweet I said we could be better next year but this is uneeded stress for Mullen at this time, and into the offseason trying to train a new coach. I don't think at all that he was forced out considering we broke 9 offensive records this year and almost every record since he's been here. If by chance that is the case, I'd expect the new hire to be done within the next 48 hours and we should be in fine shape.

This post would have been fine had it not contained the first paragraph. Alas, you compared to Koenning to losing an NFL 1st round OG. Bottom line, the offense is Mullen's, and Koenning took a demotion at Texas. That's it. I liked his mentoring though, I will say that.

[The Croom Diaries]

Yeah, you got me Goat and Shotgun. I'm dead now. Probably no one will ever read my site again because I'm such a bafoon. I don't know how I'll ever live this one down.**

[ShotgunDawg]

Yeah, you got me Goat and Shotgun. I'm dead now. Probably no one will ever read my site again because I'm such a bafoon. I don't know how I'll ever live this one down.**

I didn't say I wasn't going to read your articles anymore. I have enjoyed them in the past and hopefully will continue to do so. However, when you post/blog in a public forum, you have to expect that MSU fans aren't going to accept ignorance. While many things you say are very good, what you said today on twitter was ignorant and based on emotion.

I will call you out for that every time along with giving you credit when say intelligent things.

[The Croom Diaries]

I didn't say I wasn't going to read your articles anymore. I have enjoyed them in the past and hopefully will continue to do so. However, when you post/blog in a public forum, you have to expect that MSU fans aren't going to accept ignorance. While many things you say are very good, what you said today on twitter was ignorant and based on emotion.

I will call you out for that every time along with giving you credit when say intelligent things.

My point is why not respond to me on twitter? Why make a message board thread about it?

I am a MSU fan like you not Barrett Sallee or some other writer outside of the fanbase. Was the purpose of this thread to get me to respond or to try to make me look bad? If its the former then why not just respond on twitter?

I tweet a lot. If people started message board threads everytime they disagreed there would be a lot of them. I just think its silly to respond to a tweet with a message board post. I am available on twitter, e-mail etc.

If you think I'm responding poorly to being "called out" I'd just challenge you to not think of me any different than any other MSU fan because I am not. Yes I have a larger audience but that's just because I've worked hard to get one. I welcome all comments to something all write but I think it's tacky to go after me on an off hand twitter comment - I take it as you just don't like me and are trying to smear me...which is not going to work because I have no skin in the game.

[The Croom Diaries]

what you said today on twitter was ignorant and based on emotion.
.

This is what I don't get about you and Goat. If someone has a different opinion than you they are "ignorant". Why not just state your opinion. I think losing Koenning could potentially hurt - we are trading a constant for a variable. If you disagree on my assessment so be it, but it doesn't make it ignorant. You aren't the end all be all of MSU sports.

I guarantee you everything I say is thought out. I don't ever operate off emotion. I may be wrong from time to time but Im not a prisoner of the moment. I stand by my comments. Just as Jamaal Clayborn may replace Gab Jackson and we never know he was gone, we could find a new OC to replace Koenjing that could do just fine. It's a significant loss, but the measure of it will be determined by the replacement.

[yakalot]

My point is why not respond to me on twitter?..

Would you have liked it better if he would have called you an idiot on twitter?

Getting called out by Sybil/Goat should be considered a red badge of courage.

[Goat Holder]

You have a point there. Acceptance of other people's opinion isn't always a priority of mine. But at least I admit it.

I do think you are overly negative about things that shouldn't be, and you put those out on a public forum. That's why I may choose not to read your blog.

[engie]

There was nothing overly negative about what he said? Just a rampant overreaction?

[Hypnodawg]

Loosing Les is closer to loosing Milton than loosing Gabe. Gabe's future is as a starter in the NFL, not second string in Arena League.

[The Croom Diaries]

Loosing Les is closer to loosing Milton than loosing Gabe. Gabe's future is as a starter in the NFL, not second string in Arena League.

So essentially Koenning had zero value to the team? Because that's what Milton was.

[ShotgunDawg]

So essentially Koenning had zero value to the team? Because that's what Milton was.

I think the best way to look at this conundrum is to equate it to the baseball stat WAR = Wins Above Replacement player. With a replacement player being an average everyday player at that position.

Koenning, just like an average LF, has value because he assumed and held a position. However, that doesn't necessarily mean that he has value when compared against the average replacement that we can get.

Koenning is more valuable than no-body and also more valuable than a bad OC

Koenning has equal value to an everyday, run of the mill OC

Koenning has less value than an above average to good OC.

Therefore, if we are trying to equate the value of Les Koenning to a player, then that will depend on how good you think Les Koenning was.

For me, I think it's ludicrous to believe that Koenning was and excellent to elite OC, which would hold similar value to Gabe Jackson.

I think Koenning was completely average, and therefore, his value, to me, would be more equal to Jay Hughes or Siddoway. Guys that both held positions, but are pretty average and thus are replaceable.

This is the best I can explain it.

[PMDawg2]

Loosing Les is closer to loosing Milton than loosing Gabe. Gabe's future is as a starter in the NFL, not second string in Arena League.

Cut Lose!!!!

[PMDawg2]

I think the best way to look at this conundrum is to equate it to the baseball stat WAR = Wins Above Replacement player. With a replacement player being an average everyday player at that position.

Koenning, just like an average LF, has value because he assumed and held a position. However, that doesn't necessarily mean that he has value when compared against the average replacement that we can get.

Koenning is more valuable than no-body and also more valuable than a bad OC

Koenning has equal value to an everyday, run of the mill OC

Koenning has less value than an above average to good OC.

Therefore, if we are trying to equate the value of Les Koenning to a player, then that will depend on how good you think Les Koenning was.

For me, I think it's ludicrous to believe that Koenning was and excellent to elite OC, which would hold similar value to Gabe Jackson.

I think Koenning was completely average, and therefore, his value, to me, would be more equal to Jay Hughes or Siddoway. Guys that both held positions, but are pretty average and thus are replaceable.

This is the best I can explain it.

You're overreacting to his tweet far more than he "overreacted" to Les leaving.

[The Croom Diaries]

I think the best way to look at this conundrum is to equate it to the baseball stat WAR = Wins Above Replacement player. With a replacement player being an average everyday player at that position.

Koenning, just like an average LF, has value because he assumed and held a position. However, that doesn't necessarily mean that he has value when compared against the average replacement that we can get.

Koenning is more valuable than no-body and also more valuable than a bad OC

Koenning has equal value to an everyday, run of the mill OC

Koenning has less value than an above average to good OC.

Therefore, if we are trying to equate the value of Les Koenning to a player, then that will depend on how good you think Les Koenning was.

For me, I think it's ludicrous to believe that Koenning was and excellent to elite OC, which would hold similar value to Gabe Jackson.

I think Koenning was completely average, and therefore, his value, to me, would be more equal to Jay Hughes or Siddoway. Guys that both held positions, but are pretty average and thus are replaceable.

This is the best I can explain it.

There is no way losing Gabe Jackson is the equivalent to losing and excellent to elite OC. He is just a guard - our offensive line was just average this year with him on it. An excellent or elite O.C. can make all the difference in the world. If Clemson had our exact offensive personnel, do you think they would prefer to lose Gabe Jackson or Chad Morris? Same for LSU - if they had our exact personnel would they rather lose Jackson or Cam Cameron?

The point I was/am trying to make is that you are trading a constant for a variable. With Gabe Jackson you knew you had a guy anchoring the LG spot for four straight years making 52 straight starts. With Les Koenning you knew exactly what you were getting.

There are 5 offensive coaches and 11 starters. Every one of those starters is replaceable next year except Dak Prescott. By replaceable I mean we could find someone to fill in for them and not lose much if any. Same for Koenning. Losing Les shakes up the formula Dan's used ever since he got here. He's been building towards a year like next year and now he just lost one of the main guys he was building with. That's a big loss just like losing Gabe Jackson off the line. Jamaal Clayborn has the potential to make that loss not hurt so bad, or it could sting really bad at LG. Same for Koenning - we could bring in a guy who is >, = or < Les. You don't know for sure, but it's still a significant loss to the team. People are shaking it off like Les had no influence on this team at all.

[BeastMan]

You don't have to agree with someone 100% of the time. A little disagreement is the lifeblood of sports fandom. Disagreeing with someone isn't the end of the world either.

[engie]

So how many more games did we win this year with Gabe vs having Beckwith in that spot? What is Gabe's WAR then? How many more would we win if he was coming back next yr vs Clayborn/Beckwith in that spot?

Talk about severely overthinking a simple statement that he's made obvious he can back up in order to nitpick an argument on the internet...

[Hypnodawg]

Replace Gabe with almost anyone (including on our roster) and it is a step down. We have assistant coaches that are as good as Les (evidenced by the talk of promote from within) and there are excellent O.C. opportunities out there. Lose Gabe, you take a step down. Lose Les and go sideways or up.

[engie]

Replace Gabe with almost anyone (including on our roster) and it is a step down. We have assistant coaches that are as good as Les (evidenced by the talk of promote from within) and there are excellent O.C. opportunities out there. Lose Gabe, you take a step down. Lose Les and go sideways or up.

You didn't translate anything to wins whatsoever. No one denies Gabe has been a great player for us. How many additional wins did that translate to vs the other guys? It's REALLY hard to assess that -- hence why WAR was something ridiculous to bring up in the first place.

Losing a single great coach is a MUCH bigger deal than losing a single great player. Ask Clemson if they'd rather have Tahj Boyd or Chad Morris. Ask the same about Sammie Watkins. Therefore it doesn't take some ridiculous logical leap to say that losing a mediocre coach = losing a great player. Certainly not a ridiculous logical leap worthy of creating this "call out" thread...

[TheDogFather]

I'll admit I didn't read every word of every post in this thread so I may very we'll be missing something.

But judging by all the reactions I think you could say that those who didn't care much for Les don't care much that he's gone.

Those that thought Les was valuable see his departure as more detrimental?

Therefore the wide difference of opinions.

[preachermatt83]

I don't always agree with Croom Diaries but he is a good writer and calling him "ignorant" and calling his tweet out on a message board is not the way to go. As for Goat, if I were you Croom that is one cat I could care less what he thinks because he is simply here to be an antagonist. Every single thread he posts in he has to take some kind of shot at some other poster. keep up the good work Croom and your opinion, even if I don't always agree with it, is just as good as mine or shotguns or anyone else's .

[The Croom Diaries]

You didn't translate anything to wins whatsoever. No one denies Gabe has been a great player for us. How many additional wins did that translate to vs the other guys? It's REALLY hard to assess that -- hence why WAR was something ridiculous to bring up in the first place.

Losing a single great coach is a MUCH bigger deal than losing a single great player. Ask Clemson if they'd rather have Tahj Boyd or Chad Morris. Ask the same about Sammie Watkins. Therefore it doesn't take some ridiculous logical leap to say that losing a mediocre coach = losing a great player. Certainly not a ridiculous logical leap worthy of creating this "call out" thread...

Well said. This is the most ridiculous thread. At least next time maybe we can come up with something I say that can be refuted with facts rather than just saying someone is a grade A idiot for an analogy you disagree with.