Josh Robinson's tweet

[CadaverDawg]

Did you guys see it? He says...

I got you and you got me pic.twitter.com/vFEFw5LvaY
359

I really hope Josh Robinson doesn't get down after the amount of carries perk had over him this year, and instead embraces that he and Dak could be the best backfield in the damn country next season. I loved seeing this tweet from him, because I was worried he wasn't real happy with the lack of carries.

Mullen needs to feed this son of a gun the rock next year.

[Todd4State]

At least on the sideline, Robinson seems like one of our happiest players.

I think he knows that he is the running back next year. He just needs to work on catching the ball out of the backfield a little bit and he will be even more awesome.

[CadaverDawg]

He will be a beast next year. He reminds me so much of a little Anthony Dixon. From his running style, to his personality. He brings a swagger to our offense. I can't wait to see him get the bulk of the carries

[smootness]

Why would he be upset over being the #2 back behind a senior who is going to be drafted in the NFL Draft? I know his YPC is better, and most of us agree that we would rather he be the every-down back instead of Perkins this year (I am among those), but I don't think the players look at things like fans.

He knows his time is coming. He's been doing what the coach asked him to do, and I'm sure he's happy.

[starkvegasdawg]

Would love to see him and Shump in some two back sets. With them and dak in the backfield who would you key on as the defense? Especially when you have Lewis, Wilson, and the others at receiver.

[Schultzy]

Because he was better. I think the players and the fans know that.

If there is one thing I hope Mullen changes as he matures as a hc is this personnel thing.

[CadaverDawg]

Why would he be upset over being the #2 back behind a senior who is going to be drafted in the NFL Draft? I know his YPC is better, and most of us agree that we would rather he be the every-down back instead of Perkins this year (I am among those), but I don't think the players look at things like fans.

He knows his time is coming. He's been doing what the coach asked him to do, and I'm sure he's happy.

Probably the same reason we were. Not saying he was pissed, but judging by tweets and hearsay, I had a feeling he might be a little upset. Probably felt he could be helping the team more if he could get some opportunities. It appears he's good now so it's a moot point. You are quite the argumentative one lately.

[CadaverDawg]

Because he was better. I think the players and the fans know that.

If there is one thing I hope Mullen changes as he matures as a hc is this personnel thing.

Agree

[smootness]

Sorry, I don't mean to be a dick or anything. I just don't like when fans make assumptions and then evaluate things on top of their assumptions.

Like with people assuming that because Mullen didn't scream at everyone on the sidelines that he had lost his fire...and then once that's said enough it is considered fact when it reality it is still simply assumption.

So I look at this similarly. We assume Josh Robinson views the situation as we do, and then we worry that he's going to get down about it or transfer (I saw someone mention this in a thread on this site as a fear) when in reality, there's a decent chance he never once thought, 'I'm better than Perkins, I should be the man'.

[RougeDawg]

Why would he be upset over being the #2 back behind a senior who is going to be drafted in the NFL Draft? I know his YPC is better, and most of us agree that we would rather he be the every-down back instead of Perkins this year (I am among those), but I don't think the players look at things like fans.

He knows his time is coming. He's been doing what the coach asked him to do, and I'm sure he's happy.

Dont know about Perk getting drafter, but I think he will get a free agent shot somewhere. I'm pretty sure JRob knows what went on this year with the carries. Hopefully he and Shump push each other into one of best backfield tandems in SEC and nation. With Dak they can be a mean hard hitting triple threat.

[CadaverDawg]

Sorry, I don't mean to be a dick or anything. I just don't like when fans make assumptions and then evaluate things on top of their assumptions.

Like with people assuming that because Mullen didn't scream at everyone on the sidelines that he had lost his fire...and then once that's said enough it is considered fact when it reality it is still simply assumption.

So I look at this similarly. We assume Josh Robinson views the situation as we do, and then we worry that he's going to get down about it or transfer (I saw someone mention this in a thread on this site as a fear) when in reality, there's a decent chance he never once thought, 'I'm better than Perkins, I should be the man'.

Yet, you are making assumptions and completely putting words in people's mouth. I didn't say Mullen lost his fire "because he wasn't yelling enough", and I didn't say Josh ONLY would be possibly down because he feels the same way we do...If you had seen his twitter in the last month or so, you would have seen that he seemed down a lot. Add to that the thread on here from a so called "friend" of his, AND the fact that he is getting slighted on carries, and I felt that he could "POSSIBLY" be a "LITTLE" down. See how much you exaggerated what I said?

Just making conversation and discussion. Not jumping out and saying, "glad Josh tweeted this because he was obviously pissed as shit about lack of carries since we all are".

Just sayin

And as for Mullen, I based none of my thoughts on Mullen on his "yelling on the sidelines". I judged what I called "appeared a little bit complacent" on him saying shit like "We're glad to be 3-3" and his lack of nuts in the second half of games early in the Season. And I had a very good point. It was far more than "he isn't yelling enough, so he lost his fire". Some might have said stupid shit like that, but not me.

Just want to clear that up for those that may think I said things I didn't based on your post.

Carry on

[Todd4State]

I like what we did in the Liberty Bowl with Shumpert as a FB when he scored his TD. I'm not advocating moving Shumpert to FB full time, but if we have two backs that are equally competent in carrying the ball, catching the ball out of the backfield and blocking- it doesn't get much better than that. Defenses won't be able to key in on who is getting the ball, who is blocking, and etc.

[smootness]

Yet, you are making assumptions and completely putting words in people's mouth. I didn't say Mullen lost his fire "because he wasn't yelling enough", and I didn't say Josh ONLY would be possibly down because he feels the same way we do...If you had seen his twitter in the last month or so, you would have seen that he seemed down a lot. Add to that the thread on here from a so called "friend" of his, AND the fact that he is getting slighted on carries, and I felt that he could "POSSIBLY" be a "LITTLE" down. See how much you exaggerated what I said?

Just making conversation and discussion. Not jumping out and saying, "glad Josh tweeted this because he was obviously pissed as shit about lack of carries since we all are".

Just sayin

And as for Mullen, I based none of my thoughts on Mullen on his "yelling on the sidelines". I judged what I called "appeared a little bit complacent" on him saying shit like "We're glad to be 3-3" and his lack of nuts in the second half of games early in the Season. And I had a very good point. It was far more than "he isn't yelling enough, so he lost his fire". Some might have said stupid shit like that, but not me.

Just want to clear that up for those that may think I said things I didn't based on your post.

Carry on

Fair enough. I wasn't referring to you specifically when talking about Mullen's sideline demeanor; that was just another example of one of my pet peeves. I'm the type who will try to avoid reading too much into a situation that I know nothing about, sometimes to a fault; so I will usually butt heads some with those who do the opposite.

[CadaverDawg]

I like what we did in the Liberty Bowl with Shumpert as a FB when he scored his TD. I'm not advocating moving Shumpert to FB full time, but if we have two backs that are equally competent in carrying the ball, catching the ball out of the backfield and blocking- it doesn't get much better than that. Defenses won't be able to key in on who is getting the ball, who is blocking, and etc.

I agree. I loved it. I would hate to be a D-Coordinator facing Dak, Josh, and Ashton in the backfield...DeRunnya and Jameon at WR, and Malcolm and/or Samuel at TE. #Weapons

[smootness]

I like what we did in the Liberty Bowl with Shumpert as a FB when he scored his TD. I'm not advocating moving Shumpert to FB full time, but if we have two backs that are equally competent in carrying the ball, catching the ball out of the backfield and blocking- it doesn't get much better than that. Defenses won't be able to key in on who is getting the ball, who is blocking, and etc.

Agreed, and the diamond formation is perfect for this. You can hand it off to any of them, or throw it to any of them, or have any of them block, on any one play. So for a team with several talented RBs, it makes a lot of sense. With Robinson, Shumpert, and Williams/Griffin next year, not to mention Dak, I expect to see a lot of the diamond.

[CadaverDawg]

Fair enough. I wasn't referring to you specifically when talking about Mullen's sideline demeanor; that was just another example of one of my pet peeves. I'm the type who will try to avoid reading too much into a situation that I know nothing about, sometimes to a fault; so I will usually butt heads some with those who do the opposite.

It's all good. I never take anything personal...plus I've followed your posts for years and like most of em. We're alike in that we will state our views strongly. I like it. Good Bulldog

[Todd4State]

Agreed, and the diamond formation is perfect for this. You can hand it off to any of them, or throw it to any of them, or have any of them block, on any one play. So for a team with several talented RBs, it makes a lot of sense. With Robinson, Shumpert, and Williams/Griffin next year, not to mention Dak, I expect to see a lot of the diamond.

I'd throw in some Aeries Williams to the diamond as well.

[Schultzy]

I like what we did in the Liberty Bowl with Shumpert as a FB when he scored his TD. I'm not advocating moving Shumpert to FB full time, but if we have two backs that are equally competent in carrying the ball, catching the ball out of the backfield and blocking- it doesn't get much better than that. Defenses won't be able to key in on who is getting the ball, who is blocking, and etc.

Under center at the goal line! I liked it too bc I just think the qb sneak is effective since the rules allow the fullback to push the qb forward there.
Getting Shumpert in the end zone was was smart in my opinion.

[smootness]

I'd throw in some Aeries Williams to the diamond as well.

Yeah, he's the Williams I was referring to, not Damian; should have made that more clear.

[dogshiek]

Robinson knows he's going to be a huge part of the 2014 offense. A lot of teams are going to get tired of tackling Josh, Dak, and Shump. What a load!

[dawgs]

I hope every player on our roster thinks they could be helping the team and wants more reps. In their head they know they gotta bust their ass and wait their turn, but in their heart I hope they think they are good enough to help with more reps.

[Bully Dee Williams]

Because he was better. I think the players and the fans know that.

If there is one thing I hope Mullen changes as he matures as a hc is this personnel thing.

I really don't have much of a problem with the way Mullen has handled most personnel issues. At times, we could say a few of the players drawing the PT were naturally less "talented" than the some of the guys on the bench. However, talent only tells part of the story. Our staff puts a premium on practicing/training hard, leadership, and doing things the right way. That sounds cliche, but it the best course of action for a historically underperforming and unrespected program. That approach has laid a strong foundation upon which we can build a program with depth an little to no attrition. During these past few seasons it has been easy to feel impatient, but we are now starting to see the fruits of developing a team of team first hardworking guys.

[Schultzy]

[QUOTE=Bully Dee Williams;113979]n practicing/training hard, leadership, and doing things the right way.

You just described Robinson.

[TheDogFather]

I don't understand the he is better crowd.

A) do you honestly think the entire coaching staff would torpedo their careers by keeping the best player on the sideline?

If you say yes there is no reason to continue this thread.

B) it doesn't matter how many games you watch on TV or how many posts you make on an anonymous internet message board, you will never have all of the information required to label one player better than the other.

If you disagree with B then please posts your game performance charts with made/missed assignments of every play along side of your practice notes and analysis.

[Bully Dee Williams]

[QUOTE=Bully Dee Williams;113979]n practicing/training hard, leadership, and doing things the right way.

You just described Robinson.

No doubt. Josh is a good kid, but he had some growing up that he did this year. He keeps working hard on and off the field, then he will continue to have major opportunities. I love the kid.

[Political Hack]

I don't understand the he is better crowd.

A) do you honestly think the entire coaching staff would torpedo their careers by keeping the best player on the sideline?

If you say yes there is no reason to continue this thread.

B) it doesn't matter how many games you watch on TV or how many posts you make on an anonymous internet message board, you will never have all of the information required to label one player better than the other.

If you disagree with B then please posts your game performance charts with made/missed assignments of every play along side of your practice notes and analysis.

so you're not a "star" guy I presume?

I think JRob is more talented. "Better" is a different story and you're right, only the coaches know that. JRob is more talented though.

[Todd4State]

I don't understand the he is better crowd.

A) do you honestly think the entire coaching staff would torpedo their careers by keeping the best player on the sideline?

If you say yes there is no reason to continue this thread.

B) it doesn't matter how many games you watch on TV or how many posts you make on an anonymous internet message board, you will never have all of the information required to label one player better than the other.

If you disagree with B then please posts your game performance charts with made/missed assignments of every play along side of your practice notes and analysis.

A) I don't think the coaches are intentionally not playing who they think is worse. I do think that sometimes they may misjudge what some of our players can do and put them in positions that aren't as advantageous to them or the team. Perkins was not a bad player. But he's simply not an every down, run it 25 times between the tackles kind of guy. We should have used him at least twice as much in the passing game than we did. If we had used Robinson about twice as much as we did, our offense would have been even better than it was.

B) I'd like to see your performance chart first. Anonymous posters calling out other posters for being anonymous is one of the most ironic things in the history of the Internet. Robinson had the key block on Damian's OT TD run over Arkansas.

Robinson- 78 carries, 459 yards, 5.9 AVG 3 TD's. 12 Receptions, 115 yards receiving, 0 TD's

Perkins- 137 carries, 542 yards, 4.0 AVG, 2 TD's. 27 Reception, 248 yards receiving, 3 TD's

Robinson had almost as many yards as Robinson and more rushing TD's with almost half as many carries. He averaged almost 2 yards per carry more. On top of that, he's almost as proficient as a receiver as Perkins is based on the stats as well.

[Barking 13]

point blank...period!

[CadaverDawg]

A) I don't think the coaches are intentionally not playing who they think is worse. I do think that sometimes they may misjudge what some of our players can do and put them in positions that aren't as advantageous to them or the team. Perkins was not a bad player. But he's simply not an every down, run it 25 times between the tackles kind of guy. We should have used him at least twice as much in the passing game than we did. If we had used Robinson about twice as much as we did, our offense would have been even better than it was.

B) I'd like to see your performance chart first. Anonymous posters calling out other posters for being anonymous is one of the most ironic things in the history of the Internet. Robinson had the key block on Damian's OT TD run over Arkansas.

Robinson- 78 carries, 459 yards, 5.9 AVG 3 TD's. 12 Receptions, 115 yards receiving, 0 TD's

Perkins- 137 carries, 542 yards, 4.0 AVG, 2 TD's. 27 Reception, 248 yards receiving, 3 TD's

Robinson had almost as many yards as Robinson and more rushing TD's with almost half as many carries. He averaged almost 2 yards per carry more. On top of that, he's almost as proficient as a receiver as Perkins is based on the stats as well.

Boom.

Come on, DogFather, you're better than that "Show me your experience" horse shit. Robinson is clearly the better every down back. Perkins is great catching passes out of the backfield and running draws in long yardage situations.

[tcdog70]

[QUOTE=CadaverDawg;114238]Boom.

Come on, DogFather, you're better than that "Show me your experience" horse shit. Robinson is clearly the better every down back. Perkins is great catching passes out of the backfield and running draws in long yardage situations.[/QUOTE

Ha, right on it is pretty obvious. hell, Stevie Wonder can see that.

[TheDogFather]

Well said.

[TheDogFather]

You missed my point.

Where is the stats on missed assignments. You have to judge by the net contribution.

[TheDogFather]

My point is still being missed.

How many times did the RB - no matter the name - miss a blocking assignment or not make the correct read.

You not me nor anyone outside the coaching staff can make those judgements.

Making blanket judgements without all of the facts is irresponsible.

What it comes down to which nobody is going to admit is a blatant mistrust of the coaching staff.

[dawgoneyall]

A.

[HoopsDawg]

My point is still being missed.

How many times did the RB - no matter the name - miss a blocking assignment or not make the correct read.

You not me nor anyone outside the coaching staff can make those judgements.

Making blanket judgements without all of the facts is irresponsible.

What it comes down to which nobody is going to admit is a blatant mistrust of the coaching staff.

Let's not act like they haven't made mistakes with personnel in the past:

1) Playing Kaleb Eulls at DE for 2 years. Not giving Preston Smith more reps in 2012.
2) Never giving Darius Slay the opportunity to return kicks even though he was a Juco AA KR. Instead, we went with Ladarius Perkins who was ineffective.
3) Playing Broomfield over Slay at corner.
4) Dak-Gator Bowl and really the Ok State game.

Even Paul Jones has admitted the staff sometimes sticks with the older players too long.

[engie]

My point is still being missed.

How many times did the RB - no matter the name - miss a blocking assignment or not make the correct read.

You not me nor anyone outside the coaching staff can make those judgements.

Making blanket judgements without all of the facts is irresponsible.

What it comes down to which nobody is going to admit is a blatant mistrust of the coaching staff.

So, if Robinson screws up a blocking assignment or makes a bad read twice a game, what is that? 10-15 yards lost?

Based on rushing averages, he makes up that difference in getting about 8 additional carries. In 10-15 additional carries, that is still a pretty significant net gain. Meaning he's still the better option.

I'll rerun my numbers later on the two against top 30 rush defense teams. The difference is STAGGERING.

[K9 Avenger]

My point is still being missed.

How many times did the RB - no matter the name - miss a blocking assignment or not make the correct read.

You not me nor anyone outside the coaching staff can make those judgements.

Making blanket judgements without all of the facts is irresponsible.

What it comes down to which nobody is going to admit is a blatant mistrust of the coaching staff.
Bingo...this is spot on! The fact of the matter is that while Robinson is better carrying the football than Perk, he hasn't been as good at most everything else that's required of a RB in this offense. If you don't believe that then go ask a Coach. I promise you this Coaching Staff realizes that this isn't rec league soccer...they're trying to win games.

[Todd4State]

My point is still being missed.

How many times did the RB - no matter the name - miss a blocking assignment or not make the correct read.

You not me nor anyone outside the coaching staff can make those judgements.

Making blanket judgements without all of the facts is irresponsible.

What it comes down to which nobody is going to admit is a blatant mistrust of the coaching staff.

How many times did Dak or Tyler get sacked because of Josh missing a blocking assignment? We run a good bit of the time- and we run the option a lot of the time, which means that our running back is either getting the ball from the QB or basically is a decoy to get the ball. Of course, it's hard to miss assignments when you're not playing in the game. With people like Coach34 and Coach57 on here, IF Robinson was missing a lot of assignments- they would have brought it up by now. Coach57 goes to some practices as well as the games.

I provided stats that showed very clearly that Robinson is the better of the two. You can throw out "assignments" all you want- but those stats reflect within the context of our offense what a running back is EXPECTED to do- hence their assignment. The running back is a skill position- other than the QB, they are expected to handle the ball on most plays. And even on most pass plays, they go out and run a pass route. They are not primary blockers. When Robinson has the ball in his hand, he is a superior player than Perkins.

And you're wrong in your conclusion- what you are saying is that there is some mystical thing about football that only the coaches understand that the common man doesn't and can't understand, so we need to not talk about it and eat our popcorn. All you're really proving is that you are self-righteous and don't know a lot about what a running back does. Dan should be called out on this. Should he be fired over it? No. But it is something that limits our offense.

[Todd4State]

Bingo...this is spot on! The fact of the matter is that while Robinson is better carrying the football than Perk, he hasn't been as good at most everything else that's required of a RB in this offense. If you don't believe that then go ask a Coach. I promise you this Coaching Staff realizes that this isn't rec league soccer...they're trying to win games.

So, you're saying that they're telling our RB's to fall down after two yards? Because that and maybe catching the ball out of the backfield was the only thing that Perkins did better than Robinson.

[engie]

Here are their numbers against top 40 rush defenses:

2013
Alabama - JRob 6 for 17, Perk 10 for 25
LSU - JRob 6 for 40, Perk 10 for 81
OK State - JRob 8 for 48, Perk 16 for 50

2012
Alabama - JRob 1 for 15, Perk 15 for 38
LSU - JRob 5 for 17, Perk DNP
Arkansas - JRob 4 for 26, Perk 17 for 91
Northwestern - JRob 7 for 91, Perk 19 for 84
Ole Miss - JRob DNP, Perk 16 for 45
Texas A&M - JRob 4 for 20, Perk 13 for 42

Totals vs Good Run Defenses:
JRob 41 for 274 - AVG of 6.68
Perk: 116 for 456 - AVG of 3.93

JRob is SEVENTY PERCENT more productive per carry. That's totally insane.

[bulldawg28]

He'll get his shot. However, he'll have to fight off a bigger,stronger,more suited back in Shumpert.

[OldFatDog]

So, you're saying that they're telling our RB's to fall down after two yards? Because that and maybe catching the ball out of the backfield was the only thing that Perkins did better than Robinson.

You could be posting about how excited you are to see Josh be the feature back. You could be talking about what a hard-nosed runner he is. You could do those things without shitting on a player that worked his ass off for Mississippi State. But instead, you talk shit about Perkins. I swear. You boys are something.

[Bully Dee Williams]

You could be posting about how excited you are to see Josh be the feature back. You could be talking about what a hard-nosed runner he is. You could do those things without shitting on a player that worked his ass off for Mississippi State. But instead, you talk shit about Perkins. I swear. You boys are something.

Perk was a soldier! He played hard every down and made huge plays for us. I'm also grateful for his leadership and willingness to do whatever the team needed him to do. Regardless of the stats, Perkins was valuable to our program.

[whosyourdawgy]

I don't get the bashing Perk. Hell, the season is over. His MSU career is over. Its ****ing ridiculous to dog his shit period. Engie, when did JRob run against those top 40 D's? In trash time vs the 2nd and 3rd teams? Just curious. I agree that as a pure runner, that JRob is the better back. But there is a helluva lot more to playing running back than running the damn ball. Mullen makes some bonehead decisions on personnel sometimes, most notably to me the punting situation, but he always says he plays the ones that practice well which is why Bell punted more at the end of the season. Still shake my head about that. But Perkins played his heart out for MSU, won several games for us with his running and pass catching. Don't belittle him by doing this on a message board after his career is done. Robinson gets his shot next year to be the man and I'll bet some of you knotheads(my dad reference) will be here posting this same shit next season about Shumpert or Aeries Williams should be getting more reps than JRob

[Coach34]

Is anybody bashing Perk or are they just showing the actual stats?

[whosyourdawgy]

Is anybody bashing Perk or are they just showing the actual stats? No there is no statement by anyone saying he sucked, but to me this belittles what he accomplished and meant to the team. He deserves better respect than that to me. I shoulda worded that better for sure. But my last sentence will happen next season. Somebody that thinks Shump is better than JRob will be bitching about Josh getting all the carries. It's the nature of our fans and I guess most fan bases.

[engie]

I don't get the bashing Perk. Hell, the season is over. His MSU career is over. Its ****ing ridiculous to dog his shit period.
No one is dogging Perkins. We are dogging Mullen's ridiculously stupid usage of him after using him very well his first 2 years as a complement to Ballard. Let's be clear -- Perkins' shortcomings are MULLEN'S fault in misusage -- not his own.


Engie, when did JRob run against those top 40 D's? In trash time vs the 2nd and 3rd teams? Just curious.
You can figure that out just as easily as I can. Obviously, no, he was never a mop-up RB. He'd get 2-4 carries early -- go for 50 yards -- and we wouldn't see him again. I remember this happening in AT LEAST 4-5 of the games I listed.


I agree that as a pure runner, that JRob is the better back.
Then what are you arguing?


But there is a helluva lot more to playing running back than running the damn ball. Mullen makes some bonehead decisions on personnel sometimes, most notably to me the punting situation, but he always says he plays the ones that practice well which is why Bell punted more at the end of the season. Still shake my head about that.
But you are arguing FOR his usage in the RB situation?


But Perkins played his heart out for MSU, won several games for us with his running and pass catching.
This is ridiculous. So did Tyler Russell -- but you know what? I'm looking FORWARD AS HELL to the Dak Prescott era. EXACTLY like the Josh Robinson Era. I can appreciate what Perkins and Russell brought to the table for us -- while still KNOWING that we're going to be a better, more productive team at both spots next year with the people replacing them. It's not a shot at them -- it's reality.


Don't belittle him by doing this on a message board after his career is done.
Again -- where did anyone belittle him? Basically everything anyone has said about him comes back to Mullen's misuse of him. Do you want us to kiss everyone's ass that ever had the PRIVILEGE of playing for MSU simply because they put on the maroon and white? Give me a break.


Robinson gets his shot next year to be the man and I'll bet some of you knotheads(my dad reference) will be here posting this same shit next season about Shumpert or Aeries Williams should be getting more reps than JRob
You are DAMN RIGHT WE WILL -- if they outperform his ass in the most obvious fashion possible on the field to the tune of damn near 3 yards per carry difference. It ain't about the individuals -- it's about making the TEAM better. This ain't little league -- and everybody doesn't get a participation trophy. We want to WIN -- and to be put in the BEST POSITION for that to happen. Period.

Let me guess -- you were one of the people calling people out for wanting Dak over Russell too weren't you? Yet, I haven't seen you here shedding tears every time Mullen cuts a player for not being good enough. Why not?

[engie]

No there is no statement by anyone saying he sucked, but to me this belittles what he accomplished and meant to the team. He deserves better respect than that to me. I shoulda worded that better for sure. But my last sentence will happen next season. Somebody that thinks Shump is better than JRob will be bitching about Josh getting all the carries. It's the nature of our fans and I guess most fan bases.

How obvious can it be statistically?

You know what -- if Williams is getting 7 yards/carry while J-Rob is getting 4.5 -- you are DAMN RIGHT I'm going to be clamoring for Williams to get more carries. Why? Because I want MSU to be the BEST THAT IT CAN BE -- and that is FAR MORE important than massaging the ego of any individual player or coach.

You are obviously one of the people that gets caught up in putting individual coaches and players before our overall betterment of our teams -- which is how we have ended up with TOTALLY destroyed baseball, basketball, and football teams IN THE LAST DECADE.

[Coach34]

People love arguing sports and will use stats alot to back their positions.
Upon seeing said stats, some people realize players/teams may not have been as good as they believed them to be or remembered.
Posting stats is not bashing players/coaches- but showing what took place. Stats also dont tell the whole story and may be skewed at times.

I think everybody here appreciates the effort Perk gave us and wishes him well. But its also pretty obvious JRob deserved more carries in 2013. Less carries in 2013 for Perkins would not have slighted him, but would have been a credit to JRob and what he brought to the table.

[OldFatDog]

Is anybody bashing Perk or are they just showing the actual stats?

Yes. Todd's "fall down after two yards" statement is a horseshit statement. And we don't need the constant statements that Perkins isn't as good as Robinson. The only thing we should be saying about Perkins' are statements of appreciation. He busted his ass for us for 4 years. He has been a very good representative of MSU. Talk positive about JR all day. He is damn good and I'm excited to see what the future brings.

[HoopsDawg]

People love arguing sports and will use stats alot to back their positions.
Upon seeing said stats, some people realize players/teams may not have been as good as they believed them to be or remembered.
Posting stats is not bashing players/coaches- but showing what took place. Stats also dont tell the whole story and may be skewed at times.

I think everybody here appreciates the effort Perk gave us and wishes him well. But its also pretty obvious JRob deserved more carries in 2013. Less carries in 2013 for Perkins would not have slighted him, but would have been a credit to JRob and what he brought to the table.

All true. It's worrisome that our coach did not make this adjustment.

[Todd4State]

You could be posting about how excited you are to see Josh be the feature back. You could be talking about what a hard-nosed runner he is. You could do those things without shitting on a player that worked his ass off for Mississippi State. But instead, you talk shit about Perkins. I swear. You boys are something.

And I could buy you some thicker skin too. Would you be happier if I said "not getting as many yards as Robinson?" It's essentially saying the same thing and per the stats it's true. In fact, I'll go as far as to say the reason he would fall down after two yards is because he wasn't used properly. I understand that's not his fault- and I don't blame him. He's doing what the coaches are telling him to do.

And for the record- I'm not bashing Perkins, I don't hate Perkins or anything else bad about Perkins. What I AM debating is that he wasn't used properly. If we had used him more like Jameon and less like Vick Ballard- our offense (and yes, I am aware that we set some records) would have been even better. I WANTED Perkins to be used in a way that fit him better so that HE and the TEAM would have had even more success than they did. If that's "bashing" Perkins- so be it. But if I thought he sucked so bad, why am I advocating using him in the lineup? You would think that if I had something personal against him or hated him or if he stole one of my girlfriends that I would be posting about how his ass needs to be on the bench.

[K9 Avenger]

nm

[TheDogFather]

But you will never be able to analyze all of the data because you don't have access to it. You can keep trying though.

You are definitely in the crowd with the blatant mistrust of our coaching staff. And there's nothing wrong with that.

[TheDogFather]

Is anybody bashing Perk or are they just showing the actual stats?

Stats don't show the whole picture. As I've said in this thread a dozen times. Anyone with any coaching experience knows this.

This thread is like dealing with the parents of high school athletes. The more they talk the dumber they prove themselves to be.

[Johnson85]

Stats don't show the whole picture. As I've said in this thread a dozen times. Anyone with any coaching experience knows this.

This thread is like dealing with the parents of high school athletes. The more they talk the dumber they prove themselves to be.

Stats don't show the whole picture, but the point is that Josh Robinson's game performance was better than Perkins. That's not Perkins fault. He was awesome, and had he been used in a way that emphasized his strengths, this wouldn't even be a discussion. There may have been perfectly good reasons for Perkins to get the carries based on things Robinson did or did not do in practices or off the field, but don't be an idiot and argue about game performance. Football isn't rocket science and while I don't doubt Perkins, a senior who busted his ass all four years, made fewer mistakes, if the mistakes Robinson made were enough to negate all the value added he brings, even semi-serious fans would be able to tell.

[engie]

if the mistakes Robinson made were enough to negate all the value added he brings, even semi-serious fans would be able to tell.

Exactly. The Missed Assignment argument is a ridiculous one. "Well, we'll never know -- so just blindly trust the coaches" is how we end up with total cluster17s in EVERY major program at MSU several times in the last decade. And THEN, that "overriding trust for coach" SABOTAGES the immediate success for the next coach. This is something that I will NEVER understand about MSU athletics fans.

To me, it is like arguing that it's a good idea to sit a .500 hitter with better power behind a .300 hitter -- because he's possibly more prone to making baserunning mistakes. It's ridiculous. It would take CONSTANT, GLARING mistakes to override the difference in production seen on the field.

[TheDogFather]

Exactly. The Missed Assignment argument is a ridiculous one. "Well, we'll never know -- so just blindly trust the coaches" is how we end up with total cluster17s in EVERY major program at MSU several times in the last decade. And THEN, that "overriding trust for coach" SABOTAGES the immediate success for the next coach. This is something that I will NEVER understand about MSU athletics fans.

To me, it is like arguing that it's a good idea to sit a .500 hitter with better power behind a .300 hitter -- because he's possibly more prone to making baserunning mistakes. It's ridiculous. It would take CONSTANT, GLARING mistakes to override the difference in production seen on the field.

OK. You win. We'll just go with your analysis of player performance based on watching games on TV. That'll take us a lot farther than our dumbass bunch of coaches trying to keep the best players off the field for no reason.

[engie]

OK. You win. We'll just go with your analysis of player performance based on watching games on TV. That'll take us a lot farther than our dumbass bunch of coaches trying to keep the best players off the field for no reason.

It'll certainly take us farther than your blind loyalty to something that goes against everyone here's eyeball test -- and every tangible statistic produced.

But hey -- RON IS GOING TO FIX IT!!1!1

[Johnson85]

OK. You win. We'll just go with your analysis of player performance based on watching games on TV. That'll take us a lot farther than our dumbass bunch of coaches trying to keep the best players off the field for no reason.

yes, maybe we will judge players' performance based on something crazy like their actual performance.

Again, it doesn't mean Mullen didn't have a good reason for limiting Robinson's touches, but it wasn't based on game performance.

[Todd4State]

But you will never be able to analyze all of the data because you don't have access to it. You can keep trying though.

You are definitely in the crowd with the blatant mistrust of our coaching staff. And there's nothing wrong with that.

And neither will you. But at least I've brought something tangible to the table to back up my views as opposed to blindly trusting the coaches because they are the coaches and accusing people of "bashing" players.

Heaven forbid that we should want our players to be in the best position possible to produce- which is somehow miscontrued as bashing our players in your head.

[Todd4State]

Stats don't show the whole picture. As I've said in this thread a dozen times. Anyone with any coaching experience knows this.

This thread is like dealing with the parents of high school athletes. The more they talk the dumber they prove themselves to be.

Congratulations on typing perhaps the most ironic thing I've ever seen on a message board in 10 years.

[TheDogFather]

yes, maybe we will judge players' performance based on something crazy like their actual performance.

Again, it doesn't mean Mullen didn't have a good reason for limiting Robinson's touches, but it wasn't based on game performance.

Dude, do you even read the threads before responding?

The point is not how to judge the player, but the amount of data you (meaning YOU) have to make up the actual performance as you so eloquently bolded and underlined. Actual performance is not made up of only what you see on TV. Which is all your monday morning quarterback ass has to use.

There are a lot of stupid athletic directors that have passed you up as a coaching candidate. You should send your resume out more often.

[Johnson85]

Dude, do you even read the threads before responding?

The point is not how to judge the player, but the amount of data you (meaning YOU) have to make up the actual performance as you so eloquently bolded and underlined. Actual performance is not made up of only what you see on TV. Which is all your monday morning quarterback ass has to use.

There are a lot of stupid athletic directors that have passed you up as a coaching candidate. You should send your resume out more often.

Do you read the posts? Game performance (and "game" was actually underlined in the post), does consist of what happens on the field. On the field, Robinson performed better than Perkins. That doesn't necessarily mean that Mullen was wrong to play Perkins ahead of him, but don't be an idiot and suggest that semi-serious fans were somehow missing all the mistakes he was making that actually resulted in him not performing as well as Perkins. If he was constantly missing blocks or screwing up by running the wrong play, you'd see it in the overall result, even if you didn't spend sundays breaking down film.

[Todd4State]

And I'll throw this out there- IF a player is performing better in practice over a player that is more productive on game day- I'm totally OK starting the player that is practicing better. They get the reward of being a starter and getting introduced on the video board. BUT- it makes zero sense to play a player that is not performing as well on game day over a better option for the majority of the game.

It gets to a point where there is a gray area where you begin to hurt the team because a coach feels like a player is subjectively performing better in practice.

We saw the exact same thing last year with Cherrington over PJ Jones.

[TheDogFather]

People love arguing sports and will use stats alot to back their positions.
Upon seeing said stats, some people realize players/teams may not have been as good as they believed them to be or remembered.
Posting stats is not bashing players/coaches- but showing what took place. Stats also dont tell the whole story and may be skewed at times.

I think everybody here appreciates the effort Perk gave us and wishes him well. But its also pretty obvious JRob deserved more carries in 2013. Less carries in 2013 for Perkins would not have slighted him, but would have been a credit to JRob and what he brought to the table.

Quite a contradiction. You state that people use stats erroneously. Yet then you state it is obvious the coaches screwed up based upon the only data available - stats.

I return to my point that the underlying issue here - which nobody admits - is that there is a blatant mistrust of the coaching staff. And people will use what is available to prove it regardless of the absence of enough knowledge to even make a valid argument.

I challenge you to find any coach worth his mettle who decides who plays based on game stats alone. And to say anything is "pretty obvious" when being only an outsider is again, irresponsible.

So for anyone to stomp their feet like an adolescent because they think they can prove their point with a small percentage of the data is sadly mistaken.

An excellent point is the droves of misled posters who spent most of the season criticizing Nickoe Whitley based on "actual performance" or "game stats". In the end NW did not "suck" as I read multiple times and was being praised for his toughness and persistence in playing through injury.

[Schultzy]

It's not blatant mistrust, you are overstating it. All coaches are fallible as are all people. People also have opinions and sometimes those opinions are strongly held.

Many feel Robinson was a better runner and still appreciated Perkins who is also good. I feel Mullen is bit too loyal to upperclassmen sometimes. That is not blatant mistrust.

[MSUDawg4Life]

Quite a contradiction. You state that people use stats erroneously. Yet then you state it is obvious the coaches screwed up based upon the only data available - stats.

I return to my point that the underlying issue here - which nobody admits - is that there is a blatant mistrust of the coaching staff. And people will use what is available to prove it regardless of the absence of enough knowledge to even make a valid argument.

I challenge you to find any coach worth his mettle who decides who plays based on game stats alone. And to say anything is "pretty obvious" when being only an outsider is again, irresponsible.

So for anyone to stomp their feet like an adolescent because they think they can prove their point with a small percentage of the data is sadly mistaken.

An excellent point is the droves of misled posters who spent most of the season criticizing Nickoe Whitley based on "actual performance" or "game stats". In the end NW did not "suck" as I read multiple times and was being praised for his toughness and persistence in playing through injury.

Amen. Excellent post.

What we have is a bunch of self-important people who want others to think they know more than they actually do. It's good to know everyone doesn't fall for their bull.

[OldFatDog]

Amen. Excellent post.

What we have is a bunch of self-important people who want others to think they know more than they actually do. It's good to know everyone doesn't fall for their bull.

I second the amen. Our fans have a compulsive need to bitch.

[K9 Avenger]

I second the amen. Our fans have a compulsive need to bitch.

I third the Amen.....bravo!!!

[Todd4State]

Quite a contradiction. You state that people use stats erroneously. Yet then you state it is obvious the coaches screwed up based upon the only data available - stats.

I return to my point that the underlying issue here - which nobody admits - is that there is a blatant mistrust of the coaching staff. And people will use what is available to prove it regardless of the absence of enough knowledge to even make a valid argument.

I challenge you to find any coach worth his mettle who decides who plays based on game stats alone. And to say anything is "pretty obvious" when being only an outsider is again, irresponsible.

So for anyone to stomp their feet like an adolescent because they think they can prove their point with a small percentage of the data is sadly mistaken.

An excellent point is the droves of misled posters who spent most of the season criticizing Nickoe Whitley based on "actual performance" or "game stats". In the end NW did not "suck" as I read multiple times and was being praised for his toughness and persistence in playing through injury.

So, who's more "self-important" here? The ones having a sports discussion or the guy trying to tell everyone that they don't know what they are talking about because they aren't at every practice and don't have every practice stat?

[K9 Avenger]

So, who's more "self-important" here? The ones having a sports discussion or the guy trying to tell everyone that they don't know what they are talking about because they aren't at every practice and don't have every practice stat?
Uh, the ones who developed their vast store of football knowledge while playing in the high school band?

[Todd4State]

Uh, the ones who developed their vast store of football knowledge while playing in the high school band?

It's a shame I still have more football knowledge than you.

I guess that proves you learn more about football in the bandstand than you do as a male cheerleader.

[engie]

Uh, the ones who developed their vast store of football knowledge while playing in the high school band?

As opposed to obtaining blind loyalty based on NOTHING at all?

[K9 Avenger]

It's a shame I still have more football knowledge than you.

I guess that proves you learn more about football in the bandstand than you do as a male cheerleader.
Nanny nanny boo boo LOL....how old are you?

[TheDogFather]

Never once stated anyone was bashing players. I did, though, point out that posters were judging player performance with ignorance of the facts.

[K9 Avenger]

As opposed to obtaining blind loyalty based on NOTHING at all?

You've never, ever, never been wrong in your entire life have you? I can just tell....

[TheDogFather]

I don't know who is more "self-important" (whatever in the hell that means). But I do know who is right.

[TheDogFather]

Blind loyalty? No. Understanding that a TV jockey has less knowledge of player performance that a group of men who invest 60 hours a week evaluating, developing, and analyzing their players? You tell me.

[Schultzy]

I maintain that no one was getting bashed here. We are just J-Rob fans and think he deserved more carries based on how well he ran the ball this season.

[TheDogFather]

You are good at listing stats scoured off the internet. How about providing us the analysis of the mistakes that you say are so easily seen? I mean since that is such an integral part of you semi-serious football watching skill set.

I'll add you to the list of invaluable football knowledge that has been incredibly looked over during the multitudes of coaching searches.

[TheDogFather]

Maybe the most intelligent response so far. At least you stated as opinion without attempting to justify it with faulty data.

[Todd4State]

I don't know who is more "self-important" (whatever in the hell that means). But I do know who is right.

Then prove it. You haven't contributed ANYTHING tangible to this thread. All you are doing is telling people that they don't have all the stats. At least I've given you something. Now it's your turn. Give me something.

[Todd4State]

Nanny nanny boo boo LOL....how old are you?

Old enough to not make a dumb post and then edit it by saying that another poster is a "****ing idiot".

[Todd4State]

Never once stated anyone was bashing players. I did, though, point out that posters were judging player performance with ignorance of the facts.

You could be posting about how excited you are to see Josh be the feature back. You could be talking about what a hard-nosed runner he is. You could do those things without shitting on a player that worked his ass off for Mississippi State. But instead, you talk shit about Perkins. I swear. You boys are something.

The above was YOUR post to me.

[OldFatDog]

You could be posting about how excited you are to see Josh be the feature back. You could be talking about what a hard-nosed runner he is. You could do those things without shitting on a player that worked his ass off for Mississippi State. But instead, you talk shit about Perkins. I swear. You boys are something.

The above was YOUR post to me.

Nope. That was my post to you.

[K9 Avenger]

Old enough to not make a dumb post and then edit it by saying that another poster is a "****ing idiot".

i'll actually have to agree with you on that one...apologies

[Todd4State]

Nope. That was my post to you.

Yep. My bad.

[TheDogFather]

Ok. You don't have all the stats. It really is that simple.

You can argue all you want. But it won't change the fact that a statement made without all the facts holds very little value. Unless you are a politician or writ editorials.

[TheDogFather]

Dude you have me confused with someone else. Never once said anything about Perkins.

[Coach34]

Quite a contradiction. You state that people use stats erroneously. Yet then you state it is obvious the coaches screwed up based upon the only data available - stats.

I return to my point that the underlying issue here - which nobody admits - is that there is a blatant mistrust of the coaching staff. And people will use what is available to prove it regardless of the absence of enough knowledge to even make a valid argument.

I challenge you to find any coach worth his mettle who decides who plays based on game stats alone. And to say anything is "pretty obvious" when being only an outsider is again, irresponsible.

So for anyone to stomp their feet like an adolescent because they think they can prove their point with a small percentage of the data is sadly mistaken.

An excellent point is the droves of misled posters who spent most of the season criticizing Nickoe Whitley based on "actual performance" or "game stats". In the end NW did not "suck" as I read multiple times and was being praised for his toughness and persistence in playing through injury.

My retorts to your very well thought out and well written response:

A. Stats can and are used in a very helpful manner in all sports. Defensive coaches use them for tendencies on offensive coaches for example. But while that is helpful, it wont give the the exact answer you are looking for. Stats can be dead on- or they can be skewed and cherry-picked to give you the answer you desire many times. Quite simply- stats are very helpful, but they certainly arent an end all.

B. Your average fan just watches the guy with the ball on offense. They dont check formation, alignment, defensive front, wide side vs near side of the field, etc like coaches or more knowledgeable fans.

C. I'm not your average fan. I look at all that. I look at the RB's pass blocking, carrying out fakes, toughness, etc. Based on gameplay- JRob was the better RB in 2013. Now you are correct in that we dont get to see what they do in the weightroom, study hall, RB group, team drills in practice, hands drills, etc. And all that plays a part in the decision on playing time-as does contribution to the program. Those things are obvious as to why Perkins played more than JRob- because it damn sure wasnt game performance

D. Your Whitley example is not really a good one. He was terrible during 2013 in pass coverage. Now we know that he was a little slow because of a hurt knee- BUT that doesnt change the fact that he was not good in coverage and exploited quite a few times.

[engie]

D. Your Whitley example is not really a good one. He was terrible during 2013 in pass coverage. Now we know that he was a little slow because of a hurt knee- BUT that doesnt change the fact that he was not good in coverage and exploited quite a few times.

Exactly.

But in his mind, you just "bashed" Whitley... So be ready to get bashed as well for "not knowing the whole situation" -- something that he, consequently, also doesn't know!

[Todd4State]

Ok. You don't have all the stats. It really is that simple.

You can argue all you want. But it won't change the fact that a statement made without all the facts holds very little value. Unless you are a politician or writ editorials.

Well, then you're a troll. Because you are not contributing ANYTHING meaningful to this discussion.

You don't call people out for not having all the data IF you don't have the data yourself- because you better believe that the person you are calling out is going to want it. Because as far as I'm concerned you have ZERO credibility and no evidence whatsoever that proves that Perkins was doing everything else better than Robinson in practice. And even IF he was better in practice that doesn't mean you play Perkins like Vick Ballard over a player that is more productive IN GAME.

And you can argue all you want but unfortunately for you, yes the data I have provided and engie for that matter DOES indeed prove that Robinson was a better player and should have at the very least played twice as much as he did. There is NOTHING that is skewed by stats such as yards and touchdowns. You either get the yard or you don't. You get the touchdown or you don't. They both played the same amount of games and received a reasonable sample size of carries to make an informed opinion. And inferring that Robinson somehow misses assignments or isn't a good blocker is laughable when he in fact had the key block against Arkansas to spring Damian Williams for the game winning touchdown against Arkansas. Last time Perkins had a memorable block? I honestly can't think of one. Not to say that he was bad at it- but he wasn't noticably good at it either.

[engie]

inferring that Robinson somehow misses assignments or isn't a good blocker is laughable

Is he not technically "bashing" Robinson by implying that he isn't good at all these things behind the scenes? Does that not make him guilty of the exact same action that he's condemning?

[Todd4State]

Is he not technically "bashing" Robinson by implying that he isn't good at all these things behind the scenes? Does that not make him guilty of the exact same action that he's condemning?

Pretty much, yes.

[TheDogFather]

Well, then you're a troll. Because you are not contributing ANYTHING meaningful to this discussion.

You don't call people out for not having all the data IF you don't have the data yourself- because you better believe that the person you are calling out is going to want it. Because as far as I'm concerned you have ZERO credibility and no evidence whatsoever that proves that Perkins was doing everything else better than Robinson in practice. And even IF he was better in practice that doesn't mean you play Perkins like Vick Ballard over a player that is more productive IN GAME.

And you can argue all you want but unfortunately for you, yes the data I have provided and engie for that matter DOES indeed prove that Robinson was a better player and should have at the very least played twice as much as he did. There is NOTHING that is skewed by stats such as yards and touchdowns. You either get the yard or you don't. You get the touchdown or you don't. They both played the same amount of games and received a reasonable sample size of carries to make an informed opinion. And inferring that Robinson somehow misses assignments or isn't a good blocker is laughable when he in fact had the key block against Arkansas to spring Damian Williams for the game winning touchdown against Arkansas. Last time Perkins had a memorable block? I honestly can't think of one. Not to say that he was bad at it- but he wasn't noticably good at it either.

We've reached the point in the debate where the loser stoops to name calling and confusing the point as to camouflage the loss.

A troll I am not nor never will be.

I have never stated one back is better than the other contrary to your claims. You should do your homework before making false claims because it has only made you look childish. I have never inferred that Robinson missed any assignments or isn't a good blocker. Only that that information is not available, hence the Nickoe Whitley comparison which is a damn good one.

Finally, you have come full circle and made my point. You nor I nor anyone has all of the information necessary to make these wide, ambiguous judgments about player performance, but unfortunately for your argument, I am not the one making the judgements - go back and read the posts. I am merely pointing out the irrelevant, and misinformed statements of others which do nothing but inflate themselves as a faux expert and incorrectly pin negative comments on individuals they do not know or seem to care about.

Therefore, you should just cut your losses and excuse yourself from this conversation because - just as in your JR vs LP argument - you are leaving important information out of this argument as well. Which, ironically makes you the one not contributing a thing to the debate, and by your definition, a troll.

[TheDogFather]

I am not implying anything, so don't make me out to be some sort of shit stirrer. What I am doing is directly calling out those who are making misinformed statements at the expense of a player in order to either inflate their ego or inflict damage to the coaching staff of whom they know very little about.

As has become a common theme in this thread you haven't made a effort to understand my posts and only are reacting emotionally because you've been offended somehow.

If I've offended you, I don't care.

[TheDogFather]

I agree with with you, and am not surprised that you are one of the few that can respond without letting emotions cloud their judgement. I only disagree with D. My point was not to analyze NW's performance but just to make the point to people are generally jumping to conclusions without having all of the information.

This is the case with nearly every aspect of running the football program. What the fans - even the most informed - don't want to admit is that they are privy to a small percentage of what occurs and is necessary in making decisions in all aspects.

This is not to say that fans can't have opinions. Just don't state them as facts - it is irresponsible.