Applewhite to Transfer

[TheRef]

Per Rick Ray today. No word of where he will transfer to.

[Coach34]

This is surprising and something that cant become a trend. Hopefully Ray is clearing room for a certain juco in Scooba

[maroonmania]

Boy, that kind of came out of nowhere. Well, I guess we have room for Pollard now.

[SignalToNoise]

I assume that is going to hurt us.

[Jacksondevildog]

I'll tell you this, Ray better get his ****ing act together on the recruiting trail.

[maroonmania]

Yes, will significantly hurt us in SEC play. He was a solid player for a RFr.

[Political Hack]

he was a damn good all around player who wasn't a "me first" guy. Sucks to lose him. I thought we needed him, Colin, and Johnson to have a big year for us to have success in the SEC.

[defiantdog]

I hope this transferring stuff doesn't become a trend with us

[maroonmania]

I'll tell you this, Ray better get his ****ing act together on the recruiting trail.

Agreed, its one thing to lose Lewis and Steele from the team who were Stans' recruits but its a bad sign when you start losing your own recruits.

[JOHNHEVESYMADE]

None of the players know why he's transferring. It wasn't for grades and it wasn't disciplinary. He won't be back for SEC play so we are already down some players. This signing 4 players and only 1 being eligible is starting to hurt us now. You have to have depth for SEC play and we don't have that.

[msugolf]

That's strike 1 on Rick Ray. If he doesn't sign Pollard, that's strike 2. He doesn't get a pass this year.

[smootness]

I hope this transferring stuff doesn't become a trend with us

Agreed, but everyone has to be prepared for it in college basketball these days. I defended it when it happened under Stans, and I'll defend it when it happens under Ray as well, assuming it doesn't get out of hand.

Just do some research on how many D1 basketball transfers there are these days; it's pretty staggering overall, and it happens to every program.

I hate losing Applewhite; I really, really liked his game, and there's no way to spin it as a positive. But it will happen.

[Coach34]

Only way to spin this positive is if we get a Pollard or somebody like that signed after the season.

[notsofarawaydawg]

So many assumptions going on here. You have no clue what goes on within the team. You have no clue what goes on in practice. Experts all the way around with limited knowledge of the situation and you are laying this on Ray, not the player himself. Strike 1 my ass. You act like a bunch of playground thugs who ****ing know it all. **** APPLEWHITE the QUITTER.

[TheRef]

So many assumptions going on here. You have no clue what goes on within the team. You have no clue what goes on in practice. Experts all the way around with limited knowledge of the situation and you are laying this on Ray, not the player himself. Strike 1 my ass. You act like a bunch of playground thugs who ****ing know it all. **** APPLEWHITE the QUITTER.

He may be on one side of the spectrum, but you're on the other.

[JOHNHEVESYMADE]

True getting Pollard would be a major upgrade.

[civildawg]

I agree. My patience with ray just took a hit. He better start showing me something

[Ifyouonlyknew]

So apparently Applewhite wanted a bigger role in the offense. Not sure what you say about that except good luck finding it.

[TheRef]

So apparently Applewhite wanted a bigger role in the offense. Not sure what you say about that except good luck finding it.

Who's your source, if you don't mind?

[Bothrops]

Isn't this a strange time to be wanting to transfer?

[Ifyouonlyknew]

I know a couple guys with the program. Not players.


Who's your source, if you don't mind?

[engie]

Only way to spin this positive is if we get a Pollard or somebody like that signed after the season.

Are we 100% sure that Pollard would be ineligible to come at Christmas? I know it's a little dicey with academic qualifiers that kick back to JUCO.

I know football players can early enroll back into a 4-yr school after one semester in JUCO(Cam Newton, etc...) -- but they aren't playing in actual games in that first semester back in the big school. So maybe that's a difference?

[smootness]

So apparently Applewhite wanted a bigger role in the offense. Not sure what you say about that except good luck finding it.

And this is why you see so many college basketball transfers. I don't know what it is about basketball, but so many kids have a view of themselves that is different from reality. It may be bred during AAU or because they usually carried the load in HS, but you see a lot of kids like this...pretty good players who weren't especially highly-recruited, that get a chance at a BCS school, aren't 'the man' right away early in their careers, and want to go somewhere where they think they can make that happen.

I know I'm generalizing in the case of Applewhite, and I don't know him and know very little about him, just saying that is becoming a pretty common thing in college basketball. Rarely do you see anyone stay and graduate at a school if he doesn't at least start at some point in his career. I get it at places like UNC...if you can't cut it there, you still may be able to be a big deal at a decent school. But this is just the way it goes, has to be incredibly frustrating for coaches.

If it's true that he wanted a bigger role in the offense, he's going to have to go to a place like UNC-Greensboro or the like, and even then he may struggle to find what he wants. It's not like we're lighting the world on fire. I think if he had stayed the course, he could have been a really big contributor in his career, though he's never going to be a go-to guy on a good team. He should have taken the Roquez Johnson approach and become the 'energy guy' who does all the little things. Ah well.

[Mts68]

Who's your source, if you don't mind?

Just said that on 24/7.

[engie]

What kind of me-first player quits and transfers mid-season though? There's a right way and a wrong way to do things... Unless there is more to the story than meets the eye(hence my previous post's speculation)

[Ifyouonlyknew]

I don't think he could but Cam was in juco 2 semesters.


Are we 100% sure that Pollard would be ineligible to come at Christmas? I know it's a little dicey with academic qualifiers that kick back to JUCO.

I know football players can early enroll back into a 4-yr school after one semester in JUCO(Cam Newton, etc...) -- but they aren't playing in actual games in that first semester back in the big school. So maybe that's a difference?

[Coach34]

So apparently Applewhite wanted a bigger role in the offense. Not sure what you say about that except good luck finding it.

We dont have anybody that can shoot as it is- get the damn ball and take it to the hole or fill it up. He needs to go play juco ball if he wants a bigger role

[ScottH]

Can Daniels play?

I know redshirt is the plan.

[maroonmania]

Just said that on 24/7.

Well what lightly recruited player like Applewhite would transfer for that reason 12 games into his freshman season? I mean Ray signed him in the spring because he was one of the few HS players still available late when Ray first arrived at MSU. Either Applewhite is an idiot or there is more to the story.

[smootness]

Can Daniels play?

I know redshirt is the plan.

It wouldn't make much sense to do so. He would then have to quit playing in the middle of the year in 2015-2016.

[HailState39110]

I would guess there is more to this story. Even Stan's players would wait till the end of the year to transfer

[MadDawg]

I sure am glad the transfer problem has been fixed.

[smootness]

I sure am glad the transfer problem has been fixed.

It isn't a State problem.

[TheRef]

It isn't a State problem.

425 transfers last year.

[smootness]

425 transfers last year.

That is insane. Basketball needs a complete overhaul, at every level. Figure out a way to either remove AAU or drastically reduce its influence (hard for me to figure out a way to do this, may be impossible); either bump the age limit for the NBA up 2 years or institute a baseball-like policy, and figure out a way to make the NBA less about the superstar and more about the team (has already happened to some degree recently, and this may be essentially impossible as well).

[Political Hack]

So many assumptions going on here. You have no clue what goes on within the team. You have no clue what goes on in practice. Experts all the way around with limited knowledge of the situation and you are laying this on Ray, not the player himself. Strike 1 my ass. You act like a bunch of playground thugs who ****ing know it all. **** APPLEWHITE the QUITTER.

unless you know otherwise aren't you doing the same thing to a kid that others on here are doing to an adult? I've always taken the stance that it's ok to rip a coach or a grown man, but don't go after the kids. that's BS.

[Political Hack]

What kind of me-first player quits and transfers mid-season though? There's a right way and a wrong way to do things... Unless there is more to the story than meets the eye(hence my previous post's speculation)

I have a pretty strong feeling that there's more to the story.

[Dawg61]

I'd rather have Pollard or a Juco 3point specialist who can start playing right now. Applewhite not finishing this season points to something else just happened and he's now "transferring". Kinda like Trae Golden was banging the judicial affairs faculty member at UT and then just suddenly "transferred" to GTech. Tevin Moore and DeRunnya Wilson can fill Applewhite's minutes till next year.

[preachermatt83]

Rick Ray will not be a head basketball coach in major college basketball after next season. It's time to start facing the music guys.

[Johnson85]

That is insane. Basketball needs a complete overhaul, at every level.

You already have to sit out a year unless you move to a lower division. If somebody wants to transfer at that price, they should be able to.

[smootness]

You already have to sit out a year unless you move to a lower division. If somebody wants to transfer at that price, they should be able to.

I know, I'm not saying they should institute rules to specifically curtail transferring. I'm saying the whole system needs to change because this is what it's breeding. It's breeding a bunch of kids who want to be superstars and apparently lack much self-awareness or desire to be part of a team.

And I'm not aiming any of this at Applewhite specifically; again, I don't know much about that situation. But this has triggered the discussion of the transferring problem all over college basketball. AAU isn't really teaching good basketball fundamentals, the NBA has been teaching kids for years that basketball is all about being 'the man' and dominating the ball so you can be like Michael Jordan, and boosters/AAU coaches are destroying what is left of college basketball.

[bobcat91]

More and more will come out on Rick Ray and you will shake your head. He was fired from Purdue as he couldn't recruit. He was not the top assistant at Clemson and rumors of his leaving there due to recruiting were beginning to come to light as well. He has done nothing at MSU to make me think he is any different here. What he has done is get rid of Stans players and replaced them with guys who can't shot, rebound or hit free throws. When all is said and done, you are going to have to take a long look at Stricklins decisionmaking. You are not going to like what you see.

[HoopsDawg]

More and more will come out on Rick Ray and you will shake your head. He was fired from Purdue as he couldn't recruit. He was not the top assistant at Clemson and rumors of his leaving there due to recruiting were beginning to come to light as well. He has done nothing at MSU to make me think he is any different here. What he has done is get rid of Stans players and replaced them with guys who can't shot, rebound or hit free throws. When all is said and done, you are going to have to take a long look at Stricklins decisionmaking. You are not going to like what you see.

Speaking of "decision-making" from Stricklin, it always bothered me that we signed Ray to 1 million a year. Don't tell me he wouldn't have taken the job for 750K/per year, 500K/year? Is our athletic budget so big we can throw away 250K/year. Hell, that would have more than covered all those annoying ads on the Moo-Tube.

[sbcmortgageman]

I thought applewhite had been starting recently. I don't buy the more playing time on this team. EVERYBODY gets to play because the have to.

[TheRef]

I thought applewhite had been starting recently. I don't buy the more playing time on this team. EVERYBODY gets to play because the have to.

He has been...I don't get his excuse.

[sbcmortgageman]

He has been...I don't get his excuse.

Hate to say it, but I'm going with too many Moultrie knee problems. Surprised no ones mentioned that.

[preachermatt83]

More and more will come out on Rick Ray and you will shake your head. He was fired from Purdue as he couldn't recruit. He was not the top assistant at Clemson and rumors of his leaving there due to recruiting were beginning to come to light as well. He has done nothing at MSU to make me think he is any different here. What he has done is get rid of Stans players and replaced them with guys who can't shot, rebound or hit free throws. When all is said and done, you are going to have to take a long look at Stricklins decisionmaking. You are not going to like what you see.

sadly you are correct. I can't figure out how the same man who hired coach vic and coach vann is the same guy who hired ray. Ray had no business even being in the discussion. I have been very quite about Rick Ray for the most part and Im not here to run him down but Im telling you guys his hiring will end up being one of the biggest hiring flop in msu history in any sport.

[msstate7]

So ray's back to a bust bc applewhite's transferring out...

I'll hold judgement till I see how we finish and who we fill applewhite's spot with.

[preachermatt83]

Ray never stopped being a bust and I don't think he ever will. I hope Im wrong but just don't think I am.

[NewTweederEndzoneDance]

sadly you are correct. I can't figure out how the same man who hired coach vic and coach vann is the same guy who hired ray. Ray had no business even being in the discussion. I have been very quite about Rick Ray for the most part and Im not here to run him down but Im telling you guys his hiring will end up being one of the biggest hiring flop in msu history in any sport.

wow. just wow. I'm really trying to figure out how it is possible to reply to any of your posts in this thread without calling you a ****ing idiot. and not just your posts, but those posted by some of the others as well. so i'm just going to go with "wow", shake my head and chalk it up to general message board ****tard-ery.

[maroonmania]

I really don't know much of anything about Ray's coaching achievements, or lack thereof, prior to his arrival at MSU, but it is kind of odd that 99% of the posts about him after the 9-3 start was that things seem to be progressing well and the team is playing hard and looking better this year. Now, with the announcement of Applewhite transferring, we've got multiple posters coming out with info they've been holding back on that trashes Ray as a coach and basically tells us all we will rue the day Stricklin hired him. I really don't know what to believe but its just strange how the posting tide has turned on Ray seemingly just due to a backup player announcing a transfer.

[mic]

A kid doesn't just transfer out during the season so something else is def up. and secomd of all if he excuse was to be more involved in the offense.. I am sure he would have been if he was actually a scorer. With the problems we have putting the ball in the basket im sure if he was a scorer he would have gotten the touches to score.
With that said I liked the way he played. reminded me a Brandon Vincent type player. Bang around a little , do some dirty work on the boards, and play defense and get ya 8 pts a game.
If he wants to be a SCORER he better go like coach34 said to juco. And Im not sure he would avg 15-20 a game there either.

This does mean one thing De'Runnya gets much more PT and quickly..
Fingers crossed for no bad injury karma with him. It seems to follow our basketball program right now..

[NewTweederEndzoneDance]

I really don't know much of anything about Ray's coaching achievements, or lack thereof, prior to his arrival at MSU, but it is kind of odd that 99% of the posts about him after the 9-3 start was that things seem to be progressing well and the team is playing hard and looking better this year. Now, with the announcement of Applewhite transferring, we've got multiple posters coming out with info they've been holding back on that trashes Ray as a coach and basically tells us all we will rue the day Stricklin hired him. I really don't know what to believe but its just strange how the posting tide has turned on Ray seemingly just due to a backup player announcing a transfer.

its the same yahoos with hurt feelings, agendas, or whatever you want to call it. every single time we so much as turn the ball over during a game they come out of the wood work. we get it. they still want Stans, or they wanted Kenny Payne, or they just suck at life. regardless, they actually take joy in bad things happening to what is supposed to be their school just so they can "be right". its sickening.

[preachermatt83]

its the same yahoos with hurt feelings, agendas, or whatever you want to call it. every single time we so much as turn the ball over during a game they come out of the wood work. we get it. they still want Stans, or they wanted Kenny Payne, or they just suck at life. regardless, they actually take joy in bad things happening to what is supposed to be their school just so they can "be right". its sickening.

well hey there Rick, nice to see ya. Ya missing Clemson yet?

[HailState39110]

I was a Stan's guy and I am pulling for Ray like everyone else should. It is hard though to see any progress in the middle of year 2 and it will be a miracle if he can turn it in year 3 like Cohen did

[NewTweederEndzoneDance]

I was a Stan's guy and I am pulling for Ray like everyone else should. It is hard though to see any progress in the middle of year 2 and it will be a miracle if he can turn it in year 3 like Cohen did

We aren't world beaters. There is no denying that. And if he can't get it done in the next few years, then we will move on like we should. But to say there has been no improvement since last season at this point is just assinine. Last season we were losing these games to terrible opponents. Last year we went 10-22. We are 9-3 right now. How exactly do you define progress?

[HailState39110]

I'm not looking at our current record after beating a few SWAC schools.Im looking at our current roster and the guys we are bringing in next year. Nothing Ray is doing makes me believe we will ever be able to compete for conference championships or make the NCAA tournament. All he has done is kick players off the team and has replaced them with players who are not as good . This is how I am defining his progress

[NewTweederEndzoneDance]

I'm not looking at our current record after beating a few SWAC schools.Im looking at our current roster and the guys we are bringing in next year. Nothing Ray is doing makes me believe we will ever be able to compete for conference championships or make the NCAA tournament. All he has done is kick players off the team and has replaced them with players who are not as good . This is how I am defining his progress

Ah, so you are defining "progress" by your own subjective feelings of the job he is doing and your own evaluation of players, most of which you have never even seen play, much less have any idea how they will be as players next year or thereafter. With such impeccable reasoning, I don't know how I ever supported our coach in the first place!!!!1!!**

[engie]

I was a Stan's guy and I am pulling for Ray like everyone else should. It is hard though to see any progress in the middle of year 2 and it will be a miracle if he can turn it in year 3 like Cohen did

Was Cohen's turnaround, then, also a "miracle"?

It's stupid to try to define a coach that inherited the shitstorm that Ray did before he's had time to get it going(year 3 we start judging). Just like we had an ample amount of idiots screaming from the rooftops that Cohen was a huge f'n mistake for the better part 3 full years. Even had some playing that card into year 4.

Prognosticating right now, based on basically nothing other than player turnover when instilling a culture change, is dumb. It's basically exactly what people did with Cohen. And everyone can say "well that was different" with hindsight -- but I can show you HUNDREDS of threads and posts that say things were exactly the same.

[HoopsDawg]

Ah, so you are defining "progress" by your own subjective feelings of the job he is doing and your own evaluation of players, most of which you have never even seen play, much less have any idea how they will be as players next year or thereafter. With such impeccable reasoning, I don't know how I ever supported our coach in the first place!!!!1!!**

The only improvement is the schedule. I think last year's team might have been better b/c of Steele. Last year's team went 5-7 in the non-conference. This year's team would have gone 6-6 with the same schedule b/c I will give them the win over Alabama A&M.

[engie]

The only improvement is the schedule. I think last year's team might have been better b/c of Steele. Last year's team went 5-7 in the non-conference. This year's team would have gone 6-6 with the same schedule b/c I will give them the win over Alabama A&M.

This is the dumbest shit I've read in awhile. Well, besides every other basketball post that a handful of you make. This team beats Troy and Loyola. So, we're at 8-4 with last year's nonconference schedule.

Given your brilliant prognostication ability to see this clear lack of progression -- please tell me you are willing to bet on us winning 4 or fewer in the SEC again?

[HoopsDawg]

This is the dumbest shit I've read in awhile. Well, besides every other basketball post that a handful of you make. This team beats Troy and Loyola. So, we're at 8-4 with last year's nonconference schedule.

Given your brilliant prognostication ability to see this clear lack of progression -- please tell me you are willing to bet on us winning 4 or fewer in the SEC again?

I'll take 5 or under for 1K.

[HoopsDawg]

This is the dumbest shit I've read in awhile. Well, besides every other basketball post that a handful of you make. This team beats Troy and Loyola. So, we're at 8-4 with last year's nonconference schedule.

Given your brilliant prognostication ability to see this clear lack of progression -- please tell me you are willing to bet on us winning 4 or fewer in the SEC again?

Speaking of dumb, we beat Loyola by 1 point, at home, in OT yet you've got us beating them on the road? LOL Also a team that beats JSU by 2 and SELA by 4 isn't a lock over anyone especially at Troy in Troy's first game in the new arena.

[Dawg61]

I would of preferred it be a different player than Dre. because I like his physical upside and toughness for a freshman but I do want to see more minutes for Tevin Moore and hopefully Bear Wilson and this frees up 15-20 minutes a game for them. I've been saying Ray needs to upgrade 4 players on the roster. Applewhite wasn't one of the four I would of chosen but it sounds like Dre chose it for Ray. Applewhite can be replaced fairly easily and if it's Devonta Pollard we get now than this ends up being a big upgrade in talent.

[ShotgunDawg]

Can Hud coach Basketball?

By the way, I've been done with college basketball an basketball in general for a few years. I just don't like the culture of the sport.

This will probably be the last post I ever make on this sport.

[HailState39110]

It's pointless to argue about this right now. Lets continue this conversation at the end of February

[bobcat91]

So now we are saying this is a great improvement because we are winning more with agutted schedule. Great analysis. Our RPI is right at 150 and SOS is near 300. But let's be thankful that we were in a game with folks like Prairie View with 3 minutes left. Let's be glad that of the 4 recruits we had last year only one is playing. Oh wow we are 9-3. And have to offer free tickets and pizza to get people to come. Oh Hail Rick Ray.

[engie]

Speaking of dumb, we beat Loyola by 1 point, at home, in OT yet you've got us beating them on the road? LOL Also a team that beats JSU by 2 and SELA by 4 isn't a lock over anyone especially at Troy in Troy's first game in the new arena.

All without our starting point guard and the key to our offense. But don't let facts get in the way of your agenda...

[engie]

So now we are saying this is a great improvement because we are winning more with agutted schedule. Great analysis. Our RPI is right at 150 and SOS is near 300. But let's be thankful that we were in a game with folks like Prairie View with 3 minutes left. Let's be glad that of the 4 recruits we had last year only one is playing. Oh wow we are 9-3. And have to offer free tickets and pizza to get people to come. Oh Hail Rick Ray.

http://my.jetscreenshot.com/12222/m_20131231-4pjo-170kb.jpg (http://my.jetscreenshot.com/12222/20131231-4pjo-170kb)

By your genius analysis of our improvement -- we should be an NIT lock in year 3.

Oh -- I forgot -- good coaches win in year 1 in basketball!!1!1 Turning around dumpster fires is easy!!1!1

http://my.jetscreenshot.com/12222/m_20131231-lxwa-44kb.jpg (http://my.jetscreenshot.com/12222/20131231-lxwa-44kb)

[HoopsDawg]

http://my.jetscreenshot.com/12222/m_20131231-4pjo-170kb.jpg (http://my.jetscreenshot.com/12222/20131231-4pjo-170kb)

By your genius analysis of our improvement -- we should be an NIT lock in year 3.

Oh -- I forgot -- good coaches win in year 1 in basketball!!1!1 Turning around dumpster fires is easy!!1!1

http://my.jetscreenshot.com/12222/m_20131231-lxwa-44kb.jpg (http://my.jetscreenshot.com/12222/20131231-lxwa-44kb)

So we are heading to the sweet 16 in year 4? Awesome, can't wait.
Is Ray recruiting as well as Crean did? Awesome, I didn't realize that.
Does Ray have Crean's resume? Nice, I thought he was the bench coach for a Clemson team that missed the NCAAT.

[bobcat91]

http://my.jetscreenshot.com/12222/m_20131231-4pjo-170kb.jpg (http://my.jetscreenshot.com/12222/20131231-4pjo-170kb)

By your genius analysis of our improvement -- we should be an NIT lock in year 3.

Oh -- I forgot -- good coaches win in year 1 in basketball!!1!1 Turning around dumpster fires is easy!!1!1

http://my.jetscreenshot.com/12222/m_20131231-lxwa-44kb.jpg (http://my.jetscreenshot.com/12222/20131231-lxwa-44kb)

Warren nolen says different. Some will take another year to realize what a shitty coach and guy Ray is. Oh well continue being an idiot.

[engie]

I'll take 5 or under for 1K.

You said we aren't improved. Why are you wanting a game?

This is funny. I've made these bets several times and never seen a dollar -- hence why I no longer make them. But you are a ****ing moron if you think we win 4 or fewer in the SEC. Why do you need a game -- if you are so sure we aren't any better than last year?

This team is going to go 7-11 or 8-10 in the SEC. Bookmark it and let me know when I'm wrong

[engie]

So we are heading to the sweet 16 in year 4? Awesome, can't wait.
Nice straw man bullshit.


Is Ray recruiting as well as Crean did? Awesome, I didn't realize that.
Crean missed the top 25 with 2 of his first 3 classes.


Does Ray have Crean's resume? Nice, I thought he was the bench coach for a Clemson team that missed the NCAAT.
Which has what to do with anything? Resume doesn't mean SHIT. Results do -- and it is what it is at this point.

Are you ****ing stupid enough to imply that it is easier to win at MSU than Indiana? Why, then, did it take Crean 4 years to get it going at a national powerhouse program? I mean -- it should be a 5 minute rebuild, right? Why didn't he have them in the tournament in year 2?

[NewTweederEndzoneDance]

Warren nolen says different. Some will take another year to realize what a shitty coach and guy Ray is. Oh well continue being an idiot.

we have absolutely the worst fans in college sports. i know all schools have their share of complete clowns, but it's really not even close. look no further than this ****tard for proof.

and no, i'm not sorry in the least for using insulting language. this topic has been hashed and rehashed time and again. some people really do want us to fail in men's basketball because they are so butthurt about the coaching change, whether its the fire or the hire. at this point it is really just infuriating.

/rantoff

[HoopsDawg]

Nice straw man bullshit.


Crean missed the top 25 with 2 of his first 3 classes.


Are you ****ing stupid enough to imply that it is easier to win at MSU than Indiana? Why, then, did it take Crean 4 years to get it going at a national powerhouse program? I mean -- it should be a 5 minute rebuild, right? Why didn't he have them in the tournament in year 2?

I keep forgetting I'm talking to someone who rode the short bus to school. Indiana was on probation for Crean's first 3 years with recruiting sanctions to deal with. He inherited a team with ONE returning scholarship player. They were dealing with death penalty worries and Sampson got nailed. They had 7 players transfer.

[engie]

Warren nolen says different. Some will take another year to realize what a shitty coach and guy Ray is. Oh well continue being an idiot.

No, it doesn't. I love when morons spout off baseless bullshit while telling OTHERS to "continue being idiots." You can tell me about your eye test all you want -- but don't try to back it with bullshit made-up numbers -- because when you do that, I have to destroy you.

http://my.jetscreenshot.com/12222/m_20131231-95b6-44kb.jpg (http://my.jetscreenshot.com/12222/20131231-95b6-44kb)

http://my.jetscreenshot.com/12222/m_20131231-rkhm-45kb.jpg (http://my.jetscreenshot.com/12222/20131231-rkhm-45kb)

Wanna try again "idiot"?

With the same amount of RPI improvement next year that we've seen thusfar this year = borderline NCAA Tourney Team = RIGHT ON SCHEDULE.


We "peaked" at #224 in RPI last year.
http://my.jetscreenshot.com/12222/m_20131231-wi1q-62kb.jpg (http://my.jetscreenshot.com/12222/20131231-wi1q-62kb)

We've gone up between 80 and 100 spots this year.
http://my.jetscreenshot.com/12222/m_20131231-7rga-93kb.jpg (http://my.jetscreenshot.com/12222/20131231-7rga-93kb)

[engie]

we have absolutely the worst fans in college sports. i know all schools have their share of complete clowns, but it's really not even close. look no further than this ****tard for proof.

and no, i'm not sorry in the least for using insulting language. this topic has been hashed and rehashed time and again. some people really do want us to fail in men's basketball because they are so butthurt about the coaching change, whether its the fire or the hire. at this point it is really just infuriating.

/rantoff

Exactly.

The bad thing is -- these ****ers are trying to paint me into a "Ray lover" corner -- when my ONLY point is that it's ****ing stupid to try to draw much from these two years. But they are literally too stupid to see the err of the ignorance of their position.

[TheRef]

If I would've known that this would've turned into a pissing match I wouldn't have posted this thread. But since this has turned into a damn pissing match, I'm about sick and tired of y'all. As many of you know, I watch the basketball games religiously and listen to it on the radio when I can't watch. I've noticed an improvement with this team from last season. Are they still frustrating as hell to watch at times? You're damn right. Does this mean that we are as bad as last year? Hell no. Did any of us realistically think that we would make any sort of tournament this year? I can guarantee you that NO ONE thought we would make a tournament and no one has predicted so yet this year. So what's the point of this pissing match? To see who can influence the administration to keep/fire RR? Well I can tell you that none of y'all will be able to determine that. And yes, they are doing gimmicks to put asses in seats. But they did the same exact thing during Stansbury's last year to put butts in seats due to the piss-poor performance of the team down the stretch. I've been with the team through the highs, and you bet your ass I was one of the few students who stayed during every single slaughter that we were at the hands of during the bad years. Why? Because I bleed MSU and I will always support the basketball team. I can bet that most of you can't say that. I can be that most of you would have walked out at halftime during a slaughter, and don't say you wouldn't because I know how you people are. You talk like you're the greatest fans in the world and as if you know all there is about basketball. Then you walk out on the team at halftime and YOU'RE the reason why the team is demoralized game in and game out. Fans like you are the reason why I want to punch people in the face. Extreme? Maybe. My true feelings? You're damn right.
/rant

[engie]

I keep forgetting I'm talking to someone who rode the short bus to school. Indiana was on probation for Crean's first 3 years with recruiting sanctions to deal with. He inherited a team with ONE returning scholarship player. They were dealing with death penalty worries and Sampson got nailed. They had 7 players transfer.

You are literally too stupid to see the similarity in the situations aren't you?

[TheRef]

And for those of you wondering if we've hit rock bottom, not even close. I present to you the Champion Baptist College Tigers against the Southern University Jaguars

https://scontent-b-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/1536693_672031489510277_1446695462_n.jpg

[mic]

I swear the RR haters would rather us lose and say I told ya so than we win.
This thread was about a kid transferring. Trust me there is more to it than what is being said so far. If a kid transfers during the season there better be a really good reason he either got the boot or if he just wanted to transfer then he is a quitter and quit on the team . PERIOD..

Again RR is 10x better X and O coach than Stans. I was even told that by an ex Stands player. So close the book on that

Can he recruit better.?? who knows it hasn't even been 2 years yet. Give him 4 years if there isn't progress I will be the first to say he has to go.

Can he develop talent better.?? I will say yes he can. I think we see Sword is already making a claim to that. How many kids in Stands reign got better.?? very few. Most got worse. because if he could recruit as good as everyone said he could why so few players and I mean very few ever made it to the NBA.

Cleaner program.? yes

So can we please end the RR sucks or whatever posts threads until after next year. Im sure if we are still not making progress in year 4 he will be replaced.
If you want to blame anyone for the shape our Basketball program is in . Look no further than good ole Stands. And if you want to blame Strick for the hire then I have no problem with that.. We all know how and what went down there...

[Coach34]

Here are the facts and people just need to accept them:

1. Stands was done as a coach. Helen Keller even communicated with Stricklin that she recognized that
2. Ray was left a program that was nuked and riddled with druggies
3. Ray is a much better floor coach than Stands
4. Stands of 1993-2006 is a better recruiter than Ray- but Stands also had a helluva network supporting his ass in the process. That network is no longer functioning
5. We are obviously better in Ray's 2nd season than his 1st. And if you watched the effort and heart of what he was left with- his 1st season was a success.

Gonna have to let it play out and see what happens in Ray's first 4 years.

[Dawg61]

It's strange that this transfer has sparked the anti-Ray posts. Applewhite transferring isn't the same as Chicken or Ware transferring. We need better players. Everyone can see that. The roster is full. The only way we get better players is for some of the 13 allotted scholarships already filled to move elsewhere. Here's one that has opened up. Can we use this open spot to sign a better player than Applewhite? Abso****inglutely. We only have 1 of the 12 Dandy Dozen players. Sign any of the others and we've immediately upgraded. The #3 Juco scorer in the nation plays in Alabama. Jay Watkins https://mobile.twitter.com/JayWatkins_4 and he's unsigned. Would he be an upgrade? I think he would be. A former 5* McDonalds All-American is 30 minutes away. Devonta Pollard. Is he an upgrade? Yup for sure. If we want to be sniffing the bubble next year we HAVE to replace 3-4 players with better players. Here's the 1st one to go. Tevin Moore and Bear Wilson are more than capable of replacing 6 points and 6 boards a game for this season. Relax people. MSU will improve from this transfer.

[tcdog70]

Here are the facts and people just need to accept them:

1. Stands was done as a coach. Helen Keller even communicated with Stricklin that she recognized that
2. Ray was left a program that was nuked and riddled with druggies
3. Ray is a much better floor coach than Stands
4. Stands of 1993-2006 is a better recruiter than Ray- but Stands also had a helluva network supporting his ass in the process. That network is no longer functioning
5. We are obviously better in Ray's 2nd season than his 1st. And if you watched the effort and heart of what he was left with- his 1st season was a success.

Gonna have to let it play out and see what happens in Ray's first 4 years.


CALLING BULLSHIT ON #3 AND #5. BASED ON WHAT?? YOUR OPINION?

[smootness]

CALLING BULLSHIT ON #3 AND #5. BASED ON WHAT?? YOUR OPINION?

Yes, that is his opinion. And it's one that's fairly easy to support based on the product on the court and the way it has progressed.

I understand fans who think we made a bad hire and have the opinion that Ray won't get the job done. What I don't get, on any level, is the fans who seem angry about it and vehemently argue with anyone who claims something positive about Ray.

Why would Mississippi State fans be so quick to yell, 'HE SUCKS!!!!' about the Mississippi State coach? When he hasn't really been given a full chance to prove it one way or another?

Again, if you think his tenure will end in disappointment, fine; but why wouldn't you at least wait until that happens before jumping down everyone's throat to be the first to bash him? Makes absolutely no sense to me.

[MabenMaroon]

Agreed, but everyone has to be prepared for it in college basketball these days. I defended it when it happened under Stans, and I'll defend it when it happens under Ray as well, assuming it doesn't get out of hand.

Just do some research on how many D1 basketball transfers there are these days; it's pretty staggering overall, and it happens to every program.

I hate losing Applewhite; I really, really liked his game, and there's no way to spin it as a positive. But it will happen.

Over 400 in DI so far this year

[tcdog70]

Yes, that is his opinion. And it's one that's fairly easy to support based on the product on the court and the way it has progressed.

I understand fans who think we made a bad hire and have the opinion that Ray won't get the job done. What I don't get, on any level, is the fans who seem angry about it and vehemently argue with anyone who claims something positive about Ray.

Why would Mississippi State fans be so quick to yell, 'HE SUCKS!!!!' about the Mississippi State coach? When he hasn't really been given a full chance to prove it one way or another?

Again, if you think his tenure will end in disappointment, fine; but why wouldn't you at least wait until that happens before jumping down everyone's throat to be the first to bash him? Makes absolutely no sense to me.

I just think his Statement that Ray is abetter floor coach Than Stansbury has no substance. I have not seen any great floor coaching by Ray.he Coached in two of our worst loses ever .

this years schedule is the weakest in History. We will know more soon. I am actually glad Applewhite left now Ray can sign Pollard.

[engie]

I just think his Statement that Ray is abetter floor coach Than Stansbury has no substance. I have not seen any great floor coaching by Ray.
Ray makes adjustments during games that we didn't see from Stans teams. When has 1 player beat us for 4 quarters under Ray like they ROUTINELY did against Stansbury teams? We CONSTANTLY make adjustments to take away what other teams are doing well. Plus there is actually an initial scouting report and gameplan in what we do now.

How can people fail to see a difference between a talent problem and a coaching problem? Are they just looking at box scores?


he Coached in two of our worst loses ever .
Cohen lost to Jackson St in year 2. The recruiter lost to Rider, East Tennessee St, etc over a decade into his tenure as well...


this years schedule is the weakest in History.
Complain about bad losses -- then complain about an easy schedule. Which do you prefer during the rebuild? Can't have your cake and eat it too...


We will know more soon. I am actually glad Applewhite left now Ray can sign Pollard.
I agree with this. I still hate losing a player midseason though. Ready to hear the rest of the story...

[tcdog70]

Ray makes adjustments during games that we didn't see from Stans teams. When has 1 player beat us for 4 quarters under Ray like they ROUTINELY did against Stansbury teams? We CONSTANTLY make adjustments to take away what other teams are doing well. Plus there is actually an initial scouting report and gameplan in what we do now.

How can people fail to see a difference between a talent problem and a coaching problem? Are they just looking at box scores?


Cohen lost to Jackson St in year 2. The recruiter lost to Rider, East Tennessee St, etc over a decade into his tenure as well...


Complain about bad losses -- then complain about an easy schedule. Which do you prefer during the rebuild? Can't have your cake and eat it too...


I agree with this. I still hate losing a player midseason though. Ready to hear the rest of the story...

Look , I am not against cupcakes, just don't like all the bragging about beating them. We should have have beaten a pitiful TCU team who didn't even play their best two players. I was just saying it is way to early to say Ray is abetter floor coach the Stans.

I don't get your constant comparison of Ray to John. There is no comparison. There was never a time I didn't believe in JC. There hasn't been a single time I believe in Rick Ray.

I am talking about getting beat by fifty in the Hump, Stans never did that. Shit Ray, hold the damn ball if you have too.

[engie]

Look , I am not against cupcakes, just don't like all the bragging about beating them. We should have have beaten a pitiful TCU team who didn't even play their best two players. I was just saying it is way to early to say Ray is abetter floor coach the Stans.
You say that -- and you are wrong. It just makes it 100% clear to me that you don't understand what is actually happening on the court -- because if you did -- you wouldn't be stating it how you are. You would be taking the approach of the decent basketball posters instead -- saying there are plenty of positives in what is actually happening on the floor and that can be taken and that we need to continue to upgrade talent and depth.


I don't get your constant comparison of Ray to John. There is no comparison. There was never a time I didn't believe in JC. There hasn't been a single time I believe in Rick Ray.
That's your own prerogative. A TON of our fans didn't "believe" in Cohen -- over stuff that happened in REBUILDING YEARS. Exactly like you are losing your mind on Ray over what's happening during a rebuilding year.


I am talking about getting beat by fifty in the Hump, Stans never did that. Shit Ray, hold the damn ball if you have too.
Stansbury built the team he inherited for almost a decade before he took it over. Hardly apples to apples.

But you aren't out to make a fair comparison -- you are out to project Rick Ray in the worst possible light -- for what reason?

[Coach34]

CALLING BULLSHIT ON #3 AND #5. BASED ON WHAT?? YOUR OPINION?

I should ban you for simply being a got-damn moron. But I'm not going to. I want you to hang around and watch us win 7-8 SEC games this year so I can harass you unmercifully

[BiscuitEater]

Don't ever recall Stans going through two years in a row with only 8 scholarship players available to play SEC games.

[Coach34]

2005-2006- Stands 8th year as HC:

Northwestern State 76 State 75 loss
SE Louisiana 57 State 46 loss
Akron 83 State 72 loss

OT wins over:

Santa Clara
Troy

This was just one season of crap under Stands. To act like every season was a party is insane.

[Corey♥DemDawgs]

Was Cohen's turnaround, then, also a "miracle"?

It's stupid to try to define a coach that inherited the shitstorm that Ray did before he's had time to get it going(year 3 we start judging). Just like we had an ample amount of idiots screaming from the rooftops that Cohen was a huge f'n mistake for the better part 3 full years. Even had some playing that card into year 4.

Prognosticating right now, based on basically nothing other than player turnover when instilling a culture change, is dumb. It's basically exactly what people did with Cohen. And everyone can say "well that was different" with hindsight -- but I can show you HUNDREDS of threads and posts that say things were exactly the same.

GREAT POST & SPOT ON!

[HailState39110]

I wish basketball posts wouldn't always have to turn into a Ray vs Stans debate. This thread was about a Ray signee leaving the team midway through the season, then as usual turns into a pissing contest about Rick Ray and Stansbury. I think most on both sides should reserve judgment until after the season on how our program is progressing or declining

[tcdog70]

Don't ever recall Stans going through two years in a row with only 8 scholarship players available to play SEC games.

Exactly, He had more sense than to try it. Ray didn't have to play with eight players. He signed players that couldn't qualify or got hurt or He ran them off.

[tcdog70]

I should ban you for simply being a got-damn moron. But I'm not going to. I want you to hang around and watch us win 7-8 SEC games this year so I can harass you unmercifully

Thanks what a gracious dickhead you are. There are some suck ass SEC teams--Auburn, SC and Ga. But where are the other three wins coming from? The only player that Ray has brought in , in two years that is playing is Ready who is not ready and will be be abused in SEC play.excuse me I forgot about Bloodman, who couldn't play for Delta State.

Hope we win a shitpot load of games in the SEC. If so I gladly eat some crow. But having seen plenty of MSU Coaches( yes even Ron Greene, who you had never heard of) Rick Ray rates up there with Jim Hatfield.

[engie]

Exactly, He had more sense than to try it. Ray didn't have to play with eight players. He signed players that couldn't qualify or got hurt or He ran them off.

Yeah -- it's Ray's fault that Stansbury's guys fail 3+ drug tests and are mandatorily dismissed...Also his fault that we blow out 3(or was it 4) ACLs?

Wow at this stupid agenda you are pushing. I would say you are the worst -- but unfortunately you aren't. You are one of 3 or 4 though -- so keep trying -- and maybe you can assume that role.

[engie]

Thanks what a gracious dickhead you are. There are some suck ass SEC teams--Auburn, SC and Ga. But where are the other three wins coming from? The only player that Ray has brought in , in two years that is playing is Ready who is not ready and will be be abused in SEC play.excuse me I forgot about Bloodman, who couldn't play for Delta State.

Hope we win a shitpot load of games in the SEC. If so I gladly eat some crow. But having seen plenty of MSU Coaches( yes even Ron Greene, who you had never heard of) Rick Ray rates up there with Jim Hatfield.

Wow. Just.... WOW.

"Where are the other 3 wins coming from"? In all of your ****tardery -- did you not realize we play those 3 listed teams a total of 5 times? Or are you just that dedicated to trolling? But you know basketball because you've been watching MSU play for 98324098234 yearz and Ray is a shitty floor coach!!1!1

[tcdog70]

Yeah -- it's Ray's fault that Stansbury's guys fail 3+ drug tests and are mandatorily dismissed...Also his fault that we blow out 3(or was it 4) ACLs?

Wow at this stupid agenda you are pushing. I would say you are the worst -- but unfortunately you aren't. You are one of 3 or 4 though -- so keep trying -- and maybe you can assume that role.


I don't have an agenda, I just don't agree with the Rick Ray love you and C34 expound . It's been a cluster **** since we fired Stans. Instead of looking at Ray and our team and seeing that We are a bottom feeder in a weakass SeC, Y'all continue to bash Stans. I'll quit defending the bashing of Stansbury if Coach will quit bashing Him in a thread that had nothing to do with Him.

I'm all for Ray standing on His on merits. But don't bash Stanbury to try and Make Ray look better. Coach, You calling someone a Moron is worthy of the comedy channel.

[Coach34]

Thanks what a gracious dickhead you are. There are some suck ass SEC teams--Auburn, SC and Ga. But where are the other three wins coming from? The only player that Ray has brought in , in two years that is playing is Ready who is not ready and will be be abused in SEC play.excuse me I forgot about Bloodman, who couldn't play for Delta State.

Hope we win a shitpot load of games in the SEC. If so I gladly eat some crow. But having seen plenty of MSU Coaches( yes even Ron Greene, who you had never heard of) Rick Ray rates up there with Jim Hatfield.

Let it play out

[tcdog70]

Wow. Just.... WOW.

"Where are the other 3 wins coming from"? In all of your ****tardery -- did you not realize we play those 3 listed teams a total of 5 times? Or are you just that dedicated to trolling? But you know basketball because you've been watching MSU play for 98324098234 yearz and Ray is a shitty floor coach!!1!1


What lets see 5+ 3 equal 8. coach said we would win 8 SEC games. I never said Ray was a shitty floor coach. I said He hasn't proven to be better that Stansbury. I'm a troll, you post in every thread on two boards. What are you twelve, and what the **** makes you an expert?

I usually agree with your opinions on Football and baseball, but don't understand why you chose defend Ray and Bash Stansbury. Isn't this a message board where MSU fans discuss our Bulldogs? Why do you and your mentor have to bash posters that disagree . The season will play out and then we will see whose insight was better. It's easy to call people ****tards on your iPad , hope it makes you feel like a message board guru.

[tcdog70]

Let it play out

Agree

[engie]

I don't have an agenda, I just don't agree with the Rick Ray love you and C34 expound.
Link me to this alleged "love"? Just because I call out people for trying to judge results during a rebuild doesn't make me nor C34 "Ray lovers". It makes those already judging shortsighted idiots. You might as well argue that you are going to win the next roll on roulette -- you are LITERALLY rolling the dice in making predictions prior to giving someone a fair chance to see what they've got. Even if you "win" and Ray ends up being a bust -- you are still an idiot for making a complete judgement based on incomplete data.

All you do is bitch. And make up shit to bitch about and put down a current MSU coach while comparing him to a former coach. That's a CLEAR agenda.


It's been a cluster **** since we fired Stans. Instead of looking at Ray and our team and seeing that We are a bottom feeder in a weakass SeC, Y'all continue to bash Stans.
News flash -- it was a COMPLETE CLUSTER **** before we fired Stans. This is the stupidity that I'm talking about.


I'll quit defending the bashing of Stansbury if Coach will quit bashing Him in a thread that had nothing to do with Him.
Bullshit you will. Read the damn thread -- not that you would comprehend it if you did. Coach didn't volunteer a damn thing about Stansbury. Nor did he MENTION his ****ing name until you idiots called him out about 10 different times. Coach was 100% on topic -- until Preachermatt, Maddawg, Bobcat, and Hoopsdawg derailed the thread into the same stupid, tired argument -- as they do with practically every basketball post any of them make.

Your group comes running literally EVERY TIME something negative happens for Ray. You can't just support your team and program -- you DISAPPEAR EVERY TIME something positive happens. Yet, you never miss an opportunity to grind an ax because our last coach who had us as "the most dysfunctional team in America" finally got run out of town and left us a total cluster **** 2 years too late.

But you're taking EVERY opportunity to take potshots and further set back the program in hopes of "being right" about Stansbury -- basically sabotaging MSU and Ray's chances at success. You are literally JUST LIKE the morons that held Cohen back and made it take 2 years longer than it should have to get us back to where we should be. You may not be "one of them" -- but you are indistinguishable.


I'm all for Ray standing on His on merits. But don't bash Stanbury to try and Make Ray look better. Coach, You calling someone a Moron is worthy of the comedy channel.
But you are more than fine with bashing Ray and our program while propping up Stansbury. Makes perfect sense. No double standard at all**

[engie]

What lets see 5+ 3 equal 8. coach said we would win 8 SEC games.
No he didn't. He said "six to eight". But you have no agenda**


I never said Ray was a shitty floor coach. I said He hasn't proven to be better that Stansbury.
All you proved is that you don't know the actual game of basketball beyond looking at a box score and really shouldn't be commenting on technical "floor" aspects of the game.


I'm a troll, you post in every thread on two boards. What are you twelve, and what the **** makes you an expert?
"What are you twelve"? Classic response**

How about this -- in the first SEC basketball game -- we'll each start a thread with our own insights into what we are actually seeing happen on the floor in the game -- and hold a vote on who has the better insights and knows what the hell they are talking about. Loser agrees to not comment on basketball for the remainder of the season. Deal? This goes for the rest of you incessant Ray-bashers as well if you think you want to step up and try it.


I usually agree with your opinions on Football and baseball, but don't understand why you chose defend Ray and Bash Stansbury.
I'm not "Defending Ray and bashing Stansbury". I'm saying the same damn thing Coach is. LET IT PLAY OUT. You can't find a single damn quote from me anywhere where "I think Ray is the correct answer that's going to lead us to glory." I have simply said that you can't judge a DAMN THING about him in the results of years 1 and 2. And it's frigging stupid to even try. And blaming Ray for 100% of the shitty position he's in is ALSO pushing a damn agenda. Ray's early struggle is AT LEAST 50% Stansbury's fault. Twist it and deny it all the hell you want to.

EVERY comment you can find from me says that I judge him exactly how Stansbury was judged starting in year 3. I'm just ridiculously sick and tired of you ****tards showing up every time something negative happens for our basketball program in order to push an agenda that is HURTING MSU IN THE PROCESS.


Isn't this a message board where MSU fans discuss our Bulldogs? Why do you and your mentor have to bash posters that disagree .
Who the **** is "my mentor"? You must have missed most of football season...


The season will play out and then we will see whose insight was better. It's easy to call people ****tards on your iPad , hope it makes you feel like a message board guru.
Season 3, you mean?

Like I said -- you think you have better insights into basketball than me -- step up and prove it in the first SEC game. Should be easy enough.

[HoopsDawg]

You said we aren't improved. But you are a ****ing moron if you think we win 4 or fewer in the SEC. Why do you need a game -- if you are so sure we aren't any better than last year?

This team is going to go 7-11 or 8-10 in the SEC. Bookmark it and let me know when I'm wrong

You are wrong.

[HailState39110]

Engie you were wrong

[engie]

Yep, I was wrong.

This team got "figured out" after a couple of weeks in SEC play and never adjusted. I overestimated how well we were compensating for only having one big.

I would have been wrong on Cohen in year 2 when we won the first SEC series as well. Would have bet we won 12-14 and made a regional at that point.

[Brad Stevens]

What do you mean "we'll see." ?? We can't go 7-11 or 8-10.

[engie]

What do you mean "we'll see." ?? We can't go 7-11 or 8-10.

I was initially referring to his "4 win prediction" before deciding to simply address my own prediction. I still think we've got a chance to win 5. That's SC and one in the tourney.

[HoopsDawg]

This is the dumbest shit I've read in awhile. Well, besides every other basketball post that a handful of you make. This team beats Troy and Loyola. So, we're at 8-4 with last year's nonconference schedule.

Given your brilliant prognostication ability to see this clear lack of progression -- please tell me you are willing to bet on us winning 4 or fewer in the SEC again?

Come again?

[Dawg61]

Looks like HoopsDawg isn't banned anymore. Haha

[engie]

Hey I was wrong about how many we would win this year -- when you were flipping out while we were 3-2 in the SEC...

I'd talk as much shit as I possibly can right now if I were you -- because your life is going to be miserable if/when Ray gets it going next year.

[Quaoarsking]

It's one thing to mock a fellow MSU fan for underestimating our win total, but something doesn't seem right about mocking a fellow MSU fan for predicting more wins than we got.

We're all upset about this season. No need for the "I told you so"s...

[hacker]

Basketball threads on here are ****ing terrible right now. I hope for my sake that we are better next year so we don't have guys jerking themselves off while bending over backwards trying to point out that another fan was wrong for predicting a 7 win season. I don't even understand how some of you people consider yourselves fans.

[HoopsDawg]

Looks like HoopsDawg isn't banned anymore. Haha

1st day back. "I seen it" banned me for a month. Notice in this thread the language engie used whereas I was restrained. Other than saying he rode the shortbus, but as far as I know that was fact not opinion.

[engie]

1st day back. "I seen it" banned me for a month. Notice in this thread the language engie used whereas I was restrained. Other than saying he rode the shortbus, but as far as I know that was fact not opinion.

Lulz.

[dawgs]

Hey I was wrong about how many we would win this year -- when you were flipping out while we were 3-2 in the SEC...

I'd talk as much shit as I possibly can right now if I were you -- because your life is going to be miserable if/when Ray gets it going next year.

i'd rather us win than be right on the internet. i love msu and want us to win. pointing out that i don't think the current HC is going to get it done is not "hoping he fails/loses", it's just looking at the evidence on hand (on the court, recruiting, experience, etc.) and not seeing much hope. trust me, i'd happy be wrong if we could be in the NCAA discussion next year. it's ****ing retarded to think any msu fan would rather be right about a coach sucking than be good in a sport.

[Hot Rock]

I am beginning to hate anyone that brings up Stans.

He is gone and if Ray doesn't succeed, Rick Stansbury still isn't coming back. So, leave it be!!! Please!!!

You either support Mississippi State or you don't.

[engie]

it's ****ing retarded to think any msu fan would rather be right about a coach sucking than be good in a sport.

Certainly not talking about you specifically, but there are DEFINITELY examples of this spread throughout our fanbase. We've got an affinity to love coaches more than the school itself. Don't believe it? Ask Cohen or Ray...

[whosyourdawgy]

Yep, I was wrong.

This team got "figured out" after a couple of weeks in SEC play and never adjusted. I overestimated how well we were compensating for only having one big.

I would have been wrong on Cohen in year 2 when we won the first SEC series as well. Would have bet we won 12-14 and made a regional at that point.

Engie, us losing had less to do with only having one big and more to do with we can't throw it in the ****ing ocean. That and our defensive effort over this longest losing streak these eyes remember has been pathetic. We have given up more layups and uncontested shots and put backs it's embarrassing. That has to do with the lack of a big for sure and depth to an extent but also effort. The guys don't give up but those easy buckets are signs of lack of focus and effort. It's almost over. We have 2 more games left, then we will see if there will be any transfers and actually get some freshmen in for next year that will hopefully be able to see the court for us. And hopefully with more experience and more depth comes more wins.

[engie]

Engie, us losing had less to do with only having one big and more to do with we can't throw it in the ****ing ocean. That and our defensive effort over this longest losing streak these eyes remember has been pathetic. We have given up more layups and uncontested shots and put backs it's embarrassing. That has to do with the lack of a big for sure and depth to an extent but also effort. The guys don't give up but those easy buckets are signs of lack of focus and effort. It's almost over. We have 2 more games left, then we will see if there will be any transfers and actually get some freshmen in for next year that will hopefully be able to see the court for us. And hopefully with more experience and more depth comes more wins.

Agreed on all this.

It's really easy to get disheartened in the situation this team is in right now. It certainly happened in year 2 under Cohen.

I'm just giving Ray a clean slate for next year. And he will get no free pass from me from the very first tip of next season. At that point, it is ALL on him...

[I seen it dawg]

1st day back. "I seen it" banned me for a month. Notice in this thread the language engie used whereas I was restrained. Other than saying he rode the shortbus, but as far as I know that was fact not opinion.

I hit the wrong button. Surely I meant more time.

[MarketingBully01]

Agreed on all this.

It's really easy to get disheartened in the situation this team is in right now. It certainly happened in year 2 under Cohen.

I'm just giving Ray a clean slate for next year. And he will get no free pass from me from the very first tip of next season. At that point, it is ALL on him...

I hope you are right Engie. I hope you are right. I just want to get back to where we consistently win 20 games again and are not setting losing streak records. These two years have been heck for an MSU basketball fan and we haven't seen this type of futility since most of the posters have been born. Personally, I hope you and Coach are able to say I told you so. I am so tired of losing in the one sport I love the most.

[engie]

I hope you are right Engie. I hope you are right. I just want to get back to where we consistently win 20 games again and are not setting losing streak records. These two years have been heck for an MSU basketball fan and we haven't seen this type of futility since most of the posters have been born. Personally, I hope you and Coach are able to say I told you so. I am so tired of losing in the one sport I love the most.

If we aren't knocking on the door to the 20 win plateau and an NIT berth next year -- coach and I will be the loudest ones beating the drum that we need to go in another direction. It's simply premature at this point.

Next year is and should be a clean slate. If he botches it like he has down the stretch in both of these first 2 years -- I'll be ready to go another direction just like everyone else.

[TheDogFather]

If we aren't knocking on the door to the 20 win plateau and an NIT berth next year -- coach and I will be the loudest ones beating the drum that we need to go in another direction. It's simply premature at this point.

Next year is and should be a clean slate. If he botches it like he has down the stretch in both of these first 2 years -- I'll be ready to go another direction just like everyone else.

If 20 wins and NIT is acceptable for Rick Ray (just sniffing - take this to mean 18 wins and no postseason) then why in the hell was it not acceptable for Stansbury?

[NewTweederEndzoneDance]

If 20 wins and NIT is acceptable for Rick Ray (just sniffing - take this to mean 18 wins and no postseason) then why in the hell was it not acceptable for Stansbury?

15 years, or however long Stans was the coach, with teams that are exclusively your players is vastly different than year 3 of a rebuild. It's really not a hard concept to grasp.

[MadDawg]

If 20 wins and NIT is acceptable for Rick Ray (just sniffing - take this to mean 18 wins and no postseason) then why in the hell was it not acceptable for Stansbury?


Because we have a different standard now. "Competing for an NIT birth" is now the standard of a good team.

[Coach34]

15 years, or however long Stans was the coach, with teams that are exclusively your players is vastly different than year 3 of a rebuild. It's really not a hard concept to grasp.

Apparently it is

[dickiedawg]

No one is going to accept "competing for an NIT birth (sic)" as a goal for long. But right now, that would show marked improvement, like moving up from the 9th circle of hell all the way up to Limbo.

[engie]

Because we have a different standard now. "Competing for an NIT birth" is now the standard of a good team.

No it isn't. It's a standard for marked improvement showing a team is going in the right direction and earning the coach year 4 to get us back to where we feel we should be.

If we aren't in the NIT next year -- I'm out.
If we aren't in the NCAA's in year 4 -- I'm out.

It's the simplest thing in the world to understand if you aren't so busy forming conspiracy theories about double standards that don't actually exist.

[dawgs]

If 20 wins and NIT is acceptable for Rick Ray (just sniffing - take this to mean 18 wins and no postseason) then why in the hell was it not acceptable for Stansbury?

i'm definitely not really on the ray-train and have been very vocal about my position opposite engie/C34, but this is a dumb argument to even begin to try making.

[RougeDawg]

Over 400 in DI so far this year

Ex-****ing-actly my point when blaming ray for the roster issues. Transfers are flying around out there like ones at a strip club, yet Ray can't find a single ****ing one? This is who Strick thought would turn us around?

I'm assuming Applewhite sees the writing on the wall for his career of he stays in Starkville and he'd rather win some games against more than just the handicap teams

[TheDogFather]

Apparently it is

Because we all know a good coach will improve every year regardless of tenure. Apparently.

Can't wait til Ray has been here 10 years. We should have a couple NCAAs by then.

[smootness]

Because we all know a good coach will improve every year regardless of tenure. Apparently.

This is not the point. No one is saying that Stans had to go because he didn't keep improving every year. It's that after 15 years, you pretty much know what you have. Sure, you can slip up here and there...it happens. But we weren't slipping up anymore; we just were what we were - which was a decent program who had no real hopes of anything greater.


Can't wait til Ray has been here 10 years. We should have a couple NCAAs by then.

What did Stans have, 2 in his last 7? Which is exactly the point you're trying to argue against. Stans had been here 14 years and only went to 2 NCAA Tournaments in his last 7, and one of those we snuck in after winning the SEC Tournament; we weren't really even a tournament team that year.

So for the last half of his tenure, Stans had one true Tournament team. Yet you're claiming that was too much success to fire him while blasting Ray for guessing he'll have similar success.

[TheRef]

Whose bright idea was it to revive this thread?

[RougeDawg]

So apparently Applewhite wanted a bigger role in the offense. Not sure what you say about that except good luck finding it.

You sure he didn't say "an offense" instead of "the offense"? That seems much more plausible.

[State82]

Whose bright idea was it to revive this thread?

I was pretty much wondering the same thing.

[I seen it dawg]

Whose bright idea was it to revive this thread?

Hoopsdawg has been waiting a month to do it.

[HoopsDawg]

Hoopsdawg has been waiting a month to do it.

I'm just doing what I was told. Engie told me to bump it and tell him he was wrong. And he was.