Was 2009 our best recruiting class ever?

[Where'sWaldo]

I just went back and looked at our classes dating back to 2009 and that class was amazing. I don't know that we can ever produce a class like this again...

Chad Bumphis
Fletcher Cox
Josh Boyd
Tyler Russell
Chris Smith
Cam Lawrence
Ladarious Perkins
Deontae Skinner
Nickoe Whitley
Gabe Jackson
Baker Swedenburg
Pernell Mcphee
Chris White
Johnthon Banks
Leon Berry
Darius Slay

[HoopsDawg]

It's the standard for what we should try and achieve. It was a strong year in MS and we dominated the state. We also signed 5 or 6 quality Jucos. Croom did a heck of job with that class.

[Bass Chaser]

Not if you're a star watcher. Our average player rank according to 247 was 83.75. 2013 was 85.97 so according to average player rank last year is the best year under Mullen. Class size makes a big difference in class rank. However, if you look at the production, development, and where they are today it's hard to argue.

[HoopsDawg]

Not if you're a star watcher. Our average player rank according to 247 was 83.75. 2013 was 85.97 so according to average player rank last year is the best year under Mullen. Class size makes a big difference in class rank. However, if you look at the production, development, and where they are today it's hard to argue.

Paul has become much more generous with his star rankings since 2009. The days of an MSU commit being a 2 star are all but extinct on his site.

[engie]

It's the standard for what we should try and achieve. It was a strong year in MS and we dominated the state. We also signed 5 or 6 quality Jucos. Croom did a heck of job with that class.

This is such a crock of shit.

13 of 27 members of that class committed to Mullen in the final 2 months.

[engie]

Paul has become much more generous with his star rankings since 2009. The days of an MSU commit being a 2 star are all but extinct on his site.

Since 24/7 existed in 2009 and all...

[HoopsDawg]

Since 24/7 existed in 2009 and all...

Well there you go. You just proved the guys post inaccurate.

[cubswillwinitonedaydawg]

It's the standard for what we should try and achieve. It was a strong year in MS and we dominated the state. We also signed 5 or 6 quality Jucos. Croom did a heck of job with that class.

Agreed, but I don't think some of those would have panned out as well under Croom as they did under Mullen. Bumphis and probably a couple others may have never signed if Mullen hadn't been hired.

Either way, in that class, looks like you got 8 guys that made at least an NFL practice roster, 1 that will be a 1st-2nd round pick (Jackson), and a few others that may get a shot at a late round pick or free-agent deal (Skinner, Russell, Perkins, Whitley). Impressive.

[HoopsDawg]

Agreed, but I don't think some of those would have panned out as well under Croom as they did under Mullen.

No argument there.

[HancockCountyDog]

This is such a crock of shit.

13 of 27 members of that class committed to Mullen in the final 2 months.

Yeah, but those 13 were:

Brandon Heavens
Mardrecas Hood
Ricco Sanders
BIlly Hamilton
Darius Slay
Ladarius Perkins
Dennis Thames
Chad Bumphis
Pernell McPhee (committed to Croom in July)
Johnathan McKenzie
Leon Berry
Sean Brauchle
Maurice Langston

Really, just Perkins, Bumphis, getting McPhee to recommit and placing Slay. Not bad in a coach's first recruiting class, but 9 of those 13 had little to absolutely no impact at MSU.

Look, Croom was a disaster, no one can argue that point, but the best thing he did while at MSU was beating Bama in Starkville (one of my favorite memories) and leaving Mullen the following 14 recruits:

Heath Hutchins
Montrell Conner
Gabe Jackson
Chris White
William Shumpert
Deontae Skinner
Josh Boyd
Nickoe Whitley
FLetcher Cox
Johnthan Banks
Chris SMith
Tyler Russell
Cameron Lawrence
Sam Watts

Eight of those 14 commits have played or will play in the NFL and that is not counting Russell who I think fits a pro style offense way, way better than what we run.

At the end of the day, who gives a shit, this was like 5 years ago.

[HoopsDawg]

Damn, Mullen watered down the class. He got Perkins and that's it. People like to give him credit for Bumphis, but Bumphis was going to MSU. He wanted to stay close to home and play with Tyler Russell.

[cubswillwinitonedaydawg]

Forgot about Montrell Conner. Remembered him leaving and never did hear anything else. Here's what ESPN had on a Signing Day Booms and Busts:

Biggest disappointment: RB Montrell Conner (Monroe, La.)

Conner had offers from USC, Oklahoma, Georgia and Tennessee and was ranked as the No. 7 running back prospect in the country by ESPN. He redshirted his first season and left the program in August of that next year. He attended junior college in 2010 and then signed with Troy.

I didn't realized his offer list was that impressive. He played at Co-Lin and I don't think he ever played a down at Troy.

[dawg27]

u right on that mullen does not get enough props for what he did to keep that class going mullen did good and has done well in every class on finding good platers

[engie]

Yeah, but those 13 were:

Brandon Heavens
Mardrecas Hood
Ricco Sanders
BIlly Hamilton
Darius Slay
Ladarius Perkins
Dennis Thames
Chad Bumphis
Pernell McPhee (committed to Croom in July)
Johnathan McKenzie
Leon Berry
Sean Brauchle
Maurice Langston

Really, just Perkins, Bumphis, getting McPhee to recommit and placing Slay. Not bad in a coach's first recruiting class, but 9 of those 13 had little to absolutely no impact at MSU.

Look, Croom was a disaster, no one can argue that point, but the best thing he did while at MSU was beating Bama in Starkville (one of my favorite memories) and leaving Mullen the following 14 recruits:

Heath Hutchins
Montrell Conner
Gabe Jackson
Chris White
William Shumpert
Deontae Skinner
Josh Boyd
Nickoe Whitley
FLetcher Cox
Johnthan Banks
Chris SMith
Tyler Russell
Cameron Lawrence
Sam Watts

Eight of those 14 commits have played or will play in the NFL and that is not counting Russell who I think fits a pro style offense way, way better than what we run.

Could you possibly attempt to skew any harder to try to make what point?

It's ****ing stupid to give Croom full credit for a class that half of the total number -- and 7-8 MAJOR contributors(contrary to your initial bullshit analysis) -- committed to Mullen. That was my damn point. Skew away.

[engie]

Damn, Mullen watered down the class. He got Perkins and that's it. People like to give him credit for Bumphis, but Bumphis was going to MSU. He wanted to stay close to home and play with Tyler Russell.

Good thing Darius Slay and Pernell McPhee don't count.

Keep a-spinning.

[bulldawg28]

Damn, Mullen watered down the class. He got Perkins and that's it. People like to give him credit for Bumphis, but Bumphis was going to MSU. He wanted to stay close to home and play with Tyler Russell.


BS. Bumphis wasn't going anywhere near Starkville before Mullen came.

[HoopsDawg]

Good thing Darius Slay and Pernell McPhee don't count.

Keep a-spinning.

Pernell McPhee committed to Croom. Croom did all the leg work. UGA and UF came in late and Mullen's staff held on, but Croom did almost all of the recruiting. It's always interesting to me how people go full-retard when it comes to recruiting.

[engie]

Pernell McPhee committed to Croom. Croom did all the leg work. UGA and UF came in late and Mullen's staff held on, but Croom did almost all of the recruiting. It's always interesting to me how people go full-retard when it comes to recruiting.

I'm sure those long looks in the mirror intrigue the hell out of you...

[HancockCountyDog]

Paul has become much more generous with his star rankings since 2009. The days of an MSU commit being a 2 star are all but extinct on his site.

Sites like Scout, Rivals and 247 will almost never hand out two star commits to teams that have more than a 100 subscribers. Go look at commit lists for teams with 100 subscribers - they just don't want to put up with the flack they get from the people that pay them money. Personally, I look at the times other coaches visit our commits. That tells me all I need to know.

Also, trying to discern who is the better 3 star commit is just ridiculous for a scouting service to do. That is where our staff has excelled and other staffs are getting left behind.

[Goat Holder]

Conner is like one of those Ole Miss 4 stars that they just pull out of nowhere that make no sense. You know something is 'off' with the offer list and the ranking, but you ignore it because you 'just got a 4 starzzz!!11'.

[HancockCountyDog]

Could you possibly attempt to skew any harder to try to make what point?

It's ****ing stupid to give Croom full credit for a class that half of the total number -- and 7-8 MAJOR contributors(contrary to your initial bullshit analysis) -- committed to Mullen. That was my damn point. Skew away.

Whoa... you made the point that 13 of the 27 members of that class committed to Mullen. I was pointing out those 13 commits weren't the backbone of that class - any attempt to say otherwise is just Bear level spin.

Who is giving Croom full credit for a class? Im not.

Who out of the 13 I listed were major contributors? Bumphis, McPhee, Perkins and Slay all played major roles, even if you count McPhee as a Mullen commit even though he committed to Croom, and Slay who didn't show up until 2011.

[Bass Chaser]

Well there you go. You just proved the guys post inaccurate.


Good try but the post isn't inaccurate. How else would I get that number if not from 247? The only reason that class was ranked 19th is because they signed 32 players.

[HoopsDawg]

Conner is like one of those Ole Miss 4 stars that they just pull out of nowhere that make no sense. You know something is 'off' with the offer list and the ranking, but you ignore it because you 'just got a 4 starzzz!!11'.

Yes, Conner, Templeton Hardy, James Maiden and Damien Robinson fall under that category for us. The Ole Miss list is long, but distinguished.

[EAVdog]

People need to get off the damn Croom's players BS. That is such a Bear line. Croom had put together a pretty good class but had he been retained there is no way to say that he'd have kept it all together. Sometimes I think people need a refresher of the Croom years every once in a while to remind themselves of just how pathetic we were.

Never, not once did MSU have an offense rated above 100th out of 119 teams!

[HancockCountyDog]

Damn, Mullen watered down the class. He got Perkins and that's it. People like to give him credit for Bumphis, but Bumphis was going to MSU. He wanted to stay close to home and play with Tyler Russell.

That is complete BS. Bumphis wasn't even mentioning MSU before Mullen showed up. Mullen convinced him he was going to be the next Percy Harvin.

[HoopsDawg]

Good try but the post isn't inaccurate. How else would I get that number if not from 247? The only reason that class was ranked 19th is because they signed 32 players.

B/C we didn't even have a team site on 247 in '09. Do you really think Paul would allow us to have 4 unranked players now?

[HoopsDawg]

That is complete BS. Bumphis wasn't even mentioning MSU before Mullen showed up. Mullen convinced him he was going to be the next Percy Harvin.

This post is so inaccurate, it's funny. I actually live in Tupelo and know Chad. I agree with your earlier post though.

[Bass Chaser]

Whether we had a team site or not the ranking and ratings are still there. The 2009 class was ranked 19th so I guess that can't be right either.

[HancockCountyDog]

This post is so inaccurate, it's funny. I actually live in Tupelo and know Chad. I agree with your earlier post though.

I love when posters use the "Im friends with this recruit, so I actually know" card.

Well, Im best friends with Chad - and he told me what I put in my post. So take that.

[Coach34]

This post is so inaccurate, it's funny. I actually live in Tupelo and know Chad. I agree with your earlier post though.

Bumphis told numerous people and was even quoted in the paper as saying he wouldnt have gone to State had Croom been retained

[Goat Holder]

At least those other 3 are from MS and understandable why we would get them. Conner is the out-of-state guy that to me, compares to all the GA, FL or LA kids that Ole Miss seemingly takes that have a long but questionable offer list.


The Ole Miss list is long, but distinguished.

And so is my.......Top Gun n shit.

[HancockCountyDog]

Bumphis told numerous people and was even quoted in the paper as saying he wouldnt have gone to State had Croom been retained

Yeah but this guy is from Tupelo, so he really knows the da truth. Screw what Chad actually said - he knows.

[thedawg]

Montrell Conner had all those major offers as a line backer... We were the only major school to offer him as a running back... In hindsight he would have probably been better at linebacker

[Political Hack]

Dan Mullen is the head coach that signed every single one of those players. Period. End of story.

Croom recruited a lot of them, but he didn't sign a single one of them. They all signed to play for Dan Mullen. Byrne desires as much, if not more, credit than Croom for that class IMO.

[hacker]

Does HoopsDawg go to Bumphis' gym and is his spotter sometimes?**

[HoopsDawg]

Bumphis told numerous people and was even quoted in the paper as saying he wouldnt have gone to State had Croom been retained

No he didn't. He said he signed with MSU b/c of Mullen. Of course he's going to say that. Croom recruited those guys for 18 months. Mullen recruited them for 3 weeks. Mullen didn't know a single commit on our list except for Bumphis. But if you guys want to give Mullen credit for that class, go to town.

Back to the original post, yes that class was the benchmark for MSU.

[hacker]

Yes, I give Mullen credit for the class because they ****ing signed the sheet of paper when he, not Croom, was the head coach. It doesn't matter who previously talked to them in their lives.

[engie]

Yes, I give Mullen credit for the class because they ****ing signed the sheet of paper when he, not Croom, was the head coach. It doesn't matter who previously talked to them in their lives.

Don't you know -- Houston Nutt gets credit for our 2012 class -- because had he not sucked and stopped recruiting altogether, those kids wouldn't have come to MSU**

[HoopsDawg]

Yes, I give Mullen credit for the class because they ****ing signed the sheet of paper when he, not Croom, was the head coach. It doesn't matter who previously talked to them in their lives.

hahaha, sure thing bud.

[engie]

hahaha, sure thing bud.

In 5 years as coach, how many "Croom players" did Sylvester put into the NFL?

[HoopsDawg]

In 5 years as coach, how many "Croom players" did Sylvester put into the NFL?

?????????????????????????????????????? Makes no sense. And a totally different topic.

Let it go bud.

[HancockCountyDog]

Don't you know -- Houston Nutt gets credit for our 2012 class -- because had he not sucked and stopped recruiting altogether, those kids wouldn't have come to MSU**

I would think he would get some type of recognition for the players that were committed to Nutt when he left when freezus took over. Looks like it was 7 players, with Mathers, Walton, Hilton and Gross being the only real contributors at this point and I doubt any of those guys get drafted.

Im not sure any of those guys except for Mathers had any other options - Gross may had, but he was signing with the bears if they had hired Carrottop.

Normally when teams tank like the bears did in 2010 and 2011, this is what happens with the incoming coach - you get handed a pile of shit for a recruiting class.

For MSU in 2009, it was an odd situation, most of the studs committed back when we were riding high from the 2007 season and Croom was SEC coach of the year. Im not sure it gets remembered, but I thought we had a chance to completely dominate MS recruiting that year. We had a personable African American coach that ESPN and the media loved, and I figured we would win 8 games regardless. Then the shooting happens, we lose our starting All SEC LT and that was that. We learned that Croom really couldn't coach and we fired him one year removed from SEC coach of the year. That rarely happens, then again scoring 2 points in a game rarely happens as well.

So when Mullen showed up he was handed a recruiting class that wasn't your normal transition type class - hell look at 2004 when Sherrill left - He left Croom Roland Terry and Jeffrey Farr. He might as well of shit on the 50 yard line on his way out. That is the only two commits Croom inherited. The rest of the 2004 recruiting class committed after he got here.

[engie]

?????????????????????????????????????? Makes no sense. And a totally different topic.

Let it go bud.
You post stupidity giving Croom credit for some of Mullen's accomplishments. So, let us give him credit for his own accomplishments. Do you not see how that is interconnected?

But I can TOTALLY understand why you wouldn't want to answer that question -- because it shoots your agenda to shit.

[HoopsDawg]

You post stupidity giving Croom credit for some of Mullen's accomplishments. So, let us give him credit for his own accomplishments. Do you not see how that is interconnected?

But I can TOTALLY understand why you wouldn't want to answer that question -- because it shoots your agenda to shit.

What is it with message board psycho's and "agenda"? I have no agenda, lol. Croom is where he belongs and that's coaching RB's with the Titans. This thread isn't about Croom. It's about the 2009 class and Croom deserves 90% of the credit for that class. You and some others have a hard time accepting that. That's a YOU problem.

[HancockCountyDog]

You post stupidity giving Croom credit for some of Mullen's accomplishments. So, let us give him credit for his own accomplishments. Do you not see how that is interconnected?

But I can TOTALLY understand why you wouldn't want to answer that question -- because it shoots your agenda to shit.

What are we basing this off, players that were drafted from Croom's recruiting classes or players that were drafted while Croom was the coach. Personally, I don't think Croom should get credit for Jerious getting drafted, but that is just me, maybe he should.

Since Croom was only here 5 seasons, he only had two classes cycle through - the 2004 and 2005 signing classes. So we judge it on just those classes?

Mullen did a great job keeping that class together. Croom did a great job assembling the class. Can't it just be that? Can't both guys get credit. Why does it have to be one or the other. As usual the truth is probably somewhere in the middle.

This also shows how much recruiting has changed in the last 10 years. In 2004 when Croom took over, he was handed two commits from shitty players. In 2009, Mullen was handed a solid 14 commits. If Mullen left for another school - the next coach would probably be handed 18-20 commits that would all probably stick if the new coach wanted them too.

Look at Muschamp at Florida - he took over in 2010 - He only committed 5 guys after coming on board. The best coach so far that I have seen come in and kick ass in his first recruiting class was Gus at AU, and I highly doubt he did that without a lot of help from the AU alumni.

[engie]

What are we basing this off, players that were drafted from Croom's recruiting classes or players that were drafted while Croom was the coach. Personally, I don't think Croom should get credit for Jerious getting drafted, but that is just me, maybe he should.
In 5 years, Croom had zero of his own recruits drafted. Zero. That's my point. How many of those guys actually get there on Croom-coached teams?


Since Croom was only here 5 seasons, he only had two classes cycle through - the 2004 and 2005 signing classes. So we judge it on just those classes?
Plus 4 JUCO classes that should have been putting a significant percentage into the NFL.


Mullen did a great job keeping that class together. Croom did a great job assembling the class. Can't it just be that? Can't both guys get credit. Why does it have to be one or the other. As usual the truth is probably somewhere in the middle.
Is that not what my entire argument has been in favor of? I'm not the one that gave Croom full credit for the class and tried to downplay Mullen's role. I stated -- and stand by -- the fact that they both deserve roughly equal credit for the class on paper -- while Mullen gets ONE HUNDRED PERCENT credit for their collegiate production and NFL advancement.


This also shows how much recruiting has changed in the last 10 years. In 2004 when Croom took over, he was handed two commits from shitty players. In 2009, Mullen was handed a solid 14 commits. If Mullen left for another school - the next coach would probably be handed 18-20 commits that would all probably stick if the new coach wanted them too.
Not really -- it just shows the extent to which Jackie TOTALLY quit the day that he quit. Nevermind that Croom didn't think it necessary to immediately show up and get to recruiting when he was hired -- instead choosing to stay with his NFL team through the end of the season. He also left in-home and official visits on the shelf his first couple of years.


Look at Muschamp at Florida - he took over in 2010 - He only committed 5 guys after coming on board. The best coach so far that I have seen come in and kick ass in his first recruiting class was Gus at AU, and I highly doubt he did that without a lot of help from the AU alumni.
Which makes Mullen adding 3 likely NFL drafted players in 2 months all the more impressive.

[engie]

What is it with message board psycho's and "agenda"? I have no agenda, lol. Croom is where he belongs and that's coaching RB's with the Titans. This thread isn't about Croom. It's about the 2009 class and Croom deserves 90% of the credit for that class. You and some others have a hard time accepting that. That's a YOU problem.

You have no agenda -- other than bitching about literally everything involving MSU -- while being MORE than happy to skew the shit out of things in order to diminish accomplishments of current MSU coaches.

Your 90% shit just shows what a moron that you are. And that's a YOU problem.

[Goat Holder]

He sure is damn near as insufferable at the Deshea stalker pervert, that much is certain.

[HancockCountyDog]

In 5 years, Croom had zero of his own recruits drafted. Zero. That's my point..

Wait, so you are just talking about the 2004 and 2005 classes, right? Because, Antonio Johnson was drafted from 2005 class, Dixon was drafted and part of the 2006 class, KJ and Sherrod from 2007 class?

I mean, you are right, but talk about an unfair grading scale if you have to count that 2004 class - like I said, Sherrill left him two players Farr and Roland Terry. Now, 2005 class had some solid players - Pegeus, Chaney, Antonio, Fitzhugh - three of whom played in NFL, but I think his inability to understand recruiting is what cost him his job. He didn't really get that you had to start recruiting earlier and earlier. By 2007 he figured it out, but his failures in the 2005 and 2006 came back to bite him in the ass by the 2008 season.

[SPMT]

Bumphis told numerous people and was even quoted in the paper as saying he wouldnt have gone to State had Croom been retained

Truth

No way in hell he comes to play in the croom coast offense.

[thf24]

Forgot about Montrell Conner. Remembered him leaving and never did hear anything else. Here's what ESPN had on a Signing Day Booms and Busts:

Biggest disappointment: RB Montrell Conner (Monroe, La.)

Conner had offers from USC, Oklahoma, Georgia and Tennessee and was ranked as the No. 7 running back prospect in the country by ESPN. He redshirted his first season and left the program in August of that next year. He attended junior college in 2010 and then signed with Troy.

I didn't realized his offer list was that impressive. He played at Co-Lin and I don't think he ever played a down at Troy.

I'm still disappointed to this day that he couldn't get past his issues, whatever they were. I remember watching him in the 2010 spring game and thinking that he'd be special for us.

[Todd4State]

People forget that Croom screwed up the recruitment of Chris Garrett (yeah, I know) and Pat Patterson. Both ended up ultimately being busts, but Garrett might have been a serviceable back-up QB and Croom messing that up would be like Ole Miss screwing up the recruitment of Ryan Buchanan. Patterson would have fit our offense better and probably would have been a decent H-back for us.


But that was a good class other than the fact that we only had two o-linemen in it, and that hurt us down the road. Especially since Gabe was the only one that panned out.

[Ronny]

I just went back and looked at our classes dating back to 2009 and that class was amazing. I don't know that we can ever produce a class like this again...

Chad Bumphis
Fletcher Cox
Josh Boyd
Tyler Russell
Chris Smith
Cam Lawrence
Ladarious Perkins
Deontae Skinner
Nickoe Whitley
Gabe Jackson
Baker Swedenburg
Pernell Mcphee
Chris White
Johnthon Banks
Leon Berry
Darius Slay

...notable exceptions, all these players would disappear in big games.

I would say this is list of underachievers.