Dan Mullen recruiting

[bully99]

Todd Jordan who was filling in on the Dick and Wyatt show today (Thursday) said Dan Mullen recruiting has not been very good and said he needs to pick it up. Didn't really sense a negative or nasty tone toward Mullen or State by Jordan, but you could tell he was not pleased with recruiting. What do think about former players openly criticizing where they played.

[cheewgumm]

The more pressure on him to recruit well, the better. We can pretend that stars don't matter and all but that will eventually catch up to you. He does need to
Improve his recruiting.

[thejunction1977]

First and foremost, CDM is honest. He will never compete with Freese there. Freese will do anything to recruit. CDM cares about his players. We don't have these attention hogs like kimchee. Unfortunately, with his honesty he is going to miss out on some recruits. There is no question he's going to outcaoch Freese while he's there. (I fully expect Freese to implode)

No, when it comes to beating Bama and LSU, i agree with Todd that we need more stars. CDM is working hard thought. We have a REAL good shot a good flip right now.

[EnterpriseDawg]

This years class seems pretty mediocre. Defintely behind last years class. Finishing last in your conference is never good.
The 2015 class seems to be out shining this years class already and looks like it could be a special class.

[Political Hack]

I fear for Todd Jordan's soul.

[AlSwearengen]

btw, what is todd jordan doing these days?

[Coach34]

I'm gonna go out in a limb and predict people won't be bitching about our talent level in 2014. Suddenly our recruiting wont be such an issue. Somebody linked the Bafoom thread not long ago about them laughing at Mullen for signing Calhoun late in the process and how he was a waste. Calhoun is a bona fide SEC player and played well this year. Bafoom wasnt laughing at him during the Egg Bowl.

Former players have earned the right to have an opinion. It doesn't matter what it is, everybody is never going to be pleased- hell, Bama even has some people mad at Saban.

[SDDawg]

It doesn't matter what it is, everybody is never going to be pleased- hell, Bama even has some people mad at Saban.

Sure, but only because Saban hates Bama fans worse than Auburn people do.

[Sidewalkdawg]

That's funny

[hells bells]

Todd Jordan who was filling in on the Dick and Wyatt show today (Thursday) said Dan Mullen recruiting has not been very good and said he needs to pick it up. Didn't really sense a negative or nasty tone toward Mullen or State by Jordan, but you could tell he was not pleased with recruiting. What do think about former players openly criticizing where they played.

Hey Todd, first I have not heard from you in years. What are you doing now? Would Mullen recruit you now in your prime or if you ever hit your prime?

[bluelightstar]

Is he wrong?

[TopDog58]

Is he wrong?

Nope. Not at all.

I understand where the "Dan develops players" crew comes from. He does. And he's been darn successful at it so far. But he's also 0-fer against the upper tier of the SEC.

Stars matter. Dan's low ranked classes have us right where we belong. Anywhere in the 9-14 range of SEC teams.

Either the star power needs to be stepped up or we damn sure better shore up the special teams and fix the dumb coaching mistakes to have a shot to compete at all with the upper third of the league.

[Eric Nies Grind Time]

Nope. Not at all.

I understand where the "Dan develops players" crew comes from. He does. And he's been darn successful at it so far. But he's also 0-fer against the upper tier of the SEC.

Stars matter. Dan's low ranked classes have us right where we belong. Anywhere in the 9-14 range of SEC teams.

Either the star power needs to be stepped up or we damn sure better shore up the special teams and fix the dumb coaching mistakes to have a shot to compete at all with the upper third of the league.

Pretty much this. If we are ever going to upset a team like LSU we are going to have to start pulling in more star power. I hope the 2015 class stays together and we add onto it. Would be a great start.

[Coach34]

Stars matter. Dan's low ranked classes have us right where we belong. Anywhere in the 9-14 range of SEC teams.
.

Thats dumb as shit. State is one of only 6 SEC schools to play in 4 straight bowls. We have failed to win at least 3 SEC games 1 time in 5 years. There is nothing 9-14 in the SEC about that.

Now we have lacked talent at the WR position. That has been Mullen's biggest problem for 5 years. We have lacked the ability to make big plays in the passing game to take some pressure off the offense- everything has to be an earned drive. I think he has finally addressed this some- but those guys were Freshmen this year and not ready to help carry the offense.

Nobody is going to say shit about us having a lack of talent in 2014.

[Bully13]

I think our lack of available schollies is playing a big roll in the rankings this year for us. If you look at the avg star ratings, we're not much different than the bears so far this year

[ShotgunDawg]

The biggest problem with our recruiting isn't the players we get, it's the momentum we lose during the offseason.

The season only last 3 months and the Egg Bowl is only 1 day, but recruiting last 12 months.

Therefore, one could argue that recruiting last longer, brings more hype, provides more hope, and makes a fanbase happier than just winning games.

The Oakland As lose every MLB offseason but always win. Same goes for the Spurs, but they are boring.

Winning is boring for some, especially when it's blue collar and lacks spice.

OM gains momentum every offseason due to recruiting, and it doesn't so much matter if it translates to wins because it gives them 12 months of happiness and hope. Whereas winning only gives you 3 months.

[messageboardsuperhero]

I think our lack of available schollies is playing a big roll in the rankings this year for us. If you look at the avg star ratings, we're not much different than the bears so far this year


Exactly.

Before Calhoun committed, our average star rating was three (it went down because Calhoun hasn't been evaluated- thus he has no stars). We are just hurt in the ratings because we will have a relatively small class, but I think the guys we do have on the commit list are quality players.

Compare that to UM's average star rating (3.29), and you're looking at fairly similar average rating between the two classes. UM just has six more commits than us- no shit, their 'crootin ranking will obviously be higher than ours.

And this brings me to one of Shotgun's points- what REALLY is the difference between two players when one of the has only 0.29 stars more than the other? Honestly, their talent levels will be very similar to each other, and the success of most of these average recruits is system fit, development, attitude, maturity, etc. Obviously your blue chips (Tunsil, C. Jones, Treadwell, etc) will do well regardless, but we're not going to sign many of those players anyway.

I still definitely think we should go after talented, big-time players- but at the same time, I'm not going to freak out and jump off a cliff if our "StAr RaNkInG!11!!!" isn't great. I recognize that stars can be good for some general indications of where a program is heading, but they are FAR from everything.

[Todd4State]

Let's talk about reality here. When Dan first arrived, we had to build a talent base and a core. We had one winning season since 2001 before Dan and we were on probation during part of that era. There's a couple of ways to do that. We could cheat our ass off- to be blunt. But doing so would probably net us a lot of prima donnas and guys with character issues OR we could recruit guys that have the size, speed, height, work ethic and intangibles but maybe they're raw and we have to develop them. That would probably lead to a couple of 6-6 type seasons with reasonable scheduling, but LONG term- it's going to work because we're going to end up with guys like Dak, Jamaal Clayborn, Bear Wilson, Jonathan Banks, Josh Robinson, McKinney, and etc.

I think there is a very good chance that we win the Liberty Bowl and then have at least 8 win seasons or better (yep- I said it) in 2014 and 2015. IF that happens, we're looking a period where we would have 3 eight win seasons and a nine win season conservatively and we'll see how the bowls shake out- but we've been to two NYD bowls and as we all know four and by the time 2015 rolls around probably 6 bowls in a row. And all the while, we're going to be putting guys in the NFL- see Sherrod, Cox, Banks, Gabe Jackson, and etc. Over time THAT is going to all lead to better recruiting. Don't believe me? Look at our 2015 class so far. That's not just because we won the Egg Bowl.

The reality is Dan's classes are typically underrated. I think Chris Jones is a great example. He just happened to be the guy that blew up-but until people realized how good he was, he would have typically been another run of the mill 3 star player that no one would have been all that crazy over. The exact same thing could have happened to Beanrdrick McKinney in 2011. Our coaches don't rely on web sites to tell them who is good and who isn't. They actually evaluate players.

The other thing that State fans have to realize and accept is we are going to have to take some diamonds in the rough to be successful. And those players are usually not 4-5 star guys, which means that they are going to drop our recruiting ranking down. We have to mix those diamonds in the rough with the blue chips that we get.

So, all that said- I don't get why anyone would be complaining about Dan's recruiting right now? Look at the 2015 class. We're getting Gerri Green, Aeries Williams, Jesse Jackson, Jamoral Graham in state and then we're getting Elijah Staley. I don't even pay attention to the stars by o-linemen- but our coaches have found a pipeline in the MAIS that has been working and we are going back to it again and again- see Sean Rawlings. During the recruiting saga of 2013, Dan was able to keep Chris Jones and Ashton Shumpert away from Ole Miss. Not to mention hitting it big on Jamaal Clayborn and Bear Wilson.

Folks- it's time to let 2011 go. And the crazy thing about that is those four guys that flipped- none of them have been more than adequate starters. Whitehead probably came out the best at Auburn, but he's average. I wouldn't trade Nikoe, Market, or Hughes for him. CJ Johnson had one good year and has been racked with injuries. Bias is playing for JSU and is arguably the most successful. Brassell is smoking pot in Canada. The fact of the matter is, Dan learned from that and we haven't had anything like that happen to us since- and it probably won't happen again under Dan.

[Archidawg]

Nailed it. Thank you, Todd.

[I seen it dawg]

I'm gonna steal from Hack here...

4. And. 1.

[Coach 57]

Todd nailed it minus my pizza reference. Lol!

[gravedigger]

And we can pretend stars are the end all be all and lose 4 of the next 5 to ole miss.

Saying recruiting is important is not the same thing as saying dan needs kids with more stars.

Fans need stars. Coaches need players that they can use.

[AROB44]

Todd Jordan was a damn punter (I know...he was a AA high school QB, but was a bust in college). What the hell does he know? I'll trust Dan over T Jordan any day.

[sbcmortgageman]

While the WR position has lacked under Mullen, special teams has been by far the biggest problem. By far.

[Political Hack]

He seen it.

We were fighting against UAB, USM, and Memphis for recruits six years ago. Since Dan arrived we've beating out OM, Tennessee, Auburn, LSU, S. Carolina, and others for recruits. Progress is evident. If you have a problem with Dan's recruiting, then make the argument that we've capped out because as far as I can see we're getting better over time under his leadership.

[BulldogBear]

I'm gonna steal from Hack here...

4. And. 1.

Yep, 4 wins beats 4 stars anytime. Todd4State, thanks for that response. It was everything I want to say but don't wanna try to type on this phone when outa town.

As for Jordan, he commented earlier in the show about the officer killed in Tupelo. He works with the man's wife and I believe he said they worked for a realtor.

[CJDAWG85]

I met Todd in one of the sky boxes during the Alcorn game. Didn't have a clue who he was. Think he said he was living in Tupelo now.

[Martianlander]

btw, what is todd jordan doing these days?

Selling real estate in Tupelo.

[Homedawg]

The biggest problem with our recruiting isn't the players we get, it's the momentum we lose during the offseason.

The season only last 3 months and the Egg Bowl is only 1 day, but recruiting last 12 months.

Therefore, one could argue that recruiting last longer, brings more hype, provides more hope, and makes a fanbase happier than just winning games.

The Oakland As lose every MLB offseason but always win. Same goes for the Spurs, but they are boring.

Winning is boring for some, especially when it's blue collar and lacks spice.

OM gains momentum every offseason due to recruiting, and it doesn't so much matter if it translates to wins because it gives them 12 months of happiness and hope. Whereas winning only gives you 3 months.

Great point.

[HoopsDawg]

You guys are funny. All he said is that recruiting needs to improve. He is right.

Forget stars. Who are you beating to sign a kid. We aren't beating many SEC programs in this 2014 class.

[bluelightstar]

How sad that people in this thread are attacking Todd Jordan for his opinion. I mean, damn, he didn't even attack Mullen; just said that recruiting needs to improve. And he's right! Offer lists are far more impressive than star ratings to me, and the simple fact of the matter is that we entirely too often get commits from kids who have the choice between MSU and CUSA.

P.S. 4-1 is irrelevant to this conversation because beating Ole Miss is a stop on the road, not the destination. Or it should be.

[dawg27]

i agree with u coach34 mullen is the only coach we have had to make 4 straight bowls,and we was one win away from making it 5 straight i think we need to give him some props and ya i agree we need better wr that has been low. 4 straight bowls he is doing something right.

[MetEdDawg]

The problem is that this kind of thing comes off as though we aren't doing good enough for where we are at right now, and there is a big difference between saying "it has to get better to get to where we want to be" and "it has to get better because what we've done so far isn't good enough for where we were at". We aren't going to close with every single recruit we want, but I think up to this point Mullen has done pretty damn good at evaluating talent, bringing it here, coaching it up to play in the SEC, getting them to buy in, then turning them into NFL caliber guys or quality SEC players.

We now have 100% Mullen recruiting and depth, and if you can't see a big difference in what we've got now, you are crazy. Does recruiting need to get better? If we want to get into the upper echelon of the SEC (which I know we all do), then yes. But has it been sub par or bad or below average in terms of what we've put out on the field? Absolutely not. This whole thing is a process that takes time and if you look at that 2015 class, you can tell that we've done this the right way. We've built the foundation slowly, we've rebranded, we've learned how to recruit better, and we've done the things necessary to make ourselves competitive with the rest of the schools.

We aren't going to have 20 kids banging on our door for the 2014 class because they absolutely have to be at MSU. That stuff takes time and over the past few years we've done what we've needed to do to get to that point. Now we have to let it soak in and take effect and you can see that with the 2015 class, it has done just that.

[Goat Holder]

Nobody is attacking Todd Jordan. People are attacking his negative viewpoint when there really isn't much to be negative about right now. Our talent level is about as high as it's ever been, and more consistent across the board. I guess you could say we had better talent in 99/00, but we were missing key pieces, namely the QB, back in those days. We're missing the K now, however, but I still think the talent is on par.

Jordan's opinion is, well.....stupid.

[Coach34]

Bottom line is that you can always recruit better- no matter who you are. But this is bitching just to bitch. If you want him to recruit better- then look at 2015 so far and stfu.

We have an outstanding team getting ready for a bowl game and the 2014 season.
The 2015 class is off to an outstanding start.

This is a time State fans should be happy with our program. 2013 is going to end being a pretty good rebuilding year

[dawgs]

Thats dumb as shit. State is one of only 6 SEC schools to play in 4 straight bowls. We have failed to win at least 3 SEC games 1 time in 5 years. There is nothing 9-14 in the SEC about that.

Now we have lacked talent at the WR position. That has been Mullen's biggest problem for 5 years. We have lacked the ability to make big plays in the passing game to take some pressure off the offense- everything has to be an earned drive. I think he has finally addressed this some- but those guys were Freshmen this year and not ready to help carry the offense.

Nobody is going to say shit about us having a lack of talent in 2014.

1 of the sec teams not to go to a bowl in 4 straight years is auburn. but they have 1 ring and are playing for another in a less than 2 weeks. so that's at least 1 of the other 8 programs that is clearly ahead of us. florida also won 11 games last year and went to a BCS bowl and won 13 games in 2009, but lost the sec cg to bama. and you have mizzou that has won 10+ games twice in the last 4 years, but went 5-7 last year. so i think using the 4 straight bowls argument is an argument just asking to be ripped apart. it's not something we shouldn't be proud of, but it's not a point we should site as a reason we are among the top half of the conference or something when that's at least 3 of the other 8 programs that have missed a bowl in the last 4 years that could easily be argues as being in better shape or having better success that us over the past 4 years. the lows might have been lower, but the highs were way way higher. we have consistently been in that 7-11 range in the conference every year except 2010.

[TopDog58]

Thats dumb as shit. State is one of only 6 SEC schools to play in 4 straight bowls. We have failed to win at least 3 SEC games 1 time in 5 years. There is nothing 9-14 in the SEC about that. Now we have lacked talent at the WR position. That has been Mullen's biggest problem for 5 years. We have lacked the ability to make big plays in the passing game to take some pressure off the offense- everything has to be an earned drive. I think he has finally addressed this some- but those guys were Freshmen this year and not ready to help carry the offense.

Nobody is going to say shit about us having a lack of talent in 2014.

Not dumb at all. The bowl streak is great, and it has us headed in the right direction. But it doesn't propel us to the top, much less even the middle of the SEC at this point. Maybe I was off by saying 9 to 14, because we haven't been close to dead last in the SEC, but we are still closer to the 9-11 range at this point than we are to the top 6.

We are still behind 4 programs in the SEC West. We aren't ahead of Georgia. Florida was in a BCS bowl just last year. Mizzou just played for an SEC championship. South Carolina is a perennial 10 win + team. Vandy is competing for their 2nd straight 9 win season. Granted, we don't play many of these teams on a year to year basis, but until we start taking care of business against any of these teams not named Ole Miss, Arkansas, or Kentucky, we aren't going to get any respect from any talking head whether it is in regards to the recruiting trail or as it pertains to our status in the SEC.

[bluelightstar]

The bowl streak is nice, but did anybody feel like Kentucky was a program worth a shit when they went to five straight bowl games a few years back? I'm willing to bet no, meaning that it takes more than that to elevate your program. It takes at least an occasional win against a good team to really garner any respect.

[Goat Holder]

If we haven't done this by next year, then you can bitch. But it's premature to do it now.

[Dawgtini]

We are still behind 4 programs in the SEC West. We aren't ahead of Georgia. Florida was in a BCS bowl just last year. Mizzou just played for an SEC championship. South Carolina is a perennial 10 win + team. Vandy is competing for their 2nd straight 9 win season. Granted, we don't play many of these teams on a year to year basis, but until we start taking care of business against any of these teams not named Ole Miss, Arkansas, or Kentucky, we aren't going to get any respect from any talking head whether it is in regards to the recruiting trail or as it pertains to our status in the SEC.
They have been the last three years. The years prior to that they were, well, they were Mississippi State. We are on the same path they've been on, except we are slightly ahead of where they were at year 5. Relax. It will happen. These last two overtime victories and the way we came back and played at TAMU have me believing this team has learned HOW to win.

[Coach34]

1 of the sec teams not to go to a bowl in 4 straight years is auburn. but they have 1 ring and are playing for another in a less than 2 weeks. so that's at least 1 of the other 8 programs that is clearly ahead of us. florida also won 11 games last year and went to a BCS bowl and won 13 games in 2009, but lost the sec cg to bama. and you have mizzou that has won 10+ games twice in the last 4 years, but went 5-7 last year. so i think using the 4 straight bowls argument is an argument just asking to be ripped apart. it's not something we shouldn't be proud of, but it's not a point we should site as a reason we are among the top half of the conference or something when that's at least 3 of the other 8 programs that have missed a bowl in the last 4 years that could easily be argues as being in better shape or having better success that us over the past 4 years. the lows might have been lower, but the highs were way way higher. we have consistently been in that 7-11 range in the conference every year except 2010.

We one of the worst programs in the SEC historically. That doesnt change overnight. If it's one thing we have been consistent in- it's losing.

Now Mullen has come in and elevated the talent level on the team and built depth. We are now being consistent in getting to bowl games. 2013 was a rebuilding year. We only had 12 starters returning in 2013- and two of them got hurt in the 1st half of the 1st game. That was one of the lower numbers of starters returning in the SEC for 2013. We still managed to win 3 SEC games, beat our rival who had 20 starters returning, and go bowling.

Now after rebuilding, we have 17-18 starters returning for 2014 and much higher expectations.

You need consistency in a program like ours, Kentucky, OM, etc. We arent going to recruit the way the Bama's and LSU's do.

When was Ole Miss at it's best in the last 40 years? When Cut made them consistent. But they grew tired of that and brought in Orgeron.
When was Kentucky at it's best? When they went to 5 straight bowl games and beat #1 LSU in 2007. That wasnt good enough and they forced retirement to allow his assistant to elevate their program. And that ended up like Orgeron at OM.

The grass is always greener.

Freezus is losing his two best WR's yardage-wise, one of his top RB's, and 5 of his top 10 guys on the OL. They are about to be right back where they were in 2013. 7 wins or so.

Auburn returned 20 starters and have been recruiting lights out for a number of years. And they are well-coached. Thats why they were able to do what they have done this year.

[Bully Dee Williams]

The bowl streak is nice, but did anybody feel like Kentucky was a program worth a shit when they went to five straight bowl games a few years back? I'm willing to bet no, meaning that it takes more than that to elevate your program. It takes at least an occasional win against a good team to really garner any respect.

Some differences between our streak and that of Kentucky...

Kentucky was just happy to be bowling in the moment. Their program did almost nothing to build on that momentum. In the past four years, we have parlayed our success into building great new facilities and expanding our stadium in a pretty amazing way.

We have also shown steady progress in the talent we are bringing into the program. It's hard to deny that our depth and overall talent has improved over the past few years. Kentucky rode Rich Brooks' and one core group of players' coattails for that period of time. They didnt bring in a lot of additional talent after that time. I think we are starting to prove that isn't the case with our program, as we have been able to survive quite well after losing key players every year.

[Todd4State]

Bowls = being a good sustainable program. The fact that we have a longer current bowl streak and Florida and Auburn doesn't mean "it's not a big deal". Actually, it's the opposite- it means that it's more difficult to sustain success than some people may think.

And as far as Kentucky- I don't think they are an upper echelon SEC program, but during their bowl streak, it without a doubt elevated their program in my mind. The reason they don't have respect now is because they aren't good right now.

[Coach34]

Bowls = being a good sustainable program. The fact that we have a longer current bowl streak and Florida and Auburn doesn't mean "it's not a big deal". Actually, it's the opposite- it means that it's more difficult to sustain success than some people may think.

This all day. Not sure why people dont understand this.

[Goat Holder]

Keep preachin' it. Hopefully it will soon register with these idiots.

[TheRef]

This all day. Not sure why people dont understand this.

But...but..but...there are way more bowls now!!1!111!!!!

In all seriousness, I think we need to be riding the 4 straight bowls to the bank. Consistency is something that most kids love to see in a program. If we can show that we are consistently going to bowls and getting kids in the national spotlight.

[Goat Holder]

Yep, the reason Kentucky fell off is because one, they didn't capitalize on Brooks' success (in facilities and marketing), and two, Joker wasn't that great of a manager.

[Goat Holder]

I agree but trust me, from experience, there are people out there (like Topdog58) that just CAN NOT get it. They'd rather us play harder schedules and shit. They have no clue why MSU would choose not to be a martyr.

[Pollodawg]

UK also didn't parlay their bowl run into a multimillion dollar facilities upgrade.

[blacklistedbully]

Damn Todd, that was great!

[Todd4State]

We one of the worst programs in the SEC historically. That doesnt change overnight. If it's one thing we have been consistent in- it's losing.

Now Mullen has come in and elevated the talent level on the team and built depth. We are now being consistent in getting to bowl games. 2013 was a rebuilding year. We only had 12 starters returning in 2013- and two of them got hurt in the 1st half of the 1st game. That was one of the lower numbers of starters returning in the SEC for 2013. We still managed to win 3 SEC games, beat our rival who had 20 starters returning, and go bowling.

Now after rebuilding, we have 17-18 starters returning for 2014 and much higher expectations.

You need consistency in a program like ours, Kentucky, OM, etc. We arent going to recruit the way the Bama's and LSU's do.

When was Ole Miss at it's best in the last 40 years? When Cut made them consistent. But they grew tired of that and brought in Orgeron. When was Kentucky at it's best? When they went to 5 straight bowl games and beat #1 LSU in 2007. That wasnt good enough and they forced retirement to allow his assistant to elevate their program. And that ended up like Orgeron at OM.

The grass is always greener.

Freezus is losing his two best WR's yardage-wise, one of his top RB's, and 5 of his top 10 guys on the OL. They are about to be right back where they were in 2013. 7 wins or so.

Auburn returned 20 starters and have been recruiting lights out for a number of years. And they are well-coached. Thats why they were able to do what they have done this year.

Ole Miss wanted to win the recruiting press conference over games. Our fans need to compare what we have done the past five years and compare it. If they did and they had a brain, they would be perfectly happy trading hat parties for sustained success on the field. Think about it- Ole Miss fired a coach that has turned Duke into a team that won their division so that they could win hat parties and flip their own recruits. And that's not to mention the fact that our future is set-up extremely well.

[Todd4State]

Damn Todd, that was great!

Thank you!

[HoopsDawg]

Todd Jordan said we need to recruit better and it appears we are doing so with the 2015 class. All the rest of the stuff in this thread is just wasted space.

[dawgs]

Bowls = being a good sustainable program. The fact that we have a longer current bowl streak and Florida and Auburn doesn't mean "it's not a big deal". Actually, it's the opposite- it means that it's more difficult to sustain success than some people may think.

And as far as Kentucky- I don't think they are an upper echelon SEC program, but during their bowl streak, it without a doubt elevated their program in my mind. The reason they don't have respect now is because they aren't good right now.

florida went to 22 or 23 straight bowls prior to this year. i think auburn has been to a bowl in 15 of the last 18 seasons. that is the epitome of consistency, and shows that while 4 straight bowls isn't anything to brush aside, it's hardly the kinda argument we wanna hang our hat on when arguing our pecking order in the conference. that's all i every intended by my post. just because we are 1 of the 6 sec programs to go to 4 straight bowls, it doesn't mean we are anywhere near the best/most successful sec programs over the last 4 years.

[codeDawg]

Todd Jordan said we need to recruit better and it appears we are doing so with the 2015 class. All the rest of the stuff in this thread is just wasted space.

DING, DING!

[TopDog58]

I agree but trust me, from experience, there are people out there (like Topdog58) that just CAN NOT get it. They'd rather us play harder schedules and shit. They have no clue why MSU would choose not to be a martyr.

I get it exactly, toolshed. I didn't mention one ******* thing about playing a harder schedule. I just simply stated that just because we have been to 4 straight bowls doesn't automatically propel us into the top half of the SEC, especially when we have FAILED to beat any of those teams in the last 3 years.

I AGREE we are headed in the right direction. But there is a lot of ASSUMING in this thread that building depth from 3 star diamond in the rough talent is going to pay off next year. Sorry, color me skeptical until I see it with my own eyes based on the FACTS of this season with the intangibles: place kicking, special teams, and wide receiver play.

Maybe we will follow the path of success that South Carolina has had. But to do that we still have to win, which we have not done consistently yet IN THE CONFERENCE.

[Pollodawg]

It amazes me that anyone who looks at Dak Prescott--who LSU made a huge late push for--, Bear Wilson, Chris Jones, Ashton Shumpert, Jameon Lewis, etc can honestly complain too hard.

[bluelightstar]

It amazes me that anyone who looks at Dak Prescott--who LSU made a huge late push for--, Bear Wilson, Chris Jones, Ashton Shumpert, Jameon Lewis, etc can honestly complain too hard.

Well considering we still haven't actually beat anyone with them...

There's still so much assuming going on that next year is the year we will finally rise up and beat one of those teams when we haven't done it in arguably the previous five year and definitely not since 2010. I sure hope we do, but there's plenty of evidence saying that this is nothing but hope springs eternal. Still.

[Coach34]

Well considering we still haven't actually beat anyone with them...

There's still so much assuming going on that next year is the year we will finally rise up and beat one of those teams when we haven't done it in arguably the previous five year and definitely not since 2010. I sure hope we do, but there's plenty of evidence saying that this is nothing but hope springs eternal. Still.

We will beat Auburn or Texas A&M at home next year- if not both. They are at home and we will play very well. We have a team to finally get over the hump.

LSU 2009
Auburn 2010
UPig 2010
SC 2011

All frustrating losses at home, no doubt. I just see the team we have put together coming up in 2014 as being superior to the ones previous and should get the job done.

[preachermatt83]

ratings and stars are very overrated. It's all about who fits your system. Dak may have been the best possible recruit we could have gotten for our offense yet his stars or lack of didn't mean jack squat.

[Pollodawg]

Well considering we still haven't actually beat anyone with them...

There's still so much assuming going on that next year is the year we will finally rise up and beat one of those teams when we haven't done it in arguably the previous five year and definitely not since 2010. I sure hope we do, but there's plenty of evidence saying that this is nothing but hope springs eternal. Still.


Ok, I have a challenge for you. Instead of tearing down or just rooting for another school, tell us how to do better.

[HoopsDawg]

We will beat Auburn or Texas A&M at home next year- if not both. They are at home and we will play very well. We have a team to finally get over the hump.

LSU 2009
Auburn 2010
UPig 2010
SC 2011

All frustrating losses at home, no doubt. I just see the team we have put together coming up in 2014 as being superior to the ones previous and should get the job done.

I somewhat agree with you, but I think you give too much credit to our O-line. In 2014, the O-line unproven at best, a weakness at worst. We were like 46th in the country in rushing despite having a beast at QB in Dak. And we are losing possibly the best Guard in the country. We are also losing our RT.

[Pollodawg]

If anyone thinks that we will consistently out recruit or beat teams like Auburn, Bama, LSU, you are asking for State to do something that we have never, ever done. Sorry. We will have ours years, and with Dan at the helm, we will have them more frequently, I think. Hell, we are already top half of the damn conference most years.

[engie]

We bring back 81 OL starts next year -- with significant PT in another 8 games(when Malone played in place of Tobias for majority of snaps last year). That would have been 30th most in the country this year. If you give 50% credit for all of Malone's PT from the 2nd offensive series on last year(essentially 4 more starts), we would be tied for 19th.

Malone's injury allows us to bring back 4 experienced starters. Literally the only potential questionmark at this point is at right tackle. Outside of 2011 with the injuries, our OL has been very good under this regime. Dak's run threat prevents them from coming after the QB very often as well.

[gravedigger]

It's all about who fits your system.

This all day. We might not have had the best running game we could have this year due to not using them correctly, but we did get Shumpert and we do have JRob right now that can come in and make a difference when we need them. We are not in the position of being FORCED to start a true freshman next year, although we have one coming in that is great.

Ask yourself this, what would have a Shumpert meant to Ole Miss this year? or Aries next year? I dont care what stars they had, we had to have that depth to build our offense when Dak is the man with no Tyler Russell offense to revert to. That is why getting THE RIGHT kind of kid is far more important than getting who is starred the highest.

OM loaded up on good players last year and will, it looks like, this year. But do they have all the peices to the puzzle they need? Do we? Every team has it's needs. I think ours was last year and remains this coming year at the offensive tackle position. We get that resolved between now and August and we could be more than just a decent team. If we fail to, we can get all the top receivers, corner backs and linebackers in the country and it wont resolve the issue of not being able to rule the offensive line of scrimmage.

[Todd4State]

florida went to 22 or 23 straight bowls prior to this year. i think auburn has been to a bowl in 15 of the last 18 seasons. that is the epitome of consistency, and shows that while 4 straight bowls isn't anything to brush aside, it's hardly the kinda argument we wanna hang our hat on when arguing our pecking order in the conference. that's all i every intended by my post. just because we are 1 of the 6 sec programs to go to 4 straight bowls, it doesn't mean we are anywhere near the best/most successful sec programs over the last 4 years.

It's a building process. But the more we do it- the more and more it becomes a strength. 4 becomes 5 next year then 6, and then eventually 10, and so on.

[HoopsDawg]

We bring back 81 OL starts next year -- with significant PT in another 8 games(when Malone played in place of Tobias for majority of snaps last year). That would have been 30th most in the country this year. If you give 50% credit for all of Malone's PT from the 2nd offensive series on last year(essentially 4 more starts), we would be tied for 19th.

Malone's injury allows us to bring back 4 experienced starters. Literally the only potential questionmark at this point is at right tackle. Outside of 2011 with the injuries, our OL has been very good under this regime. Dak's run threat prevents them from coming after the QB very often as well.

Most of those starts are from Clausell and Day. We were ineffective running the ball with our backs this year and we are losing a Man on the interior. (remember when OM said they wouldn't miss Oher) We could be good on the O-line, but it's going to depend on how much Clayborn and Malone improve and finding a RT that can be better than Siddoway. That's 3 If's on the O-line. I'm not saying we will be bad, but if you are going to start talking 9 or 10 wins, they have to be excellent. I don't see the talent for that and that falls squarely on RECRUITING. We have signed 15 O-linemen from 2010-2013 and we are banking on a lowly recruited JC transfer to take over at RT.

[Todd4State]

Most of those starts are from Clausell and Day. We were ineffective running the ball with our backs this year and we are losing a Man on the interior. (remember when OM said they wouldn't miss Oher) We could be good on the O-line, but it's going to depend on how much Clayborn and Malone improve and finding a RT that can be better than Siddoway. That's 3 If's on the O-line. I'm not saying we will be bad, but if you are going to start talking 9 or 10 wins, they have to be excellent. I don't see the talent for that and that falls squarely on RECRUITING. We have signed 15 O-linemen from 2010-2013 and we are banking on a lowly recruited JC transfer to take over at RT.

We are the rare case where we don't run the ball effectively because of how we use our RB's- not the o-line. Perkins is not an every down JJ Johnson type back. Dak had well over 800 yards rushing this year. Robinson almost matched Perkins in about 1/3 of the playing time. We would be so much more effective starting Robinson and Shumpert and then mixing in Perkins and using him on screens and in the passing game.

We have a Rimington Award candidate, a possible first round pick, and then another guy that is a likely NFL draft pick next year in Clausell. To me, it seems like guards are the easiest position to fill on the o-line. I think Clayborn will be fine- he may not be as good as Gabe, but he'll be adequate. Day is one of the best centers in the SEC. Malone is good, and if he isn't healthy, Beckwith is adequate. We do have to find a RT, but we have Jocquell Johnson- who I am a little leery off because of our history with JUCO o-linemen under Dan, Damien Robinson, Cole Carter, Justin Senior and Jake Thomas. We just have to find one guy out of that group that can play.

[Political Hack]

We bring back 81 OL starts next year -- with significant PT in another 8 games(when Malone played in place of Tobias for majority of snaps last year). That would have been 30th most in the country this year. If you give 50% credit for all of Malone's PT from the 2nd offensive series on last year(essentially 4 more starts), we would be tied for 19th.

Malone's injury allows us to bring back 4 experienced starters. Literally the only potential questionmark at this point is at right tackle. Outside of 2011 with the injuries, our OL has been very good under this regime. Dak's run threat prevents them from coming after the QB very often as well.

it's either the Wall Street journal or the Washington Post (I think one of those two) that uses a similar formula with a few teams in it to predict wins and losses during the preseason. It's surprisingly accurate considering how simple it is.

[bluelightstar]

Ok, I have a challenge for you. Instead of tearing down or just rooting for another school, tell us how to do better.

I haven't torn us down in this thread, so this is just an exercise in deflection.