MSU is STILL Not Serious About Football

[Todd4State]

What a shitshow this offseason has been.

We hire Zach Arnett as DC which I don't really need to expound on too much. He's one of the most overrated DC in MSU history and literally the only reason MSU fans like the guy is because he coached under Leach, has a farm in Starkville, and wears cowboy boots. Yep folks- that's how MSU fans decide whether you're a good football coach or not. You got a farm and you wear cowboy boots. Bonus points for picking up orange cones at practice. But lose the team, completely run the program into the ground, and basically turn it over to idiot boosters and their high school coach friend? Yeah- we'll take you back as DC. You simply do not see other schools picking their coaches based on BS like that. And that's why MSU loses- because we focus on the wrong things. BS like how redneck they act and how much they let the QB run the ball shouldn't be factors at all. But with MSU fans it is.

And then you have Bumphis who couldn't coach or recruit- but we're mad that he is gone because none of that matters because he was from Tupelo. One of the rare good moves Lebby made this whole offseason.

Also, why the **** is Cliff Odom still around? He apparently hasn't gotten to the point where our guys know how to return kicks because all they ever do are fair catch everything. Except when we're kicking the ball and our snapper is ****ing that up for the umpteenth time.

But this thing with Sneh to me just absolutely takes the cake. Only MSU would be the ONLY school in the entire NCAA that is trying to follow the rules. WHY? First of all, whoever made the mistake of thinking that Sneh had any eligibility should be fired tomorrow. And yes, make it public like MSU did with the media team after the NSD debacle just so that our fans know that you are at least trying to give a shit. But second of all that shouldn't matter because we should be appealing this and getting an injunction to get him eligible. And that's THE most disappointing thing to me. We aren't even ****ing trying. We're just like "Sorry son, that's a tough break." In the meantime Ole Miss is over here and getting their Heisman contender QB back for an extra year he doesn't deserve because why? Because they put the ****ing effort into it to get him eligible. If he went to MSU he would be in the NFL combine this past week and we would be moving. Not them. And that's why they're going to kick our ass AGAIN with a guy coaching them on offense who went to MSU while we're going to be looking for our next savior coach who is hopefully redneck enough to appease our idiot boosters and maybe scratch out 7 wins and a Liberty Bowl bid. Gee, I don't know why attendance is plummeting?******

So, I say this to say this. **** you Zac Selmon. You know this shit wouldn't happen at Oklahoma. And you're just sitting there letting this happen. **** you Jeff Lebby. You suck, you're coaching staff sucks, and you're going to be an OC at Arkansas State next year so get your resume' ready bitch.

Hallelujah. Holy Shit. Hail State.

[99jc]

Dang Todd,,,,now tell us how you really feel. :)

[Quaoarsking]

**** you Jeff Lebby. You suck, you're coaching staff sucks, and you're going to be an OC at Arkansas State next year so get your resume' ready bitch.

Welcome to the Resistance.

[AROB44]

Just think how good we would be if Todd was the AD.

[EdwardDrayton]

Wave that flag William Wallace! LOL!!!

[StarkVegasSteve]

What a shitshow this offseason has been.

We hire Zach Arnett as DC which I don't really need to expound on too much. He's one of the most overrated DC in MSU history and literally the only reason MSU fans like the guy is because he coached under Leach, has a farm in Starkville, and wears cowboy boots. Yep folks- that's how MSU fans decide whether you're a good football coach or not. You got a farm and you wear cowboy boots. Bonus points for picking up orange cones at practice. But lose the team, completely run the program into the ground, and basically turn it over to idiot boosters and their high school coach friend? Yeah- we'll take you back as DC. You simply do not see other schools picking their coaches based on BS like that. And that's why MSU loses- because we focus on the wrong things. BS like how redneck they act and how much they let the QB run the ball shouldn't be factors at all. But with MSU fans it is.

And then you have Bumphis who couldn't coach or recruit- but we're mad that he is gone because none of that matters because he was from Tupelo. One of the rare good moves Lebby made this whole offseason.

Also, why the **** is Cliff Odom still around? He apparently hasn't gotten to the point where our guys know how to return kicks because all they ever do are fair catch everything. Except when we're kicking the ball and our snapper is ****ing that up for the umpteenth time.

But this thing with Sneh to me just absolutely takes the cake. Only MSU would be the ONLY school in the entire NCAA that is trying to follow the rules. WHY? First of all, whoever made the mistake of thinking that Sneh had any eligibility should be fired tomorrow. And yes, make it public like MSU did with the media team after the NSD debacle just so that our fans know that you are at least trying to give a shit. But second of all that shouldn't matter because we should be appealing this and getting an injunction to get him eligible. And that's THE most disappointing thing to me. We aren't even ****ing trying. We're just like "Sorry son, that's a tough break." In the meantime Ole Miss is over here and getting their Heisman contender QB back for an extra year he doesn't deserve because why? Because they put the ****ing effort into it to get him eligible. If he went to MSU he would be in the NFL combine this past week and we would be moving. Not them. And that's why they're going to kick our ass AGAIN with a guy coaching them on offense who went to MSU while we're going to be looking for our next savior coach who is hopefully redneck enough to appease our idiot boosters and maybe scratch out 7 wins and a Liberty Bowl bid. Gee, I don't know why attendance is plummeting?******

So, I say this to say this. **** you Zac Selmon. You know this shit wouldn't happen at Oklahoma. And you're just sitting there letting this happen. **** you Jeff Lebby. You suck, you're coaching staff sucks, and you're going to be an OC at Arkansas State next year so get your resume' ready bitch.

Hallelujah. Holy Shit. Hail State.

I'll try to parse this out one thought at a time.

On Arnett, as I have said before, he's back comfortable in his own skin as the DC. Our defense will DRASTICALLY improve. Hell he had a D with LANDON 17 GUIDRY starting at safety multiple games and our D was ranked 57th. His last defense was ranked 40th. Our two defenses under Coleman Hutzler were 118 and 106. So to say we're going to improve drastically on D just by changing the coordinator is a massive understatement. You're still looking at Zach through the lens of Zach the HC. That's not him and never was him. Yes he listened to the wrong people and yes he made mistakes. Those people are gone and Zach learned he's not a HC. He learned he liked being the politically incorrect DC instead of the buttoned up not comfortable in his own skin HC.

On Bumphis, it doesn't matter who is coaching that position. They are going to produce. Any of us could coach that position and the results would be the same. People have gotten over the Bumphis stuff. It was a story for 48 hours. We hired Phillip Montgomery, who's going to work with WRs and the overall offense with Lebby, and we have Dez Lindsey who will work a little more hands on with the WRs. If you could upgrade a position that is going to produce anyways, we did.

On Odom, yea I agree he should've been fired. Our ST was bad last year and cost us the Texas game.

On Sneh, our staff and admissions people were told he was good to go. We even dug around to make sure and nothing came back that worried us. We actually offered to fight this and Sneh was the one who didn't want to fight it. Not us. So to act like we're just waving the white flag and following the rules is not reality in any form. If the kid doesn't want to fight it, then there isn't much you can do.

Zac Selmon gave you, yes YOU because I know you're the baseball aficionado of the board, the greatest MSU coach of the last 40 years. I'd probably pipe down on MF'ing him to hell and back. And look, Lebby has this year and he knows he has this year. He has a once in a generation QB that he has built some really good pieces around. We need the OL to take a massive step forward, but we don't know what we have there until toe meets leather on Sept 12 in Minneapolis. Because if we know before then it will be only bad.

[Tater]

There has to be more to this story. This makes no sense.

2022 - Played in 4 games as a Freshman; Redshirt
2023 - Played in 10 games as a Redshirt Freshman
2024 - Played in 11 games as a Redshirt Sophomore
2025 - Played in 12 games as a Redshirt Junior
2026 - Set to be at MSU for Redshirt Senior year and ruled ineligible????

[StarkVegasSteve]

There has to be more to this story. This makes no sense.

2022 - Played in 4 games as a Freshman; Redshirt
2023 - Played in 10 games as a Redshirt Freshman
2024 - Played in 11 games as a Redshirt Sophomore
2025 - Played in 12 games as a Redshirt Junior
2026 - Set to be at MSU for Redshirt Senior year and ruled ineligible????

That's what I'm trying to get more clarity on. The only thing I can think is there somehow saying the RS didn't count since it was at a D2, which makes absolutely no sense but it's the only thing I can come up with.

[Tater]

That's what I'm trying to get more clarity on. The only thing I can think is there somehow saying the RS didn't count since it was at a D2, which makes absolutely no sense but it's the only thing I can come up with.

Yea let me know. I'm confused why he doesn't even want to fight it either. Did they lie about how many games he played in his freshman year? Did he just decide he wants to turn the chapter and not fight for a starting spot or put his body in harm's way?

https://247sports.com/Player/brandon-sneh-46154249/TimelineEvents/

[Goldendawg]

Wow, we lost the 54th-best OL in this past portal for our most important position of need, LT from UNA, who went. what 3-8? He was also ranked about the 750th overall player on the portal. This is what we really should be tee'd off about, in my opinion. We again have an in-over-his-head assistant coach hired as an on-the-job training HC, who will be gone mid-season this year. Will we then "rinse and repeat" on the next hire?

[DEDawg]

There is no way the kid will make more money going pro then he would playing for us this season. This also seems like something we could easily fight. Something is not adding up.

[StarkVegasSteve]

There is no way the kid will make more money going pro then he would playing for us this season. This also seems like something we could easily fight. Something is not adding up.

If the kid doesn't want to fight it then you're not going to fight it. That simple. We probably would've won it had he wanted to fight it.

[msugolf]

Guys none of this matters. Lebby will not be back after this year and the people who make this call are already preparing for it

[Coach34]

Guys none of this matters. Lebby will not be back after this year and the people who make this call are already preparing for it

and we will bring on the next guy that will struggle to get to 6 wins

[DEDawg]

If the kid doesn't want to fight it then you're not going to fight it. That simple. We probably would've won it had he wanted to fight it.

Thats what I?m saying. Something does not add up.

[TrapGame]

Guys none of this matters. Lebby will not be back after this year and the people who make this call are already preparing for it

I have heard Charles Huff has made it known to Selmon that if we move on from Lebby he is very interested in being the next head coach. If Huff has a really good year at Memphis he will be in the top three candidates.

[CrosscityDawg]

In division II, you can only play 3 games and take a redshirt. He played 4.

[ArrowDawg]

What a shitshow this offseason has been.

We hire Zach Arnett as DC which I don't really need to expound on too much. He's one of the most overrated DC in MSU history and literally the only reason MSU fans like the guy is because he coached under Leach, has a farm in Starkville, and wears cowboy boots. Yep folks- that's how MSU fans decide whether you're a good football coach or not. You got a farm and you wear cowboy boots. Bonus points for picking up orange cones at practice. But lose the team, completely run the program into the ground, and basically turn it over to idiot boosters and their high school coach friend? Yeah- we'll take you back as DC. You simply do not see other schools picking their coaches based on BS like that. And that's why MSU loses- because we focus on the wrong things. BS like how redneck they act and how much they let the QB run the ball shouldn't be factors at all. But with MSU fans it is.

And then you have Bumphis who couldn't coach or recruit- but we're mad that he is gone because none of that matters because he was from Tupelo. One of the rare good moves Lebby made this whole offseason.

Also, why the **** is Cliff Odom still around? He apparently hasn't gotten to the point where our guys know how to return kicks because all they ever do are fair catch everything. Except when we're kicking the ball and our snapper is ****ing that up for the umpteenth time.

But this thing with Sneh to me just absolutely takes the cake. Only MSU would be the ONLY school in the entire NCAA that is trying to follow the rules. WHY? First of all, whoever made the mistake of thinking that Sneh had any eligibility should be fired tomorrow. And yes, make it public like MSU did with the media team after the NSD debacle just so that our fans know that you are at least trying to give a shit. But second of all that shouldn't matter because we should be appealing this and getting an injunction to get him eligible. And that's THE most disappointing thing to me. We aren't even ****ing trying. We're just like "Sorry son, that's a tough break." In the meantime Ole Miss is over here and getting their Heisman contender QB back for an extra year he doesn't deserve because why? Because they put the ****ing effort into it to get him eligible. If he went to MSU he would be in the NFL combine this past week and we would be moving. Not them. And that's why they're going to kick our ass AGAIN with a guy coaching them on offense who went to MSU while we're going to be looking for our next savior coach who is hopefully redneck enough to appease our idiot boosters and maybe scratch out 7 wins and a Liberty Bowl bid. Gee, I don't know why attendance is plummeting?******

So, I say this to say this. **** you Zac Selmon. You know this shit wouldn't happen at Oklahoma. And you're just sitting there letting this happen. **** you Jeff Lebby. You suck, you're coaching staff sucks, and you're going to be an OC at Arkansas State next year so get your resume' ready bitch.

Hallelujah. Holy Shit. Hail State.

I agree with everything, minus the emotion because I already used that up a year or so ago. Mostly, I just point and laugh at our football program now.

[Todd4State]

I'll try to parse this out one thought at a time.

On Arnett, as I have said before, he's back comfortable in his own skin as the DC. Our defense will DRASTICALLY improve. Hell he had a D with LANDON 17 GUIDRY starting at safety multiple games and our D was ranked 57th. His last defense was ranked 40th. Our two defenses under Coleman Hutzler were 118 and 106. So to say we're going to improve drastically on D just by changing the coordinator is a massive understatement. You're still looking at Zach through the lens of Zach the HC. That's not him and never was him. Yes he listened to the wrong people and yes he made mistakes. Those people are gone and Zach learned he's not a HC. He learned he liked being the politically incorrect DC instead of the buttoned up not comfortable in his own skin HC.

On Bumphis, it doesn't matter who is coaching that position. They are going to produce. Any of us could coach that position and the results would be the same. People have gotten over the Bumphis stuff. It was a story for 48 hours. We hired Phillip Montgomery, who's going to work with WRs and the overall offense with Lebby, and we have Dez Lindsey who will work a little more hands on with the WRs. If you could upgrade a position that is going to produce anyways, we did.

On Odom, yea I agree he should've been fired. Our ST was bad last year and cost us the Texas game.

On Sneh, our staff and admissions people were told he was good to go. We even dug around to make sure and nothing came back that worried us. We actually offered to fight this and Sneh was the one who didn't want to fight it. Not us. So to act like we're just waving the white flag and following the rules is not reality in any form. If the kid doesn't want to fight it, then there isn't much you can do.

Zac Selmon gave you, yes YOU because I know you're the baseball aficionado of the board, the greatest MSU coach of the last 40 years. I'd probably pipe down on MF'ing him to hell and back. And look, Lebby has this year and he knows he has this year. He has a once in a generation QB that he has built some really good pieces around. We need the OL to take a massive step forward, but we don't know what we have there until toe meets leather on Sept 12 in Minneapolis. Because if we know before then it will be only bad.

If Sneh doesn't really want to play that doesn't look any better for the staff.

I'm cool with Selmon. But the thing about baseball is the boosters that helped get BOC actually know and understand the sport and understand how to win. Because many of them have won the World Series at the MLB level. The only thing our football boosters know anything about are making furniture, construction and engineering.

They don't know how to win in football. So they try to mimic the high school programs in the area. The result is good old boys who run boring archaic schemes and make excuses for their own failings.

If tbe football booster made the baseball hire we would have Elander as our head coach because BOC is from the north and he bunts too much.

[Brobi-wan]

I have heard Charles Huff has made it known to Selmon that if we move on from Lebby he is very interested in being the next head coach. If Huff has a really good year at Memphis he will be in the top three candidates.

Oh great. Someone else to come make us losers

[Tater]

I have heard Charles Huff has made it known to Selmon that if we move on from Lebby he is very interested in being the next head coach. If Huff has a really good year at Memphis he will be in the top three candidates.

Posts from 2027 on al.com:

I have heard Charles Huff has made it known to Byrne that if we move on from DeBoer he is very interested in being the next head coach. If Huff has a really good year at State he will be in the top three candidates.

[Lord McBuckethead]

Not only that, Arnett was a DC under Leach who had the defense on the field for like 90 plays a game due to us either scoring in 40 seconds or punting in 40 seconds. Imagine an offense that actually uses the clock a bit more and how many less yards and points our defense would give up.

[Homedawg]

and we will bring on the next guy that will struggle to get to 6 wins

yep

[Homedawg]

D2 rules are different than d1 he could only play in 3 games and rs. Why are they different, no clue, but that's the case. Now, yall can fight amongest yourselves of why we or other schools didn't know this..............

[Tater]

Not only that, Arnett was a DC under Leach who had the defense on the field for like 90 plays a game due to us either scoring in 40 seconds or punting in 40 seconds. Imagine an offense that actually uses the clock a bit more and how many less yards and points our defense would give up.

What?

State's ranking with Time of Possession by year:

2020 - 21st 32:03
2021 - 43rd 30:57
2022 - 7th 33:52
2023 - 54th 30:24
2024 - 103rd 28:31
2025 - 131st 26:02

Idk wtf you watched under Leach but if you don't think his offense was ball control you clearly just have a basic "run = ball control; pass = not" level of knowledge.

[BrunswickDawg]

Not only that, Arnett was a DC under Leach who had the defense on the field for like 90 plays a game due to us either scoring in 40 seconds or punting in 40 seconds. Imagine an offense that actually uses the clock a bit more and how many less yards and points our defense would give up.

This is such a tired trope. In 2020 we ran the 5th most offensive plays in the SEC (69ppg), and were 4th in Time of Possession; in '21 3rd (75ppg) and 1st; and in '22 6th (71 ppg) and 7th.
For reference, under "peak Mullen" in '17 we ran 76 plays a game.

On defense in '20 we defended 71 ppg (5th most); in '21 62 ppg (2nd fewest); an in '22 67 ppg (6th fewest).
Our "greatest defense EVAR!!!!" in 2018 was on the field for 64 ppg (4th fewest).

So there was literally no difference in Leach and anyone else we've had.

[Coach34]

Not only that, Arnett was a DC under Leach who had the defense on the field for like 90 plays a game due to us either scoring in 40 seconds or punting in 40 seconds. Imagine an offense that actually uses the clock a bit more and how many less yards and points our defense would give up.

You didnt watch SEC Mike Leach in Airbone. Under Leach we held the ball for over 30 mins per game and were 10th in the country in TOP for 2021 at 33:12 per game. Thus the Airbone nickname

[Quaoarsking]

and we will bring on the next guy that will struggle to get to 6 wins

At least maybe we'll find a likable guy who's fun to root for instead of this jackass.

I've heard from a couple different people that waiters and waitresses hate when Lebby comes into their restaurants because he is such a dickhead and talks down to them.

[AROB44]

At least maybe we'll find a likable guy who's fun to root for instead of this jackass.

I've heard from a couple different people that waiters and waitresses hate when Lebby comes into their restaurants because he is such a dickhead and talks down to them.

Now that's a new reason to get rid of a coach.

[Todd4State]

At least maybe we'll find a likable guy who's fun to root for instead of this jackass.

I've heard from a couple different people that waiters and waitresses hate when Lebby comes into their restaurants because he is such a dickhead and talks down to them.

Remember when I said MSU fans focus too much on things that don't matter. I'll add this to the list.

[Ranchdawg]

I am shocked that nobody has come along and said you can not complain about how terrible our football program is without contributing to the NIL.

[MBDawg601]

I?m not understanding the meltdown.

We were not THAT far off last year.

Yeah we lost all but one SEC game, but it was a hell of a lot more entertaining and we were much more threatening than the prior two years. I?m patient enough to see what happens this year before I start the doom and gloom.

I enjoyed the season, yeah some heartbreaking losses but we were taking it to teams 4x more talented. And I like that.

[Todd4State]

I am shocked that nobody has come along and said you can not complain about how terrible our football program is without contributing to the NIL.

We are doing better with NIL and we certainly need to keep giving and keep improving.

But there are two sides to it. The fans giving the resources and MSU fans have given. But the other side is the coaches using the resources, identifying talent and attracting the talent. That is where Lebby and friends have shit the bed.

[DEDawg]

I?m not understanding the meltdown.

We were not THAT far off last year.

Yeah we lost all but one SEC game, but it was a hell of a lot more entertaining and we were much more threatening than the prior two years. I?m patient enough to see what happens this year before I start the doom and gloom.

I enjoyed the season, yeah some heartbreaking losses but we were taking it to teams 4x more talented. And I like that.

The single biggest issue going into this year was DC and LT. some are not happy with DC and LT is obviously now a complete failure for 2026. It?s a reasonable meltdown topic. KT needs to grow as a passer, we wont get any better if his only option by late October is one read that scramble because blind side has collapsed.

[Quaoarsking]

Now that's a new reason to get rid of a coach.

Going 2-17 against P4 opponents (and also a blowout loss to Toledo thrown in) is a reason to get rid of a coach. But if he was cool and likable, it would be easier to understand why people still cling to him. Instead, we've got a bad coach who is also a bad person.

[Quaoarsking]

I?m not understanding the meltdown.

We were not THAT far off last year.

Yeah we lost all but one SEC game, but it was a hell of a lot more entertaining and we were much more threatening than the prior two years. I?m patient enough to see what happens this year before I start the doom and gloom.

I enjoyed the season, yeah some heartbreaking losses but we were taking it to teams 4x more talented. And I like that.

FPI rankings the last 3 years:

2023: 60
2024: 66
2025: 58

Just not much to be proud about in any of the last 3 seasons. Arnett and Lebby both eked out a win over an overrated team from the state of Arizona at home (hey, I'll still take it) and were extremely fortunate to beat a really bad Arkansas team on the road.

[Quaoarsking]

He has a once in a generation QB that he has built some really good pieces around.

I'm really skeptical of this sentence. Kamario Taylor could have a really good career here and still not surpass Nick Fitzgerald (8 years ago) and especially Dak Prescott (11 years ago). And even if he does, he probably won't this year.

I hope you're right though, obviously.

[KOdawg1]

Arnett isn't an overrated DC.

Your Air Raid Fan Club biases are showing again.

The rest, I agree with.

[PGHBulldogBG]

The most frustrating thing about our football situation is that we have still not realized that our best shot at being successful is to hire a sitting head coach that has won consistently at programs with a talent deficiency. When we did decide to randomly make that decision with Leach it was working until he died. After year 3 he beat Kiffin @ Ole Miss and then he passed away. Instead we make the same mistakes over and over again by hiring coordinators that don’t work out. Mullen only worked because he was a coordinator for the 2nd best coach in the modern era besides Saban.

This is why I would love for us to hire Vigen and try something. I know a lot of people might think that he coached at a lower level and that’s a respectable opinion, but we aren’t going to get a coach that has been successful at a high level. Those coaches are seeking out programs with more resources and more money. This is the reason I wanted to hire Cignetti when Arnett was fired. I’m not saying Vigen is the only option, but he is winning at Montana State without recruiting top talent compared to other teams in their league.

We are never going to be a program in the SEC that pays a lot of money compared to the big boys. It’s just not going to happen. I’m not saying that’s not important, but we can throw that option out the window. That means the only chance is to think outside the box and hire someone who fits this criteria. Until our AD or boosters realize this, it’s going to be the same thing over and over.

[Coach34]

The most frustrating thing about our football situation is that we have still not realized that our best shot at being successful is to hire a sitting head coach that has won consistently at programs with a talent deficiency. When we did decide to randomly make that decision with Leach it was working until he died. After year 3 he beat Kiffin @ Ole Miss and then he passed away. Instead we make the same mistakes over and over again by hiring coordinators that don’t work out. Mullen only worked because he was a coordinator for the 2nd best coach in the modern era besides Saban.

This is why I would love for us to hire Vigen and try something. I know a lot of people might think that he coached at a lower level and that’s a respectable opinion, but we aren’t going to get a coach that has been successful at a high level. Those coaches are seeking out programs with more resources and more money. This is the reason I wanted to hire Cignetti when Arnett was fired. I’m not saying Vigen is the only option, but he is winning at Montana State without recruiting top talent compared to other teams in their league.

We are never going to be a program in the SEC that pays a lot of money compared to the big boys. It’s just not going to happen. I’m not saying that’s not important, but we can throw that option out the window. That means the only chance is to think outside the box and hire someone who fits this criteria. Until our AD or boosters realize this, it’s going to be the same thing over and over.

My concern is that it would be a Harsin situation- a fish out of water. Can a guy from a mostly white state that coaches mostly white players during his career come to the South and coach a team that is going to be 80% black? That's the gamble with him. LSU just went thru thru that same problem with a coach that didnt fit

[PGHBulldogBG]

My concern is that it would be a Harsin situation- a fish out of water. Can a guy from a mostly white state that coaches mostly white players during his career come to the South and coach a team that is going to be 80% black? That's the gamble with him. LSU just went thru thru that same problem with a coach that didnt fit

The difference with Harsin is that he was winning at Boise State because he had a talent advantage at that point to the rest of the conference. Vigen is not in that same situation. If you look at raw talent when he started winning there it was bad compared to alot of other teams in the division. Again, I’m not saying Vigen is going to be our savior and only option, but he is an example of someone we should consider hiring over coordinators who have little or no head coaching experience. I am not an AD so it’s not my job to find this person, but this is the type of candidate we need to look at

[CaptainObvious]

Mike Tomlin should be available after Lebby drives the Chevy off the Levee!

[PGHBulldogBG]

Mike Tomlin should be available after Lebby drives the Chevy off the Levee!

Please no. I’ve dealt with him as a Steelers fan for many years. I can’t take him with 2 of my teams

[Coach34]

I am not an AD so it’s not my job to find this person, but this is the type of candidate we need to look at

I agree that we need to do something outside of the box. My way out idea is to do what TT did- hire a super successful HS coach from a really big HS program. Let's look at Scott Surratt in Carthage, Tx. 11-0 in state championship games. Took over a program that had never won one. Coached my ex-girlfriend's sons

https://sports.yahoo.com/articles/carthage-hc-scott-surratt-improves-020706402.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuYmluZy5jb20v&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAN0T2rhxBpyBzz3y7xw_ygnIfMte B-BpaFsW3qpEpFyH4eQaqV7qyiY8vM1Xs1GQIfl2K3Uen_EPlPpn QID4ll4QfDp9IiY1EpUrrppyC6ItoyKoTtRW4vnYHKGAs_O8RW ttHxz6BhXQQ7EPYcTcbIKyGaxrJt89Xdci7-xYhuG7

[Quaoarsking]

I also like Vigen a lot, but if we want someone with some FBS experience, we could at least consider KC Keeler. He won at Rowan (D3), Delaware (FCS), Sam Houston (FCS to FBS), and just started at Temple this past year, where he went 5-7, though Temple only won 13 games combined over the previous 5 years.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K._C._Keeler

Drawback: He's 66.
Counterargument: You're probably aren't going to get a coach for longer than a decade anyway.

[EdwardDrayton]

I agree that we need to do something outside of the box. My way out idea is to do what TT did- hire a super successful HS coach from a really big HS program. Let's look at Scott Surratt in Carthage, Tx. 11-0 in state championship games. Took over a program that had never won one. Coached my ex-girlfriend's sons

https://sports.yahoo.com/articles/carthage-hc-scott-surratt-improves-020706402.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuYmluZy5jb20v&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAN0T2rhxBpyBzz3y7xw_ygnIfMte B-BpaFsW3qpEpFyH4eQaqV7qyiY8vM1Xs1GQIfl2K3Uen_EPlPpn QID4ll4QfDp9IiY1EpUrrppyC6ItoyKoTtRW4vnYHKGAs_O8RW ttHxz6BhXQQ7EPYcTcbIKyGaxrJt89Xdci7-xYhuG7

That's not out of the box. That sets the box on fire.

[Coach34]

That's not out of the box. That sets the box on fire.

But he got some experience on A&M's staff when he was younger. He is not just some random HS coach

[Coach34]

Malzahn turned out alright

[Todd4State]

Malzahn turned out alright

Wasn't he an OC at Arkansas before he became a head coach? Actually he was the OC at Auburn too if I remember correctly.

[Todd4State]

We don't need to think outside the box. We need to stay inside the box.

The most successful coaches at MSU- Bellard, Jackie, Dan, and Leach. Three out of the four had head coaching experience at P4 schools. We need to get Harrell from ECU or Dickert from Wake Forest.

[R2Dawg]

We don't need to think outside the box. We need to stay inside the box.

The most successful coaches at MSU- Bellard, Jackie, Dan, and Leach. Three out of the four had head coaching experience at P4 schools. We need to get Harrell from ECU or Dickert from Wake Forest.

Agree and do the same with a lot of players. Get the best dudes at lower levels too.

[MBDawg601]

FPI rankings the last 3 years:

2023: 60
2024: 66
2025: 58

Just not much to be proud about in any of the last 3 seasons. Arnett and Lebby both eked out a win over an overrated team from the state of Arizona at home (hey, I'll still take it) and were extremely fortunate to beat a really bad Arkansas team on the road.

Yes the end of the year results are not where we wanted to be, but our final record was exactly what most thought it would be. I don?t count bowl games because they are not what they ?used to be?.

Coming out of the OT Tennessee game I felt much better about our football program. We had some big injuries that game that had huge impacts. Fluff and Whitson going down was two of our most important pieces.

We gotta get better, but acting like we were way off last year is crazy. We had Texas on the ropes, eventually we just ran out of steam. These are all teams that out taken my us by 30-40 ranks.

[somebodyshotmypaw]

Not only that, Arnett was a DC under Leach who had the defense on the field for like 90 plays a game due to us either scoring in 40 seconds or punting in 40 seconds. Imagine an offense that actually uses the clock a bit more and how many less yards and points our defense would give up.

No accurate at all. We didn?t run hurry-up or tempo. We took a long time between snaps and threw to Woody Marks for a 4 yard completion (similar to a running play). It took 12 plays to score.

[Quaoarsking]

Yes the end of the year results are not where we wanted to be, but our final record was exactly what most thought it would be.
If we had known all of these things ahead of time, everyone would have picked us to win 7 or 8 games:

Arizona State is not an elite team - they will finish unranked with no votes.
Tennessee is not an elite team - they will finish unranked with no votes.
Florida is not a good team at all - they will finish 4-8.
Texas is not an elite team - they will finish ranked, but not in the playoffs and nowhere close to their #1 ranking preseason. They, and in particular Arch, will underachieve all season.
Arkansas is not on the upswing with Petrino as OC. In fact they will finish 2-10.
Missouri is not a good team - they will finish unranked (but with a few votes)
Northern Illinois is actually one of the worst teams in the MAC, not a contender - I probably shouldn't include this because we should beat any MAC team anyway, but we all came into 2025 remembering what the MAC did to us in 2024....


Sorry to rehash arguments from 2 months ago, but our schedule was so much easier than we all thought it would be, and we failed to seize the opportunity that presented. I wonder what we'll be like in a year where we get really unlucky with the schedule.

[smootness]

I agree that we need to do something outside of the box. My way out idea is to do what TT did- hire a super successful HS coach from a really big HS program. Let's look at Scott Surratt in Carthage, Tx. 11-0 in state championship games. Took over a program that had never won one. Coached my ex-girlfriend's sons

https://sports.yahoo.com/articles/carthage-hc-scott-surratt-improves-020706402.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuYmluZy5jb20v&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAN0T2rhxBpyBzz3y7xw_ygnIfMte B-BpaFsW3qpEpFyH4eQaqV7qyiY8vM1Xs1GQIfl2K3Uen_EPlPpn QID4ll4QfDp9IiY1EpUrrppyC6ItoyKoTtRW4vnYHKGAs_O8RW ttHxz6BhXQQ7EPYcTcbIKyGaxrJt89Xdci7-xYhuG7

You just ignoring the half a decade Maguire spent at Baylor before TT?

[smootness]

What a shitshow this offseason has been.

We hire Zach Arnett as DC which I don't really need to expound on too much. He's one of the most overrated DC in MSU history and literally the only reason MSU fans like the guy is because he coached under Leach, has a farm in Starkville, and wears cowboy boots. Yep folks- that's how MSU fans decide whether you're a good football coach or not. You got a farm and you wear cowboy boots. Bonus points for picking up orange cones at practice. But lose the team, completely run the program into the ground, and basically turn it over to idiot boosters and their high school coach friend? Yeah- we'll take you back as DC. You simply do not see other schools picking their coaches based on BS like that. And that's why MSU loses- because we focus on the wrong things. BS like how redneck they act and how much they let the QB run the ball shouldn't be factors at all. But with MSU fans it is.

And then you have Bumphis who couldn't coach or recruit- but we're mad that he is gone because none of that matters because he was from Tupelo. One of the rare good moves Lebby made this whole offseason.

Also, why the **** is Cliff Odom still around? He apparently hasn't gotten to the point where our guys know how to return kicks because all they ever do are fair catch everything. Except when we're kicking the ball and our snapper is ****ing that up for the umpteenth time.

But this thing with Sneh to me just absolutely takes the cake. Only MSU would be the ONLY school in the entire NCAA that is trying to follow the rules. WHY? First of all, whoever made the mistake of thinking that Sneh had any eligibility should be fired tomorrow. And yes, make it public like MSU did with the media team after the NSD debacle just so that our fans know that you are at least trying to give a shit. But second of all that shouldn't matter because we should be appealing this and getting an injunction to get him eligible. And that's THE most disappointing thing to me. We aren't even ****ing trying. We're just like "Sorry son, that's a tough break." In the meantime Ole Miss is over here and getting their Heisman contender QB back for an extra year he doesn't deserve because why? Because they put the ****ing effort into it to get him eligible. If he went to MSU he would be in the NFL combine this past week and we would be moving. Not them. And that's why they're going to kick our ass AGAIN with a guy coaching them on offense who went to MSU while we're going to be looking for our next savior coach who is hopefully redneck enough to appease our idiot boosters and maybe scratch out 7 wins and a Liberty Bowl bid. Gee, I don't know why attendance is plummeting?******

So, I say this to say this. **** you Zac Selmon. You know this shit wouldn't happen at Oklahoma. And you're just sitting there letting this happen. **** you Jeff Lebby. You suck, you're coaching staff sucks, and you're going to be an OC at Arkansas State next year so get your resume' ready bitch.

Hallelujah. Holy Shit. Hail State.

Arnett is not overrated as a DC. At all. At this point, because of people like you, he is underrated.

[Quaoarsking]

Arnett was a good DC for Leach - no complaints.

I think there is reason to be "hopeful but concerned" about whether he can be a good DC for Lebby.

[AROB44]

Hate to burst your bubble, Todd, but Bullard had 2 winning seasons in his 7 year tenure. Since I was at the game, I'm well aware that he had that great win, but you would have been screaming for his head after 1981.

[BankerDog]

I agree that we need to do something outside of the box. My way out idea is to do what TT did- hire a super successful HS coach from a really big HS program. Let's look at Scott Surratt in Carthage, Tx. 11-0 in state championship games. Took over a program that had never won one. Coached my ex-girlfriend's sons

https://sports.yahoo.com/articles/carthage-hc-scott-surratt-improves-020706402.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuYmluZy5jb20v&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAN0T2rhxBpyBzz3y7xw_ygnIfMte B-BpaFsW3qpEpFyH4eQaqV7qyiY8vM1Xs1GQIfl2K3Uen_EPlPpn QID4ll4QfDp9IiY1EpUrrppyC6ItoyKoTtRW4vnYHKGAs_O8RW ttHxz6BhXQQ7EPYcTcbIKyGaxrJt89Xdci7-xYhuG7

About 100% sure that his daughter?s boyfriend is on staff now. Is one of Lebby?s right hand guys, Tanner Schafer

[PGHBulldogBG]

We don't need to think outside the box. We need to stay inside the box.

The most successful coaches at MSU- Bellard, Jackie, Dan, and Leach. Three out of the four had head coaching experience at P4 schools. We need to get Harrell from ECU or Dickert from Wake Forest.

I would be all for that if we could pull those coaches. I am just not sure we can do that because if they have successful seasons they will probably get better offers. I just think going with someone who has head coaching experience for a good number of years at lower levels is generally better than a coordinator unless they are mentored by a fantastic coach like Meyer or Saban and have multiple NCs under their belt like Mullen and Smart did.

[msstate7]

Arnett is a hell of a DC. Hell, when we were getting 3 yard passes on offense, his defense was winning games.

[Quaoarsking]

Arnett is a hell of a DC. Hell, when we were getting 3 yard passes on offense, his defense was winning games.

I just reviewed the 11 SEC games we won under Leach and couldn't find a single example of a time where the offense was bad and the defense won the game for us.

There were examples where the offense and defense were both pretty good (not taking anything away from Arnett) and 1 game where they were both bad and we somehow won anyway (2020 Vanderbilt), but I don't think your description of "Arnett's defense winning games for Leach" stands up to scrutiny.

[msstate7]

I just reviewed the 11 SEC games we won under Leach and couldn't find a single example of a time where the offense was bad and the defense won the game for us.

There were examples where the offense and defense were both pretty good (not taking anything away from Arnett) and 1 game where they were both bad and we somehow won anyway (2020 Vanderbilt), but I don't think your description of "Arnett's defense winning games for Leach" stands up to scrutiny.

I don't even care enough to look, but did offense ever score more than def allowed during leach tenure? Sec ranks?

[DownwardDawg]

I just reviewed the 11 SEC games we won under Leach and couldn't find a single example of a time where the offense was bad and the defense won the game for us.

There were examples where the offense and defense were both pretty good (not taking anything away from Arnett) and 1 game where they were both bad and we somehow won anyway (2020 Vanderbilt), but I don't think your description of "Arnett's defense winning games for Leach" stands up to scrutiny.

Hell, right off the top of my head I can name one. The last game Leach coached. The Egg Bowl. The defense kept kiffins offense in check most of the game. The offense had opportunities to put the game away and couldn't seal the deal. Offense handed ole miss the ball and said here ya go. Defense stopped them for the win.

There were multiple games that the defense kept it close enough despite the offense not being able to do shit. Then the offense scored just enough to win. Only because the defense kept the score low and close.

[Quaoarsking]

Let's see if this formats correctly:

Offensive Yards
Offensive TDs
Defensive Yards Allowed
Defensive TDs Allowed
Defensive TDs Scored


632 5 425 4 0 2020 LSU 44-34
208 3 478 2 0 2020 Vanderbilt 24-17
446 4 342 4 2 2020 Missouri 51-32
438 3 297 2 0 2021 Texas A&M 26-22
522 6 155 0 0 2021 Vanderbilt 45-6
438 4 216 1 0 2021 Kentucky 31-17
487 6 483 5 0 2021 Auburn 43-34
473 4 388 3 1 2022 Texas A&M 42-24
568 6 483 2 0 2022 Arkansas 40-17
370 4 331 4 0 2022 Auburn 39-33
336 3 335 3 0 2022 Ole Miss 24-22

These are the 11 SEC wins in the Leach Era. There isn't a good example of the offense sucking and the defense bailing us out for the win. In 8 of the 11 wins, we had at least 400 yards and 3 TDs, so even when the defense played well too, you can't say they bailed us out.
The last 2 games, 2022 wins over Auburn and Ole Miss, seem really similar on paper, which is interesting because they don't seem that way in my memory. I remember thinking the offense and defense were both flat against Auburn and that they both played pretty well against Ole Miss (except when Will Rogers tried to run it in himself and failed).
They were both awful against Vanderbilt in 2020 and we were incredibly lucky to win.


None of this is intended as a knock on Arnett. He did well as Leach's DC. I'm just defending Leach's offense.

[R2Dawg]

Let's see if this formats correctly:

Offensive Yards
Offensive TDs
Defensive Yards Allowed
Defensive TDs Allowed
Defensive TDs Scored


632 5 425 4 0 2020 LSU 44-34
208 3 478 2 0 2020 Vanderbilt 24-17
446 4 342 4 2 2020 Missouri 51-32
438 3 297 2 0 2021 Texas A&M 26-22
522 6 155 0 0 2021 Vanderbilt 45-6
438 4 216 1 0 2021 Kentucky 31-17
487 6 483 5 0 2021 Auburn 43-34
473 4 388 3 1 2022 Texas A&M 42-24
568 6 483 2 0 2022 Arkansas 40-17
370 4 331 4 0 2022 Auburn 39-33
336 3 335 3 0 2022 Ole Miss 42-22

These are the 11 SEC wins in the Leach Era. There isn't a good example of the offense sucking and the defense bailing us out for the win. In 8 of the 11 wins, we had at least 400 yards and 3 TDs, so even when the defense played well too, you can't say they bailed us out.
The last 2 games, 2022 wins over Auburn and Ole Miss, seem really similar on paper, which is interesting because they don't seem that way in my memory. I remember thinking the offense and defense were both flat against Auburn and that they both played pretty well against Ole Miss (except when Will Rogers tried to run it in himself and failed).
They were both awful against Vanderbilt in 2020 and we were incredibly lucky to win.


None of this is intended as a knock on Arnett. He did well as Leach's DC. I'm just defending Leach's offense.

Kinda hard to compare O and D in isolation. It takes both to win. The big Aub comeback win the O and D were not good in first half. Reverse in second. If D doesn't step up, we lose. If O doesn't produce we lose.
ae
Our D was bend don't break a lot. They gave up yards but stiffened up in the red zone. Also in today's O world, I think holding a team to 300-400 would be average vs 35-40 years ago.

[R2Dawg]

Hell, right off the top of my head I can name one. The last game Leach coached. The Egg Bowl. The defense kept kiffins offense in check most of the game. The offense had opportunities to put the game away and couldn't seal the deal. Offense handed ole miss the ball and said here ya go. Defense stopped them for the win.

There were multiple games that the defense kept it close enough despite the offense not being able to do shit. Then the offense scored just enough to win. Only because the defense kept the score low and close.

Yep and a lot of games (lot of losses) where D played their tails off but got tired for being on field all the time because O couldn't get a first down. Then in garbage time the O put up points and yards on the 2nd and 3rd team. This happened almost every loss. Those don't show up in just run the numbers. Our O was terrible in almost half the games.

[Homedawg]

Let's see if this formats correctly:

Offensive Yards
Offensive TDs
Defensive Yards Allowed
Defensive TDs Allowed
Defensive TDs Scored


632 5 425 4 0 2020 LSU 44-34
208 3 478 2 0 2020 Vanderbilt 24-17
446 4 342 4 2 2020 Missouri 51-32
438 3 297 2 0 2021 Texas A&M 26-22
522 6 155 0 0 2021 Vanderbilt 45-6
438 4 216 1 0 2021 Kentucky 31-17
487 6 483 5 0 2021 Auburn 43-34
473 4 388 3 1 2022 Texas A&M 42-24
568 6 483 2 0 2022 Arkansas 40-17
370 4 331 4 0 2022 Auburn 39-33
336 3 335 3 0 2022 Ole Miss 42-22

These are the 11 SEC wins in the Leach Era. There isn't a good example of the offense sucking and the defense bailing us out for the win. In 8 of the 11 wins, we had at least 400 yards and 3 TDs, so even when the defense played well too, you can't say they bailed us out.
The last 2 games, 2022 wins over Auburn and Ole Miss, seem really similar on paper, which is interesting because they don't seem that way in my memory. I remember thinking the offense and defense were both flat against Auburn and that they both played pretty well against Ole Miss (except when Will Rogers tried to run it in himself and failed).
They were both awful against Vanderbilt in 2020 and we were incredibly lucky to win.


None of this is intended as a knock on Arnett. He did well as Leach's DC. I'm just defending Leach's offense.

Egg bowl 22 you have the score wrong and if you don't include turnovers both way it's not valid. Bc the ole miss game of 22 the offense kept giving the ball away and the defense kept stopping them. Might work out even. But that's important.

[Quaoarsking]

Egg bowl 22 you have the score wrong and if you don't include turnovers both way it's not valid. Bc the ole miss game of 22 the offense kept giving the ball away and the defense kept stopping them. Might work out even. But that's important.

Fixed the Egg Bowl score, which I transposed.

Anyway, I'll reiterate my purpose isn't to argue that the offense is the reason we won those games or to bash Arnett, it's merely to demonstrate that "Hell, when we were getting 3 yard passes on offense, his defense was winning games." is not an accurate description of the Leach Era.

[Todd4State]

Ah the 2022 Egg Bowl where the defense gave up a 99 yard TD drive to end the game but they get credit for winning the game. Thanks Randy Charlton.

[Todd4State]

I just reviewed the 11 SEC games we won under Leach and couldn't find a single example of a time where the offense was bad and the defense won the game for us.

There were examples where the offense and defense were both pretty good (not taking anything away from Arnett) and 1 game where they were both bad and we somehow won anyway (2020 Vanderbilt), but I don't think your description of "Arnett's defense winning games for Leach" stands up to scrutiny.

It doesn't stand up to scrutiny. But Arnett wears cowboy boots, cusses, and has a farm so MSU fans like him.

I remember the Georgia game in 2020 where we had a lead with an extremely outmanned team and Mr bail Leach out zero blitzed and got burned costing us the game and what would have been a historic win for MSU. So he probably lost about as many as he "saved" for us.

Your research points out why I think he is overrated though. I always felt that way about him even before Leach passed away. Now, he wasn't bad but he wasn't Joe Lee Dunn good either.

Truth is Leach really wanted Rocky Long and the two of them together would have been special. Long wanted to stay out west and retire and Long suggested Leach hire Arnett.

[KOdawg1]

If we had hired a different coach to replace Leach, the Air Raid club wouldn't hate Arnett like they do.

Arnett the DC is good. Arnett the HC obviously was not. It takes a certain level of common sense and reasoning to comprehend that, but I guess some can't do it.

[Todd4State]

If we had hired a different coach to replace Leach, the Air Raid club wouldn't hate Arnett like they do.

Arnett the DC is good. Arnett the HC obviously was not. It takes a certain level of common sense and reasoning to comprehend that, but I guess some can't do it.

Because it's the same person.

It's like saying Charles Manson the cult leader was bad but as a car salesman he was good. And yeah that's an extreme example but I couldn't think of a great analogy.

[msstate7]

Because it's the same person.

It's like saying Charles Manson the cult leader was bad but as a car salesman he was good. And yeah that's an extreme example but I couldn't think of a great analogy.

There are countless examples of failed head coaches in all levels of football that return to being successful coods.

[KOdawg1]

Because it's the same person.

It's like saying Charles Manson the cult leader was bad but as a car salesman he was good. And yeah that's an extreme example but I couldn't think of a great analogy.
But he's not doing the same job.

It's getting childish on your part. Let it go.

And you're right, that was a stupid analogy.

[Tater]

Arnett was a solid DC here when he had an offense that ball controlled and protected the D way better than most realized here. We have a tendency to think "run = ball control" and "pass = not" but that's just not true in today's modern football.

Leach was pass heavy and controlled TOP. In 22 we had a 26% rushing rate and a 7th ranked time of possession.

Lebby is run heavy - 55% last year yet 131st in TOP.

Arnett is going from being more protected to less protected by his offense here. Too many people think it's the other way around.

[Pancho]

Too many 3 and outs will doom the D over an entire game

[MBDawg601]

If we had known all of these things ahead of time, everyone would have picked us to win 7 or 8 games:

Arizona State is not an elite team - they will finish unranked with no votes.
Tennessee is not an elite team - they will finish unranked with no votes.
Florida is not a good team at all - they will finish 4-8.
Texas is not an elite team - they will finish ranked, but not in the playoffs and nowhere close to their #1 ranking preseason. They, and in particular Arch, will underachieve all season.
Arkansas is not on the upswing with Petrino as OC. In fact they will finish 2-10.
Missouri is not a good team - they will finish unranked (but with a few votes)
Northern Illinois is actually one of the worst teams in the MAC, not a contender - I probably shouldn't include this because we should beat any MAC team anyway, but we all came into 2025 remembering what the MAC did to us in 2024....


Sorry to rehash arguments from 2 months ago, but our schedule was so much easier than we all thought it would be, and we failed to seize the opportunity that presented. I wonder what we'll be like in a year where we get really unlucky with the schedule.

In that same sense you could say that the SEC as a whole, was not as good as projected. Those teams still have A LOT more talent than we do. We are still in rebuild mode and getting transfers to come in is going to cost a lot more than we have been willing to spend, apparently.

Don?t get me wrong, I think Lebby is in way over his head and will be fired at the end of this come season. I think that would have been the case with 99% of football coaches though, given our situation and how far behind on the NIL game we are.

The only coach we could have hired that would have better results would be Cignetti.

[Quaoarsking]

I can think of 3 big reasons to think Arnett 2.0 at DC might not be as good as Arnett 1.0:
When Arnett was last DC, Leach was the head coach and had really high standards for conditioning and discipline. Arnett didn't have to set those standards when Leach was setting them. Arnett didn't set as high of a standard as HC, and neither has Lebby, so who is going to setting them in 2026? I'm sure Arnett's scheming will still be good, but I am concerned that he won't get as much out of his players without a HC who is setting the table for him like Leach did.
Arnett is returning to a job that fired him (in an extremely embarrassing way - it's unheard of for a HC to not even get a full season before losing his job for on-field performance) to work for the guy who replaced him and hasn't been any better. There's just no way there's no resentment there. Maybe Arnett is professional enough that it won't make any difference, but that's going to be really hard for anyone in that situation. Now imagine that we start out 2-3 or even 1-4. You know Arnett's going to be thinking "wow, this got me fired in year 1, and this joker's still here in year 3??"
The incident in Las Vegas raises questions about his mental health and stability. Although it's been, what, a year without any relapse? It will probably be OK, but I can't blame anyone for seeing a red flag there.


Maybe Arnett overcomes all 3 of these obstacles and it's all fine. But you can't just act like it's a given that our defense will automatically return to 2020-22 levels without acknowledging there are different circumstances.

[Quaoarsking]

Don?t get me wrong, I think Lebby is in way over his head and will be fired at the end of this come season. I think that would have been the case with 99% of football coaches though, given our situation and how far behind on the NIL game we are.

The only coach we could have hired that would have better results would be Cignetti.

Disagree. An average head coach doesn't get blown out by Toledo. An average head coach at least splits the Florida and Texas games this past year. A good head coach beats them both and also Tennessee.

If we'd hired someone like Jimbo Fisher, or just any proven G5 head coach, he might never take us to the playoffs, but he wouldn't be blowing wins like Lebby has.

I reject the notion that we'd so hopelessly behind in football, that it was actually good for Lebby that he got us in position to have his coaching blow games, because most coaches would have just gotten blown out every game.

[Todd4State]

But he's not doing the same job.

It's getting childish on your part. Let it go.

And you're right, that was a stupid analogy.

Having class is childish?

[Todd4State]

There are countless examples of failed head coaches in all levels of football that return to being successful coods.

How many at the school they were fired from after they lied to a bunch of players at said school?

[KOdawg1]

Having class is childish?

I guess we're calling being a bitter bitch "having class" now.

[MBDawg601]

Disagree. An average head coach doesn't get blown out by Toledo. An average head coach at least splits the Florida and Texas games this past year. A good head coach beats them both and also Tennessee.

If we'd hired someone like Jimbo Fisher, or just any proven G5 head coach, he might never take us to the playoffs, but he wouldn't be blowing wins like Lebby has.

I reject the notion that we'd so hopelessly behind in football, that it was actually good for Lebby that he got us in position to have his coaching blow games, because most coaches would have just gotten blown out every game.

You think we have the talent of both Florida and Texas? His coaching decisions likely costs us the games, but a lot of the reason we were in those games were also his play calling/scheme.

Jimbo Fisher?? He had top talent in the country for most of his career at A&M, with unlimited resources and could not get it done. Come on man..

I do not normally like arguing "what ifs" or "should have beens", but based on our roster and talent deficiency we finished right where we were projected and nearly squeaked out a few, we had no business being in. To act like this past season was a complete failure and we underachieved, is kind of ridiculous. We did not underachieve this past season, by any stretch of the imagination.

[MBDawg601]

How many at the school they were fired from after they lied to a bunch of players at said school?

And how many with the last name Arnett? How specific do you want to be?

Let the season play out, the dude can coach defense and is probably less dramatic about the situation than you are.

[Quaoarsking]

I do not normally like arguing "what ifs" or "should have beens", but based on our roster and talent deficiency we finished right where we were projected and nearly squeaked out a few, we had no business being in. To act like this past season was a complete failure and we underachieved, is kind of ridiculous. We did not underachieve this past season, by any stretch of the imagination.

If this past season wasn't a complete failure, why is fan morale at an all-time low, with a near-unanimous expectation (even among his few remaining supporters) that he'll be fired by November?

It's because everyone knows that our schedule was way softer than we thought it would be, and we should have gone 7-5 or 8-4, and that we would have with a decent coach.

[Tater]

If this past season wasn't a complete failure, why is fan morale at an all-time low, with a near-unanimous expectation (even among his few remaining supporters) that he'll be fired by November?

It's because everyone knows that our schedule was way softer than we thought it would be, and we should have gone 7-5 or 8-4, and that we would have with a decent coach.

cause it's march and none of the positive folks are really focused on football. they're enjoying the positivity from baseball. the negative folks are focused on basketball / football and not getting engagement from the positive fanbase. give it till august and someone like me will talk us into a 9+ win season.

[Hot Rock]

There has to be more to this story. This makes no sense.

2022 - Played in 4 games as a Freshman; Redshirt
2023 - Played in 10 games as a Redshirt Freshman
2024 - Played in 11 games as a Redshirt Sophomore
2025 - Played in 12 games as a Redshirt Junior
2026 - Set to be at MSU for Redshirt Senior year and ruled ineligible????

There is more to it. He played DII which doesn't have a 4 game redshirt rule and those rules applied. No one knew this, even UAB had him listed as a RSJR last year.

[Tater]

There is more to it. He played DII which doesn't have a 4 game redshirt rule and those rules applied. No one knew this, even UAB had him listed as a RSJR last year.

Seems like the easiest thing to beat. But hey we recruited a pushover so I don't think we want to fight for him to play for us if he won't fight for himself.

[Coach34]

None of this will be settled until Thanksgiving. We were a helluva lot better in 2025 than most of us thought we would be. I didnt think we would win 4 games.

If the OL can be better than shitty and our QB can develop some more- we will have a chance to win 5-6 again. We def upgraded talent on D

[Quaoarsking]

We were a helluva lot better in 2025 than most of us thought we would be. I didnt think we would win 4 games.
D

You would have if you had known that Arizona State, Northern Illinois, Tennessee, Florida, Texas, Arkansas, and Missouri were all overrated (some of them way overrated) preseason.

[Todd4State]

I guess we're calling being a bitter bitch "having class" now.

Speaking of being a bitch- I just saw that Arnett lost one of the top DT in the state from Choctaw County to Ole Miss.

Let me guess- it's Dave Emerick's fault.**

[smootness]

Because it's the same person.

It's like saying Charles Manson the cult leader was bad but as a car salesman he was good. And yeah that's an extreme example but I couldn't think of a great analogy.

You really cannot process how someone could be bad as the HC of an entire program but very good when focused only on coaching defense?

And Charles Manson was phenomenal as a cult leader. One of the best ever.

[Coach34]

You would have if you had known that Arizona State, Northern Illinois, Tennessee, Florida, Texas, Arkansas, and Missouri were all overrated (some of them way overrated) preseason.

We were still way better than I expected us to be. Just the fact we competed with Tenn and Texas shows that

[PGHBulldogBG]

We were still way better than I expected us to be. Just the fact we competed with Tenn and Texas shows that

I agree I didn’t think those games would be close. I am still 50/50 on Lebby. He was getting 3 years no matter what but we will see what he can do. If we can get 6 wins with this schedule and one of them being ole Miss or 7-5 without beating them he will stay

[THE Bruce Dickinson]

Don't worry about it Todd. We still have baseball.

By the way Penn State had 16,000+ for wrestling that 500 people watched on TV, but they still cant beat Ohio State in football.

Baseball will save the University*

[KOdawg1]

Speaking of being a bitch- I just saw that Arnett lost one of the top DT in the state from Choctaw County to Ole Miss.

Let me guess- it's Dave Emerick's fault.**

It's a miss and I'm not hyping him up as this elite, perfect, infallible DC.

I'm not going to agree that he's one of the most overrated DC's in MSU history though. I'll leave saying stupid shit because I'm a literal air raid cultist (funny since you made a Manson analogy earlier) to you.

[maroonmania]

It's a miss and I'm not hyping him up as this elite, perfect, infallible DC.

I'm not going to agree that he's one of the most overrated DC's in MSU history though. I'll leave saying stupid shit because I'm a literal air raid cultist (funny since you made a Manson analogy earlier) to you.

I'm not ready to proclaim Arnett as a top 3 or 4 DC in the SEC but he's exponentially better than Coleman Hutzler ever thought about being.

[Coach34]

I'm not ready to proclaim Arnett as a top 3 or 4 DC in the SEC but he's exponentially better than Coleman Hutzler ever thought about being.

It takes having talent. We upgraded talent on D this offseason. Our D will be middle of the SEC in 2026- no matter who the DC is. It's hard to hate on Hutzler for having below average talent in the trenches and being slow at LB

[maroonmania]

It takes having talent. We upgraded talent on D this offseason. Our D will be middle of the SEC in 2026- no matter who the DC is. It's hard to hate on Hutzler for having below average talent in the trenches and being slow at LB

Not hard for me, he had NO qualifications to be an SEC DC. At least MacIntyre and Rhoads helped bring some adult supervision to the defensive situation this past season.

[Todd4State]

You really cannot process how someone could be bad as the HC of an entire program but very good when focused only on coaching defense?

And Charles Manson was phenomenal as a cult leader. One of the best ever.

I can't process that coach being hired back for a coordinator position at the school that fired him. Especially given the fact that he completely lost the team and is part of the reason for the situation we are in now.

Sure, there are coaches that failed as head coaches and succeeded at coordinator. Not many for the school that fired them if I had to guess.

[Coach34]

Not hard for me, he had NO qualifications to be an SEC DC. At least MacIntyre and Rhoads helped bring some adult supervision to the defensive situation this past season.

Well you can call Nick Saban a dumbass if you want- but Saban recommended him

[MBDawg601]

If this past season wasn't a complete failure, why is fan morale at an all-time low, with a near-unanimous expectation (even among his few remaining supporters) that he'll be fired by November?

It's because everyone knows that our schedule was way softer than we thought it would be, and we should have gone 7-5 or 8-4, and that we would have with a decent coach.

I went to 3 games last season and I can tell you that fan morale is not at an all time low. The stadium was rocking. We lost steam at the end of the season, but the Tennessee game atmosphere was one of the best I have been to in quite some time, even if they did bring 30k Tennessee fans to Starkville.

I am not as negative as some, we have never been consistently good. We have glimpses of what we could be, followed by 3-4 years of disappointment. It just so happens to be worse this time around, because OM is coming out of their most historic run ever.

Lebby is a first time HC, making first time HC mistakes. I do not think anyone expected him to come in and call a perfect game or make veteran HC decisions. This is what we signed up for, in hopes of him learning on the fly. In my opinion, he is much improved and made some staffing changes this off season... We will see if it works. If it doesn't, we will move on to our next first time HC. The doom and gloom, or sky is falling shit doesn't help anything. Our fans always find something to bitch about and nothing to be positive about.

[R2Dawg]

I went to 3 games last season and I can tell you that fan morale is not at an all time low. The stadium was rocking. We lost steam at the end of the season, but the Tennessee game atmosphere was one of the best I have been to in quite some time, even if they did bring 30k Tennessee fans to Starkville.

I am not as negative as some, we have never been consistently good. We have glimpses of what we could be, followed by 3-4 years of disappointment. It just so happens to be worse this time around, because OM is coming out of their most historic run ever.

Lebby is a first time HC, making first time HC mistakes. I do not think anyone expected him to come in and call a perfect game or make veteran HC decisions. This is what we signed up for, in hopes of him learning on the fly. In my opinion, he is much improved and made some staffing changes this off season... We will see if it works. If it doesn't, we will move on to our next first time HC. The doom and gloom, or sky is falling shit doesn't help anything. Our fans always find something to bitch about and nothing to be positive about.

I was at almost every game (did not go to Eggbowl). Az St was awesome. Tenn was great till end. TX was great till end. UGA was OK till game started. The fans are ready to get on board we just need to do something positive.

[R2Dawg]

I can't process that coach being hired back for a coordinator position at the school that fired him. Especially given the fact that he completely lost the team and is part of the reason for the situation we are in now.

Sure, there are coaches that failed as head coaches and succeeded at coordinator. Not many for the school that fired them if I had to guess.

Hope CZA succeeds but this is very odd to say the least. He is familiar with MSU and can hit the ground running in a year where Lebby knows he has to on D so I get that.

[Quaoarsking]

I went to 3 games last season and I can tell you that fan morale is not at an all time low. The stadium was rocking. We lost steam at the end of the season, but the Tennessee game atmosphere was one of the best I have been to in quite some time, even if they did bring 30k Tennessee fans to Starkville.


Well ... yeah. Fan morale was as good as it's been since Dak was here late in the 4th quarter against Tennessee.

It was what came after that (Lebby blowing games, then ending on 4 straight blowouts) that crashed the morale.

[Quaoarsking]

I was at almost every game (did not go to Eggbowl). Az St was awesome. Tenn was great till end. TX was great till end. UGA was OK till game started. The fans are ready to get on board we just need to do something positive.

I agree with this. If Lebby starts out 4-0 this fall, DWS will be rocking for Alabama. We're all desperate to buy in.

[Todd4State]

Hope CZA succeeds but this is very odd to say the least. He is familiar with MSU and can hit the ground running in a year where Lebby knows he has to on D so I get that.

The vibe feels a lot like Felker's last year.

[StarkVegasSteve]

Hope CZA succeeds but this is very odd to say the least. He is familiar with MSU and can hit the ground running in a year where Lebby knows he has to on D so I get that.

It's odd but so is college football. Lebby knows he can leave the defense to Arnett and worry about the offense, specifically the line, and ST. Arnett works well with that type of defensive autonomy, see Mike Leach.

The defense will be improved. It'll be up to Lebby to have an inproved OL to let his generational QB develop in the offense. That's what his job will hinge on. The line isn't fixed and we're looking for a new coach the Saturday after Thanksgiving.

[R2Dawg]

The vibe feels a lot like Felker's last year.

Ouch, I was a senior that year but if we follow that up with a Jackie type hire; I'm good with that.

Jackie's first year was just what the doctor ordered.

[Quaoarsking]

Ouch, I was a senior that year but if we follow that up with a Jackie type hire; I'm good with that.

Jackie's first year was just what the doctor ordered.

The closest parallel to Jackie is ... J**** F*****?

[Todd4State]

Ouch, I was a senior that year but if we follow that up with a Jackie type hire; I'm good with that.

Jackie's first year was just what the doctor ordered.

We definitely need a Sherrill type hire. Lebby isn't it. He's just not. I hope I'm wrong. I just don't think he can coach and manage a roster. He's too aggressive and has a poor feel for in game decisions and context of the situation.

Dan Mullen isn't it either.

[smootness]

I can't process that coach being hired back for a coordinator position at the school that fired him. Especially given the fact that he completely lost the team and is part of the reason for the situation we are in now.

Sure, there are coaches that failed as head coaches and succeeded at coordinator. Not many for the school that fired them if I had to guess.

What does it matter that he was fired here as HC?

Not hiring him as DC simply because he was fired here as HC would be exactly the kind of move you are against here. Hiring him anyway because he is a good DC is actually the opposite of the kind of lazy MSU move you claim it to be.

[KOdawg1]

What does it matter that he was fired here as HC?

Not hiring him as DC simply because he was fired here as HC would be exactly the kind of move you are against here. Hiring him anyway because he is a good DC is actually the opposite of the kind of lazy MSU move you claim it to be.

Bingo.

[R2Dawg]

We definitely need a Sherrill type hire. Lebby isn't it. He's just not. I hope I'm wrong. I just don't think he can coach and manage a roster. He's too aggressive and has a poor feel for in game decisions and context of the situation.

Dan Mullen isn't it either.

Yeah I don't like retread either; it never works out. Just like the movie, the sequels are never good.

[Coach34]

Retreads workout a lot

Kiffin at Mississippi
Cristobal at Miami
Sherrill at State
Leach at State
Saban at LSU
Nutt at Mississippi
Spurrier at SC
Cutcliffe at Duke

[Quaoarsking]

Retreads workout a lot

Kiffin at Mississippi
Cristobal at Miami
Sherrill at State
Leach at State
Saban at LSU
Nutt at Mississippi
Spurrier at SC
Cutcliffe at Duke

So you thinking Jimbo or Brian Kelly for us in 2027?

[Todd4State]

What does it matter that he was fired here as HC?

Not hiring him as DC simply because he was fired here as HC would be exactly the kind of move you are against here. Hiring him anyway because he is a good DC is actually the opposite of the kind of lazy MSU move you claim it to be.

Because he was part of what put our program in the situation it's in. Let's not act like he was the only good DC option out there either. Go find the next Manny Diaz or Geoff Collins. Why not promote MacIntyre or Rhoads?

[KOdawg1]

"He said he was going to keep my lord and savior, Mike Leach's offense when he took over but he lied, and for that reason alone, I'm going to let my personal and female-like feelings cloud my judgement and distance me from any reasoning."

If we want to sum it up and stop all the hem-hawing.

[Todd4State]

"He said he was going to keep my lord and savior, Mike Leach's offense when he took over but he lied, and for that reason alone, I'm going to let my personal and female-like feelings cloud my judgement and distance me from any reasoning."

If we want to sum it up and stop all the hem-hawing.

It's a lot deeper than that. He allowed the boosters to get way too involved and allowed the wrong people to have too much influence in the program. MSU can say those people are in check now- and I believe that. But bringing Arnett back makes us vulnerable to that happening again. I'm talking about people who tried to get Leach fired before he took care of it. Same thing could potentially happen to Lebby which is why he was really dumb to bring him back. The connection may be in check- but there is the possibility it could be open again at some point.

And then when they got control and did things their way and none of it worked they blamed everyone else but themselves.

So yeah, I don't want anyone associated with that group anywhere near MSU football.

[KOdawg1]

It's a lot deeper than that. He allowed the boosters to get way too involved and allowed the wrong people to have too much influence in the program. MSU can say those people are in check now- and I believe that. But bringing Arnett back makes us vulnerable to that happening again. I'm talking about people who tried to get Leach fired before he took care of it. Same thing could potentially happen to Lebby which is why he was really dumb to bring him back. The connection may be in check- but there is the possibility it could be open again at some point.

And then when they got control and did things their way and none of it worked they blamed everyone else but themselves.

So yeah, I don't want anyone associated with that group anywhere near MSU football.

Yeah, I'll take things that aren't true for $2000, Alex.

[StarkVegasSteve]

Yeah, I'll take things that aren't true for $2000, Alex.

I mean it's true but it's a little like when we went from Templeton to Byrne. The boosters that had always called the shots, had their influence, and gotten what they wanted were told to cut the checks and shut up. Selmon has brought a lot of that back and quelled the boosters that did all that stuff. A lot of those guys moved to baseball and are now kind of being shut out there as well by the new staff.

[KOdawg1]

I mean it's true but it's a little like when we went from Templeton to Byrne. The boosters that had always called the shots, had their influence, and gotten what they wanted were told to cut the checks and shut up. Selmon has brought a lot of that back and quelled the boosters that did all that stuff. A lot of those guys moved to baseball and are now kind of being shut out there as well by the new staff.

No, I'm saying the part about Arnett "letting that happen again" as a defensive coordinator isn't true.

But even the other stuff isn't THE reason we're where we're at. As is the case with pretty much anything, several things can be true at once. Arnett wasn't ready to be a HC. He shouldn't have completely shifted the offense in year 1. We probably had some boosters out of line. But Leach deserves some blame too. His recruiting was quite abysmal.

[StarkVegasSteve]

No, I'm saying the part about Arnett "letting that happen again" as a defensive coordinator isn't true.

But even the other stuff isn't THE reason we're where we're at. As is the case with pretty much anything, several things can be true at once. Arnett wasn't ready to be a HC. He shouldn't have completely shifted the offense in year 1. We probably had some boosters out of line. But Leach deserves some blame too. His recruiting was quite abysmal.

Yep all of what you said is true. It was a litany of things that caused our downfall in such short order: Inability by the previous administration to embrace NIL, Leach's unwillingness to play a major part in recruiting at 21 of the 22 positions, Dave Emerick, Matt Dudek, Leach dying, Arnett not being ready to be a HC, overzealous boosters, shifting offensive philosophies in a spring, etc.

I've never understood the people that act like it was just one thing that went wrong that caused the spiral. It was a ton of decisions from July 1, 2021 to November 13, 2023

[DownwardDawg]

Yep all of what you said is true. It was a litany of things that caused our downfall in such short order: Inability by the previous administration to embrace NIL, Leach's unwillingness to play a major part in recruiting at 21 of the 22 positions, Dave Emerick, Matt Dudek, Leach dying, Arnett not being ready to be a HC, overzealous boosters, shifting offensive philosophies in a spring, etc.

I've never understood the people that act like it was just one thing that went wrong that caused the spiral. It was a ton of decisions from July 1, 2021 to November 13, 2023

This is the correct answer.

[Really Clark?]

Yep all of what you said is true. It was a litany of things that caused our downfall in such short order: Inability by the previous administration to embrace NIL, Leach's unwillingness to play a major part in recruiting at 21 of the 22 positions, Dave Emerick, Matt Dudek, Leach dying, Arnett not being ready to be a HC, overzealous boosters, shifting offensive philosophies in a spring, etc.

I've never understood the people that act like it was just one thing that went wrong that caused the spiral. It was a ton of decisions from July 1, 2021 to November 13, 2023

All that is true. Arnett's biggest downfall though was he stepped out of his skin and tried to be someone he's not. The players saw that he wasn't the same guy and they didn't believe in what he was doing. No belief leads to poor team chemistry and low execution success. Even the change in offense could have been overcome and been better had he stayed true to who he was as a person and coach. Arnett the DC would not have done some of things he did as a HC. Now if that was self inflicted or bad advice or both, I don't know the extent of all of that.

[Goldendawg]

Look at our history of hiring assistants to be HC in our decades-long on-the-job training program, no matter who our incompetent "Powers to Be" were. The only successes in my 60 plus years of fandom have been Bob Tyler and Dan Mullen and yes, I count JoMo in the failure category. We get what we ask for and refuse to pay for. Those who repeat the failures of past history are doomed to repeat them or so they say.

To those of you who think morale is ok, you must not have bought season tickets for about 59 consecutive years, or for many years at all, as my long-suffering, but true maroon family just did last month. I know a lot of State fans in NE MS and don't know a single fan who has any hope for 2026 or in over his head Lebby, again.

I dare say there are many active and retired football coaches on this board, and most of y'all could have gone 7-18 and 1-15 in the last two years, found a decent LT in the portal, and developed players other than WR's. Y'all could probably have been just as successful for far less than $4 million per year. We have made many unprepared assistants millionaires and Lebby is continuing our poor trend.

[Coach34]

Look at our history of hiring assistants to be HC in our decades-long on-the-job training program, no matter who our incompetent "Powers to Be" were. The only successes in my 60 plus years of fandom have been Bob Tyler and Dan Mullen and yes, I count JoMo in the failure category. We get what we ask for and refuse to pay for. Those who repeat the failures of past history are doomed to repeat them or so they say.

To those of you who think morale is ok, have not bought season tickets for about 59 consecutive years, as my long-suffering, but true maroon family just did last month. Iknow a lot of State fans in NE MS and don't know a single fan who has any hope for 2026 or in over his head Lebby, again.

Alot of times a coordinator is our best option to hire. It's not being cheap. Not many current HC's will not take our job. We had a guy turn us down to go to Houston last hiring cycle. Now we could get a Jimbo or some other out of work HC. Hiring Leach was an abnormality as he wanted to closer to the Keys and see what he could do against SEC defenses before it was over. But hiring him ended up turning into a program killer as we are living and trying to get out of.

[Goldendawg]

Alot of times a coordinator is our best option to hire. It's not being cheap. Not many current HC's will not take our job. We had a guy turn us down to go to Houston last hiring cycle. Now we could get a Jimbo or some other out of work HC. Hiring Leach was an abnormality as he wanted to closer to the Keys and see what he could do against SEC defenses before it was over. But hiring him ended up turning into a program killer as we are living and trying to get out of.


As I said, this has been going on for decades. Look at Shira's record, and heck, we promoted him to AD after one of the worst winning % in State history. Felker, Croom, Arnett, and even before and the list goes on.

You and I don't agree on all opinions, but no doubt in my mind you could go 7-18 and 1-15 and maybe look more competent doing it. Bet you know where a couple of LT prospects were that had eligibility left also.

Monday morning QB, but we might be much more successful with an experienced, winning HC from a lower division than all these on-the-job training assistants in my lifetime. Saw my first game at age 8 in person at Scott Field in 1963, 10-10 against OM. Not many bright spots, except under Jackie and Leach, both former HCs.

As I said, Tyler and Mullen were exceptions to our awful hiring practices no matter who has been in charge. Rant over, and I will again sit until the end of every home game in 2026 as years pass.

[Coach34]

It will all come out in the wash this Fall. There still a chance to get another lineman this summer

[Todd4State]

Yeah, I'll take things that aren't true for $2000, Alex.


I mean it's true but it's a little like when we went from Templeton to Byrne. The boosters that had always called the shots, had their influence, and gotten what they wanted were told to cut the checks and shut up. Selmon has brought a lot of that back and quelled the boosters that did all that stuff. A lot of those guys moved to baseball and are now kind of being shut out there as well by the new staff.

Does this mean I get 2000 dollars?**

[Choctaw Dawg]

Speaking of being a bitch- I just saw that Arnett lost one of the top DT in the state from Choctaw County to Ole Miss.

Let me guess- it's Dave Emerick's fault.**

That commitment won't stick as of now, He is chasing Texas/Texas A&M type payday. Highly doubt he stays in state.

[smootness]

Retreads workout a lot

Kiffin at Mississippi
Cristobal at Miami
Sherrill at State
Leach at State
Saban at LSU
Nutt at Mississippi
Spurrier at SC
Cutcliffe at Duke

Your point is valid. But Cristobal, Saban, and Leach were absolutely not retreads. And Spurrier does not really fit either.

[Coach34]

Your point is valid. But Cristobal, Saban, and Leach were absolutely not retreads. And Spurrier does not really fit either.

Cristobal got fired at FIU and had to be an asst for 5 years before getting another HC job.
Saban was a loser NFL coach that jumped at Bama
Leach finished ranked 7 times in 21 seasons. Only 2 times the last 11. Good coach but was never wanted at a top notch program

[R2Dawg]

Retreads workout a lot

Kiffin at Mississippi
Cristobal at Miami
Sherrill at State
Leach at State
Saban at LSU
Nutt at Mississippi
Spurrier at SC
Cutcliffe at Duke

Forgot one of biggest retreads - Coach O at LSU.

It absolutely does work out a good bit.

[Homedawg]

It's a lot deeper than that. He allowed the boosters to get way too involved and allowed the wrong people to have too much influence in the program. MSU can say those people are in check now- and I believe that. But bringing Arnett back makes us vulnerable to that happening again. I'm talking about people who tried to get Leach fired before he took care of it. Same thing could potentially happen to Lebby which is why he was really dumb to bring him back. The connection may be in check- but there is the possibility it could be open again at some point.

And then when they got control and did things their way and none of it worked they blamed everyone else but themselves.

So yeah, I don't want anyone associated with that group anywhere near MSU football.

You believe everything you read. Come on Todd.

[Coach34]

Forgot one of biggest retreads - Coach O at LSU.

It absolutely does work out a good bit.

good catch

[StarkVegasSteve]

Retreads workout a lot

Kiffin at Mississippi
Cristobal at Miami
Sherrill at State
Leach at State
Saban at LSU
Nutt at Mississippi
Spurrier at SC
Cutcliffe at Duke

Retreads hit at about the same rate they miss. For every Lane Kiffin and David Cutcliffe there's a Kevin Sumlin and Tom Herman. You honestly just have to be desperate and willing enough to take the chance with a retread. You have to understand that the chances you crash and burn are equal to the chances you succeed at a high level. Ole Miss was desperate and willing enough to take that chance with Kiffin. We were desperate and willing enough to take that chance with Jackie. Both of those risks were wildly successful. Conversely, Auburn was desperate and willing enough to take the chance with Freeze. Kansas was desperate and willing enough to take the chance with Les Miles. Both of those were unmitigated disasters.

[Pancho]

Where we getting another LT from this summer?

[StarkVegasSteve]

Where we getting another LT from this summer?

One option is some of the guys still left in the portal. The other option is a kid just un-enrolls at one school and enrolls at another. He doesn't have to use the portal for that.

[R2Dawg]

Retreads hit at about the same rate they miss. For every Lane Kiffin and David Cutcliffe there's a Kevin Sumlin and Tom Herman. You honestly just have to be desperate and willing enough to take the chance with a retread. You have to understand that the chances you crash and burn are equal to the chances you succeed at a high level. Ole Miss was desperate and willing enough to take that chance with Kiffin. We were desperate and willing enough to take that chance with Jackie. Both of those risks were wildly successful. Conversely, Auburn was desperate and willing enough to take the chance with Freeze. Kansas was desperate and willing enough to take the chance with Les Miles. Both of those were unmitigated disasters.

Yeah the retread success is not just about that either. The school, the fan base, leadership, talent, and other stuff has to be right.

Auburn was a mess when they hired Freeze. I'm not sure any retread would have worked there. Auburn is still a mess. Any other retread but Saban would have likely been a disaster at Bama but all the other stuff really lined up well at Bama at that time too.

[smootness]

Cristobal got fired at FIU and had to be an asst for 5 years before getting another HC job.
Saban was a loser NFL coach that jumped at Bama
Leach finished ranked 7 times in 21 seasons. Only 2 times the last 11. Good coach but was never wanted at a top notch program

You posted Saban at LSU. But even at Bama, every school in the country would have still taken him then, he was not at all a retread.

Cristobal at Miami was coming off a successful stint at Oregon. At Oregon, he is closer to a retread.

And Leach was not a retread, he was known as one of the best coaches in the country. The reason no top programs would go after him is because of his scheme and all the other stuff he brings. He is not who a Texas or Bama hires. But he had success everywhere. Not close to a retread.

[Coach34]

But he had success everywhere. Not close to a retread.

Depends how you evaluate success. 7 top 25 finishes in 21 seasons. 2 in the last 11. We would consider that below average even in our program. Mullen has finished 6 times in the Top 25 in only 14 seasons. Had he won the bowl game this past season he would be 7 for 14. Leach was not one of the best coaches in the country. Leach was a niche pony act with good quotes. Mullen has been a way better coach yet many of you crow about him being average.

[PGHBulldogBG]

I was never a huge Leach fan like some but he sure did a lot better here than the bozos we hired before and after him this century outside Mullen

[smootness]

Depends how you evaluate success. 7 top 25 finishes in 21 seasons. 2 in the last 11. We would consider that below average even in our program. Mullen has finished 6 times in the Top 25 in only 14 seasons. Had he won the bowl game this past season he would be 7 for 14. Leach was not one of the best coaches in the country. Leach was a niche pony act with good quotes. Mullen has been a way better coach yet many of you crow about him being average.

Yes, let us completely ignore where they coached. Good job.

Leach was recognized by pretty much everyone as an outstanding coach. Still is. Sorry.

And I have no clue why you are bringing up Mullen. I am a huge Mullen fan. You are the one who always wanted him gone.

[Really Clark?]

The College Football Hall of Fame adjusted their win percentage criteria to make sure they get Mike Leach in as soon as he's eligible in 2027. That's a pretty good definition of success.

[R2Dawg]

The College Football Hall of Fame adjusted their win percentage criteria to make sure they get Mike Leach in as soon as he's eligible in 2027. That's a pretty good definition of success.

So they got to work the system to get him in?

Leach had a great story. Gimic O to help no name teams have some success. I think jury was still out on success in a league that actually played D.

[Coach34]

So they got to work the system to get him in?

Leach had a great story. Gimic O to help no name teams have some success. I think jury was still out on success in a league that actually played D.

Yes- they are lowering the bar so Mr. Airbone can get in.

[Really Clark?]

So they got to work the system to get him in?

Leach had a great story. Gimic O to help no name teams have some success. I think jury was still out on success in a league that actually played D.

They lowered the win percentage from 60% to 59.5% because the coaches petitioned for it.

[MBDawg601]

I can’t tell if people are trolling or if they actually think Leach was not a great coach.

[CaptainObvious]

I can’t tell if people are trolling or if they actually think Leach was not a great coach.

Amazing isn?t it. Still kicking the man who turned the program around quickly from the Mo?head debacle while we hired ?another? damned Coordinator who gets on the job training pay by Good Ol? MSU while leading his charges to 1 SEC win in 16 games.

[StarkVegasSteve]

I can’t tell if people are trolling or if they actually think Leach was not a great coach.

I don't think anyone is saying he wasn't a good coach, at least not that I've seen. I think some people push back on he was this elite program builder and consistent winner at a championship level. He was really good at getting teams out of the cellar and back to respectability and he ran an offense that tailored to programs that weren't able to get elite skill position players. But he wasn't Saban. He wasn't Dabo. He wasn't Kirby. His teams were between 7-9 wins every year with an outlier year where they'd win 11 or lose 8. For Mississippi State that was incredible because that's the type of program we've always been. But that wouldn't have flown at a blue blood program.

[Quaoarsking]

They lowered the win percentage from 60% to 59.5% because the coaches petitioned for it.

It makes sense. He didn't get the 3 gimme wins in 2020 because the SEC didn't allow non-conference games. He would have been over 60% most likely without that extenuating circumstance

[Really Clark?]

It makes sense. He didn't get the 3 gimme wins in 2020 because the SEC didn't allow non-conference games. He would have been over 60% most likely without that extenuating circumstance

Well I think the bowl game we won after his passing was more prominent on their minds. That would have put him at 60% win percentage for his career.

[Tater]

Well I think the bowl game we won after his passing was more prominent on their minds. That would have put him at 60% win percentage for his career.

can't tell me he didn't coach that game and lead us to a win.

i mean... how many other games have you seen a team not ever lead until the last 15 seconds. and then also win by two scores. covered the spread. ****in insane.

[smootness]

I don't think anyone is saying he wasn't a good coach, at least not that I've seen. I think some people push back on he was this elite program builder and consistent winner at a championship level. He was really good at getting teams out of the cellar and back to respectability and he ran an offense that tailored to programs that weren't able to get elite skill position players. But he wasn't Saban. He wasn't Dabo. He wasn't Kirby. His teams were between 7-9 wins every year with an outlier year where they'd win 11 or lose 8. For Mississippi State that was incredible because that's the type of program we've always been. But that wouldn't have flown at a blue blood program.

In this thread, he was called a retread, a niche pony act with a gimic O.

No, he was not Saban. Literally no one ever claimed he was. No one said he was an elite program builder or consistent championship level coach. But can we please not pretend he was nothing special? He was very good.

[Coach34]

In this thread, he was called a retread, a niche pony act with a gimic O.

No, he was not Saban. Literally no one ever claimed he was. No one said he was an elite program builder or consistent championship level coach. But can we please not pretend he was nothing special? He was very good.

Leach- 7 Top 25 finishes in 21 seasons

Tommy Bowden had 5 Top 25's in 12 seasons
Terry Bowden had 5 in 15 D-1 seasons
RC Slocum had 10 in 14 seasons
Butch Davis had 6 in 15 seasons
Lame has 5 in 14 seasons and was cheated out of one when he went 11-3
Houston Nutt- 5 in 14 seasons of D-1

These guys were basically the same or better than Leach- are they HOF also?

[Todd4State]

I don't think anyone is saying he wasn't a good coach, at least not that I've seen. I think some people push back on he was this elite program builder and consistent winner at a championship level. He was really good at getting teams out of the cellar and back to respectability and he ran an offense that tailored to programs that weren't able to get elite skill position players. But he wasn't Saban. He wasn't Dabo. He wasn't Kirby. His teams were between 7-9 wins every year with an outlier year where they'd win 11 or lose 8. For Mississippi State that was incredible because that's the type of program we've always been. But that wouldn't have flown at a blue blood program.

The thing about Leach was he was never anywhere that had the resources that an Alabama, LSU, Tennessee etc. had. I suspect if he did coach somewhere like that he would have won at a pretty high level.

But at the same time coaching somewhere like Georgia would not have been very Mike Leach either.

[Todd4State]

Leach- 7 Top 25 finishes in 21 seasons

Tommy Bowden had 5 Top 25's in 12 seasons
Terry Bowden had 5 in 15 D-1 seasons
RC Slocum had 10 in 14 seasons
Butch Davis had 6 in 15 seasons
Lame has 5 in 14 seasons and was cheated out of one when he went 11-3
Houston Nutt- 5 in 14 seasons of D-1

These guys were basically the same or better than Leach- are they HOF also?

Did they influence people in the NFL in terms of scheme? Heck- the 2007 Patriots offense was allegedly highly influenced by the Air Raid.

It's the same thing as Don Coryell being in the NFL Hall of Fame even though he never made it to a Super Bowl.

[Coach34]

Did they influence people in the NFL in terms of scheme? Heck- the 2007 Patriots offense was allegedly highly influenced by the Air Raid.

It's the same thing as Don Coryell being in the NFL Hall of Fame even though he never made it to a Super Bowl.

Chuck Knox never made a SB and he is in the HOF also. There will be others- like a Marvin Lewis. George Allen made 1 SB and lost and is in.

Again- he was a good coach but he was no better than a Tommy Bowden or RC Slocum

[StarkVegasSteve]

Leach- 7 Top 25 finishes in 21 seasons

Tommy Bowden had 5 Top 25's in 12 seasons
Terry Bowden had 5 in 15 D-1 seasons
RC Slocum had 10 in 14 seasons
Butch Davis had 6 in 15 seasons
Lame has 5 in 14 seasons and was cheated out of one when he went 11-3
Houston Nutt- 5 in 14 seasons of D-1

These guys were basically the same or better than Leach- are they HOF also?

Only Tommy Bowden was at a program similar to ours. You're cherry picking coaches who were coaching at schools with much more funding and buy in.

Terry Bowden(Auburn)
RC Slocum(A&M)
Butch Davis(Miami)-When Butch was at Miami and FIU he actually had worse results than Leach.
Kiffin(USC and OM)
Nutt (Arkansas and OM)

Outside of Clemson, and maybe OM, we are a tier or two below any of those other programs. What Mike did here was what he did everywhere else he went. Rebuilt quickly and got back to respectability. He was probably never going to win big at the schools he was at because he was never going to be at a traditional power. I still think Mike Leach at Tennessee would have set the world on fire. I think they would've been really good. Fulmer should never be allowed back in Neyland for screwing that up. Hell, it took a former Leach QB to restore them.

[Todd4State]

Chuck Knox never made a SB and he is in the HOF also. There will be others- like a Marvin Lewis. George Allen made 1 SB and lost and is in.

Again- he was a good coach but he was no better than a Tommy Bowden or RC Slocum

If you polled football fans in general and ask who was the better coach- they would choose Leach over Tommy Bowden and Slocum in a landslide.

And you just proved my point by mentioning Knox.

[Todd4State]

Only Tommy Bowden was at a program similar to ours. You're cherry picking coaches who were coaching at schools with much more funding and buy in.

Terry Bowden(Auburn)
RC Slocum(A&M)
Butch Davis(Miami)-When Butch was at Miami and FIU he actually had worse results than Leach.
Kiffin(USC and OM)
Nutt (Arkansas and OM)

Outside of Clemson, and maybe OM, we are a tier or two below any of those other programs. What Mike did here was what he did everywhere else he went. Rebuilt quickly and got back to respectability. He was probably never going to win big at the schools he was at because he was never going to be at a traditional power. I still think Mike Leach at Tennessee would have set the world on fire. I think they would've been really good. Fulmer should never be allowed back in Neyland for screwing that up. Hell, it took a former Leach QB to restore them.

Exactly.

[Coach34]

If you polled football fans in general and ask who was the better coach- they would choose Leach over Tommy Bowden and Slocum in a landslide.

Not any football fan with knowledge. Slocum has been in the college football HOF since 2012. Won 4 conference championships and a 123-47 coaching record.

Leach finished ranked 7 times in 21 seasons and his biggest win was in the Gator Bowl. Never won a conference title of any type and had fewer 10 win seasons than your boy Dan Mullen.

[Tater]

Not any football fan with knowledge. Slocum has been in the college football HOF since 2012. Won 4 conference championships and a 123-47 coaching record.

Leach finished ranked 7 times in 21 seasons and his biggest win was in the Gator Bowl. Never won a conference title of any type and had fewer 10 win seasons than your boy Dan Mullen.

lol.

lmao even

[Todd4State]

Not any football fan with knowledge. Slocum has been in the college football HOF since 2012. Won 4 conference championships and a 123-47 coaching record.

Leach finished ranked 7 times in 21 seasons and his biggest win was in the Gator Bowl. Never won a conference title of any type and had fewer 10 win seasons than your boy Dan Mullen.

I don't have a problem with Slocum being in the Hall of Fame. Again- Slocum was at A&M and Dan was at Florida. Leach had almost as many ranked wins as Dan did in 1/3 of the time.

[confucius say]

I don't think anyone is saying he wasn't a good coach, at least not that I've seen. I think some people push back on he was this elite program builder and consistent winner at a championship level. He was really good at getting teams out of the cellar and back to respectability and he ran an offense that tailored to programs that weren't able to get elite skill position players. But he wasn't Saban. He wasn't Dabo. He wasn't Kirby. His teams were between 7-9 wins every year with an outlier year where they'd win 11 or lose 8. For Mississippi State that was incredible because that's the type of program we've always been. But that wouldn't have flown at a blue blood program.

Saban was a 7 win coach when he wasn't at Alabama and lsu.

Leach was a good coach. Not elite. The reason he should be in the hall of fame is not purely success but also because his concepts have permeated all levels of football.

[Bothrops]

It's really hard for me to get excited about anything concerning football right now. Maybe impossible. This program could be headed back the the 1950s and 60s, permanently.