What does a good team cost?

[Pinto]

There is a 5 star in state kid who?s asking price is just over 1 million. So if you apply that to a two deep roster that is roughly 45 million for a competitive team.

What is the price tag for a playoff team? I?d say a minimum of 30 million with 45 million being a guarantee. Granted this is indicative of getting the right value for the price.

Lastly, talking about alumni- we have 150,000 living alumni. If we could get $100 a month from each alum, that would equal 180 million a year. Take 80 and give to nil/athletics and 100 to academics/endowment. State can be a powerhouse. We just have leadership and drive to unite us and get us moving together.

[Cowbeller]

Look at Texas Tech. They literally bought a contending team in 1 offseason. Cost them around $30 million. SEC probably a bit more expensive but sounds like we are in the wheelhouse.

As far as giving goes we need 1 big guy to come out and be the face of NIL. Fanbase will follow once they know we have a starting ground, right or wrong thats how the schools that excel in NIL have done it

[Coach34]

$25MM just to get to 8 wins

[HoopsDawg]

$25MM just to get to 8 wins

Isn?t our revenue share allocation close to 20 million. I realize scholarships count toward revenue share. That?s been an argument of mine against funding 105 scholarships. We should only fund about 75-80. Focus the money on a smaller roster. We HAVE to do things differently.

[Coach34]

Isn?t our revenue share allocation close to 20 million. I realize scholarships count toward revenue share. That?s been an argument of mine against funding 105 scholarships. We should only fund about 75-80. Focus the money on a smaller roster. We HAVE to do things differently.

Rev share gives us $15MM along with the rest of the SEC. That helps vs Arizona St and Houston- but it doesnt help vs SEC schools. SEC will drop another 20MM on top of the Rev-Share. They will build the best rosters possible to keep winning

[HoopsDawg]

Rev share gives us $15MM along with the rest of the SEC. That helps vs Arizona St and Houston- but it doesnt help vs SEC schools. SEC will drop another 20MM on top of the Rev-Share. They will build the best rosters possible to keep winning

So we have to come up with an extra 10 million every single year in NIL to compete. Thats rough.

Helluva job by Lebby this year making us competitive.

[Activated Alpha]

Finding a single wealthy Saudi Arabia prince who?s willing to marry a 220lb hairy dude. I don?t want to say I know a guy, but I know a guy

[parabrave]

Ok everybody i suggest you go watch moneyball because msu and alot if other schools are the oakland As and thats just reality. Plus get a good coach and a good scouting dept that can find and develop that talent. Mississippi schools font have big oil, big tech or we wont raid childrens hospitals. We just lawyers and some rich pro players

[BorneDawg]

Ok everybody i suggest you go watch moneyball because msu and alot if other schools are the oakland As and thats just reality. Plus get a good coach and a good scouting dept that can find and develop that talent. Mississippi schools font have big oil, big tech or we wont raid childrens hospitals. We just lawyers and some rich pro players

Great example para! This is our problem

[DEDawg]

25M gets you 8-4/9-3

[DEDawg]

Ok everybody i suggest you go watch moneyball because msu and alot if other schools are the oakland As and thats just reality. Plus get a good coach and a good scouting dept that can find and develop that talent. Mississippi schools font have big oil, big tech or we wont raid childrens hospitals. We just lawyers and some rich pro players

develop talent? why would thoes players stay at MSU if we aren't going to pay them? Moneyball does not work in the current landscape

[Goldendawg]

develop talent? why would thoes players stay at MSU if we aren't going to pay them? Moneyball does not work in the current landscape

This 100%. They get paid, win or lose. My son and I saw a player and a coach arguing very loudly about the player's NIL at the Sprint Mart here in Starkville beside the pumps, (player was gassing up his Dodge Challenger BTW, LOL, second only to the Charger in NIL popularity****). The coach saw that they were drawing attention and rolled up his window and stepped behind the driver's side door while saying, "Do your job and we will talk about your NIL". The game has changed.

Players deserve to be paid and the corrupt NCAA and HC multi-million salaries and even bigger buyouts when they fail has helped bring this on. This Pandora's Box will never be closed.

Even the NFL has salary caps and contracts. This will bring stability to college sports. I no longer watch the NFL unless Dak is playing and I hated the Cowboys before his becoming their starting QB.

We will be attending our last game of the 2025 season as season ticket holders and I still don't know the names of about half of our players by their numbers.

[CaptainObvious]

$50 million! FIFTY!

[BorneDawg]

develop talent? why would thoes players stay at MSU if we aren't going to pay them? Moneyball does not work in the current landscape

I think his point is that we will never be able to pay for the high end players so we have to find the cheaper under the radar players that the big dogs over looked and develop and refine them while paying a lesser amount than what the polished one cost...

[HoopsDawg]

I think his point is that we will never be able to pay for the high end players so we have to find the cheaper under the radar players that the big dogs over looked and develop and refine them while paying a lesser amount than what the polished one cost...

We did a good job of that this offseason but you?re going to have to pony up for a LT and for a legit Dlinemen bc there aren?t many of those guys walking the earth.

[Coach34]

We did a good job of that this offseason but you?re going to have to pony up for a LT and for a legit Dlinemen bc there aren?t many of those guys walking the earth.

This. Winning and losing is decided in the trenches

Can you run the ball when you need to?
Can you pass protect?
Can you slow down the run?
Can you pressure the other QB to help your Secondary?

The answers to those questions right there tell you how good your team is

[Coursesuper]

This. Winning and losing is decided in the trenches

Can you run the ball when you need to?
Can you pass protect?
Can you slow down the run?
Can you pressure the other QB to help your Secondary?

The answers to those questions right there tell you how good your team is

Don’t bring that common sense business around here. I’m not gonna let you get away with that.

[R2Dawg]

There is a 5 star in state kid who?s asking price is just over 1 million. So if you apply that to a two deep roster that is roughly 45 million for a competitive team.

What is the price tag for a playoff team? I?d say a minimum of 30 million with 45 million being a guarantee. Granted this is indicative of getting the right value for the price.

Lastly, talking about alumni- we have 150,000 living alumni. If we could get $100 a month from each alum, that would equal 180 million a year. Take 80 and give to nil/athletics and 100 to academics/endowment. State can be a powerhouse. We just have leadership and drive to unite us and get us moving together.

Assume we lose egg, we should have finished 8-4. I'd say that is a good team - what did we spend for that?

Now a NC or great or elite team that is another question?

[BorneDawg]

We did a good job of that this offseason but you?re going to have to pony up for a LT and for a legit Dlinemen bc there aren?t many of those guys walking the earth.

I agree with that we need to step up for a couple big players

[Bothrops]

$25MM just to get to 8 wins

$25 million to get to 6 wins for us.

[Bothrops]

There is a 5 star in state kid who?s asking price is just over 1 million. So if you apply that to a two deep roster that is roughly 45 million for a competitive team.

What is the price tag for a playoff team? I?d say a minimum of 30 million with 45 million being a guarantee. Granted this is indicative of getting the right value for the price.

Lastly, talking about alumni- we have 150,000 living alumni. If we could get $100 a month from each alum, that would equal 180 million a year. Take 80 and give to nil/athletics and 100 to academics/endowment. State can be a powerhouse. We just have leadership and drive to unite us and get us moving together.

A good team here would probably take $30 million for 2026.

[CaptainObvious]

Assume we lose egg, we should have finished 8-4. I'd say that is a good team - what did we spend for that?

Now a NC or great or elite team that is another question?

What? No. State spent what they spent on a 5-7 team if they lose to Ole Miss. There is no should have. To play that mind game, you have to say State also should have been 3-9 losing also to ASU and Arkansas.

[parabrave]

Question for Future NIL. When will the schools, NCAA, start making these kids sign 2 year contracts with buyout clauses? They are going to have to do something because the current format will devour NCAA football and sports where a the outlandish money spending will eventually burst the balloon and people will tire of crappy products and the cost and go find other crap to do on Sat.

[Todd4State]

Question for Future NIL. When will the schools, NCAA, start making these kids sign 2 year contracts with buyout clauses? They are going to have to do something because the current format will devour NCAA football and sports where a the outlandish money spending will eventually burst the balloon and people will tire of crappy products and the cost and go find other crap to do on Sat.

Quite a bit of risk there is a player doesn't pan out. Imagine if we gave Kroemehoek a two year deal for a million a year.

[parabrave]

Quite a bit of risk there is a player doesn't pan out. Imagine if we gave Kroemehoek a two year deal for a million a year.

Hey Burrow sucked his 1st year. Then O got Brady to run an offense designed around Burrow. Even though paying a backup a mil a year to sit on the bench doesn't even go in the NFL. You never know QBs need time to learn systems. Having a 2 year contract cools their jets and lets them learn and adjust to the facets of the game.

[Cowbeller]

Quite a bit of risk there is a player doesn't pan out. Imagine if we gave Kroemehoek a two year deal for a million a year.

Ill take this over getting a stud who leaves after a year bc the price just went up

[maroonmania]

Yes, we need better players but if we are going to be serious about our football program our biggest issue right now is we need a major upgrade in our coaching staff. So what does a competent SEC coaching staff cost? And primarily talking about our assistants coaches even moreso than our HC. The OM staff is so much better than ours its a joke.

[Lord McBuckethead]

This. Winning and losing is decided in the trenches

Can you run the ball when you need to?
Can you pass protect?
Can you slow down the run?
Can you pressure the other QB to help your Secondary?

The answers to those questions right there tell you how good your team is

Yep. That is precisely our problem, we can't do any of those.

[Bothrops]

25M gets you 8-4/9-3

I disagree

[BlackSailsDawg]

All I know is what I am told, be it accurate is to be seen. We have the money to buy the OL and DL in the portal. We will take JUCOs on the cheap for depth (remember they still have 4 years unless a court rules other wise). For me, it also means a QB from the portal and I know we do not like to hear that because of Taylor. But Lebby's job is to bring in the best chances to win, and he will need a QB if for nothing else but depth.

Having said that, we will still be behind in spending. Ark is now looking at 40 Million. Think That alumni from Vandy isn't going to get involved now?

What our fan base has to come to terms with is this. You can't blame coach who does not have the players to compete. You can't say their recruiting sucks and it's all their fault, because it's not about that any more. It's about payments. Until we reach that level, we should already know what to expect. A year where we overachieve, and years where we don't. Should we reach that point and have the players, and we under perform, then you can look at coaches. Example, LSU. UF... TEXAS...

[Harrydawg]

Yes, we need better players but if we are going to be serious about our football program our biggest issue right now is we need a major upgrade in our coaching staff. So what does a competent SEC coaching staff cost? And primarily talking about our assistants coaches even moreso than our HC. The OM staff is so much better than ours its a joke.

The money that UM spends sure helps those coaches look good. It?s about the Jimmy?s and the Joe?s more than the X?s and O?s

[parabrave]

The money that UM spends sure helps those coaches look good. It?s about the Jimmy?s and the Joe?s more than the X?s and O?s

Look at the money Texas spends and their return on their investment. Not very good. Got to have the right coach make good evaluations and puts the right persons on the field. Lane Kiffen says hello. I mean Trinidad who would've taken a chance on him and then stuck with him when your high prized up and comer got well/.

[R2Dawg]

What? No. State spent what they spent on a 5-7 team if they lose to Ole Miss. There is no should have. To play that mind game, you have to say State also should have been 3-9 losing also to ASU and Arkansas.

Sorry you are wrong. It is about context. We had the talent to win 8 games period. Lebby and poor coaching cost us 3 wins. NIL and buying players is about buying talent and we talented 8 wins on the field. Now if you are talking more money for better coaching that is a valid argument.

I watched MSU outplay ASU, UT, Tex and UF but for coaching. Talent wasn't the issue. End of year is about just tired of crap and time to look out for #1.

[R2Dawg]

The money that UM spends sure helps those coaches look good. It?s about the Jimmy?s and the Joe?s more than the X?s and O?s

You got to have both and either one can make the other look good. It ain't just get one side of it and you'll win. Moorhead lost 5 games with a team that should have been in the playoffs. MSU still the only team with #1 D in nation not to make playoffs and that record will stand forever now with 12 teams.

[DEDawg]

I disagree
How so? Add that to rev sharing and we are about 90% of the rest of the P4 and probably 7-10 range in the SEC. That guys you 4 OOC wins and 4 SEC wins.

[DEDawg]

Sorry you are wrong. It is about context. We had the talent to win 8 games period. Lebby and poor coaching cost us 3 wins. NIL and buying players is about buying talent and we talented 8 wins on the field. Now if you are talking more money for better coaching that is a valid argument.

I watched MSU outplay ASU, UT, Tex and UF but for coaching. Talent wasn't the issue. End of year is about just tired of crap and time to look out for #1.

This is a horrible argument. Lebby could have a completely different play book, strategy, sub package, etc. if he had the money for the players he wants.

We probably spent more than Kentucky this year and that is it. We are doing more, with less.

[R2Dawg]

This is a horrible argument. Lebby could have a completely different play book, strategy, sub package, etc. if he had the money for the players he wants.

We probably spent more than Kentucky this year and that is it. We are doing more, with less.

No that is a lame argument. Give me an NFL team and Micky Mouse can coach us to wins. Did you watch us play UT, Tex etc? We had talent to compete and win. It was 38-21 in 4th quarter with TX. We didn't lose that game due to talent. Tenn scored two D TDs. Our no talent D stuck Tenn worse than anyone all year.

It takes players and coaches to win. More money is what many think solves all problems in todays world, well it don't. You do have to have money but it ain't as simple as spend more and win. TAMU spent more than anyone and didn't win until they got good coaching to go with it. One could argue TAMU is less talented than previous years yet the win this year.

[R2Dawg]

This is a horrible argument. Lebby could have a completely different play book, strategy, sub package, etc. if he had the money for the players he wants.

We probably spent more than Kentucky this year and that is it. We are doing more, with less.

Lebby ran the playbook he wanted and he played the QB he wanted, period.

[Maroon Glasses]

No that is a lame argument. Give me an NFL team and Micky Mouse can coach us to wins. Did you watch us play UT, Tex etc? We had talent to compete and win. It was 38-21 in 4th quarter with TX. We didn't lose that game due to talent. Tenn scored two D TDs. Our no talent D stuck Tenn worse than anyone all year.

It takes players and coaches to win. More money is what many think solves all problems in todays world, well it don't. You do have to have money but it ain't as simple as spend more and win. TAMU spent more than anyone and didn't win until they got good coaching to go with it. One could argue TAMU is less talented than previous years yet the win this year.

Agree with you that money doesn't necessarily buy you championships. Could you out talent a team and win every now and then? Yes. But in the SEC everybody is talented. Coaching matters. We have seen teams spend ridiculous amounts of money and win 7-9 games a year. When we beat A&M in '22.. that was the most talented recruiting class in history. Now granted, they were young. But all of their recruiting classes out wayyyyyyy better than ours and we had their number until recently when they hired a new coach. You have to have good coaching in this league AND the talent for that coach to be able to win.

This isn't a knock to Lebby, btw. I've spoke my opinion on him.

[The Federalist Engineer]

LSU probably 7-5 but maybe 8-4 ... spent 20M to 22M

Just a few guys gave 13M of the 22M. The Raising Canes guy was big for this.

Let's start frying and salting chicken tenders.

I think this NIL era will pass, no need to take money from our pockets. The 50 biggest NIL guys are going to meet in a Colorado Mountain retreat and collectively cut donations by 80%.

[DEDawg]

No that is a lame argument. Give me an NFL team and Micky Mouse can coach us to wins. Did you watch us play UT, Tex etc? We had talent to compete and win. It was 38-21 in 4th quarter with TX. We didn't lose that game due to talent. Tenn scored two D TDs. Our no talent D stuck Tenn worse than anyone all year.

It takes players and coaches to win. More money is what many think solves all problems in todays world, well it don't. You do have to have money but it ain't as simple as spend more and win. TAMU spent more than anyone and didn't win until they got good coaching to go with it. One could argue TAMU is less talented than previous years yet the win this year.

You are completely wrong and stuck in early 2000s NCAAs. No reason to argue back and forth, I won't change your mind. We have a 4-6 win roster talent wise. Guess where we are

[R2Dawg]

You are completely wrong and stuck in early 2000s NCAAs. No reason to argue back and forth, I won't change your mind. We have a 4-6 win roster talent wise. Guess where we are

Agree to disagree but one FG make each game and we have 3 more wins. By your logic we are now a talented team. So just pay 1 mill to a kicker and we got 3 more wins. No difference in the rest of the players but 3 more wins means all the rest are all of a sudden more talented.

Just really flawed logic. Watch those games, we matched and exceeded the other teams talent all game till the last plays; that says talent is pretty even. Use that logic then we are way more talented than ASU who we beat who is ranked top 25.

Coaching does win and lose games and is fact. So many examples all over the place.

I understand MSU fans getting jaded in thinking but this is all just common sense.

[MoreCowbell]

A good team here would probably take $30 million for 2026.

This. We have to overpay to get them to Starkville and it has to be significant

[MoreCowbell]

Look at the money Texas spends and their return on their investment. Not very good. Got to have the right coach make good evaluations and puts the right persons on the field. Lane Kiffen says hello. I mean Trinidad who would've taken a chance on him and then stuck with him when your high prized up and comer got well/.

That is because Texas paid 7 million for a Dll QB and Ole Miss got Heisman candidate off the clearance rack

[MoreCowbell]

Average NIL price tag for a Power 4 starter at each position-

QB 2mil
RB 300k-500k
OT- 700k-1mil
OG- 500k-700k
C- 400k-600k

WR1- 400k-700k+ (WR biggest variance)
WR2- 300k-400k

DE- 700k-1mil
DT- 500k-700k
LB- 400k-600k
CB- 400k-700k
S- 300k-500k

That is just the average starter. Of course there is gonna be bonafide stars that make way more. A starting QB is going to be at least 2 million.

We likely paid around 8-10 million for our starting 22 and 7-8 million on rest of roster/depth.

[DEDawg]

Average NIL price tag for a Power 4 starter at each position-

QB 2mil
RB 300k-500k
OT- 700k-1mil
OG- 500k-700k
C- 400k-600k

WR1- 400k-700k+ (WR biggest variance)
WR2- 300k-400k

DE- 700k-1mil
DT- 500k-700k
LB- 400k-600k
CB- 400k-700k
S- 300k-500k

That is just the average starter. Of course there is gonna be bonafide stars that make way more. A starting QB is going to be at least 2 million.

We likely paid around 8-10 million for our starting 22 and 7-8 million on rest of roster/depth.

We paid 600k for our QB. Can?t imagine we have a single DL/DE making 700k. And people want to argue with me in here it is a coaching issue. Yeah. Ok.

[DEDawg]

Agree to disagree but one FG make each game and we have 3 more wins. By your logic we are now a talented team. So just pay 1 mill to a kicker and we got 3 more wins. No difference in the rest of the players but 3 more wins means all the rest are all of a sudden more talented.

Just really flawed logic. Watch those games, we matched and exceeded the other teams talent all game till the last plays; that says talent is pretty even. Use that logic then we are way more talented than ASU who we beat who is ranked top 25.

Coaching does win and lose games and is fact. So many examples all over the place.

I understand MSU fans getting jaded in thinking but this is all just common sense.

Your argument doesn't make any sense in the context of the point I'm trying to make so don't apply that to what I am saying and say I have flawed logic. I don't think you are following my point. Has anyone considered in those 3 close losses we actually were close to winning because of coaching and we are OVER achieving? Have you considered we "matched and exceeded" the other teams talent not because we had better players, but because we out coached them and put our players in a position to succeed? I just think it's an insane point by our fans to say back in July we look at this roster and say "4-5 wins would be a great year by our coaching staff", but then have revisionist history in Nov and say "we have 5 wins but were really close in 3 other losses therefore the coaching is bad and suddenly it's the roster that is fine." Makes no sense.

I can promise you we spent less on offense than every team behind us on this list but 1
https://www.espn.com/college-football/stats/team/_/group/8

[Dawgology]

A GOOD team costs about $20 mil. With good coaching that’ll get you to about 7-9 wins.

[Dawgology]

We paid 600k for our QB. Can?t imagine we have a single DL/DE making 700k. And people want to argue with me in here it is a coaching issue. Yeah. Ok.

Both things can be true. It is absolutely possible to not spend enough and have some coaching issues.

[vv83]

Both things can be true. It is absolutely possible to not spend enough and have some coaching issues.

We do have coaching issues. Lebby is learning as a first time HC, our DL coach is washed, our DC is questionable. I just don't believe that is the main issue, overall coaching is good. Roster talent is not there for SEC.

[confucius say]

This. Winning and losing is decided in the trenches

Can you run the ball when you need to?
Can you pass protect?
Can you slow down the run?
Can you pressure the other QB to help your Secondary?

The answers to those questions right there tell you how good your team is

The answer to all 4 of those is no, lol
Wonder we have 5 wins.

[confucius say]

What? No. State spent what they spent on a 5-7 team if they lose to Ole Miss. There is no should have. To play that mind game, you have to say State also should have been 3-9 losing also to ASU and Arkansas.

Correct. We've played 5 games decided at the buzzer. We are 2-3 in those.

[confucius say]

Agree to disagree but one FG make each game and we have 3 more wins. By your logic we are now a talented team. So just pay 1 mill to a kicker and we got 3 more wins. No difference in the rest of the players but 3 more wins means all the rest are all of a sudden more talented.

Just really flawed logic. Watch those games, we matched and exceeded the other teams talent all game till the last plays; that says talent is pretty even. Use that logic then we are way more talented than ASU who we beat who is ranked top 25.

Coaching does win and lose games and is fact. So many examples all over the place.

I understand MSU fans getting jaded in thinking but this is all just common sense.

"That says talent is pretty even"

Ok. And in those games we are 2-3. You seem to be arguing that we should win every game where talent is "pretty even."

But no, we are not as talented as TN, FLA, or Texas. The nfl draft will make that clear.

[99jc]

I swear this board is full of dumbasses. You don?t need 30 million to get a decent team you need a good head coach that can develop players and have a decent offensive and defensive coordinator. We could have been 8-3 with a shitty team if our head coach played the right QB and didn?t make stupid play calls at critical times. Some of you need to quit overthinking the process and get a life.

[DEDawg]

I swear this board is full of dumbasses. You don?t need 30 million to get a decent team you need a good head coach that can develop players and have a decent offensive and defensive coordinator. We could have been 8-3 with a shitty team if our head coach played the right QB and didn?t make stupid play calls at critical times. Some of you need to quit overthinking the process and get a life.

How much developing do you think a coach can do in 10 months? You do not get it.

[parabrave]

I swear this board is full of dumbasses. You don?t need 30 million to get a decent team you need a good head coach that can develop players and have a decent offensive and defensive coordinator. We could have been 8-3 with a shitty team if our head coach played the right QB and didn?t make stupid play calls at critical times. Some of you need to quit overthinking the process and get a life.

Yep ole Sark is a great return on the Horns investment.

[MoreCowbell]

We paid 600k for our QB. Can?t imagine we have a single DL/DE making 700k. And people want to argue with me in here it is a coaching issue. Yeah. Ok.

I would be very surprised if Shapen is only getting 600k. If that is the case that our QB is only getting 600k at an SEC school then no wonder we got stuck with Shapen. Lebby has done an amazing job then.

[KOdawg1]

You don?t need 30 million to get a decent team you need a good head coach that can develop players and have a decent offensive and defensive coordinator.

10 years ago, you'd be absolutely correct.

Today? Couldn't be more wrong.

[DEDawg]

10 years ago, you'd be absolutely correct.

Today? Couldn't be more wrong.

Our fans are always 10 years behind. Our administration usually is too, but Selmon seems to get it and is changing this. Hopefully the rest of us catch up.

[DEDawg]

I would be very surprised if Shapen is only getting 600k. If that is the case that our QB is only getting 600k at an SEC school then no wonder we got stuck with Shapen. Lebby has done an amazing job then.

I am not in the know but that is the number I've heard. Even if it's 800k we are bargain bin shopping. Lebby has done an amazing job, 2-10 to 5-6 is a great jump.

[Todd4State]

Our fans are always 10 years behind. Our administration usually is too, but Selmon seems to get it and is changing this. Hopefully the rest of us catch up.

This is the truth.

[Todd4State]

Average NIL price tag for a Power 4 starter at each position-

QB 2mil
RB 300k-500k
OT- 700k-1mil
OG- 500k-700k
C- 400k-600k

WR1- 400k-700k+ (WR biggest variance)
WR2- 300k-400k

DE- 700k-1mil
DT- 500k-700k
LB- 400k-600k
CB- 400k-700k
S- 300k-500k

That is just the average starter. Of course there is gonna be bonafide stars that make way more. A starting QB is going to be at least 2 million.

We likely paid around 8-10 million for our starting 22 and 7-8 million on rest of roster/depth.

If my math is right we need to be at about 17 million just for our starters. I went high end on most everything and actually made QB 2.5 and added in another running back and two more WR's.