Shapen listed as probable today

[Coach34]

which means he is starting Saturday. Bet accordingly

[EdwardDrayton]

MILDEC

[KOdawg1]

Our chances of winning went down

[viverlibre]

Our chances of winning went down

If the Ark D line is as good as everyone says, I concur.

[ZedFedder]

Yeah, Lebby said straight up if he was healthy then he would start.

[Todd4State]

Meltdown in 10....9....

[StarkVegasSteve]

Our best option, like C34 has said since Saturday, is that they both play. Which they will. We need Shapen to play well. We need quick hitters from him to open up the deep shots. That then opens up the run game.

I also would not be surprised to see Kamario have a designed pass in the game, or given two plays and depending on where the D is, go with the designed pass.

[Todd4State]

Our best option, like C34 has said since Saturday, is that they both play. Which they will. We need Shapen to play well. We need quick hitters from him to open up the deep shots. That then opens up the run game.

I also would not be surprised to see Kamario have a designed pass in the game, or given two plays and depending on where the D is, go with the designed pass.

I agree. I think we should play Shapen about 65% of the time and KT 35%. Start Shapen. Let Kamario sit back and learn and do so without the pressure of being the starter now. When Shapen starts to wig out or get hurt, that's when we switch it up and bring in KT.

Reese is also likely to play- and that makes a big difference and it will buy Shapen a little more time and it will help the running game too.

[parabrave]

And with the glaring hole at LT and Shapens tendency to hang on to the ball for 7 seconds while standing still; i see nothing but good things with him back there.

[Todd4State]

And with the glaring hole at LT and Shapens tendency to hang on to the ball for 7 seconds while standing still; i see nothing but good things with him back there.

In the last game Shapen was sacked 1 more time than KT. And by the way, Shapen has already been sacked 31 times- 6 more than he has any season of his career and we still have two games left.

Our issue isn't Shapen. It isn't him holding onto the ball too long. And it sure as hell isn't his lack of mobility. It's our offensive line absolutely sucks. And KT's lack of accuracy offsets the production from his legs relative to what Shapen gives us in terms of accuracy.

[parabrave]

Like I said with the glaring hole at LT. And he has taken some helicious blindside hits this year and one more like last weeks hit might do some serious damage.

[bulldawg28]

Like I said with the glaring hole at LT. And he has taken some helicious blindside hits this year and one more like last weeks hit might do some serious damage.

Most of those are due he doesn't step up in the pocket. He makes himself a sitting duck. I would hate to be a lineman for him.

[CoachT14]

In the last game Shapen was sacked 1 more time than KT. And by the way, Shapen has already been sacked 31 times- 6 more than he has any season of his career and we still have two games left.

Our issue isn't Shapen. It isn't him holding onto the ball too long. And it sure as hell isn't his lack of mobility. It's our offensive line absolutely sucks. And KT's lack of accuracy offsets the production from his legs relative to what Shapen gives us in terms of accuracy.

KT hasn't been sacked once. Shapen was sacked twice against UGA.

30% of the time Shapen gets pressured he gets sacked. 5th highest in the nation. Which means he absolutely sucks at feeling pressure and escaping pressure. I don't care how bad or good your OL is, if you're that bad at those two things you're going to get sacked a lot.

KT isn't inaccurate. That's just a not even close to true. You come off the bench cold and try to throw. He was fine was the game settled in.

Shapen has turned the ball over 10 times in SEC play and only accounted for 8 TDs. It's insane that anyone thinks he's anything other than a scrub that can occasionally hit a deep shot throw.

[Dawgface]

which means he is starting Saturday. Bet accordingly

My motivation to watch has been reduced.

[Bdawg]

KT hasn't been sacked once. Shapen was sacked twice against UGA.

30% of the time Shapen gets pressured he gets sacked. 5th highest in the nation. Which means he absolutely sucks at feeling pressure and escaping pressure. I don't care how bad or good your OL is, if you're that bad at those two things you're going to get sacked a lot.

KT isn't inaccurate. That's just a not even close to true. You come off the bench cold and try to throw. He was fine was the game settled in.

Shapen has turned the ball over 10 times in SEC play and only accounted for 8 TDs. It's insane that anyone thinks he's anything other than a scrub that can occasionally hit a deep shot throw.

I can’t call him a scrub but if both play and one gets hot, you got to go with the hot hand. You also have to ask yourself who gives us a better chance against that MO defense and their great pass rush against our crap OL. Maybe we get Reese back but this game just doesn’t seem to setup well for Shapen. He holds the ball too long and it doesn’t look like that is ever going to change.

[Todd4State]

KT hasn't been sacked once. Shapen was sacked twice against UGA.

30% of the time Shapen gets pressured he gets sacked. 5th highest in the nation. Which means he absolutely sucks at feeling pressure and escaping pressure. I don't care how bad or good your OL is, if you're that bad at those two things you're going to get sacked a lot.

KT isn't inaccurate. That's just a not even close to true. You come off the bench cold and try to throw. He was fine was the game settled in.

Shapen has turned the ball over 10 times in SEC play and only accounted for 8 TDs. It's insane that anyone thinks he's anything other than a scrub that can occasionally hit a deep shot throw.

Excuses, excuses, excuses...


KT is less accurate than Shapen. He just is at this point. It's 57% right now. Shapen is in the 60's. And that's with a much more limited play book. KT will surpass him when he knows where the wide receivers are going and isn't throwing the ball in the stands to no one in particular or air mailing hitch routes.

And yes, KT was sacked one time against Georgia. He also has been tackled behind the LOS several times but no one mentions that either because of some made up bullshit about how mobility makes you Superman.

[CoachT14]

Excuses, excuses, excuses...


KT is less accurate than Shapen. He just is at this point. It's 57% right now. Shapen is in the 60's. And that's with a much more limited play book. KT will surpass him when he knows where the wide receivers are going and isn't throwing the ball in the stands to no one in particular or air mailing hitch routes.

And yes, KT was sacked one time against Georgia. He also has been tackled behind the LOS several times but no one mentions that either because of some made up bullshit about how mobility makes you Superman.

KT wasn't sacked. He hasn't been sacked yet.

KT has thrown 19 passes. That number is extremely skewed.

I love how you conveniently ignored the large amount of turnovers your boy has.

Here's some stats for you, when pressured:

Shapen - 42.9% | 339 Passing Yards | 2 TDs | 4 INTs | PFF OFF: 37.2 | Pass: 42.9 | Run: 42.9 | Fumble: 24.9 | Passer Rating: 45.6

KT - 66.7% | 110 Passing Yards | 2 TDs | 0 INTs | PFF OFF: 86.7 | Pass: 75.7 | Run: 76.2 | Fumble: 65.6 | Passer Rating: 149.3

You know since our OL sucks so bad and all, maybe play the QB that can actually handle the pressure.

KT has 34 carries and 200 Yards rushing with 5 TDs.

[msstate7]

ESPN qbr rates a qb's running ability. Shapen is rated at -3.9 (122/131 qualifiers).

Since KT isn't qualified, you can't get the individual ratings that make up the total qbr. I would imagine his running ability is pretty high though considering his overall rating of 93.4. For reference, Shapen is 60.1 (65th), and sayin of Ohio state is #1 at 91.1.

[CoachT14]

ESPN qbr rates a qb's running ability. Shapen is rated at -3.9 (122/131 qualifiers).

Since KT isn't qualified, you can't get the individual ratings that make up the total qbr. I would imagine his running ability is pretty high though considering his overall rating of 93.4. For reference, Shapen is 60.1 (65th), and sayin of Ohio state is #1 at 91.1.

According to PFF Shapen's Run Grade is a 44.1 and his Fumble grade is a 42.4. He has 7 fumbles on the year.

KT on the other hand has an 86.1 Run Grade and a 77.9 Fumble grade with 0 fumbles.

[msstate7]

According to PFF Shapen's Run Grade is a 44.1 and his Fumble grade is a 42.4. He has 7 fumbles on the year.

KT on the other hand has an 86.1 Run Grade and a 77.9 Fumble grade with 0 fumbles.

Nice stats

[MoreCowbell]

Going by the last 11 games I would let Shapen play the first series then Kamario play the next 2 quarters then give Shapen the last 2 series. We would score 40.

[Coach34]

I like what Jackie did when he had 2 QB's that should play. Let the starter play the 1st 2 drives then the other go in for the 3rd drive. After 2 drives you have a pretty good idea of what the defense is doing

[TrapGame]

I am willing to bet Shapen does not play more than one quarter. He will not be 100% by any stretch and that defense is going to pin their ears back and come after him.

[shoeless joe]

the correct answer for this team at this moment is to play both. and depending on the situations and the defense you make a decision about which gives us the best chance to win. unfortunately our HC has shown over and over and over and over again that he doesn't have the skillset to have any inkling of what needs to be done when when it comes to players, play calls, etc...

if it was me, i start shapen and as soon as the O bogs down i bring in KT and roll with him until it bogs down giving him at least 2 series to work. then go from there.

i am definitely on the bandwagon of "KT needs more snaps than he's had" (before the georgia game of course). but all these stats being thrown around are dumb because of a couple of factors:

1. how many more TDs would shapen have accounted for if we didn't bring KT in inside the 5 to run it in...then of course his disciples scream that he has so many TDs
2. our O line sucks...but multiple sacks are the fault of shapen and not the line. yes they suck. but things can be done to counteract that by the QB and of course the play caller...neither do any of the things that would benefit us in this regard.

[Pancho]

does the veer and shoot have any plays to counter a 7 man in the box and the ALL come scheme?

[StarkVegasSteve]

I like what Jackie did when he had 2 QB's that should play. Let the starter play the 1st 2 drives then the other go in for the 3rd drive. After 2 drives you have a pretty good idea of what the defense is doing

This is probably the best strategy. If we don't score on the first two drives we're in trouble anyways. That also allows us 2 scripted drives in the first 3 series and we are MARKEDLY better on scripted drives because it allows us to go fast and not take time for plays to be called in to the QB.

[Coach34]

does the veer and shoot have any plays to counter a 7 man in the box and the ALL come scheme?

Well if we have any screens in the playbook besides the Now pass out wide we need to use them this week

Tunnel, TB, Screen throwback, double screen...all of them

[StarkVegasSteve]

does the veer and shoot have any plays to counter a 7 man in the box and the ALL come scheme?

It kind of depends what the D is going to do. Are they playing cover 2? Are they man up? Are the DBs bailing?

1. If they are cover 2 then you get Thompson running and hope he either out runs the safety and Blake places the ball far enough out there or you try to quickly fit it in the gap between the corner and safety.

2. If they are man then you either are going to hit Booth out of the backfield, quick slant to Brennen or Ant, or hope one of them gets over the top

3. If they are bailing I'd slip Booth into the flat or leak Seydou or West out the back door.

[MaroonFlounder]

O-Line ain't gonna cut it with Shapen in there.

This feels like a loss.

[Todd4State]

KT wasn't sacked. He hasn't been sacked yet.

KT has thrown 19 passes. That number is extremely skewed.

I love how you conveniently ignored the large amount of turnovers your boy has.

Here's some stats for you, when pressured:

Shapen - 42.9% | 339 Passing Yards | 2 TDs | 4 INTs | PFF OFF: 37.2 | Pass: 42.9 | Run: 42.9 | Fumble: 24.9 | Passer Rating: 45.6

KT - 66.7% | 110 Passing Yards | 2 TDs | 0 INTs | PFF OFF: 86.7 | Pass: 75.7 | Run: 76.2 | Fumble: 65.6 | Passer Rating: 149.3

You know since our OL sucks so bad and all, maybe play the QB that can actually handle the pressure.

KT has 34 carries and 200 Yards rushing with 5 TDs.

I love how you admit that the stats are skewed but then you use stats anyway. And yes, according to ESPN KT was sacked once. Take that up with them.

[Todd4State]

I like what Jackie did when he had 2 QB's that should play. Let the starter play the 1st 2 drives then the other go in for the 3rd drive. After 2 drives you have a pretty good idea of what the defense is doing

I hated that. I don't remember it ever working once when Jackie did it and it usually got the offense out of rhythm and resulted in a three and out.

[Todd4State]

does the veer and shoot have any plays to counter a 7 man in the box and the ALL come scheme?

That should leave at least two receivers man on man so yes, we should be able to find something even if it's a slant.

[CoachT14]

I love how you admit that the stats are skewed but then you use stats anyway. And yes, according to ESPN KT was sacked once. Take that up with them.

I love how you ignore all the statistical evidence that shows your boy is an awful QB and can only cherry pick 1 phantom sack that didn't happen and completion percentage on 19 throws despite everyone telling you that anyone who's seen KT play know he's not inaccurate in the least.

[CoachT14]

Shapen: 8 TDs in SEC play to 10 turnovers in 400 snaps.

KT: 7 TDs in SEC play to 0 turnovers in 58 snaps.

[Todd4State]

I love how you ignore all the statistical evidence that shows your boy is an awful QB and can only cherry pick 1 phantom sack that didn't happen and completion percentage on 19 throws despite everyone telling you that anyone who's seen KT play know he's not inaccurate in the least.

Accuses me of ignoring statistical evidence. Then ignores KT's 57% completion percentage including 40% against Arkansas in the game some claimed he "won". You're also ignoring multiple missed reads and some throws that were closer to fans than any of our receivers.

Now Shapen isn't "my boy". It's absolutely stupid that MSU fans try to make factions over stupid things. I have constantly said that we should play both. Lebby agrees with me. Cole Cubelic who knows a hell of a lot more about football than you also agrees with me. I want both KT and Shapen to succeed because they are MSU players and them doing well means that MSU is doing well. But I'm more objective than you. Shapen should start now unless he is hurt. KT should come in and give him a break every now and then. I get pissed off as much as anyone at Shapen when he makes mistakes he shouldn't. He still makes fewer than KT. KT has a crazy high ceiling and he is special and is going to win a lot of games for us. But he is missing reads left and right and most of his passing yards against Georgia came on one play to Thompson. Also Shapen has led us to two fourth quarter comeback wins this year. Sure, KT did his part but Shapen was the one throwing the winning TD's.

[Todd4State]

Shapen: 8 TDs in SEC play to 10 turnovers in 400 snaps.

KT: 7 TDs in SEC play to 0 turnovers in 58 snaps.

Yeah. And now many of those were because Shapen got us down to the goal line and KT ran it in or threw a 1 yard pass?

[Coach34]

Shapen: 8 TDs in SEC play to 10 turnovers in 400 snaps.

KT: 7 TDs in SEC play to 0 turnovers in 58 snaps.

arent 3 of those TD's from inside the 5 after Shapen got us all the way down the field?

[CoachT14]

Accuses me of ignoring statistical evidence. Then ignores KT's 57% completion percentage including 40% against Arkansas in the game some claimed he "won". You're also ignoring multiple missed reads and some throws that were closer to fans than any of our receivers.

Now Shapen isn't "my boy". It's absolutely stupid that MSU fans try to make factions over stupid things. I have constantly said that we should play both. Lebby agrees with me. Cole Cubelic who knows a hell of a lot more about football than you also agrees with me. I want both KT and Shapen to succeed because they are MSU players and them doing well means that MSU is doing well. But I'm more objective than you. Shapen should start now unless he is hurt. KT should come in and give him a break every now and then. I get pissed off as much as anyone at Shapen when he makes mistakes he shouldn't. He still makes fewer than KT. KT has a crazy high ceiling and he is special and is going to win a lot of games for us. But he is missing reads left and right and most of his passing yards against Georgia came on one play to Thompson. Also Shapen has led us to two fourth quarter comeback wins this year. Sure, KT did his part but Shapen was the one throwing the winning TD's.

Lol I've explained my statistics. You keep parroting 57% completion % in limited throws as some type of evidence he's an inaccurate passer. Carry on.

[Lord McBuckethead]

In the last game Shapen was sacked 1 more time than KT. And by the way, Shapen has already been sacked 31 times- 6 more than he has any season of his career and we still have two games left.

Our issue isn't Shapen. It isn't him holding onto the ball too long. And it sure as hell isn't his lack of mobility. It's our offensive line absolutely sucks. And KT's lack of accuracy offsets the production from his legs relative to what Shapen gives us in terms of accuracy.

Agreed. The issue isn't Shapen. It is the OL. Kamario offsets the OL issue, but then doesn't have the accuracy. But the more he plays the better he is going to be on that front, as the nerves gets calmed.

[CoachT14]

arent 3 of those TD's from inside the 5 after Shapen got us all the way down the field?

Is a TD a TD or not?

[Coach34]

Is a TD a TD or not?

We could have just as easy put Fluff back there to catch the snap and run it in. Let's also not forget he turned a TD into a FG at A&M also

[msstate7]

Is a TD a TD or not?

Boy, one lineman moved, not all, not the center. Is every false start on the qb?

[StarkVegasSteve]

Glad to see State fans have our new warring factions.

We now have Kamario vs Shapen, who btw are legitimately very close and good friends.

[HoopsDawg]

I cant remember a MSU football player with more undeserved hate than Shapen.

[StarkVegasSteve]

I cant remember a MSU football player with more undeserved hate than Shapen.

Nick Fitzgerald would like a word
Will Rogers would like a word
Tyler Russell would like a word
Kevin Fant would like a word
Wayne Madkin would like a word.

Mississippi State fans love to hate the starter and think the backup is a combination of Joe Montana and Tom Brady. Is what it is.

[msstate7]

I cant remember a MSU football player with more undeserved hate than Shapen.

I can't speak for everyone, but I don't hate em. I just feel like getting KT as many snaps as possible is more beneficial for next season.

[Homedawg]

Shapen: 8 TDs in SEC play to 10 turnovers in 400 snaps.

KT: 7 TDs in SEC play to 0 turnovers in 58 snaps.

I'm not getting in this pissing contest. But those are so skewed it's not funny. How many of kt's td's are after shapen drive them down the field and he came in the game inside the ten??

[msstate7]

Nick Fitzgerald would like a word
Will Rogers would like a word
Tyler Russell would like a word
Kevin Fant would like a word
Wayne Madkin would like a word.

Mississippi State fans love to hate the starter and think the backup is a combination of Joe Montana and Tom Brady. Is what it is.

Well in this case, KT is immensely more talented. Even his play (granted, SSS) is way better than Shapen in QBR and passer rating.

[msstate7]

I'm not getting in this pissing contest. But those are so skewed it's not funny. How many of kt's td's are after shapen drive them down the field and he came in the game inside the ten??

3/7

ETA... seems crazy to discount totally the one to get those final yards.

[DownwardDawg]

Is a TD a TD or not?

Of course. But that's skewed data. That's not how life works. If I drive my BassCat to a great spot, sling out the top water, make it dance like majic, hook a 6lb bass, then hand the rod to my 10 year old granddaughter, isn't that a catch for her??

[DownwardDawg]

I cant remember a MSU football player with more undeserved hate than Shapen.

No doubt !!!

[DownwardDawg]

O-Line ain't gonna cut it with Shapen in there.

This feels like a loss.

It's been a loss since it was on the schedule. We aren't winning against Missouri on the road.

[confucius say]

I love how you ignore all the statistical evidence that shows your boy is an awful QB and can only cherry pick 1 phantom sack that didn't happen and completion percentage on 19 throws despite everyone telling you that anyone who's seen KT play know he's not inaccurate in the least.

There's no question he had accuracy problems the last two games. Even lebby implied as much.
That will get better with reps though.
And I think he brings so much else to the table that he needs to play much more.

[DownwardDawg]

There's no question he had accuracy problems the last two games. Even lebby implied as much.
That will get better with reps though.
And I think he brings so much else to the table that he needs to play much more.

Agree. He definitely needs to play a lot more than he has been. And then even more against ole miss. He will be a stud next year with the experience.

[BrunswickDawg]

Well in this case, KT is immensely more talented. Even his play (granted, SSS) is way better than Shapen in QBR and passer rating.

I think I've heard that statement made about every QB2 who was behind the QB1s on that list from StarkvegasSteve

Keytaon was the most talented QB we've ever signed, but behind Nick
Robertson was the most talented QB we've ever signed, but behind Will
Dak was lightyears ahead of Russell (who at the time was statistically the best QB in our history).
York was the most talented QB we've ever signed, but behind Fant.
Fant was the most talented QB we've ever signed, but behind Madkin.
Madkin was the most talented QB we've ever signed, but behind Wyatt
Rodney Hudson was the the most talented QB we've ever signed, but behind Sleepy and Greg Plump.

[msstate7]

I think I've heard that statement made about every QB2 who was behind the QB1s on that list from StarkvegasSteve

Keytaon was the most talented QB we've ever signed, but behind Nick
Robertson was the most talented QB we've ever signed, but behind Will
Dak was lightyears ahead of Russell (who at the time was statistically the best QB in our history).
York was the most talented QB we've ever signed, but behind Fant.
Fant was the most talented QB we've ever signed, but behind Madkin.
Madkin was the most talented QB we've ever signed, but behind Wyatt
Rodney Hudson was the the most talented QB we've ever signed, but behind Sleepy and Greg Plump.

How many of those in their action as a true freshman led the county in qbr? KT has started 7 drives in the last 2 sec games. Here's the results of those drives: 4 tds, 2 punts, 1 downs after driving 36 yards. That's quite impressive

[DEDawg]

How many of those in their action as a true freshman led the county in qbr? KT has started 7 drives in the last 2 sec games. Here's the results of those drives: 4 tds, 2 punts, 1 downs after driving 36 yards. That's quite impressive

Where are you getting this lead the country in QBR stuff?

[BrunswickDawg]

How many of those in their action as a true freshman led the county in qbr? KT has started 7 drives in the last 2 sec games. Here's the results of those drives: 4 tds, 2 punts, 1 downs after driving 36 yards. That's quite impressive

He doesn't lead the country in QBR because he doesn't have enough stats to qualify. They make those exclusions because the stats can be so skewed when you are only playing 5 snaps most games

From ESPN: Season Leaders: To qualify, a player must play a minimum of 20 action plays per team game

[msstate7]

Where are you getting this lead the country in QBR stuff?

https://i.postimg.cc/BvXTG1Rk/IMG-0788.jpg (https://postimg.cc/8FgJRspm)

https://i.postimg.cc/FK8jFHQB/IMG-0789.jpg (https://postimg.cc/zLwL05vC)

[msstate7]

He doesn't lead the country in QBR because he doesn't have enough stats to qualify. They make those exclusions because the stats can be so skewed when you are only playing 5 snaps most games

From ESPN: Season Leaders: To qualify, a player must play a minimum of 20 action plays per team game

And I've said over-and-over that he doesn't qualify. He doesn't decide his playing time, but he has been excellent when he does. I see you totally gloss over a td rate of 57.1% per drive in sec play.

[msstate7]

I think I've heard that statement made about every QB2 who was behind the QB1s on that list from StarkvegasSteve

Keytaon was the most talented QB we've ever signed, but behind Nick
Robertson was the most talented QB we've ever signed, but behind Will
Dak was lightyears ahead of Russell (who at the time was statistically the best QB in our history).
York was the most talented QB we've ever signed, but behind Fant.
Fant was the most talented QB we've ever signed, but behind Madkin.
Madkin was the most talented QB we've ever signed, but behind Wyatt
Rodney Hudson was the the most talented QB we've ever signed, but behind Sleepy and Greg Plump.

And I didn't say KT is the most talented qb we've ever signed; that's dak. I said KT is immensely more talented than Shapen, which he is. Sorry if that bothers you

[DEDawg]

https://i.postimg.cc/BvXTG1Rk/IMG-0788.jpg (https://postimg.cc/8FgJRspm)

https://i.postimg.cc/FK8jFHQB/IMG-0789.jpg (https://postimg.cc/zLwL05vC)

How do you know he leads?

[confucius say]

And I didn't say KT is the most talented qb we've ever signed; that's dak. I said KT is immensely more talented than Shapen, which he is. Sorry if that bothers you

KT is more talented than Dak physically.

[msstate7]

How do you know he leads?

93.4> 91.1. And again, I know he isn't qualified. Still, you can only judge a player by what he does when he plays, and his play is elite is so far. I know it wouldn't stay at 93.4 QBR if he played full time, but the small sample is good enough for me to want to see a bigger sample. Perhaps if he played all the time, it would drop to 60.1 (65th nationally) like Shapen.

[msstate7]

KT is more talented than Dak physically.

Perhaps. I'm biased towards dak. And it's totally unfair for me to see the end dak and compare him to the true freshman KT

[EdwardDrayton]

Perhaps. I'm biased towards dak. And it's totally unfair for me to see the end dak and compare him to the true freshman KT

KT is more agile physically than Dak was and is.

[BrunswickDawg]

And I've said over-and-over that he doesn't qualify. He doesn't decide his playing time, but he has been excellent when he does. I see you totally gloss over a td rate of 57.1% per drive in sec play.

I don't disagree that he has been very good - situationally. But you are also ignoring how much a situational QB he's been. Other than Alcorn, the first 5 games he played in packages specifically to gain short yardage and or short yardage scores. That is going to heavily skew a stat that places large portion of their measurement on scoring plays. He has the advantage of getting the ball on in those situations versus playing 90% of the snaps and taking all the hits like Shapen has.

Does he pass the eye test as a guy that is immensely talented? Yes. Is he long term more talented then Shapen?? Possibly. Maybe even probably. But, we've also thought that many times before only to end up booing the guy as a Senior.

[Cowbell]

Most of those are due he doesn't step up in the pocket. He makes himself a sitting duck. I would hate to be a lineman for him.

This

[Cowbell]

And I didn't say KT is the most talented qb we've ever signed; that's dak. I said KT is immensely more talented than Shapen, which he is. Sorry if that bothers you

KT is the most talented QB we have probably ever signed. Dak was a work in progress.

[Cowbell]

Perhaps. I'm biased towards dak. And it's totally unfair for me to see the end dak and compare him to the true freshman KT

Just compare him to freshman 3-star dak.

[Bothrops]

How many sacks will Mizzou record this weekend? I'd say 5-6.

[R2Dawg]

In the last game Shapen was sacked 1 more time than KT. And by the way, Shapen has already been sacked 31 times- 6 more than he has any season of his career and we still have two games left.

Our issue isn't Shapen. It isn't him holding onto the ball too long. And it sure as hell isn't his lack of mobility. It's our offensive line absolutely sucks. And KT's lack of accuracy offsets the production from his legs relative to what Shapen gives us in terms of accuracy.

Shapen is part of the issue. So is the OL. Two things true at once. He does hold the ball too long. On the long KT throw, KT threw it much quicker with guy in his face. Shapen would have been in fetal position with a sack.

Shapen does not presnap read the D. Obvious blitz is coming and he does not adjust to throw quick. That is on Shapen not the OL.

KT pocket awareness is much better even as a freshman. He feels the rush and makes them pay. Only time he got sacked there was not where to run as he tried.

[R2Dawg]

KT is more agile physically than Dak was and is.

No doubt, Dak ran like a FB but was still effective.

[EdwardDrayton]

KT is the most talented QB we have probably ever signed. Dak was a work in progress.

We don't know yet if KT is the most talented. He probably is the most agile. But he still has much to prove to show he can be better than Dak.

[EdwardDrayton]

Shapen is part of the issue. So is the OL. Two things true at once. He does hold the ball too long. On the long KT throw, KT threw it much quicker with guy in his face. Shapen would have been in fetal position with a sack.

Shapen does not presnap read the D. Obvious blitz is coming and he does not adjust to throw quick. That is on Shapen not the OL.

KT pocket awareness is much better even as a freshman. He feels the rush and makes them pay. Only time he got sacked there was not where to run as he tried.

His pocket awareness and poise is encouraging to be so young and inexperienced.

[DEDawg]

93.4> 91.1. And again, I know he isn't qualified. Still, you can only judge a player by what he does when he plays, and his play is elite is so far. I know it wouldn't stay at 93.4 QBR if he played full time, but the small sample is good enough for me to want to see a bigger sample. Perhaps if he played all the time, it would drop to 60.1 (65th nationally) like Shapen.

But you just pulled 1 non qualified player who is higher and compared it to the qualified list. You would have to go individually look at every single backup QB in the country to know he is the highest

[msstate7]

But you just pulled 1 non qualified player who is higher and compared it to the qualified list. You would have to go individually look at every single backup QB in the country to know he is the highest

You're missing the whole point of it: KT has been outstanding, and his qbr backs it up. But if it makes you happier, KT's qbr (in a SSS) is better than the #1 qualifier.

[justwin]

93.4> 91.1. And again, I know he isn't qualified. Still, you can only judge a player by what he does when he plays, and his play is elite is so far. I know it wouldn't stay at 93.4 QBR if he played full time, but the small sample is good enough for me to want to see a bigger sample. Perhaps if he played all the time, it would drop to 60.1 (65th nationally) like Shapen.

numbers don't lie. the decision to not play the best player only b/c they are younger is a high school level coach approach, basic, and unable to process the enormous upside. we've seen it on the field the last several weeks, kamario should start and play the entire game.

[justwin]

Shapen is part of the issue. So is the OL. Two things true at once. He does hold the ball too long. On the long KT throw, KT threw it much quicker with guy in his face. Shapen would have been in fetal position with a sack.

Shapen does not presnap read the D. Obvious blitz is coming and he does not adjust to throw quick. That is on Shapen not the OL.

KT pocket awareness is much better even as a freshman. He feels the rush and makes them pay. Only time he got sacked there was not where to run as he tried.

exactly. just watch the ARK & UGA drives again. it jumps out. Kamario can make every throw this offense requires. If kamario starts and gets those 5 to 6 drives in the 1H that shapen has been wasting, we likely score 21+ each of those 1Hs.

[Coach34]

numbers don't lie. the decision to not play the best player only b/c they are younger is a high school level coach approach, basic, and unable to process the enormous upside. we've seen it on the field the last several weeks, kamario should start and play the entire game.

Yesssssss. The guy that is paid millions and winning games depends on him to continue to make millions of dollars- not to mention he has a drive for winning- plays the inferior QB that he watches day after day in practice, on gameday, and on film

[Schultzy]

Most of those are due he doesn't step up in the pocket. He makes himself a sitting duck. I would hate to be a lineman for him.

Yes

[Cowbell]

We don't know yet if KT is the most talented. He probably is the most agile. But he still has much to prove to show he can be better than Dak.
Raw talent has little to prove. Nobody said he was better. But at the same age he is much more talented. Dak couldn't accurately complete a long ball in stride as a freshman

[Todd4State]

Shapen is part of the issue. So is the OL. Two things true at once. He does hold the ball too long. On the long KT throw, KT threw it much quicker with guy in his face. Shapen would have been in fetal position with a sack.

Shapen does not presnap read the D. Obvious blitz is coming and he does not adjust to throw quick. That is on Shapen not the OL.

KT pocket awareness is much better even as a freshman. He feels the rush and makes them pay. Only time he got sacked there was not where to run as he tried.

As a QB you kind of expect your left tackle to not get completely worked. It's hard to make an adjustment when it's your blind side and you can't even see the guy.

And any pocket awareness KT has is offset by his inaccuracy at times.

[Todd4State]

exactly. just watch the ARK & UGA drives again. it jumps out. Kamario can make every throw this offense requires. If kamario starts and gets those 5 to 6 drives in the 1H that shapen has been wasting, we likely score 21+ each of those 1Hs.

The issue is KT is a one read or run QB at this point. That will work....for a short time. The long TD pass that KT had against Arkansas they had 7-8 in the box and we were able to burn them because of it. Now KT is going to have to face zone coverages and he is going to have to read it and make the right decision. It's going to get harder. And when your offense is limited like that things get exposed.

Next year I think KT will have the progressions down, but I expect that he will make mistakes. I don't expect him to truly master the offense until 2027. Making the reads and going through progressions the majority of the time.