Question

[BuckyIsAB****]

If your QB had 8 touchdowns to 10 turnovers in SEC play would you find an excuse for him or give someone else a shot? Not to mention the turnovers literally directly costed you 2 of your SEC losses

[EdwardDrayton]

If your QB had 8 touchdowns to 10 turnovers in SEC play would you find an excuse for him or give someone else a shot? Not to mention the turnovers literally directly costed you 2 of your SEC losses

Implied in your question is that the turnovers are solely and directly attributable to the QB. And that is never the case. Were it not for other factors the QB would have more TDs and fewer turnovers.

[Maroon Glasses]

If your QB had 8 touchdowns to 10 turnovers in SEC play would you find an excuse for him or give someone else a shot? Not to mention the turnovers literally directly costed you 2 of your SEC losses

Yes I would give KT his opportunity.

[EdwardDrayton]

Yes I would give KT his opportunity.

If Shapen is hurt and thus cannot throw effectively then, yes, have to play KT. But we better hope he makes a significant step change hitting his targets or we likely will not win.

[Maroon Glasses]

If Shapen is hurt and thus cannot throw effectively then, yes, have to play KT. But we better hope he makes a significant step change hitting his targets or we likely will not win.

I agree with you. One thing about KT is somehow we manage to sustain drives better and score. It isn't pretty majestic drives, but he keeps them alive and we score. 2 drives yesterday. 2 drives against Ark. These drives give our defense time to catch a breather. Shapen just has not been able to do this and I am not a Shapen hater. Now KT may go 3 and out every drive after I make this post. But as of now, he opens up the offense more and gives us a better chance. Blake is the better passer but KT is the best athlete on the field. He needs the ball in his hands.

[starkvegasdawg]

I know earlier in the season we had both in the game at the same time time. Could we not do more of that? If nothing else it'd make our offense a nightmare to prepare for both seem to like to run with KT much better. Shapen is the better passer, but KT can do so to a degree. You could have one take the snap an you really have no idea what he would do. He tosses to the other an you still don't know what will be done. That could cause a few moments of hesitation and eyes in the backfield an give our fast receivers time to break open.

[MBDawg601]

The fact that people are reacting to yesterday’s game is comical.
It’s Georgia. They are the new BAMA in the SEC. There was an outside shot that we would catch them sleeping, we didn’t. They were prepared and dominated BOTH lines of scrimmage.

I had hope that we would win or be competitive, we ran into a buzz saw yesterday. There is no need to make any changes at position based off of yesterday. They’re 10x more talented in every single position with a tenured head coach, and championship program.

[EdwardDrayton]

I know earlier in the season we had both in the game at the same time time. Could we not do more of that? If nothing else it'd make our offense a nightmare to prepare for both seem to like to run with KT much better. Shapen is the better passer, but KT can do so to a degree. You could have one take the snap an you really have no idea what he would do. He tosses to the other an you still don't know what will be done. That could cause a few moments of hesitation and eyes in the backfield an give our fast receivers time to break open.

Yes. Think I would tilt the balance of the two more towards Shapen for Missouri. And more towards KT for the Egg Bowl. But the success of both hinges on what we get out of the OL.

[EdwardDrayton]

The fact that people are reacting to yesterday’s game is comical.
It’s Georgia. They are the new BAMA in the SEC. There was an outside shot that we would catch them sleeping, we didn’t. They were prepared and dominated BOTH lines of scrimmage.

I had hope that we would win or be competitive, we ran into a buzz saw yesterday. There is no need to make any changes at position based off of yesterday. They’re 10x more talented in every single position with a tenured head coach, and championship program.

Yes. Pretty simple and succinct analysis captures it really. They are better than we are. And that was not a surprise.

[Coach34]

Georgia has been to 4 straight SEC Championship games and 7 of the last 8

Both QB's need to play at this point. My biggest concern is that Georgia didnt just beat us- they beat us up. It could be the old- "not only did Georgia beat us- they beat us up so bad we couldnt win the next week either"

[Pancho]

Lebby needs quality OL and DL. I'm not sure any he has now even can be call quality.

[1eyedog]

From what I saw I’m more concerned with the gashing runs between the tackles......

[Pancho]

word

[Cowbell]

At this point you got to get KT the experience. Shapen has had his chances and hasn't capitalized correctly so he doesn't have an argument.

[parabrave]

Right Now with the line being what it is KT gives us the best chance at winning. Leb has to design a GP around his abilities not what he wants him to be. If it means going full Nicky Fitz then so be it.

[ScooterDog]

Now a days you have to have a running QB that can also pass. You will simply gain more yardage and score more points. It's that simple, and that's what we need.

[Wink&aPrayer]

I'm agreeing with Coach. World is ending as we know it. Play both

[Ranchdawg]

Now a days you have to have a running QB that can also pass. You will simply gain more yardage and score more points. It's that simple, and that's what we need.

Agree! But you also need an offense line that is good enough to prevent a blindside career ending hit on the QB. See Shapen’s hit that took him out of the game.

[Goldendawg]

Agree! But you also need an offense line that is good enough to prevent a blindside career ending hit on the QB. See Shapen’s hit that took him out of the game.

I am told that during the offseason we paid big money for one OT in particular who had bad games before being out of the season and also brought in other portal OL. Even when doing this, Boone, a senior is starting at center and Jimothy Lewis Jr, who got Shapen blindsided, a redshirt freshman has started at LT, the most important position on the o-line during this year before many of these portal additions. We either spent too much money or had very poor evaluations and perhaps even poor coaching at this position. He got there late, but our new OL coach was a disaster at Colorado last year as they gave up constant sacks.

[Ranchdawg]

I don’t care who is doing the evaluations on future portal Oline men and who is coaching them. The buck stops at Lebby’s office. We are not paying peanuts for Lebby and it is imo that Lebby take some blame for this crap show of Oline. FIX IT!

[Percho]

Yes. Pretty simple and succinct analysis captures it really. They are better than we are. And that was not a surprise.

Amen and Amen

[PGHBulldogBG]

I?m not sure the nature of Shapens injury but whether the coaches and fans want KT or not I am thinking they might not have a choice. I just hope this is a repeat of 2013 when Dak came in and won the Egg Bowl and then took us to a great 2014 season

[Maroon Glasses]

2010 Auburn only have 2 guys on offense, besides Cam Newton, get drafted. There defense was not elite at all. A bend but don't break defense. They ended up being a pretty good team, winning the NC. The secret of course was Newton who was a freak athlete at the QB position. His O Line wasn't great. None of the WR played at the next level. Neither did a RB. I say this to say if you have a QB who is the best athlete on the field.. you play him. KT has PROVEN he can open up our offense and score. He is the best athlete on the field. Unpolished? Yes. But sometimes in college, you don't have to be the most polished QB to win. You just gotta extend plays.. and he does. You gotta score.. and he does. What can it hurt?

[Pancho]

kick the FG in florida and we already have 6 wins

[Coach34]

2010 Auburn only have 2 guys on offense, besides Cam Newton, get drafted. There defense was not elite at all. A bend but don't break defense. They ended up being a pretty good team, winning the NC. The secret of course was Newton who was a freak athlete at the QB position. His O Line wasn't great. None of the WR played at the next level. Neither did a RB. I say this to say if you have a QB who is the best athlete on the field.. you play him. KT has PROVEN he can open up our offense and score. He is the best athlete on the field. Unpolished? Yes. But sometimes in college, you don't have to be the most polished QB to win. You just gotta extend plays.. and he does. You gotta score.. and he does. What can it hurt?

Newton was also in his 4th year of college in 2010

[Maroon Glasses]

He was.. which gives me that much more hope that KT is going to do great things for us. I also realize Cam was behind one if the greatest college QB ever in 07 and 08 so he didn't get much playing time but his stats where he did play aren't no where near as good as KT. His QBR in 5 games was 85. But KT has a QBR of 186(according to Fox Sports Stats)right now in 8 games played. 186! I know that his window of playing is small, but still... 186. And he scores touchdowns at a pretty dang good rate right now. Numbers don't lie. And our eyes don't either. And the competition hasn't been a walk in the park, nor has it been garbage time to pad stats except Alcorn State.

[Coach34]

He was.. which gives me that much more hope that KT is going to do great things for us. I also realize Cam was behind one if the greatest college QB ever in 07 and 08 so he didn't get much playing time but his stats where he did play aren't no where near as good as KT. His QBR in 5 games was 85. But KT has a QBR of 96(according to Fox Sports Stats)right now. 96! I know that his window of playing is small, but still... 96. And he scores touchdowns at a pretty dang good rate right now. Numbers don't lie. And our eyes don't either.

His numbers are inflated because he has come in to finish off Shapen drives that are inside the 5 yard line. Newton played mop-up time early on with the scrubs. I mean damn- Shapen led us down to the 3 yard line of the first drive and then KT got us in with one play from the 3.

He is a great talent and going to be a very good QB for us next season after another Spring and some more maturity. But some of you seem to gloss over he played QB yesterday in a blowout game against alot of Georgia's subs and them relaxing on D up big.

Both QB's need to play the rest of the season. With Mississippi having 2 weeks to get ready for our offense- they will have the KT package schemed pretty damn well

[Maroon Glasses]

His numbers are inflated because he has come in to finish off Shapen drives that are inside the 5 yard line. Newton played mop-up time early on with the scrubs. I mean damn- Shapen led us down to the 3 yard line of the first drive and then KT got us in with one play from the 3.

He is a great talent and going to be a very good QB for us next season after another Spring and some more maturity. But some of you seem to gloss over he played QB yesterday in a blowout game against alot of Georgia's subs and them relaxing on D up big.

Both QB's need to play the rest of the season. With Mississippi having 2 weeks to get ready for our offense- they will have the KT package schemed pretty damn well

You're right.. the touchdown numbers are inflated because of him coming into redzone situations. 3-3 in passing situations in the red zone with 1 TD. 8 rushing attempts with 5 TD in the redzone with 2 of these attempts coming from Taylor getting us in the redzone.

[justwin]

If your QB had 8 touchdowns to 10 turnovers in SEC play would you find an excuse for him or give someone else a shot? Not to mention the turnovers literally directly costed you 2 of your SEC losses

coach lebby is plagued with the same disease that lose most coaches their job from high school to the pros in that they don't play the younger more talented player with much higher upside simply b/c he is "young". any decent coach whether HS or college knows how to adjust an offense to a "younger" player. look at the saints yesterday and in college, auburn looking completely different yesterday with the backup qb whose been on the bench all season. Mullen was notorious for playing the wrong qb and costing us multiple chances as big wins.

thanks to shapen, you took us as far as you could. it's beyond time to put your best team on the field let by kamario.

[justwin]

His numbers are inflated because he has come in to finish off Shapen drives that are inside the 5 yard line. Newton played mop-up time early on with the scrubs. I mean damn- Shapen led us down to the 3 yard line of the first drive and then KT got us in with one play from the 3.

He is a great talent and going to be a very good QB for us next season after another Spring and some more maturity. But some of you seem to gloss over he played QB yesterday in a blowout game against alot of Georgia's subs and them relaxing on D up big.

Both QB's need to play the rest of the season. With Mississippi having 2 weeks to get ready for our offense- they will have the KT package schemed pretty damn well

the flipside is you counter by giving your best qb 70+ snaps this weekend (in a likely win on the road) and two weeks to prepare exclusively vs OM at home and make the game 11 vs 11. it's really not that hard.

[Pancho]

that same auburn QB also looked like a deer in headlights he week prior in the right Rev Freezers last stand

[Really Clark?]

KT looks better each week with limited play because he is finally digesting things a little better and not being exposed during a complete game as QB1. Lebby has done the right thing bringing him along slowly. It is the absolute right call to have him ready next year, which has been the best case scenario since the day he signed.

[Coach34]

the flipside is you counter by giving your best qb 70+ snaps this weekend (in a likely win on the road) and two weeks to prepare exclusively vs OM at home and make the game 11 vs 11. it's really not that hard.

There is nothing "likely" about our game this weekend. We are beat up on defense and on the road. 6.5 point underdog. One of the better DL's in the SEC vs our below average OL

It's going to be a fight. You keep playing both QB's

[StarkVegasSteve]

His numbers are inflated because he has come in to finish off Shapen drives that are inside the 5 yard line. Newton played mop-up time early on with the scrubs. I mean damn- Shapen led us down to the 3 yard line of the first drive and then KT got us in with one play from the 3.

He is a great talent and going to be a very good QB for us next season after another Spring and some more maturity. But some of you seem to gloss over he played QB yesterday in a blowout game against alot of Georgia's subs and them relaxing on D up big.

Both QB's need to play the rest of the season. With Mississippi having 2 weeks to get ready for our offense- they will have the KT package schemed pretty damn well

Golding is going to have the Kamario package scouted to a T.

If we are going to roll with Kamario the rest of the year we are going to have to open the playbook up a lot more. And that is where the worry comes in. Freshman can get paralysis by analysis if you overload them and we can't cut down the gameplan just because he may not understand things. Our playbook the next two weeks can't be swing pass, deep pass, read option, QB keeper. They will be ready for that. We are going to have to use our usual RPO stuff with crossing routes and slants. The deep shots are going to have to still be there as well.

[Pancho]

good analysis

[StarkVegasSteve]

the flipside is you counter by giving your best qb 70+ snaps this weekend (in a likely win on the road) and two weeks to prepare exclusively vs OM at home and make the game 11 vs 11. it's really not that hard.

Have you watched Mizzou AT ALL this year? They do the one thing we struggle to defend REALLY WELL. Hardy and Roberts are two very good backs and Drink is a pretty damn good play caller. They will get Coleman involved with speed sweeps too.

This is not a LIKELY win. Hell we're a 6.5 pt dog so Vegas does not think it's a likely win either.

[Pancho]

We can't let big 87, the TE run free either. He's a TD machine inside the 20

[Goldendawg]

There is nothing "likely" about our game this weekend. We are beat up on defense and on the road. 6.5 point underdog. One of the better DL's in the SEC vs our below average OL

It's going to be a fight. You keep playing both QB's

They also run the ball very well and GA shredded us on the ground for 300 plus yards. I think we are now #15 against the run in the SEC. Our 3 man DL scheme has driven me mad all year. We don't stop the run or get much pressure at all on the QB.

[Coach34]

They also run the ball very well and GA shredded us on the ground for 300 plus yards. I think we are now #15 against the run in the SEC. Our 3 man DL scheme has driven me mad all year. We don't stop the run or get much pressure at all on the QB.

Georgia schemed us well with motion to move our D to create mismatches. I'm sure we will spend this week making corrections against some of that. The Rams schemed the 49'ers yesterday they had trouble defending. It happens

We'll defend the run better but I'm worried us being beat up. Hopefully we got our main guys ready to go by Saturday

[Todd4State]

They also run the ball very well and GA shredded us on the ground for 300 plus yards. I think we are now #15 against the run in the SEC. Our 3 man DL scheme has driven me mad all year. We don't stop the run or get much pressure at all on the QB.

With this group being aggressive would end up being a worse result. Trust me. We would be getting destroyed by dual threat QB's and teams would have all day to throw. When you can't get pressure you have one option and that is to spy the QB, play zone, and pick your times to blitz.

[Todd4State]

Golding is going to have the Kamario package scouted to a T.

If we are going to roll with Kamario the rest of the year we are going to have to open the playbook up a lot more. And that is where the worry comes in. Freshman can get paralysis by analysis if you overload them and we can't cut down the gameplan just because he may not understand things. Our playbook the next two weeks can't be swing pass, deep pass, read option, QB keeper. They will be ready for that. We are going to have to use our usual RPO stuff with crossing routes and slants. The deep shots are going to have to still be there as well.

Thank you! Great post. We have too many fans that think that we can run a limited playbook like that for a game and succeed. Heck- look at Mizzou and what has happened with their freshman QB who I believe was also an Elite 11 participant. Three losses in a row.

[Goldendawg]

Golding is going to have the Kamario package scouted to a T.

If we are going to roll with Kamario the rest of the year we are going to have to open the playbook up a lot more. And that is where the worry comes in. Freshman can get paralysis by analysis if you overload them and we can't cut down the gameplan just because he may not understand things. Our playbook the next two weeks can't be swing pass, deep pass, read option, QB keeper. They will be ready for that. We are going to have to use our usual RPO stuff with crossing routes and slants. The deep shots are going to have to still be there as well.

He will also have the Shapen "packages" scouted out. Anyone else noticed out of our "20" or so WR types on the roster that we only have two go to types going into game 11? OL and DL are not the only positions that we seem to have had bad evaluations, poor development, or questionable coaching this year. But, but, we beat Arkansas, real signature win thus far.***

[StarkVegasSteve]

Thank you! Great post. We have too many fans that think that we can run a limited playbook like that for a game and succeed. Heck- look at Mizzou and what has happened with their freshman QB who I believe was also an Elite 11 participant. Three losses in a row.

We have too many that don't understand Elite 11 kids bust ALL THE TIME. Also, Luke Kromenhoek was an Elite 11 QB. You know who else was? Chris Parson(there's still no S). He's at Austin Peay. Also congrats to Chris. Set the Austin Peay rushing TDs for a QB record on Saturday. I think that kid will be back up at the G5 level next year.

You are also correct on Mizzou's QB. Zollers was an Elite 11 finalist the same year as Kamario.

[Goldendawg]

We have too many that don't understand Elite 11 kids bust ALL THE TIME. Also, Luke Kromenhoek was an Elite 11 QB. You know who else was? Chris Parson(there's still no S). He's at Austin Peay. Also congrats to Chris. Set the Austin Peay rushing TDs for a QB record on Saturday. I think that kid will be back up at the G5 level next year.

You are also correct on Mizzou's QB. Zollers was an Elite 11 finalist the same year as Kamario.

I know injuries have MO down to having a true Freshman to start against us. But barring a much better supporting cast, why can't KT lead us to victory against them, if Zollers can beat us?

[StarkVegasSteve]

He will also have the Shapen "packages" scouted out. Anyone else noticed out of our "20" or so WR types on the roster that we only have two go to types going into game 11? OL and DL are not the only positions that we seem to have had bad evaluations, poor development, or questionable coaching this year. But, but, we beat Arkansas, real signature win thus far.***

But Shapen can run the offense FULLY. Look I don't know how I have become the Blake Shapen defender. Because I don't like him. He makes bad reads for a 1st year starter, much less a kid who's started 35 straight games. He's mobile but doesn't want to use it. He can't manipulate the pocket and move it. And he waits for the HR ball to open up instead of hitting the 8 yd dump route at the sideline.

But he can run the offense and knows it fully. Kamario does not and cannot run the offense fully. Some of that is by design. We're bringing him along slowly. Now you can make an argument that we should have just started him from Day 1. And that's a completely different conversation and I would respect your opinion if you thought that was the case. If that happens we probably have 1 less win right now, because we don't beat Arizona St. We wouldn't have beaten Florida. I still think we beat Arkansas because they are absolutely putrid defensively.

[StarkVegasSteve]

I know injuries have MO down to having a true Freshman to start against us. But barring a much better supporting cast, why can't KT lead us to victory against them, if Zollers can beat us?

Well Issac Smith is out. Kelley Jones is banged up. Reese is still iffy. Mizzou runs the ball REALLY WELL and we defend the run REALLY POORLY.

If Kamario starts, which btw I am not real sure that's happening just based on some things I've heard, he will look like a Freshman starting in his first game. On the road. At night. In the SEC. That's not a recipe for success. It's especially not a recipe for success when we would have to tailor the offense to him and not be able to run the full offense. He would like a Freshman. He'd have 4-5 plays where he would look like Cam Newton. And he'd have 4-5 plays where he'd look like Jeremy Johnson.

I'm not saying we can't win. If we come out and stack the box and sell out to stop the run along with hitting 3-4 deep balls then we could win. But the recipe for a win is a lot smaller than a recipe for a loss. I think some people think Kamario is going to roll out there and look like Cam Newton or Marcel Reed immediately. That's not realistic. It's just not.

[Coach34]

I know injuries have MO down to having a true Freshman to start against us. But barring a much better supporting cast, why can't KT lead us to victory against them, if Zollers can beat us?

But why limit the offense when we can play both QB's and expand it more? That obviously gives us the best chance to win. Zollers has a good OL to rely on and they have a good defense overall. Mizzou is a much better team in the trenches than we are.

They are 5th in Scoring D- we are 14th
They are 5th in Rush D- we are 15th
They are 1st in Pass D- We are 9th
They are 2nd in Total D- We are 14th

We dont need to limit our offense against this team.

[Goldendawg]

But why limit the offense when we can play both QB's and expand it more? That obviously gives us the best chance to win. Zollers has a good OL to rely on and they have a good defense overall. Mizzou is a much better team in the trenches than we are.

They are 5th in Scoring D- we are 14th
They are 5th in Rush D- we are 15th
They are 1st in Pass D- We are 9th
They are 2nd in Total D- We are 14th

We dont need to limit our offense against this team.

Thanks for the info. It looks like from these stats, the reports of vast improvement in the second year of our defense under Hutzler and improved DL portal acquisitions were very premature, especially against SEC foes.

[Maroon Glasses]

But Shapen can run the offense FULLY. Look I don't know how I have become the Blake Shapen defender. Because I don't like him. He makes bad reads for a 1st year starter, much less a kid who's started 35 straight games. He's mobile but doesn't want to use it. He can't manipulate the pocket and move it. And he waits for the HR ball to open up instead of hitting the 8 yd dump route at the sideline.

But he can run the offense and knows it fully. Kamario does not and cannot run the offense fully. Some of that is by design. We're bringing him along slowly. Now you can make an argument that we should have just started him from Day 1. And that's a completely different conversation and I would respect your opinion if you thought that was the case. If that happens we probably have 1 less win right now, because we don't beat Arizona St. We wouldn't have beaten Florida. I still think we beat Arkansas because they are absolutely putrid defensively.

I'm not a Shapen hater.. I sincerely want the kid to be great. But like you said, he is not. And.like you said, he knows the offense but he does not run it to its full capability. He is either going to take a sack looking for the HR, hit the HR, or try throwing the ball across the middle. He does not seem to take the easy, open routes. Its either Evans or Thompson. I thought he was mobile but after this week its clear, he isn't. He did not look comfortable at all running the ball. Even his slides look un-athletic. It's almost like he limits us just as much as Kamario even tho he knows the entire offense. And I just want to clarify, I know Kamario doesn't know the full offense, he is a freshman, he will struggle reading schemes, etc. I know that.. either way we are limited. I just think he deserves a shot at this point.

[Coach34]

Thanks for the info. It looks like from these stats, the reports of vast improvement in the second year of our defense under Hutzler and improved DL portal acquisitions were very premature, especially against SEC foes.

We have improved- we just lack depth. Dolla bills ya'll

[TrapGame]

We have improved- we just lack depth. Dolla bills ya'll

It is all about the money. Just ask Texas Tech.

[Coach34]

losing two of your top portals in the trenches to knee injuries to start the season did us no favors for sure

[Goldendawg]

losing two of your top portals in the trenches to knee injuries to start the season did us no favors for sure

I agree. They were a very big loss on both sides of the ball, but they weren't the only portal guys we $igned on both sides of the line, and yet it seems none of the remaining ones could beat out Boone and a not ready redshirt freshman OL that has been moved up to starting LT out of sure necessity.

[EdwardDrayton]

They also run the ball very well and GA shredded us on the ground for 300 plus yards. I think we are now #15 against the run in the SEC. Our 3 man DL scheme has driven me mad all year. We don't stop the run or get much pressure at all on the QB.

If we can't control Missouri's run game and force them to throw, we're in a crap ton of trouble.