Sunday Morning QB With SVS-That One Hurts. Plain and Simple Edition

[StarkVegasSteve]

Well, I really don?t know what to say. I don?t have words and probably won?t for a while. That one stung. Even taking out Tennessee, 6-2 has been on the racket for us and we?ve let it slip past. Eventually, you have to win those types of games you have to be able to close teams out. And it?s seeming more and more that Arizona State was the anomaly and not the norm.

1. Shapen wasn?t perfect yesterday, but he played a hell of a game and played good enough to win. I thought earlier in the game when we could not get the run game going Shapen kept us in the game. He came through for over 300 yards and I thought he extended the pocket and the play a few times. But he also took some really bad sacks. Just some you cannot take, especially on the last drive.

2. Kamario still has a lot of growing up to do. Look no further than the 4th and 1. This is not 3A High School football. It?s the SEC. You can?t outrun people to the corner on 3rd and 1. Be a 17 football player and run into some contact and use your god given height and strength. Be Tim Tebow. Be Dak Prescott. Go get a 17 yard.

3. I thought Booth was OK in the run game but outside of the flip pass touchdown he was not very good in the pass game. However, Gayten was awful. We need Fluff back in the worst way.

4. If you can find any positives from yesterday it?s that Ayden Williams has finally taken over WR3. I thought he had a great game yesterday. I thought all our receivers did.

5. Our DL, like the rest of the D, played really well until we needed them to step up. Deonte Anderson makes a penalty that will haunt us for a while. You just can?t be stupid right there. Let him run out of bounds and we have the ball up 17 with 11 to go at their 38.

6. LB group played fine. I thought Gullete had his best game of the year, probably not coincidentally it was against his former team.

7. Our secondary was leaky. I thought Kelley Jones played out of his mind but the rest left a lot to be desired.

8. Special teams was a big reason we lost if we are being honest. We get a one in a million defensive chop block that gives them another shot at a TD and then give up a punt return to tie it. We also have a FG blocked.

9. The last drive still pisses me off. We have it at the Texas 46. We essentially need 10 yds to get into FG range and have just gotten 24 yds in 2 plays. Run a quick slant to Thompson or Evans or leak Seydou out in the flat and get the yardage. We again did not even give our kicker a chance.

10. Lebby has to learn to win. It is that simple. We go 3 and out on back to back drives where 2-3 first downs on either of them effectively ends the game.

11. Lebby needs to hire an OC. Go get Phillip Montgomery or go drop a bag on Kendall Briles desk in Ft Worth. But go get someone. Yesterday was the epitome of he needs to be the HC and not the OC. He was still thinking like an OC late.

12. I am not all the way out as I was last night, but I am not all the way in like I was. I am in wait and see. We desperately need a win on Saturday. Like in the worst way possible.

13. Yesterday has the ability to lose the team and the locker room to doubt. Lebby will have his hands full the rest of the year keeping the team engaged.

Keep The Fight, and even though it seems impossible right now, Keep The Faith. If being a Mississippi State fan was easy, then everyone would do it.

HailState

[Todd4State]

I agree with everything you said. I'll add this too- Kyle Ferrie has to start making all of his field goals. That's three games we lost in overtime or by less than three points where we had a miss.

I think we need an assistant head coach to help Lebby. I like the names you mentioned. Vanderbilt turned it around when they hired Jerry Kill. We simply meed someone that can tell Lebby- hey don't go for it here. Punt it.

[BuckyIsAB****]

I agree with everything you said. I'll add this too- Kyle Ferrie has to start making all of his field goals. That's three games we lost in overtime or by less than three points where we had a miss.

I think we need an assistant head coach to help Lebby. I like the names you mentioned. Vanderbilt turned it around when they hired Jerry Kill. We simply meed someone that can tell Lebby- hey don't go for it here. Punt it.
He has 2 older guys on staff. It shouldn?t take someone telling you not to pull what he pulled last week and then follow it up the next week with even worse clock management up by 17. Yall can get mad at me all you want but our practices are more like backyard bbqs and frat parties than they are football practices. I dont think he is a killer

[Rawdawg]

I agree with everything you said. I'll add this too- Kyle Ferrie has to start making all of his field goals. That's three games we lost in overtime or by less than three points where we had a miss.

I think we need an assistant head coach to help Lebby. I like the names you mentioned. Vanderbilt turned it around when they hired Jerry Kill. We simply meed someone that can tell Lebby- hey don't go for it here. Punt it.

Yes we need a coordinator of common sense in the worst way.

[Todd4State]

He has 2 older guys on staff. It shouldn?t take someone telling you not to pull what he pulled last week and then follow it up the next week with even worse clock management up by 17. Yall can get mad at me all you want but our practices are more like backyard bbqs and frat parties than they are football practices. I dont think he is a killer

It shouldn't but even if they're smoking blunts all practice there is no question the team is improved and has gotten better. So he's doing something right.

And there is no question the team plays hard for him. Literally if we punt the ball twice we win. That seems correctable.

[EdwardDrayton]

8. Watching the replay, there's little doubt the high/low by Jones and Sanders was premeditated. Just one of a list of things we can point to that cost us the game. By both players and coaches. This one goes beyond sting. We're all going to be pissed for awhile.

[Todd4State]

Yes we need a coordinator of common sense in the worst way.

And look at how much the defense has improved since we added McIntyre and Rhoads.

[Quaoarsking]

And look at how much the defense has improved since we added McIntyre and Rhoads.

Improved? Sure, but we could be 6-2 if 34 and 38 points in regulation were enough.

[msstate7]

Improved? Sure, but we could be 6-2 if 34 and 38 points in regulation were enough.

We give up 3 less yards a game in conf to be #15 rather than last (ark)

[basedog]

Yes, to special teams play yesterday, personal foul on QB, and some bad play calling late in the game. Going to be tough going back on the road next Saturday, but it is Arkansas and they have problems like us.

[TrapGame]

Great post SVS.

I truly believe if we had a healthy Fluff for both Florida and Texas we would be 6-2 right now. He is that much of a weapon.

I am just indifferent at this point. I like Lebby but he might be a little over his head at the moment. I hope Briles talks to him after every game and gives him his honest critique on his play calling and where as a head coach he should have known better.

This stung the most. ESPN had Texas with a 1.4% chance of winning at 11:40 in the 4th quarter. Guess what happened at 11:40? Yep, the roughing the passing penalty.

Lebby is not Joe Moorhead and he sure as hell isn?t Arnett. Firing Lebby this season would be worse than keeping him one more year. The coaching market is going to get crazy in a month. I do not want to wind up with Jimbo, Orgeron or some mediocre G5 coordinator that is more green and experienced as Lebby.

[Quaoarsking]

Lebby is not Joe Moorhead and he sure as hell isn?t Arnett. Firing Lebby this season would be worse than keeping him one more year. The coaching market is going to get crazy in a month. I do not want to wind up with Jimbo, Orgeron or some mediocre G5 coordinator that is more green and experienced as Lebby.

I've identified 15 successful head coaches that aren't going to be on the elite programs' radar. We could absolutely hire one of these. No worries about a green G5 coordinator:
https://www.elitedawgs.com/showthread.php?103813-Way-to-early-Coaching-Hot-Board

[DEDawg]

I've identified 15 successful head coaches that aren't going to be on the elite programs' radar. We could absolutely hire one of these. No worries about a green G5 coordinator:
https://www.elitedawgs.com/showthread.php?103813-Way-to-early-Coaching-Hot-Board

It just makes no sense. One from a money and reset standpoint. But also we are suffering now while Lebby learns and takes his lumps. Why not stick around for the reward next year? You got KT taking over too.

[Quaoarsking]

It just makes no sense. One from a money and reset standpoint. But also we are suffering now while Lebby learns and takes his lumps. Why not stick around for the reward next year? You got KT taking over too.

Why does our coach have to "learn and take his lumps" ? Why can't he just know some basic football strategy and time management already?

Every single coach on my list would have kicked the FG against Florida and not blown the 17 point 4th quarter lead against Texas and be at least 6-2 right now. (A lot of them would have beaten Tennessee too.) If Lebby had done that himself, we would be ranked in the teens and he would have near universal support from the fanbase. Instead, the losses are on him and his future as our coach is in jeopardy.

[NCDawg]

Well, I really don?t know what to say. I don?t have words and probably won?t for a while. That one stung. Even taking out Tennessee, 6-2 has been on the racket for us and we?ve let it slip past. Eventually, you have to win those types of games you have to be able to close teams out. And it?s seeming more and more that Arizona State was the anomaly and not the norm.

1. Shapen wasn?t perfect yesterday, but he played a hell of a game and played good enough to win. I thought earlier in the game when we could not get the run game going Shapen kept us in the game. He came through for over 300 yards and I thought he extended the pocket and the play a few times. But he also took some really bad sacks. Just some you cannot take, especially on the last drive.

2. Kamario still has a lot of growing up to do. Look no further than the 4th and 1. This is not 3A High School football. It?s the SEC. You can?t outrun people to the corner on 3rd and 1. Be a 17 football player and run into some contact and use your god given height and strength. Be Tim Tebow. Be Dak Prescott. Go get a 17 yard.

3. I thought Booth was OK in the run game but outside of the flip pass touchdown he was not very good in the pass game. However, Gayten was awful. We need Fluff back in the worst way.

4. If you can find any positives from yesterday it?s that Ayden Williams has finally taken over WR3. I thought he had a great game yesterday. I thought all our receivers did.

5. Our DL, like the rest of the D, played really well until we needed them to step up. Deonte Anderson makes a penalty that will haunt us for a while. You just can?t be stupid right there. Let him run out of bounds and we have the ball up 17 with 11 to go at their 38.

6. LB group played fine. I thought Gullete had his best game of the year, probably not coincidentally it was against his former team.

7. Our secondary was leaky. I thought Kelley Jones played out of his mind but the rest left a lot to be desired.

8. Special teams was a big reason we lost if we are being honest. We get a one in a million defensive chop block that gives them another shot at a TD and then give up a punt return to tie it. We also have a FG blocked.

9. The last drive still pisses me off. We have it at the Texas 46. We essentially need 10 yds to get into FG range and have just gotten 24 yds in 2 plays. Run a quick slant to Thompson or Evans or leak Seydou out in the flat and get the yardage. We again did not even give our kicker a chance.

10. Lebby has to learn to win. It is that simple. We go 3 and out on back to back drives where 2-3 first downs on either of them effectively ends the game.

11. Lebby needs to hire an OC. Go get Phillip Montgomery or go drop a bag on Kendall Briles desk in Ft Worth. But go get someone. Yesterday was the epitome of he needs to be the HC and not the OC. He was still thinking like an OC late.

12. I am not all the way out as I was last night, but I am not all the way in like I was. I am in wait and see. We desperately need a win on Saturday. Like in the worst way possible.

13. Yesterday has the ability to lose the team and the locker room to doubt. Lebby will have his hands full the rest of the year keeping the team engaged.

Keep The Fight, and even though it seems impossible right now, Keep The Faith. If being a Mississippi State fan was easy, then everyone would do it.

HailState

Re' no. 2, we have to go wide on 3rd and 1 or 3rd and 2, if we're not going to pass. I have no doubt Kamario would have been stuffed going up the middle. Our OL isn't strong enough or capable of knocking people off the LOS to make the first down.

[EdwardDrayton]

Yeah. We are suffering. Like we always have suffered. They should sell black belts in the campus bookstore with the banner M embroidered on it. Lord knows us State fans all have been kicked in the balls enough to deserve one.

[Todd4State]

Improved? Sure, but we could be 6-2 if 34 and 38 points in regulation were enough.

Some of those points were off of special teams and going forward it on fourth down. That's at least 21 points off the top of my head right there. And then overtime doesn't happen which is another 7 points. So that's essentially 17 points on the defense.

[Todd4State]

Great post SVS.

I truly believe if we had a healthy Fluff for both Florida and Texas we would be 6-2 right now. He is that much of a weapon.

I am just indifferent at this point. I like Lebby but he might be a little over his head at the moment. I hope Briles talks to him after every game and gives him his honest critique on his play calling and where as a head coach he should have known better.

This stung the most. ESPN had Texas with a 1.4% chance of winning at 11:40 in the 4th quarter. Guess what happened at 11:40? Yep, the roughing the passing penalty.

Lebby is not Joe Moorhead and he sure as hell isn?t Arnett. Firing Lebby this season would be worse than keeping him one more year. The coaching market is going to get crazy in a month. I do not want to wind up with Jimbo, Orgeron or some mediocre G5 coordinator that is more green and experienced as Lebby.

On top of that I would rather spend that money on NIL and an assistant head coach which should be a relatively inexpensive addition compared to what a buyout and hiring a new staff would cost.

[Mjoelner34]

#7: You should put this one in BOLD text. Manning and Brumfield were flat out abused repeatedly last night. I know somebody is going to fire back that Manning led us in tackles. Well duh! If they are completing everything they throw against you, they're going to keep going to that well over and over and you're going to have a lot of tackles. Its basic math.

#12: Right there with you. Currently weighing BDC/season ticket costs next year vs. a couple of good or one very great vacation.

A couple of other things:

I thought Sylla played a helluva game last night.

All fumbles, ints, bad play calling aside, this makes two weeks in a row where a roughing the passer penalty has bitten us in the ass. Last week UF would have had a 4th and long and would have punted. They had the lead and we had shown no signs of life on offense but instead, the roughing gave them a 1st down and they went on to kick what turned out to be the game winning field goal on that drive.

ETA: I didn't see the roughing the passer call. I was watching the receivers downfield. I'm trying to recall exactly what happened but I swear that I saw two Texas receivers in basically the same area and both were out of bounds. One came back in and got a hand on the pass but that was it. If I saw that correctly, why wasn't that a penalty for illegal touching on UT thus offsetting the roughing the passer call?

[TrapGame]

On top of that I would rather spend that money on NIL and an assistant head coach which should be a relatively inexpensive addition compared to what a buyout and hiring a new staff would cost.

We are going to shell out $$$ for a QB in the portal along with some O linemen. Shapen isn't Mike Henig, but, damn, you gotta make better decisions with ball sometimes. He's a fifth year senior playing like a red shirt sophomore sometimes.

I'm sure Arnold will be back in the portal since Freeze made the change yesterday and won the game b/c of it. But, I don't want his ass. If Lebby does get him out of the portal I will take that as a sign we couldn't close the deal on much better prospects.

[bulldawg28]

How does KaMario catch a stray? He ran the play to the outside where Lebby called it. He also threw a touchdown pass. I'm not saying he would do better but this game is 100000% on Lebby.

[Quaoarsking]

How does KaMario catch a stray? He ran the play to the outside where Lebby called it. He also threw a touchdown pass. I'm not saying he would do better but this game is 100000% on Lebby.

Valid question. I'm assuming he ran the play Lebby called. Is KT allowed to audible running plays?

[Todd4State]

How does KaMario catch a stray? He ran the play to the outside where Lebby called it. He also threw a touchdown pass. I'm not saying he would do better but this game is 100000% on Lebby.

Shapen also runs the plays that Lebby calls. So I guess his mistakes aren't his fault either?

[Todd4State]

We are going to shell out $$$ for a QB in the portal along with some O linemen. Shapen isn't Mike Henig, but, damn, you gotta make better decisions with ball sometimes. He's a fifth year senior playing like a red shirt sophomore sometimes.

I'm sure Arnold will be back in the portal since Freeze made the change yesterday and won the game b/c of it. But, I don't want his ass. If Lebby does get him out of the portal I will take that as a sign we couldn't close the deal on much better prospects.

I don't know who our QB will be but I'm sure we'll look at all of our options. I wonder if South Florida's QB has any eligibility left?

[Coach34]

Valid question. I'm assuming he ran the play Lebby called. Is KT allowed to audible running plays?

KT ran sideways too long and didnt cut it up as soon as he could have. Neither did #77 blocking for him. He got lucky on the tipped TD pass also

The punt return and late hit were huge parts of the game. You also cant give up 60 yard passes when your up 17 points. Coaches tell guys "nobody gets behind you" over and over in those situations.
Lebby not burning clock was a bad decision. Just before we punted on the punt return TD we snapped the ball with 25 and 17 left on the play clock.
Lebby trying to go fast also costs us on video replay. There were a couple of plays that should have been reviewed but we go hurry up and they cant look at the spot or whatever.
Lebby going for it on our 40 was stupid. Altho Texas didnt get anything from it- we had a chance to flip the field and have them backed up. We have arguable the best punter in the SEC.

[bulldawg28]

Valid question. I'm assuming he ran the play Lebby called. Is KT allowed to audible running plays?

No, he's not given that ability on the scripted play he gets. It's either run left, right, or middle. The one wrinkle has been the TD pass called which is why it worked. It's also the reason why the 4th down play didn't work. They knew what was coming.

[bulldawg28]

Shapen also runs the plays that Lebby calls. So I guess his mistakes aren't his fault either?

Somewhat, however you expect a 6th year player to do better. Shapen can audible to get into the right play and not make the play worst.

[msstate7]

Somewhat, however you expect a 6th year player to do better. Shapen can audible to get into the right play and not make the play worst.

Todd hates our freshman qb for some reason. He's more to blame for losses than Lebby and Shapen

[NCDawg]

I find our special teams play strange yesterday. We run the ball out on the kickoff when it's kicked to the goal line, and we're stiopped on the 13 yard line. Yet, when they kicked the ball short, we call for the fair catch. Also, very poor tackling on the punt they ran back for the TD.

[DEDawg]

Why does our coach have to "learn and take his lumps" ? Why can't he just know some basic football strategy and time management already?

Every single coach on my list would have kicked the FG against Florida and not blown the 17 point 4th quarter lead against Texas and be at least 6-2 right now. (A lot of them would have beaten Tennessee too.) If Lebby had done that himself, we would be ranked in the teens and he would have near universal support from the fanbase. Instead, the losses are on him and his future as our coach is in jeopardy.

That is quite an assumption, Don?t think you can just assert that. And the reason we have to do that is because we don?t have the money to just churn coaches and rosters every 2 years. We have to do the hard and long way and give guys 3 years and slowly improve each year.

[DEDawg]

How does KaMario catch a stray? He ran the play to the outside where Lebby called it. He also threw a touchdown pass. I'm not saying he would do better but this game is 100000% on Lebby.

The play was most likely zone out then find a hole and bulldoze for 1 yard. He does that and we win the game. He tried to hit the corner to bust one which works playing Kemper County. Not so much against Texas.

[Bdawg]

Improved? Sure, but we could be 6-2 if 34 and 38 points in regulation were enough.

They did return a punt. A FG penalty cost us 4. A roughing the passer cost us 7( even though it was defense that committed the foul, the defense stopped them on 4th down but one guy had a brain fart.) Like I said in the game thread, we leave points on the field and give the other team points. Should have been 20-10 at the half.

[StarkVegasSteve]

How does KaMario catch a stray? He ran the play to the outside where Lebby called it. He also threw a touchdown pass. I'm not saying he would do better but this game is 100000% on Lebby.

Kamario still think this is 3A football sometimes. Stick your foot in the ground and get a yd. These guys are just as fast as you. He still has not learned that. I have no issue with Kamario because I think he is going to be good, but people anointing him need to slow their role. He has a lot of development and learning.

[Pinto]

Where did the passes to our TE go in the fourth quarter. We were eating Texas lunch with plays to the TE and then went away from it. That?s my biggest issue. We do something once or a couple of times and it works so we get away from it.

[bulldawg28]

The play was most likely zone out then find a hole and bulldoze for 1 yard. He does that and we win the game. He tried to hit the corner to bust one which works playing Kemper County. Not so much against Texas.

It wasn't a zone play. The lineman was pulling in front of him. It was a designed outside lead

[bulldawg28]

Kamario still think this is 3A football sometimes. Stick your foot in the ground and get a yd. These guys are just as fast as you. He still has not learned that. I have no issue with Kamario because I think he is going to be good, but people anointing him need to slow their role. He has a lot of development and learning.

The play call wasn't an inside lead.

[DEDawg]

It wasn't a zone play. The lineman was pulling in front of him. It was a designed outside lead

Thanks I was at the game and didn?t get a great look at it. Was seeing red by then

[bulldawg28]

Where did the passes to our TE go in the fourth quarter. We were eating Texas lunch with plays to the TE and then went away from it. That?s my biggest issue. We do something once or a couple of times and it works so we get away from it.

I was waiting on us to hit a TE up the seam on the 3rd/4th and short. A TE is definitely needed to help out the Qb

[StarkVegasSteve]

The play call wasn't an inside lead.

It was not, but he took it too far outside trying to get to the corner. He needed a yard. At some point, stick your foot in the ground, use your god given physical abilities, and get a 17 yard. Just like everyone else, we are paying him and he is fair game for criticism.

[Coach34]

I was waiting on us to hit a TE up the seam on the 3rd/4th and short. A TE is definitely needed to help out the Qb

We called the same play we scored on with the TE earlier on the last drive. Texas covered it well and that led to the sack

[R2Dawg]

Improved? Sure, but we could be 6-2 if 34 and 38 points in regulation were enough.

Only problem in both those games, the D didn't give up 21 pts - O and ST did. We win easily if the other parts off the team that shouldn't get scored on do their job.

[Quaoarsking]

Only problem in both those games, the D didn't give up 21 pts - O and ST did. We win easily if the other parts off the team that shouldn't get scored on do their job.

Ultimately, the buck stops with our head coach, who is costing his players games they're good enough to win.

[R2Dawg]

Ultimately, the buck stops with our head coach, who is costing his players games they're good enough to win.

Totally agree. As Jackie used to say, everyone's got good players it is up to the coaches to put them in a position to win and we ain't doing it for 4 quarters. We do for maybe 3.

[BulldogBear]

Kamario still think this is 3A football sometimes. Stick your foot in the ground and get a yd. These guys are just as fast as you. He still has not learned that. I have no issue with Kamario because I think he is going to be good, but people anointing him need to slow their role. He has a lot of development and learning.

This is a general issue with a lot modern players. They're trying to maximize yardage and/or spawn a big play. That's good in a lot situations. The game is no longer 3 yards and a cloud of dust. But, the game will never completely leave that concept behind. Just get the Yard. We started moving the ball against the Vols a few weeks back when we took what they gave us and quit trying to make every run a 30 harder.

Anyway, it's a mentality that they have trouble checking out of. Its not a video game or a highlight real. Get to the sticks. You dont have to score this play. If you get the FDs, then the TDs will follow.