Grounded perspective

[Maverick91]

Look I am not happy. We should be 6-1 right now and in the thick of SEC championship conversation. But we are not, and it sucks. We are 4-3 and it sucks. It sucks losing in a manner than you know you should have won. It sucks knowing what we had potential to do and seeing what we will probably become reality.

Those of you calling for Lebby to be fired seem to forget all the just stupid and ridiculous boneheaded things Mullen did. LSU in 2015 ring a bell, we just couldn't call a timeout. That's one ridiculous example that you guys would be railing Lebby for and Dan was 7 years into his head coaching career.

Yeah. I'm irritated and disappointed and frustrated.

But, what I see is a team that doesn't know how to put their foot on someone's throat and kick it in, what I see is a team that is tremendously hampered by a QB that for reason I don't know cannot hit his target like he should 7 games into the seasons. We should have gone into halftime 21/28-10. If not more, I think they would have quit.

What you guys aren't seeing is coaches putting the players in position to win and then just not winning. That's talent, focus whatever you want to put it on.

What you are seeing is the drudge of a roster still being turned over.

Did you guys forget that Mullen wouldn't play a younger player to save his life. And you guys are mad at a second year coach playing a guy that has won a lot of money to play, and you are mad at him for that.

What you are mad at is seeing a 2-10 team a season ago that is a few terrible plays away from being 6-1 and it sucks.

Sometimes it just sucks. We have to be better at QB moving forward. I hope and pray Shapen can land that long ball soon we can win some freaking games if he does.

Also, don't forget what Lebby and co have done on the defensive side of the ball. That's crazy.

Give it time.

[Quaoarsking]

Dan Mullen won 7 SEC games in his first 2 years. If Lebby was on pace for that, we could forgive a few coaching mistakes and there.

[Todd4State]

Dan Mullen won 7 SEC games in his first 2 years. If Lebby was on pace for that, we could forgive a few coaching mistakes and there.

Dan also didn't take over for Arnett. Croom left our program in decent shape.

[Quaoarsking]

Dan also didn't take over for Arnett. Croom left our program in decent shape.

Sure, but it was pretty obvious by end of Dan Mullen's first season that he was going to be a good coach for us. Not a perfect one, but a good one, and he proved even more by the midpoint of year 2.

Lebby hasn't done anything like that, not even close. I still have hope that he figures it out, but he just hasn't given us any reason for optimism like Mullen did.

[Coursesuper]

Dan Mullen won 7 SEC games in his first 2 years. If Lebby was on pace for that, we could forgive a few coaching mistakes and there.

Dan came into some talent, this staff came into none. It is an apples and watermelon difference.

[Quaoarsking]

Dan came into some talent, this staff came into none. It is an apples and watermelon difference.

And this year, when we have the talent to be 6-1 but Lebby's coaching got us to 4-3 instead? Should we be happy that he didn't also blow the Arizona State game? Or that this year he didn't get his ass kicked by a MAC team?

Look, I hope that Lebby wins a couple more games this year and turns out to be a long-term successful coach for us. I'm just not seeing any reason through 19 games to think he will. Maybe he'll start proving me wrong this Saturday.

[DawgFromOxford]

Coming into the season I thought we would finish 5-7 most likely. 4-8 at worst, 7-5 at best. So we are right about where I thought we would be with games against Texas, Arkansas, and OM still to go. 3 games that I think we have a chance at winning.

I get being mad that we lost 2 games we had the potential to win but I don?t remember anybody predicting us to start the season 6-1. Lebby had some questionable play calls at times but every coach does, and they get magnified in a loss. He also had game winning play calls dialed up and Shapen didn?t execute.

The offense reminds me of our basketball team a couple of years ago where we lived and died on the Josh Hubbard 3. Currently we live and die on Shapen?s deep ball to score or get us in scoring range.

[Maverick91]

And this year, when we have the talent to be 6-1 but Lebby's coaching got us to 4-3 instead? Should we be happy that he didn't also blow the Arizona State game? Or that this year he didn't get his ass kicked by a MAC team?

Look, I hope that Lebby wins a couple more games this year and turns out to be a long-term successful coach for us. I'm just not seeing any reason through 19 games to think he will. Maybe he'll start proving me wrong this Saturday.

I disagree with your first paragraph. Lebby has called the right plays to be 6-1 Shapen has missed the balls that shouldn't have been missed, hand off instead of scoop and score against Tennessee, and the three terrible TD throws last night. The plays were dialed up correctly. Shapen didn't execute.

[msstate7]

I disagree with your first paragraph. Lebby has called the right plays to be 6-1 Shapen has missed the balls that shouldn't have been missed, hand off instead of scoop and score against Tennessee, and the three terrible TD throws last night. The plays were dialed up correctly. Shapen didn't execute.

If only there were a way to get a different qb this past offseason

[Coursesuper]

And this year, when we have the talent to be 6-1 but Lebby's coaching got us to 4-3 instead? Should we be happy that he didn't also blow the Arizona State game? Or that this year he didn't get his ass kicked by a MAC team?

Look, I hope that Lebby wins a couple more games this year and turns out to be a long-term successful coach for us. I'm just not seeing any reason through 19 games to think he will. Maybe he'll start proving me wrong this Saturday.

No, we do not have the players yet. If we did we would be 6-1. We are still missing players in order to win right now, mainly at QB and on the DL. But we are vastly improved and the players are in position to make plays but it?s not happening yet. I feel like it?s going to happen just not on many folks around here?s timeline.

[Quaoarsking]

If only there were a way to get a different qb this past offseason

Lebby tried pretty hard to get a big name QB transfer and failed. In hindsight, it should have been a huge red flag.

Edit - To be fair, that failure is probably a function of our NIL not being good enough than on Lebby personally though.

[msstate7]

Lebby tried pretty hard to get a big name QB transfer and failed. In hindsight, it should have been a huge red flag.

Edit - To be fair, that failure is probably a function of our NIL not being good enough than on Lebby personally though.

There's guys out there. OM found one in D2 that can run lane's offense

[msstate7]

We basically need a guy that move the chains with his legs and hit the hr ball. I woulda preferred keeping MVB over Shapen and Luke

[DEDawg]

If only there were a way to get a different qb this past offseason

Write the check

[Quaoarsking]

We basically need a guy that move the chains with his legs and hit the hr ball. I woulda preferred keeping MVB over Shapen and Luke

I've heard that MVB primarily left because we were pursuing Jackson Arnold instead of committing to him, but then we ended up with neither. If that's true, that's really frustrating.

[DEDawg]

We basically need a guy that move the chains with his legs and hit the hr ball. I woulda preferred keeping MVB over Shapen and Luke

1.2M for MVB. Shapen and Luke making 600k. Write the check for the difference.

[DEDawg]

I've heard that MVB primarily left because we were pursuing Jackson Arnold instead of committing to him, but then we ended up with neither. If that's true, that's really frustrating.

MVB left because we would not pay him 1.2. This is the world we live in now.

[msstate7]

1.2M for MVB. Shapen and Luke making 600k. Write the check for the difference.

What was the deal for Arnold that we had lined up?

[DEDawg]

What was the deal for Arnold that we had lined up?

Not 2M that AU gave him

[msstate7]

Not 2M that AU gave him

It wasn't 600k either

[R2Dawg]

Dan also didn't take over for Arnett. Croom left our program in decent shape.

There was some talent on the team but the program had had one winning season in what 7 years? Croom was a disaster, lost the fan base, etc. Today NIL, transfer just can't compare the two eras.

Mullen proved in year one he made a huge difference. With a more favorable OC games we go bowling in year 1. Just can't compare both eras.

[DEDawg]

It wasn't 600k either

We didnt have the money to buy Arnold. So why didn?t you write a check so we can go get someone better than Shapen? See how dumb this argument is? If we have more money we have a better team. That simple.

[Quaoarsking]

I disagree with the notion that you can't point out deficiencies in our roster if you can't afford to fix them personally.

[msstate7]

We didnt have the money to buy Arnold. So why didn?t you write a check so we can go get someone better than Shapen? See how dumb this argument is? If we have more money we have a better team. That simple.

We thought we had Arnold, so we did have the money till it went up.

While I don't give a ton, I do give. At what money level can I have an opinion?

[Coursesuper]

We thought we had Arnold, so we did have the money till it went up.

While I don't give a ton, I do give. At what money level can I have an opinion?

Without a doubt two of the most tone deaf post ever made on this board. Watch of the fellas the that forest is dense.

[EdwardDrayton]

I disagree with the notion that you can't point out deficiencies in our roster if you can't afford to fix them personally.

^^^^^

[msstate7]

Without a doubt two of the most tone deaf post ever made on this board. Watch of the fellas the that forest is dense.

Can you post anything but insults toward me? You really don't bother me bc I'm fine not getting pats on the back here, but you add literally nothing to a discussion.

[DEDawg]

We thought we had Arnold, so we did have the money till it went up.

While I don't give a ton, I do give. At what money level can I have an opinion?

This is literally my point. You said if only there was a way to get another qb this offseason. I will assume you mean one better than Shapen. Looks like that number is at least $1.2M. We were wiling to go higher than that for JA but not up to 2M. If we wanted a better qb someone has to write the check. Also if we spent 1.5 on a QB you can say goodbye to 2-3 other starters

[msstate7]

This is literally my point. You said if only there was a way to get another qb this offseason. I will assume you mean one better than Shapen. Looks like that number is at least $1.2M. We were wiling to go higher than that for JA but not up to 2M. If we wanted a better qb someone has to write the check. Also if we spent 1.5 on a QB you can say goodbye to 2-3 other starters

So, we indeed did have more than 600k for a qb. Thanks.

BTW, chambliss (#8 nationally in qbr) signed for 500k

[DEDawg]

I disagree with the notion that you can't point out deficiencies in our roster if you can't afford to fix them personally.

Of course. But some people either refuse or can?t be objective and think we have what we have because our coach is stupid and just decided to sit on his hands this offseason cause he loves Shapen so much. That guy cant have a good faith discussion so much easier to argue down, therefore my comment is he can go write the check. Dumb it down for him what needs to be done.

[DEDawg]

So, we indeed did have more than 600k for a qb. Thanks.

BTW, chambliss (#8 nationally in qbr) signed for 500k
Yes I have said that 3 times now. We had more than 600k. We did not have enough to buy JA or the other highly ranked transfers. Write the check so we can.

[msstate7]

Yes I have said that 3 times now. We had more than 600k. We did not have enough to buy JA or the other highly ranked transfers. Write the check so we can.

I just posted one that was cheap. Lane found one.

[Coursesuper]

Can you post anything but insults toward me? You really don't bother me bc I'm fine not getting pats on the back here, but you add literally nothing to a discussion.

That?s just it, your discussion points are mostly inane and do not deserve any valid response. This is endlessly pointed out to you by countless other poster here and you never get the point. You are incapable of understanding anything other than what you have already made up your mind on. Therefore consider this me pointing and laughing at you and your breathtakingly ignorant comments and statements. I have had enough of you now, good evening.

[DEDawg]

I just posted one that was cheap. Lane found one.
Why did every other D1 program who needed a QB not offer him? Why did Ole Miss let us get Kelley Jones? If you are expecting your coach to be omnipotent in the portal you are gonna hate whoever we hire next too.

[msstate7]

That?s just it, your discussion points are mostly inane and do not deserve any valid response. This is endlessly pointed out to you by countless other poster here and you never get the point. You are incapable of understanding anything other than what you have already made up your mind on. Therefore consider this me pointing and laughing at you and your breathtakingly ignorant comments and statements. I have had enough of you now, good evening.

My discussion points...

Shapen is bad, and paying him was a mistake.
Our coach should have a conf winning % above 0.

[msstate7]

Well the season will play out, and either I or you guys will be proven right. Really hope I'm the one that's wrong about 4-8

[TrapGame]

Well the season will play out, and either I or you guys will be proven right. Really hope I'm the one that's wrong about 4-8

Just put some Dale's on your crow if if happens. ***

[msstate7]

Just put some Dale's on your crow if if happens. ***

Man, I will. I've owned my Jans' DA comments for years now. That was a Florida loss that lit my fuse then also, ironically

[EdwardDrayton]

Can you post anything but insults toward me? You really don't bother me bc I'm fine not getting pats on the back here, but you add literally nothing to a discussion.

That's his modus operandi. Always has been.

[StarkVegasSteve]

It wasn't 600k either

Between 1.2-1.5

[StarkVegasSteve]

I just posted one that was cheap. Lane found one.

And if Lebby would have brought in a D2 kid people like you would have mutinied and said he had no clue what he was doing. You have made up your mind on Lebby just like you did on Jans.

[msstate7]

And if Lebby would have brought in a D2 kid people like you would have mutinied and said he had no clue what he was doing. You have made up your mind on Lebby just like you did on Jans.

He has 5 more chances to prove me wrong. Maybe he will. Hopefully he will.

[Coach34]

What was the deal for Arnold that we had lined up?

We promised Arnold $1MM. Auburn doubled it

[StarkVegasSteve]

He has 5 more chances to prove me wrong. Maybe he will. Hopefully he will.

I believe he will. I think we find a way to 6. Lebby called a hell of a game yesterday and Shapen has shown the ability to hit the deep ball. Those will not be incompletions every time. I actually think our offense is going to give Texas all sorts of issues.

[msstate7]

I believe he will. I think we find a way to 6. Lebby called a hell of a game yesterday and Shapen has shown the ability to hit the deep ball. Those will not be incompletions every time. I actually think our offense is going to give Texas all sorts of issues.

Now that will be very surprising. This will be the best defense we've saw this season by far

[StarkVegasSteve]

Now that will be very surprising. This will be the best defense we've saw this season by far

We gave them issues last year too and had far worse offensive line. And I think they had a slightly better defense. The deep shots were there last year, our receivers just dropped two of them.

[msstate7]

We gave them issues last year too and had far worse offensive line. And I think they had a slightly better defense. The deep shots were there last year, our receivers just dropped two of them.

Better give him time. Texas gets after the qb

[StarkVegasSteve]

Better give him time. Texas gets after the qb

They do. But I know Lebby will have a great game plan. Hell he had an incredible game plan yesterday, we just missed 3 throws.

[msstate7]

They do. But I know Lebby will have a great game plan. Hell he had an incredible game plan yesterday, we just missed 3 throws.

And he handled tenn's pressure pretty well. aTm completed dominated us with their pressure

[confucius say]

Dan Mullen won 7 SEC games in his first 2 years. If Lebby was on pace for that, we could forgive a few coaching mistakes and there.

He also took over a roster in 2009 full of nfl guys.
Lebby took over a dumpster fire.

[bulldawg28]

If only there were a way to get a different qb this past offseason

Lebby let our answer for Qb this year leave for LSU. The true freshman last year played better than our 6th year senior has this year.

[bulldawg28]

We promised Arnold $1MM. Auburn doubled it

Thank God because he's not worth it.

[parabrave]

Lebby let our answer for Qb this year leave for LSU. The true freshman last year played better than our 6th year senior has this year.

And Kelley keeps on trotting out a wounded duck every week who can't throw with any velocity nor run instead of MVB who has starting experience.

[Bothrops]

Look I am not happy. We should be 6-1 right now and in the thick of SEC championship conversation. But we are not, and it sucks. We are 4-3 and it sucks. It sucks losing in a manner than you know you should have won. It sucks knowing what we had potential to do and seeing what we will probably become reality.

Those of you calling for Lebby to be fired seem to forget all the just stupid and ridiculous boneheaded things Mullen did. LSU in 2015 ring a bell, we just couldn't call a timeout. That's one ridiculous example that you guys would be railing Lebby for and Dan was 7 years into his head coaching career.

Yeah. I'm irritated and disappointed and frustrated.

But, what I see is a team that doesn't know how to put their foot on someone's throat and kick it in, what I see is a team that is tremendously hampered by a QB that for reason I don't know cannot hit his target like he should 7 games into the seasons. We should have gone into halftime 21/28-10. If not more, I think they would have quit.

What you guys aren't seeing is coaches putting the players in position to win and then just not winning. That's talent, focus whatever you want to put it on.

What you are seeing is the drudge of a roster still being turned over.

Did you guys forget that Mullen wouldn't play a younger player to save his life. And you guys are mad at a second year coach playing a guy that has won a lot of money to play, and you are mad at him for that.

What you are mad at is seeing a 2-10 team a season ago that is a few terrible plays away from being 6-1 and it sucks.

Sometimes it just sucks. We have to be better at QB moving forward. I hope and pray Shapen can land that long ball soon we can win some freaking games if he does.

Also, don't forget what Lebby and co have done on the defensive side of the ball. That's crazy.

Give it time.

I'm not giving up on Lebby yet, I just don't know if anyone can win here (that we could get) in post BCS college football. I have serious doubts. The money has already gotten retarded and the competition embraces that. We don't, and that's a problem. It's a cultural thing with us. It's reckless, it's flashy, and the whole NIL era is dishonest. We have to spend 25-30 million dollars for a bowl worthy roster every season now. I'm I wrong? Have you seen the high school recruits from Mississippi lately? Like the top 20? Yeah, they lost interest in us awfully fast.

[Maverick91]

I'm not giving up on Lebby yet, I just don't know if anyone can win here (that we could get) in post BCS college football. I have serious doubts. The money has already gotten retarded and the competition embraces that. We don't, and that's a problem. It's a cultural thing with us. It's reckless, it's flashy, and the whole NIL era is dishonest. We have to spend 25-30 million dollars for a bowl worthy roster every season now. I'm I wrong? Have you seen the high school recruits from Mississippi lately? Like the top 20? Yeah, they lost interest in us awfully fast.

I don't disagree with you at all. To save the sport and honestly culture in general legislation has to be passed to rain this in. It's the Wild West. This is the type of mess that destroyed Rome, and is destroying college football. You can only ask middle income America to watch kids for so long who haven't proven anything, do nothing while earning more money than a lot will touch in our lifetime before the needs of the family and life itself overtakes the itch of dying enjoyment of Saturday sports.

There's a reason why John Adam's said our nation was only built for a moral and religious people. Not saying any of these folks are not moral and religious, but we have clearly flipped the table on its head for the purpose of college athletics, and it is only about money now. There is nothing in the education, coaches cannot really coach and teach these kids life lessons now for fear of jumping in the portal.

It is a disgusting destruction of what was the last beauty of amateur sports.

[StarkVegasSteve]

I don't disagree with you at all. To save the sport and honestly culture in general legislation has to be passed to rain this in. It's the Wild West. This is the type of mess that destroyed Rome, and is destroying college football. You can only ask middle income America to watch kids for so long who haven't proven anything, do nothing while earning more money than a lot will touch in our lifetime before the needs of the family and life itself overtakes the itch of dying enjoyment of Saturday sports.

There's a reason why John Adam's said our nation was only built for a moral and religious people. Not saying any of these folks are not moral and religious, but we have clearly flipped the table on its head for the purpose of college athletics, and it is only about money now. There is nothing in the education, coaches cannot really coach and teach these kids life lessons now for fear of jumping in the portal.

It is a disgusting destruction of what was the last beauty of amateur sports.

Players have been getting paid since the beginning of college athletics, and that includes at Mississippi State. Dak was paid a pretty good sum to stay his senior year. Chris Jones had a monthly allowance. Bear Wilson was paid and let EVERYONE know. The payments are just legal and above the table now. That's literally the only difference.

[msstate7]

Players have been getting paid since the beginning of college athletics, and that includes at Mississippi State. Dak was paid a pretty good sum to stay his senior year. Chris Jones had a monthly allowance. Bear Wilson was paid and let EVERYONE know. The payments are just legal and above the table now. That's literally the only difference.

Only difference, huh? Yeah, free agency every year is nothing new

[StarkVegasSteve]

Only difference, huh? Yeah, free agency every year is nothing new

I mean players have always been able to transfer as well. And some were even paid to transfer. The immediate eligibility thing is where they screwed up. If they would just revert back to one free transfer and then you have to sit out I think things would calm down some.

[msstate7]

I mean players have always been able to transfer as well. And some were even paid to transfer. The immediate eligibility thing is where they screwed up. If they would just revert back to one free transfer and then you have to sit out I think things would calm down some.

They went from the following...

Players have leverage in recruiting and schools have leverage once you sign. Now players have leverage at all times. Unless you have a check on the players, the system will fail at some point

[StarkVegasSteve]

They went from the following...

Players have leverage in recruiting and schools have leverage once you sign. Now players have leverage at all times. Unless you have a check on the players, the system will fail at some point

None of what you've said is wrong. The pendulum swung far too much to the players side and they are not going to let it go back. Why would they? I wouldn't if before I was making a couple grand a month to know making 5-10K a month. We have PLAYERS living in the nicest subdivisions in Starkville.

[msstate7]

None of what you've said is wrong. The pendulum swung far too much to the players side and they are not going to let it go back. Why would they? I wouldn't if before I was making a couple grand a month to know making 5-10K a month. We have PLAYERS living in the nicest subdivisions in Starkville.

You just make signings binding for both sides. Sign a player, keep a player for 2-3 seasons. If you get rid of said player, you lose that scholarship. If you leave before that period is up, well, you sit till it is.

[R2Dawg]

I don't disagree with you at all. To save the sport and honestly culture in general legislation has to be passed to rain this in. It's the Wild West. This is the type of mess that destroyed Rome, and is destroying college football. You can only ask middle income America to watch kids for so long who haven't proven anything, do nothing while earning more money than a lot will touch in our lifetime before the needs of the family and life itself overtakes the itch of dying enjoyment of Saturday sports.

There's a reason why John Adam's said our nation was only built for a moral and religious people. Not saying any of these folks are not moral and religious, but we have clearly flipped the table on its head for the purpose of college athletics, and it is only about money now. There is nothing in the education, coaches cannot really coach and teach these kids life lessons now for fear of jumping in the portal.

It is a disgusting destruction of what was the last beauty of amateur sports.

Yep you nailed it. It is a catch 22 now too and a bubble that will burst. Fans demand a ROI for investment, coaches and players get paid results or not. So coaches get fired quickly, players leave quickly. It will collapse at some point.

[Maverick91]

Players have been getting paid since the beginning of college athletics, and that includes at Mississippi State. Dak was paid a pretty good sum to stay his senior year. Chris Jones had a monthly allowance. Bear Wilson was paid and let EVERYONE know. The payments are just legal and above the table now. That's literally the only difference.

And I understand that. But it having to be under the table at least gave room for the other aspect that are purposeful for college to have a seat at the table.