The hiring of Rick Ray

[campmore]

After Scott Stricklin fired Rick Stansbury he had Marcus Grant, Phil Cunningham and George Brooks clean out their offices. What has interested me is how Scott decided to hire Rick Ray. Scott interviewed Kermit Davis at the final four. The first time Scott interviewed Rick Ray was at the final four on Friday. He was announced as our head coach on Sunday. Bill Self the head coach of Kansas had called Scott to interview his top assistant Joe Dooley. Dooley had been Selfs top assistant for years and very much wanted the MSU job. Scott would not interview him. Scott offered the job to 4 other people before Rick Ray. People would not take the job because of their concern in following Rick Stansbury and his winning an average of 21 games a year. Scott also said we would not involve AAU basketball and wanted to "clean up the program". Of course the program was never on probation under either Richard Williams or Rick Stansbury but we currently are on probation in football under Dan Mullen. Which brings me to Rick Ray. How did Scott decide to hire a coach at Clemson who was coming off a 16 and 15 record? He had no connections to Mississippi or the SEC. He had never been a head coach before or sucessfully recruited players from the South. I asked many successful high school and college coaches right after we hired him and nobody had heard of him. At this point Rick Ray is our coach but in the future if he is not our head coach do you feel confident with Scott Stricklin making the coaching hire?

[gtowndawg]

No reason to hash it out but I have 0 confidence in Stricklin doing much of anything other than marketing and some fundraising.


After Scott Stricklin fired Rick Stansbury he had Marcus Grant, Phil Cunningham and George Brooks clean out their offices. What has interested me is how Scott decided to hire Rick Ray. Scott interviewed Kermit Davis at the final four. The first time Scott interviewed Rick Ray was at the final four on Friday. He was announced as our head coach on Sunday. Bill Self the head coach of Kansas had called Scott to interview his top assistant Joe Dooley. Dooley had been Selfs top assistant for years and very much wanted the MSU job. Scott would not interview him. Scott offered the job to 4 other people before Rick Ray. People would not take the job because of their concern in following Rick Stansbury and his winning an average of 21 games a year. Scott also said we would not involve AAU basketball and wanted to "clean up the program". Of course the program was never on probation under either Richard Williams or Rick Stansbury but we currently are on probation in football under Dan Mullen. Which brings me to Rick Ray. How did Scott decide to hire a coach at Clemson who was coming off a 16 and 15 record? He had no connections to Mississippi or the SEC. He had never been a head coach before or sucessfully recruited players from the South. I asked many successful high school and college coaches right after we hired him and nobody had heard of him. At this point Rick Ray is our coach but in the future if he is not our head coach do you feel confident with Scott Stricklin making the coaching hire?

[preachermatt83]

No reason to hash it out but I have 0 confidence in Stricklin doing much of anything other than marketing and some fundraising.

+1

[HoopsDawg]

After Scott Stricklin fired Rick Stansbury he had Marcus Grant, Phil Cunningham and George Brooks clean out their offices. What has interested me is how Scott decided to hire Rick Ray. Scott interviewed Kermit Davis at the final four. The first time Scott interviewed Rick Ray was at the final four on Friday. He was announced as our head coach on Sunday. Bill Self the head coach of Kansas had called Scott to interview his top assistant Joe Dooley. Dooley had been Selfs top assistant for years and very much wanted the MSU job. Scott would not interview him. Scott offered the job to 4 other people before Rick Ray. People would not take the job because of their concern in following Rick Stansbury and his winning an average of 21 games a year. Scott also said we would not involve AAU basketball and wanted to "clean up the program". Of course the program was never on probation under either Richard Williams or Rick Stansbury but we currently are on probation in football under Dan Mullen. Which brings me to Rick Ray. How did Scott decide to hire a coach at Clemson who was coming off a 16 and 15 record? He had no connections to Mississippi or the SEC. He had never been a head coach before or sucessfully recruited players from the South. I asked many successful high school and college coaches right after we hired him and nobody had heard of him. At this point Rick Ray is our coach but in the future if he is not our head coach do you feel confident with Scott Stricklin making the coaching hire?

You can't really blame Ray for the poor record at Clemson b/c he wasn't the head coach or even the top assistant. He was the #2 bench coach was he not?

[mic]

This hire is 100% on Strick .. And I agree my confident level in SS as our AD isn't very high..
But saying that we are still better off with RR as our head coach than Stands..

[HoopsDawg]

This hire is 100% on Strick .. And I agree my confident level in SS as our AD isn't very high..
But saying that we are still better off with RR as our head coach than Stands..

Well, I guess the 1 year grace period for Ray is over, LOL.

[gravedigger]

When do you plan on replacing Stricklin?

[Quaoarsking]

Oh. This thread again.

[mic]

Well, I guess the 1 year grace period for Ray is over, LOL.

where did I say that.?? he will get his 3 or 4 years if we aren't there then , we move on..
I swear the RR haters almost seem like they want us to lose...

[Coach34]

Scott offered the job to 4 other people before Rick Ray. People would not take the job because of their concern in following Rick Stansbury and his winning an average of 21 games a year.


Scott also said we would not involve AAU basketball and wanted to "clean up the program". Of course the program was never on probation under either Richard Williams or Rick Stansbury but we currently are on probation in football under Dan Mullen.

That first sentence is incorrect. Other coaches didnt accept the job because of the rumors of extensive drug problems and a severe lack of discipline within the program. Now then, your 2nd sentence is correct. And the way that presented to some of the coaches turned them off to the job also.

Lastly, we havent been on probation in basketball because it's damn near impossible to go on probation in basketball. Bruce Pearl has to be the biggest idiot out there. When boosters can distribute money to fund AAU programs, and those funds distributed to players- you have to be a moron to get caught buying players.

[Coach34]

I swear the RR haters almost seem like they want us to lose...

almost???

[BogeyGolfer]

After Scott Stricklin fired Rick Stansbury he had Marcus Grant, Phil Cunningham and George Brooks clean out their offices. What has interested me is how Scott decided to hire Rick Ray. Scott interviewed Kermit Davis at the final four. The first time Scott interviewed Rick Ray was at the final four on Friday. He was announced as our head coach on Sunday. Bill Self the head coach of Kansas had called Scott to interview his top assistant Joe Dooley. Dooley had been Selfs top assistant for years and very much wanted the MSU job. Scott would not interview him. Scott offered the job to 4 other people before Rick Ray. People would not take the job because of their concern in following Rick Stansbury and his winning an average of 21 games a year. Scott also said we would not involve AAU basketball and wanted to "clean up the program". Of course the program was never on probation under either Richard Williams or Rick Stansbury but we currently are on probation in football under Dan Mullen. Which brings me to Rick Ray. How did Scott decide to hire a coach at Clemson who was coming off a 16 and 15 record? He had no connections to Mississippi or the SEC. He had never been a head coach before or sucessfully recruited players from the South. I asked many successful high school and college coaches right after we hired him and nobody had heard of him. At this point Rick Ray is our coach but in the future if he is not our head coach do you feel confident with Scott Stricklin making the coaching hire?
If you pull archives, I was the one on SPS who broke the news that we were in contact with Dooley. I was told he was our guy. I supported the decision to fire Stands, and I'm willing to give Ray time but I've seen regression so far this year.... It doesn't look good for Ray especially since he doesn't have the support of our big boosters.

[Bucky Dog]

Apparently the job was Bryce Drew's and he had told his family as much until SS gave him the, "Oh yeah, no AAU for us anymore!" Then he politely declined. I wonder if we go back after him and if he would even consider us, assuming it doesn't work out with RR in another year or two.

[engie]

We needed another thread on this...

http://www.elitedawgs.com/showthread.php?10306-Florida-Gulf-Coast-Coach

[HoopsDawg]

Apparently the job was Bryce Drew's and he had told his family as much until SS gave him the, "Oh yeah, no AAU for us anymore!" Then he politely declined. I wonder if we go back after him and if he would even consider us, assuming it doesn't work out with RR in another year or two.

AAU is the feeder system for college basketball. There are no recruits without AAU. Surely Stricklin isn't that na?ve.

[Coach34]

AAU is the feeder system for college basketball. There are no recruits without AAU. Surely Stricklin isn't that na?ve.

Our Admin did a few interviews with former players about "what brought them to State"....we made a deliberate decision to move away from that formula. To me, this looks like an experiment to see if we can really do it "the right way"

[MarketingBully01]

Yep, and this will blow up to the point where the next head coach will literally have no where to go but up. Talking about Bob Boyd bad. You can't run a program and be successful in college basketball without playing the game. I mean heck this shit has been going on since the Jordan days in college basketball. When you are recruiting against the likes of Cal and his posse. This choice of a direction should get Stricklin fired. It was just bad all the way around.

[HailState39110]

If you want to play Division 1 basketball you've got to play the AAU game. If Stricklin wants to do this way let's move to Division II or NAIA and call it a day . The bottom 5 guys on scholarship on our roster (although probably nice guys) should be playing at Delta state or Belhaven . Recruiting talent is the only way to draw the our fanbase back and get butts back in the seats

[HailState39110]

Bryce Drews brother is Scott Drew, the head coach at Baylor . If anyone knows how to use and abuse the AAU circuit it's Scott Drew . that dude has pulled in some major talent at Baylor . It's amazing how they can sign some of the players they do

[codeDawg]

Our Admin did a few interviews with former players about "what brought them to State"....we made a deliberate decision to move away from that formula. To me, this looks like an experiment to see if we can really do it "the right way"

It's really sad to see Ray put in this shitty position. It's going to ruin his career and he appears to be a pretty good coach. You just can't win without players and it's almost impossible to get players without playing the AAU game. Sad for everybody involved and I hope it catches up with Strickland.

[smootness]

Someone please clarify what you mean when you say 'no more AAU'. Because as of now, it sounds like a whole lot of conjecture considering that essentially every D1 basketball recruit, including all of ours, play AAU basketball.

[engie]

It basically meant that we were going to do what we could to stop the paying of players in basketball. Not that we were going going to stop recruiting from AAU -- but we were going to stop playing the AAU "game" so to speak.

[DoinItDoggyStyle]

You people realize Maurice Dunlap plays on the AAU Jackson Tigers team with Malik right?

[codeDawg]

Someone please clarify what you mean when you say 'no more AAU'. Because as of now, it sounds like a whole lot of conjecture considering that essentially every D1 basketball recruit, including all of ours, play AAU basketball.

Most football recruits have high school coaches that can help guide them through the recruitment process and because these guys are employed by the state and school system usually don't take influential benefits to help sway players. Basketball is all about AAU and a large percentage of those coaches only do what they do to get paid. They also funnel a huge amount of money directly to the families of kids or influencers of kids. If you don't take care of the coaches, you don't get the players. Every team (or boosters for a team) that isn't losing is ass off in America plays the game.

We'll get some players, but we won't get enough to be worth a damn as long as we don't play the game. Ray is screwed, but it's going to take 4 more years to realize it.

Read "Play Their Hearts Out" if you are interested in taking a look at AAU basketball, although it's a much bigger deal now than it was when the events in that book were happening.

[Quaoarsking]

Hey, lets regurgitate the "no more AAU!" myth again! We'll just ignore the fact that all of his recruits have been AAU players and all that...

[Coach34]

Someone please clarify what you mean when you say 'no more AAU'. Because as of now, it sounds like a whole lot of conjecture considering that essentially every D1 basketball recruit, including all of ours, play AAU basketball.

Not all AAU programs are run the same

In it's simplistic form- boosters can donate money to AAU programs. Those programs then funnel money to specific recruits the funds were earmarked for- with the Coach getting his cut. That's how coaches of certain AAU programs do that as their one and only job.

[Dawg61]

It's not sad at all. Ray has a million+ salary for an SEC school with a good history in basketball. He doesn't have to go without a fight. Hire 3 new assistants with one being a great teacher of shooting and get 4 new better players with one being Pollard. Do that and he'll be in the NIT next year. Don't do that and he'll end up fired. It's that simple. Does Ray want his job or not? We'll all know the answer to that soon enough.

[drunkernhelldawg]

I don't think Ray has any shot if SS thinks he has to micromanage the basketball program. We've got to trust our coach to do his job, and we've got to make sure that everyone knows that he has the authority to do it. SS, keep yourself and your minions out of the basketball locker room. Let our coach rule the roost and see what he can do with our team.

[MadDawg]

almost???

Yes. Almost as much as the Stansbury haters wanted to see us lose. And not quite as much as the Croom haters wanted us to lose. But definitely more than the Mullen haters wanted us to lose - they haven't had as much practice. Yet.

[MadDawg]

If you want to play Division 1 basketball

I think a lot of our fans decided they don't really want to play D1 basketball anymore. We don't have the stomach for it.

[notsofarawaydawg]

Renardo Sydney = Play the AAU game

Don't want no more of that shit on board for sure.

[rabbitthedawg]

This hire is 100% on Strick .. And I agree my confident level in SS as our AD isn't very high..
But saying that we are still better off with RR as our head coach than Stands..

Better off? Let's see. Stans averaged around 20 wins per season, had us in one of the tournaments most every year, we battled with Florida and Kentucky for the SEC championship many times and now we can't draw 2,000 fans to the Hump, nor has RR recruited any quality players for the future. Better off? Sounds as if you're getting exactly what you wished for!

[Coach34]

Better off? Let's see. Stans averaged around 20 wins per season, had us in one of the tournaments most every year, we battled with Florida and Kentucky for the SEC championship many times !

Stands also was cussed by players in public
Ignored during time-outs
Hawaiian Punch
Renardo Sidney on TV walking up and down the court
Ridiculous amounts of drug use
Suspensions

Ray inherited the program at rock bottom- he deserves a little time to bring it back

[MarketingBully01]

Renardo was gone after that year anyway so the point would have been moot. He was the biggest cancer on that team. He single handedly IMO brought Coach Stansbury down. Drug use runs rampent at every university. It was not just an "MSU" problem. When Ray isn't successful, how long until you jump on him like you did Stans?

[Coach34]

Renardo was gone after that year anyway so the point would have been moot. He was the biggest cancer on that team. He single handedly IMO brought Coach Stansbury down. Drug use runs rampent at every university. It was not just an "MSU" problem. When Ray isn't successful, how long until you jump on him like you did Stans?

Ray gets 4 years from me. Last year showed me alot and was reason for optimism, but so far this season has been underwhelming. I expected to be better on defense and a little better offensively. But there is also a long way to go- and the SEC is weak as usual. Got to let it play out and remember this is still a very young basketball team.

[engie]

Renardo was gone after that year anyway so the point would have been moot. He was the biggest cancer on that team. He single handedly IMO brought Coach Stansbury down. Drug use runs rampent at every university. It was not just an "MSU" problem. When Ray isn't successful, how long until you jump on him like you did Stans?

And Kodi was gone 2 years before that -- and that was going to fix the damn attitude problem on the team too**

Ray gets this year as a free pass. Next year, the expectations are Stansbury levels -- and it will be make-or-break time for him.

[tcdog70]

Stands also was cussed by players in public
Ignored during time-outs
Hawaiian Punch
Renardo Sidney on TV walking up and down the court
Ridiculous amounts of drug use
Suspensions

Ray inherited the program at rock bottom- he deserves a little time to bring it back


We all know Sidney was a cancer. But "Ridiculous amounts of drug use" come on. Any team in the USA had players that smoke weed. Can you document your claim. What is Ridiculous drug use? it seems like Ray has had more suspensions that Stansbury.. Sidney could walk up and down the court and score more and rebound more that our current Big men. Why was our program at rock bottom? Rock Bottom is Auburn, South Carolina, Georgia and our Rick Ray coached team. A bad Stans team was never rock bottom.

[fishwater99]

It's really sad to see Ray put in this shitty position. It's going to ruin his career and he appears to be a pretty good coach. You just can't win without players and it's almost impossible to get players without playing the AAU game. Sad for everybody involved and I hope it catches up with Strickland.

SS will just blame Rick Ray for his failures and hire another coach in 2 years. Maybe next time we will get a coach that plays the AAU game with connections.
I have no confidence in our former High School cheerleader and Basketball manager AD...

[Coach34]

Why was our program at rock bottom? .

Because Stands let it get that way. The Sporting News didnt label us "the most dysfunctional program in America" for no reason. That is pathetic. That is embarrassing. You Stands-Lovers always gloss over that for some reason. "The most dysfunctional program in America"- that's how we were being viewed by outsiders.

You guys are defending that shit because Stands won 1 NCAA Tourney game in his last 7 seasons. 1 Tourney win in 7 years.

[engie]

We all know Sidney was a cancer. But "Ridiculous amounts of drug use" come on. Any team in the USA had players that smoke weed. Can you document your claim. What is Ridiculous drug use? it seems like Ray has had more suspensions that Stansbury..

Is this a frigging joke?

We've had FOUR players dismissed for reasons related to drug abuse in the last year and a half. We had at least 2 more guys serve suspensions for it. We've literally got ONE Stansbury player left on this team period.

[smootness]

it seems like Ray has had more suspensions that Stansbury..

That is almost certainly not an indication that our coach is still letting things slide; in fact, it's probably the opposite.

[MarketingBully01]

Ahh yes, the multiple free pass guys are back. If this sport were football or a sport the majority of our fans cared about, the Ray experiment would not have been allowed to happen. I just don't get our fans. We have never been this bad since some of you were born and you are laying blame all on Stans for this. Heck, players Stans recruited are the only ones keeping this team from being 0fers and a complete meltdown of a program. We haven't been this bad since the Bob Boyd days in the early 80s.

[engie]

Ahh yes, the multiple free pass guys are back. If this sport were football or a sport the majority of our fans cared about, the Ray experiment would not have been allowed to happen. I just don't get our fans. We have never been this bad since some of you were born and you are laying blame all on Stans for this. Heck, players Stans recruited are the only ones keeping this team from being 0fers and a complete meltdown of a program. We haven't been this bad since the Bob Boyd days in the early 80s.

Are you kidding me? "If basketball was a sport that the majority of our fans cared about"? Yeah -- we care so little that there are what? 10 threads? on the front page of this website about it. Everything you say after this is completely impossible to be taken seriously.

So -- basically -- you want to credit Stansbury for the 3 signees that STUCK WITH RAY when they ALL had other options and could have walked(one DID walk) -- but the tattered shambles of the program that Ray took over were of NO FAULT to the Recruiter? Yeah -- that's a totally logical approach. We got it**

If only we had a fanbase that had taken baseball seriously in 2010, maybe we wouldn't have hired this Cohen idiot -- who ran off all our best playerz and is running a total dumpster fire of a program!!11!1 He's given us the worst 2 years in ANYONE'S lifetimes for MSU baseball!!1!1 Our fans SUCK -- Dudy Noble is a graveyard and will NevAr be the same!!1!1

That's what happens when people jump to conclusions early in a rebuild when a new coach inherits a total dumpster fire. Would you like me to start linking the HUNDREDS of threads on the old yuku SPS giving the blueprint of the fanbase mindset at this exact same point during the baseball rebuild? Because it was identical to this. Yet we never learn from it as a group -- and the same damn thing will happen the next time we let a coach stay 3-5 years too long and drive a program totally into the ground before it gets turned over to a new guy. Hell, I can link one from last year where we had a bunch of our fans saying "8k or less -- our fans don't show up anymore" for SBW that I totally lost my mind in.

[MarketingBully01]

Gotta love your fire here but you are so great at pointing out the Cohen analogy. This would have been like we had hired Raffo. The Raffo/Ray anology works better but since Byrne made a great hire in baseball we can't really compare it because Byrne made the best decision for MSU IMO and it's playing out. Stricklin did not and that will play out as well.

[MadDawg]

And Kodi was gone 2 years before that -- and that was going to fix the damn attitude problem on the team too**

Hopefully one day we'll have a player talented enough to have an attitude.

[fishwater99]

Ahh yes, the multiple free pass guys are back. If this sport were football or a sport the majority of our fans cared about, the Ray experiment would not have been allowed to happen. I just don't get our fans. We have never been this bad since some of you were born and you are laying blame all on Stans for this. Heck, players Stans recruited are the only ones keeping this team from being 0fers and a complete meltdown of a program. We haven't been this bad since the Bob Boyd days in the early 80s.

I blame Stans and Scott. It's not like our AD didn't know what was going on during Stans tenure.
Then Scott made the Ray hire. He is more to blame than anyone for our shitty basketball team.

[engie]

Gotta love your fire here but you are so great at pointing out the Cohen analogy. This would have been like we had hired Raffo. The Raffo/Ray anology works better but since Byrne made a great hire in baseball we can't really compare it because Byrne made the best decision for MSU IMO and it's playing out. Stricklin did not and that will play out as well.

No -- hiring Raffo would have been like hiring Cunningham. Looks like Stricklin WENT OUT ON A LIMB AND DID WHAT HE THOUGHT WAS BEST FOR THE PROGRAM. Whether it was or not -- we will see in time. But to liken hiring Ray to hiring Raffo is a TERRIBLE analogy. They are NOTHING alike.

You are really trying hard to misunderstand the analogy when it is being spelled out for you clearly.

[smootness]

I blame Stans and Scott. It's not like our AD didn't know what was going on during Stans tenure.
Then Scott made the Ray hire. He is more to blame than anyone for our shitty basketball team.

Stricklin was promoted to AD in May of 2010. Stans 'resigned' in March of 2012. So yes, he knew what was going on, and within 2 years he fired him.

It's not as though he could have made a move right when he was promoted; we were coming off our first somewhat down year after 2 straight NCAA Tourney appearances.

Seems to me like Stricklin realized a problem and took care of it. How is he complicit in the issues that happened under Stans' watch?

[C222]

Stans had 4 tourney wins in 14 years. He didn't make the tournament in 2011-12 after starting 12-2 with one of our best lineups ever. Whether Ray is the right guy or not, I'm glad we have an AD who had the balls to get rid of Stans.

[drunkernhelldawg]

Stans had 4 tourney wins in 14 years. He didn't make the tournament in 2011-12 after starting 12-2 with one of our best lineups ever. Whether Ray is the right guy or not, I'm glad we have an AD who had the balls to get rid of Stans.

It is good to have an AD with "balls," but I liked having a competitive basketball team. We may have one again in the future. We may not. But we have an AD with "balls," so I suppose we have to be grateful.

[tcdog70]

Because Stands let it get that way. The Sporting News didnt label us "the most dysfunctional program in America" for no reason. That is pathetic. That is embarrassing. You Stands-Lovers always gloss over that for some reason. "The most dysfunctional program in America"- that's how we were being viewed by outsiders.

You guys are defending that shit because Stands won 1 NCAA Tourney game in his last 7 seasons. 1 Tourney win in 7 years.


here is why I am defending Rick Stansbury

Taking over the helm as the Bulldogs head coach in 1998, Stansbury led his team to post-season tournament play eleven times in fourteen seasons (six NCAA and five NIT tournaments), with five consecutive post-season tournament appearances, the first MSU basketball coach in history to accomplish this feat. His 2001-02 MSU team compiled the most wins in a single season in school history (27). Also achieved the highest National Ranking in school history 2003-04, #2 in the country (finished 26-4). Stansbury also owns MSU's record for consecutive 20-win seasons with four from 2001?05 and again from 2006-10.[5]

Stansbury won more SEC Championships in the last 10 years than any other SEC program except Kentucky 12. Mississippi State 8. (Florida 6) Western Conference Champion: 2003, 2004, 2007, 2008, 2010. SEC Tournament Champion: 2002, 2009. Overall SEC Champion: 2004. Under the leadership of Stansbury, MSU's teams were always a threat in the SEC Tournament, reaching the finals of the tournament four times, winning twice. His SEC Tournament record is 16-12. [6]

From his days as an MSU assistant until 2012, Stansbury has been a part of over 15 postseason tournament appearances. Prior to his arrival at Mississippi State, MSU had two post-seasons in 27 years (both NIT). He is also 21-8 vs conference in-state rival, the Ole Miss Rebels.

[C222]

here is why I am defending Rick Stansbury

Taking over the helm as the Bulldogs head coach in 1998, Stansbury led his team to post-season tournament play eleven times in fourteen seasons (six NCAA and five NIT tournaments), with five consecutive post-season tournament appearances, the first MSU basketball coach in history to accomplish this feat. His 2001-02 MSU team compiled the most wins in a single season in school history (27). Also achieved the highest National Ranking in school history 2003-04, #2 in the country (finished 26-4). Stansbury also owns MSU's record for consecutive 20-win seasons with four from 2001?05 and again from 2006-10.[5]

Stansbury won more SEC Championships in the last 10 years than any other SEC program except Kentucky 12. Mississippi State 8. (Florida 6) Western Conference Champion: 2003, 2004, 2007, 2008, 2010. SEC Tournament Champion: 2002, 2009. Overall SEC Champion: 2004. Under the leadership of Stansbury, MSU's teams were always a threat in the SEC Tournament, reaching the finals of the tournament four times, winning twice. His SEC Tournament record is 16-12. [6]

From his days as an MSU assistant until 2012, Stansbury has been a part of over 15 postseason tournament appearances. Prior to his arrival at Mississippi State, MSU had two post-seasons in 27 years (both NIT). He is also 21-8 vs conference in-state rival, the Ole Miss Rebels.

Check out his last 2 seasons. At what point do you make a change? Should we have just let it continue going down hill?

[War Machine Dawg]

here is why I am defending Rick Stansbury

Taking over the helm as the Bulldogs head coach in 1998, Stansbury led his team to post-season tournament play eleven times in fourteen seasons (six NCAA and five NIT tournaments), with five consecutive post-season tournament appearances, the first MSU basketball coach in history to accomplish this feat. His 2001-02 MSU team compiled the most wins in a single season in school history (27). Also achieved the highest National Ranking in school history 2003-04, #2 in the country (finished 26-4). Stansbury also owns MSU's record for consecutive 20-win seasons with four from 2001?05 and again from 2006-10.[5]

Stansbury won more SEC Championships in the last 10 years than any other SEC program except Kentucky 12. Mississippi State 8. (Florida 6) Western Conference Champion: 2003, 2004, 2007, 2008, 2010. SEC Tournament Champion: 2002, 2009. Overall SEC Champion: 2004. Under the leadership of Stansbury, MSU's teams were always a threat in the SEC Tournament, reaching the finals of the tournament four times, winning twice. His SEC Tournament record is 16-12. [6]

From his days as an MSU assistant until 2012, Stansbury has been a part of over 15 postseason tournament appearances. Prior to his arrival at Mississippi State, MSU had two post-seasons in 27 years (both NIT). He is also 21-8 vs conference in-state rival, the Ole Miss Rebels.

SEC West Championships are about as useful as tits on a boar.

[engie]

SEC West Championships are about as useful as tits on a boar.

I have tits, Greg --- Do you think you could milk me?

[C222]

SEC West Championships are about as useful as tits on a boar.

And I love how they include NIT appearances as some kind of plus to your post season resume.

[drunkernhelldawg]

SEC West Championships are about as useful as tits on a boar.

That was easy to believe when we were in the running for bigger things that we seldom or never reached.

Would you now be in favor of removing the banners that acknowledge those "worthless" championships? We've learned one thing from this disaster: The view from the top beats the view from the bottom every damn time.

[engie]

That was easy to believe when we were in the running for bigger things that we seldom or never reached.

Would you now be in favor of removing the banners that acknowledge those "worthless" championships? We've learned one thing from this disaster: The view from the top beats the view from the bottom every damn time.

The only thing we've learned during this rebuild is that our fans never learn anything -- even when specific instances are cited.

[Coach34]

The only thing we've learned during this rebuild is that our fans never learn anything -- even when specific instances are cited.

+1

[MadDawg]

The only thing we've learned during this rebuild is that our fans never learn anything -- even when specific instances are cited.



We've also learned who doesn't think their shit stinks.

[smootness]

here is why I am defending Rick Stansbury

Taking over the helm as the Bulldogs head coach in 1998, Stansbury led his team to post-season tournament play eleven times in fourteen seasons (six NCAA and five NIT tournaments), with five consecutive post-season tournament appearances, the first MSU basketball coach in history to accomplish this feat. His 2001-02 MSU team compiled the most wins in a single season in school history (27). Also achieved the highest National Ranking in school history 2003-04, #2 in the country (finished 26-4). Stansbury also owns MSU's record for consecutive 20-win seasons with four from 2001?05 and again from 2006-10.[5]

Stansbury won more SEC Championships in the last 10 years than any other SEC program except Kentucky 12. Mississippi State 8. (Florida 6) Western Conference Champion: 2003, 2004, 2007, 2008, 2010. SEC Tournament Champion: 2002, 2009. Overall SEC Champion: 2004. Under the leadership of Stansbury, MSU's teams were always a threat in the SEC Tournament, reaching the finals of the tournament four times, winning twice. His SEC Tournament record is 16-12. [6]

From his days as an MSU assistant until 2012, Stansbury has been a part of over 15 postseason tournament appearances. Prior to his arrival at Mississippi State, MSU had two post-seasons in 27 years (both NIT). He is also 21-8 vs conference in-state rival, the Ole Miss Rebels.

Everyone already knows all this. I certainly do, and it is the reason I was such a big Stans supporter. As long as the guy was winning like he was, people were crazy to overly criticize him for certain things.

However, the success stopped coming like it had been. Any time a coach has to point back 8+ years in their defense, you know things aren't going so well. Stans had a very good run, and I hope he is ultimately remembered fondly. The stretch from 02-04 was about as good as we've ever been, and he had some other good runs as well.

The thing is, everyone who supported the move to oust him knew all this and wanted to get back at least to where we were. They didn't believe it was going to happen again under Stans, and by the end I was persuaded to agree with them.

Past history is great, but it means nothing for tomorrow. We will always have the 2004 SEC championship, whether Stans is here or not. The question is, what move best ensures we give ourselves a chance at doing that again? Saying, 'we won a championship in 2004' is great, but that doesn't mean the coach who did it is automatically going to do it again at some point.

[engie]

We've also learned who doesn't think their shit stinks.

Who?

[tcdog70]

these are the Same Guys that think a 6-6 season is really great. Why can Mullen be judged different than Stans? Rick Stansbury accomplished so much more for a longer period of time than any Coach in MSU history. I agree with a lot that that Coach 34 and Engie post, but I can't wrap my mind around their hate for RS. They Love a can't beat a top 20 Mullen but hate Stans. go figure. Here is what I have learned during this rebuild--Rick Ray won't cut the mustard.

[Coach34]

these are the Same Guys that think a 6-6 season is really great. Why can Mullen be judged different than Stans? Rick Stansbury accomplished so much more for a longer period of time than any Coach in MSU history. I agree with a lot that that Coach 34 and Engie post, but I can't wrap my mind around their hate for RS. They Love a can't beat a top 20 Mullen but hate Stans. go figure. Here is what I have learned during this rebuild--Rick Ray won't cut the mustard.

SEC football = Big East basketball
SEC basketball = Conference USA football

In Mullen's 5 seasons- we have played 2 top 5 schedules and have one that is ranked very high the other seasons
Stands routinely had much, much easier schedules. His last 2 were 88th and 87th in the country according to statsheet.com

[NewTweederEndzoneDance]

these are the Same Guys that think a 6-6 season is really great. Why can Mullen be judged different than Stans? Rick Stansbury accomplished so much more for a longer period of time than any Coach in MSU history. I agree with a lot that that Coach 34 and Engie post, but I can't wrap my mind around their hate for RS. They Love a can't beat a top 20 Mullen but hate Stans. go figure. Here is what I have learned during this rebuild--Rick Ray won't cut the mustard.

1. football does not equal basketball, they are completely different animals
2. football in the SECW certainly does not equal basketball in the SECW (or SEC in general)
3. 15 years >>>>>>> 5 years
4. taking over from Williams a couple years removed from a Final Four >>>>>> taking over from Croom, who inherited a mess from the end of Jackie's regime.
5. Rick Ray not doing well does not mean Stansbury should have been kept - those things are not one and the same, they are separate
6. maybe C34 hates Stansbury, but most of us supported him over the years and appreciate very much the things he did for our program. However, by the time it was all said and done, we recognized that it was time to move in a new direction. One does not have to hate Stansbury to realize it was time for a new direction.

You are beating on a dead horse. Appreciate what Stansbury did for the program, but move on like the majority of us.

[JOHNHEVESYMADE]

Bottom line, Ray better recruit better and it doesn't help him that he is viewed as a "developmental coach" and only Chicken has gotten better. Fred, Gavin, and Colin up to this point have regressed. At some point he's going to need to sign a difference maker. It almost seems like it's Malik Newman or bust. Hope we pull it off but he better offer a nice "package" if he wants to get Malik.

[esplanade91]

Bottom line, Ray better recruit better and it doesn't help him that he is viewed as a "developmental coach" and only Chicken has gotten better. Fred, Gavin, and Colin up to this point have regressed. At some point he's going to need to sign a difference maker. It almost seems like it's Malik Newman or bust. Hope we pull it off but he better offer a nice "package" if he wants to get Malik.

Ray = Croom, and not just because they both are/were under-qualified and took over a program full of convicts and run of the mill shitheads. Had Croom gone to a school like NCSU or somewhere with calm waters he probably would have had a lot more success (but maybe not, and if so probably not much more), but he followed up a fan-favorite who overstayed his welcome and wasn't given an easy task. We hit rock bottom with Croom, and because we fired him and hired a guy from one of the best programs in the country people started loving our football team again and we now have a revamped stadium. JWS suddenly become a god in Starkville and "the end" is now not necessarily talked about when he comes up.

Ray is simply serving the purpose of removing RS from our rearview mirror and in the meantime keeping us from being the Vandy football of SEC basketball (Vandy football circa Croom era). When Ray is fired (because he will be fired) we're going to remove our LT-esk self-punishment of non-AAU-dom (i.e. hiring Croom) and hire a top assistant/mid-major coach from somewhere great and The Hump will be packed just like DWS was in 2009.

We're too fickle of a fanbase to go straight from JWS to Jimbo/Mullen/anyone-not-named-Croom or from Stans to Payne... because when Jimbo/Payne/Drew/Dooley or whoever sucks for 3-4 years we give up on him and no one gives a shit. See Cohen*.

Ray can't recruit so he will ultimately be fired, but I wish him the best. The only real thing I have to complain about is the lack of support he's getting from fans. Last year was my last as a student and I tried to attend as many games as possible and I was usually the only one there.

*Cohen might have sucked his first few years but was having success in recruiting... which was enough to have at least 50% of the fanbase on his side.

[smootness]

Yeah, because Kenny Payne is a big-time coach.

[TrueMaroon]

It is good to have an AD with "balls," but I liked having a competitive basketball team. We may have one again in the future. We may not. But we have an AD with "balls," so I suppose we have to be grateful.

Huh? Byrne had huuuuge balls.

Scott? Not so much. What has he done to show that? Scott is an idealist; how does that make him have balls?

[engie]

Huh? Byrne had huuuuge balls.

Scott? Not so much. What has he done to show that? Scott is an idealist; how does that make him have balls?

UH -- he got rid of our popular all-time winningest coach off a 21-win season and NIT appearance -- who happened to also be best friends with Scott's father-in-law. He then hired who he considered the correct man for the job against the wishes of the people that basically pay his salary and will have the ability to get rid of him altogether if they so choose if/when basketball hire doesn't work out -- essentially laying his nuts out on the table instead of taking the safe route.

Or does that not qualify as "balls" these days?

[engie]

Bottom line, Ray better recruit better and it doesn't help him that he is viewed as a "developmental coach" and only Chicken has gotten better. Fred, Gavin, and Colin up to this point have regressed. At some point he's going to need to sign a difference maker. It almost seems like it's Malik Newman or bust. Hope we pull it off but he better offer a nice "package" if he wants to get Malik.

I love how people argue for regression when they probably haven't even looked at the stats -- much less brought them to the discussion. Yeah -- you have no agenda**

Fact is -- you wouldn't like what stats tell you anyway -- where the only player you can ACTUALLY argue for regression is Fred Thomas -- who simply has a confidence issue and will get going sooner or later.

[NewTweederEndzoneDance]

Yeah, because Kenny Payne is a big-time coach.

Kenny Payne was such a huge can't miss coaching prospect that he is now the head coach at the prestigious.... oh wait, he's still the Ed Orgeron for Kentucky.

Joe Dooley was such a can't miss coaching prospect that he got fired 4 years into his previous head coaching gig and then spent nearly 15 YEARS as an assistant before getting another chance at the almighty FGCU (granted they will probably beat us). I cannot fathom how he could be such a great coach for all those years with Bill Self talking about how awesome he is, and NOT get any other job for so long...

**smootness - I know you were being sarcastic in your post, so I'm not addressing this towards you even though I quoted your post**

[TrueMaroon]

UH -- he got rid of our popular all-time winningest coach off a 21-win season and NIT appearance -- who happened to also be best friends with Scott's father-in-law. He then hired who he considered the correct man for the job against the wishes of the people that basically pay his salary and will have the ability to get rid of him altogether if they so choose if/when basketball hire doesn't work out -- essentially laying his nuts out on the table instead of taking the safe route.

Or does that not qualify as "balls" these days?

Balls? A blind squirrel knew that Stansburry was done. Stans was done when he lost to Georgia, and he was already on thin ice. Scott was way under prepared for the search and it showed up big time by letting almost a month pass before hiring a new coach. Stans and Bailey were friends, but they weren't best friends by any stretch. I dont see balls; I see incompetence.


What I saw was a first time Athletic Director who fell flat on his face and failed to sell the program thus whiffing on choice A, B, C, and then finally option R was willing to sign on.

Just because somebody isnt a fan of Rick Ray, it doesnt mean they were fan of Rick Stansburry. It was time for Stansburry to move on; however, we did a piss poor job handling his replacement.

[esplanade91]

Yeah, because Kenny Payne is a big-time coach.Just like Mullen was a "big time coach." Mullen was the #1 assistant from a winning, big time program. Kenny is the #1 assistant for arguably the biggest program (top 3 at least). Mullen wasn't on anyone else's radar, just like most teams probably wouldn't hire Kenny... but still a big time coach compared to a second-tier assistant from one of the worst ACC teams.

Kenny wouldn't have kicked those 4 players off the team and he'd just be a continuation of the culture. Add Ray in between and you fix everything.

I'm certainly not saying I wanted to hire Payne or want to hire him now... just conversing.

[drunkernhelldawg]

Huh? Byrne had huuuuge balls.

Scott? Not so much. What has he done to show that? Scott is an idealist; how does that make him have balls?

My post was sarcastic in answer to a post that lauded the AD's manhood.

[smootness]

Balls? A blind squirrel knew that Stansburry was done. Stans was done when he lost to Georgia, and he was already on thin ice. Scott was way under prepared for the search and it showed up big time by letting almost a month pass before hiring a new coach. Stans and Bailey were friends, but they weren't best friends by any stretch. I dont see balls; I see incompetence.

It's obvious there are still plenty of State fans who didn't want Stans to go, including some big-time boosters; regardless of what you think (and may agreed with you as well), it still took balls to fire him before the wheels completely came off from a record standpoint.

And yes, the Ray hire did take balls. You can think it was incompetent or terrible, that's fine; but it still took balls. He knew people would say, 'Who?' and that many would do exactly what they're doing, which is refusing to support the program until Ray overwhelms them with success; yet he still pulled the trigger. That takes balls.

What did Byrne do that proved he had balls? He fired Croom? Ok...no more difficult than firing Stans. He hired Cohen? What a ballsy hire (it was 100% the right hire, just saying that it was pretty easy). And getting the top assistant from Florida may have been a very good choice as well, but it was still fairly straightforward.

Some apparently want Stricklin to do things like shove cowbells in the SEC's face and tell them to screw themselves, but that is just stupid and counterproductive. For the life of me, I can't understand why so many are so up in arms over Stricklin. The guy is a good AD.

All I can figure is that our fanbase is just uncreative or dimwitted.

Ray? Croom 2.0
Stricklin? LT 2.0

Can we not at least come up with things besides, 'They're just like that last bad move we made at that position'?

[engie]

Balls? A blind squirrel knew that Stansburry was done. Stans was done when he lost to Georgia, and he was already on thin ice. Scott was way under prepared for the search and it showed up big time by letting almost a month pass before hiring a new coach. Stans and Bailey were friends, but they weren't best friends by any stretch. I dont see balls; I see incompetence.
I didn't realize that planning was a prerequisite to having a sack. In my experience, those two things RARELY work together. But I learn something new every day**


What I saw was a first time Athletic Director who fell flat on his face and failed to sell the program thus whiffing on choice A, B, C, and then finally option R was willing to sign on.
Which simply means that you weren't paying attention to how the search actually went down.


Just because somebody isnt a fan of Rick Ray, it doesnt mean they were fan of Rick Stansburry. It was time for Stansburry to move on; however, we did a piss poor job handling his replacement.
There is no possible way for you to know this yet. Time will tell if we did a good job or bad job.

Either way -- Stricklin laid his ass out on the line for Rick Ray. That takes balls. LT would have kept Stans -- and hired either Kirby or Cunningham.

[engie]

Just like Mullen was a "big time coach." Mullen was the #1 assistant from a winning, big time program. Kenny is the #1 assistant for arguably the biggest program (top 3 at least). Mullen wasn't on anyone else's radar, just like most teams probably wouldn't hire Kenny... but still a big time coach compared to a second-tier assistant from one of the worst ACC teams.

Kenny wouldn't have kicked those 4 players off the team and he'd just be a continuation of the culture. Add Ray in between and you fix everything.

I'm certainly not saying I wanted to hire Payne or want to hire him now... just conversing.

Kenny Payne is NOT the #1 assistant at Kentucky.

[smootness]

Kenny Payne is NOT the #1 assistant at Kentucky.

Thank you. Antigua is their top assistant. Payne is, at best, #2 and the comparison to Orgeron is a good one. He is a guy who is there for recruiting and little else.

[MarketingBully01]

I concur TrueMaroon. Good post.

[MarketingBully01]

Eh, hard to tell. At best it's 1a and 1b. Cal isn't knocking any doors down to promote Antigua for HC positions. Either way it's a wash. Both are good recruiters and I think would do great jobs as Head Coaches. Remember, Payne also did an awesome job at Oregon as an assistant as well.

His top assistant in Memphis was obviously Pastner.

[smootness]

Eh, hard to tell. At best it's 1a and 1b. Cal isn't knocking any doors down to promote Antigua for HC positions. Either way it's a wash. Both are good recruiters and I think would do great jobs as Head Coaches. Remember, Payne also did an awesome job at Oregon as an assistant as well.

His top assistant in Memphis was obviously Pastner.

And Pastner has been a huge success at Memphis.

Perhaps the reason he isn't promoting Antigua is because he relies on the guy and wants to keep him around? I don't see head coaches promoting assistants for head jobs as a good thing. Remember how upset Meyer seemed when Mullen left? Then Florida's offense tanked?

Payne is not 1a or 1b. He is clearly behind Antigua...everyone acknowledges Antigua is their top assistant.

What, specifically, did Payne do at Oregon?

[JOHNHEVESYMADE]

How many SEC games do we win this year? We've done well in the non conference the South Florida win was surprising the FGCU is not seeing they haven't done as well as many expected. So how does this season finish out?

[Coach34]

I think we win 7 SEC games this year...would that suffice?

[bully99]

What 7 are you looking at as wins.?

[Dawg61]

There's 18 SEC games meaning we play 5 teams twice and we lucked out this year with those 5 except UK (UK, aTm, UOM, UGA, Aub). If we can somehow sweep Auburn and Georgia and take 1 from Ole Miss and aTm we could get to 8 SEC wins but even with two unlikely sweeps it will still be a tough task. I only see a win vs USC and maybe 1 win out of @Vandy, @Bama and UT at home. I said 18 wins before we played UNLV but I was wooly drunk. I now say we go 6-12 in the SEC with wins over aTm, UOM, UGA, Aub, USC and I'll predict UT as the 6th win. 10-3 NonConf and 6-12 SEC for a 16-15 record before the SECT. At 6-12 we'll get a tough matchup and lose finishing 16-16 with no post-season appearance.

[RougeDawg]

these are the Same Guys that think a 6-6 season is really great. Why can Mullen be judged different than Stans? Rick Stansbury accomplished so much more for a longer period of time than any Coach in MSU history. I agree with a lot that that Coach 34 and Engie post, but I can't wrap my mind around their hate for RS. They Love a can't beat a top 20 Mullen but hate Stans. go figure. Here is what I have learned during this rebuild--Rick Ray won't cut the mustard.

Since you insist on comparing football and basketball schedules and their respective coaches, I'll provide an example of how a football coach would do what Stans did with our basketball teams.

Stans equivalent in SEC football would be similar to Saban or Miles having the talent they do, but struggling to win 6 or 7 games. That would be completely unacceptable to either fan base. Stans had the talent to make the tourney around 75% of his years and enough talent to make final four runs a few times.

[Dawg61]

No he didn't. The most frustrating thing about Stans was that he ran off/kicked off/couldn't develop/went straight to the NBA/transferred 99.9% of all the elite talent players. In 14 seasons Stansbury had one first round draft pick. One. And that was his last season. Arnett Moultrie. Monta, Outlaw, Bender etc. never played a minute of hoops for MSU. Stansbury being a great recruiter was and still is a complete myth. He was a ****ing AWFUL recruiter. He MISSED on almost every single player he signed the last 6 years or so. When the players you recruit end up being worse for your program you have officially made it to ****ing AWFUL recruiter status.

[bully99]

And how many of the players would have played at Kentucky the last few years without the one and done. Calipari is considered a great recruiter because he pimps out the one and done system. Most of those would have gone to the NBA and never played at Kentucky either. Two different eras.

[engie]

And how many of the players would have played at Kentucky the last few years without the one and done. Calipari is considered a great recruiter because he pimps out the one and done system. Most of those would have gone to the NBA and never played at Kentucky either. Two different eras.

Yeah -- because Kentucky struggled SO much to compete within the constraints of the old system**

[bully99]

It's you and others that are trying to compare State and Kentucky, Stains did some good things and some not so good. I put much of the blame on the Athletic Directors,all of them, Lar,Byrne, and Stricklin. They allowed the program to get totally out of hand. Never had Stains under control.

[JOHNHEVESYMADE]

Who do we beat to get to 7 wins?

[Coach34]

Who do we beat to get to 7 wins?

SEC teams

[smootness]

I think 7 wins is pushing it a little; would be great, possible, but I don't think it's necessarily likely. Here's how I would rate our SEC games in terms from most to least likely to win:

1. Georgia
2. Auburn
3. at Georgia
4. Texas A&M
5. at Auburn
6. South Carolina
7. at Texas A&M
8. Ole Miss
9. Arkansas
10. at Vandy
11. Tennessee
12. at Alabama
13. at Ole Miss
14. at LSU
15. at Missouri
16. Florida
17. Kentucky
18. at Kentucky

It's unlikely we sweep through the easiest 7, so we'll have to take a couple from the Ole Miss/Arkansas/at Vandy/Tennessee/at Alabama group. I don't see us winning any from 13 on.

To me, there are 3 distinct groups from that list. 1-7 are all definitely winnable for us. We're arguably as good or better than all those teams. The 8-12 group are games that are winnable but tough, unlikely to win more than one or two. And the 13-18 group, to me, are games that I would be shocked if we won.

[Coach34]

We will beat a Henderson-less OM team in the Hump...that one should be 2nd or 3rd on the list

[smootness]

We will beat a Henderson-less OM team in the Hump...that one should be 2nd or 3rd on the list

We'll see. I think we have a pretty good shot at winning that one; I think Ole Miss is better than teams like Vandy, Arkansas, and Alabama, even without Henderson (I don't think he's a positive for them a lot of times) but the fact that it's Ole Miss makes me think we'll give that game a little something extra.

That said, I don't see how that game would be easier than any game against Auburn or Georgia. Those teams are truly awful and are somehow clearly worse than we are.

[RougeDawg]

We will beat a Henderson-less OM team in the Hump...that one should be 2nd or 3rd on the list

What did I miss here?

[TheRef]

What did I miss here?

Henderson is suspended for the first two SEC games this season, so he's suspended for our game at the Hump.

[Coach34]

Texas A&M and Bammer are terrible also. A&M shoots it as bad as we do.

We have a chance to start 4-1 in the SEC with OM@home, @Bammer, A&M@ home, and then Auburn @home

[smootness]

I know Texas A&M is awful, but I'm not sure we're clearly better than them; I think we're probably about equal.

Winning at Alabama won't be easy. They're not good, but they're also not as bad as their record says. I would place them a little ahead of us as a team, and beating a better team on the road will be a very tough task for us.

[Dawg61]

Bama is better than their record. They've played a much tougher schedule than us. They were tied with UCLA with under a minute 2 days ago.

[MabenMaroon]

I am new on this site but not new to following MSU athletics and reading the different sites where the MSU faithful go to glean info about the programs and discuss amongst themselves. One thing I have observed from reading the replies to this thread is that an awful lot of criticism is directed towards the AD and the HC in basketball without direct observation of the program and the games being played, seems like a lot of folks are looking at stat sheets or seeing the first few minutes of a televised game and drawing a lot of conclusions as to whether Coach Ray is succeeding or not. Have been to many of the men's and women's games and both of the teams are immensely improved over last couple of years, with both the current coaches recruits and the ones that were inherited. Both teams are firmly headed in the right direction and are doing it the right way and being built to be successful for the long run. It will take some patience but more importantly, it is going to take support to make it happen. Both programs brought in some good SEC caliber recruits and good building blocks for the future, and if the next class of recruits measure up to the potential that they are touted to have, we will be in great shape and will have sustainable winning programs to be proud of sooner than later.
As far as "playing the current AAU game" goes, pay attention to what is going on in the NCAA and SEC off-season meetings where it it is and has been a hot topic of discussion and the seedy side of the whole AAU thing is fixing to come crashing down and will be assisted by the DOJ and the IRS when it does. I don't want MSU to be caught up in it when it does.