Football Depth Chart

[confucius say]

Being as though we are less than 4 weeks from preseason camp, any insight into what is expected?

QB - Shapen, LK, Taylor
RB - Booth, Bothwell, Daniels
TE - British
WR - ?
OL - ?

Defense?

[parabrave]

Being as though we are less than 4 weeks from preseason camp, any insight into what is expected?

QB - Shapen, LK, Taylor
RB - Booth, Bothwell, Daniels
TE - British
WR - ?
OL - ?

Defense?

Before the portal we could name the roster 2 deep. Now haven't a clue.

[The Federalist Engineer]

I'm not a football guy... is Luke Kromenhoek not that good? Shapen still the man?

Didn't Shapen QB the Toledo game?

[StarkVegasSteve]

I'm not a football guy... is Luke Kromenhoek not that good? Shapen still the man?

Didn't Shapen QB the Toledo game?

Kromenhoek is a more talented version of Fitzgerald. He can play and COULD be deadly in this system. Unfortunately for him, he may have the second coming of Cam Newton also in the QB room with him.

As for Shapen, yes he QB’d the Toledo game. Our first 3 drives in that game had 2 killer penalties and 2 sacks where Shapen had about a second to throw. On our fourth drive, we get a false start penalty at the 1 after Shapen had driven us down there and had to settle for a FG. Our 5th drive, after we are down 21-3, Shapen again gets sacked and it kills the drive. You can blame stuff on Shapen last year, but the Toledo game is not something he should catch blame for.

[Todd4State]

I'm not a football guy... is Luke Kromenhoek not that good? Shapen still the man?

Didn't Shapen QB the Toledo game?

Don't understand the blame that Shapen gets for Toledo at all. If he threw 3-5 interceptions and was below 50% completing his passes and maybe had a fumble or two in there then Ok.

Our defense gave up 41 points and our offensive line simply didn't show up.

[Todd4State]

Before the portal we could name the roster 2 deep. Now haven't a clue.

A lot of new faces. Shapen, Booth, Traore, and Albert Reese might be the only familiar ones on offense.

Defense I'm guessing Kai McClendon, Branden Jennings, Isaac Smith, Kelley Jones, and Stonka will be the most familiar faces.

[BuckyIsAB****]

Shapen is pretty good and we probably win the Egg with him at QB. I dont know anything about Hawk. But I can tell you this, Kamario Taylor is the best QB we have ever signed out of HS. At the state championship game you could hear the ball leave his hand and that was with 25k in the stands. He is the real deal. I think he needs to play. It would be huge for this fan base to have another player to really rally around that loves State.

[Todd4State]

Shapen is pretty good and we probably win the Egg with him at QB. I dont know anything about Hawk. But I can tell you this, Kamario Taylor is the best QB we have ever signed out of HS. At the state championship game you could hear the ball leave his hand and that was with 25k in the stands. He is the real deal. I think he needs to play. It would be huge for this fan base to have another player to really rally around that loves State.

He's going to be special. I want to see how he looks against some of the OOC teams before we play him more. I usually typically err on the side of redshirting with QB's because of the level of development that most need even if they are elite.

[cheewgumm]

I would play Kamario as quickly as I could.

If he?s what they say, sooner the better.

It will help everything - probably recruiting in MS to name the most obvious.

[Todd4State]

I'll take a really wild guess at the depth chart

QB- Blake Shapen with Kamario Taylor as the back up.
RB1- Davon Booth
RB2- Fluff Bothwell
RB3- Xavier Gayten
H-Back/FB- Max Reese
WR- Ayden Williams
WR- SanFrisco Magee
Slot- Brenen Thompson- he seemed to appear a lot on highlight videos from MSU.
Slot- Cam Thompson
Slot- Anthony Evans
WR- Markus Allen
WR- Ricky Johnson
TE- Sam West
H-Back/WR- Seydou Traore
Secret redzone weapon- Emeka Iloh
C- Brennan Smith
G- Trevor Mayberry
G- Blake Steen
LT- Albert Reese
RT- Jimothy Lewis


DE- Trevion Williams if he is healthy, maybe Jaray Bledsoe
DT- Will Whitson
DT- Kai McClendon
DE- Jamil Burroughs- I have a really good feeling about him

MLB- Branden Jennings
OLB- Jalen Smith or Zakari Tillman
EDGE- Raishen Thomas or Malik Sylla- probably in that order
STAR- Isaac Smith

CB- Kelley Jones
CB- Dwight Lewis
S- Jahron Manning
S- Tony Mitchell
S- Stonka

K- Kyle Ferrie
P- Ethan Pulliam
KO- Marlon Hauck
LS- Ethan Myers

KR/PR- Cam Thompson
KR/PR- Brenen Thompson

[Todd4State]

I would play Kamario as quickly as I could.

If he?s what they say, sooner the better.

It will help everything - probably recruiting in MS to name the most obvious.

I'm honestly surprised it didn't help last year. You can tell the guy is special. I do like that we have his brother committed and I like Jayden Cration and Zayvion Cotton as weapons for the future. We need some more weapons for the future like JJ Hill but we are off to a decent start there.

[StarkVegasSteve]

I would play Kamario as quickly as I could.

If he?s what they say, sooner the better.

It will help everything - probably recruiting in MS to name the most obvious.

The thing with Kamario is that it's in everyone's best interests if he's able to play in 4 this year, keep the RS, and then compete with Kromenhoek in the Spring. Because that means 1. Shapen stayed healthy and 2. Shapen probably got us to 5-7 wins. That would build A TON of juice with Kamario waiting in the wings AND people not seeing him and raising his price. Because if he plays, no matter how he does, his price would be raised astronomically just due to his physical abilities. It's a bit like Van Buren. Did his talent pop off the charts last year from his play? No. But he has a rocket launcher attached to his right shoulder and has some mobility. That alone is going to raise the price.

[confucius say]

A lot of new faces. Shapen, Booth, Traore, and Albert Reese might be the only familiar ones on offense.

Defense I'm guessing Kai McClendon, Branden Jennings, Isaac Smith, Kelley Jones, and Stonka will be the most familiar faces.

And KBJ and Trevion

[StarkVegasSteve]

And KBJ and Trevion

Actually heard some encouraging things on Trevion. KBJ may have trouble seeing much of the field this year. There's going to be a ton of new faces over there. The only starters to return will probably be Issac and Kelley.

[StarkVegasSteve]

I'll take a really wild guess at the depth chart

QB- Blake Shapen with Kamario Taylor as the back up.
RB1- Davon Booth
RB2- Fluff Bothwell
RB3- Xavier Gayten
H-Back/FB- Max Reese
WR- Ayden Williams
WR- SanFrisco Magee
Slot- Brenen Thompson- he seemed to appear a lot on highlight videos from MSU.
Slot- Cam Thompson
Slot- Anthony Evans
WR- Markus Allen
WR- Ricky Johnson
TE- Sam West
H-Back/WR- Seydou Traore
Secret redzone weapon- Emeka Iloh
C- Brennan Smith
G- Trevor Mayberry
G- Blake Steen
LT- Albert Reese
RT- Jimothy Lewis


DE- Trevion Williams if he is healthy, maybe Jaray Bledsoe
DT- Will Whitson
DT- Kai McClendon
DE- Jamil Burroughs- I have a really good feeling about him

MLB- Branden Jennings
OLB- Jalen Smith or Zakari Tillman
EDGE- Raishen Thomas or Malik Sylla- probably in that order
STAR- Isaac Smith

CB- Kelley Jones
CB- Dwight Lewis
S- Jahron Manning
S- Tony Mitchell
S- Stonka

K- Kyle Ferrie
P- Ethan Pulliam
KO- Marlon Hauck
LS- Ethan Myers

KR/PR- Cam Thompson
KR/PR- Brenen Thompson

Agree on some of it. Burroughs is a DT all day though. He's 6'3 330. That's not DE. I also think some are forgetting about the NC State transfer Red Hibbler. A lot of good things around him and I think he'll factor in at a DE spot. He's got really good bend off the edge and I know Dancey is high on him. On corner, don't sleep on Hunter Washington. Staff has been really high on him and I know MacIntyre is really high on him and he's going to be helping out a lot with that back end.

[99jc]

It's not the players I worry about its the defensive coach. If we start giving up 30 plus points a game Lebby better can him fast or it will cost him his job. Everyone got a pass last season due to the cluster we had but they had better make big strides this season or I'm done.

[StarkVegasSteve]

It's not the players I worry about its the defensive coach. If we start giving up 30 plus points a game Lebby better can him fast or it will cost him his job. Everyone got a pass last season due to the cluster we had but they had better make big strides this season or I'm done.

Well having an actual defense is going to help out a lot in that regard.

[R2Dawg]

Actually heard some encouraging things on Trevion. KBJ may have trouble seeing much of the field this year. There's going to be a ton of new faces over there. The only starters to return will probably be Issac and Kelley.

If Trevion moves outside more, I'm excited to see what happens. There are times when he looks like the next Fletcher Cox but he just hasn't put it together yet. Maybe this is the year?

We just need to get some momentum. Taylor, Hill, coming in with some current guys stepping up and either becoming who we thought they could be or a few more surprising us. When this happens in our history, MSU shows up. Guess my long MSU history just can't see a long dry spell. Too much talent in Miss. We need to get the LOS fixed on both sides and we can be in business.

[parabrave]

If Trevion moves outside more, I'm excited to see what happens. There are times when he looks like the next Fletcher Cox but he just hasn't put it together yet. Maybe this is the year?

We just need to get some momentum. Taylor, Hill, coming in with some current guys stepping up and either becoming who we thought they could be or a few more surprising us. When this happens in our history, MSU shows up. Guess my long MSU history just can't see a long dry spell. Too much talent in Miss. We need to get the LOS fixed on both sides and we can be in business.

How about getting back to the basics with the DL. Insure that they know how to blow off the ball and get penetration and at least plug the dam holes. Last year they were getting blown off the LOS and getting pushed back 5 yards. I don't know if anyone else noticed last year but the RTGDFB is making a comeback.

[Hot Rock]

QB's don't play defense.

[msudawg1200]

I'll take a really wild guess at the depth chart

QB- Blake Shapen with Kamario Taylor as the back up.
RB1- Davon Booth
RB2- Fluff Bothwell
RB3- Xavier Gayten
H-Back/FB- Max Reese
WR- Ayden Williams
WR- SanFrisco Magee
Slot- Brenen Thompson- he seemed to appear a lot on highlight videos from MSU.
Slot- Cam Thompson
Slot- Anthony Evans
WR- Markus Allen
WR- Ricky Johnson
TE- Sam West
H-Back/WR- Seydou Traore
Secret redzone weapon- Emeka Iloh
C- Brennan Smith
G- Trevor Mayberry
G- Blake Steen
LT- Albert Reese
RT- Jimothy Lewis


DE- Trevion Williams if he is healthy, maybe Jaray Bledsoe
DT- Will Whitson
DT- Kai McClendon
DE- Jamil Burroughs- I have a really good feeling about him

MLB- Branden Jennings
OLB- Jalen Smith or Zakari Tillman
EDGE- Raishen Thomas or Malik Sylla- probably in that order
STAR- Isaac Smith

CB- Kelley Jones
CB- Dwight Lewis
S- Jahron Manning
S- Tony Mitchell
S- Stonka

K- Kyle Ferrie
P- Ethan Pulliam
KO- Marlon Hauck
LS- Ethan Myers

KR/PR- Cam Thompson
KR/PR- Brenen Thompson

You don't think Nic Mitchell starts at MLB? What about Hunter Washington at one of the safeties? No Johnnie Daniels at a RB? You think Gullette from Texas and Sanders from NIU will get many reps at backer?

[NWADAWG]

Being as though we are less than 4 weeks from preseason camp, any insight into what is expected?

QB - Shapen, LK, Taylor
RB - Booth, Bothwell, Daniels
TE - British
WR - ?
OL - ?

Defense?

These discussions always interest me. Not necessarily that I expect inside knowledge from those with great insight and connections, but the contrast in the descriptions. The we won't suck quite as bad as last year but it will be close - and the we actually have great players at that position that will be buried in the depth chart, at multiple positions. I understand that both can be true to some degree but a bunch of cup half fulls and cup half emptys talking about how the water will taste.

For the record, I think we will be noticeably better with somewhat reasonable chance at 5 wins and an all the planets align shot at 6. This is not an inside scoop, just my thoughts.

[StarkVegasSteve]

These discussions always interest me. Not necessarily that I expect inside knowledge from those with great insight and connections, but the contrast in the descriptions. The we won't suck quite as bad as last year but it will be close - and the we actually have great players at that position that will be buried in the depth chart, at multiple positions. I understand that both can be true to some degree but a bunch of cup half fulls and cup half emptys talking about how the water will taste.

For the record, I think we will be noticeably better with somewhat reasonable chance at 5 wins and an all the planets align shot at 6. This is not an inside scoop, just my thoughts.

I think we will be markedly better on both sides of the ball, but I'm just not wholly confident that the record will show it. I mean we could be a WHOLE LOT better and still go 5-7.

[Hot Rock]

I think we will be markedly better on both sides of the ball, but I'm just not wholly confident that the record will show it. I mean we could be a WHOLE LOT better and still go 5-7.

5-7 is a wildly better win/loss record from last year. With this schedule, that will show a lot especially if that defense gets back to what Mississippi State should be putting on the field.

[R2Dawg]

How about getting back to the basics with the DL. Insure that they know how to blow off the ball and get penetration and at least plug the dam holes. Last year they were getting blown off the LOS and getting pushed back 5 yards. I don't know if anyone else noticed last year but the RTGDFB is making a comeback.

Yeah football ain't rocket science that everyone makes it out to be. The team that wins LOS, wins the game. We lost our identity as a program since 2018.

[Coach34]

Yeah football ain't rocket science that everyone makes it out to be. The team that wins LOS, wins the game. We lost our identity as a program since 2018.

This all day. We've stopped winning in the trenches and until we get that back- it will remain a struggle.

[No BS Dawg]

Defense was a joke last year and the same coaches are back. Having more talent can help, but is not the end all be all. We made no adjustments in game and seemed lost most of the season. Unless there is marked improvement from a defensive coaching and scheme standpoint, there will be little significant improvement in the defense. With our schedule a minimal improvement in defense will equate to
8-10 losses.

[msugolf]

Defense was a joke last year and the same coaches are back. Having more talent can help, but is not the end all be all. We made no adjustments in game and seemed lost most of the season. Unless there is marked improvement from a defensive coaching and scheme standpoint, there will be little significant improvement in the defense. With our schedule a minimal improvement in defense will equate to
8-10 losses.

There is no scheme in the world that works with bad talent. The ball always finds you

[No BS Dawg]

There is no scheme in the world that works with bad talent. The ball always finds you

Fully agree, but even a decent defensive coaching staff can use scheme to mask some deficiencies and make them less prominent. Our staff did not even do that. We did not even adjust alignment half the time based on offensive shifts and what their strong side was.

[Pancho]

thats what the 2 analysts are for

[Goldendawg]

There is no scheme in the world that works with bad talent. The ball always finds you

I still say no staff, even at State, should go 2-10 and 0-8 and I've seen it all in person since 1963. We are the "Washington Generals" of the SEC at this time. Nothing but winning our share and being competent and competitive in losses will change this!

[Coach34]

thats what the 2 analysts are for

Exactly- these guys were brought in to help game plan and scout. We will be there from a coaching standpoint on D for sure.

Talent still remains a question

[No BS Dawg]

Exactly- these guys were brought in to help game plan and scout. We will be there from a coaching standpoint on D for sure.

Talent still remains a question

We shall see, hoping you are correct on the coaching side of it.

[TrapGame]

We will actually have a run game this season. Not being able to run the ball last season cost us a lot. We will have a much better run game that will open up shots downfield for Shapen.

Half the guys on defense last year wouldn't make the 2 deep at Millsaps. And that being said, the defense actually improved some as the season went on. With the upgrade in talent I expect us to have at least an average SEC defense which means we get enough stops to give the offense ample opportunities to score.

[StarkVegasSteve]

We will actually have a run game this season. Not being able to run the ball last season cost us a lot. We will have a much better run game that will open up shots downfield for Shapen.

Half the guys on defense last year wouldn't make the 2 deep at Millsaps. And that being said, the defense actually improved some as the season went on. With the upgrade in talent I expect us to have at least an average SEC defense which means we get enough stops to give the offense ample opportunities to score.

Half? I'd be willing to say that 85% of our D last year, and a couple of starters, couldn't have started, or seen the field, at any other SEC school and very few P4 schools.

[TrapGame]

Half? I'd be willing to say that 85% of our D last year, and a couple of starters, couldn't have started, or seen the field, at any other SEC school and very few P4 schools.

I was being generous for sure. Most of them wouldn't qualify to be hydration engineers on the sideline.

[BuckyIsAB****]

I still say no staff, even at State, should go 2-10 and 0-8 and I've seen it all in person since 1963. We are the "Washington Generals" of the SEC at this time. Nothing but winning our share and being competent and competitive in losses will change this!

No excuse for it. We halfway competed against a few teams with a lot more bullets than us, the kids played hard in all but 2 games. Those were the only positives in Lebby and Staffs first year. He has got a lot to prove. It is make a bowl or beat ole miss. Neither happens its time to move on

[Coach34]

We have no chance at 6 wins this season. 5 would be a pleasant surprise

Our roster is Bottom 4 in the SEC. It is what it is

[Coach34]

It is make a bowl or beat ole miss. Neither happens its time to move on

He is going to get 3 years at least. Our Admin knows and understands where our funding is in football relative to other programs.

[vv83]

No excuse for it. We halfway competed against a few teams with a lot more bullets than us, the kids played hard in all but 2 games. Those were the only positives in Lebby and Staffs first year. He has got a lot to prove. It is make a bowl or beat ole miss. Neither happens its time to move on

If we go 5-7 with 4 non conf wins and one SEC win there is no chance we move on from him. Ole Miss doesnt matter. Need to look at this as 09 Dan year with how awful a position Keenum and Arnett left our program. If the guys play hard, you improve from prior year, and you can see an identity forming it is a solid year.

[Cooterpoot]

I still say no staff, even at State, should go 2-10 and 0-8 and I've seen it all in person since 1963. We are the "Washington Generals" of the SEC at this time. Nothing but winning our share and being competent and competitive in losses will change this!

Well, you're an idiot. This ain't 1963 and we couldn't even put together a damn scout team last year. We win 5+ this year.

[TrapGame]

If we go 5-7 with 4 non conf wins and one SEC win there is no chance we move on from him. Ole Miss doesnt matter. Need to look at this as 09 Dan year with how awful a position Keenum and Arnett left our program. If the guys play hard, you improve from prior year, and you can see an identity forming it is a solid year.

People fail to realize what a dumpster fire this program has become since Mullen left. Cohen lit the fire with Moorhead. Leach was not the answer and his death made it worse. Arnett was lighter fluid sprayed on a smoldering heap. Lebby has his work cut out for him. This is tall task for a new head coach. If he pulls it off and makes us relevant again in football it's going to be hard to keep him. He's going to have a lot of suitors.

[Todd4State]

People fail to realize what a dumpster fire this program has become since Mullen left. Cohen lit the fire with Moorhead. Leach was not the answer and his death made it worse. Arnett was lighter fluid sprayed on a smoldering heap. Lebby has his work cut out for him. This is tall task for a new head coach. If he pulls it off and makes us relevant again in football it's going to be hard to keep him. He's going to have a lot of suitors.

Leach left us at 9-4. If that's not the answer then we're Alabama.

[Todd4State]

Furthermore- our situation now is way more on Arnett than anything else. We didn't fall off of a cliff with Moorhead- he managed to win 8 games and Leach almost won as many top 25 games as Dan did.

Things went down when the boosters insisted on going back to blue collar football again. You know- the same thing that hasn't worked for 100 years at MSU.

[confucius say]

Leach left us at 9-4. If that's not the answer then we're Alabama.

While true, he left us with the worse roster in the conference going into 2024. 2023 would have been fine if he were alive.
His recruiting classes were almost entirely misses. Arnett compounded the issue.

[CovertDawg]

I asked Grok how it would divide up MSU NIL/Rev Share money by position group to build a "moneyball roster" for Mississippi State. Nothing too surprising with what it spit out....

Money Ball Strategy
The "money ball" approach involves allocating more funds to positions that are undervalued relative to their impact. Offensive and defensive linemen are critical for controlling the line of scrimmage, yet their NIL valuations are lower than those of quarterbacks or wide receivers. By prioritizing linemen, Mississippi State can build a strong foundation, allowing less expensive skill players to perform effectively. This strategy leverages the depth required at these positions (10-15 players each) and their relative affordability compared to elite skill players.

Quarterbacks
8%
Sufficient to attract a competent quarterback, acknowledging scarcity but avoiding overinvestment in a single player.


Running Backs
5%
Reduced due to lower importance in modern offenses and ability to develop talent in-house.


Wide Receivers
12%
Balances scarcity and need for multiple starters, slightly reduced to prioritize lines.


Tight Ends
4%
Versatile but less critical, requiring a modest share.


Offensive Line
20%
Increased to build a strong foundation, critical for both run and pass games.


Defensive Line
22%
Highest allocation to ensure a dominant defense, exploiting undervaluation.


Linebackers
8%
Reduced slightly, as modern schemes rely more on linemen and secondary.


Defensive Backs
20%
High allocation to secure top cornerbacks, critical for pass defense.


Special Teams
1%
Minimal share due to lower impact and fewer players.

[Coach34]

While true, he left us with the worse roster in the conference going into 2024. 2023 would have been fine if he were alive.
His recruiting classes were almost entirely misses. Arnett compounded the issue.

correct. Leach wasnt recruiting at all

[R2Dawg]

Leach left us at 9-4. If that's not the answer then we're Alabama.

Well Leach left at 8-4 first. That was not his average either. Didn't he still finish with a losing overall record here? We were not about to go on this massive winning streak everyone thinks. Croom looked good in 07 too hugh? He won 8 games same as Leach. Saw how that ended. You can hold to that argument since he passed but fact is our D was on the skids since Leach came in and was about to come apart - and it did. We had got soft on OL too. Leach wasn't the answer. When are folks going to let him RIP.

Yes we are in trouble now; Arnet didn't dismantle MSU by himself in less than a year.

[R2Dawg]

Furthermore- our situation now is way more on Arnett than anything else. We didn't fall off of a cliff with Moorhead- he managed to win 8 games and Leach almost won as many top 25 games as Dan did.

Things went down when the boosters insisted on going back to blue collar football again. You know- the same thing that hasn't worked for 100 years at MSU.

Arnett didn't kill us in 10 months; that was already going on. Arnett inherited a mess and it got worse.

Moorhead had #1 D in nation and 3 #1 draftpicks and lost 5 games. No other team with #1 D in nation hasn't made playoffs but us. Also he had SEC all time leading QB rusher. Think about that a minute.

Leach's top 25 wins were a mirage. Almost all of those ranked teams at the time tanked before year end - see LSU game 1.

[R2Dawg]

I asked Grok how it would divide up MSU NIL/Rev Share money by position group to build a "moneyball roster" for Mississippi State. Nothing too surprising with what it spit out....

Money Ball Strategy
The "money ball" approach involves allocating more funds to positions that are undervalued relative to their impact. Offensive and defensive linemen are critical for controlling the line of scrimmage, yet their NIL valuations are lower than those of quarterbacks or wide receivers. By prioritizing linemen, Mississippi State can build a strong foundation, allowing less expensive skill players to perform effectively. This strategy leverages the depth required at these positions (10-15 players each) and their relative affordability compared to elite skill players.

Quarterbacks
8%
Sufficient to attract a competent quarterback, acknowledging scarcity but avoiding overinvestment in a single player.


Running Backs
5%
Reduced due to lower importance in modern offenses and ability to develop talent in-house.


Wide Receivers
12%
Balances scarcity and need for multiple starters, slightly reduced to prioritize lines.


Tight Ends
4%
Versatile but less critical, requiring a modest share.


Offensive Line
20%
Increased to build a strong foundation, critical for both run and pass games.


Defensive Line
22%
Highest allocation to ensure a dominant defense, exploiting undervaluation.


Linebackers
8%
Reduced slightly, as modern schemes rely more on linemen and secondary.


Defensive Backs
20%
High allocation to secure top cornerbacks, critical for pass defense.


Special Teams
1%
Minimal share due to lower impact and fewer players.

Can't argue with that. LOS is where it is. We have decent skill players to choose from behind good LOS. DBs being that high is interesting.

[TrapGame]

Leach left us at 9-4. If that's not the answer then we're Alabama.


Furthermore- our situation now is way more on Arnett than anything else. We didn't fall off of a cliff with Moorhead- he managed to win 8 games and Leach almost won as many top 25 games as Dan did.

Things went down when the boosters insisted on going back to blue collar football again. You know- the same thing that hasn't worked for 100 years at MSU.

Tood, there are multiple situations leading to where we are now. We gave Lebby shit on platter and told him we wanted steak in year one. Leach won some games but recruiting went into the shitter with him, especially on defense.

[bigbub50]

The problem with hiring leach as a coach was the roster overhaul with half the team being wr’s. Once you leave the leach offense, it’s tough to flip to a traditional roster. Arnette tried to flip our philosophy too fast and we didn’t have the $ thanks to cohen to buy the players we needed to compliment the flip. Also, with Moorhead to leach, we lost our dominance of in state front 7 defensive recruiting. Combine all that and we have the results of last year.

[confucius say]

I don't put 2020 on leach.
I don't put 2024 on lebby.

[BuckyIsAB****]

If we go 5-7 with 4 non conf wins and one SEC win there is no chance we move on from him. Ole Miss doesnt matter. Need to look at this as 09 Dan year with how awful a position Keenum and Arnett left our program. If the guys play hard, you improve from prior year, and you can see an identity forming it is a solid year.

Ole miss matters a lot. Im not one that pretends that they don?t. You can call it rent free or little brother if you want to, but that is the biggest game every single year and it is time to win it again. They have done well, caught a lucky break here and there and we have wrecked since we had an unprecedented tragedy. We are due

[BuckyIsAB****]

People fail to realize what a dumpster fire this program has become since Mullen left. Cohen lit the fire with Moorhead. Leach was not the answer and his death made it worse. Arnett was lighter fluid sprayed on a smoldering heap. Lebby has his work cut out for him. This is tall task for a new head coach. If he pulls it off and makes us relevant again in football it's going to be hard to keep him. He's going to have a lot of suitors.

So a bowl game every year and a 9 win season is dumpster fire? I know yall hated him and the QB but that is non sense. Moorhead was awful, Leach brought it back and was gonna be a consistent winner till God said otherwise. Keenum and Arnett then made Moorhead look like the Bear

[BuckyIsAB****]

The problem with hiring leach as a coach was the roster overhaul with half the team being wr?s. Once you leave the leach offense, it?s tough to flip to a traditional roster. Arnette tried to flip our philosophy too fast and we didn?t have the $ thanks to cohen to buy the players we needed to compliment the flip. Also, with Moorhead to leach, we lost our dominance of in state front 7 defensive recruiting. Combine all that and we have the results of last year.

There were some valid problems with Leach. Him leaving a lot of the recruiting to Arnett and Dudek on defense wasnt a good move. However the culture and Leach himself was good enough to offset it a little bit. We would have been right where Mullen had us consistently if he were still with us. Every coach in the country has flaws. People are forgetting how bad we wanted Mullen gone at times. 2011 and 2017 were huge underachieving years. 2017 we flopped after the bama screw job and he was one foot out the door again. 2016 would be remembered as a catastrophe if it wasnt for 55-20 and running freeze off. I remember Damian Williams playing over fitz and losing to USA in shorty shorts

[TrapGame]

So a bowl game every year and a 9 win season is dumpster fire? I know yall hated him and the QB but that is non sense. Moorhead was awful, Leach brought it back and was gonna be a consistent winner till God said otherwise. Keenum and Arnett then made Moorhead look like the Bear

We are in this predicament b/c of every single coach post Mullen. Every single one of them has contributed to the pile of shit Lebby was given. Leach wasn't the answer.

[Quaoarsking]

If Leach were still alive, we would have won at least 15 games across 2023-24 (maybe more) and would be licking our lips at our schedule this year.

Any cursory look at his career record tells us what he would have done here long term.

[Quaoarsking]

The only reason some people don't like Leach is that they've gotten it in their heads that you're "supposed" to win football games by physically dominating other teams, running between the tackles and imposing your will on them. Those fans hate the idea of turning football into a cerebral game of outwitting and outscheming the opponent. It's not "manly" enough for them.

Ironically, the team was in much better physical shape under Leach than the coaches before or after him.

[confucius say]

Very few of us don't like leach.
I have little doubt he would have kept us at least solid offensively.
The question would have been whether he could have gotten enough defensive guys out of the portal, because his recruiting, particularly on the defensive side, was D2 quality.

[Goldendawg]

Well, you're an idiot. This ain't 1963 and we couldn't even put together a damn scout team last year. We win 5+ this year.

Well, I'm not an idiot and I was there in 1963, (We ended up 6-2-2), when a ranked OM team had to come from behind and chose to kick a tying FB rather than maybe lose to us. I am not an "expert" as some on this board may be or have been successful coaches, have better insight/connections or played at a higher level than me in many sports, but how many of our coaches since 1963 (or comparable with a 10 or 11 game regular schedule), have gone 2-10 and 0-8 under many different conditions? I am with you on the 5-7 and if things fall right, maybe a 6-6, (4-0 OOC and 2-6 SEC should be obtainable most years even for us with our history), or with a miracle 7-5 and the program is back on track(5-7 or better looking good and competent in all areas of the game). . Another 2-2 OOC and 0-8 and we have real issues in this NIL/Portal mess. I'll be there for every home game, win or lose for the 58th consecutive year with by family group and friends. Hoping for the best with wins and competitive, fun team to watch even in losses. Hail State, Class of '77, Late SuperDog Dad attended driving 4 hrs roundtrip days with a night shift job until I and my Sister came along and my son is Class of 2023. We are all true, hardcore State fans on this board. Don't know why some resort to name calling behind a keyboard when we have sometimes have different outlooks for our athletic program in various sports.


Looked it up not counting years with ties and Tyler's years with forfeits: Looks like we have now had 6 years with no wins in conference play since 1963.

Again not counting Tyler Forfeits: Looks like we now have 7 seasons with 2 or less wins since 1963.

Not easy being a State fan at times, but Hail State, as I wouldn't have been raised any other way , as I also raised my son!

[Todd4State]

While true, he left us with the worse roster in the conference going into 2024. 2023 would have been fine if he were alive.
His recruiting classes were almost entirely misses. Arnett compounded the issue.

Hard to say what our roster would have looked like in 2024 in the portal era. Coming off of back to back 8-9 win seasons likely- we probably would have been able to attract talent better especially considering how much our NIL has developed that past few years.


Well Leach left at 8-4 first. That was not his average either. Didn't he still finish with a losing overall record here? We were not about to go on this massive winning streak everyone thinks. Croom looked good in 07 too hugh? He won 8 games same as Leach. Saw how that ended. You can hold to that argument since he passed but fact is our D was on the skids since Leach came in and was about to come apart - and it did. We had got soft on OL too. Leach wasn't the answer. When are folks going to let him RIP.

Yes we are in trouble now; Arnet didn't dismantle MSU by himself in less than a year.

No Leach did not finish with a losing record here. And before someone grandstands with "SEC wins are the only ones that count!!!!" Dan Mullen had a losing record in SEC games. What Leach did here was very comparable to Dan in a short time span W/L record wise. Dan had a few seasons comparable or worse than 2021- 2011, 2013, and 2016. Dan also only had two seasons that were as good or better as 2022- 2010 and 2014. Croom only won 4 games the next season after 2007 so that's not very comparable and I don't think you want to compare Leach and Croom's W/L record here. And who was in charge of defensive recruiting? Yep. The guy that ran off Leach's recruits and is now on job four in three years. Leach has fired DC's before so I don't think that would have been an issue.


Tood, there are multiple situations leading to where we are now. We gave Lebby shit on platter and told him we wanted steak in year one. Leach won some games but recruiting went into the shitter with him, especially on defense.

More fans blaming Leach for Arnett's lack of ability to recruit. Too bad we didn't have David Turner recruiting...oh wait. Speaking of recruiting one of the QB's that Arnett ran off is now a Heisman contender at Baylor. That's who would have been running our offense this year.


So a bowl game every year and a 9 win season is dumpster fire? I know yall hated him and the QB but that is non sense. Moorhead was awful, Leach brought it back and was gonna be a consistent winner till God said otherwise. Keenum and Arnett then made Moorhead look like the Bear

Yep.


There were some valid problems with Leach. Him leaving a lot of the recruiting to Arnett and Dudek on defense wasnt a good move. However the culture and Leach himself was good enough to offset it a little bit. We would have been right where Mullen had us consistently if he were still with us. Every coach in the country has flaws. People are forgetting how bad we wanted Mullen gone at times. 2011 and 2017 were huge underachieving years. 2017 we flopped after the bama screw job and he was one foot out the door again. 2016 would be remembered as a catastrophe if it wasnt for 55-20 and running freeze off. I remember Damian Williams playing over fitz and losing to USA in shorty shorts

It's funny how MSU fans give Dan a complete pass for doing the same things other coaches did here.


If Leach were still alive, we would have won at least 15 games across 2023-24 (maybe more) and would be licking our lips at our schedule this year.

Any cursory look at his career record tells us what he would have done here long term.

And this...


The only reason some people don't like Leach is that they've gotten it in their heads that you're "supposed" to win football games by physically dominating other teams, running between the tackles and imposing your will on them. Those fans hate the idea of turning football into a cerebral game of outwitting and outscheming the opponent. It's not "manly" enough for them.

Ironically, the team was in much better physical shape under Leach than the coaches before or after him.

And also this... Fortunately Lebby runs the QB enough to make them happy. And fortunately for us that understand modern football we throw it enough to win games.


Very few of us don't like leach.
I have little doubt he would have kept us at least solid offensively.
The question would have been whether he could have gotten enough defensive guys out of the portal, because his recruiting, particularly on the defensive side, was D2 quality.

I think if it came down to it he would have fired Arnett. And I think we would have done well enough to attract defensive talent in the portal. At least as good as what we did this offseason which I think will be adequate to below average at worst.

[R2Dawg]

Hard to say what our roster would have looked like in 2024 in the portal era. Coming off of back to back 8-9 win seasons likely- we probably would have been able to attract talent better especially considering how much our NIL has developed that past few years.



No Leach did not finish with a losing record here. And before someone grandstands with "SEC wins are the only ones that count!!!!" Dan Mullen had a losing record in SEC games. What Leach did here was very comparable to Dan in a short time span W/L record wise. Dan had a few seasons comparable or worse than 2021- 2011, 2013, and 2016. Dan also only had two seasons that were as good or better as 2022- 2010 and 2014. Croom only won 4 games the next season after 2007 so that's not very comparable and I don't think you want to compare Leach and Croom's W/L record here. And who was in charge of defensive recruiting? Yep. The guy that ran off Leach's recruits and is now on job four in three years. Leach has fired DC's before so I don't think that would have been an issue.

Yep Leach was 2 games above 500 which is no where near Mullen so trying to compare Leach to Mullen is apples and oranges. Mullen was around 23-24 games over 500. Dan played way better SEC teams than Leach did. Again the one good year Leach had, we beat like 1-2 teams with a winning record and they were like barely 7-6. OM was best win at what 8-4 or something. I ain't never said SEC wins are all that matter. Croom was terrible, I've never said he wasn't, but he had one good year just like Leach. If our schedule had been like last year in 22, we'd had a losing record that year too.

[R2Dawg]

If Leach were still alive, we would have won at least 15 games across 2023-24 (maybe more) and would be licking our lips at our schedule this year.

Any cursory look at his career record tells us what he would have done here long term.

We can play this game all day. If Mullen had stayed we would have won a NC in 18. That statement is just made up but more possible that the Leach winning 15 in 23-24. Like our crappy D and Will were going to win that many? We'd had a losing season in one or both those years with a harder schedule. Leach had a cakewalk schedule the one good year.

[R2Dawg]

The only reason some people don't like Leach is that they've gotten it in their heads that you're "supposed" to win football games by physically dominating other teams, running between the tackles and imposing your will on them. Those fans hate the idea of turning football into a cerebral game of outwitting and outscheming the opponent. It's not "manly" enough for them.

Ironically, the team was in much better physical shape under Leach than the coaches before or after him.

Not true. If you think football ain't won on LOS then pick your chess team and I'll pick my dandy dozen and we'll see how that goes. You assume running the football is for dummies and passing is for smart people. Moorhead tried that out think you crap and it did't work too good. He just had some studs on both sides of the ball that made him look smarter than he was.

Leach did bring some discipline back we lost with Moorhead but we started losing a ton of talent especially on LOS. Dan played smart but he knows you have to have the dudes to win and he got them.

[R2Dawg]

Very few of us don't like leach.
I have little doubt he would have kept us at least solid offensively.
The question would have been whether he could have gotten enough defensive guys out of the portal, because his recruiting, particularly on the defensive side, was D2 quality.

True, liked many things bout Leach but some not. Recruiting and the D was really going backwards. Portal and NIL would have really done him in too the last few years even though not as bad as changing coaches did.

[1bigdawg]

The amazing thing to me about the Mullen years was the ability to recruit top defensive talent with the turnstile of defensive coordinators.

[viverlibre]

I'm not a football guy... is Luke Kromenhoek not that good? Shapen still the man?

Didn't Shapen QB the Toledo game?

You?re 💯% correct. Against such an inferior opponent, at home, a QB has to put the team on his back and ball out (at least put 3 TDs on the board). Shapen certainly has pics on Levee and many of the posters on this board. No matter, he won?t make it through the first conference game then all those first teams will be wasted as we have to get another QB ready.

[vv83]

Ole miss matters a lot. Im not one that pretends that they don?t. You can call it rent free or little brother if you want to, but that is the biggest game every single year and it is time to win it again. They have done well, caught a lucky break here and there and we have wrecked since we had an unprecedented tragedy. We are due

I agree with this post, but that wasn't what you said originally. If Lebby goes 5-7 with a loss to Ole Miss, there is no way he is getting fired this year (barring some scandal)

[vv83]

You?re ��% correct. Against such an inferior opponent, at home, a QB has to put the team on his back and ball out (at least put 3 TDs on the board). Shapen certainly has pics on Levee and many of the posters on this board. No matter, he won?t make it through the first conference game then all those first teams will be wasted as we have to get another QB ready.

The best QB is going to play. If we start KT and go 2-10 because you think a guy who was at Noxubee high 3 months ago is our best option, I'm sure you'll have the patience at the end of the season to say it was the right move to play the long game. This roster is much better than the slop we had last year, but we don't have the luxury to experiment at QB. Play the guy who has a real shot at getting us to 5 wins.

If KT or LK beat out Shapen in practice, they will play.

[BuckyIsAB****]

Well Leach left at 8-4 first. That was not his average either. Didn't he still finish with a losing overall record here? We were not about to go on this massive winning streak everyone thinks. Croom looked good in 07 too hugh? He won 8 games same as Leach. Saw how that ended. You can hold to that argument since he passed but fact is our D was on the skids since Leach came in and was about to come apart - and it did. We had got soft on OL too. Leach wasn't the answer. When are folks going to let him RIP.

Yes we are in trouble now; Arnet didn't dismantle MSU by himself in less than a year.

Leach was 19-17 with a covid year of all SEC teams as his first one. Replacing an absolute disaster of a culture wrecker Moorhead. Keenums laziness, the boosters wanting to put folks like BP back in charge, and Arnett lying put us where we are

[BuckyIsAB****]

Arnett didn't kill us in 10 months; that was already going on. Arnett inherited a mess and it got worse.

Moorhead had #1 D in nation and 3 #1 draftpicks and lost 5 games. No other team with #1 D in nation hasn't made playoffs but us. Also he had SEC all time leading QB rusher. Think about that a minute.

Leach's top 25 wins were a mirage. Almost all of those ranked teams at the time tanked before year end - see LSU game 1.

Then our 2014 season was a mirage too. The folks that were never going to like leach no matter what were a big problem. Folks were mad we were going 9-4 cause it wasnt what they wanted. Joe Moorhead was the same way

[BuckyIsAB****]

I agree with this post, but that wasn't what you said originally. If Lebby goes 5-7 with a loss to Ole Miss, there is no way he is getting fired this year (barring some scandal)

5-7 and you dont beat OM, I am out. I dont mean shit but still.

[Todd4State]

Yep Leach was 2 games above 500 which is no where near Mullen so trying to compare Leach to Mullen is apples and oranges. Mullen was around 23-24 games over 500. Dan played way better SEC teams than Leach did. Again the one good year Leach had, we beat like 1-2 teams with a winning record and they were like barely 7-6. OM was best win at what 8-4 or something. I ain't never said SEC wins are all that matter. Croom was terrible, I've never said he wasn't, but he had one good year just like Leach. If our schedule had been like last year in 22, we'd had a losing record that year too.

I don't think you want to play the "SEC teams were better when Dan was our coach" card when the best team Dan beat in 2014 only won 8 games. Dan was over .500 solely on beating OOC teams which he didn't have to deal with the P5 qualifier for most of his time at MSU.

2020 wasn't a good year but it had a very memorable win over LSU and we did win our bowl game in a very atypical year for everyone. We also would have had a fifth win over Georgia had someone not decided to blitz the house against Georgia on the last critical drive.
2021 we had the largest comeback in school history.
2022 we won 9 games and Leach was one of the few to beat Lane in Oxford. Very underrated win if you ask me.

So even in his "bad years" Leach at least had a very positive memorable moment. Quick- what was the memorable moment for MSU fans of 2012?

[Todd4State]

The amazing thing to me about the Mullen years was the ability to recruit top defensive talent with the turnstile of defensive coordinators.

Probably because most of his assistants that were in good with boosters were on that side of the ball. And Tony Hughes was pretty constant from the beginning.

[Todd4State]

Not true. If you think football ain't won on LOS then pick your chess team and I'll pick my dandy dozen and we'll see how that goes. You assume running the football is for dummies and passing is for smart people. Moorhead tried that out think you crap and it did't work too good. He just had some studs on both sides of the ball that made him look smarter than he was.

Leach did bring some discipline back we lost with Moorhead but we started losing a ton of talent especially on LOS. Dan played smart but he knows you have to have the dudes to win and he got them.

Moorhead was actually pretty run heavy here. Moreso than probably anywhere else. Losing talent on the LOS? You mean like Charles Cross? And meanwhile Dan recruited the LOS so well we had to in separate years move a TE to OT and a DT to OT because we literally had NO ONE else and no other choice.

[Bothrops]

Im not sure Leach would have wanted to carry on much longer in this entitled player environment. He probably would have retired earlier because of it. I would have never believed college football would have jumped off the diving board in the dark like it has, had you told me ten years ago. It still blows my mind.

[R2Dawg]

Leach was 19-17 with a covid year of all SEC teams as his first one. Replacing an absolute disaster of a culture wrecker Moorhead. Keenums laziness, the boosters wanting to put folks like BP back in charge, and Arnett lying put us where we are

Leach had 3 years of impact. CZA didn't deplete the program in 9 months. Last time I checked, every team had to deal with Covid. Everyone knows Moorhead wrecked what Mullen built.

[R2Dawg]

Moorhead was actually pretty run heavy here. Moreso than probably anywhere else. Losing talent on the LOS? You mean like Charles Cross? And meanwhile Dan recruited the LOS so well we had to in separate years move a TE to OT and a DT to OT because we literally had NO ONE else and no other choice.

Look at Mullen's LOS in his tenure. Best stretch in MSU history. I know you are a baseball guy but my goodness Stevie Wonder can see how good we were on LOS in those years.

Hah, I'd love to have some Charles Crosses now or anytime the last 4 years even if he wasn't the best.

[Leroy Jenkins]

I remember pre-portal I could give you a 2-deep off the top of my head and where they played HS ball. Now, I couldn?t tell you most of these guy?s names.

[Todd4State]

Look at Mullen's LOS in his tenure. Best stretch in MSU history. I know you are a baseball guy but my goodness Stevie Wonder can see how good we were on LOS in those years.

Hah, I'd love to have some Charles Crosses now or anytime the last 4 years even if he wasn't the best.

The best stretch in MSU history was from 1996-2000.

I'd argue that we grossly underachieved in 2015 because of the o-line. They were a big reason why we lost the Egg Bowl in 2014-2015.

And even on the defensive side Dan only really started Chris Jones full time one year. Which is crazy. Things like that held us back under Dan big time.

[basedog]

As far as Msu football history goes, DM was one of our best coaches, regardless of any "faults" he had. I don't understand all the talk about him, he has been gone now and we are on our fourth HC now. As much talk about him wanting out especially those that bash Small town Stark Vegas, I don't see anything wrong with folks looking around for a better job in any occupation. Just saying but to each there own, I would love to have another run like DM had over his career at Msu.

[maroonmania]

We are in this predicament b/c of every single coach post Mullen. Every single one of them has contributed to the pile of shit Lebby was given. Leach wasn't the answer.

Yes, including Lebby himself with the ridiculous hire of a DC who had no credentials or qualifications to be an SEC DC just because of a personal relationship. I certainly hope the 'mentoring' help we are providing this year helps things on that side of the ball. You can only be as bad as we were last year on defense if the talent is bad AND the coaching is bad.

[basedog]

I think as far as young 1st year coaches, they don't have the connections with an experience HC. The thing about Lebby, he has o have learned a whole lot from last year or I hope he has. I'm noy sure what "we" fans expect from a young 1st time Coach when it was obvious the one before had a terrible staff BUt had a better group of players than what Lebby had. Just saying.

[BuckyIsAB****]

Leach had 3 years of impact. CZA didn't deplete the program in 9 months. Last time I checked, every team had to deal with Covid. Everyone knows Moorhead wrecked what Mullen built.

So everyone had to deal with covid and replacing a train wreck and going to the air raid when our best passers in school history at the ran the ball just about as much as they threw it? Come on dude

[TrapGame]

Yes, including Lebby himself with the ridiculous hire of a DC who had no credentials or qualifications to be an SEC DC just because of a personal relationship. I certainly hope the 'mentoring' help we are providing this year helps things on that side of the ball. You can only be as bad as we were last year on defense if the talent is bad AND the coaching is bad.

75% of the guys on defense last year should be playing for Millsaps or Prairie View. The defense actually started looking better by the end of the season. The offense had a true freshman with talent but made some bad decisions in the pocket. We had zero run game most of the season. That has been remedied. I would not be surprised if we have the Arizona State Effect next season due to our portal upgrades. I'm not saying we make the playoffs by any stretch but will be be greatly improved over last year.

[viverlibre]

75% of the guys on defense last year should be playing for Millsaps or Prairie View. The defense actually started looking better by the end of the season. The offense had a true freshman with talent but made some bad decisions in the pocket. We had zero run game most of the season. That has been remedied. I would not be surprised if we have the Arizona State Effect next season due to our portal upgrades. I'm not saying we make the playoffs by any stretch but will be be greatly improved over last year.

I think 5 wins will show good progress. For me the floor is 4 wins, if less than that, we have to seriously consider moving on from Levee. We have three (hopefully) automatic wins, to win 4 means beating ASU at home or Ark on the road. Do both and it's 5 wins, add an upset of OM or Misery and we're bowling and optimism is sky high.

[Todd4State]

As far as Msu football history goes, DM was one of our best coaches, regardless of any "faults" he had. I don't understand all the talk about him, he has been gone now and we are on our fourth HC now. As much talk about him wanting out especially those that bash Small town Stark Vegas, I don't see anything wrong with folks looking around for a better job in any occupation. Just saying but to each there own, I would love to have another run like DM had over his career at Msu.

No one is saying that Dan wasn't successful here. I'm very grateful for 2010 and 2014. But to act like everything was perfect under him and to act like it was never good before or after him as far as MSU football is concerned just simply isn't accurate.

[Todd4State]

75% of the guys on defense last year should be playing for Millsaps or Prairie View. The defense actually started looking better by the end of the season. The offense had a true freshman with talent but made some bad decisions in the pocket. We had zero run game most of the season. That has been remedied. I would not be surprised if we have the Arizona State Effect next season due to our portal upgrades. I'm not saying we make the playoffs by any stretch but will be be greatly improved over last year.

I could see us making a jump to 5-6 wins and then making a significant jump in 2026. I think that's similar to what happened at Arizona or Arizona State.

[basedog]

No one is saying that Dan wasn't successful here. I'm very grateful for 2010 and 2014. But to act like everything was perfect under him and to act like it was never good before or after him as far as MSU football is concerned just simply isn't accurate.

Never said he was perfect, my point was he was one of our best HC for football.

[TrapGame]

I could see us making a jump to 5-6 wins and then making a significant jump in 2026. I think that's similar to what happened at Arizona or Arizona State.

ASU was 2-10 or maybe 3-9 the year before and scored some good portal players to fill some holes.They went from an abysmal record to making the playoffs. I think we will be in a similar situation next season, just not making the playoff part. I think we can get 5-6 wins. Beating ASU will be huge even if they don't have Scooby Doo and some of those guys on defense from last year.

[TrapGame]

I think 5 wins will show good progress. For me the floor is 4 wins, if less than that, we have to seriously consider moving on from Levee. We have three (hopefully) automatic wins, to win 4 means beating ASU at home or Ark on the road. Do both and it's 5 wins, add an upset of OM or Misery and we're bowling and optimism is sky high.

We go 3-9 next year Lebby has to go, but I seriously doubt that happens.

[Dawgology]

We go 3-9 next year Lebby has to go, but I seriously doubt that happens.

I seriously think we go 2-10 again. Not hating it’s just that this program is cooked and we dont have donors or boosters interested enough to pay enough to win. They want to status quo. They want access to the program and to rub elbows with coaches, players, and other donors to make financial deals. It’s a glorified social club at that level and that’s as far as the interest goes. That combined with annually having one of the toughest schedules in the country is just a recipe for where we are and where we will stay. It’s unfortunate.

[Coach34]

ASU was 2-10 or maybe 3-9 the year before and scored some good portal players to fill some holes.They went from an abysmal record to making the playoffs. I think we will be in a similar situation next season, just not making the playoff part. I think we can get 5-6 wins. Beating ASU will be huge even if they don't have Scooby Doo and some of those guys on defense from last year.

ASU plays in the Big 12. We play in the SEC. Huge difference

[Coach34]

We go 3-9 next year Lebby has to go, but I seriously doubt that happens.

Why? What about our roster tells you we should win 5-6 games?

[TrapGame]

ASU plays in the Big 12. We play in the SEC. Huge difference

No shit, Sherlock.


Why? What about our roster tells you we should win 5-6 games?

I guess I'm optimist. I don't gloom and doom or think the worst is going to happen. Of course, positivity has frowned upon around here.

[Coach34]

I mean its great to have optimism. I wish I had some. But our roster is a lower level P5 roster. It is what it is. Lebby could do a great coaching job and still go 4-8.

Lose the Arizona State game- and we are facing 3-9 in the face. All of our semi-toss-up games are on the road.

[maroonmania]

No shit, Sherlock.



I guess I'm optimist. I don't gloom and doom or think the worst is going to happen. Of course, positivity has frowned upon around here.

Guess that really magnifies the craphole we are in when an 'optimist' thinks we could win 5 to 6 games. :(

[TrapGame]

I mean its great to have optimism. I wish I had some. But our roster is a lower level P5 roster. It is what it is. Lebby could do a great coaching job and still go 4-8.

Lose the Arizona State game- and we are facing 3-9 in the face. All of our semi-toss-up games are on the road.

Lose the ASU game and I'll be pissed. All 4 non-cons and 1 low fruit SEC team like Arkansas would be a good rebuilding year. There's some light at the end of the tunnel.


Guess that really magnifies the craphole we are in when an 'optimist' thinks we could win 5 to 6 games. :(

I'm an optimist not a delusional idiot. This program is in a hole.

[StarkVegasSteve]

I mean its great to have optimism. I wish I had some. But our roster is a lower level P5 roster. It is what it is. Lebby could do a great coaching job and still go 4-8.

Lose the Arizona State game- and we are facing 3-9 in the face. All of our semi-toss-up games are on the road.

But it is a P5 roster, we couldn't say that last year. So that gives me hope that we can get to 5-6 wins if we catch a team or two sleeping.

[maroonmania]

But it is a P5 roster

We certainly hope it is. We will find out soon enough.I guess.

[confucius say]

Lose the ASU game and I'll be pissed. All 4 non-cons and 1 low fruit SEC team like Arkansas would be a good rebuilding year. There's some light at the end of the tunnel.



I'm an optimist not a delusional idiot. This program is in a hole.

ASU is picked to win the Big 12 and has the preseason player of the year who is a Heisman candidate playing QB. That would be a massive win. I still think TN at home is your big upset chance.

[TrapGame]

ASU is picked to win the Big 12 and has the preseason player of the year who is a Heisman candidate playing QB. That would be a massive win. I still think TN at home is your big upset chance.

They don't have Scooby Doo. That's a huge plus. I don't understand how Leavitt is considered a Heisman candidate.

And like 34 said, "It's the Big 12."

[StarkVegasSteve]

ASU is picked to win the Big 12 and has the preseason player of the year who is a Heisman candidate playing QB. That would be a massive win. I still think TN at home is your big upset chance.

I just don't see it with Arizona St. Leavitt is going to have to carry a lot more of the load this year. There's no Skattebo there when things get tough.

[confucius say]

He's a really good runner. That's what worries me more than his arm.

[SpaceBully]

Kromenhoek is a more talented version of Fitzgerald. He can play and COULD be deadly in this system. Unfortunately for him, he may have the second coming of Cam Newton also in the QB room with him.

As for Shapen, yes he QB?d the Toledo game. Our first 3 drives in that game had 2 killer penalties and 2 sacks where Shapen had about a second to throw. On our fourth drive, we get a false start penalty at the 1 after Shapen had driven us down there and had to settle for a FG. Our 5th drive, after we are down 21-3, Shapen again gets sacked and it kills the drive. You can blame stuff on Shapen last year, but the Toledo game is not something he should catch blame for.

Whoever our QB is will only be as good as the OL in front of him.

[SpaceBully]

Don't understand the blame that Shapen gets for Toledo at all. If he threw 3-5 interceptions and was below 50% completing his passes and maybe had a fumble or two in there then Ok.

Our defense gave up 41 points and our offensive line simply didn't show up.

I saw one poll the other day that had N. Illinois at #25. So there's that.

[Hot Rock]

5-7 and you dont beat OM, I am out. I dont mean shit but still.

You serious? Ole Miss? roster is way better than State?s. Yes, State can win it but if they do then they are probably going bowling and Lebby should be coach of year candidate.

Yes DC is suspect but he has better players this year but he has to show he belongs. Why keep him? We are desperate for some continuity and No decent DC is taking this job right now. Plus, the defense did play better toward end of year and Lebby brought in some experienced analyst to help.

5-7 if any fashion means this team has made huge strides! You out? I was never OUT! Even during the Croom years. Why quit now? I may want a new DC after this year but Lebby? Give the guy a chance.

[KOdawg1]

As bad as we were last year, we still almost won that game vs. Arizona State on the road.

Take away the roided out white dude and they are absolutely beatable at home.

[Coach34]

As bad as we were last year, we still almost won that game vs. Arizona State on the road.

Take away the roided out white dude and they are absolutely beatable at home.

I get having optimism and all that. Hope springs eternal. But I'm worried about playing the Nasty Bunch in the opener. Is our roster better than last year? Absolutely. Is their roster better? Yes also.

We likely win but I dont think it will be easy. Vegas had it at -14 and it has since dropped to -13.5. People are betting on the Nasty Bunch.

[KOdawg1]

I get having optimism and all that. Hope springs eternal. But I'm worried about playing the Nasty Bunch in the opener. Is our roster better than last year? Absolutely. Is their roster better? Yes also.

We likely win but I dont think it will be easy. Vegas had it at -14 and it has since dropped to -13.5. People are betting on the Nasty Bunch.

Won't be a gimme for sure. They're basically half of Marshall's team from last year that won the Sun Belt. Just get in and out with a win.

[maroonmania]

Yes DC is suspect but he has better players this year but he has to show he belongs. Why keep him? We are desperate for some continuity and No decent DC is taking this job right now.

This is ridiculous, whether last year when Lebby first made the hire or this year. Most any G5 DC would take our SEC DC job given the 7 figures we are paying Hutzler. And there are probably some P4 DCs that would have taken it. Coordinating a defense and forming a gameplan and making in game calls is totally different than being a defensive position coach. Lebby would have been much better served to have gotten someone who had experience already having been a quality DC on some level. Hutzler was sold to us as some great recruiter but that certainly hasn't been the case for us. Of course I could recruit to Alabama.

[Todd4State]

This is ridiculous, whether last year when Lebby first made the hire or this year. Most any G5 DC would take our SEC DC job given the 7 figures we are paying Hutzler. And there are probably some P4 DCs that would have taken it. Coordinating a defense and forming a gameplan and making in game calls is totally different than being a defensive position coach. Lebby would have been much better served to have gotten someone who had experience already having been a quality DC on some level. Hutzler was sold to us as some great recruiter but that certainly hasn't been the case for us. Of course I could recruit to Alabama.

Heck, we have two guys on staff right now that I would promote to DC in a heartbeat over Hutzler in McIntyre and Rhoads. I don't think anyone would be shocked if that ends up happening eventually.

Last year there was hardly any coaching turnover in the SEC and for the first time I can remember I think everyone returned their head coach. Maybe because of the political stuff involving college football plus insanely high buyouts but my guess is that could lead to a lot more turnover this next offseason now that schools know what they're working with. We could very well see coaching changes at Auburn and LSU this offseason and not to mention people like Kentucky and Arkansas- two SEC blueblood jobs plus two other SEC jobs coming open would create a lot of turnover in college football.

Was that a factor in keeping Hutzler? Potentially and probably.

[Todd4State]

I saw one poll the other day that had N. Illinois at #25. So there's that.

Not surprised since they're on our schedule. As soon as they beat Notre Dame Selmon should have bought them out.

[Todd4State]

I just don't see it with Arizona St. Leavitt is going to have to carry a lot more of the load this year. There's no Skattebo there when things get tough.

And I think if we played them in Starkville instead of Tempe we would have won. Barely. But they barely beat us at home with a NFL running back.

We are significantly better than we were at this time last year.

[Todd4State]

I get having optimism and all that. Hope springs eternal. But I'm worried about playing the Nasty Bunch in the opener. Is our roster better than last year? Absolutely. Is their roster better? Yes also.

We likely win but I dont think it will be easy. Vegas had it at -14 and it has since dropped to -13.5. People are betting on the Nasty Bunch.

I don't think it will be easy either and Lebby better win because if he loses that game he is going to lose a ton of support. Similar to Croom losing to Maine.

I'm just not sure that he can recover from it. And probably won't.

[ZedFedder]

Northern Illinois beat Notre Dame but they are not some G5 juggernaut.

[R2Dawg]

I don't think it will be easy either and Lebby better win because if he loses that game he is going to lose a ton of support. Similar to Croom losing to Maine.

I'm just not sure that he can recover from it. And probably won't.

Agree. I said in another thread, this game be tougher than some expect and want. Still doesn't mean we are not much improved and can't have a good year win 4-6 games.

But yeah if we don't win, it may be over for Lebby, the wheels will come off.

[Pancho]

not saying it ends up in a 5 or 6 win season but the record must be now worse than 3-1 after the first 4 games.

[confucius say]

And I think if we played them in Starkville instead of Tempe we would have won. Barely. But they barely beat us at home with a NFL running back.

We are significantly better than we were at this time last year.

True. But they improved a ton over the season. They lost to Texas in overtime at the end. Not sure what they have back other than Heisman candidate QB (15 in Heisman odds), but they are picked to win Big 12

[Pancho]

they are like #12 preseason. be a huge W for the dogs

[Lance Harbor]

And KBJ and Trevion

In the Portal era, we can't be going by first names and initials preseason. Help us old timers understand.

[Hot Rock]

This is ridiculous, whether last year when Lebby first made the hire or this year. Most any G5 DC would take our SEC DC job given the 7 figures we are paying Hutzler. And there are probably some P4 DCs that would have taken it. Coordinating a defense and forming a gameplan and making in game calls is totally different than being a defensive position coach. Lebby would have been much better served to have gotten someone who had experience already having been a quality DC on some level. Hutzler was sold to us as some great recruiter but that certainly hasn't been the case for us. Of course I could recruit to Alabama.

I say any G5 DC that is any good would not jump at the chance. A coach that good most likely has better options than this dumpster fire of a roster having to compete in the SEC. The hire might even be worse if we fired the guy having to navigate last years schedule with that roster. Changing coaches as many times as we have the last few years has created an environment where we are desperate to have some continuity. Lebby made his choice based on real options and knowledge, your thoughts are not grounded in nearly as much knowledge as Lebby possesses. Why would I trust your opinion over his?

People keep ignoring how much better the defense played as the year progressed and the roster is better this year. Let it play out. Firing a DC with last years roster would be a huge mistake, but showing support with NIL and experienced analyst to help him will give a guy like you are talking about more thought of coming here. He would get paid. I will say this, if the defense does suck and they fire him at the end of the year, we better pony up with the NIL and salary or we won't get anyone better and maybe worse.

[Goldendawg]

I say any G5 DC that is any good would not jump at the chance. A coach that good most likely has better options than this dumpster fire of a roster having to compete in the SEC. The hire might even be worse if we fired the guy having to navigate last years schedule with that roster. Changing coaches as many times as we have the last few years has created an environment where we are desperate to have some continuity. Lebby made his choice based on real options and knowledge, your thoughts are not grounded in nearly as much knowledge as Lebby possesses. Why would I trust your opinion over his?

People keep ignoring how much better the defense played as the year progressed and the roster is better this year. Let it play out. Firing a DC with last years roster would be a huge mistake, but showing support with NIL and experienced analyst to help him will give a guy like you are talking about more thought of coming here. He would get paid. I will say this, if the defense does suck and they fire him at the end of the year, we better pony up with the NIL and salary or we won't get anyone better and maybe worse.

A "DC" who had never been a "DC" working for another of our long line of OTJ training assistant coaches hired to be our HC. We learn nothing from our history of past hiring practices. Name me the successful hires in these situations outside of Tyler, Mullen and maybe Bellard before he ran out of Tyler's recruits. 2-10 and 0-8 is pitiful even for us. We must have wins and competitive losses this year. Plenty of good seats still available even in West Sections 3,4, and 5 as I get e-mails very often. Ony winning will fix this mess and give the long suffering fanbase hope.

[StarkVegasSteve]

I say any G5 DC that is any good would not jump at the chance. A coach that good most likely has better options than this dumpster fire of a roster having to compete in the SEC. The hire might even be worse if we fired the guy having to navigate last years schedule with that roster. Changing coaches as many times as we have the last few years has created an environment where we are desperate to have some continuity. Lebby made his choice based on real options and knowledge, your thoughts are not grounded in nearly as much knowledge as Lebby possesses. Why would I trust your opinion over his?

People keep ignoring how much better the defense played as the year progressed and the roster is better this year. Let it play out. Firing a DC with last years roster would be a huge mistake, but showing support with NIL and experienced analyst to help him will give a guy like you are talking about more thought of coming here. He would get paid. I will say this, if the defense does suck and they fire him at the end of the year, we better pony up with the NIL and salary or we won't get anyone better and maybe worse.

Look I agree that we got better as the year went along. I thought schematically we were better and were able to cause some TOs and thought from an effort standpoint we were better. But I keep seeing this we got so much better as the year went along and I specifically remember writing this in my year end thoughts, "Don't let this game alter your opinion of the defense overall." I think we have too many people that are letting the Egg Bowl warp their outlook on the defense and try to turn the narrative that we played better as the year went on. After the not lining up fiasco against Florida, here's how many yds we gave up a game:

Texas: 325 passing/198 rushing- 523 total
UGA: 459 passing/146 rushing- 605 total
A&M: 217 passing/136 rushing-353 total
Arky: 314 passing/359 rushing-673 total
UMASS: 136 passing/199 rushing-335 total
Tenn: 212 passing/240 rushing-452 total
Mizzou: 268 passing/204 rushing-472 total
Ole Miss: 143 passing/254 rushing-397 total


Like at no point in the year would I say we "turned the corner" or "started improving". I mean we were able to force some TOs against some teams down the stretch and we basically sold out to defend the pass against OM but other than that, teams did what they wanted to us when they wanted to do it.

[DownwardDawg]

I don't think it will be easy either and Lebby better win because if he loses that game he is going to lose a ton of support. Similar to Croom losing to Maine.

I'm just not sure that he can recover from it. And probably won't.

If we lose to USM, which is highly possible, Lebby is done. He will never recover. TV home games will have to make sure the cameras don't show the stands. It'll be a ghost town.

[mparkerfd20]

We have without arguement the worst defensive staff in all of college football including JUCO returning so I just can't even make myself care.

[Coach34]

We have without arguement the worst defensive staff in all of college football including JUCO returning so I just can't even make myself care.

This is bullshit. And we do have an actual P4 defense talent wise this season. Its lower end P4- but P4 nonetheless

[Todd4State]

If we lose to USM, which is highly possible, Lebby is done. He will never recover. TV home games will have to make sure the cameras don't show the stands. It'll be a ghost town.

Yeah. You'll hear our fans say "I lost him when he lost to USM" if that happens. We're going to have to bring it and hopefully Hutzler has us lining up correctly this year.

[MoreCowbell]

I'll take a really wild guess at the depth chart

QB- Blake Shapen with Kamario Taylor as the back up.
RB1- Davon Booth
RB2- Fluff Bothwell
RB3- Xavier Gayten
H-Back/FB- Max Reese
WR- Ayden Williams
WR- SanFrisco Magee
Slot- Brenen Thompson- he seemed to appear a lot on highlight videos from MSU.
Slot- Cam Thompson
Slot- Anthony Evans
WR- Markus Allen
WR- Ricky Johnson
TE- Sam West
H-Back/WR- Seydou Traore
Secret redzone weapon- Emeka Iloh
C- Brennan Smith
G- Trevor Mayberry
G- Blake Steen
LT- Albert Reese
RT- Jimothy Lewis


DE- Trevion Williams if he is healthy, maybe Jaray Bledsoe
DT- Will Whitson
DT- Kai McClendon
DE- Jamil Burroughs- I have a really good feeling about him

MLB- Branden Jennings
OLB- Jalen Smith or Zakari Tillman
EDGE- Raishen Thomas or Malik Sylla- probably in that order
STAR- Isaac Smith

CB- Kelley Jones
CB- Dwight Lewis
S- Jahron Manning
S- Tony Mitchell
S- Stonka

K- Kyle Ferrie
P- Ethan Pulliam
KO- Marlon Hauck
LS- Ethan Myers

KR/PR- Cam Thompson
KR/PR- Brenen Thompson

Not even joking, I know who 5 players are and never heard of any others

[MoreCowbell]

Look I agree that we got better as the year went along. I thought schematically we were better and were able to cause some TOs and thought from an effort standpoint we were better. But I keep seeing this we got so much better as the year went along and I specifically remember writing this in my year end thoughts, "Don't let this game alter your opinion of the defense overall." I think we have too many people that are letting the Egg Bowl warp their outlook on the defense and try to turn the narrative that we played better as the year went on. After the not lining up fiasco against Florida, here's how many yds we gave up a game:

Texas: 325 passing/198 rushing- 523 total
UGA: 459 passing/146 rushing- 605 total
A&M: 217 passing/136 rushing-353 total
Arky: 314 passing/359 rushing-673 total
UMASS: 136 passing/199 rushing-335 total
Tenn: 212 passing/240 rushing-452 total
Mizzou: 268 passing/204 rushing-472 total
Ole Miss: 143 passing/254 rushing-397 total


Like at no point in the year would I say we "turned the corner" or "started improving". I mean we were able to force some TOs against some teams down the stretch and we basically sold out to defend the pass against OM but other than that, teams did what they wanted to us when they wanted to do it.

Hard to judge him though, DII talent in SEC gives no DC a chance

[MoreCowbell]

Leach left us at 9-4. If that's not the answer then we're Alabama.

Could not tell you how one game played out that year. Was always hard football to watch.

[StarkVegasSteve]

Hard to judge him though, DII talent in SEC gives no DC a chance

And you're not wrong. Because we had multiple guys last year that had no business playing in the SEC, much less starting. And we definitely got better, as C34 said we know have P4 athletes. They may be on the lower end but they are actual P4 athletes. I'm very excited for a guy like Jalen Smith. I think he's going to be a leader on this defense. I also think Jamil Burroughs is going to end up being a huge hit for us from a signing perspective. He cost us almost nothing and I think we're going to get great production from him. Those are the types of guys you have to hit on to work your way back.

[Hot Rock]

A "DC" who had never been a "DC" working for another of our long line of OTJ training assistant coaches hired to be our HC. We learn nothing from our history of past hiring practices. Name me the successful hires in these situations outside of Tyler, Mullen and maybe Bellard before he ran out of Tyler's recruits. 2-10 and 0-8 is pitiful even for us. We must have wins and competitive losses this year. Plenty of good seats still available even in West Sections 3,4, and 5 as I get e-mails very often. Ony winning will fix this mess and give the long suffering fanbase hope.

Like I said, Lebby knows way more about the situation than either of us. I am not the one with the knowledge or expertise and guess what, neither are you. Hutzler was retained, I hope he does well and if that defense is not improved, I won't have to worry about wanting him getting fired, it will be done as Lebby will have to fire him if he can't put a better product on the field. I think he will but I am not the one paying his bill. He already knows.

[Goldendawg]

Like I said, Lebby knows way more about the situation than either of us. I am not the one with the knowledge or expertise and guess what, neither are you. Hutzler was retained, I hope he does well and if that defense is not improved, I won't have to worry about wanting him getting fired, it will be done as Lebby will have to fire him if he can't put a better product on the field. I think he will but I am not the one paying his bill. He already knows.

Agree with needed improvement in 2025 especially on defense, but we as fans still pay a part of the bills even if it is in Season tickets and all that come$ with being there. BTW, I know a little from watching our history after 58 years as season ticket holding family, 8 to 12 usually and being in on The Bulldog Club since Day !. Heck as a teenager, I told my Dad we would not win another game after beating Tech and there we went "Tech and 10"!******

[maroonmania]

Hard to judge him though, DII talent in SEC gives no DC a chance

Yea, our lack of talent was obvious. But lack of talent doesn't cause you not to be able to line up correctly or continue to play 5 men in the box when you are getting run over like what happened in the Arizona St. game. We were poorly coached on defense along with having very little talent. I will admit that the obvious defensive coaching blunders weren't as prevalent toward the end of the year, so hopefully there were some lessons learned. But we just didn't need a guy that was trying to learn how to be a DC. At least he has a year of experience now I guess.

[BuckyIsAB****]

Could not tell you how one game played out that year. Was always hard football to watch.

And that is why Moorhead failed and why Leach couldve go 94-0 and y?all would have said the same thing. There is a tiny part of me that thinks we are getting what we deserve a little bit

[bulldawg28]

And that is why Moorhead failed and why Leach couldve go 94-0 and y?all would have said the same thing. There is a tiny part of me that thinks we are getting what we deserve a little bit

Let it go. Leach is gone so is Will