Florida Gulf Coast Coach

[bully99]

I'm back. No I wasn't banned.
Just listened to the podcast that Matt Stevens does with the Ronnie Musgrove character and they were talking about the upcoming game against FGC on Thursday and their coach, Joe Dooley. Stevens said Dooley desperately wanted the coaching job at State when Ray was hired but Stricklan wouldn't return his calls. Dooley was an assistant at Kansas at the time.
Looked at his bio. Former head Coach at East Carolina. In the past few years was named the top assistant in the country, named one of the best recruiters in college basketball and was begging to come to Starkville.

If what Stevens says is true then how in the hell did we end up with Rick Ray. Some of crap Stricklan does just boggles the mind.

Top assistant, top recruiter, wants to come to Starkville and Stricklan hires a nobody from a nobody team. Ray better win the damn game Thursday.

[MarketingBully01]

Yep, we had opportunities to hire up. That is just one example...

[Raytoraid83]

Bill Self personally called Stricklin to interview Dooley and he never did.

[CadaverDawg]

Bill Self personally called Stricklin to interview Dooley and he never did.

If this is true, and I have no idea if it is....holy shit.

[bully99]

You really have to wonder if Stricklan had a Larry Templeton mentality. He was only going to hire a black coach and the others be damned.

[Raytoraid83]

You really have to wonder if Stricklan had a Larry Templeton mentality. He was only going to hire a black coach and the others be damned.

I don't think race was a factor, more of a completely change the atmosphere of the program. Things like getting out of the AAU circuit and no longer giving players extra benefits and Ray was a guy that would follow those guidelines I guess.

[gravedigger]

There is always a story. Wonder if there is something yours doesn't tell. Not sayin you are lying either. Just saying there may have been a pragmatic reason. Stricklin may be a poor ad but I imagine he didn't make the decision alone.

[bully99]

But Dooley didn't even get a callback or interview. He was a ten year assistant at Kansas, one of the top programs in the country. I'm not so sure it wasn't a Croomesque hire.

[Esmerelda Villalobos]

Never ever heard this. Interesting.
Ill dig a little

[It_Could_Happen]

I hope our program doesn't do what arky did. Fire a legendary coach and it takes 3 hires to get the right guy.

[JOHNHEVESYMADE]

I've heard the same story as Raytoraid83. Stricklin wouldn't return any big boosters phone calls and made this decision solo. Joe Dooley, Kenny Payne, and Kermit Davis all desperately wanted the job. All would have done a much better job, but I'm just waiting till we get rid of Rick Ray and hoping we don't screw up the next hire.

[bully99]

Should have hired Joe Dean jr. as AD. He really wanted to come home.

[Political Hack]

His name was squarely in the mix. Was almost a "about to be hired" type situation.

To be honest, I thought he was interviewed. I know he wanted it badly but we didn't choose him. He's a great coach but has been a career assistant with no ties to Mississippi or the SEC that I'm aware of. Either way though, the guy is a hell of a coach.

If they beat us with him, I think it's going to speak volumes about where the program is and where it could be. Let's hope we made the right decision.

[JOHNHEVESYMADE]

His name was squarely in the mix. Was almost a "about to be hired" type situation.

To be honest, I thought he was interviewed. I know he wanted it badly but we didn't choose him. He's a great coach but has been a career assistant with no ties to Mississippi or the SEC that I'm aware of. Either way though, the guy is a hell of a coach.

If they beat us with him, I think it's going to speak volumes about where the program is and where it could be. Let's hope we made the right decision.

So Rick Ray isn't a career assistant who has ties to the South?

[thunderclap]

If even 25% of this is true, I hope Strick never has to hire a football coach.

[gravedigger]

Any other source than Matthew Stevens?

[Political Hack]

So Rick Ray isn't a career assistant who has ties to the South?

I'm just giving you what my initial impressions were on Dooley. I wasn't trying to do a compare & contrast... I hope I'm wrong on Ray's top end potential, and his willingness to stay at state should he reach that potential.

[Political Hack]

Any other source than Matthew Stevens?

When Thick reads this he'll respond and likely have some insights.

Also, Paul knows if anyone wants to ask him over on 247.

[preachermatt83]

ray's downfall is simple...he cant recruit. period. I am still baffled by that hire.

[DownwardDawg]

If even 25% of this is true, I hope Strick never has to hire a football coach.

This is why those of us that were bitching about Mullen earlier in the season didn't want Strick to make a football hire. It's either Mullen or Hud. If Hud ain't coming, I want Mullen. I don't want Strick to even have the opportunity to make a hire.

[HailState39110]

No Stricklin can't hire. I was a Stans supporter, but ultimately felt we did the right thing to move on. I also felt at the time Stricklin screwed the pooch on the hire, and still do

[K9 Avenger]

If even 25% of this is true, I hope Strick never has to hire a football coach.

Well, you're close....I'd say about 20% of this bullshit thread is true...the butthurt in this thread is strong.

[chef dixon]

Well, you're close....I'd say about 20% of this bullshit thread is true...the butthurt in this thread is strong.

agreed

[Todd4State]

This is why those of us that were bitching about Mullen earlier in the season didn't want Strick to make a football hire. It's either Mullen or Hud. If Hud ain't coming, I want Mullen. I don't want Strick to even have the opportunity to make a hire.

The other side of the coin is we have an example of what might happen and can take measure to prevent it in other sports.

[engie]

Can we please put this "Stricklin hire football coach" talk to rest? ADs are almost never the ones that actually hire football coaches. They are just the ones that make announcements and recommendations. How much have you heard from Steve Patterson in the Texas situation? None? That's because he's a puppet that ain't pulling any strings.

Strick may have botched the basketball search. Time will tell. Basically no chance he gets to make the next search if/when it comes to that -- which, by my estimation, Ray will either prove his worth in year 3 -- or the most he possibly gets is year 4. That said, the "he can't hire" statement is overboard at this point. He seemed to do just fine with Steudeman and Schaefer.

[OurState]

His name was squarely in the mix. Was almost a "about to be hired" type situation.

To be honest, I thought he was interviewed. I know he wanted it badly but we didn't choose him. He's a great coach but has been a career assistant with no ties to Mississippi or the SEC that I'm aware of. Either way though, the guy is a hell of a coach.

If they beat us with him, I think it's going to speak volumes about where the program is and where it could be. Let's hope we made the right decision.

It's this thinking that damns us. Who fking cares if he has ties to MS, the SEC or the south??

[preachermatt83]

Can we please put this "Stricklin hire football coach" talk to rest? ADs are almost never the ones that actually hire football coaches. They are just the ones that make announcements and recommendations. How much have you heard from Steve Patterson in the Texas situation? None? That's because he's a puppet that ain't pulling any strings.

Strick may have botched the basketball search. Time will tell. Basically no chance he gets to make the next search if/when it comes to that -- which, by my estimation, Ray will either prove his worth in year 3 -- or the most he possibly gets is year 4. That said, the "he can't hire" statement is overboard at this point. He seemed to do just fine with Steudeman and Schaefer.


interesting his two good hires were both women's sports. Not saying anything other than I'd never really thought of it that way. odd.

[DownwardDawg]

Can we please put this "Stricklin hire football coach" talk to rest? ADs are almost never the ones that actually hire football coaches. They are just the ones that make announcements and recommendations. How much have you heard from Steve Patterson in the Texas situation? None? That's because he's a puppet that ain't pulling any strings.

Strick may have botched the basketball search. Time will tell. Basically no chance he gets to make the next search if/when it comes to that -- which, by my estimation, Ray will either prove his worth in year 3 -- or the most he possibly gets is year 4. That said, the "he can't hire" statement is overboard at this point. He seemed to do just fine with Steudeman and Schaefer.

All this time I thought Byrne hired Mullen!***

[DownwardDawg]

The other side of the coin is we have an example of what might happen and can take measure to prevent it in other sports.

True.

[Dawg61]

It's more of a killing two birds with one stone kinda thing. Thing is Ray doesn't have to go without a fight. He can save his job. Just hire 3 new assistants (one that's an excellent shooting coach) and drop 4 current or about to be current players with 4 juco studs (one being Pollard). Ray can be in the NIT next season if he wants it bad enough. I know for a million+ a year being the HC at an SEC program I sure as shit would be doing just about anything to keep that job. Will he?

[engie]

All this time I thought Byrne hired Mullen!***

I don't think you understand what a puppet or figurehead is.

The people spending the money make the decisions in football. Has been that way forever. If the AD disagrees with a decision the money boys make, he's WAY easier to get rid of than a football coach. Decisions in football don't get made without calls to a half dozen people that are actually running the show from behind the scenes. You can believe that or not.

[DownwardDawg]

I don't think you understand what a puppet or figurehead is.

The people spending the money make the decisions in football. Has been that way forever. If the AD disagrees with a decision the money boys make, he's WAY easier to get rid of than a football coach. Decisions in football don't get made without calls to a half dozen people that are actually running the show from behind the scenes. You can believe that or not.

I was really just messin with ya engie. Everybody seems a little edgy lately for some reason.

[engie]

Basketball is just a sore subject for most. It's hard to be patient with as far as we've fallen, while the team to the north west has learned to have good crowds in their water polo arena and appear to be headed in the right direction.

3 years is long enough to know with decent confidence if a good decision has been made IMO. I don't care about recruiting rankings and all that so much just yet under Ray -- I just care about wins and losses. If we aren't in postseason play by the end of next season -- I will start to strongly lean towards the thinking that a mistake has been made in who we hired. For now -- it's wait and see -- but it's tough in basketball. Outside of Sword, we aren't nearly as improved as I had thought and hoped...

[dawgoneyall]

That's the way it shook out

[dawgoneyall]

nm

[Political Hack]

It's this thinking that damns us. Who fking cares if he has ties to MS, the SEC or the south??

basketball and baseball are different animals than football. you have to be able to recruit local talent. if you can't do that, you're not going to win. being from the south or knowing the area is not a prerequisite, but it sure as hell helps.

[bully99]

When Dooley gets to town, I wonder if Matt Stevens has the guts to ask him about the State job, Stevens brought it up so he should question Dooley about it.

[TheDogFather]

Yeah. It's a damn good thing we got rid of that Stansbury no-count.

[MarketingBully01]

Ray was the worst one to go with by this account. He had worse credentials then Dooley. And another thing, he won't get rid of his assistants because he hired a bunch of his buds (sound familiar) and kept the worst assistant that was on Rick's staff. The only assistant worth a crap on that staff right now is Flanegan. We won't improve so eventually everyone will be on the side of getting rid of the Ray/Croom experiment. I just don't think our fans understand how far back this hire set us back period nor do I think most of our fans even care. Heck, we are literally packing hundreds into the Hump. That alone should tell you Strcklin made a shitty hire.

[MarketingBully01]

The butthurt maybe strong in this thread but we are all suffering the calamity of this crappy basketball regime so we all lose...

[Political Hack]

My biggest concern is that Stricklin took three revenue sports and made it two. It's not like we we're doing anything amazing in basketball before, but at least the Hump was a great atmosphere and we were selling tickets.

[Thick]

I do know that Dooley's name was brought to Stricklin's attention, but I don't know why he never entertained him with an interview. Later this week I will be speaking to a few of our bball boosters, and I will ask. I really is amazing that he hired Schafer and Steudaman, but MAY have completely whiffed on the Ray hire.

[Fader21]

I just love how some fans can't even give a coach a chance to succeed. There are some fans who wanted Ray to fail even before he coached his first game. I hate our fair weather fans. Support the team and the coach.

[Thick]

I do know that Dooley's name was brought to Stricklin's attention, but I don't know why he never entertained him with an interview. Later this week I will be speaking to a few of our bball boosters, and I will ask. It really is amazing that he hired Schafer and Steudaman, but MAY have completely whiffed on the Ray hire.

[FlabLoser]

MAY being the key word.

I'm as puzzled as you guys about the basketball hire. BUT...look at the results. Looks to me like so far we are seeing what we want to see out of our basketball coach.

[MetEdDawg]

We have got to give Ray a chance before we start talking about blowing this up and saying we failed. Last year we lost to nonconference teams like Alabama A&M, Loyola-Chicago, and Troy. Up to this point in the season, we've lost to Utah State and TCU. We haven't lost that game where you say "My God that was awful". Should we have beaten TCU? Yeah probably. Should we beat teams that we've played by more? Maybe. But we aren't losing these games. That's improvement over last year.

We've still got a chance to outperform last year's win total before we even get to conference play this year. We are not playing as well as we wish we were, but we aren't losing games that we did last year. We've still got a big hill to overcome, but the team is still hustling and playing good defense. We improved significantly from the beginning of the season to the end of the season last year and I think we will do the same this year. Got to give Ray a chance to see what he can do.

If we get to 14 or 15 wins, how can we say he's not doing better? We all want to quickly get back to where under Stansbury to validate ourselves that we made the right decision in getting rid of him. Give Ray a chance to build his team. When this group of guys like Sword, Thomas, and Ware are seniors and Ready is a junior, I think we will have something good.

[Ronny]

1) If Dooley was our current coach we would still be 6-2.

2) When you people infer Croom & Ray were affirmative action hires used to fill a liberal quota, you sounding like some Ole Miss asshole who sees everything in life through the prism of white victimization.

[CadaverDawg]

1) If Dooley was our current coach we would still be 6-2.

2) When you people infer Croom & Ray were affirmative action hires used to fill a liberal quota, you sounding like some Ole Miss asshole who sees everything in life through the prism of white victimization.

Not that you were directing your post at me,but this seemed like a good point to clarify...when I said he was looking like a Croomesque hire at this point, I was not referring to his race at all. I was referring to a coach that our AD probably didn't see winning at a high level, but would clean up the dumpster fire our program had become. And if Ray doesn't start picking up the recruiting...that's exactly what he will be. Has nothing to do with his race IMO. We could have brought in a white coach with his credentials and I would have still been underwhelmed with the hire and feeling like it was a "clean up" hire if the results were the same at this point.

That being said, I'm far from throwing in the towel on Ray. He will at least get this year and next year and then probably an additional recruiting class to see what he can do. Hopefully he gets these guys playing hard like they were last year...that would be a good start. The effort has not been as high this year so far from what I've seen.

[tcdog70]

1) If Dooley was our current coach we would still be 6-2.

2) When you people infer Croom & Ray were affirmative action hires used to fill a liberal quota, you sounding like some Ole Miss asshole who sees everything in life through the prism of white victimization.


How the 17 do you know that we would be 6-2? Dooley might have even recruited some players that could actually play.He might not have kicked off Lewis and the only 3 point shooter we have. Hell , he might have kept, Hood and Gray. Pollard might be playing. He might even could coach them to play defense. Or make a free throw . With the way fouls are being called good free throw shooters are very important. Getting to the line and being able to convert is more important today than ever.A team that bricks free throws won't win shit.

[HoopsDawg]

1) If Dooley was our current coach we would still be 6-2.

2) When you people infer Croom & Ray were affirmative action hires used to fill a liberal quota, you sounding like some Ole Miss asshole who sees everything in life through the prism of white victimization.

6-2 may sound good to you, but we struggled to beat SELA, Jackson State, and Loyola. We are going to win 2 or 3 SEC games this year.

[Coach34]

We are going to win 2 or 3 SEC games this year.

I'd hold off on saying that. Much like Mullen and football- I'd let it play out.

[C222]

How the 17 do you know that we would be 6-2? Dooley might have even recruited some players that could actually play.He might not have kicked off Lewis and the only 3 point shooter we have. Hell , he might have kept, Hood and Gray. Pollard might be playing. He might even could coach them to play defense. Or make a free throw . With the way fouls are being called good free throw shooters are very important. Getting to the line and being able to convert is more important today than ever.A team that bricks free throws won't win shit.

This is my favorite narrative. Every other possible head coach we could've hired would have kept Hood and Gray and landed Pollard. So funny.

[bully99]

Everybody can judge the coaching matchup for themselves on Thursday. The game is on TV. CSS if you get that and probably on the internet. 8 pm Mississippi time.(

[Percho]

This is my favorite narrative. Every other possible head coach we could've hired would have kept Hood and Gray and landed Pollard. So funny.


And Steele would have played hurt and be making 7 threes a game.

[CadaverDawg]

This is my favorite narrative. Every other possible head coach we could've hired would have kept Hood and Gray and landed Pollard. So funny.

What's even funnier is when someone says, "who knows, he might have been able to _____.", and you follow it up with a post claiming they said "he would have been able to ____.". Why do you always have to twist words on here? Not trying to take up for tcdog, because he can take up for himself, but he didn't say that Dooley WOULD have kept anybody. He said "you never know", and he's right...we won't ever know.

[MarketingBully01]

Given Dooley's known recruiting ability, him having a championship ring as an assistant, and him being the right hand man of Bill Self at Kansas, you would have to believe our roster would be in better shape then it is now statistically speaking of course.

[MarketingBully01]

As I have said before, Ray is no Mullen. Heck, he didn't even have the pedigree of a Mullen. Dooley, Haas, and Collins all had Mullen pedigrees. Ray does not.

[tcdog70]

What's even funnier is when someone says, "who knows, he might have been able to _____.", and you follow it up with a post claiming they said "he would have been able to ____.". Why do you always have to twist words on here? Not trying to take up for tcdog, because he can take up for himself, but he didn't say that Dooley WOULD have kept anybody. He said "you never know", and he's right...we won't ever know.


Ha, thanks Cadaver, I never said, he would have I said be might have.Ill bet that Dooley wouldn't have Us in the shitty place we are now. If you tried to **** up recruiting you couldn't **** it up worse than Rick Ray has. He has one post player, one 5'9" freshman point guard( who before the season everyone was raving about ) and no one that can shoot a three. The worst thing about the SS snafu is the once proud atmosphere of the HUMP is gone shit and the hogs have ate it. Basketball was my favorite MSU sport ( since Joe Dan Gold) and now I want to puke . I don't care what people say about Rick Stanbury , but He took us to a place in SEC sports where only Baseball has been before. So please come up with something besides the Stansbury Bashing.

[Johnson85]

I do know that Dooley's name was brought to Stricklin's attention, but I don't know why he never entertained him with an interview. Later this week I will be speaking to a few of our bball boosters, and I will ask. It really is amazing that he hired Schafer and Steudaman, but MAY have completely whiffed on the Ray hire.

The not interviewing him part is the only part that would concern me. Based on what he has done so far, you have to think he would have been a good hire for us too. But while his resume was certainly solid, it doesn't look to me like it would have been idiotic to hire Ray over him. There are a lot of good assistants that wouldn't be good head coaches. But if he didn't even take a phone call from a NC coach who was recommending an assistant, that would bother me.

[smootness]

What's even funnier is when someone says, "who knows, he might have been able to _____.", and you follow it up with a post claiming they said "he would have been able to ____.". Why do you always have to twist words on here? Not trying to take up for tcdog, because he can take up for himself, but he didn't say that Dooley WOULD have kept anybody. He said "you never know", and he's right...we won't ever know.

Well, that's an awful argument for anything, though. It's pretty clear he's trying to say that Dooley would have done more than Ray, he's just using softer phrasing.

We can play this game all day long, though. Who knows, maybe Dooley would have recruited 4 complete thugs who would have shot up the campus and killed students and then our basketball program maybe would have been banned from ever competing again, and then we'd possibly have a huge black eye to the entire university, and then maybe our overall revenue would go down by a lot, then our football team might not be able to compete at the level they are now, then potentially they'd have to take money from baseball just to field a team, then perhaps Cohen would leave and our baseball program would go down in the dumps.

I mean, I'm right, we won't ever know.

[smootness]

The worst thing about the SS snafu is the once proud atmosphere of the HUMP is gone shit and the hogs have ate it. Basketball was my favorite MSU sport ( since Joe Dan Gold) and now I want to puke . I don't care what people say about Rick Stanbury , but He took us to a place in SEC sports where only Baseball has been before. So please come up with something besides the Stansbury Bashing.

I know this has been hashed and rehashed, but that was already gone and there were no signs it was coming back under Stans. I was a huge supporter of his, but it became clear by the end that we had to make a change.

As many have said, we can debate the merits of the Ray hire all day, but it has nothing to do with the decision to get rid of Stans. He did take us to a great place, and the Hump was an awesome atmosphere while he was coach. But that had all been gone by at least 2-3 years by the time he was let go.

Nobody was showing up to watch Sidney, Augustus, Ravern, and others make a mockery of what our basketball program had been. Yes, we're at a lower level of success now, but we knew that was an inevitability; it always is when you're trying to fix problems and ultimately take a step even higher than you have been.

The move was made for the long-term. We'll see if Ray is the guy for the job, but even if he's not, we had to make the move so as to eventually try to find the guy to take us to the next level. It was clear that wasn't going to happen under Stans and we were showing pretty clear signs the level was heading back down.

[tcdog70]

Well, that's an awful argument for anything, though. It's pretty clear he's trying to say that Dooley would have done more than Ray, he's just using softer phrasing.

We can play this game all day long, though. Who knows, maybe Dooley would have recruited 4 complete thugs who would have shot up the campus and killed students and then our basketball program maybe would have been banned from ever competing again, and then we'd possibly have a huge black eye to the entire university, and then maybe our overall revenue would go down by a lot, then our football team might not be able to compete at the level they are now, then potentially they'd have to take money from baseball just to field a team, then perhaps Cohen would leave and our baseball program would go down in the dumps.

I mean, I'm right, we won't ever know.

Wow Smoot, what a ridiculous retort

[smootness]

Wow Smoot, what a ridiculous retort

It was hyperbole with the purpose of making a point; the point is that speculation like you made is absurd no matter which side you're arguing and no matter how extreme the hyperbole is. It is done for the purpose of trying to make a point with no evidence to back up your claim.

Would it have been a more legitimate post to say, 'Maybe Dooley would have recruited even worse shooters and focused less on defense, and maybe he would have gone easier on players with drug issues which would have led to the same insubordination we saw under the previous regime?'

No, that post is just as ridiculous as the one you made and my initial response. The bottom line is, that game doesn't get anyone anywhere. There are literally an infinite number of possibilities as to what could have happened if things had gone differently or a different coach was hired.

Sure, things could be better; and things could be worse. We don't know. So what good does it do to play the 'what if' game?

Again, maybe Coach K has always loved Mississippi State and would have come here if we'd offered the job. Or perhaps if Rick Ray hadn't taken the job, we would have had to hire Kodi Augustus because no one else wanted it.

Again, I'm right, nobody knows. Is my point becoming clear? 'Nobody knows, so I'm right that what I said could have happened' is an absurd argument that doesn't get anyone anywhere.

[MarketingBully01]

It couldn't get any worse if we had hired a sixth grader to coach our team. He had three guys in last recruiting class and only one is playing. Not only that he screwed up the roster so bad that we can't even add a late signee aka Pollard that fell into our lap even if he wanted to. Expecting the NIT next year IMO is an exercise in futility.

[smootness]

It couldn't get any worse if we had hired a sixth grader to coach our team. He had three guys in last recruiting class and only one is playing. Not only that he screwed up the roster so bad that we can't even add a late signee aka Pollard that fell into our lap even if he wanted to. Expecting the NIT next year IMO is an exercise in futility.

I'm assuming Ray was looking to build for the future more than this year. It's why people being upset that Ndoye can't play right now is very shortsighted. Ndoye could turn out to be very good; just grabbing anybody that could have played this year over him may have helped us slightly more this year, but it probably doesn't make us better after that.

And everything I've heard is that we'll have Daniels for 2 years after this one as well.

As has been said many, many times, we still need to let it play out a little longer. You have to be patient with these things. It's frustrating as a fan because you feel sometimes like being patient may just be prolonging the necessary move, but it can't be said enough that Cohen really struggled early on and had a worse second year than first year. He did ok in the long run.

[MarketingBully01]

Yes but people miss the biggest point of all when comparing Cohen and his rebuild. He had a process and won at Kentucky in baseball. He was a known commodity. As fans you had faith that he could turn it around. With Rick Ray, he has never been a head coach at any level. He not only is learning on the job as a head coach but also took on a huge rebuilding job as well. He is also learning on the job from a recruiting perspective. This IMO is why he won't succeed. There are too many things working against him and he is going to make mistakes on top of that because it's natural when you are new at something. That is why I am concerned we went in this direction at this critical juncture of our program.

[engie]

Expecting the NIT next year IMO is an exercise in futility.

So everyone should give up and throw in the towel?

Expecting the NIT next year is 100% reasonable. 3 years is a reasonable time to rebuild in basketball even from as bad as we were. If someone wants to argue that he needs 4 years, I can accept that -- specifically under the example that it took Tom Crean that long to get it going at Indiana -- and MSU AIN'T Indiana. But I'm still looking at year 3 as a reasonable time that I can make up my mind about Ray one way or another.

He either makes it to postseason play and probably gets a contract extension while our fans start to get excited about basketball again -- or he doesn't and he's either gone or very much on the hot seat in year 4. Neither is a reason to "give up". It's simply accepting the fact that we are in year 2 of a rebuild -- and while it sucks, it's not a reasonable time to jump to a conclusion.

[smootness]

Yes but people miss the biggest point of all when comparing Cohen and his rebuild. He had a process and won at Kentucky in baseball. He was a known commodity. As fans you had faith that he could turn it around. With Rick Ray, he has never been a head coach at any level. He not only is learning on the job as a head coach but also took on a huge rebuilding job as well. He is also learning on the job from a recruiting perspective. This IMO is why he won't succeed. There are too many things working against him and he is going to make mistakes on top of that because it's natural when you are new at something. That is why I am concerned we went in this direction at this critical juncture of our program.

I'm not comparing Cohen to Ray. I agree with everything you said, except I'm not going to assume he won't succeed because he has no prior history. Cohen's history at Kentucky didn't stop our fans from reacting the exact same way they are to Ray; in fact, it may have caused them to react even more negatively because they expected him to turn it around with no hiccups precisely because of his success at Kentucky.

The reason I brought up Cohen was to say that current success/failure does not necessarily mean anything about the future when rebuilding. You can take steps back, you can struggle mightily, etc. and still be on the right track. And I used it also to point out that sometimes coaches make decisions that they believe will pay off in the long-term that don't necessarily help immediately or in the short-term. There were decisions Cohen made that he knew would probably mean a few less wins now but that could mean more wins in the future; that's why I don't get why people criticize the fact that only Ready is currently playing out of last year's class; Ndoye is on campus and will play, and it's looking like Daniels will, too.

I'm not saying Ray's lack of success proves he is like Cohen and will turn it around. I'm saying that our experience with Cohen should cause us to understand that sometimes things take time and to be more patient with our basketball program and stop judging the hire on what happens on a game-to-game basis right now. We'll all know in time whether the hire was a good one or not.

But just because Ray hasn't been a HC before doesn't mean he can't turn things around like Cohen did, just like the fact that he's struggling like Cohen doesn't mean he will turn things around.

[engie]

Yes but people miss the biggest point of all when comparing Cohen and his rebuild. He had a process and won at Kentucky in baseball. He was a known commodity. As fans you had faith that he could turn it around.
That didn't make a bit of difference to many of our fans. There were a LARGE percentage in total meltdown constantly over his first two years. Coach and Todd in particular can confirm what I'm saying here. The 3 of us were left in the same position that Coach and I are taking now. Just as large of percentage of fans were in meltdown about Cohen as are currently melting down over Ray(and by-in-large in cases I've cared to evaluate -- it is the same posters that didn't learn their lesson the first time).

Now, I was basically 100% confident that Cohen was going to get it going. I'm less confident with Ray. But it doesn't make jumping to conclusions at the same point in time that Cohen was producing a TOTAL nightmare product on the field ANY SMARTER.


With Rick Ray, he has never been a head coach at any level. He not only is learning on the job as a head coach but also took on a huge rebuilding job as well. He is also learning on the job from a recruiting perspective. This IMO is why he won't succeed.
Ok -- so this part is different than Cohen. Know who it's identical to? Mullen. Your last sentence is ridiculous as a judgement as to whether or not a person can succeed at a position.


There are too many things working against him and he is going to make mistakes on top of that because it's natural when you are new at something. That is why I am concerned we went in this direction at this critical juncture of our program.
How is this a "critical juncture of our program"? It's just another rebuilding year. That's what it ALWAYS WAS GOING TO BE. There isn't jack shit that can really be taken from this year. Next year is when the rubber has to meet the road.

[Political Hack]

it was more people complaining about Cohen I believe. people were even wanting him gone for his poor language.... it was pretty dumb in retrospect, and was dumb then to some of us.

Ray is a little different IMO, and like Engie, I'm less confident that the ship will get "righted." However, he has to be given the time and a fair chance to do it. Three to four years should be enough to measure progress. I don't think it can be as cut and dry as "post season" or "no post season" but other factors combined with that will tell the tale.

[Todd4State]

it was more people complaining about Cohen I believe. people were even wanting him gone for his poor language.... it was pretty dumb in retrospect, and was dumb then to some of us.

Ray is a little different IMO, and like Engie, I'm less confident that the ship will get "righted." However, he has to be given the time and a fair chance to do it. Three to four years should be enough to measure progress. I don't think it can be as cut and dry as "post season" or "no post season" but other factors combined with that will tell the tale.

That's what MSU fans who want to meddle like to do- chastize a coach for "bad language". There could be small kids in the dugout. Cohen isn't the only coach that they have done that to.

One thing that is similar to Cohen is you have a group of MSU fans that aren't happy with the hire because it wasn't how their boy wanted to go out. The Polk croonies didn't think we could do better than Polk and thought we should do whatever he said- even though he was woefully out of touch. The next thing you know, the team struggles because we didn't have enough players to compete in the SEC plus some guys with some lingering injuries from the previous regime's out dated training tactics and then the croonies started in with the bad language. And as time went on, some of our fans started to question Cohen and Butch. Why? Because all those things that the croonies harped about appeared to be "true" even though in reality it had a LOT more to do with Polk than Cohen at that time. We know the rest of the story- Cohen got his players in and they started to win over the next three years and actually made it further than any Ron Polk coached team ever did.

I see some of the same things with Ray kind of.

[Coach34]

Let it play out

[smootness]

The flipside to, 'He only brought in one actual player last year,' is, 'He only has one of his players playing right now', meaning a guy that he had time to recruit and said, 'Yes that's the kid I want'. Borchert, Applewhite, and Davis were his recruits, but they were last-minute guys.

Sure, you can take issue with him over only getting the one kid in if you want, but the reality is that we should have at least 6 of his guys next year...Ready, Ndoye, Daniels, Black, Dunlap, and Houston; we'll have a much better idea of what he is as a coach/evaluator/recruiter at that point.

[tcdog70]

It was hyperbole with the purpose of making a point; the point is that speculation like you made is absurd no matter which side you're arguing and no matter how extreme the hyperbole is. It is done for the purpose of trying to make a point with no evidence to back up your claim.

Would it have been a more legitimate post to say, 'Maybe Dooley would have recruited even worse shooters and focused less on defense, and maybe he would have gone easier on players with drug issues which would have led to the same insubordination we saw under the previous regime?'

No, that post is just as ridiculous as the one you made and my initial response. The bottom line is, that game doesn't get anyone anywhere. There are literally an infinite number of possibilities as to what could have happened if things had gone differently or a different coach was hired.

Sure, things could be better; and things could be worse. We don't know. So what good does it do to play the 'what if' game?

Again, maybe Coach K has always loved Mississippi State and would have come here if we'd offered the job. Or perhaps if Rick Ray hadn't taken the job, we would have had to hire Kodi Augustus because no one else wanted it.

Again, I'm right, nobody knows. Is my point becoming clear? 'Nobody knows, so I'm right that what I said could have happened' is an absurd argument that doesn't get anyone anywhere.

that's just what I said, I was responding to a post saying just what you just posted.

[tcdog70]

I know this has been hashed and rehashed, but that was already gone and there were no signs it was coming back under Stans. I was a huge supporter of his, but it became clear by the end that we had to make a change.

As many have said, we can debate the merits of the Ray hire all day, but it has nothing to do with the decision to get rid of Stans. He did take us to a great place, and the Hump was an awesome atmosphere while he was coach. But that had all been gone by at least 2-3 years by the time he was let go.

Nobody was showing up to watch Sidney, Augustus, Ravern, and others make a mockery of what our basketball program had been. Yes, we're at a lower level of success now, but we knew that was an inevitability; it always is when you're trying to fix problems and ultimately take a step even higher than you have been.

The move was made for the long-term. We'll see if Ray is the guy for the job, but even if he's not, we had to make the move so as to eventually try to find the guy to take us to the next level. It was clear that wasn't going to happen under Stans and we were showing pretty clear signs the level was heading back down.

this year's team has one player that could carry Kodi's or Ravern's Jock. The Chicken, he is a Player. both Ravern and Kodi could shoot a three and make free throws. Kodi was a solid player His Sr Year.

[tcdog70]

just to satisfy my on curiosity. I looked up Ravern and Kodi's stats for their last year.

Kodi-averaged-12.2 pts a game--7.2 rebounds and shot over 80% from the free throw line while playing 31 minutes.

Ravern-ave.-17.6 points a game 4 rebounds and shot 78% from the free throw line. played over 30 minutes a game.

[smootness]

just to satisfy my on curiosity. I looked up Ravern and Kodi's stats for their last year.

Kodi-averaged-12.2 pts a game--7.2 rebounds and shot over 80% from the free throw line while playing 31 minutes.

Ravern-ave.-17.6 points a game 4 rebounds and shot 78% from the free throw line. played over 30 minutes a game.

I'm not sure why you're posting their numbers. I never said they weren't more talented than our current players, or more successful, or that they didn't win more.

I posted their names in response to your post insinuating that the atmosphere only died once Stricklin took over or once Stans was let go. But nobody was showing up to watch those guys, either, even though they did win more and were better players.

The atmosphere had begun to die while Stans was still coach, that was my point. It's part of the reason we made the move, becuase the fanbase was beginning to become embarrassed and apathy was setting in. It didn't go from balls-to-the-wall, packed out arenas of rabid State fans to what it is now overnight.

[SouthMsDawg]

I followed the MSU basketball coach very closely two years ago and Joe Dooley was indeed a name that was mentioned as a candidate as late as the weekend that Kansas was playing in the Final 4 against Ohio State in New Orleans. Supposedly Scott was supposed to meet him there as well as Kenny Payne. Many felt that Payne was a front runner leading up the the shocking news that we had hired Ray the Sunday before the National Championship.

I wasn't thrilled when Ray was hired, and I personally dont think hes done a very good job. Recruiting has took a big dive and we don't have a pure shooter on our team. If we struggle again next year we may just need to start looking for a change. I know its harsh but we can't afford to have 3-4 losing seasons in basketball, and the topper is if we dont get any better the Hump is going to be empty every game except when we host Ole Miss, Kentucky, and Florida.

[engie]

this year's team has one player that could carry Kodi's or Ravern's Jock. The Chicken, he is a Player. both Ravern and Kodi could shoot a three and make free throws. Kodi was a solid player His Sr Year.

Being talented players didn't prevent them from being team cancers that actually made everyone around them worse -- ending up with 4 of 5 straight teams that underperformed relative to talent level and expectations.

[tcdog70]

I'm not sure why you're posting their numbers. I never said they weren't more talented than our current players, or more successful, or that they didn't win more.

I posted their names in response to your post insinuating that the atmosphere only died once Stricklin took over or once Stans was let go. But nobody was showing up to watch those guys, either, even though they did win more and were better players.

The atmosphere had begun to die while Stans was still coach, that was my point. It's part of the reason we made the move, becuase the fanbase was beginning to become embarrassed and apathy was


setting in. It didn't go from balls-to-the-wall, packed out arenas of rabid State fans to what it is now overnight.

http://youtu.be/Y74E_thD1u0

[smootness]

http://youtu.be/Y74E_thD1u0

Really? So we were packing out the Hump regularly with that team? Do you not remember how disappointing those teams were?

[engie]

http://youtu.be/Y74E_thD1u0

You aren't very good at this.

What Smootness said is 100% correct. Is the atmosphere in the Hump currently at an all-time low(since I started following closely at 13 years old after the 95 Sweet 16)? Yes.

It was already WELL on it's way toward dead when Stans was let go -- and had been in decline since the 08-09 season.

Hump average attendance by year:
2008-09 9253
2009-10 8728
2010-11 6878
2011-12 5710
2012-13 8019
2013-14 6721(CURRENT)
http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/m_basketball_RB/Reports/attend/2008.pdf

So, Rick Ray sold more 2309 more tickets per game in his first year than the Recruiter did in his final season? Say it ain't so. Yes -- I do realize that tickets sold /=/ butts in seats. But butts in seats aren't counted officially. Still, it certainly doesn't appear that the basketball program is in the dire financial straits that Stans' lovers like to project.

[smootness]

It's good to see ticket sales are still respectable, at least given where we were.

As you said, that doesn't equal actual attendance or atmosphere, but people will obviously come back in droves if the winning returns; I'm not worried about that.

It's good to see there is still some financial support there.

[tcdog70]

If Y'all think more people are attending games now than Stan's last year, you aren't going to the games. Tickets sold vs people in the seats not even close.

[engie]

If Y'all think more people are attending games now than Stan's last year, you aren't going to the games. Tickets sold vs people in the seats not even close.

Well -- you were the one calling bullshit on the dropoff in fan support of Stansbury's final years. I'd say I proved that VERY conclusively. Ray may not have fixed the problems -- but those problems didn't begin with him either.

[MarketingBully01]

If things don't pick up dramatically, that number will definitely bottom out. Hundreds of people show up for games so that 6k number is really bull shit. I guess most people are just eating the tickets to maintain their ranking in the Bulldog Club. That is my guess for those numbers.

[smootness]

If things don't pick up dramatically, that number will definitely bottom out. Hundreds of people show up for games so that 6k number is really bull shit. I guess most people are just eating the tickets to maintain their ranking in the Bulldog Club. That is my guess for those numbers.

The main thing to obviously shoot for is wins. Win games, and people will show up. Don't, and they won't. This is always the case. I'm not sure why people are discussing attendance as an additional issue with the program right now. Look at our record last year, and you know attendance wasn't good. But again, start winning and people will show up. So it's about winning; focus on that issue, fine, but attendance as some kind of additional thing to criticize Ray for is crazy.

[MarketingBully01]

I agree completely with you. If he wins, it will cure all ills. Winning cures everything. I want us to succeed and I want Ray to win. I am a Bulldog fan and a big basketball fan on top of it. If I wasn't, I wouldn't really give a shit what our team looked like. I hope you guys can understand this. I just want us to win period.

[smootness]

I agree completely with you. If he wins, it will cure all ills. Winning cures everything. I want us to succeed and I want Ray to win. I am a Bulldog fan and a big basketball fan on top of it. If I wasn't, I wouldn't really give a shit what our team looked like. I hope you guys can understand this. I just want us to win period.

I don't question that most State fans just want us to win and will be happy if we do no matter what. I do think there are some, when big decisions are made, that feel like the move was a mistake and want to be proven right, at least for a short time, over hoping the move is a success.

But by and large, most State fans are like you, as I am. I was a big Stans supporter because he won, then I came off the bandwagon at the end when it seemed clear he couldn't get us back to where he had us. I am now a big Ray supporter because our basketball program needs our support; if he proves he can't get it done, I'll want another change.

And I'll be honest, I was a big Croom supporter, too, as I know pretty much everybody was. Everyone wanted him to succeed because he was our coach. I even thought we got rid of him too quickly (in hindsight, I was way wrong on that), but I still was fully behind Mullen as soon as he was hired because he was our coach and I wanted us to succeed.

So I don't question where most fans fall. I know most want Ray to succeed (though I believe there really are some who don't); I just think some are too quick to judge him a failure. So it's not an issue of motive.

[C222]

I really wish we would've gotten Joe Dooley. If you take away those losses to Iona and FIU, he is killing it! His resume at ECU looks even better.

Too bad we didn't get Kenny Payne and his AAU connections either. The team that hired him last year is awesome. Oh wait...

The fact that THOSE two guys were our only other options should tell you all you need to know.

[smootness]

Dooley would have been a legitimate hire. Kenny Payne would have been a complete joke. It's hilarious to me that people who complain about the Ray hire keep mentioning his name.

[tcdog70]

I'm with Smoot and Engie in that I want MSU to win. I have nothing against Rick Ray, I hope he is the next Babe McCarthy. I'm just calling it like I see it. I have been wrong before, and hope I am wrong on His hire. I was elated with the hiring of John Cohen and never once doubted He would be a success. I was on board with the Slytanic for a nano-second, but His bullshit was pretty easy to spot. So far Rick Ray has not done one thing to make Me think He knows what He is doing. There is no data to make us think he can be a head coach in the SEC. Both he and Sly never did anything in D-1 College ball to make Me feel like they could Coach. Now, you can be onboard with RR and talk Him Up, that is Ok with Me. But what pisses me off is the Stansbury bashing to justify RR.

All Stans did was make MSU the 3td winningest program in the SEC for along period of time. Sure hope we can get back to that level. I am glad to have Smoot and Engie rebut Me beause they do it in a civil way. Plus , I know they want what I do and that is for MSU to rise to the top. I don't care if Elmer Fudd is the Coach as long as he gets the job done.

[bully99]

Kenny Payne and Rick Ray. It was a Croomesque hire by Stricklan. We'll get to watch Ray and Dooley go head up on Thursday. Neither is very good this year.

[Coach34]

All Stans did was make MSU the 3td winningest program in the SEC for along period of time.

This is not true. We were 4th behind Tennessee. And Vandy was just about to pass us to send him to 5th

Dawg@Auburn at Sixpack has a table he made showing this

[Coach34]

We'll get to watch Ray and Dooley go head up on Thursday. Neither is very good this year.

FGC has 3 starters returning from last year's Sweet 16 team- it's hardly an even match-up

[MarketingBully01]

If you want to be defensive on that regard, FAMU has played teams tough as well. I expect this to be a close game tonight based on how FAMU has played.

[maroonmania]

If Y'all think more people are attending games now than Stan's last year, you aren't going to the games. Tickets sold vs people in the seats not even close.

And this makes sense. I'm sure there are a number of folks who are buying tickets to hold onto to their rights to keep the tickets in hope that some day we will be respectable again but have no interest in watching the product we currently have.

[Dawg61]

Not sure why everyone likes to bash Kenny Payne. Every time I watch UK the guy coaching and in the face of all those 5* players the most besides Cal is KP. He will bring an endless amount of connections to players, AAU, WWW and on and on. I would take Kenny Payne in a heartbeat. Cal will help him succeed too.

[MarketingBully01]

I think with Payne you would have taken a huge gamble BUT he would have more talent and had gotten more talent then what Ray has gotten no doubt about it. He would have had a lot of buzz and had been coming off a national championship team to coach us in 2012-2013. He would have coached Anthony Davis and other UK big men. Ware definitely would look a lot better then he does. We really need to fire Geroge Brooks and hire a great big man assistant. Kirby was awesome at that. I think in order for Ray to succeed he needs to fire his assistants and hire some great recruiters that can teach shooting and big men. If the Ray thing is going to work, he needs to clean house and get him some top notch assistants. Richard Williams didn't win until he added Stansbury. Otherwise, he wouldn't have been very successful at all.

[smootness]

What are Payne's qualifications outside of people just assuming recruiting would be a bonanza so long as Kenny Payne was our coach?

First, we have no clue what he would do in recruiting. Yes, I've heard all about his connections, but the primary coach with connections is Calipari; he was already shredding it in recruiting before he brought Kenny Payne on staff. I'm sure Payne has developed more connections through that, but it's not as easy as 'Hire a WWW guy and get everybody'. It helps on some guys, but it would still be tough to draw big-time talent to Starkville.

Second, we have no idea how well he would coach. Calipari's teams have been questionable at times in the past with regard to how well they're coached.

I'm not saying that I know for a fact that he would be terrible. I'm saying that the only reason anybody wanted him was because of his recruiting connections. I want more than that in a HC.

[601Dawg]

Rick Ray's biggest fault is going to be his lack of recruiting. (Ironic because its what Stans was known for)

X's and O's only go so far if you don't have the Jimmys and Joes (especially those who cant make 3 pointers, free throws or rebound)

[Dawg61]

It's not whose better between Cal vs Payne that matters it's Payne vs Ray that does. Payne was/is the guy all of our former players/NBA players lobbied for supposedly. He recruits gold every year. He might not get many 5* here but you gotta assume he'd get 4*. Right now we are lucky to get rated players at all and it's quite obvious nobody on this staff can develop shooting. Kenny Payne vs Rick Ray looks like Justin Tucker vs Devin Bell right now.

[tcdog70]

This is not true. We were 4th behind Tennessee. And Vandy was just about to pass us to send him to 5th

Dawg@Auburn at Sixpack has a table he made showing this

Excuse Me all-knowing 34--My post said for a long period of time, not when he was fired.

[C222]

It's not whose better between Cal vs Payne that matters it's Payne vs Ray that does. Payne was/is the guy all of our former players/NBA players lobbied for supposedly. He recruits gold every year. He might not get many 5* here but you gotta assume he'd get 4*. Right now we are lucky to get rated players at all and it's quite obvious nobody on this staff can develop shooting. Kenny Payne vs Rick Ray looks like Justin Tucker vs Devin Bell right now.

Rula and Damp were pushing for Payne.

He recruits "gold" because of where he coaches. Hiring Kenny Payne would've been an absolute joke.

[Dawg61]

Again why do you say this? What evidence at all do you have to say he's an absolute joke? There's evidence to the contrary but zero to your opinion.

[notsofarawaydawg]

I'm back. No I wasn't banned.
Just listened to the podcast that Matt Stevens does with the Ronnie Musgrove character and they were talking about the upcoming game against FGC on Thursday and their coach, Joe Dooley. Stevens said Dooley desperately wanted the coaching job at State when Ray was hired but Stricklan wouldn't return his calls. Dooley was an assistant at Kansas at the time.
Looked at his bio. Former head Coach at East Carolina. In the past few years was named the top assistant in the country, named one of the best recruiters in college basketball and was begging to come to Starkville.

If what Stevens says is true then how in the hell did we end up with Rick Ray. Some of crap Stricklan does just boggles the mind.

Top assistant, top recruiter, wants to come to Starkville and Stricklan hires a nobody from a nobody team. Ray better win the damn game Thursday.

You all slam Stevens on one thing and going to turn around and take his word as the gospel truth? He's an idiot and likes to try and stir things up. He works for a newspaper editor and owner that hates State. Your hate for Ray is just unbelievable. Is it because he is black? Sure seems to be one of the primary reasons most of you can't support the man. What a shame.

[tcdog70]

This is not true. We were 4th behind Tennessee. And Vandy was just about to pass us to send him to 5th

Dawg@Auburn at Sixpack has a table he made showing this

I went over and looked for the table, couldn't find it. I did find where he stated such, just no table. But I did go to Hail State and found this . from 1998-2010.


State Success During Rick Stansbury Era
- Entering his 13th season at the helm, Rick Stansbury is MSU's all-time winningest coach with 255 victories.
- The Bulldogs have averaged 21 wins per season and have participated in post-season tournament play 10 times (6 NCAA & 4 NIT).
- Mississippi State made five-consecutive postseason tournament appearances (2001-05) for the first time in school history, including a streak of four-straight NCAA Tournament berths from 2002-05.
- The Bulldogs have won 20-plus games nine times under Stansbury's guidance.
- Since 1998-99, MSU is the winningest program in the SEC Western Division and is third overall behind Kentucky and Florida.
- In the last eight years, only one team in the SEC has won five divisional titles. Mississippi State.
- In the last 12 years, MSU has produced a collective total of 35 SEC Academic Honor Roll recipients.

not saying DawgatAuburn is wrong, that could be true, just couldn't find it.

Coaching Records

[MarketingBully01]

This is absolutely absurd. I would have been perfectly happy with Kirby, Pierre, or Payne and all three are black. This has more to do with who the heck is this guy and his credentials underwhelmed to the point where people were like who? That takes some doing but Stricklin did it. He hired an absolute no name assistant from a mediocre program who will probably fire their coach (Clemson) in the next couple of years.

[bully99]

Ray was a desperation hire. After Stains was fired, Stricklan was getting beat up by State fans for taking so long to hire a coach and Ray wasn't on anybody's long or short list. It was one of the strangest hires ever. Hell in 1986 Dick Williams was only hired after Roy Williams and other respected coaches turned it down. Stricklan hires a nobody from a nobody school. Empty suit.

[Coach34]

I went over and looked for the table, couldn't find it. I did find where he stated such, just no table. But I did go to Hail State and found this . from 1998-2010.


State Success During Rick Stansbury Era
- Entering his 13th season at the helm, Rick Stansbury is MSU's all-time winningest coach with 255 victories.
- Since 1998-99, MSU is the winningest program in the SEC Western Division and is third overall behind Kentucky and Florida.
not saying DawgatAuburn is wrong, that could be true, just couldn't find it.


1. Stansbury coached 14 years

2. Tennessee had 128 SEC wins, State had 122 in the Stands Era

3. Cant compare overall records because Stands almost always had a SOS that was 8th or lower in the SEC. I believe the info we found had him at 9th in the SEC in SOS for his entire tenure

4. He was 4th in SEC wins and that is good- but he also had the benefit of coaching in the West- and not having to play the Big 3 of the SEC twice each year. He also got the advantage of playing a down UPig program unlike Williams who was facing them when they were playing for NCAA titles

5. Gottfried went to 5 NCAA's in 11 years at Bama and went farther in the NCAA Tourney. Gottfried also got another job after Bama

6. Brady couldnt be as consistent as Stands- but accomplished more in postseason

[601Dawg]

Can't wait to see your spin on the Rick Ray era. We just got out rebounded by FAMU by 8 including 11 more offensive rebounds than us.

We are no better than we were last year, our record may be 7-2 but 4 of those wins are against SWAC level opponents one of whom we almost lost to in JSU. The only 2 teams with a pulse beat us.

I homestly don't see Ray turning it around unless he gets his hands dirty in recruiting, if not he will be looking for a new job in 2 years.

[Coach34]

Can't wait to see your spin on the Rick Ray era. We just got out rebounded by FAMU by 8 including 11 more offensive rebounds than us.
.

We have one post player on the entire team and you are surprised by this? Borchert is a 2-guard in a PF body

I look for us to be NIT-bound next year when these guys gets to be Jr's, Daniels will be available, Fallou backing up Ware, etc. We will actually have a team for the first time in the RR Era. Then start judging.

[smootness]

We have one post player on the entire team and you are surprised by this? Borchert is a 2-guard in a PF body

I look for us to be NIT-bound next year when these guys gets to be Jr's, Daniels will be available, Fallou backing up Ware, etc. We will actually have a team for the first time in the RR Era. Then start judging.

Yup. Our roster is still:

C - Gavin Ware; ??
PF - Roquez Johnson (out right now); Colin Borchert
SF - Craig Sword; Colin Borchert; Andre Applewhite
SG - Fred Thomas; Tyson Cunningham
PG - IJ Ready; Trivante Bloodman; Jacoby Davis (I believe he's hurt)

But next year it becomes much more of a legitimate major conference roster, at least in terms of talent/depth:

C - Gavin Ware; Fallou Ndoye
F - Travis Daniels; Roquez Johnson; Oliver Black
F - Craig Sword; Andre Applewhite; Demetrius Houston
SG - Fred Thomas; Maurice Dunlap
PG - IJ Ready; Jacoby Davis; Trivante Bloodman (all with experience)

That is a roster you can do some things with.