How far is baseball from profitability?

[cheewgumm]

Listening to podcasts guys talking about it this morning, makes me wonder.

I have no idea.

Does anyone know?

[StarkVegasSteve]

Listening to podcasts guys talking about it this morning, makes me wonder.

I have no idea.

Does anyone know?

When the seat licenses come up for renewal.

[Santiago]

When the seat licenses come up for renewal.

Based on Bulldog Club points?
Man this timing is good for a new coach to get it going the next two years, and our tickets will jump in demand

[cheewgumm]

One of the podcasts guys said we need to charge more.

Seems obvious

I wish we could expand and push for more people on the stands. Hopefully they do that.

- Raise prices
- Add people

I want 20k in there.!!!

[Quaoarsking]

Depends how you set up the accounting

[Tripp McNeely]

Depends how you set up the accounting

Exactly...depends on what depreciation method that were using for the stadium

[Jarius]

Listening to podcasts guys talking about it this morning, makes me wonder.

I have no idea.

Does anyone know?

I believe Selmon is going to raise the prices on the lounge and chairbacks enough to when the stadium is paid off in a few years it will be profitable. The tickets being as cheap as they are (particularly in the LFL) when there is a waiting list 21 miles long and the sport isn't profitable is borderline criminal. It would already be close to breaking even if they charged market value for the seats.

[StarkVegasSteve]

Based on Bulldog Club points?
Man this timing is good for a new coach to get it going the next two years, and our tickets will jump in demand

The people who currently have the seats will have right of first refusal on their seats. Some will renew and some won't. The seats that aren't renewed will be up for sale. My guess is that the higher your priority is then the higher you are on a list.

[Cooterpoot]

Need more chairbacks to sell (short term loss) licensing is up in '28 I think and that price will skyrocket (the cost of claiming to be elite), the rigs will also go up again soon. Got to payoff the stadium as well, not sure if that time frame but someone said 2030.

[Todd4State]

One of the podcasts guys said we need to charge more.

Seems obvious

I wish we could expand and push for more people on the stands. Hopefully they do that.

- Raise prices
- Add people

I want 20k in there.!!!

Yeah. Charging more is inevitable. Selmon isn't oblivious to that.

[Cooterpoot]

Don't forget the Lemonis Cafe they're planning to add

[Pinto]

What do you think the lounges will go for? Heard some are already being subleased for 5K on SEC weekends.

[Todd4State]

Don't forget the Lemonis Cafe they're planning to add

That's going to be years down the road. I would guess we aren't likely to add much until the stadium is paid off completely. A new loft might be the exception because of the potential profit if I had to guess.

[CaptainObvious]

One of the podcasts guys said we need to charge more.

Seems obvious

I wish we could expand and push for more people on the stands. Hopefully they do that.

- Raise prices
- Add people

I want 20k in there.!!!

I read somewhere that Arkansas drew a NCAA record crowd of over 17000. That can't be right. No way they can get 17000+ in Baum. And as far as non-campus Stadiums, LSU holds that record in the Superdome.

[cheewgumm]

I think we could get to 15k per weekend game and 20k on big days.

We should be pushing for that, imo.

[TaleofTwoDogs]

I love it when people who don't have a clue as to the profitability of an organization always suggest that prices be raised. What happen to the thought that college athletics was already out of control with high pricing to the fans? Cue the next round of bitchin' on ED about cost to attend games at State.

[StarkVegasSteve]

I think we could get to 15k per weekend game and 20k on big days.

We should be pushing for that, imo.

Why? Like what good comes out of that? I've never gotten this we need to push for crowds. We don't, and haven't for 40+ years, had to beg people to show up. Why should we be pushing for more people when it's already slam packed and not all that enjoyable of an experience at 14K. I mean I've been in the stadium 11 of our 14 times to top 14K and none of them were an enjoyable experience from a pure spectating perspective. It's crowded and people are just standing in the middle of the concourses. And don't even try to go out to the outfield. It's like leading a calvary charge to get through to your rig.

I can promise you that no one is ever going to break our oh so precious attendance records that only our fan base cares about.

[Jarius]

I love it when people who don't have a clue as to the profitability of an organization always suggest that prices be raised. What happen to the thought that college athletics was already out of control with high pricing to the fans? Cue the next round of bitchin' on ED about cost to attend games at State.


The Clarion Ledger releases a yearly article on which sports make and which sports lose money at the in state universities. Baseball is currently losing about 2 million a year. I'm sorry that your underpriced tickets that people are in line to take if you drop them are about to go up so the university can ensure the main sports are not having to financially carry baseball, but it's not about you.

[confucius say]

The seat fee for a chairback is currently $1800 for ten years. So $180 a year, and then you buy the season ticket for $400.
That comes back on the market after the 2028 season, and I suspect that seat fee will at least double. There are thousands on the waiting list who would pay it if people want to give up their seats.

[StarkVegasSteve]

The Clarion Ledger releases a yearly article on which sports make and which sports lose money at the in state universities. Baseball is currently losing about 2 million a year. I'm sorry that your underpriced tickets that people are in line to take if you drop them are about to go up so the university can ensure the main sports are not having to financially carry baseball, but it's not about you.

A lot of baseball losing money is due to the loan on the stadium. It has nothing to do with ticket prices.

[StarkVegasSteve]

The seat fee for a chairback is currently $1800 for ten years. So $180 a year, and then you buy the season ticket for $400.
That comes back on the market after the 2028 season, and I suspect that seat fee will at least double. There are thousands on the waiting list who would pay it if people want to give up their seats.

I would imagine the seat fee will be about what they pay for football, which would mean it would 3x-5x in most cases. That will run a few people off, but by and large people will still pay for their tickets.

Also to clarify, COVID added another year onto those licenses if you chose to roll it over. So a few may come up in 2028, but most will run through the 2029 season.

[cheewgumm]

I would not do 10 yr leases again.

I understand it protects against things like COVID, but odds of something like that again are low.

And we are a baseball rabid fanbase and with a new coach are probably going to get better.

As long as economy is ok we will have pricing power.

[confucius say]

I would imagine the seat fee will be about what they pay for football, which would mean it would 3x-5x in most cases. That will run a few people off, but by and large people will still pay for their tickets.

Also to clarify, COVID added another year onto those licenses if you chose to roll it over. So a few may come up in 2028, but most will run through the 2029 season.

Good to know on the rollover. I think that's what I chose because I don't remember getting money back in 2020.

[Cowbell]

Baseball is already profitable. It just doesn't currently cash flow. It is amazing to me how many people don't understand this, including the clarion liar.

If I decide to pay off a physical asset in my business quicker, that doesn't make me less profitable. It just reduces cash flow and exchanges cash for equity of physical assets.

[StarkVegasSteve]

Good to know on the rollover. I think that's what I chose because I don't remember getting money back in 2020.

That's what we chose for ours. I won't lie, it's been a bit depressing the last 4 years because a big perk of those season tickets is knowing you have tickets for Regionals and Super Regionals.

[War Machine Dawg]

I love it when people who don't have a clue as to the profitability of an organization always suggest that prices be raised. What happen to the thought that college athletics was already out of control with high pricing to the fans? Cue the next round of bitchin' on ED about cost to attend games at State.

Yep. People are already squeezed financially. But somehow they're supposed to reach into their pockets and pay more for seat licenses, more for tickets, more for NIL, and more for concessions. And players now get to rob the school every year and leave if they think they aren't making enough.

College is going to end up like almost all the pro leagues the way it's going. Only corporations can afford to pay the prices. The atmospheres will become sanitized and soulless.

But the problem is people are cheap and just don't want to pay more.***

[DawgFromOxford]

Yep. People are already squeezed financially. But somehow they're supposed to reach into their pockets and pay more for seat licenses, more for tickets, more for NIL, and more for concessions. And players now get to rob the school every year and leave if they think they aren't making enough.

College is going to end up like almost all the pro leagues the way it's going. Only corporations can afford to pay the prices. The atmospheres will become sanitized and soulless.

But the problem is people are cheap and just don't want to pay more.***

It's nothing personal, just classic supply and demand. Demand outweighs supply, so you either increase prices or increase supply. (hint, it aint going to be supply)

[cheewgumm]

Baseball is already profitable. It just doesn't currently cash flow. It is amazing to me how many people don't understand this, including the clarion liar.

If I decide to pay off a physical asset in my business quicker, that doesn't make me less profitable. It just reduces cash flow and exchanges cash for equity of physical assets.

I should have clarified if i was looking for EBIT or EBTDA, ...but just talking generally.

[Cowbell]

I should have clarified if i was looking for EBIT or EBTDA, ...but just talking generally.

Yeah - it wasn't pointed at you - I think this is dang good discussion. I just hate it when stupid articles are written without context

[cheewgumm]

Yeah - it wasn't pointed at you - I think this is dang good discussion. I just hate it when stupid articles are written without context

👍🏼. My bad

[Todd4State]

That's what we chose for ours. I won't lie, it's been a bit depressing the last 4 years because a big perk of those season tickets is knowing you have tickets for Regionals and Super Regionals.

I hope the new coach rebuilds quickly. For your sake and mine!

[Jarius]

A lot of baseball losing money is due to the loan on the stadium. It has nothing to do with ticket prices.


The ticket prices are too low for the demand. Even if there was no loan, we would be right at the break even point, and that makes no sense with how much demand we have for the sport.

[Jarius]

Yep. People are already squeezed financially. But somehow they're supposed to reach into their pockets and pay more for seat licenses, more for tickets, more for NIL, and more for concessions. And players now get to rob the school every year and leave if they think they aren't making enough.

College is going to end up like almost all the pro leagues the way it's going. Only corporations can afford to pay the prices. The atmospheres will become sanitized and soulless.

But the problem is people are cheap and just don't want to pay more.***


We have a 30 year waiting list for LFL spots and a huge waiting list for chairbacks as well. People are not too financially strapped to pay the prices and won't be if we raise them. We have the lowest budget in the conference. The people in charge should be taking financial advantage of a sport that our fans are crazy about. Our bus driver should not be able to afford a LFL spot. It's premium seating.

[SPMT]

Baseball is already profitable. It just doesn't currently cash flow. It is amazing to me how many people don't understand this, including the clarion liar.

If I decide to pay off a physical asset in my business quicker, that doesn't make me less profitable. It just reduces cash flow and exchanges cash for equity of physical assets.

Amen. I mentioned a high interest expense most likely being a huge drag on ?profitability?.

Most people don?t understand it because they don?t work in the accounting or finance of business and/or have no interest in that. Most people big deal, they just don?t need to blow it out of proportion without full understanding.

[Coach34]

Amen. I mentioned a high interest expense most likely being a huge drag on ?profitability?.

Most people don?t understand it because they don?t work in the accounting or finance of business and/or have no interest in that. Most people big deal, they just don?t need to blow it out of proportion without full understanding.

People completely understand. And while it does become an asset- it is a baseball expense until it is paid off. That takes away from baseball profit. Even after being paid off- there will be upkeep to it. There will be pressure to build the 2nd loft. Add chairbacks. So baseball will continue to pay these expenses that keep it from being profitable the way it should be for us and has been in the past.

I agree seating is too cheap as are the tailgate spots. Those spots shoud be $1K per home weekend

[basedog]

People completely understand. And while it does become an asset- it is a baseball expense until it is paid off. That takes away from baseball profit. Even after being paid off- there will be upkeep to it. There will be pressure to build the 2nd loft. Add chairbacks. So baseball will continue to pay these expenses that keep it from being profitable the way it should be for us and has been in the past.

I agree seating is too cheap as are the tailgate spots. Those spots shoud be $1K per home weekend

I was Told yesterday they have the 2nd loft sold But there a few other projects first. May bea few years but the demand has been extremely high.
We built the stadium when interest was sky high, now with all the talk was because the last say 4 years has been poor for MSU. Hopefully with new HC next year we will reach another high point for our baseball program.

[TheLostDawg]

When the seat licenses come up for renewal.

This. When is that anyway

[TheLostDawg]

Based on Bulldog Club points?
Man this timing is good for a new coach to get it going the next two years, and our tickets will jump in demand

They already are. You can't get but ga unless you pay $300 a seat per sec game so no one is giving them up

[TheLostDawg]

Why? Like what good comes out of that? I've never gotten this we need to push for crowds. We don't, and haven't for 40+ years, had to beg people to show up. Why should we be pushing for more people when it's already slam packed and not all that enjoyable of an experience at 14K. I mean I've been in the stadium 11 of our 14 times to top 14K and none of them were an enjoyable experience from a pure spectating perspective. It's crowded and people are just standing in the middle of the concourses. And don't even try to go out to the outfield. It's like leading a calvary charge to get through to your rig.

I can promise you that no one is ever going to break our oh so precious attendance records that only our fan base cares about.

Which is why we need more seats

[TheLostDawg]

The Clarion Ledger releases a yearly article on which sports make and which sports lose money at the in state universities. Baseball is currently losing about 2 million a year. I'm sorry that your underpriced tickets that people are in line to take if you drop them are about to go up so the university can ensure the main sports are not having to financially carry baseball, but it's not about you.

This

[TheLostDawg]

A lot of baseball losing money is due to the loan on the stadium. It has nothing to do with ticket prices.

If a business takes out a loan and has an underpriced product, wouldn't you think they'd raise the price to help offset their loss? I don't understand your reasoning. If they didn't redo the interest rate in 2020 then that's pretty dumb, but I wouldn't be shocked

[TheLostDawg]

Yep. People are already squeezed financially. But somehow they're supposed to reach into their pockets and pay more for seat licenses, more for tickets, more for NIL, and more for concessions. And players now get to rob the school every year and leave if they think they aren't making enough.

College is going to end up like almost all the pro leagues the way it's going. Only corporations can afford to pay the prices. The atmospheres will become sanitized and soulless.

But the problem is people are cheap and just don't want to pay more.***

Corporations already own many of the seats. I get what you're saying but everyone is doing it and when you can go up on price because you have the demand and are already behind everyone else on cost and need the additional revenue to compete, you don it

[Jarius]

If a business takes out a loan and has an underpriced product, wouldn't you think they'd raise the price to help offset their loss? I don't understand your reasoning. If they didn't redo the interest rate in 2020 then that's pretty dumb, but I wouldn't be shocked

Exactly. They are trying to talk to us the same way our admin does about logos and marketing, as if we are too stupid to put together the concept you just described. You don't need a degree in accounting to figure what you just broke down out. It's common sense. We are currently operating at a deficit in baseball and have a 30 year waiting list for tickets. That's really dumb business. Not to mention all of the concessions that the school loses on a yearly basis by allowing them to bring in coolers of beer and food that they don't have to purchase from the university. That should all be added in to the price as well. Obviously don't want to lose the grills and the smoke and all that comes with that. I do think they should stop allowing beer in and make everyone buy from the school. That's a crap ton of money they are losing every year.

[Pancho]

Oh how the entitled ones would whine........... makes perfect sense though

[EdwardDrayton]

Yeah. Show me the unconsolidated financials including the sub ledgers. Entities can create any narrative they want with accrual accounting. And it doesn't take a genius to understand why they want folks to think the sport is losing money. I don't believe it. Show me.

[confucius say]

If baseball is losing money, it's a choice.
They could charge 50k per season for an outfield spot and see them all, and they could triple the chairback cost and season ticket price.

That would suck for me personally because my chairbacks would go up, but they could.

[Coach34]

Yeah. Show me the unconsolidated financials including the sub ledgers. Entities can create any narrative they want with accrual accounting. And it doesn't take a genius to understand why they want folks to think the sport is losing money. I don't believe it. Show me.

only because we are having to pay off projects. Regular baseball expenses are def covered by the revenue we generate. I dont get whats hard about this.

But my point is that we are probably going to have constant projects for the next decade or so. We have the gold standard in college baseball for a stadium yet there is already a big uproar for more seating, another loft, and improved student area.

[Todd4State]

We have a 30 year waiting list for LFL spots and a huge waiting list for chairbacks as well. People are not too financially strapped to pay the prices and won't be if we raise them. We have the lowest budget in the conference. The people in charge should be taking financial advantage of a sport that our fans are crazy about. Our bus driver should not be able to afford a LFL spot. It's premium seating.

I think our bus driver has more money than you realize. I don't like the guy either but he has made some very significant donations to the baseball program financially that a lot of people don't know about. Which is shocking considering how much he runs his mouth and how arrogant he is but it's true.

Just saying that if you want MSU to price the bus driver out it's probably not going to happen and not for the reasons you might think.

[Jarius]

I think our bus driver has more money than you realize. I don't like the guy either but he has made some very significant donations to the baseball program financially that a lot of people don't know about. Which is shocking considering how much he runs his mouth and how arrogant he is but it's true.

Just saying that if you want MSU to price the bus driver out it's probably not going to happen and not for the reasons you might think.


Maybe so, but the point remains. I don't really care who is out there as long as they are paying market value for the seats. Baseball being profitable helps every other sport on campus. The school owes it to football in particular to make as much money as they can off of baseball, particularly with revenue sharing coming up. Not to mention the more money baseball brings in the higher their own budget can go, which will get us better baseball players and better results so long as we have a competent baseball coach.

[Santiago]

Something to be said also for a HC the fanbase likes. Winning , yes, but then just that extra it factor to go along with it that brings everyone up another level.
That helps in bringing in NIL money, selling seats, etc.
I am saying the obvious here, but for all the reason(s), Lemonis just was not that guy in the past 4 years.

[cheewgumm]

Maybe so, but the point remains. I don't really care who is out there as long as they are paying market value for the seats. Baseball being profitable helps every other sport on campus. The school owes it to football in particular to make as much money as they can off of baseball, particularly with revenue sharing coming up. Not to mention the more money baseball brings in the higher their own budget can go, which will get us better baseball players and better results so long as we have a competent baseball coach.

This!!

More profit = more $ for players = more profit

Grow and be profitable and that sky is the limit.

[DEDawg]

Baseball is already profitable. It just doesn't currently cash flow. It is amazing to me how many people don't understand this, including the clarion liar.

If I decide to pay off a physical asset in my business quicker, that doesn't make me less profitable. It just reduces cash flow and exchanges cash for equity of physical assets.

Fair but what asset are we paying off? The stadium? Is it a variable loan?

[Todd4State]

Fair but what asset are we paying off? The stadium? Is it a variable loan?

To sum it up it's the stadium and the normal cost of baseball operations. Which is a lot of stuff.