msu basketball

[campmore]

I am very concerned about our basketball program. Granted we are winning games against low level competition. Our non conference schedule is the weakest we have had in years. To barely beat teams like SE Louisiana, Loyola and Jackson State is embarrassing. In the past we have sold out all of our season tickets. Now we are selling minipacks and 5 dollar tickets. We have to give away free pizza to get students to come. Our attendance has fallen dramatically. The only way for this situation to improve is recruiting. Last year we signed four players and only one is eligible to play. This is inexcusable. When Rick Ray was hired it was stated that he is a great recruiter. People have stated that you have to develop relationships for years. If someone can recruit and has contacts he can certainly do far better than this. A perfect example is Frank Martin at South Caroling. In his second year he has had a great recruiting year. This year we signed three players early and only one had a BCS offer. The only way to get better is to sign players that other people want. Houston from Montgomery was the only one of the 3 who was highly recruited. This summer Maurice Dunlap played in the all star game and shot 1 for 13. People have talked about Malik Newman from Callaway. This is a kid we should sign. He is from Mississippi and his dad was a great player at MSU. In the past the expectation was we would sign him. Now the expection is we have a chance. We could not even get involved with Booker from Pascougoula as we said he was from Michigan yet he signs with Kentucky. I have been a season ticket holder for 26 years and heavily involved in high school basketball for years and hate what has happened to our program..

[preachermatt83]

nice first post...

[Jacksondevildog]

The level of confidence in our fan base with our hoops program is gone. I don't feel that we have a shot at top prospects right now. I used to be cocky expecting us to sign 4* players. That is no longer the case. If the administration doesn't give a shit, why should a majority of the fans? I'm afraid we are starting to become what Ole miss has been in hoops. I still like rick ray and I support him. He just needs to show me proof that he can recruit.

[ShotgunDawg]

Yeah, I think Ray is a good coach, but we have little to no talent right now and we don't seem to be attracting any talent either. I'm not sure where the turning point is here unless Ray starts to suddenly recruit better.

It pretty sad to see what have become of this program with the damage being done by Stansbury. Ray is just trying to clean it up right now.

I remember going to the Hump and seeing sold out student sections and packed houses. Now, it's like going to a Women's game.

It is amazing how many similarities our basketball program currently has to the Croom era in football, and the race of the coach has nothing to do with it.

Long time coach resigns,no one wants the job, program is torn down, no longer any interest, can't recruit any good players, etc...

Why does MSU have to do this type of stuff to our programs? What is it about our University that causes these massive droughts?

[nemsdawg]

The difference in Martin at USCE is he had already established himself at KSU. As far as Booker he was going to sign with an elite program. That program just happened to be UK. I have no idea if we have a shot at Newman. The thing Ray has to do is win the games he is supposed to, win some he is not supposed to, and develop players. I also think he is proving himself to recruits by the progression of Sword and maybe Ware. Basketball however comes down to recruiting. He really needs to land a top notch juco shooter. Would you be ok with a Henderson type player that has a lot of talent with some issues? That's where the rubber will meet the road with Ray. Basically this next recruiting cycle is VITAL for Ray to sign a few needs which is a post player and a shooter. Sword, as of now, is the piece he has to build around. Wilson's success in football could give him some confidence on the court that might possibly give us a boost. Who knows but I hope things turn up. Quickly. (BTW I think we have struck gold with Schaefer)

[Jacksondevildog]

Dunlap is supposed to be the best shooter that we signed for next year and there were rumors that we nearly dropped him. That's concerning.

[Coach34]

I am very concerned about our basketball program. Granted we are winning games against low level competition. Our non conference schedule is the weakest we have had in years. To barely beat teams like SE Louisiana, Loyola and Jackson State is embarrassing. In the past we have sold out all of our season tickets. Now we are selling minipacks and 5 dollar tickets. We have to give away free pizza to get students to come. Our attendance has fallen dramatically. The only way for this situation to improve is recruiting. Last year we signed four players and only one is eligible to play. This is inexcusable. When Rick Ray was hired it was stated that he is a great recruiter. People have stated that you have to develop relationships for years. If someone can recruit and has contacts he can certainly do far better than this. A perfect example is Frank Martin at South Caroling. In his second year he has had a great recruiting year. This year we signed three players early and only one had a BCS offer. The only way to get better is to sign players that other people want. Houston from Montgomery was the only one of the 3 who was highly recruited. This summer Maurice Dunlap played in the all star game and shot 1 for 13. People have talked about Malik Newman from Callaway. This is a kid we should sign. He is from Mississippi and his dad was a great player at MSU. In the past the expectation was we would sign him. Now the expection is we have a chance. We could not even get involved with Booker from Pascougoula as we said he was from Michigan yet he signs with Kentucky. I have been a season ticket holder for 26 years and heavily involved in high school basketball for years and hate what has happened to our program..

a few things:

1. We are all concerned about basketball right now
2. We all agree that recruiting is the way to improve. The coaching part looks fine- we just need some more talent.
3. It's natural for attendance to fall off when you suck. It started years ago though and is now bottoming out. Dont act like we had packed houses watching Renardo Sidney walk up and down the court.
4. I dont remember anybody saying RR was a great recruiter when he was hired. The "network" Stands had going from the end of the Richard Williams tenure and throughout his is no longer buying players for us. Dont be mad that we dont recruit like we did when we dont use the same methods of "heppin" that we used to.
5. Frank Martin is a national name
6. I agree with you on Dunlap
7. Getting rid of Stands has improved our chances with Newman- but he is one of the top 3 recruits in the country- he isnt coming here. He is going to go to a major program.
8. Booker is the same way- he wanted a prime program

[HoopsDawg]

Our defensive effort wasn't too hot last night either. That's definitely concerning. We may only win 3 or 4 SEC games this year.

[Coach34]

We may only win 3 or 4 SEC games this year.

Well, coming in to last year- our fans said we wouldnt win any. See- we're improving

[HoopsDawg]

Well, coming in to last year- our fans said we wouldnt win any. See- we're improving

Ha, yeah right. Only because AU is in the conference. I would set our over under at 3 SEC wins and I would take the under. This recent signing class is the most concerning of all. Oliver Black is at the IMG academy. I don't even know if he will be eligible. Ray needs to sign another player from somewhere or actively recruit a transfer.

[Coach34]

Ray needs to process a couple and pull in some recruits that can play SEC basketball. And he needs to get people sponsoring AAU basketball the way we used to. We need to get back to doing all we can to make sure AAU basketball continues to thrive

[BogeyGolfer]

I watched us play last night and it was like watching high school basketball. It will take a minimum of another 2-3 years just to compete. It was embarrassing...we did not hustle, block our or play defense and probably should have lost.

[Dawg61]

Ray's answer on how to improve shooting is to stop shooting. Disconcerting much?

[MarketingBully01]

Yep, and Ray is a good coach even though we look uncoached.

[TheDogFather]

I think you meant to say

I sure am glad we are not still stuck with that Stansbury guy.

[CadaverDawg]

Ray is looking Croomesque this year. I had hope after the fight we showed last year...but that hope is dwindling very fast. Last year I thought Ray showed us that if his kids buy in, we may be able to win without bringing in huge talent. But this year they are showing that if you don't bring max effort AND don't have talent...you suck ass.

It's time for the heppin to begin, or start searching for a coach that our boosters WILL hep. Because we are wasting time if the boosters aren't going to do the same for Ray. Might as well cut bait and bring in who the boosters want. We are in a lose lose situation with Ray and our booster combo. Not Ray's fault...but it's the cards he's dealt. Not very fair actually

[MarketingBully01]

Yep, telling us not to shoot is genius coaching.

[MarketingBully01]

You're right Cadevar. It is looking very Croomesque but what can we do? I guess just watch it burn to the ground...

[Squidawg11]

I am a little concerned about the basketball program, but let's give the guy a little time before we call for his head. I know Cohen had a few rough years before he got the program back on track. When you nuke a program it takes a few years to get back on track.

[DownwardDawg]

I don't know enough about the game to make an in depth post, but I've watched us play for years. What I saw on tv the other night looked terrible. I'm hoping RR turns it around.

[MarketingBully01]

I just love it when people use analogies like Coach Cohen or Tom Crean. Guys listen, those guys had done the head coaching thing before and built programs elsewhere. Coach Ray hasn't done anything and has never been a head coach before. He is such an unknown nobody knows what he will do. We just don't know. If there is any comparison, he is more like Coach Croom. That is a more real comparison.

[Raytoraid83]

It's time for the heppin to begin, or start searching for a coach that our boosters WILL hep. Because we are wasting time if the boosters aren't going to do the same for Ray.

I can tell you with 100% certainty there is ZERO cheating going on under Ray. Although it doesn't take a genius to be able to tell you that, just gotta look at his first couple of classes.

[Squidawg11]

I just love it when people use analogies like Coach Cohen or Tom Crean. Guys listen, those guys had done the head coaching thing before and built programs elsewhere. Coach Ray hasn't done anything and has never been a head coach before. He is such an unknown nobody knows what he will do. We just don't know. If there is any comparison, he is more like Coach Croom. That is a more real comparison.

I did not use the Cohen analogy to show that Ray will be as good of a coach. It was more of an analogy as the state of the program, which in fact are very similar. Both had no talent left on the roster and both are rumored to have the former coach going behind the scenes talking bad about the program. The Croom analogy may be accurate, but this is only year 2 and we need a couple more years before we can assess whether he is Croom or Cohen.

[Dawg61]

Disagree. Every time we shoot we cheat mechanics. If we aren't a lazy team anymore then how come we are too lazy to shoot the ball correctly?

[Esmerelda Villalobos]

Basketball is the ONE game I know. Ive watched us play 3 times.
We arent good.
We arent well coached.
We dont really hustle.

Couple that with a bad recruiter and Ill go ahead and say it was a bad hire. We look OK last year at points but this year is auschwitz.

I know we will pay the guy for 2 more years and he will make 4 more million off the university but it was the wrong hire. Yes, we would win more with stans than this guy but stans needed to go. The problem is we hired the wrong guy.

Simple as that. Everyone likes coach Ray. Great. I do to and I thought he was what we needed but I think I was wrong.

[JOHNHEVESYMADE]

I did not use the Cohen analogy to show that Ray will be as good of a coach. It was more of an analogy as the state of the program, which in fact are very similar. Both had no talent left on the roster and both are rumored to have the former coach going behind the scenes talking bad about the program. The Croom analogy may be accurate, but this is only year 2 and we need a couple more years before we can assess whether he is Croom or Cohen.

Cohen took a Kentucky program that had zero tradition and history and made them very competitive and started winning. Rick Ray has never been a head coach, and he left a Clemson program that finished 16-15. Also there are strong rumors that he was fired at Purdue. There is no comparison to Cohen and Ray. This is very similar to Croom. I don't blame Ray for taking the job. I do blame Stricklin. I think you can look at Auburn and see how hard it is to turn a program around. Are we going to watch this program burn to the ground once Chicken, Gavin, and Fred graduate? We aren't Indiana, people will simply not care about basketball just like Ole Miss, Georgia, and Auburn. I hate what our program has become. I solely blame Scott Stricklin and he better get the next hire right because fundamentally this won't work with Rick Ray as our head coach.

[CadaverDawg]

Basketball is the ONE game I know. Ive watched us play 3 times.
We arent good.
We arent well coached.
We dont really hustle.

Couple that with a bad recruiter and Ill go ahead and say it was a bad hire. We look OK last year at points but this year is auschwitz.

I know we will pay the guy for 2 more years and he will make 4 more million off the university but it was the wrong hire. Yes, we would win more with stans than this guy but stans needed to go. The problem is we hired the wrong guy.

Simple as that. Everyone likes coach Ray. Great. I do to and I thought he was what we needed but I think I was wrong.

Good post. I agree

[Dawg61]

Bruce Pearl's show clause is up after this season. All the Vols want him hired back but we could steal him before they grow the balls. Lionel Hollins needs a job too.

[CadaverDawg]

Bruce Pearl's show clause is up after this season. All the Vols want him hired back but we could steal him before they grow the balls. Lionel Hollins needs a job too.

I would take the guy at USM right now over what we've got.

[cheewgumm]

The MAIN 3 things you have to do as a college basketball coach are :

1) Recruit
2) Recruit
3) Recruit

Standbury could do that. Don't know about Ray. I'm not syaing we should have kept Stand, but he could recruit, that's a fact.

Doesn't really matter, just keep the schedule like it is and we'll go 500. Who really cares. Ray is going to be here about 4-5 years, then gone.

[Dawg61]

Don't want this to start into a Stansbury thread but he COULD recruit up until around 2006. Then he missed on almost everyone else he signed. He lost it. Let him go. We didn't force him to lose his eye for the right talent. He just did. Once that was gone everything else that Stansbury was missing became even more glaring. He had a good run and we are all thankful for it. His run ran up.

[maroonmania]

Don't want this to start into a Stansbury thread but he COULD recruit up until around 2006. Then he missed on almost everyone else he signed. He lost it. Let him go. We didn't force him to lose his eye for the right talent. He just did. Once that was gone everything else that Stansbury was missing became even more glaring. He had a good run and we are all thankful for it. His run ran up.

I will probably get ridiculed but I said it then and I'll say it now, if we couldn't get a KNOWN quantity as our head basketball coach then we should have hired Robert Kirby. I know Strick apparently wanted a clean break from all things Stansbury but Kirby was a hell of a recruiter that could have used the same 'network' that Stans already had in place AND to be honest, our teams looked worse coached and our team chemistry was MUCH more dysfunctional the last 2 years under Stans AFTER Kirby left and went to Georgetown. Yes, Stans lost control over his last several years but there were a lot of good things about the program during the Stans years and all we did was throw the baby out with the bath water. Now it doesn't seem like we have much recruiting or coaching going on. At least with Stans and his staff we didn't lack for reeling in talent and Kirby was a big part of that.

[MarketingBully01]

I agree. Kirby would have been a good choice. I think Butch Pierre would have been a good choice too.

[Ronny]

..you see fit to concern troll our basketball program & Ray?

Do you not recall the ****ed up pile of shit Stansbury left?

So you really expect to be playing Duke-level basketball the 2nd year after Stans' departure?

Lastly, I wish everybody would please STFU about Ray's recruiting ability.

What gets me is coach34 sarcastically called Stanbury "the recruiter".

As if Stansbury's ability to recruit was a negative.

[HailState39110]

The analogies to football and baseball do not work when talking basketball IMO. In football you must recruit 22 starters plus build depth to be successful . In baseball you must recruit 9 starters plus build starting pitching and a bullpen to be successful. You can win in basketball with 3 good players ( big man, point guard, and a 3 point sniper) . If Ray signed Pollard and Malik Newman we would be a borderline NCAA tournament team

[coastdoglover]

Seems like you are asking for the same as the guy you so joyously helped run off. Funny how folks have figured it out, be careful what you wish for, you might get it. We are as bad as it has ever been at MSU and I don't buy all the talent left. He was part of that process and we are now giving away tickets to even get 3000 there and how much has this fiasco cost MSU in dollars? It was bad timing and even worse, a hire that was not an upgrade, blast me all you want to, but the proof is in the pudding.



Ray needs to process a couple and pull in some recruits that can play SEC basketball. And he needs to get people sponsoring AAU basketball the way we used to. We need to get back to doing all we can to make sure AAU basketball continues to thrive

[bully99]

One of Ray's problems in coaching and recruiting is he doesn't have a big personality. He's too laid back and doesn't command respect that a coach needs.
Buy there ain't no damn way Stansbury could come back as coach. He was too toxic. Had to go.

[sleepy dawg]

The 3 most important things of a coach are not all "Recruit". If that was the case, Stansbury would be legendary. Recruiting is nothing without coaching and player development. Recruiting is equally important as coaching.

And despite what Dawg61 says, Stans could still recruit pretty good, even at the end. He had a 5 star and 2 4 star players in the 2011 class.

[HoopsDawg]

Recruiting is equally important as coaching.



Not in college hoops. It's about 80/20.

[ScottH]

The most sobering thing for me was on my drive back to Salt Lake City after the Utah State game.

I was listening to the Utah State coach on his post game show.

The context was the radio guy was talking about the few number of SEC teams that had come to Logan and the success Utah State had against them

His comment "We are obviously happy to have a SEC team come to Logan and we are happy with the win but that team (MSU) doesn't have the players to compete in the SEC...... They are a 2 or 3 years of good recruiting away."

It was sobering:
1. To just hear it
2. To hear it from opposing coach
3. To hear it from opposing coach that just beat us by 20.

[HailState39110]

Exactly. If we are 2 or 3 years away from competing with good recruiting, how many years away are we with bad to average recruiting? what is Rays plan of action to upgrade the talent on our roster? That is what we all want to know