Throw money at proven coach OR get an Up and Comer

[cheewgumm]

SEC coaches make anywhere from $650k - $3M

Most about $1.3

Wes Johnson makes $1m. Could you offer him$1.5m and have a chance? How about $1.8m?

Or

Will we find an op and comer or assistant and offer $1m?

Generally, which route will we take?

[StateDawg44]

Did we really need a whole new thread on this? This is being discussed in at least 3 other existing ones.

Wes Johnson has zero reason and I?m sure zero desire to leave Athens.

[cheewgumm]

Yes it needs its own thread.

Or they can move it wherever they want. I don?t care.


He?d leave Athens if he got a 80%raise.

[StateDawg44]

He?d leave Athens if he got a 80%raise.

Yeah ok. So he ain?t leaving.

[Pancho]

i can remember folks here saying wes wasn't HC material.............

[Coursesuper]

Yes it needs its own thread.

Or they can move it wherever they want. I don?t care.


He?d leave Athens if he got a 80%raise.

No, he would not. The ceiling is way higher in Athens for him. The resources that are available to him there dwarf anything that will ever even be thought about here. It’s not even close.

[cheewgumm]

No, he would not. The ceiling is way higher in Athens for him. The resources that are available to him there dwarf anything that will ever even be thought about here. It’s not even close.

For an 80% raise he?d probably be here tonight.

I?m just using Johnson as an example. I?m not even sure I?d want him .

Things turn quickly. Look at AM.

[Coursesuper]

For an 80% raise he?d probably be here tonight.

I?m just using Johnson as an example. I?m not even sure I?d want him .

Things turn quickly. Look at AM.

I understand what you are getting at but, simply put we don’t have the resources with the current spending requirements that are put into our budgets. This is why the AD is backing away from non revenue sports. We have to be more than competitive in football and basketball to remain in our situation. When the next realignment comes, and it will come, we can’t afford to be left out. If we are it would be devastating for the entire university. We had over 5000 prospective students and families on campus just yesterday for a spring preview yesterday, one of many thru the year. Our being part of the big league of collegiate sports is a definitely a factor in bringing those people here. We can not fall to the USM La Tech tier that’s the end for us. We will be Arkansas State, small school in a small town in the middle of nowhere to the rest of the world.

[PGHBulldogBG]

I understand what you are getting at but, simply put we don’t have the resources with the current spending requirements that are put into our budgets. This is why the AD is backing away from non revenue sports. We have to be more than competitive in football and basketball to remain in our situation. When the next realignment comes, and it will come, we can’t afford to be left out. If we are it would be devastating for the entire university. We had over 5000 prospective students and families on campus just yesterday for a spring preview yesterday, one of many thru the year. Our being part of the big league of collegiate sports is a definitely a factor in bringing those people here. We can not fall to the USM La Tech tier that’s the end for us. We will be Arkansas State, small school in a small town in the middle of nowhere to the rest of the world.

This post is extremely spot on. Our fans need to realize that football and basketball drive revenue and we just can?t spend loads of money on baseball when our football and basketball teams are not where they need to be when realignment comes around. It doesn?t help that Ole Miss is in a better spot at both. Five years ago we might have got the nudge in realignment over them, but definitely not now. Hopefully Selmon is working towards focusing on those two sports. Now I?m not saying keep Lemonis and let the program die completely, but I would rather us hire an up and comer that we don?t need to spend an arm and a leg on for baseball

[cheewgumm]

I ageee with all this.

And we will probably hire and up and comer in baseball that?s fine.

However the way Ole Miss got there j spending $ on coaches. Kiffin and Beard


Not hiring up and comers.

[Quaoarsking]

No, he would not. The ceiling is way higher in Athens for him. The resources that are available to him there dwarf anything that will ever even be thought about here. It’s not even close.

The ceiling is the same at both schools. If Chris Lemonis can win a national championship here, so can a good coach.

[StateDawg44]

So then why would Wes leave Athens if he could win a natty there just as easily as MSU? He?s already got his gig.

Here?s a hint: MSU isn?t going to be giving Wes an option for an 80% raise any time soon.

[EdwardDrayton]

No, he would not. The ceiling is way higher in Athens for him. The resources that are available to him there dwarf anything that will ever even be thought about here. It’s not even close.

Not disputing Course but specifically what resources does he have there that we do not.

[Quaoarsking]

I can think of 4 reasons why Johnson might leave Georgia for Mississippi State, but I don't think of them are particularly likely:
More money (I assume Georgia would match whatever offer up to what we would realistically pay, but maybe not?)
He has fond memories of his previous time in Starkville (rumor says no)
He likes the big crowds
He likes that the athletic department and culture at Mississippi State places a higher emphasis on baseball


It's worth pinging him for interest (just like it's worth pinging Vaughn and Vitello), but I wouldn't get my hopes up for him.

[cheewgumm]

Would Miggione leave? I think he would. But then why? He can win it in Kentucky just as easily.

Would Kiffin leave Ole Miss for Bama? Of so, why? He can win it at Ole Miss just like at Bama.

I guess for baseball I view our job more highly than most here.
I think State baseball is better than Georgia and Bama like Bama football is better than Ole Miss or State.

[EdwardDrayton]

I can think of 4 reasons why Johnson might leave Georgia for Mississippi State, but I don't think of them are particularly likely:
More money (I assume Georgia would match whatever offer up to what we would realistically pay, but maybe not?)
He has fond memories of his previous time in Starkville (rumor says no)
He likes the big crowds
He likes that the athletic department and culture at Mississippi State places a higher emphasis on baseball


It's worth pinging him for interest (just like it's worth pinging Vaughn and Vitello), but I wouldn't get my hopes up for him.

Interesting. I never accepted a matching offer from an existing employer. Always asked them if you thought I was worth it, why weren't you paying me that already.

[Tbonewannabe]

The only thing UGA has that we don't is talent within a 3 hour drive of the campus. You could easily field a National Title team within 3 hours of UGA if you get your pick. A lot of Vandy's talent is from the North Atlanta area.

[Coursesuper]

Not disputing Course but specifically what resources does he have there that we do not.

Deeper pockets and the production of revenue that we will only ever dream of. The infrastructure of just their athletics facilities would blow your mind. Everything there and I mean everything has been thought out to the last detail, even down to drainage and the collection of waste water runoff. They actually have an in house recycling plant for all plant materials on campus, they create their own topsoil and mulches without having to pay extra plus shipping for it. That may sound silly to most here but that is next level thinking when you consider the total cost. The football facility just wow, what $$$ will get you.

[Coach34]

A) We couldnt give him an 80% raise because Georgia would also give him a raise to keep him

B) 2022 happened and NIL is here to stay

C) Our SEC money is going down which is going to hurt. We have to tighten our sport's belt

D) There is so much talent within 3 hours of their school as someone said.

Our hire is going to be a top assistant or a HC from a lower type school

[cheewgumm]

I don?t think we are
Thinking big enough in baseball.

- We should be shooting for 20k fans at games.
- Build another loft.

Expand expand

To do that you need a great coach that wins.

[Todd4State]

Well one thing is for sure- MSU can afford at least 1.25-1.75 million for a baseball coach.

If they're so worried about the house settlement then they need to have the boosters help supplement whatever it will take to get an elite coach.

[Todd4State]

I ageee with all this.

And we will probably hire and up and comer in baseball that?s fine.

However the way Ole Miss got there j spending $ on coaches. Kiffin and Beard


Not hiring up and comers.

Exactly. You get what you pay for. And we pay to be a learning ground for head coaches.

[Coursesuper]

Exactly. You get what you pay for. And we pay to be a learning ground for head coaches.

Both of those were damaged goods high risk hires. Not expensive on the front end. It’s not like they were competing with anyone for them. That said it has worked out well for them.

[cheewgumm]

Is State doing bad in NIL in baseball?

I thought not.

[cheewgumm]

A) We couldnt give him an 80% raise because Georgia would also give him a raise to keep him

B) 2022 happened and NIL is here to stay

C) Our SEC money is going down which is going to hurt. We have to tighten our sport's belt

D) There is so much talent within 3 hours of their school as someone said.

Our hire is going to be a top assistant or a HC from a lower type school

make them pay him to then.

I thought State baseball was good in NIL.

We have no issue getting talent in baseball.

[PGHBulldogBG]

The difference with Ole Miss hiring Kiffin and Beard is they did it in the 2 sports generating revenue. I would want us to do the same thing if we could in those sports. Baseball is not revenue making and will have no impact on realignment. If it did, Oregon State would be in a major conference. A lot of our fans don?t get it and let their love for baseball blind them

[cheewgumm]

The difference with Ole Miss hiring Kiffin and Beard is they did it in the 2 sports generating revenue. I would want us to do the same thing if we could in those sports. Baseball is not revenue making and will have no impact on realignment. If it did, Oregon State would be in a major conference. A lot of our fans don?t get it and let their love for baseball blind them

We understand it.

We just don?t think it?s either or:

Ole Miss is ranked 9th in baseball.

[Activated Alpha]

Then with some of yalls attitudes, just keep Lemonis because yall would go along with his no nuts teams. Quit acting like damn defeatists. Now I know some will say, "well we are just being realists" but I've followed recruiting threads across our 3 sports and the consensus by those with no nuts is that we as a university just cannot compete. Well then **** it. Nothing we will ever do will matter when realignment comes because you know ****ing what? We just cannot compete.

[Coach34]

I thought State baseball was good in NIL. We have no issue getting talent in baseball.

Guys are taking less money to go to other schools. Say we offer 100K and Georgia offers 75K- they still go to Georgia. This is what SVS and I are talking about when we say Starkville hurts us.

Of course we have fans that dont want to acknowledge that or they will blame Lemon- but that is a reality we are facing in all 3 sports

[Todd4State]

Guys are taking less money to go to other schools. Say we offer 100K and Georgia offers 75K- they still go to Georgia. This is what SVS and I are talking about when we say Starkville hurts us.

Of course we have fans that dont want to acknowledge that or they will blame Lemon- but that is a reality we are facing in all 3 sports

That's not a Starkville problem.

That's a Mississippi State football program because a lot of kids want to go to a historical blueblood. We don't have a good football history.

[Coach34]

That's not a Starkville problem.

That's a Mississippi State football program because a lot of kids want to go to a historical blueblood. We don't have a good football history.

I just used Georgia as an example because we were talking about MiniMe. It's a problem in all 3 sports

[EdwardDrayton]

That's not a Starkville problem.

That's a Mississippi State football program because a lot of kids want to go to a historical blueblood. We don't have a good football history.

Money CAN overcome other issues. Filed under C: Calipari.

[HoopsDawg]

Guys are taking less money to go to other schools. Say we offer 100K and Georgia offers 75K- they still go to Georgia. This is what SVS and I are talking about when we say Starkville hurts us.

Of course we have fans that dont want to acknowledge that or they will blame Lemon- but that is a reality we are facing in all 3 sports

Yeah but if you are talking about baseball that's complete BS.

[Quaoarsking]

Do you have a list of all these players who have taken $75K at UGA over $100K at MSU?

I could see it happening a little bit (family connections, familiarity, etc.), but I can't imagine it has happened often.

[StateDawg44]

I could see it happening a little bit (family connections, familiarity, etc.), but I can't imagine it has happened often.

I?m sure it has happened on a couple of players. And will happen again. But there?s no way it?s as bad as those two want all of us think when it comes to Starkville.

No kid wants to play for a mid program under a boo-boo staff like we have currently.

[Quaoarsking]

Most (not all, obviously) Gen-Z kids just want to sit around and play video games, not go out to dance clubs or whatever. You can do that anywhere. The Starkville Stigma is overstated.

[EdwardDrayton]

Most (not all, obviously) Gen-Z kids just want to sit around and play video games, not go out to dance clubs or whatever. You can do that anywhere. The Starkville Stigma is overstated.

Very true. My only was born in 2001. Favorite pastime of him and his posse: playing video games. When they do go somewhere, it's not to clubs.

[Quaoarsking]

Although I will add that there's probably a "Mississippi Stigma" that hurts us, because most people who grow up outside of Mississippi (and some who grow up here) have had it reinforced into their head their whole life that this state is a punchline. I wish that could change.

[bulldogcountry1]

Most (not all, obviously) Gen-Z kids just want to sit around and play video games, not go out to dance clubs or whatever. You can do that anywhere. The Starkville Stigma is overstated.

Right. Anyone who has teenagers knows that kids are caring less and less about getting their drivers license. They have all they want in their hands. Blaming Starkville for underperforming in all sports is not a valid excuse, just because a couple of portal WRs don?t like it.

Get a staff that players want to play for AND play hard for, and all those external excuses go out the door.

[Coach34]

I’ve got a 15 yr old and a 13 year old. Me and their Mom are driving them somewhere every damn day for sports, parties, girlfriends, fishing, and all kinds of shit. I wish my kids would stay home more

[Ranchdawg]

My granddaughter at State and her boyfriend don’t go to bars/dance clubs etc. they say it is too expensive. They go to parties at friend’s apartment or go out to eat. Main entertainment for them is movies or video games at their apartment.

Let’s say we had Bama’s history, current status in football and still had Saban. Do y’all really think a stud/5star player is going to say no thanks because y’all’s university is located in small hick town in middle of nowhere. NOT! That player wants to play for a winner regardless where that school is located. That player wants to play for a proven coach that can possibly get himself to the NFL. That player in this environment also wants mega $$’s. I guess what I’m trying to say is a really good coach will make players want to come regardless of size of town. That’s what really pisses me off about MSU athletics we are always trying to poor boy it and hire unproven, don’t know how to be head coach, hire assistant coaches or head coaches of smaller schools that have no idea what it is like to compete with the head coaches of this league. HIRE damn real coaches! Don’t and let our programs go to crap like they are.

[StateDawg44]

Just the fact that some of you olds think ?dance clubs? are even a draw for any kids is hilarious.

Bars, eh maybe but I don?t think kids now drink near as much as we did in the early 00?s. Dance clubs weren?t even a thing that attracted any of my friends when we go to any city to travel.

Maybe a band might would get us up to Ricks or Dave?s that has a dance floor but that?s just a bar/venue.

We?ve gone from not having a Target for the coach?s we can?t get Mrs. to not having dance clubs for the young folks. We?re doomed 🤣

[BigDawg81]

I understand what you are getting at but, simply put we don?t have the resources with the current spending requirements that are put into our budgets. This is why the AD is backing away from non revenue sports. We have to be more than competitive in football and basketball to remain in our situation. When the next realignment comes, and it will come, we can?t afford to be left out. If we are it would be devastating for the entire university. We had over 5000 prospective students and families on campus just yesterday for a spring preview yesterday, one of many thru the year. Our being part of the big league of collegiate sports is a definitely a factor in bringing those people here. We can not fall to the USM La Tech tier that?s the end for us. We will be Arkansas State, small school in a small town in the middle of nowhere to the rest of the world.

I disagree with not having the resources when more money is getting put into DNF in the near future. There is master plan to every facility. Our NIL is pretty much in middle of the pack except for football. Unfortunately, football is the biggest money maker in any athletic department.

[Todd4State]

I disagree with not having the resources when more money is getting put into DNF in the near future. There is master plan to every facility. Our NIL is pretty much in middle of the pack except for football. Unfortunately, football is the biggest money maker in any athletic department.

I think there is definite potential for NIL growth in football for MSU. I wonder how many fans aren't donating because the team looks hopeless and maybe they're on the fence about Lebby?

[cheewgumm]

I think there is definite potential for NIL growth in football for MSU. I wonder how many fans aren't donating because the team looks hopeless and maybe they're on the fence about Lebby?

The school needs to push Monty donations from every day fans more.

That?s books be the centerpiece .

Give us $10-$100 per month. It takes a village.

[Coursesuper]

I disagree with not having the resources when more money is getting put into DNF in the near future. There is master plan to every facility. Our NIL is pretty much in middle of the pack except for football. Unfortunately, football is the biggest money maker in any athletic department.

If you think that money is available now I have a bridge to sell you. That is some high grade wishlist propaganda that pushed out to placate the gullible masses. There is just enough funding for LED lighting at Davis Wade.

[maroonmania]

I think there is definite potential for NIL growth in football for MSU. I wonder how many fans aren't donating because the team looks hopeless and maybe they're on the fence about Lebby?

Exactly, until a lot of fans have HOPE they aren't going to give in abundance. A lot of fans will just feel its wasting their money. Things that would help would include not getting blown out by a MAC team.

[Coach34]

Just the fact that some of you olds think ?dance clubs? are even a draw for any kids is hilarious
��

That was in my day. We are well aware its easy just to hook up now thru an app.

But live music/concerts and other things do attract people. Fun places to go like a Dave and Busters or Surge.

[cheewgumm]

That was in my day. We are well aware its easy just to hook up now thru an app.

But live music/concerts and other things do attract people. Fun places to go like a Dave and Busters or Surge.

The Club!!!!

[EdwardDrayton]

That was in my day. We are well aware its easy just to hook up now thru an app.

But live music/concerts and other things do attract people. Fun places to go like a Dave and Busters or Surge.

^^^^^^

[PGHBulldogBG]

Exactly, until a lot of fans have HOPE they aren't going to give in abundance. A lot of fans will just feel its wasting their money. Things that would help would include not getting blown out by a MAC team.

That is why it is extremely important for us to win 5 or 6 games this year. If we do that, it will make people more confident in Lebby being a coach that can get us to be competitive. I think if we can win even 2 SEC games and don?t lose to the 3 non conference teams outside of ASU who is going to be really good then it will help

[Bdawg]

Just the fact that some of you olds think ?dance clubs? are even a draw for any kids is hilarious.

Bars, eh maybe but I don?t think kids now drink near as much as we did in the early 00?s. Dance clubs weren?t even a thing that attracted any of my friends when we go to any city to travel.

Maybe a band might would get us up to Ricks or Dave?s that has a dance floor but that?s just a bar/venue.

We?ve gone from not having a Target for the coach?s we can?t get Mrs. to not having dance clubs for the young folks. We?re doomed ��

I hardly saw football players out much in bars back in the day anyway. They are too damn busy. 5:30 am weights, early classes, film and practices in the afternoon and evening. Turns around and do it again the next day. It’s a damn job! And how many kids on recruiting trips ask the coaches, “Where are all the bars?” “I ain’t coming here with so few bar and dance club options!!”

[EdwardDrayton]

I hardly saw football players out much in bars back in the day anyway. They are too damn busy. 5:30 am weights, early classes, film and practices in the afternoon and evening. Turns around and do it again the next day. It’s a damn job! And how many kids on recruiting trips ask the coaches, “Where are all the bars?” “I ain’t coming here with so few bar and dance club options!!”

Well, back in my day ................ let's just say it was different then.

[Bdawg]

Well, back in my day ................ let's just say it was different then.

But I bet they didn’t choose the school based on the bar scene. Just saying. And I’m not saying they didn’t go out, but they are busy as hell and coaches do that for a reason I’m sure. Lived with a lot players on the hall my freshman year and during the week they were pretty low key with those early weights. They knew they would pay the price the next morning!! Ha. Weekends they were playing ball. Now if they didn’t dress, I can’t speak for that. I’ll just say they didn’t go out quite like me!! Ha ha!

Edit: were you in John Bond era??? Ha ha

[Coach34]

And how many kids on recruiting trips ask the coaches, “Where are all the bars?” “I ain’t coming here with so few bar and dance club options!!”

Its fans like you that are so blind. Why do you think Freezus recruited so well in Oxford? He was supplying recruits with parties and girls. Every school offered money- but Freezus was offering a damn good time. It was a miracle we kept Chris Jones. U heard of Johnny Football? As many guys pick the school they had the best time at as they do they think is the best fit. Acting like 18 year olds make wise business decisions is ludicrous

Shit- when I was in school I partied with the players. I knew exactly what they were doing. Especially off season. I've watched BJ Wallace drinking out of a Jim Beam bottle roll down townhouse steps on a Saturday night and then go out and pitch on that Sunday afternoon.

[EdwardDrayton]

Its fans like you that are so blind. Why do you think Freezus recruited so well in Oxford? He was supplying recruits with parties and girls. Every school offered money- but Freezus was offering a damn good time. It was a miracle we kept Chris Jones. U heard of Johnny Football? As many guys pick the school they had the best time at as they do they think is the best fit. Acting like 18 year olds make wise business decisions is ludicrous

Shit- when I was in school I partied with the players. I knew exactly what they were doing. Especially off season. I've watched BJ Wallace drinking out of a Jim Beam bottle roll down townhouse steps on a Saturday night and then go out and pitch on that Sunday afternoon.

And probably pitched like a baseball god that Sunday.

[RezDog7]

Both of those were damaged goods high risk hires. Not expensive on the front end. It’s not like they were competing with anyone for them. That said it has worked out well for them.

Literally competing with Arkansas for Kiffin

[Bdawg]

Its fans like you that are so blind. Why do you think Freezus recruited so well in Oxford? He was supplying recruits with parties and girls. Every school offered money- but Freezus was offering a damn good time. It was a miracle we kept Chris Jones. U heard of Johnny Football? As many guys pick the school they had the best time at as they do they think is the best fit. Acting like 18 year olds make wise business decisions is ludicrous

Shit- when I was in school I partied with the players. I knew exactly what they were doing. Especially off season. I've watched BJ Wallace drinking out of a Jim Beam bottle roll down townhouse steps on a Saturday night and then go out and pitch on that Sunday afternoon.

You are painting with a broad brush. Of course there were those that went out and did dumb shit on the regular. Doesn’t mean all or most do. And Freeze was a sleezball who turned his heads for prostitution for recruits. I didn’t mention paid ****y being involved. Got himself canned too! All that to say, I feel some of yall put to much emphasis on the town affecting recruiting. Some kids may like big cities. I get that. But some dont. If they just want to go out and get drunk and party, they can do that at pretty much any college they want. I get Starkville isn’t for everybody but dont think for a minute Oxford is some shining beacon on a hill. Friends of mine we’re back and forth between the 2 and we had just as much fun in both places.

[Todd4State]

Its fans like you that are so blind. Why do you think Freezus recruited so well in Oxford? He was supplying recruits with parties and girls. Every school offered money- but Freezus was offering a damn good time. It was a miracle we kept Chris Jones. U heard of Johnny Football? As many guys pick the school they had the best time at as they do they think is the best fit. Acting like 18 year olds make wise business decisions is ludicrous

Shit- when I was in school I partied with the players. I knew exactly what they were doing. Especially off season. I've watched BJ Wallace drinking out of a Jim Beam bottle roll down townhouse steps on a Saturday night and then go out and pitch on that Sunday afternoon.

That was also pre-NIL and Ole Miss was throwing around money like crazy.

They also had a built in connection with Nkemdiche by signing his brother. Tony Conner was from South Panola in their backyard. Credit due for outbidding people for Tunsil and Treadwell. They also lost on some big names too- Chris Jones, Alvin Kamara, and Jalen Ramsey. Interestingly enough Tunsil is really the only one they signed that panned out in the NFL. And some of their better players ended up being guys like Evan Engram and Jordan Wilkins. They also got lucky that they got Chad Kelly after he was an idiot at Clemson and he was the perfect QB for Freeze.

[MoreCowbell]

Just the fact that some of you olds think ?dance clubs? are even a draw for any kids is hilarious.

Bars, eh maybe but I don?t think kids now drink near as much as we did in the early 00?s. Dance clubs weren?t even a thing that attracted any of my friends when we go to any city to travel.

Maybe a band might would get us up to Ricks or Dave?s that has a dance floor but that?s just a bar/venue.

We?ve gone from not having a Target for the coach?s we can?t get Mrs. to not having dance clubs for the young folks. We?re doomed 🤣

Baby boomers man

[Brobi-wan]

Although I will add that there's probably a "Mississippi Stigma" that hurts us, because most people who grow up outside of Mississippi (and some who grow up here) have had it reinforced into their head their whole life that this state is a punchline. I wish that could change.

Well, in many ways it is. In many ways it?s not. It?s a great place for a certain type of individual. Some states have places for all types of individuals. But I think of Arkansas of more of a punchline than MS