Baseball Hot Board

[StarkVegasSteve]

I think it's probably a good time to fire this thing up. We can all see where this is headed and it's to Lemonis being replaced. With that being said, let's get the Hot Board going!!

Unrealistic But You Have to Make The Call

1. Link Jarrett-Wish we could've gotten him 3 years ago but he's now at his alma mater. But hey, our people leave their alma mater all the time. So why not give it a try? Guy has won everywhere.

2. Erik Bakich-The guy took Michigan to the CWS finals and has Clemson back rolling again. He'd probably be at the top of my list if I felt like we could realistically get him.

3. Mitch Canham-Again, you run into the alma mater situation but he's kept Oregon St steady after Pat. There's also so much uncertainty around them and how they're going to be able to compete at the D1 level without a conference so maybe you play that card.

4. Wes Johnson-He is not coming here. I will preface it with that. His wife HATED Starkville when he was here for his one year. But hey, make the call and throw a good salary at him. Maybe UGA will decide he's not worth it.

5. Butch Thompson-He's been up and down at Auburn but he has two CWS appearances at a school that had 4 all time prior to his arrival. He seems to know how to work the portal and he's the de facto PC. The Foxhall part of it would be weird, but I doubt he'd bring him. Also would be a giant 17 you to Cohen.


Realistic Hires

1. Rob Vaughn-He's winning at Bama for christ sake and won at Maryland before that. The guys IDs talent and builds prgorams as good as any coach. Look no further that what he has done with Justin LeBron.

2. Jordan Bischel-Had CMU as a real power at the G5 level and is building Cincinnati back, yes CINCINNATI, at an incredible pace. I have been a fan of his since the 2019 regional in Starkville. His teams play with less than zero fear no matter who they are playing and they stay loose. A stark contrast from our current team.

3. Skylar Meade-Has really done well at Troy. Has them in the Top 25 this year and seems to have that program in a great spot.

4. Mark Wasikowski-I am not as big a fan of his as others. He seems a little like Lemonis to me. But he has been solid at Oregon. Back to back Supers.

5. Skip Johnson-Pulling on Selmon's OU connections here. I think you could get him and get him without too much of a fight from OU. They don't really seem to prioritize baseball and he's done really well there.

6. Chris Pollard-Pretty consistent at Duke but nothing to really write home about. 3 Supers in 12 years is not exactly great.

Assts

1. Nate Thompson-I think this would have been the hire had we gone the asst route in 2019. His name has cooled a bit since but he's still one of the best recruiters in the country. He also seems to have altered their hitting approach this year and it has made them a better team.

2. Josh Elander-Seems to be the odds on favorite this time if we go this route. Been with Vitello since the beginning at Tennessee. And they swing tree trunks at the plate. The worry with him is that I think people will think we're getting a Vitello clone and that's just not the truth.

3. Will Coggin-Played here and was an asst under Cohen. A lot of people credit him with our hitting jump from 15 to 16. Went with Mingione to UK and is now with Wes at UGA. If we're going asst route, I would pick him or Thompson. He's known as a giant asshole so he probably won't be kissing babies and signing baseballs for kids, but he wins and recruits at a high level.

Candidates That People Mention That We ARE NOT Hiring

1. Dan Heefner-He's not leaving DBU. He's had multiple opportunities and been offered multiple HIGH LEVEL P4 jobs and turned them all down. He's not coming.

2. Tony Vitello-No. And btw, we actually have fans who think hiring him is realistic. I am not kidding on that.


Candidates That Will Win But We Have To Lock Them In Their Office With No Cell Phone

1. Andy Cannizarro-Give me the boxing gloves and spiked shoulder pads. Give me the stupid mirror selfies from the gym at 5 AM. But also, give me the guy that never said die with a team that had POSITION PLAYERS STARTING SEC GAMES. Give me the guy that recruited Tanner Allen, Landon Sims, Logan Tanner, Justin Foscue, and Jordan Westburg.

[gtowndawg]

On Sixpack there's a post about Bo Bounds saying we can't afford a buyout. I imagine that's probably true. But can we do the buyout and just hire an up and comer for cheap, that way it's a wash? I can't imagine a young aggressive coach would be any worse, right? Maybe so, I don't follow baseball.

[StarkVegasSteve]

On Sixpack there's a post about Bo Bounds saying we can't afford a buyout. I imagine that's probably true. But can we do the buyout and just hire an up and comer for cheap, that way it's a wash? I can't imagine a young aggressive coach would be any worse, right? Maybe so, I don't follow baseball.

Bo is in with the Madison boosters that want to keep Lemonis because he gives the unfettered access to the program. Bo just throws shit at a wall to see what sticks. We have 5-6 who can pay the buyout and the new staff salaries with one stroke of a pen.

[Homedawg]

Not sure Vaughn is a honest to goodness realistic choice. So go down from there. We won't hire some big name guy. Will be like the last hire as far as name recognition

[gtowndawg]

Bo is in with the Madison boosters that want to keep Lemonis because he gives the unfettered access to the program. Bo just throws shit at a wall to see what sticks. We have 5-6 who can pay the buyout and the new staff salaries with one stroke of a pen.

Yeah, I've never been a fan, so I take what he says with a grain of salt.

[Coursesuper]

Bo is in with the Madison boosters that want to keep Lemonis because he gives the unfettered access to the program. Bo just throws shit at a wall to see what sticks. We have 5-6 who can pay the buyout and the new staff salaries with one stroke of a pen.

This is the truth, don't believe a word from that guys mouth. Those people are a part of the problem.

[HoopsDawg]

Hire Elander and don't look back.

[DownwardDawg]

On Sixpack there's a post about Bo Bounds saying we can't afford a buyout. I imagine that's probably true. But can we do the buyout and just hire an up and comer for cheap, that way it's a wash? I can't imagine a young aggressive coach would be any worse, right? Maybe so, I don't follow baseball.

Bo is a dubmass that doesn't know crap.

[StarkVegasSteve]

Bo is a dubmass that doesn't know crap.

Bo knows stuff. I'm not saying he doesn't know stuff or have sources. But he's far too biased with this. He and those Madison Co. boosters are going to die on the Lemonis hill before they admit that he's the problem. They'll blame everything else and then once they're out of others to blame, they change the narrative to we can't fire him. Richard Adkerson can cut a check tomorrow and pay the entire staff buyout and not know the money was missing out of his account.

[Todd4State]

On Sixpack there's a post about Bo Bounds saying we can't afford a buyout. I imagine that's probably true. But can we do the buyout and just hire an up and comer for cheap, that way it's a wash? I can't imagine a young aggressive coach would be any worse, right? Maybe so, I don't follow baseball.

If we can't afford a 1.25 million buyout it's more than our baseball program that is 17ed.

[Todd4State]

I would add Pollard from Duke to your list. That's the guy we should want. I absolutely 100% think he would come here too.

Some of our fans seem to have fallen in love with Elander. It's too risky. Good chance he fails here. I think he is ready for a head coaching job but not ours.

[Coach34]

Bo knows stuff. I'm not saying he doesn't know stuff or have sources. But he's far too biased with this. He and those Madison Co. boosters are going to die on the Lemonis hill before they admit that he's the problem. They'll blame everything else and then once they're out of others to blame, they change the narrative to we can't fire him. Richard Adkerson can cut a check tomorrow and pay the entire staff buyout and not know the money was missing out of his account.

People use Bo to put out info. People from campus as well as Boosters

[Todd4State]

Not sure Vaughn is a honest to goodness realistic choice. So go down from there. We won't hire some big name guy. Will be like the last hire as far as name recognition

Why not? We can and will pay more and have more resources. There isn't much further he could go up in the industry unless he takes a MLB job.

[Todd4State]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Pollard

[Todd4State]

https://goduke.com/sports/baseball/roster/coaches/chris-pollard/5062

[starkvegasdawg]

We have 5-6 who can pay the buyout and the new staff salaries with one stroke of a pen.

I'm not one of those 5-6 people, but I might be able to take a prospective coach to Captain D's or something along as he didn't go overboard and order an extra side and dessert.

[HoopsDawg]

I would add Pollard from Duke to your list. That's the guy we should want. I absolutely 100% think he would come here too.

Some of our fans seem to have fallen in love with Elander. It's too risky. Good chance he fails here. I think he is ready for a head coaching job but not ours.

No shot at Pollard. He turned down A&M and Miami. He loves it a Duke and they are putting money into their facilities.

I've got a surprise name for you that would be interested, Brian O'Conner from UVA.

[Homedawg]

Why not? We can and will pay more and have more resources. There isn't much further he could go up in the industry unless he takes a MLB job.

We might be willing to pay more, maybe, but selmon isn't going to break the bank on a baseball hire. And yes our job is better than bamas, I'll go w that. But it's not a slam dunk. Hes in the sec.

[Todd4State]

Bo knows stuff. I'm not saying he doesn't know stuff or have sources. But he's far too biased with this. He and those Madison Co. boosters are going to die on the Lemonis hill before they admit that he's the problem. They'll blame everything else and then once they're out of others to blame, they change the narrative to we can't fire him. Richard Adkerson can cut a check tomorrow and pay the entire staff buyout and not know the money was missing out of his account.

I'm not sure how much ultimate influence they will have in this final decision at the end of the year. We have booster options that can come up with money very easily that probably care even more about baseball than they do like you said.

If Lemonis loses the diehard baseball boosters he is screwed. And he is off to a good start. LOL.

We are in agreement that if he misses the postseason he is gone and there is a 50/50 chance he comes back if he sneaks us in as a three seed somewhere.

[HoopsDawg]

We might be willing to pay more, maybe, but selmon isn't going to break the bank on a baseball hire. And yes our job is better than bamas, I'll go w that. But it's not a slam dunk. Hes in the sec.

Yeah, Bama used to be at a massive disadvantage due to out of state tuition. But that's been mitigated thru NIL.

[Todd4State]

No shot at Pollard. He turned down A&M and Miami. He loves it a Duke and they are putting money into their facilities.

I've got a surprise name for you that would be interested, Brian O'Conner from UVA.

We're a better job than those two. If he wants to move up in the baseball world we're the move.

[Todd4State]

We might be willing to pay more, maybe, but selmon isn't going to break the bank on a baseball hire. And yes our job is better than bamas, I'll go w that. But it's not a slam dunk. Hes in the sec.

He makes 900K at Bama. I think we can make a competitive offer that is significantly more and Bama isn't going to break the bank on him either.

By significant I mean we could easily go 1.5 million.

[Coach34]

If we can't afford a 1.25 million buyout it's more than our baseball program that is 17ed.

It's not just 1.25. There's Parker and Cheese also.

If we miss a Regional- you have to fire him. The money will probably show up if I had to guess

[Coach34]

He makes 900K at Bama. I think we can make a competitive offer that is significantly more and Bama isn't going to break the bank on him either.

By significant I mean we could easily go 1.5 million.

What would he gain by coming to Starkville? He can do the same things at Bama

[Todd4State]

It's not just 1.25. There's Parker and Cheese also.

If we miss a Regional- you have to fire him. The money will probably show up if I had to guess

Right. And Gautreau. Would be fine keeping Parker. I think the actual total would be like 3 million or something like that depending on who stays and goes.

Money won't be an issue.

[StarkVegasSteve]

It's not just 1.25. There's Parker and Cheese also.

If we miss a Regional- you have to fire him. The money will probably show up if I had to guess

The money was there in 22 but Lemonis bought himself another year by getting rid of Foxhall. I don't think he has someone that can fall on the sword this time. He can't blame Jake because we're batting .311 as a team with an OBP of .417. You can't really blame Parker with a team ERA of 3.56. I mean is he going to blame Cheese and fire his bestfriend?

[parabrave]

Realistic the guy at Troy. He has them in the top 25, and he might have a winning record against SEC Opponents this year. Unrealistic John Cohen. Just keep the AD doors locked.

[Coursesuper]

Right. And Gautreau. Would be fine keeping Parker. I think the actual total would be like 3 million or something like that depending on who stays and goes.

Money won't be an issue.

Just stop with this keeping Parker stuff, if Lemon is let go they are all gone. The next guy will want his people on his staff, he sinks or swims with them, so the buy out will be for all hands if this staff is relived.

[StarkVegasSteve]

I would add Pollard from Duke to your list. That's the guy we should want. I absolutely 100% think he would come here too.

Some of our fans seem to have fallen in love with Elander. It's too risky. Good chance he fails here. I think he is ready for a head coaching job but not ours.

He's added. Probably a safe option. I mean 3 supers in 12 years is not really anything to write home about at a P5 program. I mean I don't think he's never even hosted a regional

[HoopsDawg]

He's added. Probably a safe option. I mean 3 supers in 12 years is not really anything to write home about at a P5 program. I mean I don't think he's never even hosted a regional

No offense intended, but you are pretty clueless about baseball if you don't realize that Pollard would be a homerun hire.

[WinningIsRelentless]

But money is an issue in today?s time. Let me break it down real simple for y?all. We can only compete in football and either basketball or baseball. We don?t have the funds needed with the state of college athletes to build all three. We just don?t.

[StarkVegasSteve]

No offense intended, but you are pretty clueless about baseball if you don't realize that Pollard would be a homerun hire.

Why would he be a HR hire? Genuinely curious because nothing on his record screams HR hire. Without winning the conference tournament he would've made the NCAA tournament 1 time in the last 4 years and he's a .500 coach in the NCAAT. Like what screams HR hire about that? I'm being serious. I'm not trying to say you're wrong just genuinely curious what y'all see in the guy. That's why I didn't add him to the initial list.

[BankerDog]

People use Bo to put out info. People from campus as well as Boosters


Bo loved Zach, Barbay, and also loves him some Ross Highfill.

[StarkVegasSteve]

Bo loved Zach, Barbay, and also loves him some Ross Highfill.

Interesting that the other people who loved Arnett, Barbay, and love Highfill also reside in Madison Co. I'm sure that's just a coincidence though

[BankerDog]

What would he gain by coming to Starkville? He can do the same things at Bama

One of reasons Lemonis is struggling is we no longer have recruiting advantages in AL, GA, etc. the day those programs started to take baseball seriously-it became a lot harder for us.

[BankerDog]

Interesting that the other people who loved Arnett, Barbay, and love Highfill also reside in Madison Co. I'm sure that's just a coincidence though

Start thinking about some of our highest paid athletes and what they have in common. I?ll break it down for you: Hines, Highfill, Jordan, Blanton, Hubbard.

[BankerDog]

But money is an issue in today?s time. Let me break it down real simple for y?all. We can only compete in football and either basketball or baseball. We don?t have the funds needed with the state of college athletes to build all three. We just don?t.

This. We pour in $5MM per year (that was what was budgeted this year for baseball at least) and only generate $2.0MM gross revenues. So losing $3.5MM per year in baseball. But hey we got attendance records and a nice ball field!

[Todd4State]

He's added. Probably a safe option. I mean 3 supers in 12 years is not really anything to write home about at a P5 program. I mean I don't think he's never even hosted a regional

Duke hadn't even been to regional since 1961 before he got there.

[Todd4State]

What would he gain by coming to Starkville? He can do the same things at Bama

There is more prestige as far as baseball is concerned at MSU. He won't have to compete with football as much as far as booster support goes at MSU. And we can pay more if we really want him.

[Todd4State]

Why would he be a HR hire? Genuinely curious because nothing on his record screams HR hire. Without winning the conference tournament he would've made the NCAA tournament 1 time in the last 4 years and he's a .500 coach in the NCAAT. Like what screams HR hire about that? I'm being serious. I'm not trying to say you're wrong just genuinely curious what y'all see in the guy. That's why I didn't add him to the initial list.

You should look him up. He has won at App State and Duke- two essentially impossible places to win at. He has produced MLB players like Marcus Stroman. His staff is really good and has a ton of recruiting connections with scouts and PG.

If you give a guy like that our resources he is going to win big here.

[StarkVegasSteve]

Duke hadn't even been to regional since 1961 before he got there.

Again though, what does he bring to the table that makes him a HR hire? I am not trying to say he's not a good hire. Just trying to understand what makes him such a can't miss. Is it just that he's done good at a historically down program? I mean that's good, but that doesn't exactly make him can't miss. And maybe y'all are just saying HR candidate because you think he's the best of the most realistic candidates.

[Pancho]

Problem seems to be that all these guys are better than what we have with Lemo......that is what I am being told.

[StarkVegasSteve]

Problem seems to be that all these guys are better than what we have with Lemo......that is what I am being told.

Well that's the bad thing. We don't know if any of them will be better. They could end up being worse. I mean Justin Haire was the sure fire can't miss, he'd have us competing in Yr 1 candidate and he's 6-15 at Ohio St. Now do I think he's a failure as a HC, no. I think Ohio St is a bad program in a conference that doesn't care about baseball. But it just goes to show you, even these can't miss candidates have to be dropped into the right situation. I mean do you think Tony Vitello would be just as successful at Mizzou as he is at Tennessee? No. Mizzou doesn't give a rip about baseball and wouldn't give a rip whether they were 0-50 or 50-0. Now once they are dropped into the situation they have to produce, but they most likely will if they're given the resources to do that. Vitello was handed the keys at Tennessee and they gave him free reign and an almost unlimited budget.

[Santiago]

Well that's the bad thing. We don't know if any of them will be better. They could end up being worse. I mean Justin Haire was the sure fire can't miss, he'd have us competing in Yr 1 candidate and he's 6-15 at Ohio St. Now do I think he's a failure as a HC, no. I think Ohio St is a bad program in a conference that doesn't care about baseball. But it just goes to show you, even these can't miss candidates have to be dropped into the right situation. I mean do you think Tony Vitello would be just as successful at Mizzou as he is at Tennessee? No. Mizzou doesn't give a rip about baseball and wouldn't give a rip whether they were 0-50 or 50-0. Now once they are dropped into the situation they have to produce, but they most likely will if they're given the resources to do that. Vitello was handed the keys at Tennessee and they gave him free reign and an almost unlimited budget.

For Justin Haire at OSU, I don't see how we can judge him year one there, when they have been so bad. Other than the portal, it takes a couple of years to get your guys going in a program and I doubt OSU is buying in on baseball NIL for him.
He is a good coach, and for what he did at Campbell, evaluating talent and building it, he deserves that benefit of the doubt.

[preachermatt83]

Why would he be a HR hire? Genuinely curious because nothing on his record screams HR hire. Without winning the conference tournament he would've made the NCAA tournament 1 time in the last 4 years and he's a .500 coach in the NCAAT. Like what screams HR hire about that? I'm being serious. I'm not trying to say you're wrong just genuinely curious what y'all see in the guy. That's why I didn't add him to the initial list.

That?s my biggest issue. Anything that took place before like Covid, is pretty much not even worth looking at. Nothing pre nil/transfer portal era can be trusted. It?s an entirely new world of recruiting and even coaching to an extent. It?s stink. I hate it like this. But it?s just the facts of the matter regarding collegiate athletics. I think pollard is a good coach. In this era though, I?m concerned that the book may still be out on him

[cheewgumm]

I think it's probably a good time to fire this thing up. We can all see where this is headed and it's to Lemonis being replaced. With that being said, let's get the Hot Board going!!

Unrealistic But You Have to Make The Call

1. Link Jarrett-Wish we could've gotten him 3 years ago but he's now at his alma mater. But hey, our people leave their alma mater all the time. So why not give it a try? Guy has won everywhere.

2. Erik Bakich-The guy took Michigan to the CWS finals and has Clemson back rolling again. He'd probably be at the top of my list if I felt like we could realistically get him.

3. Mitch Canham-Again, you run into the alma mater situation but he's kept Oregon St steady after Pat. There's also so much uncertainty around them and how they're going to be able to compete at the D1 level without a conference so maybe you play that card.

4. Wes Johnson-He is not coming here. I will preface it with that. His wife HATED Starkville when he was here for his one year. But hey, make the call and throw a good salary at him. Maybe UGA will decide he's not worth it.

5. Butch Thompson-He's been up and down at Auburn but he has two CWS appearances at a school that had 4 all time prior to his arrival. He seems to know how to work the portal and he's the de facto PC. The Foxhall part of it would be weird, but I doubt he'd bring him. Also would be a giant 17 you to Cohen.


Realistic Hires

1. Rob Vaughn-He's winning at Bama for christ sake and won at Maryland before that. The guys IDs talent and builds prgorams as good as any coach. Look no further that what he has done with Justin LeBron.

2. Jordan Bischel-Had CMU as a real power at the G5 level and is building Cincinnati back, yes CINCINNATI, at an incredible pace. I have been a fan of his since the 2019 regional in Starkville. His teams play with less than zero fear no matter who they are playing and they stay loose. A stark contrast from our current team.

3. Skylar Meade-Has really done well at Troy. Has them in the Top 25 this year and seems to have that program in a great spot.

4. Mark Wasikowski-I am not as big a fan of his as others. He seems a little like Lemonis to me. But he has been solid at Oregon. Back to back Supers.

5. Skip Johnson-Pulling on Selmon's OU connections here. I think you could get him and get him without too much of a fight from OU. They don't really seem to prioritize baseball and he's done really well there.

6. Chris Pollard-Pretty consistent at Duke but nothing to really write home about. 3 Supers in 12 years is not exactly great.

Assts

1. Nate Thompson-I think this would have been the hire had we gone the asst route in 2019. His name has cooled a bit since but he's still one of the best recruiters in the country. He also seems to have altered their hitting approach this year and it has made them a better team.

2. Josh Elander-Seems to be the odds on favorite this time if we go this route. Been with Vitello since the beginning at Tennessee. And they swing tree trunks at the plate. The worry with him is that I think people will think we're getting a Vitello clone and that's just not the truth.

3. Will Coggin-Played here and was an asst under Cohen. A lot of people credit him with our hitting jump from 15 to 16. Went with Mingione to UK and is now with Wes at UGA. If we're going asst route, I would pick him or Thompson. He's known as a giant asshole so he probably won't be kissing babies and signing baseballs for kids, but he wins and recruits at a high level.

Candidates That People Mention That We ARE NOT Hiring

1. Dan Heefner-He's not leaving DBU. He's had multiple opportunities and been offered multiple HIGH LEVEL P4 jobs and turned them all down. He's not coming.

2. Tony Vitello-No. And btw, we actually have fans who think hiring him is realistic. I am not kidding on that.


Candidates That Will Win But We Have To Lock Them In Their Office With No Cell Phone

1. Andy Cannizarro-Give me the boxing gloves and spiked shoulder pads. Give me the stupid mirror selfies from the gym at 5 AM. But also, give me the guy that never said die with a team that had POSITION PLAYERS STARTING SEC GAMES. Give me the guy that recruited Tanner Allen, Landon Sims, Logan Tanner, Justin Foscue, and Jordan Westburg.


Thank you for putting together.

[cheewgumm]

Biggest surprise in this thread to me is that Wes Johnson is married.

[Todd4State]

Again though, what does he bring to the table that makes him a HR hire? I am not trying to say he's not a good hire. Just trying to understand what makes him such a can't miss. Is it just that he's done good at a historically down program? I mean that's good, but that doesn't exactly make him can't miss. And maybe y'all are just saying HR candidate because you think he's the best of the most realistic candidates.

You may have missed my other response.

You should look him up. He has won at App State and Duke- two essentially impossible places to win at. He has produced MLB players like Marcus Stroman. His staff is really good and has a ton of recruiting connections with scouts and PG.

If you give a guy like that our resources he is going to win big here.

It's not just Pollard- it's his staff. His hitting coach is elite. I'm looking at the whole picture of what the entire staff would be.

[Todd4State]

I'm just going to add this- not directed at anyone in particular, because I've seen several people talk about "realistic" candidates.

If we're going to fire a coach that we're paying 1.25 million dollars who has won a NC for not meeting our standards then we should have no trouble hiring a coach that is a big name.

Because you can't say that we have really high standards and then "Oh we can't hire a guy that's the head coach of Duke, Alabama, Cincinnati, etc."

John Cohen won't be running this coaching search.

[confucius say]

Selmon isn't comfortable making a baseball hire. His words. Take it fwiw

[StarkVegasSteve]

Selmon isn't comfortable making a baseball hire. His words. Take it fwiw

Would not surprise me one bit. Baseball has never been a priority at schools he's been at.

[State82]

I'm looking at the whole picture of what the entire staff would be.

And this is very critical. You have to know what you are getting from that standpoint and you have to pay them well (which we obviously do).

[Coach34]

There is more prestige as far as baseball is concerned at MSU. He won't have to compete with football as much as far as booster support goes at MSU. And we can pay more if we really want him.

Bama has way more money than us. They’ll spend it if they want. He’s already at 900K and hasn’t really done anything there yet. He’s not leaving Bama for Sville

[Todd4State]

Bama has way more money than us. They’ll spend it if they want. He’s already at 900K and hasn’t really done anything there yet. He’s not leaving Bama for Sville

Yeah but they spend that money on football- not baseball. Byrne won't go over 1.5 to keep him.

[Todd4State]

And this is very critical. You have to know what you are getting from that standpoint and you have to pay them well (which we obviously do).

That's my biggest concern with Elander.

Now when he gets a head coaching job and proves that he can manage a team and run a program then I think he might be a good candidate then.

[Todd4State]

Would not surprise me one bit. Baseball has never been a priority at schools he's been at.

Is he the one that's really making the choice though?

If he has any brains- and I think he does- he will probably put together some kind of committee to advise him.

We have a ton of good baseball connections- it would be idiotic to not use them.

[StarkVegasSteve]

Yeah but they spend that money on football- not baseball. Byrne won't go over 1.5 to keep him.

And we don't need to go near that high to get him. We're not hiring some guy who's been in Omaha a bunch. Offer 1.1-1.2 and he bites, great. If he doesn't then we move on. We can't get into a bidding war for a sport that loses 3 million a year.

[StarkVegasSteve]

Is he the one that's really making the choice though?

If he has any brains- and I think he does- he will probably put together some kind of committee to advise him.

We have a ton of good baseball connections- it would be idiotic to not use them.

And he will. He'll also use his connections in the Athletic admin world. Zac is an extremely smart guy. He will be prepared when the time comes. I was just saying that he may not be comfortable being like Cohen and running a baseball search by himself.

[Todd4State]

And we don't need to go near that high to get him. We're not hiring some guy who's been in Omaha a bunch. Offer 1.1-1.2 and he bites, great. If he doesn't then we move on. We can't get into a bidding war for a sport that loses 3 million a year.

1.5 was the top. We could offer 1.1 first- but if we think he is the right guy we are the program we think we are- we certainly can go to 1.5.

I wonder how much of that 3 million loss is on the baseball stadium mortgage?

[EdwardDrayton]

Selmon isn't comfortable making a baseball hire. His words. Take it fwiw

And that's not an issue. Leaders don't have to know about everything. They are just smart enough to know to pull in resources that do know all there is to know about that one endeavor. In this case a college baseball hire.

[EdwardDrayton]

Bama has way more money than us. They’ll spend it if they want. He’s already at 900K and hasn’t really done anything there yet. He’s not leaving Bama for Sville

That's too simplistic. There are so many other variables besides money that MAY cause a coach to consider another job. Cast the line and see if there is a nibble. You never know.

[Coach34]

That's too simplistic. There are so many other variables besides money that MAY cause a coach to consider another job. Cast the line and see if there is a nibble. You never know.

Oh I'm not saying we shouldnt check with his agent but its very unlikely he would jump. We dont offer anything that Bama doesnt

[The Federalist Engineer]

Decision Science: The Power of Doing Nothing

(1) Imagine in 2018 College World Series is over. You don't have an elite coach hired or interested. All you have is a mutt from Indiana interested. In Starkville, you have a coach that just got you to top-4 in Omaha. So you just roll another year. Do nothing but hire the best PC in the nation for Gary Henderson.
(2) In 2019 Gary Henderson takes you to Omaha again. Now you have a young Tennessee coach that is already recruiting better-than-you as an interested candidate but Vitello meets the Cohen family and throws-up. Henderson takes you to the top-4 again. Now you have more than mutts interested.
(3) In 2020, COVID do nothing
(4) Win the NC in 2021 with Gary Henderson, Cohen, his Weird Wife, and their off-putting-personality move to Auburn. Henderson Retires and you hire Vitello that summer.
(5) Omaha in 2022
(6) Omaha in 2023
(7) Win the NC in 2024 and we are now we are bored of winning and are mad that Texas tried to Snag Vitello.

Today, Lemons is fatiguing even the most low self-esteem MSU fans. Just start interviewing agents and get rid of Lemons and Cheese on Monday (3/21/2025) and upgrade Goat or Parker and see what-the-heck happens. You get 21 SEC games to see how they run a program. I bet both are likely better than Lemons and you spend almost no money. Then:

(1) If Goat or Parker spark the team, then we win.
(2) If Goat or Parker don't spark the team, oh well, it's not like Lemons was any better. Nobody is going to miss the "CEO Coach".

If you can get the guy you want in 2025, Rob Vaughn or Wes Johnson, then you hire them. Otherwise keep rolling with Goat or Parker. But I think either one would do just fine. This is a major decision factor, MSU is not getting creamed in these 2025 games. This is the most competitive 1-6 SEC record I have seen (thus far). In all the significant 2025 losses- one hit, one pitch, one inning, and/or one At-Bat made the difference. Just letting a competent Starkville 10th grader coach 3rd Base would be worth 1-run per game.

[BrunswickDawg]

I'm sitting in the Dugout Club in Athens watching UGA mashing the ball and play mistake free thinking "bring Will and Ammo home"

[The Federalist Engineer]

I'm sitting in the Dugout Club in Athens watching UGA mashing the ball and play mistake free thinking "bring Will and Ammo home"

Unless MSU makes some improvements they may kiss all the fans good bye. Sounds like you can slide into a UGA situation.

I could not. I will become a bitter hater. But I could watch non-MSU sports, college hockey and college ski is a ready substitute for me. Hockey is pure intensity. College Ski is awesome and the scenery is without parallel.

[Thick]

Selmon isn't comfortable making a baseball hire. His words. Take it fwiw

Well damn, someone invite him to this board so yall can point him in the right direction! Boom problem solved

[KB21]

College baseball is very much unlike the other sports. You don't see very many coaches who hop around to get jobs in college baseball. Brian O'Connor was mentioned earlier. He's been at UVA for 20 something odd years. He has turned down numerous opportunities to leave UVA. The shine is off him now, but Dan McDonnell was "the top guy" the last time we had a search, and he turned us along with many others down. There's no chance you get him if you fire Chris Lemonis, but Dan seems to be having similar issues at Louisville. You can forget about getting Tony Vitello, Dave Van Horn, or anyone else like that.

It's very clear that this program needs to be reinvigorated with new energy. We have a damn good recruiting class that will be coming in next year on top of the class we just had. We need a head coach who takes a modern approach to baseball as well when it comes to recruiting, player development, lineup optimization, and pitching optimization.

[KB21]

https://uga.rivals.com/news/talking-hitting-with-georgia-s-will-coggin?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly90LmNvLw&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAADyn-vUwOFr81ahlHkAwQc5b52ew2L9E-m7UK6LHk38dzzAlrM4Zk4jIqFp46pGNSOc-hcxQ5C4Jzk_xQYl1qifeOyY0o37toVgudu-i-_EOjQmOA-rMM7YWZCdC17RCbxUKyKfe5y1MZEhzdYXehAq8Aq9TONzaPApv IX4yR5fH

[msudawg1200]

Selmon isn't comfortable making a baseball hire. His words. Take it fwiw

Then why in the hell did we hire him? He's the Director of Athletics which baseball falls under. It's part of his job, a major part here with baseball, to have to hire coaches. If he indeed did say that what a clown, and we are a clown show for hiring him.

[Todd4State]

Then why in the hell did we hire him? He's the Director of Athletics which baseball falls under. It's part of his job, a major part here with baseball, to have to hire coaches. If he indeed did say that what a clown, and we are a clown show for hiring him.

That's a good point.

[Cowbell]

Selmon isn't comfortable making a baseball hire. His words. Take it fwiw

Can you give some context here

[Pancho]

sound like he needs a baseball expert to point him in the right direction. someone the polar opposite of cohen would be a good start.

[BrunswickDawg]

https://uga.rivals.com/news/talking-hitting-with-georgia-s-will-coggin?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly90LmNvLw&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAADyn-vUwOFr81ahlHkAwQc5b52ew2L9E-m7UK6LHk38dzzAlrM4Zk4jIqFp46pGNSOc-hcxQ5C4Jzk_xQYl1qifeOyY0o37toVgudu-i-_EOjQmOA-rMM7YWZCdC17RCbxUKyKfe5y1MZEhzdYXehAq8Aq9TONzaPApv IX4yR5fH

Just spent 3 games watching UGA and Auburn sitting with some of their big donors. Their consensus is that Coggin is the next great coach and will be gone after this year or next. Charlie Condon gives him huge praise for helping produce the season he had last year - and I heard that straight from Charlie's Dad (yesterday happened to be Condon Bobblehead day and he threw out the first pitch). Their big transfer Zaborowski (who is hitting .440 with 14 HR) came specifically to work with Coggin.

Watching him for 2 days - I think he's there. People may not want to give it to a first time guy - but he's going to be very good and if it's not us, I think we will wind up regretting it.

[Coursesuper]

Just spent 3 games watching UGA and Auburn sitting with some of their big donors. Their consensus is that Coggin is the next great coach and will be gone after this year or next. Charlie Condon gives him huge praise for helping produce the season he had last year - and I heard that straight from Charlie's Dad (yesterday happened to be Condon Bobblehead day and he threw out the first pitch). Their big transfer Zaborowski (who is hitting .440 with 14 HR) came specifically to work with Coggin.

Watching him for 2 days - I think he's there. People may not want to give it to a first time guy - but he's going to be very good and if it's not us, I think we will wind up regretting it.

He seems to fit what is needed to succeed here. And he’s one of our own so the sale to the public will not be difficult.

[Pancho]

Really, I've heard Coggin be bashed on ED plenty over the years.

[Quaoarsking]

I'd be OK with hiring Coggin if we look into some more experienced people first and it doesn't work out, but we need to set it up that we pay him a top 10 salary, but with low or not buyout if he sucks and we have to fire him.

[KB21]

Just spent 3 games watching UGA and Auburn sitting with some of their big donors. Their consensus is that Coggin is the next great coach and will be gone after this year or next. Charlie Condon gives him huge praise for helping produce the season he had last year - and I heard that straight from Charlie's Dad (yesterday happened to be Condon Bobblehead day and he threw out the first pitch). Their big transfer Zaborowski (who is hitting .440 with 14 HR) came specifically to work with Coggin.

Watching him for 2 days - I think he's there. People may not want to give it to a first time guy - but he's going to be very good and if it's not us, I think we will wind up regretting it.

Agree.

[EdwardDrayton]

sound like he needs a baseball expert to point him in the right direction. someone the polar opposite of cohen would be a good start.

Shame on Zac if he hasn't been preparing for this for awhile.

[KOdawg1]

I've changed my stance on this the last few weeks/months.

I was totally against hiring a first time HC. But with us having to buy Lemon out and to avoid sinking any more money in a non-revenue sport, just throw $600k at Josh Elander and call it a day.

[BrunswickDawg]

I'd be OK with hiring Coggin if we look into some more experienced people first and it doesn't work out, but we need to set it up that we pay him a top 10 salary, but with low or not buyout if he sucks and we have to fire him.

Coggin has a far better resume than Cann did when we hired him - and we have people who still want that clown back.

[The Federalist Engineer]

Then why in the hell did we hire him? He's the Director of Athletics which baseball falls under. It's part of his job, a major part here with baseball, to have to hire coaches. If he indeed did say that what a clown, and we are a clown show for hiring him.

He's more comfortable with football? He hired a shitty football coach. So just fire Selmon too. Wreck his resume like he messed up MSU. I don't want this dude picking the next baseball coach anyway.

[The Federalist Engineer]

Just spent 3 games watching UGA and Auburn sitting with some of their big donors. Their consensus is that Coggin is the next great coach and will be gone after this year or next. Charlie Condon gives him huge praise for helping produce the season he had last year - and I heard that straight from Charlie's Dad (yesterday happened to be Condon Bobblehead day and he threw out the first pitch). Their big transfer Zaborowski (who is hitting .440 with 14 HR) came specifically to work with Coggin.

Watching him for 2 days - I think he's there. People may not want to give it to a first time guy - but he's going to be very good and if it's not us, I think we will wind up regretting it.

I'd be ok with Coggin(s) or Elander(s). Rather have Wes Johnson or Rob Vaughn though.

[MoreCowbell]

There is more prestige as far as baseball is concerned at MSU. He won't have to compete with football as much as far as booster support goes at MSU. And we can pay more if we really want him.

We could not pay more in a bidding war. NIL era Bama a better job especially from a Coaches point of view. Just is.

[AlSwearengen]

I need to be convinced that Coggin shouldn?t get a very hard look and be in the first small group of candidates. Kentucky is back in the shitter and Ga is in the top 5 and raking. He gets high praise from Rooker and Lowe, as well as others.

[cheewgumm]

I could not disagree more that Bama baseball is a better job than State.

How?

That is insane to me.

You guys are totally discounting fan support and field, which you shouldn?t.

I hope Selman doesn?t think like this, because it is wrong.

Money is one thing. Money ain?t everything.

[sandjunky]

Coggin has a far better resume than Cann did when we hired him - and we have people who still want that clown back.

I?d take that clown (2017 version) over what we have now - he could at least identify SEC talent

[cheewgumm]

We could not pay more in a bidding war. NIL era Bama a better job especially from a Coaches point of view. Just is.

No it?s not.

Unless you like playing on front of 5 k most days.

[sandjunky]

I could not disagree more that Bama baseball is a better job than State.

How?

That is insane to me.

You guys are totally discounting fan support and field, which you shouldn?t.

I hope Selman doesn?t think like this, because it is wrong.

Money is one thing. Money ain?t everything.

Maybe not now but the people in Alabama are starting to wake up to what they could have and they have the resources to make it happen

[sandjunky]

I could not disagree more that Bama baseball is a better job than State.

How?

That is insane to me.

You guys are totally discounting fan support and field, which you shouldn?t.

I hope Selman doesn?t think like this, because it is wrong.

Money is one thing. Money ain?t everything.

And the field to HS players and portal players matters much less today - it?s about $ and who can provide me the best opportunity to get to the next level

What good does the field and fan experience provide if the coaches don?t help me get to the next phase of my career?

[StateDawg44]

Maybe not now but the people in Alabama are starting to wake up to what they could have and they have the resources to make it happen

According to what?

All they care about is football and now basketball.

[sandjunky]

According to what?

All they care about is football and now basketball.
According to the HS coaches I?m around and know throughout the state

[DEDawg]

Then why in the hell did we hire him? He's the Director of Athletics which baseball falls under. It's part of his job, a major part here with baseball, to have to hire coaches. If he indeed did say that what a clown, and we are a clown show for hiring him.

I don?t think what he said is necessarily a bad thing. All good leaders know where their expertise lies and where to bring in outside help. All of them.

My biggest gripe every single coaching search is reading about how we have boosters and good ole boys and everyone in the AD ear. If Selmon ends up saying Baseball isn?t my expertise and I am doing a full professional national search with outside help and they all report up to me with facts and recommendations then I am ecstatic. That is the way coaching searches should be run.

[cheewgumm]

There won?t be 15k people at a. BAMA baseball game in o ur lifetime .

This is nonsensical.

[cheewgumm]

According to the HS coaches I?m around and know throughout the state

How do I do a HUGE eye roll emoji?

[cheewgumm]

And the field to HS players and portal players matters much less today - it?s about $ and who can provide me the best opportunity to get to the next level

What good does the field and fan experience provide if the coaches don?t help me get to the next phase of my career?

We should compare MLB draft picks then.

Let me know what you find.

[cheewgumm]

I?d call the Bama coach and give him one offer.

If he said no, I?d tell him have fun playing in front of 4-5k people every day. Enjoy it.

When he?s ready for the big time, call us.

You can pay all the players you wants there will still be 5k in the stands ( see Tennessee).

[cheewgumm]

Bottom line

1- we had the most players drafted last year of any school (I think. Or were one of the top)

2- we have the best stadium

3- we have the most fans

4- we are competitive NIL

5- have the best or one of best traditions

If Lemojis can?t sell that and make us champions them GTFO.

[RezDog7]

I?d call the Bama coach and give him one offer.

If he said no, I?d tell him have fun playing in front of 4-5k people every day. Enjoy it.

When he?s ready for the big time, call us.

You can pay all the players you wants there will still be 5k in the stands ( see Tennessee).

It's crazy to me that the same people who shit on the number of fans at a baseball game also bitch about the lack of fans at football games. If there is one thing msu supports 100%, it's baseball. And we shouldn't be ashamed of it. I don't even care that way feed the other team. We've created an environment at baseball games that others should envy.

[cheewgumm]

To add?

If we wanted the little guy at Georgia I?d tell him the same thing.

They average 3k fans.

Pathetic.

They are not serious about baseball.

If he thinks UGA is a better job, he?s delusional.

[BuckyIsAB****]

Then why in the hell did we hire him? He's the Director of Athletics which baseball falls under. It's part of his job, a major part here with baseball, to have to hire coaches. If he indeed did say that what a clown, and we are a clown show for hiring him.

It?s the same president that was so lazy he didnt have an AD to hire a coach when Leach passed. The rest is shit history

[Todd4State]

We could not pay more in a bidding war. NIL era Bama a better job especially from a Coaches point of view. Just is.

There is a difference between "could" and "would".

[Todd4State]

I need to be convinced that Coggin shouldn?t get a very hard look and be in the first small group of candidates. Kentucky is back in the shitter and Ga is in the top 5 and raking. He gets high praise from Rooker and Lowe, as well as others.

Coggin would probably be a better fit for MSU than Elander. He understands MSU baseball and the culture here.

I would still prefer someone with experience like Vaughn. Coggin should get a head coaching job somewhere soon.

[StarkVegasSteve]

Coggin would probably be a better fit for MSU than Elander. He understands MSU baseball and the culture here.

I would still prefer someone with experience like Vaughn. Coggin should get a head coaching job somewhere soon.

I would peg Will Coggin a little higher on your list at this point. I think he'll be near the top of the list, if not in the top 2, when the move is made. I don't get the feeling Selmon will be looking West Coast.

[State82]

I would peg Will Coggin a little higher on your list at this point. I think he'll be near the top of the list, if not in the top 2, when the move is made. I don't get the feeling Selmon will be looking West Coast.

Realistically who would you think will be the top 2-3. Not necessarily who you would prefer but who the administration would likely put in the top 3 choices. Other than Coggin.

[StarkVegasSteve]

Realistically who would you think will be the top 2-3. Not necessarily who you would prefer but who the administration would likely put in the top 3 choices. Other than Coggin.

REALISTICALLY IN NO PARTICULAR ORDER:

1. Skylar Meade-Troy

2. Jordan Bischel-Cincinnati

3. Chris Pollard-Duke

4. Will Coggin-UGA Hitting Coach

5. Josh Elander-Tennessee Hitting Coach


Again, that's realistically and I just listed the HCs first. I think Coggin is above at least one of them. HCs just don't move around. You probably could add Justin Haire to the list because I'm sure he'll get his name involved. I don't think we're looking west coast and it will take really good offers to pull a sitting P4 HC like Rob Vaughn, Eric Bakich, etc. Also I will just prepare everyone, Cliff Godwin is going to get his name in the mix and then turn us down. It's nothing more than him doing that. When he gets the OM job, he wants it to look like he turned State down multiple times to wait for the OM job to open.

[Coach34]

There won?t be 15k people at a. BAMA baseball game in o ur lifetime .

This is nonsensical.

So what? Thats more about State fans. Players now are about NIL, development, and location. Guys today would rather live in Tuscaloosa and play in front of 4K than live in Sville and play in front of 12K. Players are taking less NIL money to go to other schools because they dont want to live in Sville. The next coach will have to fight that fight also

Too many of our fans still dont understand NIL in 2022 changed everything for Miss State and most of it for the worse.

[AlSwearengen]

without diving deep into any of the candidates (because i don't have time or patience), on the surface, Coggin has flashing lights above his name. Our offense was really good when he was here. Kentucky's offense and recruiting was good when he was there. Now, Georgia's lineup and offense is top tier in their second season. If he is the recruiter that it appears that he is and can teach hitting the way it appears he can, he is hard to pass up in my book.

Again, this is what things look like from way above and some that know alot more than me might have good information and insight that I don't.

Also, I'm past holding out for a sitting head coach. These young guys are where it is at as long as they are mature enough.

[KB21]

REALISTICALLY IN NO PARTICULAR ORDER:

1. Skylar Meade-Troy

2. Jordan Bischel-Cincinnati

3. Chris Pollard-Duke

4. Will Coggin-UGA Hitting Coach

5. Josh Elander-Tennessee Hitting Coach


Again, that's realistically and I just listed the HCs first. I think Coggin is above at least one of them. HCs just don't move around. You probably could add Justin Haire to the list because I'm sure he'll get his name involved. I don't think we're looking west coast and it will take really good offers to pull a sitting P4 HC like Rob Vaughn, Eric Bakich, etc. Also I will just prepare everyone, Cliff Godwin is going to get his name in the mix and then turn us down. It's nothing more than him doing that. When he gets the OM job, he wants it to look like he turned State down multiple times to wait for the OM job to open.

Probably an accurate list. The interesting thing about Skylar Meade is that he was a player for McDonnell and Lemonis at Louisville. His coaching style seems to be a bit different though. He's a pitching coach by trade, and he's very involved with his pitchers. From a hitting standpoint, Troy has taken an aggressive and power-oriented approach that is complemented by speed and situational adaptability.

[DawgFromOxford]

So what? Thats more about State fans. Players now are about NIL, development, and location. Guys today would rather live in Tuscaloosa and play in front of 4K than live in Sville and play in front of 12K. Players are taking less NIL money to go to other schools because they dont want to live in Sville. The next coach will have to fight that fight also

Too many of our fans still dont understand NIL in 2022 changed everything for Miss State and most of it for the worse.

Do you have actual proof of this happening multiple times or is this just an assumption? (not saying you?re wrong, genuinely asking). From an NIL and development standpoint, we should be fairly competitive (with the right coach in place).

Then to me it seems its a matter of would you rather be a Jake Mangum and be the king of Starkville for 4 years or just another athlete in Tuscaloosa but you have more bars to go to

[cheewgumm]

So what? Thats more about State fans. Players now are about NIL, development, and location. Guys today would rather live in Tuscaloosa and play in front of 4K than live in Sville and play in front of 12K. Players are taking less NIL money to go to other schools because they dont want to live in Sville. The next coach will have to fight that fight also

Too many of our fans still dont understand NIL in 2022 changed everything for Miss State and most of it for the worse.

I don?t misunderstand NIL because I disagree.

I?ll agree to disagree.

[Santiago]

So what? Thats more about State fans. Players now are about NIL, development, and location. Guys today would rather live in Tuscaloosa and play in front of 4K than live in Sville and play in front of 12K. Players are taking less NIL money to go to other schools because they dont want to live in Sville. The next coach will have to fight that fight also

Too many of our fans still dont understand NIL in 2022 changed everything for Miss State and most of it for the worse.

So....is NW Arkansas and Eastern TN just a college baseball hotbed of HS talent? ***
Ole Miss has a shortstop from NY . I guess home is where the heart is. ***

[cheewgumm]

What are current college baseball recruiting rankings?

Where Do we rank?

I honestly have no clue.

[KB21]

What are current college baseball recruiting rankings?

Where Do we rank?

I honestly have no clue.

Class of 2025 according to Perfect Game is 5th in the country.

[cheewgumm]

Class of 2025 according to Perfect Game is 5th in the country.

The hell u say

[ZedFedder]

Our HS recruiting is top notch right now. I just do not trust Lemonis to coach them up.

[RezDog7]

So what? Thats more about State fans. Players now are about NIL, development, and location. Guys today would rather live in Tuscaloosa and play in front of 4K than live in Sville and play in front of 12K. Players are taking less NIL money to go to other schools because they dont want to live in Sville. The next coach will have to fight that fight also

Too many of our fans still dont understand NIL in 2022 changed everything for Miss State and most of it for the worse.

Tuscaloosa is a shit hole.

[Santiago]

Class of 2025 according to Perfect Game is 5th in the country.

They seemingly must all live in the surrounding counties of Starkville ***

[cheewgumm]

We also sent more players to the draft than anyone.

So ?

1) we are one of the top 5 recruiters on the country (this is also while we are sucking)

2) we sent more players to the draft last year than anyone.

Yet, nobody wants to come here because we don?t pay enough. The facts say otherwise.

What am I misunderstanding?

[cheewgumm]

Tuscaloosa is a shit hole.

As is Baton Rouge

[Coach34]

Some of you refuse to look thru the eyes of a 20 year old. Of course how you see things at 40/50/60 is different

[cheewgumm]

Some of you refuse to look thru the eyes of a 20 year old. Of course how you see things at 40/50/60 is different

Then why are we ranked so high in recruiting?

[StarkVegasSteve]

Tuscaloosa is a shit hole.

But they have more than 4 bars. Like we all love Starkville, but it's because we're Mississippi State fans. Would you like it if you were a 18-22 year old who had no attachment to Starkville? That's what Mississippi State has to figure out. And not just athletically, we have to figure that out as a University. How do we expand our reach to get people to campus? How do we expand our footprint to Dallas, Atlanta, Nashville, Charleston, etc.? Because that's how you start changing the perception. And that's what we need. A national perception change. Ole Miss has been able to do that and is capitalizing off of it.

[Coach34]

We also sent more players to the draft than anyone.

So ?

1) we are one of the top 5 recruiters on the country (this is also while we are sucking)

2) we sent more players to the draft last year than anyone.

Yet, nobody wants to come here because we don?t pay enough. The facts say otherwise.

What am I misunderstanding?

Recruiting HS and recruiting portal are 2 different animals.

[cheewgumm]

Some of you refuse to look thru the eyes of a 20 year old. Of course how you see things at 40/50/60 is different


But they have more than 4 bars. Like we all love Starkville, but it's because we're Mississippi State fans. Would you like it if you were a 18-22 year old who had no attachment to Starkville? That's what Mississippi State has to figure out. And not just athletically, we have to figure that out as a University. How do we expand our reach to get people to campus? How do we expand our footprint to Dallas, Atlanta, Nashville, Charleston, etc.? Because that's how you start changing the perception. And that's what we need. A national perception change. Ole Miss has been able to do that and is capitalizing off of it.

Then why are we ranked so high in recruiting?

[StarkVegasSteve]

Then why are we ranked so high in recruiting?

Well Harmon and the Parker brothers being ranked so high and all from MS definitely helped us this cycle. Also, Mershon's brother being ranked high helped. I mean that 4 of our top 6 or 7 that had a prior connection to MS and State. And that the end of the day, we're in the SEC. You're going to get some players solely based on that.

[cheewgumm]

Some of you refuse to look thru the eyes of a 20 year old. Of course how you see things at 40/50/60 is different


But they have more than 4 bars. Like we all love Starkville, but it's because we're Mississippi State fans. Would you like it if you were a 18-22 year old who had no attachment to Starkville? That's what Mississippi State has to figure out. And not just athletically, we have to figure that out as a University. How do we expand our reach to get people to campus? How do we expand our footprint to Dallas, Atlanta, Nashville, Charleston, etc.? Because that's how you start changing the perception. And that's what we need. A national perception change. Ole Miss has been able to do that and is capitalizing off of it.


Recruiting HS and recruiting portal are 2 different animals.


Well Harmon and the Parker brothers being ranked so high and all from MS definitely helped us this cycle. Also, Mershon's brother being ranked high helped. I mean that 4 of our top 6 or 7 that had a prior connection to MS and State.

Have we historically been high or is it just this year that we have connections?

[StarkVegasSteve]

Have we historically been high or is it just this year that we have connections?

Under Lemonis we have not been this high. And still may not in the final rankings. Some of those kids could bypass and go to the draft.

Like for example, we were ranked really high with Austin Riley in his class and Blaze Jordan in his. Once they opted for the draft, the ranking fell. Same when we had Austin Hendrick and James Wood committed. And those guys never even took an official to campus. They committed at a camp.

[sandjunky]

Then why are we ranked so high in recruiting?

Perfect Game rankings are metric and how much you spend on your kid going to their showcases

I saw a kid go from a perfect game 7.5 to perfect game 9.5 in 15 months with nearly the same metrics but had attend 8 showcases

That?s been the thing that has gotten Lemonis the most / recruiting too many 5 o?clock players and not enough 7 o?clock guys (dirtbags)

[cheewgumm]

Perfect Game rankings are metric and how much you spend on your kid going to their showcases

I saw a kid go from a perfect game 7.5 to perfect game 9.5 in 15 months with nearly the same metrics but had attend 8 showcases

That?s been the thing that has gotten Lemonis the most / recruiting too many 5 o?clock players and not enough 7 o?clock guys (dirtbags)

If there is another ranking you?d rather use I?m open to it.

I?m just trying to judge this accurately.

I think once we get rid of Lemonis and start winning again, we will recruit even better.

[Coach34]

I think once we get rid of Lemonis and start winning again, we will recruit even better.

and I'm of the mind that I dont think it's a coincidence that State and Mississippi started struggling once NIL permeated college sports. We can still put together good teams- but it's harder now than it was

[HoopsDawg]

Some of you refuse to look thru the eyes of a 20 year old. Of course how you see things at 40/50/60 is different

This is just such a bad take/excuse.

A kid from Miami may not want to live in Starkville but there are plenty of country boys that can play ball that would crawl on glass to play in Starkville. Hell, the best catcher in California just signed with MSU.

I'm sorry you didn't have in friends in Starkville when you were in school and had to drive to Delta State to get laid. And I'm sorry that Starkvegasdawg hates Starkville. But y'all are spewing true BS.

[Coach34]

This is just such a bad take/excuse.

A kid from Miami may not want to live in Starkville but there are plenty of country boys that can play ball that would crawl on glass to play in Starkville. Hell, the best catcher in California just signed with MSU.

I'm sorry you didn't have in friends in Starkville when you were in school and had to drive to Delta State to get laid. And I'm sorry that Starkvegasdawg hates Starkville. But y'all are spewing true BS.

Hilarious. I had many friends at State with quite a few of them on this board- that didnt make Starkville any more fun. Drinking beer and watching BJ Wallace throw darts has its moments- but it's just not what I would call an awesome time. Or sitting around talking drinking beer at a townhouse party with Freebird playing. Or shooting pool and drinking beer at The Landing. Thats just not exciting for alot of college age people. Having to drive to Columbus for a decent time sucked. Starkville is what it is

[KB21]

Baseball America also ranks Mississippi State high. They have Mississippi State 6th in 2025 and currently 9th in 2026.

[HoopsDawg]

Hilarious. I had many friends at State with quite a few of them on this board- that didnt make Starkville any more fun. Drinking beer and watching BJ Wallace throw darts has its moments- but it's just not what I would call an awesome time. Or sitting around talking drinking beer at a townhouse party with Freebird playing. Or shooting pool and drinking beer at The Landing. Thats just not exciting for alot of college age people. Having to drive to Columbus for a decent time sucked. Starkville is what it is

Starkville has changed a lot since the early 90s. But I have to admit, all those things you mentioned sound pretty damn good to me. Especially when you throw in some of the best looking women at any college in the country.

[Santiago]

Big difference between saying players won't come here to play in Starkville, and watching each season base running mistakes and everything else that can be ironed out.

Let's host some regionals, how about it?

[State82]

REALISTICALLY IN NO PARTICULAR ORDER:

1. Skylar Meade-Troy

2. Jordan Bischel-Cincinnati

3. Chris Pollard-Duke

4. Will Coggin-UGA Hitting Coach

5. Josh Elander-Tennessee Hitting Coach

Those seem reasonable and realistic. I think I would lean a little more toward Bischel but would probably be ok with any of them. Whatever it takes to get a change implemented. And as far as Godwin, I would not give him the opportunity.

[HoopsDawg]

Big difference between saying players won't come here to play in Starkville, and watching each season base running mistakes and everything else that can be ironed out.

Let's host some regionals, how about it?

Yep. We are dead last in the SEC in fielding. Base running is a good barometer of a well coached team. And not having roles set by now is atrocious. He's using SEC games as auditions. These things should have been settled weeks ago. And no excuse not to grab a legit starter out of the portal.

[KB21]

Yep. We are dead last in the SEC in fielding. Base running is a good barometer of a well coached team. And not having roles set by now is atrocious. He's using SEC games as auditions. These things should have been settled weeks ago. And no excuse not to grab a legit starter out of the portal.

All of this. When you are losing games on the margins like Mississippi State has this season, all of these aspects play a role. Fielding. Base running. Strategic decisions. When you keep losing close games like they have this season, you have to look at what you are doing on the margins. Because it isn't a talent issue. Saturday's LSU game is the only noncompetitive game this team has played this year. All of the other losses are by 4 runs or less, and the first 7 losses were by a combined 15 runs.

Players will have bad days from time to time. A player like Dylan Cupp will unexpectedly boot a ball or make a bad throw every once in a while. It's the nature of the game. A player may make a base running mistake by being overly aggressive from time to time. However, when it becomes a trend that continues to get you beat, you have to look at coaching and what they are focusing on in practice. When you see things like a pitcher not covering first on a ground ball that is hit between first and second, it makes you wonder what they are doing in PFP practice. We have the types of bats a team needs in the lineup. We have at least 6 hitters, if not 7, who should hit double digit HRs this year and have high slugs. So, when these hitters are consistently getting fooled by spin, it really makes me wonder what we are doing in practice to improve pitch and spin recognition. Are we setting the juggs machine to 95 plus and just hitting fastballs all the time?

[KB21]

Those seem reasonable and realistic. I think I would lean a little more toward Bischel but would probably be ok with any of them. Whatever it takes to get a change implemented. And as far as Godwin, I would not give him the opportunity.

My concern with Bischel is that he seems to rely too much on playing small ball, and I don't think that style has a chance in hell of working in the SEC against teams like Tennessee, Georgia, and Alabama who are coaching their hitters to mash the ball.

[StarkVegasSteve]

Starkville has changed a lot since the early 90s. But I have to admit, all those things you mentioned sound pretty damn good to me. Especially when you throw in some of the best looking women at any college in the country.

And that's what I'm trying to get at with my point since I think you called me out for hating Starkville, even though I give a good amount to NIL and have a damn condo in Starkville so I'm paying those wonderful property taxes. For us, that does sound fun. And it sounded fun when we were 18 as well. What I'm saying is that we knew about Starkville. We're from Mississippi. Our expectations were set. If you were like me, by the time you were a Freshman at Mississippi State you had been on campus and in Starkville, give or take, 100 times.

What I'm saying is that we have to grow our brand. We can't keep counting on people from Clarksdale to come to Mississippi State, go back home to Clarksdale after graduation, and spread the message of Mississippi State far and wide. We have to start recruiting kids from Dallas, Atlanta, Nashville, Charleston, etc. and have them go back after graduation to spread the message. Starkville's problem is one thing PERCEPTION. Is it going to be the greatest college town? Absolutely not. Space wise we are limited with how many spots we can have in the Cotton District unless some of the apartment complexes are torn down. But it can be looked at in more of an Oxford light if you spread the message. We have never attempted to do that. We're too worried about in state students. Ole Miss has a better brand than us because they embraced out of state. Not because Oxford is just that much better than Starkville.

[State82]

My concern with Bischel is that he seems to rely too much on playing small ball, and I don't think that style has a chance in hell of working in the SEC against teams like Tennessee, Georgia, and Alabama who are coaching their hitters to mash the ball.

That is probably correct unless you have three Pico Kohns, a CWS caliber Will Bednar and a Landon Sims.

[StarkVegasSteve]

My concern with Bischel is that he seems to rely too much on playing small ball, and I don't think that style has a chance in hell of working in the SEC against teams like Tennessee, Georgia, and Alabama who are coaching their hitters to mash the ball.

And that's why you interview him because I'm sure that's the first question that will be asked of him. How does your style translate to a league that favors the long ball?

[KB21]

And that's why you interview him because I'm sure that's the first question that will be asked of him. How does your style translate to a league that favors the long ball?

His Cincinnati team also isn't very good this year after getting into the top 25 early on. However, one of the things this team is lacking right now is a swagger/arrogance. That's something that, with the exception of a handful of players, just hasn't been there over the past four seasons. Bischel is a guy that has the kind of swagger/arrogance that we need.

[StarkVegasSteve]

His Cincinnati team also isn't very good this year after getting into the top 25 early on. However, one of the things this team is lacking right now is a swagger/arrogance. That's something that, with the exception of a handful of players, just hasn't been there over the past four seasons. Bischel is a guy that has the kind of swagger/arrogance that we need.

Yea he and his teams generally have an arrogance about them. I mean go back to the 19 Regional and their dugout is chirping at Small the entire time. They also play loose, which we DO NOT right now.

[Todd4State]

And that's what I'm trying to get at with my point since I think you called me out for hating Starkville, even though I give a good amount to NIL and have a damn condo in Starkville so I'm paying those wonderful property taxes. For us, that does sound fun. And it sounded fun when we were 18 as well. What I'm saying is that we knew about Starkville. We're from Mississippi. Our expectations were set. If you were like me, by the time you were a Freshman at Mississippi State you had been on campus and in Starkville, give or take, 100 times.

What I'm saying is that we have to grow our brand. We can't keep counting on people from Clarksdale to come to Mississippi State, go back home to Clarksdale after graduation, and spread the message of Mississippi State far and wide. We have to start recruiting kids from Dallas, Atlanta, Nashville, Charleston, etc. and have them go back after graduation to spread the message. Starkville's problem is one thing PERCEPTION. Is it going to be the greatest college town? Absolutely not. Space wise we are limited with how many spots we can have in the Cotton District unless some of the apartment complexes are torn down. But it can be looked at in more of an Oxford light if you spread the message. We have never attempted to do that. We're too worried about in state students. Ole Miss has a better brand than us because they embraced out of state. Not because Oxford is just that much better than Starkville.

Ole Miss has simply talked up Oxford while simultaneously talking down about Starkville and people at MSU and Starkville did nothing about it for years.

[StarkVegasSteve]

Ole Miss has simply talked up Oxford while simultaneously talking down about Starkville and people at MSU and Starkville did nothing about it for years.

But they've spread that message to Dallas, Austin, Atlanta, Nashville, Charleston, etc. And they've done it for 50+ years. That's the difference. If that message just stays in MS, then no one cares. But because it has spread to Highland Park, University Park, Buckhead, Johns Creek, Greenhills, Sylvan Park, Kiawah Island, and Isle of Palms it is believed as gospel. These wealthy people want to send their kids to "The Harvard of The South". Not Starkpatch. It's all about perception. We've just now started to try and fight that perception. Mostly thanks to Parker Wiseman and Lynn Spruill. They've stepped up and pushed Starkville into the 21st century, despite the objections of Mr. Alcohol is Evil himself Roy Perkins.

[HoopsDawg]

But they've spread that message to Dallas, Austin, Atlanta, Nashville, Charleston, etc. And they've done it for 50+ years. That's the difference. If that message just stays in MS, then no one cares. But because it has spread to Highland Park, University Park, Buckhead, Johns Creek, Greenhills, Sylvan Park, Kiawah Island, and Isle of Palms it is believed as gospel. These wealthy people want to send their kids to "The Harvard of The South". Not Starkpatch. It's all about perception. We've just now started to try and fight that perception. Mostly thanks to Parker Wiseman and Lynn Spruill. They've stepped up and pushed Starkville into the 21st century, despite the objections of Mr. Alcohol is Evil himself Roy Perkins.

Who cares? We aren't going to draw the same type of people that Ole Miss draws (thank goodness). And this thread is about MSU baseball. I promise you Starkville doesn't hinder us from finding 34 dudes to play baseball. Lemonis is signing top high school classes and top portal classes. Recruiting talent is not his problem. He is average at 50 other things.

[StarkVegasSteve]

Who cares? We aren't going to draw the same type of people that Ole Miss draws (thank goodness). And this thread is about MSU baseball. I promise you Starkville doesn't hinder us from finding 34 dudes to play baseball. Lemonis is signing top high school classes and top portal classes. Recruiting talent is not his problem. He is average at 50 other things.

I know what the thread is about, I started it. Recruiting Talent is his problem though. Over half our bullpen is a bunch of mental midgets who crap themselves any time they are put into a high leverage situation. Not to mention the fact that we left 29 people on base this weekend. Mental Toughness is part of talent and we have very little of that.

[HoopsDawg]

I know what the thread is about, I started it. Recruiting Talent is his problem though. Over half our bullpen is a bunch of mental midgets who crap themselves any time they are put into a high leverage situation. Not to mention the fact that we left 29 people on base this weekend. Mental Toughness is part of talent and we have very little of that.

Dude, that has literally nothing to do with Starkville. It has way more to do with his evaluations and laziness on the recruiting trail.

[StarkVegasSteve]

Dude, that has literally nothing to do with Starkville. It has way more to do with his evaluations and laziness on the recruiting trail.

I'm aware. I'm getting back on topic. The Starkville conversation is a whole other entity, which I conveniently started a new thread for. We're back to the hot board and why Lemonis can't recruit talent. You have said Recruiting talent isn't his problem and I refuted that because we have no mental toughness outside of about 5 players.

[Santiago]

Yea he and his teams generally have an arrogance about them. I mean go back to the 19 Regional and their dugout is chirping at Small the entire time. They also play loose, which we DO NOT right now.

I miss the recent years, such as Logan Tanner waving bye after throwing someone out. Only fun when they can back it up.
The teams in the past convinced they cannot lose when wearing a certain uni combo, and they didn't.

[cheewgumm]

No need to debate.

We have recruiting rankings.

[StarkVegasSteve]

I miss the recent years, such as Logan Tanner waving bye after throwing someone out. Only fun when they can back it up.
The teams in the past convinced they cannot lose when wearing a certain uni combo, and they didn't.

Yep. Whether it was Tanner waving goodbye to a runner, Sims staring down Bianco and yelling Our State at him, Ethan Small yelling at EVERY DUGOUT, Bednar with the Horns Down, or the voodoo magic in those all black uniforms we played with so much cockiness and confidence that others thought it was arrogance but it was not. They were just letting you know they were better than you. We do not have any players like that anymore. Our players look terrified in big moments.

[StarkVegasSteve]

No need to debate.

We have recruiting rankings.

Our average recruiting ranking over the last 4 years is between 15-20 depending on what site you use. Do we look like a top 15-20 team at the moment? Safe to say recruiting rankings might be a bit wrong. Some of that is coaching, but some of it is bad evals by our staff and the people evaluating the players.

[HoopsDawg]

You have said Recruiting talent isn't his problem and I refuted that because we have no mental toughness outside of about 5 players.

That's a culture issue.

[cheewgumm]

Our average recruiting ranking over the last 4 years is between 15-20 depending on what site you use. Do we look like a top 15-20 team at the moment? Safe to say recruiting rankings might be a bit wrong. Some of that is coaching, but some of it is bad evals by our staff and the people evaluating the players.

I agree we are not well coached and not taking advantage of talent . That is why the Lemonis era is about to end.

This debate is about can we get recruits to Starkville. We have and are set to again.

Our overall problem has more to do with the athletic department making bad hires and bad decisions and being kind of all around crappy. They just aren?t good.

It?s not Starkville fault they set up a. Huge cowbell and don?t anchor it.

It?s not Starkville fault the app stops working on big game day.

Stuff like that. They just do things poorly.

[StarkVegasSteve]

I agree we are not well coached and not taking advantage of talent . That is why the Lemonis era is about to end.

This debate is about can we get recruits to Starkville. We have and are set to again.

Our overall problem has more to do with the athletic department making bad hires and bad decisions and being kind of all around crappy. They just aren?t good.

It?s not Starkville fault they set up a. Huge cowbell and don?t anchor it.

It?s not Starkville fault the app stops working on big game day.

Stuff like that. They just do things poorly.

Out of all our gameday failures....this really goes above and beyond

[EdwardDrayton]

Yeah. Think we're going to have to let go a bit of this premise we have a bevy of talented players.

Upgrade the coaching and the players. Start with the coach now; whatever detrimental impact that will have short term, let's go ahead and get it behind us.

[KB21]

Mississippi State recruiting rankings according to Baseball America:
2025 - 5th
2024 - 18th
2023 - 7th
2022 - 9th
2021 - 10th

Talent isn't and hasn't been our issue.

[gtowndawg]

But they've spread that message to Dallas, Austin, Atlanta, Nashville, Charleston, etc. And they've done it for 50+ years. That's the difference. If that message just stays in MS, then no one cares. But because it has spread to Highland Park, University Park, Buckhead, Johns Creek, Greenhills, Sylvan Park, Kiawah Island, and Isle of Palms it is believed as gospel. These wealthy people want to send their kids to "The Harvard of The South". Not Starkpatch. It's all about perception. We've just now started to try and fight that perception. Mostly thanks to Parker Wiseman and Lynn Spruill. They've stepped up and pushed Starkville into the 21st century, despite the objections of Mr. Alcohol is Evil himself Roy Perkins.

Ole Miss and Oxford have done a wonderful job marketing themselves. There's nothing wrong with admitting that. We (State/Starkville) can learn a lot from them and we should.

[EdwardDrayton]

Mississippi State recruiting rankings according to Baseball America:
2025 - 5th
2024 - 18th
2023 - 7th
2022 - 9th
2021 - 10th

Talent isn't and hasn't been our issue.

Yeah, nice numbers. Our team is not talented.

[StarkVegasSteve]

Yeah. Think we're going to have to let go a bit of this premise we have a bevy of talented players.

Upgrade the coaching and the players. Start with the coach now; whatever detrimental impact that will have short term, let's go ahead and get it behind us.

Agreed. A new coach is going to need to use the portal anyways so might as well give him a clean slate on it. I imagine we'd keep a few players but most would enter the portal if I had to guess. Who you keep will be dependent on who you hire.

[EdwardDrayton]

Agreed. A new coach is going to need to use the portal anyways so might as well give him a clean slate on it. I imagine we'd keep a few players but most would enter the portal if I had to guess. Who you keep will be dependent on who you hire.

^^^^^^^^

[KB21]

Yeah, nice numbers. Our team is not talented.

Yeah. BA, PG, and Collegiate Baseball are right about everyone else's recruits and are wrong about our recruits. Recruiting rankings appears to be big to some when it fits the narrative they want, but when it doesn't fit the narrative, suddenly the rankings are wrong. Those rankings are also based on who actually gets to campus.

The lowest rated class Mississippi State has had in recent memory is the 2017 class. That class was ranked 24th.

[EdwardDrayton]

Yeah. BA, PG, and Collegiate Baseball are right about everyone else's recruits and are wrong about our recruits. Recruiting rankings appears to be big to some when it fits the narrative they want, but when it doesn't fit the narrative, suddenly the rankings are wrong. Those rankings are also based on who actually gets to campus.

The lowest rated class Mississippi State has had in recent memory is the 2017 class. That class was ranked 24th.

We are not seeing 'talent' correlate to performance on the field. It CANNOT be all coaching.

[StarkVegasSteve]

We are not seeing 'talent' correlate to performance on the field. It CANNOT be all coaching.

Agreed. It's not all coaching. Some of it is evaluations and relying TOO much on analytics. I am not saying don't use analytics, not trying to be Tanner Allen, but I think we get enamored too much with the numbers these kids put up in prospect camps and showcases. I mean when is the last time you saw one of our coaches out at an actual game? It was probably Cohen's staff. I just think we've gone too far towards the analytics side, case and point no one on our team being able to go the other way.

[KB21]

We are not seeing 'talent' correlate to performance on the field. It CANNOT be all coaching.

Then why are some of those players who "don't have talent" proving their talent at the professional level now? KC Hunt with the Brewers. He was their minor league pitcher of the year. Andrew Walling with the Phillies, who couldn't get effective innings at Mississippi State. Jackson Fristoe was in the Arizona Fall League for the Yankees this fall. Eric Cerantola with the Rockies.

[KB21]

Agreed. It's not all coaching. Some of it is evaluations and relying TOO much on analytics. I am not saying don't use analytics, not trying to be Tanner Allen, but I think we get enamored too much with the numbers these kids put up in prospect camps and showcases. I mean when is the last time you saw one of our coaches out at an actual game? It was probably Cohen's staff. I just think we've gone too far towards the analytics side, case and point no one on our team being able to go the other way.

I don't think they use it enough. They clearly don't use analytics and modern player developmental technology the way Tennessee and Georgia do.

[StarkVegasSteve]

Then why are some of those players who "don't have talent" proving their talent at the professional level now? KC Hunt with the Brewers. He was their minor league pitcher of the year. Andrew Walling with the Phillies, who couldn't get effective innings at Mississippi State. Jackson Fristoe was in the Arizona Fall League for the Yankees this fall. Eric Cerantola with the Rockies.

All of those pitchers have one thing in common........Scott Foxhall.

[EdwardDrayton]

All of those pitchers have one thing in common........Scott Foxhall.

Ouch. That's a painful truth.

[StarkVegasSteve]

Ouch. That's a painful truth.

It's actually incredible we won a national championship with him as the PC. By the end of it we essentially had 4 pitchers. Bednar, Harding, Johnson, and Sims.

[KB21]

One more comment about analytics and how baseball coaches use them. If you think we use them too much, just wait until we hire someone like Will Coggin and Josh Elander. You will see a major difference in the use of analytical tools under both of them. I'm not just talking using the better statistics we have available to evaluate player performance such as WAR, wOBA, FIP, xFIP, SIERA, and wRC+. I'm talking about the data analytics that goes into player development. How Will Coggin and Josh Elander are using player tracking technology to improve swing paths while maximizing the power potential of a player. I'm talking about using the same data to maximize spin rate and velocity on pitches like fastball, sliders, and curves. I'm talking about how they can use this data to pair pitches up better for tunneling effect. We have the technology at Mississippi State. I'm not convinced that we are utilizing it to its fullest extent.

[StarkVegasSteve]

One more comment about analytics and how baseball coaches use them. If you think we use them too much, just wait until we hire someone like Will Coggin and Josh Elander. You will see a major difference in the use of analytical tools under both of them. I'm not just talking using the better statistics we have available to evaluate player performance such as WAR, wOBA, FIP, xFIP, SIERA, and wRC+. I'm talking about the data analytics that goes into player development. How Will Coggin and Josh Elander are using player tracking technology to improve swing paths while maximizing the power potential of a player. I'm talking about using the same data to maximize spin rate and velocity on pitches like fastball, sliders, and curves. I'm talking about how they can use this data to pair pitches up better for tunneling effect. We have the technology at Mississippi State. I'm not convinced that we are utilizing it to its fullest extent.

I'm fine with using them. Just use them effectively. We're obviously not doing that. Although it doesn't take analytics to tell me that Hunter Hines needs to use the whole field. I have a pretty good idea of that when the 3B is playing two steps from the second base bag and the SS is playing 2B.

[KB21]

I will also add this. I completely understand where those who think the program is too big for a first-time head coach come from. Hiring a first-time head coach at this program is a risk. I 100% agree.

However, I'm not against it. Why? Because sometimes you have to make a decision whether to take a chance to be great or play it safe and be average. I think with the way college baseball coaches tend to not hop around, hiring an established head coach from a lower-level program may be the safe move, but is it the move that will ensure that we become the perennial national championship contenders we know this program can be? I look at what Tennessee has done under a first-time head coach in Tony Vitello. Yes, he took over a program that was not on the same level as our program when he got that Tennessee job. All he's done is build a perennial national championship contender out of a program that was an also ran program prior to him. He's won 73% of his games since 2018. Look at what Wes Johnson has done with the Georgia baseball program. They are top 5 in the country in his second season.

Everyone wants a Tony Vitello, but to get the next Tony Vitello, you are likely going to have to go the first-time head coach route. Someone like Will Coggin, Josh Elander, or Nate Thompson.

[StarkVegasSteve]

I will also add this. I completely understand where those who think the program is too big for a first-time head coach come from. Hiring a first-time head coach at this program is a risk. I 100% agree.

However, I'm not against it. Why? Because sometimes you have to make a decision whether to take a chance to be great or play it safe and be average. I think with the way college baseball coaches tend to not hop around, hiring an established head coach from a lower-level program may be the safe move, but is it the move that will ensure that we become the perennial national championship contenders we know this program can be? I look at what Tennessee has done under a first-time head coach in Tony Vitello. Yes, he took over a program that was not on the same level as our program when he got that Tennessee job. All he's done is build a perennial national championship contender out of a program that was an also ran program prior to him. He's won 73% of his games since 2018. Look at what Wes Johnson has done with the Georgia baseball program. They are top 5 in the country in his second season.

Everyone wants a Tony Vitello, but to get the next Tony Vitello, you are likely going to have to go the first-time head coach route. Someone like Will Coggin, Josh Elander, or Nate Thompson.

We had Vitello before Vitello with Cann and he was a 1st time HC. It can be done, you just have to hire the right type of personality. Coggin or Elander fit that mold more than Thompson and with Coggin being an alum and on staff here twice, he'd get the nod in that situation.

[KB21]

We had Vitello before Vitello with Cann and he was a 1st time HC. It can be done, you just have to hire the right type of personality. Coggin or Elander fit that mold more than Thompson and with Coggin being an alum and on staff here twice, he'd get the nod in that situation.

I will always believe that Andy threw away a gold mine. I don't know that I have ever seen a better coaching job than what he and that staff did in 2017 with all the arm injuries they had. That was a team that should have been bad, and they went 40-22 and to a super regional with 5 healthy arms on the entire staff.

[Homedawg]

One more comment about analytics and how baseball coaches use them. If you think we use them too much, just wait until we hire someone like Will Coggin and Josh Elander. You will see a major difference in the use of analytical tools under both of them. I'm not just talking using the better statistics we have available to evaluate player performance such as WAR, wOBA, FIP, xFIP, SIERA, and wRC+. I'm talking about the data analytics that goes into player development. How Will Coggin and Josh Elander are using player tracking technology to improve swing paths while maximizing the power potential of a player. I'm talking about using the same data to maximize spin rate and velocity on pitches like fastball, sliders, and curves. I'm talking about how they can use this data to pair pitches up better for tunneling effect. We have the technology at Mississippi State. I'm not convinced that we are utilizing it to its fullest extent.

There's a place for analytics. But it's not the end all be all. He'll just a couple weeks back you were harping, using analytics, that Hines should be on the bench. While he did need a see to see. And he got it. You said it after that sit and continued after the Texas weekend. He's been our best hitter in sec play

[Homedawg]

We had Vitello before Vitello with Cann and he was a 1st time HC. It can be done, you just have to hire the right type of personality. Coggin or Elander fit that mold more than Thompson and with Coggin being an alum and on staff here twice, he'd get the nod in that situation.

Cann was highly overrated.

[StarkVegasSteve]

Cann was highly overrated.

Maybe he was, but he recruited at an elite level and that 17 team had complete buy in and belief.

[KB21]

There's a place for analytics. But it's not the end all be all. He'll just a couple weeks back you were harping, using analytics, that Hines should be on the bench. While he did need a see to see. And he got it. You said it after that sit and continued after the Texas weekend. He's been our best hitter in sec play

I question how long it will last, because we are looking at a very small sample size of him "getting it" finally. We have a much larger sample size of him not being an effective hitter.

[Coach34]

I question how long it will last, because we are looking at a very small sample size of him "getting it" finally. We have a much larger sample size of him not being an effective hitter.

We actually have 2.5 seasons of him being a good hitter with only 1 season of being below par

[BigDawg81]

I know there is not an opening but what are the chances of Lemonis actually getting fired after the season? I do not see anybody saying keep Lemonis other than the mouth breather and we all know who that is.

[KB21]

I know there is not an opening but what are the chances of Lemonis actually getting fired after the season? I do not see anybody saying keep Lemonis other than the mouth breather and we all know who that is.

If things continue as they are, very high.

[Coach34]

If things continue as they are, very high.

Yep. No way to keep him if he misses a Regional

[KB21]

I think that not only does he have to turn the season around, but it also has to be a drastic turnaround. I don't think just making the postseason works this time.

[AlSwearengen]

I will also add this. I completely understand where those who think the program is too big for a first-time head coach come from. Hiring a first-time head coach at this program is a risk. I 100% agree.

However, I'm not against it. Why? Because sometimes you have to make a decision whether to take a chance to be great or play it safe and be average. I think with the way college baseball coaches tend to not hop around, hiring an established head coach from a lower-level program may be the safe move, but is it the move that will ensure that we become the perennial national championship contenders we know this program can be? I look at what Tennessee has done under a first-time head coach in Tony Vitello. Yes, he took over a program that was not on the same level as our program when he got that Tennessee job. All he's done is build a perennial national championship contender out of a program that was an also ran program prior to him. He's won 73% of his games since 2018. Look at what Wes Johnson has done with the Georgia baseball program. They are top 5 in the country in his second season.

Everyone wants a Tony Vitello, but to get the next Tony Vitello, you are likely going to have to go the first-time head coach route. Someone like Will Coggin, Josh Elander, or Nate Thompson.

This post nailed it in my opinion.

[confucius say]

Yeah, nice numbers. Our team is not talented.

We had more players drafted last year than any team in the country. Our 1 and 2 starters were as good as any in the league. Still underachieved.

We have way more talent than 1-8 in the sec.
We have a soft culture.

[Santiago]

Yep. No way to keep him if he misses a Regional

I saw Kendall Rogers on twitter predicted us the number 1 seed in the in the TX A&M regional .
That was clever but sad also.

[EdwardDrayton]

Yep. No way to keep him if he misses a Regional

That's a pretty low bar for keeping him.

[EdwardDrayton]

This post nailed it in my opinion.

But how many times does it NOT work.

[Coach34]

That's a pretty low bar for keeping him.

I’m just saying if he misses a Regional there’s no way you can keep him. At this time he still has money guys in his corner. Gonna let the season play out.

[Homedawg]

Maybe he was, but he recruited at an elite level and that 17 team had complete buy in and belief.

Recruited at a high level?? Bahhahaha he got Tanner Allen. He did that. And with out him we have no shop. So I'll give him credit for that. But let's not go there. You will be shocked w what he got committed. Lem stuck e a bunch of his commits that were trash. He wasn't the elite recruiter the internet leads you to believe it's the opposite

[Turfdawg67]

This post nailed it in my opinion.

If only Cann was focused on just winning baseball games... we'd still have our guy.

[Homedawg]

I question how long it will last, because we are looking at a very small sample size of him "getting it" finally. We have a much larger sample size of him not being an effective hitter.

So you wanted downs in over Hines bc of his "sample size"? Hes never hit ever in sec. And the guys you used numbers on had t either. You use numbers when it's convenient. And now I expect won't hear back from until hunter sucks again and it's coming. It's baseball. But surely analytics will see it right ??

[EdwardDrayton]

Need to settle on a new coach quickly or we need to rename this the Baseball Lukewarm Board.

[Homedawg]

We actually have 2.5 seasons of him being a good hitter with only 1 season of being below par

Amazing the analytic czar skipped that part

[Homedawg]

If things continue as they are, very high.

We can agree w this. But selmon doesn't want to he wants lem to win. Hes spent so much money he needs a money saver. And fact is selmon honestly puts baseball in a standard of ...... well nothing It's not football or men's basketball so. .....

[Homedawg]

If only Cann was focused on just winning baseball games... we'd still have our guy.

Thank god he did. He wasn't the guy

[EdwardDrayton]

I’m just saying if he misses a Regional there’s no way you can keep him. At this time he still has money guys in his corner. Gonna let the season play out.

Seriously though, WHY are they still in his corner??!!?? Do they not see what we see every game??!!??

[Turfdawg67]

Thank god he did. He wasn't the guy

Fair, I trust your opinion.

[Coach34]

Seriously though, WHY are they still in his corner??!!?? Do they not see what we see every game??!!??

Homedawg told you that if he makes a Regional its a very good chance he keeps his job. That means Homedawg has heard from or been told by someone very important that that is the case at this time

[EdwardDrayton]

Homedawg told you that if he makes a Regional its a very good chance he keeps his job. That means Homedawg has heard from or been told by someone very important that that is the case at this time

What important looks like ..........

https://i.postimg.cc/mDt70yXH/IMG-7226.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

[EdwardDrayton]

Sadly Mississippi State has become plagued by painfully ineffectual leadership both internally and externally.

[Todd4State]

Recruited at a high level?? Bahhahaha he got Tanner Allen. He did that. And with out him we have no shop. So I'll give him credit for that. But let's not go there. You will be shocked w what he got committed. Lem stuck e a bunch of his commits that were trash. He wasn't the elite recruiter the internet leads you to believe it's the opposite

I do not understand the Cann love at all. He was all potential. But was a flop. And he doesn't get near the credit for 2022 and 2023 that he deserves because our great baseball fans can't grasp how recruiting cycles work. But hey! He got Tanner Allen. No one talks about how he didn't get Bednar or Sims though.


Seriously though, WHY are they still in his corner??!!?? Do they not see what we see every game??!!??

Because it's baseball and anything can happen. And yes, it doesn't look good and it probably won't end well. Those same boosters have seen MSU do some crazy things when we looked dead in the water. Just look at 2018.

There are a lot of factors that go into the decision of removing a coach and fans kicking and screaming aren't real high on the list.

That said- let's be realistic here. We have 8 weeks left in the season including the SEC tournament. So we're talking 2 months here. Or less really. Memorial Day weekend and this continues and it's over. Then you get what you want. Making Gautreau the coach doesn't help anything. Or Polk 3. It's all the same result because we're cooked.

[Todd4State]

Fair, I trust your opinion.

Hell- he couldn't run a high school team in New Orleans. Eastern Kentucky and New Mexico State didn't want him. I don't see how our fans don't get it.

[Todd4State]

One more comment about analytics and how baseball coaches use them. If you think we use them too much, just wait until we hire someone like Will Coggin and Josh Elander. You will see a major difference in the use of analytical tools under both of them. I'm not just talking using the better statistics we have available to evaluate player performance such as WAR, wOBA, FIP, xFIP, SIERA, and wRC+. I'm talking about the data analytics that goes into player development. How Will Coggin and Josh Elander are using player tracking technology to improve swing paths while maximizing the power potential of a player. I'm talking about using the same data to maximize spin rate and velocity on pitches like fastball, sliders, and curves. I'm talking about how they can use this data to pair pitches up better for tunneling effect. We have the technology at Mississippi State. I'm not convinced that we are utilizing it to its fullest extent.

Oh we use analytics and technology a lot. Maybe more than anyone in the SEC. But I think from talking to the coaches they actually rely on it too much. Let me give you an example. Karson Ligon. In the lab he had I think the second best numbers of any pitcher we have behind Pico I think it was. However, in scrimmages he had major control issues and struggled. So, that's why he is still in the rotation despite the fact he hasn't played very well.

The other thing about analytics in baseball that a lot of people miss is you can't really just blanket statement analytics. It comes down to individual match ups and what THOSE analytics say when you're talking about what gets the weight in decision making.

And the thing about that is as fans we don't have that info readily available. Now you can probably find SIERRA or whatever data you can find for a team more easily and maybe even calculate some of it depending on how complicated the formula is but that is only a piece of what the coaches have which is way more in depth.

And in fact I think they rely so much on analytics that it may have caused them to become emotionless compared to some of their other contemporaries and I think it may have caused them to lack focus on fundamentals. Why? Because they're waiting on their data to bear itself out.


I will also add this. I completely understand where those who think the program is too big for a first-time head coach come from. Hiring a first-time head coach at this program is a risk. I 100% agree.

However, I'm not against it. Why? Because sometimes you have to make a decision whether to take a chance to be great or play it safe and be average. I think with the way college baseball coaches tend to not hop around, hiring an established head coach from a lower-level program may be the safe move, but is it the move that will ensure that we become the perennial national championship contenders we know this program can be? I look at what Tennessee has done under a first-time head coach in Tony Vitello. Yes, he took over a program that was not on the same level as our program when he got that Tennessee job. All he's done is build a perennial national championship contender out of a program that was an also ran program prior to him. He's won 73% of his games since 2018. Look at what Wes Johnson has done with the Georgia baseball program. They are top 5 in the country in his second season.

Everyone wants a Tony Vitello, but to get the next Tony Vitello, you are likely going to have to go the first-time head coach route. Someone like Will Coggin, Josh Elander, or Nate Thompson.

The only assistant out of that group I would consider is Coggin. Because at least he understands MSU's culture and that is a very real thing. As I've said before this job is a monster and you can't just half ass hire someone and hope they figure coaching out. There is way too much scrutiny here and the expectations aren't changing.

[Duckdog]

I do not understand the Cann love at all. He was all potential. But was a flop. And he doesn't get near the credit for 2022 and 2023 that he deserves because our great baseball fans can't grasp how recruiting cycles work. But hey! He got Tanner Allen. No one talks about how he didn't get Bednar or Sims though.



Because it's baseball and anything can happen. And yes, it doesn't look good and it probably won't end well. Those same boosters have seen MSU do some crazy things when we looked dead in the water. Just look at 2018.

There are a lot of factors that go into the decision of removing a coach and fans kicking and screaming aren't real high on the list.

That said- let's be realistic here. We have 8 weeks left in the season including the SEC tournament. So we're talking 2 months here. Or less really. Memorial Day weekend and this continues and it's over. Then you get what you want. Making Gautreau the coach doesn't help anything. Or Polk 3. It's all the same result because we're cooked.

Me neither, Cann got his dumba$$ fired from a high school job for being an idiot. Why would we want that back. Folks are stupid

[KB21]

Amazing the analytic czar skipped that part

I see your ass is still chafed because I was correct on Arnett and Barbay.

[KB21]

Oh we use analytics and technology a lot. Maybe more than anyone in the SEC. But I think from talking to the coaches they actually rely on it too much. Let me give you an example. Karson Ligon. In the lab he had I think the second best numbers of any pitcher we have behind Pico I think it was. However, in scrimmages he had major control issues and struggled. So, that's why he is still in the rotation despite the fact he hasn't played very well.

The other thing about analytics in baseball that a lot of people miss is you can't really just blanket statement analytics. It comes down to individual match ups and what THOSE analytics say when you're talking about what gets the weight in decision making.

And the thing about that is as fans we don't have that info readily available. Now you can probably find SIERRA or whatever data you can find for a team more easily and maybe even calculate some of it depending on how complicated the formula is but that is only a piece of what the coaches have which is way more in depth.

And in fact I think they rely so much on analytics that it may have caused them to become emotionless compared to some of their other contemporaries and I think it may have caused them to lack focus on fundamentals. Why? Because they're waiting on their data to bear itself out.



The only assistant out of that group I would consider is Coggin. Because at least he understands MSU's culture and that is a very real thing. As I've said before this job is a monster and you can't just half ass hire someone and hope they figure coaching out. There is way too much scrutiny here and the expectations aren't changing.

You are going to have a hard time convincing me that we are using analytics and technology more than Tennessee and Georgia are when you look at the results on the field. Georgia hasn't hit 1800 HRs this season because they avoid having too much data.

[Coach34]

You are going to have a hard time convincing me that we are using analytics and technology more than Tennessee and Georgia are when you look at the results on the field. Georgia hasn't hit 1800 HRs this season because they avoid having too much data.

analytics in the pitching lab is the only way to convince someone that Ligon should be an SEC SP

[KB21]

analytics in the pitching lab is the only way to convince someone that Ligon should be an SEC SP

It's actually not, because the analytics on his fastball are trash. It's flat. It has almost zero movement. It's the definition of a deadzone fastball. If they were really using the data the pitching lab shows, they would decrease the use of his fastball, have him develop a cutter to go opposite of his slider, and increase the use of his slider and change up, which do have good analytics. When they call pitches for him though, they are probably calling close to 60% fastball.

The only thing he has with his fastball is velocity. It's low spin, and that's why it has below average IVB. His extension isn't that great either.

[KB21]

Go check out the ground ball to fly ball percentages of Georgia's top hitters, compare them to the ground ball and fly ball percentages of Mississippi State's top hitters, and try to tell me that we are using technology to maximize swing paths to generate power.

Will Coggin has Ryland Zaborowski hitting 22% ground balls to 50% fly balls. There's a reason he has 14 home runs on the year, which is close to his total he hit last year at a lower competition level.

We have Ace Reese hitting 40% ground balls. We have Nolan Stevens hitting 50% ground balls. Hunter Hines hits 35% ground balls. None of these three should be above 25% ground balls.

[Todd4State]

You are going to have a hard time convincing me that we are using analytics and technology more than Tennessee and Georgia are when you look at the results on the field. Georgia hasn't hit 1800 HRs this season because they avoid having too much data.

I don't know if they are using it more than us but I do know we have access to more technology than they do. So that would lead me to believe we use it more based on that alone.

[Todd4State]

It's actually not, because the analytics on his fastball are trash. It's flat. It has almost zero movement. It's the definition of a deadzone fastball. If they were really using the data the pitching lab shows, they would decrease the use of his fastball, have him develop a cutter to go opposite of his slider, and increase the use of his slider and change up, which do have good analytics. When they call pitches for him though, they are probably calling close to 60% fastball.

The only thing he has with his fastball is velocity. It's low spin, and that's why it has below average IVB. His extension isn't that great either.

They have been working on his extension. It may not be translating from the lab to the game. In the lab they have info that takes into account all of the data and they go off of that.

[Todd4State]

Go check out the ground ball to fly ball percentages of Georgia's top hitters, compare them to the ground ball and fly ball percentages of Mississippi State's top hitters, and try to tell me that we are using technology to maximize swing paths to generate power.

Will Coggin has Ryland Zaborowski hitting 22% ground balls to 50% fly balls. There's a reason he has 14 home runs on the year, which is close to his total he hit last year at a lower competition level.

We have Ace Reese hitting 40% ground balls. We have Nolan Stevens hitting 50% ground balls. Hunter Hines hits 35% ground balls. None of these three should be above 25% ground balls.

Hitting the ball in the air or trying to is what got Hines benched. He has been much better and hit with more power since he started using the whole field.

You have to know yourself as a hitter and very few can hit well by trying to get the ball in the air. In fact, that thinking is going away some in MLB because so many were struggling with it.

[KB21]

Hitting the ball in the air or trying to is what got Hines benched. He has been much better and hit with more power since he started using the whole field.

You have to know yourself as a hitter and very few can hit well by trying to get the ball in the air. In fact, that thinking is going away some in MLB because so many were struggling with it.

What got Hunter a sit down was not that he was trying to hit it in the air. It was more that he was trying to hit everything to the pull side, and he wasn't making good in zone contact at all. He's been hot as a hitter in conference play, and his ground ball percentage is down to 22.7% in conference play with 50% fly balls. So, him getting the ball more in the air has helped. 27% of his fly balls are home runs as well. Now, if we could get Ace Reese to stop hitting the ball on the ground.