All time starting 5 in hoops (1st, 2nd, 3rd) team

[klong-dog]

(1st team)
PG. Darryl Wilson
SG. Timmy Bowers
SF. Cam Matthews
PF. Jarvis Varnado
C. Erik Dampier

(2nd team)
PG. Derrick Zimmerman / Josh Hubbard
SG. Quinndary Weatherspoon
SF. Dontae Jones
PF. Lawrence Roberts
C. Charles Rhodes

(3rd team)
PG. Dee Bost
SG. Winsome Frazier
SF. Horatio Webster
PF. Reggie Perry
C. Mario Austin

[ScottH]

Before discussing further, please slide Jeff Malone into the first team.

[klong-dog]

Before discussing further, please slide Jeff Malone into the first team.

Sorry, I left out on title (since 1990)

[KentuckyDawg13]

And no members of the 1991 SEC Champs team?
Cameron Burns?
Greg Carter?

Hmm....after pondering being slayed here online, I would currently place Bost over Hubbard.
I hope to be incorrect in the near future.

[StarkVegasSteve]

So 91 was before my time and I only remember the Final Four due to highlights but if I had to do it:


1st Team

PG-Darryl Wilson
SG-Quindary Weatherspoon
SF-Dontae Jones
PF-Lawrence Roberts
C-Erik Dampier

2nd Team

PG-Derrick Zimmerman
SG-Timmy Bowers
SF-Winsome Frazier
PF-Reggie Perry
C- Charles Rhodes

3rd Team

PG- Jamont Gordon
SG- Barry Stewart
SF- Greg Carter
PF- Jarvis Varnado
C- Mario Austin


Glue Guys Team

PG- Dee Bost
SG- Marckell Patterson
SF-Cam Matthews
PF-Brandon Vincent
C-Abdul Ado


I'd put my second team against anybody and I would win. Zimmerman was just a killer on the court and Rhodes couldn't be stopped when he decided he didn't want to be stopped. Then there's Frazier, who could jump out of the gym. We've had some really great teams that have just gotten shit luck in the NCAAT. From our 3 seed 01-02 team having to go to Dallas to play 6 seed Texas in the second round, 04-05 getting Duke in the second round, 08-09 getting Memphis in the second round, and I could go on.

I still say that 01-02 team might have been our best chance since 96 to win it all. We were hot coming in having won 8 straight and just won the SECT. Mario was playing incredible, Golar was a defensive stopper, and our 3 guards(Zimmerman, Bowers, Patterson) were playing as well as any guard trio in the country

[Coach34]

Why are you guys switching 00 and Bowers? 00 was a SG and Bowers played PG

PG- Chucky Evans (Averaged 8 assts and 3 steals per at State- nobody else is close)
SG- Darryl Wilson
SF- Greg Carter
PF- Lawrence Roberts
C- Damp

[RockyDog]

Y'all doing a little cheating with the positions. Varnado was not a PF by any means and Rhodes was not a center.

[StarkVegasSteve]

Y'all doing a little cheating with the positions. Varnado was not a PF by any means and Rhodes was not a center.

The All-NBA first team last year had 4 guards and Giannis. I think you can cheat positions a little bit. I mean Jamont would play SG or SF on this years team and he was the PG.

[Homedawg]

(1st team)
PG. Darryl Wilson
SG. Timmy Bowers
SF. Cam Matthews
PF. Jarvis Varnado
C. Erik Dampier

(2nd team)
PG. Derrick Zimmerman / Josh Hubbard
SG. Quinndary Weatherspoon
SF. Dontae Jones
PF. Lawrence Roberts
C. Charles Rhodes

(3rd team)
PG. Dee Bost
SG. Winsome Frazier
SF. Horatio Webster
PF. Reggie Perry
C. Mario Austin

need to set a starting with date

[Homedawg]

Why are you guys switching 00 and Bowers? 00 was a SG and Bowers played PG

PG- Chucky Evans (Averaged 8 assts and 3 steals per at State- nobody else is close)
SG- Darryl Wilson
SF- Greg Carter
PF- Lawrence Roberts
C- Damp

correct super D was a 2 guard period

[cheewgumm]

PG Hubbard
SG Daryl Wilson
SF Dontae Jones
PF Lawrence Roberts
C Eric Dampier

That is if you have to keep them in position and who was actually "better".


I love Cam Mathews and Greg Carter and have a hard time between those 2. Went with Dontae as he is better than them (at least scoring), and he led us to the final 4.

[cheewgumm]

Obvoiuisly everyone is forgetting Baily Howell, as i did.

[KentuckyDawg13]

Obvoiuisly everyone is forgetting Baily Howell, as i did.

True.

[Coach34]

The only PG choice is Evans. Evans is 5th all-time at State in assists- doing it in only 2 seasons. The rest of the Top 5 played here 4 seasons.

Evans is 7th in State history in steals. The 6 above him all played 4 years to his 2.

[StarkVegasSteve]

Obvoiuisly everyone is forgetting Baily Howell, as i did.

He said since 1990. So no, we aren't forgetting Bailey Howell. Just like we're not forgetting Jeff Malone.

[Lord McBuckethead]

1st off Lawrence Roberts was better than Varnado. Jarvis just completely shut down all scoring inside the free throw line. So I can understand if you wanted him ont he 2nd team. I would put Mario Austin as a PF and bump Perry.
No list is complete without Big Feces.

[HoopsDawg]

The only PG choice is Evans. Evans is 5th all-time at State in assists- doing it in only 2 seasons. The rest of the Top 5 played here 4 seasons.

Evans is 7th in State history in steals. The 6 above him all played 4 years to his 2.

For sure. Evans, Roberts, and Damp are non debatable.

The only debate is between Wilson or Bowers at the 2. And Dontae or Greg Carter at the 3. I would probably go with Bowers over Daryl due to size, athleticism, leadership and defense.

And I'd have to go Dontae bc he is the ultimate wildcard and he was the best player in the country for a 3 week stretch.

PG: Chucky Evans
SG: Timmy Bowers
SF: Dontae Jones
PF: Lawrence Roberts
C: Erick Dampier

[msu15]

C-Abdul Ado



Barf, gross. Perfect representation of why Howland never got us over the Hump.

[StarkVegasSteve]

Barf, gross. Perfect representation of why Howland never got us over the Hump.

Abdul had some big games for us. A&M 18 comes to mind when the damn University was falling apart with the Cann stuff and what the rumors were at that time. I didn't say he was the best. But I knew he would give it everything he had for us every time he stepped out there. I never had to doubt that. Just like all the other guys on that glue guy list.

[NCMSTFAN]

So 91 was before my time and I only remember the Final Four due to highlights but if I had to do it:


1st Team

PG-Darryl Wilson
SG-Quindary Weatherspoon
SF-Dontae Jones
PF-Lawrence Roberts
C-Erik Dampier

2nd Team

PG-Derrick Zimmerman
SG-Timmy Bowers
SF-Winsome Frazier
PF-Reggie Perry
C- Charles Rhodes

3rd Team

PG- Jamont Gordon
SG- Barry Stewart
SF- Greg Carter
PF- Jarvis Varnado
C- Mario Austin


Glue Guys Team

PG- Dee Bost
SG- Marckell Patterson
SF-Cam Matthews
PF-Brandon Vincent
C-Abdul Ado


I'd put my second team against anybody and I would win. Zimmerman was just a killer on the court and Rhodes couldn't be stopped when he decided he didn't want to be stopped. Then there's Frazier, who could jump out of the gym. We've had some really great teams that have just gotten shit luck in the NCAAT. From our 3 seed 01-02 team having to go to Dallas to play 6 seed Texas in the second round, 04-05 getting Duke in the second round, 08-09 getting Memphis in the second round, and I could go on.

I still say that 01-02 team might have been our best chance since 96 to win it all. We were hot coming in having won 8 straight and just won the SECT. Mario was playing incredible, Golar was a defensive stopper, and our 3 guards(Zimmerman, Bowers, Patterson) were playing as well as any guard trio in the country

Fraizer couldn't jump out of the gym he wasn't that type player. He was a 3 point shooter and a guy that would get a bunch of steals. He led the SEC in steals while at State

[StarkVegasSteve]

Fraizer couldn't jump out of the gym he wasn't that type player. He was a 3 point shooter and a guy that would get a bunch of steals. He led the SEC in steals while at State

I watched him pin a ball on the backboard that was above the square against Bama in 05. So yea.....he could jump out of the gym. Winsome did what he needed for us, but that kid had athleticism for days.

[klong-dog]

Fraizer couldn't jump out of the gym he wasn't that type player. He was a 3 point shooter and a guy that would get a bunch of steals. He led the SEC in steals while at State

Yeah, Frazier was known for chasing down his opponents and beating that shit against the back board. He most certainly had some hops, almost Zimmerman like.

[MoreCowbell]

(1st team)
PG. Darryl Wilson
SG. Timmy Bowers
SF. Cam Matthews
PF. Jarvis Varnado
C. Erik Dampier

(2nd team)
PG. Derrick Zimmerman / Josh Hubbard
SG. Quinndary Weatherspoon
SF. Dontae Jones
PF. Lawrence Roberts
C. Charles Rhodes

(3rd team)
PG. Dee Bost
SG. Winsome Frazier
SF. Horatio Webster
PF. Reggie Perry
C. Mario Austin

Jamont Gordon instead of Dee Bost

[MoreCowbell]

So 91 was before my time and I only remember the Final Four due to highlights but if I had to do it:


1st Team

PG-Darryl Wilson
SG-Quindary Weatherspoon
SF-Dontae Jones
PF-Lawrence Roberts
C-Erik Dampier

2nd Team

PG-Derrick Zimmerman
SG-Timmy Bowers
SF-Winsome Frazier
PF-Reggie Perry
C- Charles Rhodes

3rd Team

PG- Jamont Gordon
SG- Barry Stewart
SF- Greg Carter
PF- Jarvis Varnado
C- Mario Austin


Glue Guys Team

PG- Dee Bost
SG- Marckell Patterson
SF-Cam Matthews
PF-Brandon Vincent
C-Abdul Ado


I'd put my second team against anybody and I would win. Zimmerman was just a killer on the court and Rhodes couldn't be stopped when he decided he didn't want to be stopped. Then there's Frazier, who could jump out of the gym. We've had some really great teams that have just gotten shit luck in the NCAAT. From our 3 seed 01-02 team having to go to Dallas to play 6 seed Texas in the second round, 04-05 getting Duke in the second round, 08-09 getting Memphis in the second round, and I could go on.

I still say that 01-02 team might have been our best chance since 96 to win it all. We were hot coming in having won 8 straight and just won the SECT. Mario was playing incredible, Golar was a defensive stopper, and our 3 guards(Zimmerman, Bowers, Patterson) were playing as well as any guard trio in the country

Perry above Vernardo should get you banned

[StarkVegasSteve]

Perry above Vernardo should get you banned

I value offense. Perry was a better offensively player by a mile. I really did not even want to put Varnado on there honestly. I watched him get absolutely BULLIED by John Brockman in the 1st round in 09. I never saw Perry get bullied by anyone. I watched him carry us multiple games though.

Jarvis BEST offensive season was 13/10.

Reggie was 18/10 in his second season and 10/7 in his first. Also threw in a block a game in his second season.

Some of you have an overinflated view of Varnado because he holds the blocks record. He averaged 4 blocks a game. And since we won exactly 1 NCAAT game with him on the roster, I am going to say it did not matter all that much.

[NCMSTFAN]

I watched him pin a ball on the backboard that was above the square against Bama in 05. So yea.....he could jump out of the gym. Winsome did what he needed for us, but that kid had athleticism for days.

Zimmerman and Bowers could jump out of the gym. Again Frazier wasn't that type of an athlete, chasing down blocks doesn't make you a crazy athlete, Frazier wasn't known to be a great athlete he was a shooter and really good defender.

[NCMSTFAN]

Yeah, Frazier was known for chasing down his opponents and beating that shit against the back board. He most certainly had some hops, almost Zimmerman like.

🤣🤣 please stop, I vividly remember all of those teams Frazier had nowhere near the athleticism as Zimmerman and Bowers, not even close, that wasn't his game he was not a high flyer. Yes he chased down blocks and was a hell of a defender but he could not jump out of the gym at all, that was not his game

[1eyedog]

del

[1eyedog]

del

[1eyedog]

Before discussing further, please slide Jeff Malone into the first team.

Ray White shooting guard......Greg Carter forward.....The team that beat Kentucky in Nawlins in OT had to be the best team......Also loved yelling "DOWN GOES FRAZIER" when he drained a three. ........Gary Hooker absolutely the most entertaining player especially against om........he drove them crazy and sent several to the bench with fouls. Wiley Peck was the most dominating rebounding power and hardest working forward for the DOGS......bar none. Lawrence Roberts and Eric Dampier had to take honors for the big man.......

[NCMSTFAN]

I watched him pin a ball on the backboard that was above the square against Bama in 05. So yea.....he could jump out of the gym. Winsome did what he needed for us, but that kid had athleticism for days.

https://youtu.be/7e9ZaS2XpBc?si=54zH57_prNfHqvaT

There's not a ton of video out on Frazier and this video was several years after his State days but to sort of refresh your memory, this was more of Frazier's style of play. He was a really good shooter and really good defender, one of my favorite players out ot Miami but this notion that he was this crazy athlete is wrong, that wasn'this game. Excuse the music if its not your thing

[Coach34]

Frazier was an athlete that could leap and defend. Trying to paint him as some "shooter" is ridiculous. He was a 33% guy from 3.

[NCMSTFAN]

Frazier was an athlete that could leap and defend. Trying to paint him as some "shooter" is ridiculous. He was a 33% guy from 3.

So your telling me Frazier and Zimmermans athleticism is comparable?

[1eyedog]

Before discussing further, please slide Jeff Malone into the first team.

Ray White shooting guard......Greg Carter forward.....The team that beat Kentucky in Nawlins in OT had to be the best team......Also loved yelling ?DOWN GOES FRAZIER? when he drain a three. ........Gary Hooker absolutely the most entertaining player especially against om........he drove them crazy. Wiley Peck was absolutely the most dominating rebounding power forward for the DOGS......bar none. Lawrence Roberts and Eric Dampier had to take honors for the big man.......

[NCMSTFAN]

Frazier was an athlete that could leap and defend. Trying to paint him as some "shooter" is ridiculous. He was a 33% guy from 3.

Frazier was not this type of athlete:

https://youtu.be/a2IgRhLLq_0?si=emEvFUXk8vcioDji

I stand by what I said, I don't give a damn about 33% shooting, Frazier was our knock down big bucket shooter who could get hot and go dor 30 plus, I vividly remember it all. He was a pesky defender that would gaurd the best perimeter player, disrupt them and get a ton of steals. Stop this notion that he was this high flyer who could jump out of the gym, that was never his game! Yes he had athleticism but he wasn't close to the freak athlete that Zimmerman was. Nowhere near that

[tcdog70]

I’ve been watching since Joe Dan Gold, when Everette was a manager.
1 PG the best ever Chuckie Evan’s.
2. SG I love Q. How many game winning shots.
3 small f. Donte Jones with chuckle setting Him up
4 Cam he has to be on the floor
5 y’all might disagree but give me Tolu.

Plenty of great options but this team would be fun to watch

[NCMSTFAN]

I’ve been watching since Joe Dan Gold, when Everette was a manager.
1 PG the best ever Chuckie Evan’s.
2. SG I love Q. How many game winning shots.
3 small f. Donte Jones with chuckle setting Him up
4 Cam he has to be on the floor
5 y’all might disagree but give me Tolu.

Plenty of great options but this team would be fun to watch

I like Q at the 2 spot as well

[cheewgumm]

So your telling me Frazier and Zimmermans athleticism is comparable?



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hm3rAhxjoJc


Zimmerman was much more of a leaper

[LC Dawg]

For sure. Evans, Roberts, and Damp are non debatable.

The only debate is between Wilson or Bowers at the 2. And Dontae or Greg Carter at the 3. I would probably go with Bowers over Daryl due to size, athleticism, leadership and defense.

And I'd have to go Dontae bc he is the ultimate wildcard and he was the best player in the country for a 3 week stretch.

PG: Chucky Evans
SG: Timmy Bowers
SF: Dontae Jones
PF: Lawrence Roberts
C: Erick Dampier

I don't see any way to leave Wilson off 1st team. And Dontae was great, really great, for those 3 weeks but I'd go with Carter for his career. There's really no wrong answer there.
Hopefully in 10 years we have even more players to debate.

[cheewgumm]

To me the hardest question is:

Dontae Jones / Greg Carter /Cameron Mathews

Who ya got?

[StarkVegasSteve]

To me the hardest question is:

Dontae Jones / Greg Carter /Cameron Mathews

Who ya got?

Tournament and Season: Dontae

Career: Cam

[NCMSTFAN]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hm3rAhxjoJc


Zimmerman was much more of a leaper

Oh trust me I know, but I was told Frazier could jump out of the gym and his athleticism was parallel to Zimmerman by a few people on here who all of a sudden got real quiet. I love Frazier but to compare the two of them athletically is not accurate whatsoever, not even close. That's not to say Frazier wasn't a good athlete, he was... just not this jump out of the gym guy

[NCMSTFAN]

To me the hardest question is:

Dontae Jones / Greg Carter /Cameron Mathews

Who ya got?

I like Cam out of those 3

[cheewgumm]

I like Cam out of those 3



I do too, but i think it is recency bias.

Carter was fantastic and Dontae produced my greated STate moments in basktball, if not overall.

[HoopsDawg]

I like Cam out of those 3

Cam is an all time favorite of mine but you have to have a shooter at the 3 spot.

[NCMSTFAN]

Cam is an all time favorite of mine but you have to have a shooter at the 3 spot.

It's always nice to have shooters but of those 3 choices he presented I like Cam because of his versatility. He is going to defend, rebound and help out with play making, alot of people don't value those things as much as shooting/scoring but I do. My PG and SG will do alot of the shooting.

[Coach34]

Oh trust me I know, but I was told Frazier could jump out of the gym and his athleticism was parallel to Zimmerman by a few people on here who all of a sudden got real quiet. I love Frazier but to compare the two of them athletically is not accurate whatsoever, not even close. That's not to say Frazier wasn't a good athlete, he was... just not this jump out of the gym guy

I didnt say Frazier was the same athlete as Zimm was- but he was def very athletic and certainly not a guy I would label as a "shooter". He was an athletic guy that could knock down a 3.

[StarkVegasSteve]

I didnt say Frazier was the same athlete as Zimm was- but he was def very athletic and certainly not a guy I would label as a "shooter". He was an athletic guy that could knock down a 3.

Correct. Winsome was still extremely athletic, and yes, could jump out of the gym. Just because he wasn't throwing down 360s every other possession doesn't mean he couldn't jump. He was a knockdown shooter because that's what Rick asked him to do in our system. I watched Winsome win a dunk contest at basketball camp with the Vince Carter elbow in the cylinder dunk.

[NCMSTFAN]

Correct. Winsome was still extremely athletic, and yes, could jump out of the gym. Just because he wasn't throwing down 360s every other possession doesn't mean he couldn't jump. He was a knockdown shooter because that's what Rick asked him to do in our system. I watched Winsome win a dunk contest at basketball camp with the Vince Carter elbow in the cylinder dunk.

My brother in law was getting recruited to State during these years so I spent some time watching this team and got to see them up close. AGAIN, Frazier was a great player for us, he was our shooter along with Shane Power, that was his role to shoot the open 3 and defend! Please go find me one video of Frazier jumping out of the gym, yes he was a good athlete but yall need to stop with this, I posted a video showing Fraziers game but you two wanna ignore what's right in your face, that was his game, and there is nothing wrong with his style of play. No point to keep discussing this though, Frazier was a hell of a player for us regardless

[cheewgumm]

We need a "how do you remember Winsome Frazier" thread. HA

[R2Dawg]

Oh trust me I know, but I was told Frazier could jump out of the gym and his athleticism was parallel to Zimmerman by a few people on here who all of a sudden got real quiet. I love Frazier but to compare the two of them athletically is not accurate whatsoever, not even close. That's not to say Frazier wasn't a good athlete, he was... just not this jump out of the gym guy

I think Zimmerman was the most explosive player we've ever had. His verifical flat off floor was unmatched. Winsome had good running leap but the two are totally different. Flat off floor is generally more difficult and rare. Still remember the best posterizing ever was by Mr. Zimmerman.

[R2Dawg]

So 91 was before my time and I only remember the Final Four due to highlights but if I had to do it:


1st Team

PG-Darryl Wilson
SG-Quindary Weatherspoon
SF-Dontae Jones
PF-Lawrence Roberts
C-Erik Dampier

2nd Team

PG-Derrick Zimmerman
SG-Timmy Bowers
SF-Winsome Frazier
PF-Reggie Perry
C- Charles Rhodes

3rd Team

PG- Jamont Gordon
SG- Barry Stewart
SF- Greg Carter
PF- Jarvis Varnado
C- Mario Austin


Glue Guys Team

PG- Dee Bost
SG- Marckell Patterson
SF-Cam Matthews
PF-Brandon Vincent
C-Abdul Ado


I'd put my second team against anybody and I would win. Zimmerman was just a killer on the court and Rhodes couldn't be stopped when he decided he didn't want to be stopped. Then there's Frazier, who could jump out of the gym. We've had some really great teams that have just gotten shit luck in the NCAAT. From our 3 seed 01-02 team having to go to Dallas to play 6 seed Texas in the second round, 04-05 getting Duke in the second round, 08-09 getting Memphis in the second round, and I could go on.

I still say that 01-02 team might have been our best chance since 96 to win it all. We were hot coming in having won 8 straight and just won the SECT. Mario was playing incredible, Golar was a defensive stopper, and our 3 guards(Zimmerman, Bowers, Patterson) were playing as well as any guard trio in the country

Great list. Boy so many great players.

It is hard for me to pick 1, 2 3rd team for most of those guys. They all bring something special. I'd have Cameron Burns on there somewhere. He was only 6'7" but was an animal in the pain. He handled two 7 footers in 91 (Shaw and Roberts). Burns got it down low it was over. Maybe Burns is on the Glue team.

My all Dawg team for just toughness has Cam Matthews and Brandon Vincent at the top of the list, add in Gholar

[NCMSTFAN]

I think Zimmerman was the most explosive player we've ever had. His verifical flat off floor was unmatched. Winsome had good running leap but the two are totally different. Flat off floor is generally more difficult and rare. Still remember the best posterizing ever was by Mr. Zimmerman.

Completely agree

[Coach34]

We also need to remember why Zimm had to be so explosive- he couldnt shoot. For reference- DJ Jeffries was a better 3 point shooter

[R2Dawg]

We also need to remember why Zimm had to be so explosive- he couldnt shoot. For reference- DJ Jeffries was a better 3 point shooter

Yes and no. Even if he couldn't shoot doesn't mean he is now explosive. He is explosive because he is; If he had developed a jump shot then a whole other level.

Winsome could shoot but that is not why he wasn't as explosive as Z. Just not his DNA. Like I said in other post, all these players brought some unique things to the table as great players.

[Liverpooldawg]

1st off Lawrence Roberts was better than Varnado. Jarvis just completely shut down all scoring inside the free throw line. So I can understand if you wanted him ont he 2nd team. I would put Mario Austin as a PF and bump Perry.
No list is complete without Big Feces.

Jarvis never completely shut down anything. He blocked a lot of shots, but people could and did score on him. If he didn't block it, it was usually a basket. He was a slightly above average defender at best. Now Dampier on the other hand, it got to where people didn't even challenge him much.

[Liverpooldawg]

Chuckie Evans was the best point guard of that time period, and it's not even close. ALSO, Darryl Wilson was NOT a point guard. He only played it in dire emergencies. Bowers played point a LOT.

[Liverpooldawg]

1st Team
PG Chuckie Evans
SG Darryl Wilson
SF Donte Jones
PF Lawrence Roberts
C Eric Dampier

2nd Team
PG Josh Hubbard
SG Timmy Bowers
SF Shane Power
PF Greg Carter
C/F Mario Austin

3rd Team
PG Derrick Zimmerman
SG Q Weatherspoon
SF Marcus Grant
PF Cameron Burns
C/F Tolu Smith

[cheewgumm]

I?d choose Hubbard over Evans

I realize he had a bunch of assists but there is scoring as well.

Also don?t know Chuckles assist - TO ratio.

[Liverpooldawg]

I?d choose Hubbard over Evans

I realize he had a bunch of assists but there is scoring as well.

Also don?t know Chuckles assist - TO ratio.

The teams Evans was on were not that good. If he had been on one of our better teams, he would be an absolute legend. He got all those assists when we didn't have a whole lot to dish to. We went to nearly every home game just to watch him. The guy was the best passer and the best ball handler I have ever seen at MSU, and it isn't even remotely close. He was smooth and he was explosive.

[Coach34]

Yes and no. Even if he couldn't shoot doesn't mean he is now explosive. He is explosive because he is; If he had developed a jump shot then a whole other level.

Winsome could shoot but that is not why he wasn't as explosive as Z. Just not his DNA. Like I said in other post, all these players brought some unique things to the table as great players.

damn guys. My post was that Zimm had to be super explosive to play SEC basketball because he couldnt shoot. Had he not had it- he wouldnt have had the success he had on the court

[Coach34]

I?d choose Hubbard over Evans

I realize he had a bunch of assists but there is scoring as well.

Also don?t know Chuckles assist - TO ratio.

Evans averaged 12.8 PPG at State/36.5% from 3/8 assts and 3 steals per

Hubb is not a PG but his stats are no better than Chucky's overall

It's not Chucky's fault he had to be with Johnny Walker and Erick freaking Stevens.

[cheewgumm]

Evans averaged 12.8 PPG at State/36.5% from 3/8 assts and 3 steals per

Hubb is not a PG but his stats are no better than Chucky's overall

It's not Chucky's fault he had to be with Johnny Walker and Erick freaking Stevens.



This is a good case for Chuckie.

Damn, I had Johnnie Walker on my 3rd team.

[HoopsDawg]

Evans averaged 12.8 PPG at State/36.5% from 3/8 assts and 3 steals per

Hubb is not a PG but his stats are no better than Chucky's overall

It's not Chucky's fault he had to be with Johnny Walker and Erick freaking Stevens.

8 assists per game is crazy.

People forget that Daryl was protected by Bullard defensively. That's why you have to go Bowers over Daryl.

[tcdog70]

Evans averaged 12.8 PPG at State/36.5% from 3/8 assts and 3 steals per

Hubb is not a PG but his stats are no better than Chucky's overall

It's not Chucky's fault he had to be with Johnny Walker and Erick freaking Stevens.

how many more assists would Chuckie have had if Stevens could have made lay ups.

[tcdog70]

My brother in law was getting recruited to State during these years so I spent some time watching this team and got to see them up close. AGAIN, Frazier was a great player for us, he was our shooter along with Shane Power, that was his role to shoot the open 3 and defend! Please go find me one video of Frazier jumping out of the gym, yes he was a good athlete but yall need to stop with this, I posted a video showing Fraziers game but you two wanna ignore what's right in your face, that was his game, and there is nothing wrong with his style of play. No point to keep discussing this though, Frazier was a hell of a player for us regardless

you are correct.. these folks probably never watched them play.

[tcdog70]

I think Zimmerman was the most explosive player we've ever had. His verifical flat off floor was unmatched. Winsome had good running leap but the two are totally different. Flat off floor is generally more difficult and rare. Still remember the best posterizing ever was by Mr. Zimmerman.

the problem was Zim couldn't shoot.

[tcdog70]

We also need to remember why Zimm had to be so explosive- he couldnt shoot. For reference- DJ Jeffries was a better 3 point shooter

i think Detrick White was better.

[tcdog70]

I?d choose Hubbard over Evans

I realize he had a bunch of assists but there is scoring as well.

Also don?t know Chuckles assist - TO ratio.

bad choice--CE was best point guard we ever had. played on a shitty team. Jim Ashmore might be the best guard we have had.

[NCMSTFAN]

you are correct.. these folks probably never watched them play.

Lol it doesn't sound like they did

[tcdog70]

all time best 5 IMHO
1-pg-Chuckie
2-sg Jim Ashmore----One of the greatest Bulldogs of all-time, Ashmore was a three-time All-SEC selection in 1954-55, 1955-56 and 1956-57. He secured Associated Press All-America Third-Team status as a senior during the 1956-57 season.

Ashmore was the first player in program history to amass 1,000 career points and his 1,918 points currently sit fourth on the program's all-time list. He is one of two players in State history to average over 20 points per contest joining another MSU legend and teammate, Bailey Howell.

Ashmore's career-high of 45 points versus Ole Miss on Jan. 19, 1957 is still tied for the second-most points scored by a State player in a game. He amassed 12 outings of 30-plus points in 1956-57 and averaged 28.3 points per contest which are both program records during a single season.

3.pF-Bailey
4- sF--Jeff Malone
5 Ricky Brown

i know Malone was a 2 guard--but at 6'4" he could be a small forward. Ricky Brown had a nice pro career and was great at State. Bailey -just the best player ever at MSU.

[Coach34]

how many more assists would Chuckie have had if Stevens could have made lay ups.

it was comical to watch Chuckie hit Stevens in the chest with passes he wasnt ready for. Happened a 100 times it seemed like those 2 seasons. I played with him a couple of times in McCarthy during summer pick-up games. Was always worried he was going to hit me in the face with a pass I didnt see coming

[R2Dawg]

damn guys. My post was that Zimm had to be super explosive to play SEC basketball because he couldnt shoot. Had he not had it- he wouldnt have had the success he had on the court

Yeah so. No one is disagreeing with that. You trying to minimize how athletic Z was on a stupid premise is that it was only because he couldn't shoot is idiotic. Hope you were a good coach.

[R2Dawg]

the problem was Zim couldn't shoot.

You missed to topic of the post. It was about Z athleticism. Nothing to do with his shooting or where he stands in best players. Never said he could shoot or was a great shooter.

[R2Dawg]

8 assists per game is crazy.

People forget that Daryl was protected by Bullard defensively. That's why you have to go Bowers over Daryl.

Agree with that. Bowers is near the top. Loved Wilson but Bowers had a little more in his game, way more explosive. Bowers won the SEC in 04 playing out of position at point.

[Coach34]

Yeah so. No one is disagreeing with that. You trying to minimize how athletic Z was on a stupid premise is that it was only because he couldn't shoot is idiotic. Hope you were a good coach.

No- I was just trying to say Frazier was very athletic and in no way a "shooter". I in no way, shape, or form tried minimize Zimm's athleticism. Without it he never sniffs an SEC gym. Not sure why you guys are pearl clutching about Zimm. Reading is fundamental

[R2Dawg]

No- I was just trying to say Frazier was very athletic and in no way a "shooter". I in no way, shape, or form tried minimize Zimm's athleticism. Without it he never sniffs an SEC gym. Not sure why you guys are pearl clutching about Zimm. Reading is fundamental

You are mixing others comments with mine about Z. Go back and read it dude.

I've been respectful to you for years but bout run out of it. Just agree to disagree if you want and stop personal insults because you think you know more than everyone else.

I never said Z was a great shooter. None of the players sniff an SEC gym without being an athlete but Z was a level above most everyone else there. Z was heck of a rebounder, tough defender, drive to the goal, good enough passer and good ball handler. Cam can't shoot either but he is a great player. Frazier was no where near the athlete Z was and Z was nowhere near the shooter Frazier was. So what is your issue?

[Coach34]

You are mixing others comments with mine about Z. Go back and read it dude.

I've been respectful to you for years but bout run out of it. Just agree to disagree if you want and stop personal insults because you think you know more than everyone else.

I never said Z was a great shooter. None of the players sniff an SEC gym without being an athlete but Z was a level above most everyone else there. Z was heck of a rebounder, tough defender, drive to the goal, good enough passer and good ball handler. Cam can't shoot either but he is a great player. Frazier was no where near the athlete Z was and Z was nowhere near the shooter Frazier was. So what is your issue?

Not sure where the disconnect is- I agree with all that

[NCMSTFAN]

No- I was just trying to say Frazier was very athletic and in no way a "shooter". I in no way, shape, or form tried minimize Zimm's athleticism. Without it he never sniffs an SEC gym. Not sure why you guys are pearl clutching about Zimm. Reading is fundamental

I won't even bring up this whole "very athletic" thing again with you but tell me what Winsome Frazier was if he wasn't a shooter. We all know he played Defense but what was his Offensive identity?

[tcdog70]

You missed to topic of the post. It was about Z athleticism. Nothing to do with his shooting or where he stands in best players. Never said he could shoot or was a great shooter.

I didn't miss shit.. Zim could jump real high-but he couldn't shoot. fact His last shot at MSU was a wide open one for the win and He missed. It ended our season--but he sure was athletic.