I keep hearing we are poor?

[Op4isabitch]

Yet the MSU foundation has almost $200million more in its coffers than the UM foundation does, we also have more Billionaire Alums while MSU grads make more $$$ on avg than UM grads.

So what exactly is our issue?

[Cooterpoot]

Well, we're cheap, not poor

[Op4isabitch]

Well, we're cheap, not poor

Is it that we are cheap or are we just less interested as a group? What do we do to change it?

[Bothrops]

We aren't poor, we're just poor in a land of giants.

[Tater]

Is it that we are cheap or are we just less interested as a group? What do we do to change it?

No. We're cheap in that we still operate like we're poor. Lots of saving money for a rainy day. Ole Miss meanwhile spent massively this year hoping to get a big return. We don't gamble our money for fear of falling on our face. It's a "poor" or "cheap" mentality. Nothing wrong with it because it's how I grew up and learned to manage my own personal finances. But the school of thought here is that maybe a billion dollar university shouldn't operate like a poor rural farmer when it comes to finances.

Though if we're going to be cheap, we should employ moneyball style approaches. Leach was actually a step in that direction. His unfortunate passing left us with a scenario where if you've watched that movie, it's akin to an alternate reality where Billy Beane dies right after trading Jeremy Giambi and Carlos Pena - a new GM signs a different 1B than Scott Hatteberg and the 20 game win streak never happens. We go two years into a rebuild and we're basically what the Chicago White Sox were this year in terms of talent and health.

Unfortunate but it is the reality. Cheap can be an effective strategy if it's supplemented by smart effective purchasing when necessary. We have shown neither smart nor effective purchasing since John Cohen left for Auburn.

[Really Clark?]

No. We're cheap in that we still operate like we're poor. Lots of saving money for a rainy day. Ole Miss meanwhile spent massively this year hoping to get a big return. We don't gamble our money for fear of falling on our face. It's a "poor" or "cheap" mentality. Nothing wrong with it because it's how I grew up and learned to manage my own personal finances. But the school of thought here is that maybe a billion dollar university shouldn't operate like a poor rural farmer when it comes to finances.

Though if we're going to be cheap, we should employ moneyball style approaches. Leach was actually a step in that direction. His unfortunate passing left us with a scenario where if you've watched that movie, it's akin to an alternate reality where Billy Beane dies right after trading Jeremy Giambi and Carlos Pena - a new GM signs a different 1B than Scott Hatteberg and the 20 game win streak never happens. We go two years into a rebuild and we're basically what the Chicago White Sox were this year in terms of talent and health.

Unfortunate but it is the reality. Cheap can be an effective strategy if it's supplemented by smart effective purchasing when necessary. We have shown neither smart nor effective purchasing since John Cohen left for Auburn.

Not to get into all of your posts, because a good bit of it is correct and/or a good approach. I will disagree that on the last sentence, that it's been since Cohen left. Cohen entire tenure for the most part and certain groups are also part of the problem that is still lingering. Can could also say in some aspects Stricklin as well. Although he was better in areas that many give him credit for.

[Op4isabitch]

We aren't poor, we're just poor in a land of giants.

I understand what you’re saying however it appears we have more financial assets than mississippi does, so what do we need to do? There’s no reason we can’t at least match or surpass their current position.

I guess I’m asking for what we think is “THE” main issue we are facing and how do we change it?

[Tater]

Not to get into all of your posts, because a good bit of it is correct and/or a good approach. I will disagree that on the last sentence, that it's been since Cohen left. Cohen entire tenure for the most part and certain groups are also part of the problem that is still lingering. Can could also say in some aspects Stricklin as well. Although he was better in areas that many give him credit for.

Neither Cohen nor Stricklin were perfectly opposite of this. I probably could have framed that better. They did some mix of good/bad with football.

I haven't seen Keenum/Selmon/Lebby do one step in the right direction the last two years really. Hindsight 20/20 on the Arnett hire. I was wrong on it, but hard to predict Arnett would lie there. I don't know anyone who doesn't make that hire. So I count the clock on it at 1/1/2023. Since then... what decisions has our admin made that we'd call good? I'm probably painting a broad stroke here, but can someone tell me the ones where we made the right decisions? We need to figure out what we did on those and repeat and expound on them.

Kevin coleman was a good one. MVB was a good one. Blake Shapen was a bad one.

[Really Clark?]

Neither Cohen nor Stricklin were perfectly opposite of this. I probably could have framed that better. They did some mix of good/bad with football.

I haven't seen Keenum/Selmon/Lebby do one step in the right direction the last two years really. Hindsight 20/20 on the Arnett hire. I was wrong on it, but hard to predict Arnett would lie there. I don't know anyone who doesn't make that hire. So I count the clock on it at 1/1/2023. Since then... what decisions has our admin made that we'd call good? I'm probably painting a broad stroke here, but can someone tell me the ones where we made the right decisions? We need to figure out what we did on those and repeat and expound on them.

Kevin coleman was a good one. MVB was a good one. Blake Shapen was a bad one.

Selmon has been a much better help to Charlie and the Initiative. Compared to Cohen, that was a huge step in a better direction.

[Tater]

Selmon has been a much better help to Charlie and the Initiative. Compared to Cohen, that was a huge step in a better direction.

Fair. We have announced some rather large donations. It does sound like we're building an NIL war chest. I actually don't hate the selling out for a big year every 4-5 years strategy to get in the playoff if that's what we're setting up. So in the moneyball regard, if you're expecting this year to suck - don't overspend for a 6-6 when you can save up for a 10-2 in two years is a smart thought. I'm not sure that's what our admin was planning, but I would claim that's my plan if I am them.

[Bothrops]

Neither Cohen nor Stricklin were perfectly opposite of this. I probably could have framed that better. They did some mix of good/bad with football.

I haven't seen Keenum/Selmon/Lebby do one step in the right direction the last two years really. Hindsight 20/20 on the Arnett hire. I was wrong on it, but hard to predict Arnett would lie there. I don't know anyone who doesn't make that hire. So I count the clock on it at 1/1/2023. Since then... what decisions has our admin made that we'd call good? I'm probably painting a broad stroke here, but can someone tell me the ones where we made the right decisions? We need to figure out what we did on those and repeat and expound on them.

Kevin coleman was a good one. MVB was a good one. Blake Shapen was a bad one.

Shapen plays well enough if healthy. We've seen worse in recent years.

[Tater]

Shapen plays well enough if healthy. We've seen worse in recent years.

You don't spend decent money on a brittle guy behind a weak OL. It was an obvious recipe for disaster.

[Bothrops]

You don't spend decent money on a brittle guy behind a weak OL. It was an obvious recipe for disaster.

We weren't going to win a bidding war on a heavily pursued qb. We won't this time either.


I don't think they anticipated the OL to turn out this bad with the older portal guys we got. Of course you have to take in account what they practiced against in fall camp. That certainly did them no favors.

[Tater]

We weren't going to win a bidding war on a heavily pursued qb. We won't this time either.


I don't think they anticipated the OL to turn out this bad with the older portal guys we got. Of course you have to take in account what they practiced against in fall camp. That certainly did them no favors.

Gotta be better at evaluating talent. And yea I'm not saying we could get Dillon Gabriel. I'm saying, get a couple even cheaper arms in to compete and then spend money elsewhere.

Let's say Shapen was a $300k purchase. Gabriel was a $5 mil purchase. And two FCS/G5 QBs (like what UNLV brought in) would have cost us $100k.

Difference between Gabriel and Shapen would have been negligible. I think both get hurt for us before game 6. OL/DL we say was unknown but most in the know of the program have beat the drum of a dearth of talent. So we should have spent smartly.

$100k total on two of the FCS/G5 guys. $100k to get more linemen in, I'm assuming $20k a pop for a standard decent potential rotation piece. And say at that value we only hit on 2 of the 5 linemen. $100k to use for a rainy day.

2 good rotational pieces for line, 1 OL and 1 DL, plus a sturdier two QBs and not having to rely on a true freshman. I think we compete better against Toledo in this scenario. I think we pull off a win against Mizzou, OM, ASU, or Aggy. Maybe two if we're lucky.

That's smarter spending and probably gets us to 4-8 while saving $100k. Now all my numbers could be completely off, but from what I've gathered they're in the right ballpark of these ranges. I think we gotta approach team building like this moving forward. It's not Blake Shapen or G5 QB. It's Blake Shapen or 2 G5 QB, 2 solid linemen, 3 bench warming misses, and an extra $100k. I'll take door number two every time when we're building from scratch. I'll take door number 1 if we're an 8 win ball club who needs a QB a la 2010 MSU missing out on Cam Newton.

[Bothrops]

Gotta be better at evaluating talent. And yea I'm not saying we could get Dillon Gabriel. I'm saying, get a couple even cheaper arms in to compete and then spend money elsewhere.

Let's say Shapen was a $300k purchase. Gabriel was a $5 mil purchase. And two FCS/G5 QBs (like what UNLV brought in) would have cost us $100k.

Difference between Gabriel and Shapen would have been negligible. I think both get hurt for us before game 6. OL/DL we say was unknown but most in the know of the program have beat the drum of a dearth of talent. So we should have spent smartly.

$100k total on two of the FCS/G5 guys. $100k to get more linemen in, I'm assuming $20k a pop for a standard decent potential rotation piece. And say at that value we only hit on 2 of the 5 linemen. $100k to use for a rainy day.

2 good rotational pieces for line, 1 OL and 1 DL, plus a sturdier two QBs and not having to rely on a true freshman. I think we compete better against Toledo in this scenario. I think we pull off a win against Mizzou, OM, ASU, or Aggy. Maybe two if we're lucky.

That's smarter spending and probably gets us to 4-8 while saving $100k. Now all my numbers could be completely off, but from what I've gathered they're in the right ballpark of these ranges. I think we gotta approach team building like this moving forward. It's not Blake Shapen or G5 QB. It's Blake Shapen or 2 G5 QB, 2 solid linemen, 3 bench warming misses, and an extra $100k. I'll take door number two every time when we're building from scratch. I'll take door number 1 if we're an 8 win ball club who needs a QB a la 2010 MSU missing out on Cam Newton.

But that's part of the problem. We aren't smart.

[Tater]

But that's part of the problem. We aren't smart.

Who is smart and affordable? Let's hire them.

I feel like UNLV offense + Ohio Bobcat defense is well within our budget "restrictions". Say we literally had that combo and I think we win 8 games this year. Why not raid them like Indiana raided JMU for 13 recruits. I figure getting UNLV OC + 6 players probably costs us 2.5 million total. Getting Ohio DC + 6 players probably costs us 1.5 million total. This year alone we've had 11 million in NIL donations. 4 million (with a large chunk to coach salaries) is reasonable.

Why spend to re-invent the wheel when you can go buy something that works?

[Op4isabitch]

Who is smart and affordable? Let's hire them.

I feel like UNLV offense + Ohio Bobcat defense is well within our budget "restrictions". Say we literally had that combo and I think we win 8 games this year. Why not raid them like Indiana raided JMU for 13 recruits. I figure getting UNLV OC + 6 players probably costs us 2.5 million total. Getting Ohio DC + 6 players probably costs us 1.5 million total. This year alone we've had 11 million in NIL donations. 4 million (with a large chunk to coach salaries) is reasonable.

Why spend to re-invent the wheel when you can go buy something that works?

How about we upgrade our defensive staff and both lines, a few skill position additions and keep what we can of the skill guys currently on the roster? We can afford a lot more but if we aren’t going to spend, then this seems like the route to go IMHO.

[Tater]

How about we upgrade our defensive staff and both lines, a few skill position additions and keep what we can of the skill guys currently on the roster? We can afford a lot more but if we aren’t going to spend, then this seems like the route to go IMHO.

I feel like we said the same things differently. Except you're probably thinking not do the UNLV thing. I think whatever defensive staff we hire, we should take their players too. That's how this NIL world works now for better or worse. It works as a good bridge like in the NFL when DC/OC hires bring in a couple guys that have followed as vets who know the system to help the transition speed up.

[Op4isabitch]

I feel like we said the same things differently. Except you're probably thinking not do the UNLV thing. I think whatever defensive staff we hire, we should take their players too. That's how this NIL world works now for better or worse. It works as a good bridge like in the NFL when DC/OC hires bring in a couple guys that have followed as vets who know the system to help the transition speed up.

After re-reading your post I guess we re mostly in agreement. I’m in no way shape or form calling for changing the HC as some others seem to have done on social media platforms.

[Tater]

After re-reading your post I guess we re mostly in agreement. I’m in no way shape or form calling for changing the HC as some others seem to have done on social media platforms.

Pipe dream. Doing this and raiding Tulane for Sumrall and transfers would be the easiest "quick fix" for those looking to be Indiana next year - but they aren't living in reality. We're giving Lebby 3 years unless we show no improvement and have 3 wins or less next year. He SHOULD be fired if we miss a bowl next year, but reality is showing upward trajectory and a 4/5 win season will keep him for year 3.

Edit: I'm not advocating or even thinking the Sumrall thing would work well. But that's what you do to try to copycat Indiana.

[EdwardDrayton]

Claiming poverty will no longer be relevant with the settlement. Schools will now pay the players with a $23.1 million cap. Collectives apparently will still exist but they too will be regulated in what they can spend. It attempts to achieve fairness but likely will send boosters back to the days of cheating.

[Tough Dawg]

C34 is an idiot when it comes to where we stand $$ wise. He has no connection to the athletic program nor to anything related to fundraising. We?re gonna be ok. The NIL committee/board for MSU is doing good work. 2025 will be better. 2026 will be great.

[CaptainObvious]

C34 is an idiot when it comes to where we stand $$ wise. He has no connection to the athletic program nor to anything related to fundraising. We?re gonna be ok. The NIL committee/board for MSU is doing good work. 2025 will be better. 2026 will be great.

Well to be fair to 34 he was right about Western Kentucky under our reject assistant coaches. They are 8-4 and playing for the CUSA Championship next week!

[DEDawg]

C34 is an idiot when it comes to where we stand $$ wise. He has no connection to the athletic program nor to anything related to fundraising. We?re gonna be ok. The NIL committee/board for MSU is doing good work. 2025 will be better. 2026 will be great.

Got any info you can share? What I am most interested to understand isnt even dollars, but where we are relative to others. If we are top half of the SEC I would be amazed, but I could see being 14 in the SEC is still like 70% of 4th or something like that

[TheLostDawg]

We need to invest in lineman with a couple years remaining. No point in paying for one year next year when we know the outcome isn't going to be great.

[Coursesuper]

Claiming poverty will no longer be relevant with the settlement. Schools will now pay the players with a $23.1 million cap. Collectives apparently will still exist but they too will be regulated in what they can spend. It attempts to achieve fairness but likely will send boosters back to the days of cheating.

Is that $$ for previous years athletes? Or is that current. My understanding was that $$ was going to the players from the past.

[Cooterpoot]

We have shown neither smart nor effective purchasing since John Cohen left for Auburn.

Jesus what a take! The rest I wouldn't argue. Cohen stripped football and basketball to the damn bones for the sake of baseball. He refused to work on NIL outside of baseball. That little liberal 17er will be retired soon at AU too.

[MoreCowbell]

Fair. We have announced some rather large donations. It does sound like we're building an NIL war chest. I actually don't hate the selling out for a big year every 4-5 years strategy to get in the playoff if that's what we're setting up. So in the moneyball regard, if you're expecting this year to suck - don't overspend for a 6-6 when you can save up for a 10-2 in two years is a smart thought. I'm not sure that's what our admin was planning, but I would claim that's my plan if I am them.

I just wish, if they had a plan, that it would be communicated in some way to the fan base. That is most frustrating part is we have no clue what their path forward is and if they even have a plan. Needs to be building towards 2026/2027 seasons right now. I think that is smart.

[MoreCowbell]

Who is smart and affordable? Let's hire them.

I feel like UNLV offense + Ohio Bobcat defense is well within our budget "restrictions". Say we literally had that combo and I think we win 8 games this year. Why not raid them like Indiana raided JMU for 13 recruits. I figure getting UNLV OC + 6 players probably costs us 2.5 million total. Getting Ohio DC + 6 players probably costs us 1.5 million total. This year alone we've had 11 million in NIL donations. 4 million (with a large chunk to coach salaries) is reasonable.

Why spend to re-invent the wheel when you can go buy something that works?

I just think no up and coming coach like UNLVs and Ohio would come here. This is one of the hardest jobs in all of college football and other schools are paying just as much as us. People complain about hiring an OC. It was probably because we had to.

[MoreCowbell]

Pipe dream. Doing this and raiding Tulane for Sumrall and transfers would be the easiest "quick fix" for those looking to be Indiana next year - but they aren't living in reality. We're giving Lebby 3 years unless we show no improvement and have 3 wins or less next year. He SHOULD be fired if we miss a bowl next year, but reality is showing upward trajectory and a 4/5 win season will keep him for year 3.

Edit: I'm not advocating or even thinking the Sumrall thing would work well. But that's what you do to try to copycat Indiana.

Perfect example. I doubt Sumrall would even take our call right now. Why would he?

[Tater]

I just think no up and coming coach like UNLVs and Ohio would come here. This is one of the hardest jobs in all of college football and other schools are paying just as much as us. People complain about hiring an OC. It was probably because we had to.

Indiana was barren.

Colorado was barren.

I just disagree with that sentiment. I said it last year the moment we hired Lebby. I think we had little brother syndrome steering the ship and wanted to copy Ole Miss's "fun offense". That's what some of the folks footing the bill paid for.

Barry Odom begged just to get an interview and we didn't. Sumrall was a smokescreen. Tulane was not a better job monetarily for him. Anyone who came here knew they had 3 years to right the ship and if rumors of 10 mil in NIL were coming as well - you could compete for recruits.

[Tater]

I just wish, if they had a plan, that it would be communicated in some way to the fan base. That is most frustrating part is we have no clue what their path forward is and if they even have a plan. Needs to be building towards 2026/2027 seasons right now. I think that is smart.

While I agree - hard to say you're already punting on 2025.

[Tater]

Jesus what a take! The rest I wouldn't argue. Cohen stripped football and basketball to the damn bones for the sake of baseball. He refused to work on NIL outside of baseball. That little liberal 17er will be retired soon at AU too.

Said this earlier in the thread and am assuming you stopped after I clarified. I didn't mean for that to read that John Cohen was doing these things. I meant it to frame who we have now and how to review them.

[Pancho]

dam sure better over pay for football players since the staff is still intact. Lotta guys look like good coaches when they have the better talent.

[QuadrupleOption]

Yet the MSU foundation has almost $200million more in its coffers than the UM foundation does, we also have more Billionaire Alums while MSU grads make more $$$ on avg than UM grads.

So what exactly is our issue?

Assuming this is true, here's how I'd approach it:
1) Keep fundraising NIL to get to ~$350-400 million in the next 2-3 years.
2) Invest the bulk of it into interest-bearing accounts.
3) Assuming 6% return on $400 million, that gives you $24 million per year to spend on NIL. You can use it all (and keep fundraising efforts in place) or cap it at $20 million across all sports and bank the excess (which will raise your budget every year as that money generates interest).
4) Keep raising money or wait until the school is required to pay athletes out their TV deals. We'll be able to supplement to build teams that can take a shot every few years.

Other programs will do this too, if they're smart (and they are) but it's the only way to support NIL long-term. Once you build up the nest egg and pay primarily out of the interest on the account(s) you can maybe go back to saner support for athletics.