Sunday Morning Thoughts-Hello Darkness My Old Friend

[StarkVegasSteve]

Another disappointing day in a disappointing season in a disappointing last 23 months. I really do not know another way to describe it. We are at as close to the bottom as we can get and Friday at about 4:30 PM we will be at the bottom.

1. Before we tackle the game let me go ahead and get this out of the way, Ole Miss is going to skull us. There is no denying this. They could play with their backups and beat us by 5 TDs. They will make the 08 Egg Bowl look close.

2. We need to bring in a transfer to compete with Van Buren and Taylor. I have been saying this for 6 weeks and I will continue to say it. Whether that be Jackson Arnold, John Mateer, Preston Stone, Ty Simpson, Miller Moss, etc.

3. Van Buren shows flashes that he could be IT and then he shows flashes that Parson should be playing. He still has pocket presence issues, tends to sail the ball on deep balls, and has no touch on short passes. I understand that the line is an issue, we?ll get to that, but he struggles in the pocket. I really thought yesterday was probably his worst game. He may be a Freshman by classification, but he is not a Freshman anymore. He has started for over a half season in the SEC and he is still having the same issues.

4. It really sucks we are losing Booth. He really has found his stride later in the year and has been a big bright spot for us. We need this effort for 12 games from a back next year.

5. Our line seems to have figured out the run blocking stuff, but still struggle in pass pro. I do think some of the issues are Van Buren not knowing how to move in the pocket, but there are times where the pocket collapses within 2 seconds of Van Buren getting the ball. We also have to replace some spots in the offseason and really need more Ethan Miner types out of the portal over Marlon Martinez.

6. Our D is bad. There is legit no way around it. I have no clue if we will move off Hutzler. I do still think we move him to STC and bring in a DC while getting new position coaches but I have no definitive answer. I thought again we were in decent position at times yesterday but could not break down or finish the play. I mean we had Cook dead to rights for a sack and instead he escapes and gets a 1st down.

7. The biggest reason our D is bad is we have no talent in the front 4 and very little talent in the back 7. I mean our front 4 gets ZERO push. It is why they were able to run the ball 50 times yesterday and just keep the ball. They had lineman getting second level with ease.

8. Find a way to keep Coleman. He is our best receiver. Also, give him the ball 30 times next week. Either with speed sweeps, go balls, slants, screens, etc. He is the only person on our team who has straight up breakaway speed.

9. Someone please tell Craver to get his head out of his ass. We already have had to renegotiate his NIL once and really do not need to be dealing with more problems. He will probably enter the portal so be ready for that. I am not saying he is gone, but do not be surprised if he enters.

10. Lebby may need to bring in an actual OC. He can still have a heavy hand in the offense but at the end of the day he is the HC. Heck Mullen called plays but still had an OC every year. Lane has an OC, Freeze has an OC.

11. This is a fixable situation. I am not saying we will be 8-4 or 9-3 next year but we can get to 6-6 or even 7-5. We need to focus our portal efforts first and foremost on defense. You obviously take offensive guys where you can get them, but do not go out and overpay for more offensive firepower at the expense of a DL or DB that we desperately need.

12. I completely understand if people do not want to donate to NIL, but it is the only way back at this point. GIVE. There is no Larry Ellison coming to save us.

13. Brighter days are ahead. We are going to have to work to get there but it can be done.

HailState

[civildawg]

Let craver go if he tries to bend us over on NIL money. We have too many holes to worry about a pretty good WR

[EdwardDrayton]

Nice song reference. The Disturbed cover is good if you haven't heard it.

[sandjunky]

I?d say the football program is near dead.

[Todd4State]

Excellent post. I agree on all points and hope you are correct about Hutzler.

[RockyDog]

I?d say the football program is near dead.

As we are probably the dumbest, most woe is me fan base in the SEC, it’s probably deserved.

[AROB44]

As we are probably the dumbest, most woe is me fan base in the SEC, it?s probably deserved.

Yep....always wanting to fire somebody or everybody.

[Todd4State]

Yep....always wanting to fire somebody or everybody.

We don't have a problem with coaches that are performing well.

To me the issue is making dumbass risky moves like hiring an inexperienced DC with an inexperienced head coach.

[Todd4State]

If Oklahoma moves on from Joe Jon Finley as interim OC then that would be the obvious thing to do.

[Rawdawg]

On number 11, in the era of the transfer portal the amount of JUCO kids were after and likely going to bring in is terrifying.

[Brobi-wan]

I?d say the football program is near dead.

All of y’all type this like ScUM didn’t lose to Jacksonville state at home and then have their head coach run off for hiring hookers in the same decade.

[BankerDog]

On number 11, in the era of the transfer portal the amount of JUCO kids were after and likely going to bring in is terrifying.

Our old boosters say it?s the way to go! We have to!

[No BS Dawg]

Lebby commented that he was happy with the improvement on defense and what the coaches were doing. May well be coach speak for the time being, but that is Croomeasque talk.

Unless there are several Damascus Road transformations in players, coaching, scheduling, and all intangibles possible, there is little reason to think there will be 6+ wins next year. I love optimism, but reality trumps that. See this year as an example. This is one of the least talented and poorest coached MSU teams we have had in a while.

I hope Lebby acts like a CEO and cuts the dead weight and finds experienced guys to start righting the ship.

[Coursesuper]

On #11, I very seriously doubt that the 25 team will reach 6 or 7 wins. We play the same schedule flipped in 25. 7 from the current top 20 at present. We have more holes to fill than any other team on the continent and not filling them quickly enough. This is basketball from Rick Ray bad and will take more time than yall think. I hope that we can begin to show some life in 26 and at least be consistent in 27.

[gtowndawg]

I have a theory...if we make no real coaching changes on defense (should make an o line change too) then behind the scenes they already know Lebby can't get it done. It's very likely we will go winless in the SEC next year too and there will be major heat to fire the whole staff. Why buy coaches out now (if buyout rumors are true) if they know they will all be fired a year from now anyway? That's the only thing I'm paying attention to at this point.

And yes, I firmly believe if he goes 0-16 in the SEC he will be fired after year two (and he should be).

[Bothrops]

The ceiling next year is probably 4-5 wins unless the defense is retooled. Even then it's probably 5-6 W's

[parabrave]

About the pipe dream of getting a high priced transfer QB, BTW Arnold looks more like Nicky Fitz and Dan isn't coaching here no more, how about a decent QB Coach who can teach and develop MVB. Spend our resources on a Line and LBs and DBs. We can get the most talented D in the world but it wouldn't matter because the entire D Coaching staff sucks. The scheme is awful and to make matters worse they are poorly coached. The pass defenders have no clue on what to do or who to cover on every play. It looks like a asian country fire drill every time they drop back to defend the pass. And just what in the heck are the safeties doing on the long routes/ 14 last night looked totally clueless on what to do dam near every play. And that is entirely on coaching.

[NCDawg]

I don't think we've made any progress in any facets of the game this season. We could have done just as well keeping Arnett as coach for zero SEC wins and saved a lot of money besides.

[Bothrops]

I don't think we've made any progress in any facets of the game this season. We could have done just as well keeping Arnett as coach for zero SEC wins and saved a lot of money besides.

Our offense would have been much worse under Arnett.

[gtowndawg]

Our offense would have been much worse under Arnett.

But our defense would have been better under Arnett (my gosh I just threw up in my mouth a little).

[TrapGame]

If Lebby keeps Hutzler as DC he will be fired next year for going two years with zero SEC wins. Not even Croom could do that.

[Todd4State]

On #11, I very seriously doubt that the 25 team will reach 6 or 7 wins. We play the same schedule flipped in 25. 7 from the current top 20 at present. We have more holes to fill than any other team on the continent and not filling them quickly enough. This is basketball from Rick Ray bad and will take more time than yall think. I hope that we can begin to show some life in 26 and at least be consistent in 27.

Really depends on how well we do in the portal. We could be much better or just as bad depending on that and how those players pan out. Hopefully we attack the portal harder than we attack JUCO.

[Todd4State]

If Lebby keeps Hutzler as DC he will be fired next year for going two years with zero SEC wins. Not even Croom could do that.

And I guarantee you that if we do that we will bring in some people with some experience. MSU has to stop making the same mistakes over and over. And yes they will have to overpay to get someone with experience before anyone says it.

[Jacknut]

Lol, save me the drama. I was a student from 85-89 and also managed to live through the Croom Error. Tell me again how our program is dead. I gave Hutzler the benefit of the doubt at first, but if Lebby wants to stay, Hutz gotta go. Still can't believe we brought in a first time coach and doubled down with defensive position guy as DC.

[Coursesuper]

Really depends on how well we do in the portal. We could be much better or just as bad depending on that and how those players pan out. Hopefully we attack the portal harder than we attack JUCO.

You continue to feel like this can change quickly with a portal haul. That is part of how we rebuild but it alone will not fix this mess it is much deeper than one portal class can help. It can help to get this on the right track, but we are without talent literally everywhere and even though this team continues to play hard ( which is a credit to this staff) there are just not enough players and zero depth. Depth is our killer. This will all take time and a foundation has to be built and that will take time.

[EdwardDrayton]

This is not a quick Viagra fix. Settle in fellas; not sure Lebby is the guy but let's give him time to show the wood.

[Coursesuper]

This is not a quick Viagra fix. Settle in fellas; not sure Lebby is the guy but let's give him time to show the wood.

Definitely gonna take time.

[Coach34]

Lebbo is appearing to dig in on Hutzler.

So get ready for him to be DC again next year unless they have a deal for him to move to STC.

We have had our 2 year reshuffle now. 2025 needs to see progress and a vision moving forward.

But when you see Michigan announce they are comitting $50MM per year moving forward- its over. All this shit is done. We cannot compete with big budget college football

[Todd4State]

You continue to feel like this can change quickly with a portal haul. That is part of how we rebuild but it alone will not fix this mess it is much deeper than one portal class can help. It can help to get this on the right track, but we are without talent literally everywhere and even though this team continues to play hard ( which is a credit to this staff) there are just not enough players and zero depth. Depth is our killer. This will all take time and a foundation has to be built and that will take time.

It absolutely could turn around with the right players and a new DC. Will that happen? It remains to be seen. If we do well enough to get to 6-6 then that's fine I'll take it at this point. And then build from there. If Vanderbilt can go from 2-10 to 6-6 in one season there is no reason why we can't. If we get good enough talent we could even go beyond 6-6 and maybe with a little luck.

If we go cheap and bring back Hutzler then no it won't happen. That doesn't mean it couldn't happen or shouldn't.

[Todd4State]

Lebbo is appearing to dig in on Hutzler.

So get ready for him to be DC again next year unless they have a deal for him to move to STC.

We have had our 2 year reshuffle now. 2025 needs to see progress and a vision moving forward.

But when you see Michigan announce they are comitting $50MM per year moving forward- it's over. All this shit is done. We cannot compete with big budget college football

He might as well set his seat on fire after the Egg Bowl if he brings him back then.

Our best hope is that he is either bluffing to look like a good boss or that Selmon and the boosters step in.

Just hard for me to believe that a football coach could stand there on the sideline and think "yeah give him more time" while our defense is an absolute turnstile.

[Coursesuper]

It absolutely could turn around with the right players and a new DC. Will that happen? It remains to be seen. If we do well enough to get to 6-6 then that's fine I'll take it at this point. And then build from there. If Vanderbilt can go from 2-10 to 6-6 in one season there is no reason why we can't. If we get good enough talent we could even go beyond 6-6 and maybe with a little luck.

If we go cheap and bring back Hutzler then no it won't happen. That doesn't mean it couldn't happen or shouldn't.

Like I've stated previously, not many here understand the dumpster fire that is our football program. There are a lot of fingers pointed at who is at fault and most have pointed the finger in the direction of the easy targets and missed the real target. The major blame for us needs to laid at the feet of a few entitled 17ing boosters who felt that they have right to do as they wish. I might have sit back and " ok, go with it, FA and FO mutha 17ers " if I were in the leaderships place. Understand we were below rock bottom when that booster staff was shown the door. Things haven't been this bad in your lifetime. We are at Art Davis, Charlie Shira bad. We needed not only players but a complete culture change basically a complete flush of the system to wash away the putrescence of that booster staff. Couple that with the dumbassery of a the previous AD 's views on NIL and many other things and it's the perfect shit storm at exactly the wrong time. I wish that we could pull out of this with an single portal class I really do. And if by some miracle we could pull a 6-6, my happy ass will be in Birmingham drinking at Good Peoples and dining at Helen before freezing my butt off at the game. I don't know if this staff is the one to turn this around, the team is still playing hard, that's a credit to them. But in my opinion there are miles and miles to go to even see the light at the end of the tunnel.

[SPMT]

Like I've stated previously, not many here understand the dumpster fire that is our football program. There are a lot of fingers pointed at who is at fault and most have pointed the finger in the direction of the easy targets and missed the real target. The major blame for us needs to laid at the feet of a few entitled 17ing boosters who felt that they have right to do as they wish. I might have sit back and " ok, go with it, FA and FO mutha 17ers " if I were in the leaderships place. Understand we were below rock bottom when that booster staff was shown the door. Things haven't been this bad in your lifetime. We are at Art Davis, Charlie Shira bad. We needed not only players but a complete culture change basically a complete flush of the system to wash away the putrescence of that booster staff. Couple that with the dumbassery of a the previous AD 's views on NIL and many other things and it's the perfect shit storm at exactly the wrong time. I wish that we could pull out of this with an single portal class I really do. And if by some miracle we could pull a 6-6, my happy ass will be in Birmingham drinking at Good Peoples and dining at Helen before freezing my butt off at the game. I don't know if this staff is the one to turn this around, the team is still playing hard, that's a credit to them. But in my opinion there are miles and miles to go to even see the light at the end of the tunnel.

Are these booster from the old guard, like in the 70s+ or younger?

Woh are these rogue boosters ruining our program? Name them.

[StarkVegasSteve]

Are these booster from the old guard, like in the 70s+ or younger?

Woh are these rogue boosters ruining our program? Name them.

It is a mix of young and old. A group of Madison Co boosters is one of the problems. They were definitely pushing the Arnett hire. They like going to sit up at Two Brothers and the coaches telling them how cool they are.

[Dawgology]

Lebbo is appearing to dig in on Hutzler.

So get ready for him to be DC again next year unless they have a deal for him to move to STC.

We have had our 2 year reshuffle now. 2025 needs to see progress and a vision moving forward.

But when you see Michigan announce they are comitting $50MM per year moving forward- its over. All this shit is done. We cannot compete with big budget college football

As I posted Saturday, the fat lady has sung. It's over for the foreseeable future. We will be out of the big leagues after realignment. Once we are relegated, we will probably have a decent G5 (or whatever its replacement is) football program. I KNOW that no one wants to hear it and I hate typing it. Even with firing Lebby once he goes winless in the SEC in year two, the SAME people that hired Arnett and Lebby will be making the next hire (surprise, it's not our AD), so it will be more of the same lack of long-term strategy type of hire. I mean, think about this, without Charlie MSU would still be trying to figure out NIL... contemplate that for a bit. That's the people (administration and boosters) that are "leading" this program right now.

[gtowndawg]

It is a mix of young and old. A group of Madison Co boosters is one of the problems. They were definitely pushing the Arnett hire. They like going to sit up at Two Brothers and the coaches telling them how cool they are.

I honestly don't understand the mindset of wanting access and some control over a program that's literally embarrassing. I mean who wants to brag about that?

[StarkVegasSteve]

I honestly don't understand the mindset of wanting access and some control over a program that's literally embarrassing. I mean who wants to brag about that?

Go to the bar at Reunion, CCJ, Annandale, etc and you will see them. Go to Taste, 44 Prime, or Two Brothers when you're in Starkville and you'll see them there too. They love to brag about knowing the players and the coaches and all the "inside info" they have. It's a bunch of baseball boosters that Byrne and Stricklin told to 17 off and Cohen let them back in and let them have control. And let me tell you, the baseball boosters are a WEIRD bunch. They openly brag about taking the players and their girlfriends out to get drunk, snapchat with them, text with the girlfriends.....IT'S WEIRD.

Like Dawgology said, without Charlie Winfield(god bless that man) our NIL would be peddling autographed baseballs. Every stupid decision made from 2016 on leads back to one person. John Cohen. If you have to ask yourself why we are in the mess we are in.....John Cohen.

Want to know why we have no LED lights in football and shitty sound system but baseball has both......John Cohen

Want to know why we put lipstick on a pig in basketball, but baseball already has renovation plans for a 6 year old stadium....John Cohen

Want to know why we were 24-36 months behind EVERYONE ELSE with NIL until Charlie put it in overdrive.....John Cohen


And you know who put John Cohen in charge? Those same boosters I am talking about plus a few more who just wanted to be able to call the AD so their box could get some new stuff

[Goldendawg]

As I posted Saturday, the fat lady has sung. It's over for the foreseeable future. We will be out of the big leagues after realignment. Once we are relegated, we will probably have a decent G5 (or whatever its replacement is) football program. I KNOW that no one wants to hear it and I hate typing it. Even with firing Lebby once he goes winless in the SEC in year two, the SAME people that hired Arnett and Lebby will be making the next hire (surprise, it's not our AD), so it will be more of the same lack of long-term strategy type of hire. I mean, think about this, without Charlie MSU would still be trying to figure out NIL... contemplate that for a bit. That's the people (administration and boosters) that are "leading" this program right now.

This is now two years in a row our "leaders" have signed off on HC who had never held the position who hired a DC who had also never held the position. Also in year two of an "On the Job Training" AD. This is however not new for us for decades. How many times have we hired a successful AD, HC, or coordinators from some level to fill our positions? It's usually Asst AD's, in house promotions, (Templeton, Cohen,etc) Coordinators for HC etc. Then we expect different successful results. I have been going in person as an eight year old in 1963. I am not pulling every BIO since then, but the only successful Asst AD success that comes to mind as AD for us is Byrne, (Stricklin in some ways) and former OC to successful HC are Tyler and Mullen. I think the jury will be in on Libby at the end of year two. BTW, we have now not won a home SEC game in two years. Lots of not so cheap empty seats around me in Section 4 this year and people don't look forward to spending big $ to go to Starkville to see the new lighting system or iisten to the new sound system. They want to see an entertaining product on the field that competes and wins more than it loses. I have seen little to no improvement on the field except WR this year. How do you build a foundation after 2-10 and except anyone to buy season tickets expect hardcore fans? This is the Shira years 2.0 and I never thought I would experience this level of failure and incompetence from the top ton in my lifetime again.

[Coursesuper]

It is a mix of young and old. A group of Madison Co boosters is one of the problems. They were definitely pushing the Arnett hire. They like going to sit up at Two Brothers and the coaches telling them how cool they are.

This is correct. We are poor mans Auburn.

[StarkVegasSteve]

This is now two years in a row our "leaders" have signed off on HC who had never held the position who hired a DC who had also never held the position. Also in year two of an "On the Job Training" AD. This is however not new for us for decades. How many times have we hired a successful AD, HC, or coordinators from some level to fill our positions? It's usually Asst AD's, in house promotions, (Templeton, Cohen,etc) Coordinators for HC etc. Then we expect different successful results.

I mean Byrne and Stricklin were both Asst. ADs. Selmon is going to be good. But y'all are going to have to give him more than 22 months, especially in this new environment and how bad our athletic dept was being run under Cohen. He has had to take the athletic dept down to the studs. I don't think some of y'all get how bad it was. We had people in 6 figure salary jobs that didn't know how to do the job were being paid for. Selmon almost quit within a week because of how bad it was. He never wanted Arnett and made that known. He thought Arnett was a bad football coach. He said he had no clue how to run a program, and he was right. And had the boosters gotten their pick of who they wanted our AD would've been Jared Benko who just left Ga Southern, AS THE AD, to go be with Cohen and be an asst AD.

[StarkVegasSteve]

This is correct. We are poor mans Auburn.

No we're a lot worse. At least they have uniformity behind Rane and Lowder. We got Adkerson that pays for basically everything, who doesn't say anything about how much he gives and a bunch of boosters under him fighting to tell everyone how much they donate.

[Coursesuper]

No we're a lot worse. At least they have uniformity behind Rane and Lowder. We got Adkerson that pays for basically everything, who doesn't say anything about how much he gives and a bunch of boosters under him fighting to tell everyone how much they donate.

You make great point there. But we are similar in that we like them are driven by the dumbassery of a few boosters that have a gigantic case of LDS with the confederates.

[StarkVegasSteve]

You make great point there. But we are similar in that we like them are driven by the dumbassery of a few boosters that have a gigantic case of LDS with the confederates.

Now that is correct. We have no uniformity. We have 25-30 boosters that if they weren't giving such large checks, Selmon would tell them to kick rocks and go support Delta St. Selmon has thankfully eschewed them to the edges like Mullen and Byrne did.

[Goldendawg]

I mean Byrne and Stricklin were both Asst. ADs. Selmon is going to be good. But y'all are going to have to give him more than 22 months, especially in this new environment and how bad our athletic dept was being run under Cohen. He has had to take the athletic dept down to the studs. I don't think some of y'all get how bad it was. We had people in 6 figure salary jobs that didn't know how to do the job were being paid for. Selmon almost quit within a week because of how bad it was. He never wanted Arnett and made that known. He thought Arnett was a bad football coach. He said he had no clue how to run a program, and he was right. And had the boosters gotten their pick of who they wanted our AD would've been Jared Benko who just left Ga Southern, AS THE AD, to go be with Cohen and be an asst AD.

I was editing my post twice. I did point out in my opinion that Byrne (very successful) at State and Strickland (somewhat successful in some ways) were hired by us from the Asst AD ranks. I don't know anyone that misses the "Templeton Troughs".***** Very few HC's from other programs hired to be our HC in my lifetime.

[TrapGame]

I mean Byrne and Stricklin were both Asst. ADs. Selmon is going to be good. But y'all are going to have to give him more than 22 months, especially in this new environment and how bad our athletic dept was being run under Cohen. He has had to take the athletic dept down to the studs. I don't think some of y'all get how bad it was. We had people in 6 figure salary jobs that didn't know how to do the job were being paid for. Selmon almost quit within a week because of how bad it was. He never wanted Arnett and made that known. He thought Arnett was a bad football coach. He said he had no clue how to run a program, and he was right. And had the boosters gotten their pick of who they wanted our AD would've been Jared Benko who just left Ga Southern, AS THE AD, to go be with Cohen and be an asst AD.

And people wonder why our football program is so bad now. This has been building since Cohen hired JoMo and told all the other potential candidates "It's over. We found our guy."

[Coursesuper]

And people wonder why our football program is so bad now. This has been building since Cohen hired JoMo and told all the other potential candidates "It's over. We found our guy."

Exactly! So thank the same bunch we have been talking about for all of this. It's all at their feet.

[StarkVegasSteve]

And people wonder why our football program is so bad now. This has been building since Cohen hired JoMo and told all the other potential candidates "It's over. We found our guy."

And just as a reminder…Kyle Whittingham and Mark Stoops both were trying to get in the mix for our job in 17.

[SPMT]

Lebbo is appearing to dig in on Hutzler.

So get ready for him to be DC again next year unless they have a deal for him to move to STC.

We have had our 2 year reshuffle now. 2025 needs to see progress and a vision moving forward.

But when you see Michigan announce they are comitting $50MM per year moving forward- its over. All this shit is done. We cannot compete with big budget college football

At this point he?s not firing Hutzler.

[SPMT]

Go to the bar at Reunion, CCJ, Annandale, etc and you will see them. Go to Taste, 44 Prime, or Two Brothers when you're in Starkville and you'll see them there too. They love to brag about knowing the players and the coaches and all the "inside info" they have. It's a bunch of baseball boosters that Byrne and Stricklin told to 17 off and Cohen let them back in and let them have control. And let me tell you, the baseball boosters are a WEIRD bunch. They openly brag about taking the players and their girlfriends out to get drunk, snapchat with them, text with the girlfriends.....IT'S WEIRD.

Like Dawgology said, without Charlie Winfield(god bless that man) our NIL would be peddling autographed baseballs. Every stupid decision made from 2016 on leads back to one person. John Cohen. If you have to ask yourself why we are in the mess we are in.....John Cohen.

Want to know why we have no LED lights in football and shitty sound system but baseball has both......John Cohen

Want to know why we put lipstick on a pig in basketball, but baseball already has renovation plans for a 6 year old stadium....John Cohen

Want to know why we were 24-36 months behind EVERYONE ELSE with NIL until Charlie put it in overdrive.....John Cohen


And you know who put John Cohen in charge? Those same boosters I am talking about plus a few more who just wanted to be able to call the AD so their box could get some new stuff

That?s pitifully sad. I can understand some of the anting to know the ins and outs of a program if you give a lot, I?m not interested, but I get it. People in general like to know a secret others don?t know. Access scratches that itch.

I do not understand why anyone would want to ?call the shots?.

What a bunch of dumb 17 donors think they know about calling shots in a sport because they have a good construction business will always baffle me.

[StarkVegasSteve]

That?s pitifully sad. I can understand some of the anting to know the ins and outs of a program if you give a lot, I?m not interested, but I get it. People in general like to know a secret others don?t know. Access scratches that itch.

I do not understand why anyone would want to ?call the shots?.

What a bunch of dumb 17 donors think they know about calling shots in a sport because they have a good construction business will always baffle me.

Go on Twitter. That's our entire fanbase. It doesn't matter if it's $5 fans or 5 million dollar fans. Today I've seen people who claim they are quote "True Maroon Bulldogs" literally posting that they will not support the program if we don't fire Coleman Hutzler and tagging Zac Selmon. I mean recruits see that. It makes us look awful.

And I understand that every fan base has a sect of crazies that does stuff like that but it just seems like our fanbase takes it to the next level. Like other fan bases get mad on Gameday and then it's over by Sunday afternoon. Our fanbase is still tweeting, Facebooking, posting, etc about things that happened 5 weeks ago.

This is what I'm talking about when I say that we have a disjointed fanbase. A majority of our fanbase, or at least the loud majority, wants to put out for the world to see everything Mississippi State does wrong. I hardly ever see anything positive about Mississippi State from our fanbase. It's always what we're doing wrong.

[gtowndawg]

Go on Twitter. That's our entire fanbase. It doesn't matter if it's $5 fans or 5 million dollar fans. Today I've seen people who claim they are quote "True Maroon Bulldogs" literally posting that they will not support the program if we don't fire Coleman Hutzler and tagging Zac Selmon. I mean recruits see that. It makes us look awful.

And I understand that every fan base has a sect of crazies that does stuff like that but it just seems like our fanbase takes it to the next level. Like other fan bases get mad on Gameday and then it's over by Sunday afternoon. Our fanbase is still tweeting, Facebooking, posting, etc about things that happened 5 weeks ago.

This is what I'm talking about when I say that we have a disjointed fanbase. A majority of our fanbase, or at least the loud majority, wants to put out for the world to see everything Mississippi State does wrong. I hardly ever see anything positive about Mississippi State from our fanbase. It's always what we're doing wrong.

I've mentioned this before but what's wrong with our "fans" is they are not fans. I know many pepople here in the Memphis area that will bring up the "Bulldawgs" when I run into them but they haven't been to a game in years, they don't give anything and they barely know our coaches name (seriously). I just don't get it. Why are Ole Miss grads brainwashed and ours forget we have a football team after they leave? It's bizarre.

[Coursesuper]

Go on Twitter. That's our entire fanbase. It doesn't matter if it's $5 fans or 5 million dollar fans. Today I've seen people who claim they are quote "True Maroon Bulldogs" literally posting that they will not support the program if we don't fire Coleman Hutzler and tagging Zac Selmon. I mean recruits see that. It makes us look awful.

And I understand that every fan base has a sect of crazies that does stuff like that but it just seems like our fanbase takes it to the next level. Like other fan bases get mad on Gameday and then it's over by Sunday afternoon. Our fanbase is still tweeting, Facebooking, posting, etc about things that happened 5 weeks ago.

This is what I'm talking about when I say that we have a disjointed fanbase. A majority of our fanbase, or at least the loud majority, wants to put out for the world to see everything Mississippi State does wrong. I hardly ever see anything positive about Mississippi State from our fanbase. It's always what we're doing wrong.

I'm so glad that there are those that can see what we have been witnessing for years. We will act against our own self interest regularly just so a few can brag about their escapades in Starkville. It's pathetic. But don't think that they haven't had help, they have. They outmaneuvered the AD search to get Cohen in.

[SPMT]

I've mentioned this before but what's wrong with our "fans" is they are not fans. I know many pepople here in the Memphis area that will bring up the "Bulldawgs" when I run into them but they haven't been to a game in years, they don't give anything and they barely know our coaches name (seriously). I just don't get it. Why are Ole Miss grads brainwashed and ours forget we have a football team after they leave? It's bizarre.

I think people get burned out. The university has shot itself in the foot many times (like is being discussed on here now) that people just throw up their hands.

But the mindset does seem different right now.

[StarkVegasSteve]

I've mentioned this before but what's wrong with our "fans" is they are not fans. I know many pepople here in the Memphis area that will bring up the "Bulldawgs" when I run into them but they haven't been to a game in years, they don't give anything and they barely know our coaches name (seriously). I just don't get it. Why are Ole Miss grads brainwashed and ours forget we have a football team after they leave? It's bizarre.

Because they have this weird new concept called Alumni Outreach. A lot of schools are trying it out. Mississippi State is in a wait and see approach. I wish I was kidding. Ole Miss keeps up with their alumni and makes it a big deal to come back to campus for a few weekends in the fall and spring.

Mississippi State doesn't care. They could care less if young alumni came back. I mean I'm lucky enough that we have a condo in Starkville and have season tickets to everything or it would be almost impossible to come to games and enjoy them. Tickets aren't a problem, at least right now, but I mean where the hell are you supposed to stay in Starkville? There's 6 hotels and the team takes one of them and then there's a couple of fleabag motels, but I mean that's just not enough for a college town on a gameday weekend. I mean if I'm the University, I'm running gameday shuttles to hotels in Columbus and West Point. Hell, I'd be running charter buses to hotels in Meridian, Grenada, and even Jackson. Make it accessible for people to get there and they may be more willing to come. And that goes past just young alumni, that goes to out of state fans or even in state fans that may not live close to Starkville. I mean Mississippi State could EASILY afford to do that. Hell, Everett would probably cut them a deal on the buses.

[BigDawg81]

Go on Twitter. That's our entire fanbase. It doesn't matter if it's $5 fans or 5 million dollar fans. Today I've seen people who claim they are quote "True Maroon Bulldogs" literally posting that they will not support the program if we don't fire Coleman Hutzler and tagging Zac Selmon. I mean recruits see that. It makes us look awful.

And I understand that every fan base has a sect of crazies that does stuff like that but it just seems like our fanbase takes it to the next level. Like other fan bases get mad on Gameday and then it's over by Sunday afternoon. Our fanbase is still tweeting, Facebooking, posting, etc about things that happened 5 weeks ago.

This is what I'm talking about when I say that we have a disjointed fanbase. A majority of our fanbase, or at least the loud majority, wants to put out for the world to see everything Mississippi State does wrong. I hardly ever see anything positive about Mississippi State from our fanbase. It's always what we're doing wrong. I think that is fans that wants to voice their frustrations and Twitter is their only place to voice their frustrations and for it to be heard. They are not big donors but they do contribute to NIL as much as they can. I cannot say that I blame them for voicing their frustrations.
Also to add, you have people like the Bus Driver telling people shut up. Yea and that doesn?t work. That pisses them off more

[StarkVegasSteve]

I think that?s fans that wants to voice their frustrations and Twitter is their only place to voice their frustrations and for it to be heard. They?re not big donors but they do contribute to NIL as much as they can. I can?t say that I blame them for voicing their frustrations.

Don't do it on social media for the freaking world to see. Recruits see that shit. Transfer portal targets see that shit. If you want to bitch and complain then send an email. There's just as good of a chance he'll respond to that as you tweeting at the damn AD. I mean we got people trying to torpedo the damn program for 3 likes and his group message to tell him he's a bad ass. It's just more loser mentality from our fanbase.

[Brobi-wan]

Because they have this weird new concept called Alumni Outreach. A lot of schools are trying it out. Mississippi State is in a wait and see approach. I wish I was kidding. Ole Miss keeps up with their alumni and makes it a big deal to come back to campus for a few weekends in the fall and spring.

Mississippi State doesn't care. They could care less if young alumni came back. I mean I'm lucky enough that we have a condo in Starkville and have season tickets to everything or it would be almost impossible to come to games and enjoy them. Tickets aren't a problem, at least right now, but I mean where the hell are you supposed to stay in Starkville? There's 6 hotels and the team takes one of them and then there's a couple of fleabag motels, but I mean that's just not enough for a college town on a gameday weekend. I mean if I'm the University, I'm running gameday shuttles to hotels in Columbus and West Point. Hell, I'd be running charter buses to hotels in Meridian, Grenada, and even Jackson. Make it accessible for people to get there and they may be more willing to come. And that goes past just young alumni, that goes to out of state fans or even in state fans that may not live close to Starkville. I mean Mississippi State could EASILY afford to do that. Hell, Everett would probably cut them a deal on the buses.


I’m from Meridian. We get a TON of business hotel wise from teams that play us. The drive is easy to Stark and there’s more places to eat here. It makes sense for people to stay, but if my girlfriend wasn’t a senior, I would be driving back and forth every game…that’s certainly way less enjoyable than actually being able to do something after the games. Starkville definitely needs some better bars though. The fact the district closes at 1 is insane. I work 5 days a week and I stay up until 1 almost every night. Starkville City council must also all sit on the SBC. SHEESH

[Cooterpoot]

I?m from Meridian. We get a TON of business hotel wise from teams that play us. The drive is easy to Stark and there?s more places to eat here. It makes sense for people to stay, but if my girlfriend wasn?t a senior, I would be driving back and forth every game?that?s certainly way less enjoyable than actually being able to do something after the games. Starkville definitely needs some better bars though. The fact the district closes at 1 is insane. I work 5 days a week and I stay up until 1 almost every night. Starkville City council must also all sit on the SBC. SHEESH

If you think Meridian is better than Starkville, you've lost your damn mind lol. Meridian is plus size Newton.

[Brobi-wan]

If you think Meridian is better than Starkville, you've lost your damn mind lol. Meridian is plus size Newton.

As a whole? Not even close, but it’s way better equipped to house overnight stayers than Starkville is. There’s no night life in Meridian unless you’re a gangbanger, but closing college bars down at 1 on Friday night is early. Tuscaloosa keeps them open until 3. Meridian is a sh!thole for sure, but that does not change the fact that Starkville bar scene is also lacking. Meridian is beyond saving. Starkville has a lot of untapped potential and can improve

[SPMT]

I?m from Meridian. We get a TON of business hotel wise from teams that play us. The drive is easy to Stark and there?s more places to eat here. It makes sense for people to stay, but if my girlfriend wasn?t a senior, I would be driving back and forth every game?that?s certainly way less enjoyable than actually being able to do something after the games. Starkville definitely needs some better bars though. The fact the district closes at 1 is insane. I work 5 days a week and I stay up until 1 almost every night. Starkville City council must also all sit on the SBC. SHEESH

Starkville City Council are a bunch of blowhard career politician types. There?s one young lady who seems solid.

[Jarius]

Go to the bar at Reunion, CCJ, Annandale, etc and you will see them. Go to Taste, 44 Prime, or Two Brothers when you're in Starkville and you'll see them there too. They love to brag about knowing the players and the coaches and all the "inside info" they have. It's a bunch of baseball boosters that Byrne and Stricklin told to 17 off and Cohen let them back in and let them have control. And let me tell you, the baseball boosters are a WEIRD bunch. They openly brag about taking the players and their girlfriends out to get drunk, snapchat with them, text with the girlfriends.....IT'S WEIRD.

Like Dawgology said, without Charlie Winfield(god bless that man) our NIL would be peddling autographed baseballs. Every stupid decision made from 2016 on leads back to one person. John Cohen. If you have to ask yourself why we are in the mess we are in.....John Cohen.

Want to know why we have no LED lights in football and shitty sound system but baseball has both......John Cohen

Want to know why we put lipstick on a pig in basketball, but baseball already has renovation plans for a 6 year old stadium....John Cohen

Want to know why we were 24-36 months behind EVERYONE ELSE with NIL until Charlie put it in overdrive.....John Cohen


And you know who put John Cohen in charge? Those same boosters I am talking about plus a few more who just wanted to be able to call the AD so their box could get some new stuff



There are a lot of things wrong with our athletics department but the overwhelming #1 thing that holds us back overall as an athletics department is the major boosters and school’s obsession with baseball. The best thing for our school would be for that program to completely shut down so our people would be forced to give a sh*t about the sport that actually pays the bills. The fact that our baseball stadium looks like it does and our football stadium looks like it does is an embarrassment to anyone with a fully functional brain. Bragging about having a major league level baseball park while our football stadium is rotting is embarrassing and other people in our league laugh at how damn stupid we are for doing that. We built a 70 MILLION DOLLAR baseball stadium and can’t even afford to put functional lights and speakers in the football stadium.

[StarkVegasSteve]

There are a lot of things wrong with our athletics department but the overwhelming #1 thing that holds us back overall as an athletics department is the major boosters and school’s obsession with baseball. The best thing for our school would be for that program to completely shut down so our people would be forced to give a sh*t about the sport that actually pays the bills. The fact that our baseball stadium looks like it does and our football stadium looks like it does is an embarrassment to anyone with a fully functional brain. Bragging about having a major league level baseball park while our football stadium is rotting is embarrassing and other people in our league laugh at how damn stupid we are for doing that. We built a 70 MILLION DOLLAR baseball stadium and can’t even afford to put functional lights and speakers in the football stadium.

ALL OF THIS.

[gtowndawg]

There are a lot of things wrong with our athletics department but the overwhelming #1 thing that holds us back overall as an athletics department is the major boosters and school?s obsession with baseball. The best thing for our school would be for that program to completely shut down so our people would be forced to give a sh*t about the sport that actually pays the bills. The fact that our baseball stadium looks like it does and our football stadium looks like it does is an embarrassment to anyone with a fully functional brain. Bragging about having a major league level baseball park while our football stadium is rotting is embarrassing and other people in our league laugh at how damn stupid we are for doing that. We built a 70 MILLION DOLLAR baseball stadium and can?t even afford to put functional lights and speakers in the football stadium.

I hate to say it, but I agree with this 1,000%

[gtowndawg]

Because they have this weird new concept called Alumni Outreach. A lot of schools are trying it out. Mississippi State is in a wait and see approach. I wish I was kidding. Ole Miss keeps up with their alumni and makes it a big deal to come back to campus for a few weekends in the fall and spring.

Mississippi State doesn't care. They could care less if young alumni came back. I mean I'm lucky enough that we have a condo in Starkville and have season tickets to everything or it would be almost impossible to come to games and enjoy them. Tickets aren't a problem, at least right now, but I mean where the hell are you supposed to stay in Starkville? There's 6 hotels and the team takes one of them and then there's a couple of fleabag motels, but I mean that's just not enough for a college town on a gameday weekend. I mean if I'm the University, I'm running gameday shuttles to hotels in Columbus and West Point. Hell, I'd be running charter buses to hotels in Meridian, Grenada, and even Jackson. Make it accessible for people to get there and they may be more willing to come. And that goes past just young alumni, that goes to out of state fans or even in state fans that may not live close to Starkville. I mean Mississippi State could EASILY afford to do that. Hell, Everett would probably cut them a deal on the buses.

We certainly need a new approach to this and many other things.

[Coach34]

We have more boosters willing to support baseball and love it for one reason- its the only sport we were ever really good at.

You are talking about a school that sold their home game to LSU to them and Baton Rouge about 40 times. A school that was the last SEC team to get a wood floor in basketball and their HC basically recruited by phone in 1985. A school unfortunately has to consider Larry Templeton one of their top AD's in history.

Yeah- they choose that because its our best chance to compete for a title

[Todd4State]

There are a lot of things wrong with our athletics department but the overwhelming #1 thing that holds us back overall as an athletics department is the major boosters and school?s obsession with baseball. The best thing for our school would be for that program to completely shut down so our people would be forced to give a sh*t about the sport that actually pays the bills. The fact that our baseball stadium looks like it does and our football stadium looks like it does is an embarrassment to anyone with a fully functional brain. Bragging about having a major league level baseball park while our football stadium is rotting is embarrassing and other people in our league laugh at how damn stupid we are for doing that. We built a 70 MILLION DOLLAR baseball stadium and can?t even afford to put functional lights and speakers in the football stadium.

No the biggest thing that holds MSU football back is mind numbingly STUPID ideas like "shutting down the baseball program so fans will have to focus on football."

This is the EXACT SAME SHIT that ruined our football program. "Let's get rid of Leach." "Let's hire Arnett." All were fan ideas that came to fruition and how did ANY of them work out? NONE OF THEM HAVE!

You complain about football facilities- well Cohen has been gone for over TWO years! Why hasn't Selmon fixed any of it? He has had 22 months to put some lights in. This isn't a new problem.

Here's the thing about baseball. Do you ever see baseball hiring a first year hitting coach to be the head coach? OK we did it with Cann and how did it work? Do you ever see baseball going all in on JUCO players and then have people try to sell it off as depth? NO! Do you ever see baseball just promoting the pitching coach to try to maintain continuity only to have him fire the hitting coach and lie to players about what we are going to do? Again- NO! Do you see baseball trying to keep a failed assistant because of reasons that make no logical sense like we are rumored to be doing with Hutzler? NO!

And don't sell me this bullshit that these same boosters who are apparently batting a thousand in baseball moves are all of a sudden clueless idiots on every single football move "because they care about baseball more." Well apparently they DO care about football because they're overinvolved in that sport.

So my humble advice as someone who has been AGAINST literally every stupid ass football move which I have been correct about being a stupid move so far is to:

1. Stop trying to drag the baseball program into the football programs failures. It's petty and it's ****ing stupid. COHEN ISN'T HERE ANYMORE!

2. LOOK at what makes baseball successful. And then actually try to imitate it. Baseball didn't tell MSU to hire inexperienced coaches. Baseball didn't tell football to recruit a bunch of JUCOs. Baseball isn't telling football to keep Hutzler.

3. You want to look stupid? Try shutting down baseball right as there are talks about MLB contracting minor league baseball and right at a time when college baseball is one of the fastest growing sports in the country DUMBASS!!!!!!! Doing shit like shutting down the baseball program is why people laugh at us and it's dumbasses like you who come up with this shit!!!!

[Todd4State]

We certainly need a new approach to this and many other things.

The "new approach" needs to be to do things that are high percentage and to stop cutting corners.

Hire coaches with experience.

Build up the recruiting department.

Listen to the fans and give them what they want.

[Cooterpoot]

Baseball is pretty well self-sufficient on the NIL side. I doubt you see much big investment in baseball stuff outside of normal things. If they start dropping big money on baseball again, 17 MSU!

[Todd4State]

I honestly don't understand the mindset of wanting access and some control over a program that's literally embarrassing. I mean who wants to brag about that?

I don't think they want to lose. They want to win AND have access. The problem is guys that win and are good coaches like Dan and Leach don't have time for hangers on because they're focused on winning. They assume that guys like Will Friend that kiss ass are just as good as Leach and well they're not.

[SPMT]

I don't think they want to lose. They want to win AND have access. The problem is guys that win and are good coaches like Dan and Leach don't have time for hangers on because they're focused on winning. They assume that guys like Will Friend that kiss ass are just as good as Leach and well they're not.

They don?t want to lose but if you are hanging out with college baseball players and their girlfriends you have serious issues.

Caveat being you happen to become friendly with one and are talking to them about your kid and baseball or something friends really talk about.

[RockyDog]

We have more boosters willing to support baseball and love it for one reason- its the only sport we were ever really good at.

You are talking about a school that sold their home game to LSU to them and Baton Rouge about 40 times. A school that was the last SEC team to get a wood floor in basketball and their HC basically recruited by phone in 1985. A school unfortunately has to consider Larry Templeton one of their top AD's in history.

Yeah- they choose that because its our best chance to compete for a title

And what did that title get? A bunch of fat old men get to take pics of themselves jerking off with a natty trophy. After that, nothing. We had people LAST YEAR trying to discredit a 17 win SEC season in an attempt to go ahead and fire Lemons. The club sport fanaticism is dumb.

[Todd4State]

They don?t want to lose but if you are hanging out with college baseball players and their girlfriends you have serious issues.

Caveat being you happen to become friendly with one and are talking to them about your kid and baseball or something friends really talk about.

I don't disagree that if you are hanging out with the baseball players and their girlfriends that you are a weird person.

But that doesn't have anything to do with bad football decisions.

In fact I'll say this. If you are an elite football coach like a Saban- those people are so 24/7 OCD about football that they don't really have time to hang out with boosters.

It wouldn't surprise me if Kiffin is like that to a degree. Ole Miss is probably/maybe better about getting their access from people like a Barney Farrar and being OK with that whereas at MSU it seems like it maybe is a you scratch my back I'll scratch yours thing. If you give us access we'll make you the offensive coordinator at MSU or something.

[Todd4State]

And what did that title get? A bunch of fat old men get to take pics of themselves jerking off with a natty trophy. After that, nothing. We had people LAST YEAR trying to discredit a 17 win SEC season in an attempt to go ahead and fire Lemons. The club sport fanaticism is dumb.

Ironically the 2022 and 2023 seasons happened in part because of bad decisions by Cohen and the boosters we're talking about.

Lemonis was never really in any trouble.

If we won the NC in women's basketball or women's soccer you would have fans "jerking off" with that trophy too. Not sure why anyone would have a problem with fans celebrating a championship but here you are.

And oh by the way in case you forgot- before baseball won a NC we were one of only a handful of schools to not have a NC in ANY sport. So yeah- it was a big deal. Deal with it.

[SPMT]

I don't disagree that if you are hanging out with the baseball players and their girlfriends that you are a weird person.

But that doesn't have anything to do with bad football decisions.

In fact I'll say this. If you are an elite football coach like a Saban- those people are so 24/7 OCD about football that they don't really have time to hang out with boosters.

It wouldn't surprise me if Kiffin is like that to a degree. Ole Miss is probably/maybe better about getting their access from people like a Barney Farrar and being OK with that whereas at MSU it seems like it maybe is a you scratch my back I'll scratch yours thing. If you give us access we'll make you the offensive coordinator at MSU or something.

Was referring to the baseball boosters who seem to have been meddling in football.

Dear Lord I pray we are not so dumb that we allow random businesspeople to hire/highly influence the hiring of a coach in a major sport. Please tell me we are past this. Sadly, we probably still do.

Any reasonable businessperson that has gotten to a level of success to have anyone listen to them in the AD has most definitely learned the hiring process and knows to let their reports hire who they think is fit with some having a minor say times.

So, in my feeble mind, these are the middle people, enough to matter, especially as a group, but individually not super significant.

[Todd4State]

Was referring to the baseball boosters who seem to have been meddling in football.

Dear Lord I pray we are not so dumb that we allow random businesspeople to hire/highly influence the hiring of a coach in a major sport. Please tell me we are past this. Sadly, we probably still do.

Any reasonable businessperson that has gotten to a level of success to have anyone listen to them in the AD has most definitely learned the hiring process and knows to let their reports hire who they think is fit with some having a minor say times.

So, in my feeble mind, these are the middle people, enough to matter, especially as a group, but individually not super significant.



The boosters do have some degree of influence because they have money. That's the delicate balance here. As much as believe you me I would love to tell then to go off and **** themselves for what they have done to our football program I understand the reality is we do need their money. StarkvegasSteve said as much in this thread. The boosters know it too. That's why they can do some of the crap that they do.

But recently the issue we had was when Leach passed away we had on AD to be a buffer so it's not too surprising that they were able to get him and a bunch of their friends on staff.

I will say that I don't think they had as much say when we hired Lebby and to be honest with you if they did have their say I'm not sure that they would have allowed Hutzler to be the DC. In fact, if Hutzler isn't our DC next year there is a good chance it's because of the boosters withdrawing money especially with the rumors that Lebby wants to bring him back. Lebby needs their support and Selmon needs it too. If Lebby doesn't have support he is going to end up being an OC for life. We'll see how it plays out after the Egg Bowl because I really don't know what is going to happen with it.

It's not a coincidence that people like Chad Bumphis and David Turner have been around for multiple coaching regimes.

[State82]

No the biggest thing that holds MSU football back is mind numbingly STUPID ideas like "shutting down the baseball program so fans will have to focus on football."

This is the EXACT SAME SHIT that ruined our football program. "Let's get rid of Leach." "Let's hire Arnett." All were fan ideas that came to fruition and how did ANY of them work out? NONE OF THEM HAVE!

You complain about football facilities- well Cohen has been gone for over TWO years! Why hasn't Selmon fixed any of it? He has had 22 months to put some lights in. This isn't a new problem.

Here's the thing about baseball. Do you ever see baseball hiring a first year hitting coach to be the head coach? OK we did it with Cann and how did it work? Do you ever see baseball going all in on JUCO players and then have people try to sell it off as depth? NO! Do you ever see baseball just promoting the pitching coach to try to maintain continuity only to have him fire the hitting coach and lie to players about what we are going to do? Again- NO! Do you see baseball trying to keep a failed assistant because of reasons that make no logical sense like we are rumored to be doing with Hutzler? NO!

And don't sell me this bullshit that these same boosters who are apparently batting a thousand in baseball moves are all of a sudden clueless idiots on every single football move "because they care about baseball more." Well apparently they DO care about football because they're overinvolved in that sport.

So my humble advice as someone who has been AGAINST literally every stupid ass football move which I have been correct about being a stupid move so far is to:

1. Stop trying to drag the baseball program into the football programs failures. It's petty and it's ****ing stupid. COHEN ISN'T HERE ANYMORE!

2. LOOK at what makes baseball successful. And then actually try to imitate it. Baseball didn't tell MSU to hire inexperienced coaches. Baseball didn't tell football to recruit a bunch of JUCOs. Baseball isn't telling football to keep Hutzler.

3. You want to look stupid? Try shutting down baseball right as there are talks about MLB contracting minor league baseball and right at a time when college baseball is one of the fastest growing sports in the country DUMBASS!!!!!!! Doing shit like shutting down the baseball program is why people laugh at us and it's dumbasses like you who come up with this shit!!!!

Todd gets it. Why is it so difficult to understand? Mental midgets I suppose.

[Todd4State]

Todd gets it. Why is it so difficult to understand? Mental midgets I suppose.

I do not for the life of me understand why MSU fans think you have to break something good to fix something else.

We can be good in both baseball and football. It has happened before. We went to Omaha AND won the SEC West in football in 1998. And more recently we went to NC Finals in Omaha in 2013 and then Dak took over and football had 2014.

[State82]

I do not for the life of me understand why MSU fans think you have to break something good to fix something else.

We can be good in both baseball and football. It has happened before. We went to Omaha AND won the SEC West in football in 1998. And more recently we went to NC Finals in Omaha in 2013 and then Dak took over and football had 2014.

No idea. It is complete ignorance. Look at UM.

[BigDawg81]

The boosters do have some degree of influence because they have money. That's the delicate balance here. As much as believe you me I would love to tell then to go off and **** themselves for what they have done to our football program I understand the reality is we do need their money. StarkvegasSteve said as much in this thread. The boosters know it too. That's why they can do some of the crap that they do.

But recently the issue we had was when Leach passed away we had on AD to be a buffer so it's not too surprising that they were able to get him and a bunch of their friends on staff.

I will say that I don't think they had as much say when we hired Lebby and to be honest with you if they did have their say I'm not sure that they would have allowed Hutzler to be the DC. In fact, if Hutzler isn't our DC next year there is a good chance it's because of the boosters withdrawing money especially with the rumors that Lebby wants to bring him back. Lebby needs their support and Selmon needs it too. If Lebby doesn't have support he is going to end up being an OC for life. We'll see how it plays out after the Egg Bowl because I really don't know what is going to happen with it.

It's not a coincidence that people like Chad Bumphis and David Turner have been around for multiple coaching regimes. Let Ole Miss score 70 and that will move the need

[StarkVegasSteve]

The boosters do have some degree of influence because they have money. That's the delicate balance here. As much as believe you me I would love to tell then to go off and **** themselves for what they have done to our football program I understand the reality is we do need their money. StarkvegasSteve said as much in this thread. The boosters know it too. That's why they can do some of the crap that they do.

But recently the issue we had was when Leach passed away we had on AD to be a buffer so it's not too surprising that they were able to get him and a bunch of their friends on staff.

I will say that I don't think they had as much say when we hired Lebby and to be honest with you if they did have their say I'm not sure that they would have allowed Hutzler to be the DC. In fact, if Hutzler isn't our DC next year there is a good chance it's because of the boosters withdrawing money especially with the rumors that Lebby wants to bring him back. Lebby needs their support and Selmon needs it too. If Lebby doesn't have support he is going to end up being an OC for life. We'll see how it plays out after the Egg Bowl because I really don't know what is going to happen with it.

It's not a coincidence that people like Chad Bumphis and David Turner have been around for multiple coaching regimes.

This would not have been a problem if we would've had an actual AD the previous 5 years. We had a baseball coach. He did not know what to do and instead of being the IB we knew and loved as the baseball coach he became Diplomat Donny and tried to be nice to everyone. He started listening to people that only wanted to advance their agendas and careers and started taking booster input from guys that had been told by Mullen, Byrne, and Strick to cut the checks and shut the 17 up. You give guys like that power again, and they are going to manipulate the hell out of it....which they did.

You're right that it's not a coincidence that Turner and Bumphis have been here with multiple staffs. We overinflate players and former coaches like no other program in the country. Now with Bumphis I will at least say that he's pulled his own weight in terms of recruiting. Turner is living off the fact that he coached Chris Jones(did not recruit him. That was Mullen and Hev) and he helped recruit Jeff (Hughes did the heavy lifting on that one). But we had a bunch of people tell Lebby and Co. that they JUST HAD to have both Turner and Bumphis because of how great recruiters they were. Again, boosters who have no clue what the hell they are talking about trying to peddle influence because they cut a check.

[AROB44]

This would not have been a problem if we would've had an actual AD the previous 5 years. We had a baseball coach. He did not know what to do and instead of being the IB we knew and loved as the baseball coach he became Diplomat Donny and tried to be nice to everyone. He started listening to people that only wanted to advance their agendas and careers and started taking booster input from guys that had been told by Mullen, Byrne, and Strick to cut the checks and shut the 17 up. You give guys like that power again, and they are going to manipulate the hell out of it....which they did.

You're right that it's not a coincidence that Turner and Bumphis have been here with multiple staffs. We overinflate players and former coaches like no other program in the country. Now with Bumphis I will at least say that he's pulled his own weight in terms of recruiting. Turner is living off the fact that he coached Chris Jones(did not recruit him. That was Mullen and Hev) and he helped recruit Jeff (Hughes did the heavy lifting on that one). But we had a bunch of people tell Lebby and Co. that they JUST HAD to have both Turner and Bumphis because of how great recruiters they were. Again, boosters who have no clue what the hell they are talking about trying to peddle influence because they cut a check.

Sort of like message board posters?

[Tripp McNeely]

This would not have been a problem if we would've had an actual AD the previous 5 years. We had a baseball coach. He did not know what to do and instead of being the IB we knew and loved as the baseball coach he became Diplomat Donny and tried to be nice to everyone. He started listening to people that only wanted to advance their agendas and careers and started taking booster input from guys that had been told by Mullen, Byrne, and Strick to cut the checks and shut the 17 up. You give guys like that power again, and they are going to manipulate the hell out of it....which they did.

You're right that it's not a coincidence that Turner and Bumphis have been here with multiple staffs. We overinflate players and former coaches like no other program in the country. Now with Bumphis I will at least say that he's pulled his own weight in terms of recruiting. Turner is living off the fact that he coached Chris Jones(did not recruit him. That was Mullen and Hev) and he helped recruit Jeff (Hughes did the heavy lifting on that one). But we had a bunch of people tell Lebby and Co. that they JUST HAD to have both Turner and Bumphis because of how great recruiters they were. Again, boosters who have no clue what the hell they are talking about trying to peddle influence because they cut a check.

Bumphis is probably our best recruiter. No need to lump him in with Turner

[StarkVegasSteve]

Bumphis is probably our best recruiter. No need to lump him in with Turner

He gets lumped in because of boosters wanting him on staff. As I said, he pulls his own weight in recruiting. TBD on his position coaching prowess. Still too early to tell. I don't know how much credit I give him for Coleman. He was pretty complete when he got here.

[Cooterpoot]

Bumphis is probably our best recruiter. No need to lump him in with Turner

We currently have two good WRs playing. One is going pro and one probably transferring. One of our top WR recruits looks to be moving to defense. I don't think Bump is doing poorly, but he needs to do better. We just settled on a kid who isn't going to help us because we lost a good recruit. This staff has us in the top 30 in recruiting right now, which is basically close to average for us the last decade I guess.

[Coach34]

Michigan announced they are committing $50MM per year to building a football team. We cant keep up and everybody knows it. Trying to pretend that we can is wasted time

[StarkVegasSteve]

Michigan announced they are committing $50MM per year to building a football team. We cant keep up and everybody knows it. Trying to pretend that we can is wasted time

They are more than welcome to commit all the money they want. They still have to evaluate and coach. And right now they have a crappy HC, a crappy OC, and an old DC. That's the thing about this stuff, look at how much FSU spent and they are going to go 2-10. You HAVE TO BE ABLE TO EVALUATE.

[parabrave]

They are more than welcome to commit all the money they want. They still have to evaluate and coach. And right now they have a crappy HC, a crappy OC, and an old DC. That's the thing about this stuff, look at how much FSU spent and they are going to go 2-10. You HAVE TO BE ABLE TO EVALUATE.

And you still have to develop that talent.

[Jarius]

We have more boosters willing to support baseball and love it for one reason- its the only sport we were ever really good at.

You are talking about a school that sold their home game to LSU to them and Baton Rouge about 40 times. A school that was the last SEC team to get a wood floor in basketball and their HC basically recruited by phone in 1985. A school unfortunately has to consider Larry Templeton one of their top AD's in history.

Yeah- they choose that because its our best chance to compete for a title


They chose it because they are losers that don’t want to put forth the effort that Ole Miss has in the sport that matters. Baseball national championship games get the same ratings as 3 am infomercials. No one gives a sh*t about that sport and we are losers for going all in on it while the football program rots.

[Jarius]

No the biggest thing that holds MSU football back is mind numbingly STUPID ideas like "shutting down the baseball program so fans will have to focus on football."

This is the EXACT SAME SHIT that ruined our football program. "Let's get rid of Leach." "Let's hire Arnett." All were fan ideas that came to fruition and how did ANY of them work out? NONE OF THEM HAVE!

You complain about football facilities- well Cohen has been gone for over TWO years! Why hasn't Selmon fixed any of it? He has had 22 months to put some lights in. This isn't a new problem.

Here's the thing about baseball. Do you ever see baseball hiring a first year hitting coach to be the head coach? OK we did it with Cann and how did it work? Do you ever see baseball going all in on JUCO players and then have people try to sell it off as depth? NO! Do you ever see baseball just promoting the pitching coach to try to maintain continuity only to have him fire the hitting coach and lie to players about what we are going to do? Again- NO! Do you see baseball trying to keep a failed assistant because of reasons that make no logical sense like we are rumored to be doing with Hutzler? NO!

And don't sell me this bullshit that these same boosters who are apparently batting a thousand in baseball moves are all of a sudden clueless idiots on every single football move "because they care about baseball more." Well apparently they DO care about football because they're overinvolved in that sport.

So my humble advice as someone who has been AGAINST literally every stupid ass football move which I have been correct about being a stupid move so far is to:

1. Stop trying to drag the baseball program into the football programs failures. It's petty and it's ****ing stupid. COHEN ISN'T HERE ANYMORE!

2. LOOK at what makes baseball successful. And then actually try to imitate it. Baseball didn't tell MSU to hire inexperienced coaches. Baseball didn't tell football to recruit a bunch of JUCOs. Baseball isn't telling football to keep Hutzler.

3. You want to look stupid? Try shutting down baseball right as there are talks about MLB contracting minor league baseball and right at a time when college baseball is one of the fastest growing sports in the country DUMBASS!!!!!!! Doing shit like shutting down the baseball program is why people laugh at us and it's dumbasses like you who come up with this shit!!!!


No, we suck because we have limited resources and choose to use them on your dumb@ss sport of choice. Spending 70 million dollars on a baseball stadium was an all time dumb@ss move by our baseball coach AD and our dumb@as boosters who are too chickensh*t to commit that type of resource to the sport that matters. We do not have the resources to commit 70 million to a baseball stadium, have a top half NIL budget for baseball in the conference, and compete in football. You not knowing that isn’t my fault. You live in a dream world if you think we do. Just because dread head told you we do doesn’t make it so.

[Jarius]

No idea. It is complete ignorance. Look at UM.

Complete ignorance is not knowing that Ole Miss threw baseball in the trash so they can compete in the sport that matters. You people live in fantasy land. No, the school with the smallest budget in the SEC can’t spend what we do on baseball and compete in football. You can keep on telling yourself that if it makes you feel better but it’s not true.

[PGHBulldogBG]

One of the biggest obstacles that Miss State has to overcome is not whether or not we should be promoting football or basketball or baseball, it’s more the fact that many students who attend State do not prioritize sports the way other SEC programs do because they are so into outdoor activities like hunting, fishing etc. This is a main part of the reason we do not have the same support as the majority of the other SEC schools. While a lot of that has to do with the type of programs State has to offer, I think it also goes back to our general lack of success overall in football and basketball. Not saying people on here or all state fans are like that, but there is no doubt we are one of the few SEC schools who put other interests above sports.

[StarkVegasSteve]

No, we suck because we have limited resources and choose to use them on your dumb@ss sport of choice. Spending 70 million dollars on a baseball stadium was an all time dumb@ss move by our baseball coach AD and our dumb@as boosters who are too chickensh*t to commit that type of resource to the sport that matters. We do not have the resources to commit 70 million to a baseball stadium, have a top half NIL budget for baseball in the conference, and compete in football. You not knowing that isn’t my fault. You live in a dream world if you think we do. Just because dread head told you we do doesn’t make it so.

Yea truth be told if we took half our baseball NIL and gave it to football, we'd be able to get the amount of talent and bodies we need to be competitive and get things rolling NEXT YEAR. But look, when the super conference comes and we're left out in the dark everyone will finally figure it out. FOOTBALL PAYS FOR EVERYTHING. Men's basketball makes a decent profit. Baseball will fluctuate between a miniscule gain, net zero, and a loss most years. The other sports, bloodbaths in the loss column. But football pays for everything on that campus and is treated like a red headed step child. No LED lights, sound system sucks, concourse is old, etc. We have all stated the problems ad nauseam.

[StarkVegasSteve]

One of the biggest obstacles that Miss State has to overcome is not whether or not we should be promoting football or basketball or baseball, it’s more the fact that many students who attend State do not prioritize sports the way other SEC programs do because they are so into outdoor activities like hunting, fishing etc. This is a main part of the reason we do not have the same support as the majority of the other SEC schools. While a lot of that has to do with the type of programs State has to offer, I think it also goes back to our general lack of success overall in football and basketball. Not saying people on here or all state fans are like that, but there is no doubt we are one of the few SEC schools who put other interests above sports.

Then start going to get OOS students that prioritize sports.

[RockyDog]

Complete ignorance is not knowing that Ole Miss threw baseball in the trash so they can compete in the sport that matters. You people live in fantasy land. No, the school with the smallest budget in the SEC can’t spend what we do on baseball and compete in football. You can keep on telling yourself that if it makes you feel better but it’s not true.

Not to mention the whole sport is a snooze fest and nobody even pays attention to MLB anymore.

[Jarius]

I do not for the life of me understand why MSU fans think you have to break something good to fix something else.

We can be good in both baseball and football. It has happened before. We went to Omaha AND won the SEC West in football in 1998. And more recently we went to NC Finals in Omaha in 2013 and then Dak took over and football had 2014.


We can catch lightning in a bottle twice every 30 years in football while baseball goes on outstanding runs for long periods of time. We could do the opposite if we focused on the sport that matters but we have morons that are ok with having 2 big times seasons in 30 years of football so they can enjoy feeding opposing teams hot dogs in their under priced lounge spot.

[StarkVegasSteve]

Not to mention the whole sport is a snooze fest and nobody even pays attention to MLB anymore.

Half the people don't pay attention at our games. I'd wager that 65% of The Left Field Lounge doesn't know the score, count, or who's batting at a given time.

[Jarius]

Yea truth be told if we took half our baseball NIL and gave it to football, we'd be able to get the amount of talent and bodies we need to be competitive and get things rolling NEXT YEAR. But look, when the super conference comes and we're left out in the dark everyone will finally figure it out. FOOTBALL PAYS FOR EVERYTHING. Men's basketball makes a decent profit. Baseball will fluctuate between a miniscule gain, net zero, and a loss most years. The other sports, bloodbaths in the loss column. But football pays for everything on that campus and is treated like a red headed step child. No LED lights, sound system sucks, concourse is old, etc. We have all stated the problems ad nauseam.

If we don’t get football right they are going to get to play home conference games in that palace against USM and Arkansas State.

[PGHBulldogBG]

Then start going to get OOS students that prioritize sports.

The issue is that there really isn’t much of a solution. It is hard to recruit out of state students to State. I honestly don’t know the solution, but it’s just a fact that our fanbase and students prioritize other interests over sports compared to most other SEC fanbases. One of the biggest shocking things for me coming from PA to Miss State was the number of kids who went home on the weekends. The whole campus cleared out and it was something that completely shocked me. That does not happen at Bama, LSU, Tenn etc. I came to find out it was mostly because of the hunting and the type of student that state had. Again, not saying all state fans and students are like this, just more so than other sec schools

[Jarius]

The issue is that there really isn’t much of a solution. It is hard to recruit out of state students to State. I honestly don’t know the solution, but it’s just a fact that our fanbase and students prioritize other interests over sports compared to most other SEC fanbases. One of the biggest shocking things for me coming from PA to Miss State was the number of kids who went home on the weekends. The whole campus cleared out and it was something that completely shocked me. That does not happen at Bama, LSU, Tenn etc. I came to find out it was mostly because of the hunting and the type of student that state had. Again, not saying all state fans and students are like this, just more so than other sec schools

We need a significant upgrade in nightlife in Starkville. The cotton district has potential but everything there is as big as a shoe box. The new “Landing” coming up there needs to be a big hit.

[EdwardDrayton]

Spending the most money does not ensure success. In football or anything else.

[Coursesuper]

No, we suck because we have limited resources and choose to use them on your dumb@ss sport of choice. Spending 70 million dollars on a baseball stadium was an all time dumb@ss move by our baseball coach AD and our dumb@as boosters who are too chickensh*t to commit that type of resource to the sport that matters. We do not have the resources to commit 70 million to a baseball stadium, have a top half NIL budget for baseball in the conference, and compete in football. You not knowing that isn’t my fault. You live in a dream world if you think we do. Just because dread head told you we do doesn’t make it so.

We burned up a lot of booster capital for that stadium. They had to bring a retired fund raiser back to get the money to pay for the stadium.

[parabrave]

Then start going to get OOS students that prioritize sports.

It's not sports but atmosphere and school myths about a certain school being a party school. That gets the Atlanta Hotties there which also attracts the guys. They don't go to a game to watch it but to be seen and it recruits the younger kids to the school. Watch the difference between a Televised State game and a OM game or a Bama game. At the State game they always show the bell ringers dressed up like farmer Ted. At the Om game they show nothing but Hotties or Drone shots of the partying on the Grove. That means lot to a prospective student in the ATL or up north. Heck even 45 years ago that was the perception even though the drunkest I've ever been was homecoming 1980. Thats what happens when it was easier to get Jack Daniels than cold beer and for anyone who was sitting in the old North Endzone metal bleacher I apologize for the addition to the aroma that afternoon

[Pancho]

truth, my friend

[KB21]

LOL at blaming baseball success for football?s failures.

[Coursesuper]

LOL at blaming baseball success for football?s failures.
That is a breathtakingly ignorant statement. If you took the time to comprehend much of the thread you would have gleaned that this is about a truly stupid AD hire and his dreadful mismanagement of the department. The prioritization of a non revenue sport over the one that carries the load financially for the entire institution. The complete wiff on the first football coaching hire. Then the AD mismanaged the second search only to be bailed out at the last minute by Jackie or we would have wound up with Joe Judge or worse. Don?t try to put the men?s basketball hires in his win column either, that program is run from Houston Tx.

[Coach34]

Biggest problem with football is the bad hires. But going forward the money aspect will become too big of a hurdle for us to really be relevant. Just as Mullen & Crew were able to see talent that needed a couple of years to develop- our staff will have to do the same with players we can afford.

[Todd4State]

No, we suck because we have limited resources and choose to use them on your dumb@ss sport of choice. Spending 70 million dollars on a baseball stadium was an all time dumb@ss move by our baseball coach AD and our dumb@as boosters who are too chickensh*t to commit that type of resource to the sport that matters. We do not have the resources to commit 70 million to a baseball stadium, have a top half NIL budget for baseball in the conference, and compete in football. You not knowing that isn?t my fault. You live in a dream world if you think we do. Just because dread head told you we do doesn?t make it so.

I'm the one living in a dream world?

Let's get some facts straight here.

First of all the 70 million dollar baseball stadium was pushed by Stricklin. Of course Cohen pushed it because he WAS the baseball coach at the time.

Second of all the 70 million dollar baseball stadium was built AFTER we enclosed Davis Wade for 75 million first. You conveniently leave that part out. Or at least your butthurt booster friend did.

"A $75 million expansion, completed in August 2014, increased the capacity of the stadium to 61,337,[11] created new concessions and restrooms, and created a new west side concourse. Part of the expansion included sealing off the north end zone and installing a large HD video board, similar to the one in the south end zone which replaced the JumboTron that was installed there in 1997.[12]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Davis_Wade_Stadium

So we had the money to enclose the football stadium AND build a baseball stadium 10 years ago but now all of a sudden we don't have any money? And that's not to mention the other renovations and upgrades MSU has made to other sports since then as well.

You want to talk about NIL? OK. Well first of all our football program and all of MSU's NIL was SAVED by one of the biggest MSU baseball fans out there. And believe you me he wants to see MSU win in football just as badly as he wants to win in baseball. Second of all what YOU fail to understand in your ignorant "let's break this to fix that" false equivalency ideology that only MSU fans come up with is if football was given all of baseball's NIL they would probably still spend it on JUCO players. That's the biggest issue because by the way we have enough NIL right now to compete in football and that's without touching baseball at all. And that hasn't been said just by me- it has been said by others on this board. And speaking of NIL one of our biggest if not biggest NIL earner at MSU is a BASKETBALL player. Not a baseball player. So according to your logic we should take that from Hubbard too since we could buy a football player with it.

We're never going to maximize NIL in football until MSU actually uses their football NIL wisely. And that's a big thing that is hurting donations right now. They do NOT invest it wisely. MSU is telling people to give to NIL and then they go out and recruit a bunch of JUCO's. And no one trusts the coaches to make the right decisions because they haven't proven that they can spend what they have wisely in any way shape or form. IF MSU did people would give a lot more to football than they do now. Heck- MSU fans are people that will show up to anything that is quality even if it's like women's soccer or softball. We have seen that. They have shown up for football before too when the program made good moves for the most part.

[Todd4State]

Complete ignorance is not knowing that Ole Miss threw baseball in the trash so they can compete in the sport that matters. You people live in fantasy land. No, the school with the smallest budget in the SEC can?t spend what we do on baseball and compete in football. You can keep on telling yourself that if it makes you feel better but it?s not true.

Ole Miss just announced that they are going to have a major baseball stadium renovation by the way.

[Todd4State]

We can catch lightning in a bottle twice every 30 years in football while baseball goes on outstanding runs for long periods of time. We could do the opposite if we focused on the sport that matters but we have morons that are ok with having 2 big times seasons in 30 years of football so they can enjoy feeding opposing teams hot dogs in their under priced lounge spot.

MSU has had consistent success in football with the RIGHT coaches. Jackie. Dan. Leach. We had a 13 year bowl streak with multiple 8+ win seasons during it just two years ago. From 1996-2000 we were about as good as anyone in the SEC except for Florida and Tennessee.

Really no different than any other SEC school in that regard actually.

It's more about making the RIGHT decisions rather than "focus". Heck- when baseball made bad decisions it struggled too. See Ron Polk 2. See Cann. See Foxhall. MSU baseball in 2004 was not even close to what it is now and really the one constant is the LFL folks but people weren't buying in because Polk 2 was incredibly stale and wasn't going to even come close to a NC. When MSU baseball began to make more right decisions starting with hiring Cohen then it turned into what it is now.

Look at who football has hired the past two years- Arnett as head coach, Barbay, Hutzler. That's why MSU football is dead. Hell- Leach left Arnett a 9 win team with a bunch of seniors on it for 2023. You can't do shit to a fan base like fire all of the offensive staff and lie about what you are going to do and then make the same mistake that Moorhead did just four years after Moorhead. And then you want to blame baseball for that? Really? The players don't want to play for those coaches.

The solution here is VERY simple. Go hire an experienced DC that can recruit. Get decent. Then attract better players and go from there. That's it.

But no- we have people that want to blow up the baseball program because we hired inexperienced football coaches who can only recruit JUCO's but I'm the one living in fantasy land? LOL.

I was the one telling people how the offensive line was struggling in practice while YOU were toting Barbay's water in the preseason. So maybe YOU should listen to me instead of your butthurt idiot booster friend who probably had a hand in ****ing everything up to start with.

[Todd4State]

Also, no one is talking about how revenue sharing and changes with NIL are going to make things drastically different. Which would make killing the baseball program even more stupid. It would go down much like High school reporter's whining about "But....but....I pushed the State script over interlocking because I thought Nike owned the interlocking MSU".

Speaking of baseball- the roster spots are going to be 34 and most of those are going to be fully funded by scholarships now that Title IX is essentially irrelevant. I believe baseball with have 24-26 scholarships now. That in and of itself will save MSU NIL that can be used on other sports.

Also the new group that MSU started in response to the upcoming revenue sharing changes is going to drastically change how NIL is used.

[State82]

Complete ignorance is not knowing that Ole Miss threw baseball in the trash so they can compete in the sport that matters.

WTH are you even talking about?

[SPMT]

It's not sports but atmosphere and school myths about a certain school being a party school. That gets the Atlanta Hotties there which also attracts the guys. They don't go to a game to watch it but to be seen and it recruits the younger kids to the school. Watch the difference between a Televised State game and a OM game or a Bama game. At the State game they always show the bell ringers dressed up like farmer Ted. At the Om game they show nothing but Hotties or Drone shots of the partying on the Grove. That means lot to a prospective student in the ATL or up north. Heck even 45 years ago that was the perception even though the drunkest I've ever been was homecoming 1980. Thats what happens when it was easier to get Jack Daniels than cold beer and for anyone who was sitting in the old North Endzone metal bleacher I apologize for the addition to the aroma that afternoon

All of this is true. It won?t change because that has been the atmosphere for at least 50 years. Doesn?t matter. It?s the Ole Miss thing.

State has its own thing.

[Coursesuper]

Biggest problem with football is the bad hires. But going forward the money aspect will become too big of a hurdle for us to really be relevant. Just as Mullen & Crew were able to see talent that needed a couple of years to develop- our staff will have to do the same with players we can afford.

This is the truth, I've been waving this flag for years. There in lies the issue of where do we land and how do we make that landing the softest one possible? If the Missippy Tate way happens it will be a landing that will rip the bottom out of the aircraft. That is the trajectory we are on now. We have to be not just 17ing horrible on the football field to land somewhere that we have a chance to succeed financially.

[basedog]

Two things that helps, 1) we are in the Sec which gives us some advantage with the money aspect, yes we have a poor athletic budget but compared to most schools in the country we are in top 40 for sure maybe higher. 2) Hire a decent HC for football who can recruit and bring excitement, and it helps big time. Hey Ky hired Mark Stoops and he may be their best HC since they Hired Bear Bryant back in the 50's.

Yes we are in awful shape with leadership, but a couple decent hires can change the culture. No doubt I have lost football interest, but I graduated in 1973 and far more things to do than fret over Msu football now days. Fact is I'm headed to deer camp Friday Morning. Happy Turkey Day and Hail State Always!!!

[Jarius]

I'm the one living in a dream world?

Let's get some facts straight here.

First of all the 70 million dollar baseball stadium was pushed by Stricklin. Of course Cohen pushed it because he WAS the baseball coach at the time.

Second of all the 70 million dollar baseball stadium was built AFTER we enclosed Davis Wade for 75 million first. You conveniently leave that part out. Or at least your butthurt booster friend did.

"A $75 million expansion, completed in August 2014, increased the capacity of the stadium to 61,337,[11] created new concessions and restrooms, and created a new west side concourse. Part of the expansion included sealing off the north end zone and installing a large HD video board, similar to the one in the south end zone which replaced the JumboTron that was installed there in 1997.[12]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Davis_Wade_Stadium

So we had the money to enclose the football stadium AND build a baseball stadium 10 years ago but now all of a sudden we don't have any money? And that's not to mention the other renovations and upgrades MSU has made to other sports since then as well.

You want to talk about NIL? OK. Well first of all our football program and all of MSU's NIL was SAVED by one of the biggest MSU baseball fans out there. And believe you me he wants to see MSU win in football just as badly as he wants to win in baseball. Second of all what YOU fail to understand in your ignorant "let's break this to fix that" false equivalency ideology that only MSU fans come up with is if football was given all of baseball's NIL they would probably still spend it on JUCO players. That's the biggest issue because by the way we have enough NIL right now to compete in football and that's without touching baseball at all. And that hasn't been said just by me- it has been said by others on this board. And speaking of NIL one of our biggest if not biggest NIL earner at MSU is a BASKETBALL player. Not a baseball player. So according to your logic we should take that from Hubbard too since we could buy a football player with it.

We're never going to maximize NIL in football until MSU actually uses their football NIL wisely. And that's a big thing that is hurting donations right now. They do NOT invest it wisely. MSU is telling people to give to NIL and then they go out and recruit a bunch of JUCO's. And no one trusts the coaches to make the right decisions because they haven't proven that they can spend what they have wisely in any way shape or form. IF MSU did people would give a lot more to football than they do now. Heck- MSU fans are people that will show up to anything that is quality even if it's like women's soccer or softball. We have seen that. They have shown up for football before too when the program made good moves for the most part.



The fact that we are matching baseball upgrades with football money wise is a huge issue. You know why we are spending football NIL poorly? Because we are cheap as hell and hiring coaches that can’t attract decent football players. You know why that is? Because we focus on a half funded club sport more than we should and don’t have the money to go all in on the sport that everyone else cares about.

[Jarius]

WTH are you even talking about?

Ole Miss has made it clear which sport is getting the main focus on campus and baseball isn’t it, obviously. Do I need to put this in picture form for you?

[Jarius]

Ole Miss just announced that they are going to have a major baseball stadium renovation by the way.

Ole Miss literally stopped that renovation because they had common sense.

https://www.clarionledger.com/story/sports/college/ole-miss/2024/06/04/ole-miss-baseball-stadium-renovations-keith-carter-ncaa-revenue-sharing/73924899007/

[Jarius]

MSU has had consistent success in football with the RIGHT coaches. Jackie. Dan. Leach. We had a 13 year bowl streak with multiple 8+ win seasons during it just two years ago. From 1996-2000 we were about as good as anyone in the SEC except for Florida and Tennessee.

Really no different than any other SEC school in that regard actually.

It's more about making the RIGHT decisions rather than "focus". Heck- when baseball made bad decisions it struggled too. See Ron Polk 2. See Cann. See Foxhall. MSU baseball in 2004 was not even close to what it is now and really the one constant is the LFL folks but people weren't buying in because Polk 2 was incredibly stale and wasn't going to even come close to a NC. When MSU baseball began to make more right decisions starting with hiring Cohen then it turned into what it is now.

Look at who football has hired the past two years- Arnett as head coach, Barbay, Hutzler. That's why MSU football is dead. Hell- Leach left Arnett a 9 win team with a bunch of seniors on it for 2023. You can't do shit to a fan base like fire all of the offensive staff and lie about what you are going to do and then make the same mistake that Moorhead did just four years after Moorhead. And then you want to blame baseball for that? Really? The players don't want to play for those coaches.

The solution here is VERY simple. Go hire an experienced DC that can recruit. Get decent. Then attract better players and go from there. That's it.

But no- we have people that want to blow up the baseball program because we hired inexperienced football coaches who can only recruit JUCO's but I'm the one living in fantasy land? LOL.

I was the one telling people how the offensive line was struggling in practice while YOU were toting Barbay's water in the preseason. So maybe YOU should listen to me instead of your butthurt idiot booster friend who probably had a hand in ****ing everything up to start with.



This is the problem right here. You consider consistent success going to bowl games in football and going to the World Series in baseball. No one else in this league considers that a success. Our in state rival is winning 9.5 games a year under their current coaching staff and now have the worst baseball program in the conference. Those are the sacrifices you make if you want to be a big boy program. You don’t go cheap in the sport that matters to make sure baseball can compete financially. The expectations should have been flipped for those 2 sports 50 years ago. No, I’m not ok winning 7 games a year in football and propping up baseball. The fact that you are is the problem. Obviously, we can’t kill baseball. We are at the minimum number of sports at the school. It should be slashed with funding and the baseball lovers should be required to carry it financially though.

[Jarius]

Also, no one is talking about how revenue sharing and changes with NIL are going to make things drastically different. Which would make killing the baseball program even more stupid. It would go down much like High school reporter's whining about "But....but....I pushed the State script over interlocking because I thought Nike owned the interlocking MSU".

Speaking of baseball- the roster spots are going to be 34 and most of those are going to be fully funded by scholarships now that Title IX is essentially irrelevant. I believe baseball with have 24-26 scholarships now. That in and of itself will save MSU NIL that can be used on other sports.

Also the new group that MSU started in response to the upcoming revenue sharing changes is going to drastically change how NIL is used.


That means we get to pour more money into funding baseball. Hell yea! I can’t wait to increase expenses on that sport! Yay!

[BB30]

No the biggest thing that holds MSU football back is mind numbingly STUPID ideas like "shutting down the baseball program so fans will have to focus on football."

This is the EXACT SAME SHIT that ruined our football program. "Let's get rid of Leach." "Let's hire Arnett." All were fan ideas that came to fruition and how did ANY of them work out? NONE OF THEM HAVE!

You complain about football facilities- well Cohen has been gone for over TWO years! Why hasn't Selmon fixed any of it? He has had 22 months to put some lights in. This isn't a new problem.

Here's the thing about baseball. Do you ever see baseball hiring a first year hitting coach to be the head coach? OK we did it with Cann and how did it work? Do you ever see baseball going all in on JUCO players and then have people try to sell it off as depth? NO! Do you ever see baseball just promoting the pitching coach to try to maintain continuity only to have him fire the hitting coach and lie to players about what we are going to do? Again- NO! Do you see baseball trying to keep a failed assistant because of reasons that make no logical sense like we are rumored to be doing with Hutzler? NO!

And don't sell me this bullshit that these same boosters who are apparently batting a thousand in baseball moves are all of a sudden clueless idiots on every single football move "because they care about baseball more." Well apparently they DO care about football because they're overinvolved in that sport.

So my humble advice as someone who has been AGAINST literally every stupid ass football move which I have been correct about being a stupid move so far is to:

1. Stop trying to drag the baseball program into the football programs failures. It's petty and it's ****ing stupid. COHEN ISN'T HERE ANYMORE!

2. LOOK at what makes baseball successful. And then actually try to imitate it. Baseball didn't tell MSU to hire inexperienced coaches. Baseball didn't tell football to recruit a bunch of JUCOs. Baseball isn't telling football to keep Hutzler.

3. You want to look stupid? Try shutting down baseball right as there are talks about MLB contracting minor league baseball and right at a time when college baseball is one of the fastest growing sports in the country DUMBASS!!!!!!! Doing shit like shutting down the baseball program is why people laugh at us and it's dumbasses like you who come up with this shit!!!!

Eh, the reason baseball hasn't had to do any of that is because Ron Polk built the program into a national brand long ago. We are basically like a Alabama, UGA, Tennessee, LSU, UF" of baseball. We have a brand and thus we benefit when we have coaching searches in that sport and we don't have to rely on Jucos etc.

I mean baseball recruiting and football are different but we recruit on an Alabama football level in baseball. We get to pick from the cream of the crop.

Comparing our baseball program to football is comparing apples to oranges. We have always been successful in baseball, we have rarely been successful in football with several stints mirroring what we are seeing now.

The problem with football is we don't have a brand and we don't have the $$. You don't needs tons of money to recruit in baseball although that is changing. You now need millions to field a legit roster in football and that number is growing. We also have god awful fan support when it comes to football. Our stadium looked like a cusa crowd all year. Nobody shows up. If I'm a recruit and I am in Starkville for a game and then go to USC or even UK the environments aren't in the same ballpark.

[Jarius]

Biggest problem with football is the bad hires. But going forward the money aspect will become too big of a hurdle for us to really be relevant. Just as Mullen & Crew were able to see talent that needed a couple of years to develop- our staff will have to do the same with players we can afford.

Bad hires are from being cheap a*ses. We are not a serious athletics department from the top down.

[RockyDog]

Eh, the reason baseball hasn't had to do any of that is because Ron Polk built the program into a national brand long ago. We are basically like a Alabama, UGA, Tennessee, LSU, UF" of baseball. We have a brand and thus we benefit when we have coaching searches in that sport and we don't have to rely on Jucos etc.

I mean baseball recruiting and football are different but we recruit on an Alabama football level in baseball. We get to pick from the cream of the crop.

Comparing our baseball program to football is comparing apples to oranges. We have always been successful in baseball, we have rarely been successful in football with several stints mirroring what we are seeing now.

The problem with football is we don't have a brand and we don't have the $$. You don't needs tons of money to recruit in baseball although that is changing. You now need millions to field a legit roster in football and that number is growing. We also have god awful fan support when it comes to football. Our stadium looked like a cusa crowd all year. Nobody shows up. If I'm a recruit and I am in Starkville for a game and then go to USC or even UK the environments aren't in the same ballpark.

B-b-b-b-b-but we play Bad to the Bone, Madalon, and yell ANOTHER T!!! The atmosphere is great!!

[Goldendawg]

Two things that helps, 1) we are in the Sec which gives us some advantage with the money aspect, yes we have a poor athletic budget but compared to most schools in the country we are in top 40 for sure maybe higher. 2) Hire a decent HC for football who can recruit and bring excitement, and it helps big time. Hey Ky hired Mark Stoops and he may be their best HC since they Hired Bear Bryant back in the 50's.

Yes we are in awful shape with leadership, but a couple decent hires can change the culture. No doubt I have lost football interest, but I graduated in 1973 and far more things to do than fret over Msu football now days. Fact is I'm headed to deer camp Friday Morning. Happy Turkey Day and Hail State Always!!!

How is 2-10 an improved year with any staff no matter limited talent, along with poor coaching which has also played a big part in this debacle? There seems to be several coaches/ex-coaches on this board that could have taken the millions and put together a better staff and could have beaten E KY and UMASS! We have to break the cycle of bad hires and a revolving door on HC, but will Lebby/Hutz be another Croom/Woody after next year?

[basedog]

How is 2-10 an improved year with any staff no matter limited talent, along with poor coaching which has also played a big part in this debacle? There seems to be several coaches/ex-coaches on this board that could have taken the millions and put together a better staff and could have beaten E KY and UMASS! We have to break the cycle of bad hires and a revolving door on HC, but will Lebby/Hutz be another Croom/Woody after next year?

Like I stated hiring the right guy is important.

[Goldendawg]

B-b-b-b-b-but we play Bad to the Bone, Madalon, and yell ANOTHER T!!! The atmosphere is great!!

Hey we did change one thing this year as team entrance music was Dire Straits, "Money for Nothing"! Was a sadly appropriate, but tone deaf decision. You can't make this stuff up. We have poor decisions being made on and off the field. No home SEC victories in two years and if we lose tomorrow, first season without an SEC win since 2002. I see no foundation being built except improved WR room and the "Showtime" video needs to be retired until we can compete and dare I say win a few games. We are the "Washington Generals" of the SEC at this point. Even JOMO beat Toledo last night!

[Todd4State]

The fact that we are matching baseball upgrades with football money wise is a huge issue. You know why we are spending football NIL poorly? Because we are cheap as hell and hiring coaches that can?t attract decent football players. You know why that is? Because we focus on a half funded club sport more than we should and don?t have the money to go all in on the sport that everyone else cares about.

Then explain to me why Mike Leach was the 8th highest paid coach in the SEC in 2022?

https://businessofcollegesports.com/coaches/college-football-coaching-salaries-sec/

This is hilarious on the day we just got a 3 million dollar donation for NIL. And only weeks after an 8 million dollar donation.

No response for the fact that we renovated football first BEFORE Dudy Noble? And renovating baseball was absolutely warranted at the time. Our old facility was falling behind most SEC teams and anyone that has ever been to the new stadium has no regrets.

Oh by the way Tennessee is renovating their baseball stadium for 95 million dollars.

https://utsports.com/news/2023/6/8/general-transformational-renovation-project-at-lindsey-nelson-stadium.aspx

Football's problem isn't money. It's making bad hires. And that's not baseball's fault.

[Todd4State]

This is the problem right here. You consider consistent success going to bowl games in football and going to the World Series in baseball. No one else in this league considers that a success. Our in state rival is winning 9.5 games a year under their current coaching staff and now have the worst baseball program in the conference. Those are the sacrifices you make if you want to be a big boy program. You don?t go cheap in the sport that matters to make sure baseball can compete financially. The expectations should have been flipped for those 2 sports 50 years ago. No, I?m not ok winning 7 games a year in football and propping up baseball. The fact that you are is the problem. Obviously, we can?t kill baseball. We are at the minimum number of sports at the school. It should be slashed with funding and the baseball lovers should be required to carry it financially though.

I didn't say that we were hitting our ceiling with any of those coaches. I said we had success with those coaches. What Ole Miss has accomplished with Kiffin and their 15-20 million dollar team is literally no better than what we accomplished with Dan or Jackie. Dan Mullen averaged around 7.5 wins a year at MSU. Lane Kiffin is only averaging a little over 8.1 wins at Ole Miss. I did some rounding there because I did it in my head but as you can see it's really not that much different. And really the only true marquee win they have had is the one that they had over Georgia.

Also- we just won 17 SEC games in baseball. We are a far cry from the worst team in the SEC.

And no I'm not the problem. I was one of the ones that said we needed to do a National Search instead of hiring Arnett. I said that hiring Barbay was a major risk. In fact had your little booster friends LISTENED to me instead of trying to get their access football would be much better. So, YOU are the problem because you have no clue how to win at anything and clearly have no idea what the hell you are talking about based on the FACTS. But by all means keep listening to the people that burned this down to start with and take their advice on how to put this fire out.

And I will edit this to say this- the "baseball AD" who you blame left us a football coach that won 9 games before that coach passed away and several memorable wins in three years. It wasn't baseball or Cohen that ****ed things up after that now was it? Because Cohen was at Auburn when Leach passed away. Riddle your booster friends that shit while they blame people like me while they're holding the smoking matches in their hands.

[Todd4State]

Eh, the reason baseball hasn't had to do any of that is because Ron Polk built the program into a national brand long ago. We are basically like a Alabama, UGA, Tennessee, LSU, UF" of baseball. We have a brand and thus we benefit when we have coaching searches in that sport and we don't have to rely on Jucos etc.

I mean baseball recruiting and football are different but we recruit on an Alabama football level in baseball. We get to pick from the cream of the crop.

Comparing our baseball program to football is comparing apples to oranges. We have always been successful in baseball, we have rarely been successful in football with several stints mirroring what we are seeing now.

The problem with football is we don't have a brand and we don't have the $$. You don't needs tons of money to recruit in baseball although that is changing. You now need millions to field a legit roster in football and that number is growing. We also have god awful fan support when it comes to football. Our stadium looked like a cusa crowd all year. Nobody shows up. If I'm a recruit and I am in Starkville for a game and then go to USC or even UK the environments aren't in the same ballpark.

Baseball in general makes better decisions. But baseball has also had some downs too. Ole Miss literally passed us (And probably USM too) between 2002-2010. Cann was a disaster. Trying to fix that situation was sloppy at best- see the Jim Schlossnagle saga.

Assuming we win 2 games this year that's actually only third time that has happened since 1980- 1988 and 2003 are the others.

That said, football needs to step it up. But it's absolutely foolish to drag baseball into in any way shape or form. Baseball needs to keep doing what it is doing. Basketball needs to keep doing what it is doing. Football needs to get fixed. I agree with everything that you are saying about football. But if even all they do is hire a quality DC- something that MSU has historically almost always been able to do across multiple eras even bad ones- that could go a long way towards improving thing in and of itself.

[Todd4State]

B-b-b-b-b-but we play Bad to the Bone, Madalon, and yell ANOTHER T!!! The atmosphere is great!!

We also brought in a DJ. And he isn't playing Golden Oldies. Which is fine. I like the DJ and I think he was a great addition.

MSU needs a good mix of music because when you have 40K people you aren't play a song that everyone likes every time.

You bitch about "old" things but the group that wanted "Don't Stop Believing" to be replaced are also some of the same ones complaining about a bad atmosphere and tradition too.

[Todd4State]

Like I stated hiring the right guy is important.

I think it's THE most important. People talk about baseball. What would it have been without Polk?

Look at Alabama. Completely different with Saban compared to DeBoer and Shula.

Winning games on the field is the most important thing. Even the people that are there to show off their dresses and tailgate have more fun when the team wins.

[Jarius]

Then explain to me why Mike Leach was the 8th highest paid coach in the SEC in 2022?

https://businessofcollegesports.com/coaches/college-football-coaching-salaries-sec/

This is hilarious on the day we just got a 3 million dollar donation for NIL. And only weeks after an 8 million dollar donation.

No response for the fact that we renovated football first BEFORE Dudy Noble? And renovating baseball was absolutely warranted at the time. Our old facility was falling behind most SEC teams and anyone that has ever been to the new stadium has no regrets.

Oh by the way Tennessee is renovating their baseball stadium for 95 million dollars.

https://utsports.com/news/2023/6/8/general-transformational-renovation-project-at-lindsey-nelson-stadium.aspx

Football's problem isn't money. It's making bad hires. And that's not baseball's fault.



The eighth highest paid coach in the conference! Someone call the press! Jesus 17ing Christ. Tennessee has 3 times the money we do, so they can afford that. We can’t.

[Jarius]

I didn't say that we were hitting our ceiling with any of those coaches. I said we had success with those coaches. What Ole Miss has accomplished with Kiffin and their 15-20 million dollar team is literally no better than what we accomplished with Dan or Jackie. Dan Mullen averaged around 7.5 wins a year at MSU. Lane Kiffin is only averaging a little over 8.1 wins at Ole Miss. I did some rounding there because I did it in my head but as you can see it's really not that much different. And really the only true marquee win they have had is the one that they had over Georgia.

Also- we just won 17 SEC games in baseball. We are a far cry from the worst team in the SEC.

And no I'm not the problem. I was one of the ones that said we needed to do a National Search instead of hiring Arnett. I said that hiring Barbay was a major risk. In fact had your little booster friends LISTENED to me instead of trying to get their access football would be much better. So, YOU are the problem because you have no clue how to win at anything and clearly have no idea what the hell you are talking about based on the FACTS. But by all means keep listening to the people that burned this down to start with and take their advice on how to put this fire out.

And I will edit this to say this- the "baseball AD" who you blame left us a football coach that won 9 games before that coach passed away and several memorable wins in three years. It wasn't baseball or Cohen that ****ed things up after that now was it? Because Cohen was at Auburn when Leach passed away. Riddle your booster friends that shit while they blame people like me while they're holding the smoking matches in their hands.

What ole Miss has done in the past 5 years is better than our entire history. You are using a Covid shortend all SEC schedule in your averages. I didn’t want to hire Arnett, but when we did I supported him, just as I will Lebby until he proves he can’t do the job. My little booster friends didn’t want to hire Arnett either. You propping up cohen is weird and stupid. He was the worst AD we have ever had. And I also don’t like Selmon, but he inherited a mess from your baseball bozo who refused to embrace NIL and his version of it was selling autographed 17ing baseballs

[BigDawg81]

Baseball in general makes better decisions. But baseball has also had some downs too. Ole Miss literally passed us (And probably USM too) between 2002-2010. Cann was a disaster. Trying to fix that situation was sloppy at best- see the Jim Schlossnagle saga.

Assuming we win 2 games this year that's actually only third time that has happened since 1980- 1988 and 2003 are the others.

That said, football needs to step it up. But it's absolutely foolish to drag baseball into in any way shape or form. Baseball needs to keep doing what it is doing. Basketball needs to keep doing what it is doing. Football needs to get fixed. I agree with everything that you are saying about football. But if even all they do is hire a quality DC- something that MSU has historically almost always been able to do across multiple eras even bad ones- that could go a long way towards improving thing in and of itself. I just found odd that basketball, baseball, soccer and other sports are doing but our cash cow is in the worst shape. The past administrations is the biggest reason why the football program is where it is today. That?s Kennum too.

[Cooterpoot]

Michigan announced they are committing $50MM per year to building a football team. We cant keep up and everybody knows it. Trying to pretend that we can is wasted time

Michigan won't be able to put $50MM a year to just football very long either. Not one school in college football can do it long term.

[Cooterpoot]

The eighth highest paid coach in the conference! Someone call the press! Jesus 17ing Christ. Tennessee has 3 times the money we do, so they can afford that. We can’t, moron.

A good portion of that TN project is on hold now

[Jarius]

A good portion of that TN project is on hold now

Makes sense

[Todd4State]

The eighth highest paid coach in the conference! Someone call the press! Jesus 17ing Christ. Tennessee has 3 times the money we do, so they can afford that. We can’t.

You should tell your booster friends. A SEC school that is "baseball focused" paying their football coach in the middle of the pack in the SEC flies in the face of your incorrect narrative.

And I'm pretty sure we offered Mullen more than we were going to pay Leach as well and he turned it down to go to Florida. And I would imagine that had Leach survived we would have at least matched Ole Miss's 7+ million for Kiffin with Kiffin getting a raise after that year.

One narrative after another blowing up in your face with facts.

[Todd4State]

What ole Miss has done in the past 5 years is better than our entire history. You are using a Covid shortend all SEC schedule in your averages. I didn’t want to hire Arnett, but when we did I supported him, just as I will Lebby until he proves he can’t do the job. My little booster friends didn’t want to hire Arnett either. You propping up cohen is weird and stupid. He was the worst AD we have ever had. And I also don’t like Selmon, but he inherited a mess from your baseball bozo who refused to embrace NIL and his version of it was selling autographed 17ing baseballs

I included the COVID year in Leach's totals as well. If I didn't include it Leach's average win total would be one game better and closer to Kiffin's so by including it I voluntarily hurt my position in the name of fairness. Kiffin lost 5 SEC games his first year so his record that year would have likely been about 6-6 anyway so the numbers aren't far apart even if you play the hypothetical game.

I was unaware of Ole Miss winning the SEC West Championship the past five years? Their season last year was the equivalent of our 1999 season and that is the season their fans have called "the best ever!" Actually our 1999 season was probably better as we never really got blown out that year unlike Ole Miss. And their season this year is roughly the equivalent of our 2018 season which so many of our fans have run down and called disappointing. Including losses to Kentucky and Florida. Except their Kentucky and LSU losses are way worse. Not to mention Kiffin and Ole Miss have had extremely favorable schedules the past few years- which is part of the reason why he has one marquee win in five years. Which is something Leach accomplished in 1 game and Dan accomplished in year one himself by winning the Egg Bowl. Basically Lane Kiffin is Dan Mullen without having to play Alabama every year. Actually, I take that back- he's worse than Dan because he has even fewer marquee wins.

Which is why your whole point about baseball is stupid. This is what I am talking about when I say that you want to destroy baseball so we can essentially have Dan Mullen seasons. Which we have consistently done anyway with the RIGHT coach- Dan, Leach, and Jackie. Except when they go all in on football and ruin everything else they are actually going to end up worse off because now they're going to have a disappointing football season and are probably going to have donate who knows how much more to keep the team from opting out of whatever bowl they go to. AND they're going to suck in the other sports as well such as basketball. Meanwhile we're trying to rebuild football but at least we're strong in basketball, women's soccer, women's basketball and baseball. Only a matter of time before football finally catches up and hopefully smarter people than you and your friends take control.

And Cohen? LOL. Guess who lead a coup and put him in charge as AD in the first place? That's already been answered in this thread.

And by the way- blindly supporting unqualified people like Arnett is WHY we are where we are right now as much as anything and one of the most poor Mississippi State things ever.

[Todd4State]

I just found odd that basketball, baseball, soccer and other sports are doing but our cash cow is in the worst shape. The past administrations is the biggest reason why the football program is where it is today. That?s Kennum too.

Well, just two years ago football was 9-4 and was one of the few teams that beat Ole Miss in Oxford during the Kiffin era. It's really simply a matter of hiring competent people to run the program from a coaching standpoint.

I said it earlier in another thread a few weeks ago- Hutzler's resume' compared to the other DC's in the SEC is laughable. If you had to pick "one of these isn't like the other" among the other DC's resume's you would obviously pick his. As would anyone else. Barbay had similar issues. I found out from talking to App State fans that he had been essentially demoted during the season and their head coach took over play calling. That should have been a major red flag along with the fact he couldn't communicate his offensive identity to anyone- probably because he has no clue what it is himself. When I revealed what I had found about Barbay I was told that I was an "Air Raid cult member". Arnett actually was worse than I thought he would be. And my expectations were pretty low. He was literally the worst head coach we ever had.

If we bring in a competent DC- even if it was Geoff Collins and I don't care for him as a coach at all- he would be an improvement. Give me the 27.whatever points that UNC is allowing and we're probably in a bowl with a decent chance to upset Ole Miss on Friday. I hope we bring in someone better than Geoff because we can though.

[BrunswickDawg]

Then explain to me why Mike Leach was the 8th highest paid coach in the SEC in 2022?

https://businessofcollegesports.com/coaches/college-football-coaching-salaries-sec/

This is hilarious on the day we just got a 3 million dollar donation for NIL. And only weeks after an 8 million dollar donation.

No response for the fact that we renovated football first BEFORE Dudy Noble? And renovating baseball was absolutely warranted at the time. Our old facility was falling behind most SEC teams and anyone that has ever been to the new stadium has no regrets.

Oh by the way Tennessee is renovating their baseball stadium for 95 million dollars.

https://utsports.com/news/2023/6/8/general-transformational-renovation-project-at-lindsey-nelson-stadium.aspx

Football's problem isn't money. It's making bad hires. And that's not baseball's fault.

Don't forget that we funded a $25 million football facility before the Dude too. And multiple multi- million dollar upgrades across the board to softball, indoor tennis, golf. We put upwards of $250m into athletic facilities in roughly a decade - at the same time we were fielding our highest paid football staff and having our biggest run in baseball. We can get facilities money and fund sports at the same time - or could - until Cohen burned the fundraising infrastructure to the ground.

[Jarius]

You should tell your booster friends. A SEC school that is "baseball focused" paying their football coach in the middle of the pack in the SEC flies in the face of your incorrect narrative.

And I'm pretty sure we offered Mullen more than we were going to pay Leach as well and he turned it down to go to Florida. And I would imagine that had Leach survived we would have at least matched Ole Miss's 7+ million for Kiffin with Kiffin getting a raise after that year.

One narrative after another blowing up in your face with facts.

There is more to a budget than a coach’s salary. We have always had the smallest recruiting budget and support staff budget in the league. Compare that to our baseball program’s budget within the league. Compare our facilities in football to the rest of the league and then do so with baseball. Having the 8th highest paid coach in the conference and your in state rival doubling you up on money spent on off the field staff and recruiting isn’t the flex you think it is. That’s saying “8-4 is good enough”. That mindset would not fly in baseball. This university uses the cash cow as a rented mule paycheck to prop up a bunch of semi athletic white kids because they are too chicken sh*t to try and compete in the sport that everyone else cares about.

[Jarius]

I included the COVID year in Leach's totals as well. If I didn't include it Leach's average win total would be one game better and closer to Kiffin's so by including it I voluntarily hurt my position in the name of fairness. Kiffin lost 5 SEC games his first year so his record that year would have likely been about 6-6 anyway so the numbers aren't far apart even if you play the hypothetical game.

I was unaware of Ole Miss winning the SEC West Championship the past five years? Their season last year was the equivalent of our 1999 season and that is the season their fans have called "the best ever!" Actually our 1999 season was probably better as we never really got blown out that year unlike Ole Miss. And their season this year is roughly the equivalent of our 2018 season which so many of our fans have run down and called disappointing. Including losses to Kentucky and Florida. Except their Kentucky and LSU losses are way worse. Not to mention Kiffin and Ole Miss have had extremely favorable schedules the past few years- which is part of the reason why he has one marquee win in five years. Which is something Leach accomplished in 1 game and Dan accomplished in year one himself by winning the Egg Bowl. Basically Lane Kiffin is Dan Mullen without having to play Alabama every year. Actually, I take that back- he's worse than Dan because he has even fewer marquee wins.

Which is why your whole point about baseball is stupid. This is what I am talking about when I say that you want to destroy baseball so we can essentially have Dan Mullen seasons. Which we have consistently done anyway with the RIGHT coach- Dan, Leach, and Jackie. Except when they go all in on football and ruin everything else they are actually going to end up worse off because now they're going to have a disappointing football season and are probably going to have donate who knows how much more to keep the team from opting out of whatever bowl they go to. AND they're going to suck in the other sports as well such as basketball. Meanwhile we're trying to rebuild football but at least we're strong in basketball, women's soccer, women's basketball and baseball. Only a matter of time before football finally catches up and hopefully smarter people than you and your friends take control.

And Cohen? LOL. Guess who lead a coup and put him in charge as AD in the first place? That's already been answered in this thread.

And by the way- blindly supporting unqualified people like Arnett is WHY we are where we are right now as much as anything and one of the most poor Mississippi State things ever.

You keep on quoting 1 off years and acting like that’s the norm and also acting like that is the standard we should be shooting for. We don’t want to go 8-4 and say “look we aren’t awful”. We want to go to the playoffs. We want the administration to put as much effort in having a really good football program as they do baseball. We are the only school in the conference with an open end zone. We are the only school in the conference with no IPF. We are the only school in the conference with no LED lights and a megaphone for a speaker system. We have the nicest baseball facilities in the entire country. That’s 17ing ridiculous. Also, We did not compete with Dan Mullen or Mike Leach. We simply were not awful. No one wants to kill baseball for Dan Mullen success. We want to slash funding to be in line with our budget (as every other school does) and have Kiffin success. Comparing what Kiffin has done at Ole Miss to Dan Mullen seriously makes you look unintelligent to put it nicely. We can’t have the success that they are having right now and go all in on your favorite sport. You quoting us competing 2 times for anything in the past 35 years is proof of that. Yes, hiring competent people is the key. It takes money to do that. We go cheap in football and don’t in baseball. That’s why our success rate on hiring competent people is much higher in baseball. Really simple basic sh*t that I should not be having to explain to you. There is a reason Ole Miss is now last in baseball and that’s because they figured out what butters their bread. You can spin (and boy are you 17ing spinning) however you want, but I’m correct. You and your little booster friends’ mentality that has been rampant in this university for 50 years is going to have us in the sunbelt

[Todd4State]

You keep on quoting 1 off years and acting like that’s the norm and also acting like that is the standard we should be shooting for. We don’t want to go 8-4 and say “look we aren’t awful”. We want to go to the playoffs. We want the administration to put as much effort in having a really good football program as they do baseball. We are the only school in the conference with an open end zone. We are the only school in the conference with no IPF. We are the only school in the conference with no LED lights and a megaphone for a speaker system. We have the nicest baseball facilities in the entire country. That’s 17ing ridiculous. Also, We did not compete with Dan Mullen or Mike Leach. We simply were not awful. No one wants to kill baseball for Dan Mullen success. We want to slash funding to be in line with our budget (as every other school does) and have Kiffin success. Comparing what Kiffin has done at Ole Miss to Dan Mullen seriously makes you look unintelligent to put it nicely. We can’t have the success that they are having right now and go all in on your favorite sport. You quoting us competing 2 times for anything in the past 35 years is proof of that. Yes, hiring competent people is the key. It takes money to do that. We go cheap in football and don’t in baseball. That’s why our success rate on hiring competent people is much higher in baseball. Really simple basic sh*t that I should not be having to explain to you. There is a reason Ole Miss is now last in baseball and that’s because they figured out what butters their bread. You can spin (and boy are you 17ing spinning) however you want, but I’m correct. You and your little booster friends’ mentality that has been rampant in this university for 50 years is going to have us in the sunbelt

You're the one that keeps mentioning Ole Miss going all in as your prime example. I'm just telling you what the result of them going all in was. That's not MY standard- but apparently it is yours since you are using a team that is likely going 9-3 and missing the playoffs this year after going "all in." And you don't think Ole Miss winning 11 games last year was a "one off"? That's literally the only time they have had a season like that. And if anything their season this year shows how unsustainable it would be. They also have an elite college QB and a very favorable schedule. What's going to happen when that's not the case anymore? And tell me- what is the difference between Kiffin taking Ole Miss to the Outback Bowl and Leach and Dan taking us there? Other than they blew 14-20 million dollars to do it. There is no difference. And really no different than when we had high expectations in 2018 and Moorhead had pretty much the same season Ole Miss had this year.

And I agree that the administration should put as much into football as they do baseball. I disagree that we should or have to destroy baseball in the process of doing that. Because they don't have to do that. I'm a proponent of putting as much as we can into both and making both as good as they possibly can be. And of course football needs to step it up. You literally have national writers wondering why the hell our administration won't use the interlocking MSU that is so popular with fans. I don't know why being excellent in all sports is a bad thing or a bad goal to have?

Did you really say that we weren't competitive with Dan and Leach? Dan literally had us as the number one team in the country for a few weeks. But I'm the "unintelligent" one.

And don't get mad because you did the typical MSU fan "let's praise Ole Miss for doing the same thing we ran MSU down for." You're the one that looks like a complete dumbass because you apparently don't realize what Ole Miss has actually done- which is kind of hard to believe since it's literally in black and white. Hell you apparently forgot what we did in 2014. And 1998, 1999. I kept it at two things because I knew that's about your limit as far as counting goes.

I'm not spinning anything. I'm providing facts and produced it for you. YOU on the other hand have basically spewed incorrect hyperbole and straw men that I have basically proven aren't true over and over and over again. We only go cheap in football when we hire an Arnett or someone like that. We paid Dan and Leach competitively. Did you really think MSU should have given Arnett the 5.5 million we paid Leach in 2022? That has nothing to do with baseball.

The problem with your stance and why it is wrong is because it is predicated on us either not having enough money to fund football because of baseball or either baseball is forcing football to make poor choices.

I've already proven that it's not about money- see the expansion that football put in when it enclosed the stadium for 5 million MORE than Dudy Noble and was put in BEFORE Dudy Noble. See the football complex. See the donations that have poured in for football to the tune of 11 million dollars the past two months- and those are just the two big ones. Football got FAR MORE than baseball the past 10 years and that's including the new baseball field.

And as far as the second point- I'm pretty sure that even you don't think baseball is telling Lemonis to not put in LED lights or enclose the stadium or hire Arnett.

So no- you're not correct. You're wrong. You're booster friends are wrong just like when they brought back Brad Peterson. Not only are you wrong- you have absolutely NOTHING to back up your point AND you look completely stupid as well.

Oh and by the way- Ole Miss is killing their baseball program to get rid of Bianco because contrary to your belief- they think they can do better and they care.

[Coach34]

Technically- football is not our cash cow. That stopped years ago.

TV money is our cash cow and being in the SEC getting that check is what pays the bills.

[EdwardDrayton]

No two ways about it. Ole Miss is the sports program in the state right now. We're sucking hind teat. Hopefully we'll find some folks with big enough balls to admit that and 17ing fix it.

[Todd4State]

Technically- football is not our cash cow. That stopped years ago.

TV money is our cash cow and being in the SEC getting that check is what pays the bills.

This is very true.

[Todd4State]

No two ways about it. Ole Miss is the sports program in the state right now. We're sucking hind teat. Hopefully we'll find some folks with big enough balls to admit that and 17ing fix it.

I'll take where we are in basketball and baseball over where they are right now.

I really feel like it's only a matter of time before football gets fixed. Next year I think we find out if Lebby is the one who will be the one leading it long term or not.

[State82]

Technically- football is not our cash cow. That stopped years ago.

TV money is our cash cow and being in the SEC getting that check is what pays the bills.

This is exactly what I've said for a long time now. The SEC membership keeps the entire athletic department doors open. Obviously you have to have a football program to be eligible for the check but the conference affiliation is the cash cow.

[Offshore Dawg]

This is exactly what I've said for a long time now. The SEC membership keeps the entire athletic department doors open. Obviously you have to have a football program to be eligible for the check but the conference affiliation is the cash cow.

This entirely 👌

[Cooterpoot]

Technically- football is not our cash cow. That stopped years ago.

TV money is our cash cow and being in the SEC getting that check is what pays the bills.

That's based off a football tv contract primarily though. Without football, there is no check.

[Coursesuper]

Technically- football is not our cash cow. That stopped years ago.

TV money is our cash cow and being in the SEC getting that check is what pays the bills.

C 34, we still count on football to try to make up shortfalls. It is the straw that stirs the drink. Gonna be more shortfalls budget wise this year to go along with a string of them.