Tom Herman Fired at FAU

[Really Clark?]

A lot of people really wanted him hired here last year.

[Goldendawg]

A lot of people really wanted him hired here last year.

Could he have gone 2-10 or maybe 3-9 for us? Did he know a good position coach to be our DC*****

[Coach34]

Our new coach is doing a worse job than the guy we just fired

[PGHBulldogBG]

Our new coach is doing a worse job than the guy we just fired

That’s because we keep hiring coordinators instead of coaches with head coaching experience

[BeardoMSU]

Our new coach is doing a worse job than the guy we just fired

Lolz...well, at least your boys have time to hang out and pick your brain for it's offensive genius...**

[Quaoarsking]

Our new coach is doing a worse job than the guy we just fired

We've really hit rock bottom...

[DownwardDawg]

Our new coach is doing a worse job than the guy we just fired

This is a fact.....unfortunately.

[Cowbell]

Our new coach is doing a worse job than the guy we just fired

And most of our fans don't agree with this for some reason

[TrapGame]

I remember when Herman and Frost were the shooting stars of the college coaching world. Now, not so much.

[KB21]

Our new coach is doing a worse job than the guy we just fired

No, he isn't. He's got 2 wins right now because of the shit job Arnett did. Arnett destroyed the program and left nothing in the cupboard.

[Coach34]

No, he isn't. He's got 2 wins right now because of the shit job Arnett did. Arnett destroyed the program and left nothing in the cupboard.

Arnett was HC for 10 months. He didnt destroy anything. Leach started that process

[Gutter Cobreh]

Arnett was HC for 10 months. He didnt destroy anything. Leach started that process

What was Arnett's role before becoming HC? How long did he hold that position? And finally, what side of the ball are we struggling with the most this season?

I'll hang up and listen.

[HancockCountyDog]

No, he isn't. He's got 2 wins right now because of the shit job Arnett did. Arnett destroyed the program and left nothing in the cupboard.

Dude - I'm not a Leach hater like some on here, but blaming Arnett for the state of the roster is like blaming the President because the mailman is banging your wife.

If you go back and look at the recruiting classes that should be seniors/juniors, all you see is a bunch of non-SEC level players.

Leach did a lot of good things here at MSU, recruiting was not one of them. His coaching/scheme usually made up for his recruiting failures, we don't have that now.

This really isn't debatable.

[KB21]

Arnett was HC for 10 months. He didnt destroy anything. Leach started that process

Arnett was in charge of recruiting on defense and also developing those players on defense. Defense is our biggest issue because we have an FCS caliber DL and players who were never developed under Arnett. Zach Arnett took a team that won 9 games in 2022 and had 16-17 starters returning and burned it to the ground. Jeff Lebby inherited a roster that had one player who started on a 5-win team. Jeff Lebby's offense is miles better than the shit offense Kevin Barbay and his run run run punt philosophy, and that's with a true freshman at QB and new starters at every position.

Zach Arnett should be seen as a pariah by Mississippi State fans. He's the single worst thing that has ever happened to the program.

[Santiago]

I am old enough to remember we had a coach winning games and being competitive, but there were nicknames on this site about his offense because he didn't run the ball.
We had an offense hard to defend each week , could control the clock or speed up, and could utilize lesser talented players. But the heck with that. Now we are cooking ***

[StarkVegasSteve]

At the end of the day the HC is responsible for the program and everything involved with it. When our recruiting on defense started to downturn, the HC was Mike Leach. It continued to trend down under Zach Arnett. They are both responsible for the crap we find ourselves in. Leach could just scheme better and knew how to win with inferior talent. Arnett did not.

However, the main person we need to be blaming that somehow gets no blame is Dave Emerick. He was in charge of recruiting until Leach's last year. He screwed us. He and his recruiting dept ID'd players that couldn't play at this level.

[Coach34]

At the end of the day the HC is responsible for the program and everything involved with it. When our recruiting on defense started to downturn, the HC was Mike Leach. It continued to trend down under Zach Arnett. They are both responsible for the crap we find ourselves in. Leach could just scheme better and knew how to win with inferior talent. Arnett did not.

However, the main person we need to be blaming that somehow gets no blame is Dave Emerick. He was in charge of recruiting until Leach's last year. He screwed us. He and his recruiting dept ID'd players that couldn't play at this level.

Good post. 100% on Emerick. He restricted players we could recruit and Leach let him do it

[RezDog7]

Arnett was HC for 10 months. He didnt destroy anything. Mullen started that process

FIFY

Basically your hot wife left you and your three kids and the best you've been able to do since is ugly fat tinder chicks.

[Quaoarsking]

Two things are simultaneously true:

Arnett did a bad job in 2023, though he did at least beat Arizona and Arkansas.

Lebby has done a bad job so far in 2024, but at least he has 2 more games to mitigate that.

[KB21]

Two things are simultaneously true:

Arnett did a bad job in 2023, though he did at least beat Arizona and Arkansas.

Lebby has done a bad job so far in 2024, but at least he has 2 more games to mitigate that.

Not true. Lebby's results are bad, but it's not because he is doing a bad job. It's because Arnett left him nothing.

[StarkVegasSteve]

Not true. Lebby's results are bad, but it's not because he is doing a bad job. It's because Arnett left him nothing.

Lebby got here and had access to his office on November 27th. The portal officially opened on Dec. 4. So Lebby had a week to evaluate what he had, ID what we needed out of the portal, and start setting up visits. Oh and btw, he was also having to keep and add to a HS signing class as well as hire a staff. Other schools do that throughout the year. Not in 7 days. So when the portal opens, they already have been talking to guys, setting up visits, knowing what they need, etc.

We are actually organized this time around. The results will be better.

[Todd4State]

Lebby got here and had access to his office on November 27th. The portal officially opened on Dec. 4. So Lebby had a week to evaluate what he had, ID what we needed out of the portal, and start setting up visits. Oh and btw, he was also having to keep and add to a HS signing class as well as hire a staff. Other schools do that throughout the year. Not in 7 days. So when the portal opens, they already have been talking to guys, setting up visits, knowing what they need, etc.

We are actually organized this time around. The results will be better.

In other words Arnett was about to bring in nothing. I would imagine at most other places there has been some leg work done.

And as bad as we are- no Lebby means no Craver, Van Buren, and etc.

At least has some players that can give us some hope for the future.

[Todd4State]

At the end of the day the HC is responsible for the program and everything involved with it. When our recruiting on defense started to downturn, the HC was Mike Leach. It continued to trend down under Zach Arnett. They are both responsible for the crap we find ourselves in. Leach could just scheme better and knew how to win with inferior talent. Arnett did not.

However, the main person we need to be blaming that somehow gets no blame is Dave Emerick. He was in charge of recruiting until Leach's last year. He screwed us. He and his recruiting dept ID'd players that couldn't play at this level.

With the portal there is very little reason to blame people that were here 2-3 years ago. I'm not saying there weren't issues. I'm saying that there has been ample time to fix any issues.

There are teams that can completely rebuild in one offseason. MSU failed to do so.

[Matt3467]

Saying Arnett and co did a better job than Lebby this year without the context isn't right. Arnett terribly mismanaged his role as HC and even worse he lied to his players and lost the team. Lebby has to come in after the fact and wade through all the mess that was made and aside from his terrible decision for DC and our defense I'm hopeful for our future once we get that side of the ball fixed. I had zero optimism at all under Arnett.

[StarkVegasSteve]

In other words Arnett was about to bring in nothing. I would imagine at most other places there has been some leg work done.

And as bad as we are- no Lebby means no Craver, Van Buren, and etc.

At least has some players that can give us some hope for the future.

I don't know about "nothing". I mean Craver committed under the old staff so you do have to give them credit there. Although that might've been more Bumphis. No Lebby does mean no MVB and no Coleman.

[StarkVegasSteve]

Saying Arnett and co did a better job than Lebby this year without the context isn't right. Arnett terribly mismanaged his role as HC and even worse he lied to his players and lost the team. Lebby has to come in after the fact and wade through all the mess that was made and aside from his terrible decision for DC and our defense I'm hopeful for our future once we get that side of the ball fixed. I had zero optimism at all under Arnett.

Arnett is the same coach that stood in front of his team after Kentucky, a game we lost 24-3, and said, "two more wins and my job is safe". Not two more wins and we go to a bowl or two more wins and we can start to build some momentum. Nope. "Two more wins and MY JOB is safe".

[DawgFromOxford]

This is like arguing about who?s s*** doesn?t stink. Everyone carries some blame. The school hired Cohen. Cohen hired Leach. Leach didn?t recruit and hired guys who couldn?t evaluate talent. Keenum hired Arnett. Arnett took bad advice and was in over his head. Lebby hired a DC that makes Peter Sirmon look good.

Put all of those together and you get a 2-10 season with a quite an uphill climb to reverse trajectory.

[Bothrops]

With the portal there is very little reason to blame people that were here 2-3 years ago. I'm not saying there weren't issues. I'm saying that there has been ample time to fix any issues.

There are teams that can completely rebuild in one offseason. MSU failed to do so.

For one, and because of who we are, it took us longer to understand that the NIL/portal era was a permanent move. A real thing. Secondly, we also didn't understand what kind of jack it was going take to take to win these bidding wars. It was more than we expected. Now we have a better idea, or at least we should, but the price of business is going up every year. Our program was in a state of shock, so to speak. In other words, they didn't write ****ry songs about this.

[PGHBulldogBG]

Arnett is the same coach that stood in front of his team after Kentucky, a game we lost 24-3, and said, "two more wins and my job is safe". Not two more wins and we go to a bowl or two more wins and we can start to build some momentum. Nope. "Two more wins and MY JOB is safe".

Yea that is when I was fully done with Arnett. I actually liked the guy and wanted him to succeed, but after losing to a very average UK team at home by 3 TDs I knew he was in over his head. In a way he is right because had he beat UK and then beat USM I’m not 100 percent convinced we would have fired him at 6-6 and a bowl. That probably would’ve made this year even more of a train wreck if that is even possible

[State82]

In a way he is right because had he beat UK and then beat USM I’m not 100 percent convinced we would have fired him at 6-6 and a bowl.

No way we would have fired him in that scenario.

[Coach34]

For one, and because of who we are, it took us longer to understand that the NIL/portal era was a permanent move. A real thing. Secondly, we also didn't understand what kind of jack it was going take to take to win these bidding wars. It was more than we expected. Now we have a better idea, or at least we should, but the price of business is going up every year. Our program was in a state of shock, so to speak. In other words, they didn't write ****ry songs about this.

We still as a school/fanbase havent accepted the reality of where college football is. It takes $10MM to get enough players to stay out of the bottom of the SEC in football. That scares the hell out of our people. Thats why blaming coaches like we did 10 years ago useless. It's a new age and its money centered first and other aspects after

[SPMT]

Lebby got here and had access to his office on November 27th. The portal officially opened on Dec. 4. So Lebby had a week to evaluate what he had, ID what we needed out of the portal, and start setting up visits. Oh and btw, he was also having to keep and add to a HS signing class as well as hire a staff. Other schools do that throughout the year. Not in 7 days. So when the portal opens, they already have been talking to guys, setting up visits, knowing what they need, etc.

We are actually organized this time around. The results will be better.

That?s impossible

[Quaoarsking]

Not true. Lebby's results are bad, but it's not because he is doing a bad job. It's because Arnett left him nothing.

The guy is likely to finish 2-10, including getting completely manhandled by Toledo. It's a bad job.

He could win a game or two over the next 2 weekends and improve in my eyes, and maybe he'll turn it around in the future, but there's really nothing good or neutral to say about this season. We were kinda competitive in a couple games I guess, but in none of our losses (other than maybe Texas A&M) did I ever think we had a good chance of winning.

[Coach34]

exactly- we got manhandled by Toledo. We bought players and got our ass handed to us. Let's not act like a good job has even remotely been done this season.

[Todd4State]

We still as a school/fanbase havent accepted the reality of where college football is. It takes $10MM to get enough players to stay out of the bottom of the SEC in football. That scares the hell out of our people. Thats why blaming coaches like we did 10 years ago useless. It's a new age and its money centered first and other aspects after

I think a big reason why our fans don't like to pay is because then the onus is on the fans a lot more meaning it's more their fault. It's just easier to blame Dan or whoever the coach is. The thing is our fans have never really had a problem paying for the Bulldog Club. I'm not saying that donations there couldn't improve too but it's just that you never saw the "I ain't never paying that" attitude that some people have. The new set-up with the Bulldog Excellence Foundation that they just started may help some with that. I would be like "yeah you're paying the Bulldog Club" and a lot of our fans will have no idea that some of that money is going to NIL.

Also, let's be honest. Ole Miss cares a lot more about football than they do about basketball, baseball, women's soccer, etc. and what that means is to compete in state for football players we have higher bidding wars for players. It's also partially why we're a lot better than they are in basketball, baseball and etc. too. I mean, if Josh Hubbard was a football player odds are he would be at Ole Miss right now.

Now, we can compete with them. We've won football battles over the years too- Chris Jones, Simmons, Tulu, and many others. Some I'm not saying that we can't compete but to do so at the level we want to we're probably going to have to go above and beyond. Which means we're going to have to overspend some to get players which MSU absolutely does not like to do- especially for football. How many times have we heard "We're not going to get so and so because his price is to ridiculous." It may be worth it sometimes to pay a ridiculous price for a player. We're never going to hit 100% on players anyway and I would rather spend and overpay on someone that is average than get someone at market value that sucks.

[Todd4State]

For one, and because of who we are, it took us longer to understand that the NIL/portal era was a permanent move. A real thing. Secondly, we also didn't understand what kind of jack it was going take to take to win these bidding wars. It was more than we expected. Now we have a better idea, or at least we should, but the price of business is going up every year. Our program was in a state of shock, so to speak. In other words, they didn't write ****ry songs about this.

That's why I think Cohen is the main culprit here. It's like he thought that since selling autographed baseballs didn't work he was just going to let everything wither and die on the vine. Charlie Winfield literally saved MSU athletics.

To me it's the AD's job to say "Hey, this is the reality. This is what we need to do and what it is going to take." And really how many times have MSU fans ever had a problem with that? Heck, that's a big reason why baseball is what it is. Ron Polk would be like "Hey we need this" and the fans would donate/build whatever we needed to do. When have we ever had an AD say "Hey we really need an IPF for football"- I don't recall it. I wouldn't be shocked if we got the thing built in a year or two if Selmon pushed the issue.

[Todd4State]

Arnett is the same coach that stood in front of his team after Kentucky, a game we lost 24-3, and said, "two more wins and my job is safe". Not two more wins and we go to a bowl or two more wins and we can start to build some momentum. Nope. "Two more wins and MY JOB is safe".

Was that when Bookie confronted him?

[StarkVegasSteve]

Was that when Bookie confronted him?

Yep. That's the night.

[KB21]

The guy is likely to finish 2-10, including getting completely manhandled by Toledo. It's a bad job.

He could win a game or two over the next 2 weekends and improve in my eyes, and maybe he'll turn it around in the future, but there's really nothing good or neutral to say about this season. We were kinda competitive in a couple games I guess, but in none of our losses (other than maybe Texas A&M) did I ever think we had a good chance of winning.

Just because the results are 2-10 does not mean Jeff Lebby has done a bad coaching job. These results are a direct reflection of Zach Arnett, his defensive recruiting, his destruction of the offense in one season, and his lack of ability to develop players. Jeff Lebby inherited a complete mess and has to build this up from the ground. Did you honestly think a coach could have come in here with what Lebby inherited and produce a bowl team?

[BorneDawg]

I agree to some extent but most of the deals had been made when he got here ..... am I wrong?

[StarkVegasSteve]

I agree to some extent but most of the deals had been made when he got here ..... am I wrong?

A lot of them had, and unfortunately we weren't making the deals. By that, I mean that most of the guys who were entering the portal had already been contacted through backchannels and being tentatively offered deals. We are more on top of things this time around and already have some offers out to guys.

[BorneDawg]

yes and thats why I think Lebby needs a little slack this year.... Now has he done a great job....no.......... but is he the worst coach in our history....NO !!! We have not won as man games as Arnett did but over all we have been much more competitive/competent I think (except toledo)

[Quaoarsking]

Just because the results are 2-10 does not mean Jeff Lebby has done a bad coaching job. These results are a direct reflection of Zach Arnett, his defensive recruiting, his destruction of the offense in one season, and his lack of ability to develop players. Jeff Lebby inherited a complete mess and has to build this up from the ground. Did you honestly think a coach could have come in here with what Lebby inherited and produce a bowl team?

You understand there's a difference between "a bowl team" and "2-10 with a blowout loss to Toledo," right?

Again, I hope Lebby finishes better than 2-10 and causes me to rethink my grade for this season, but as of right now it's hard to see him getting better than an F.

[StarkVegasSteve]

You understand there's a difference between "a bowl team" and "2-10 with a blowout loss to Toledo," right?

Again, I hope Lebby finishes better than 2-10 and causes me to rethink my grade for this season, but as of right now it's hard to see him getting better than an F.

I give him a C-. The Toledo loss was really bad. No one is denying that. But are we really going to call Lebby a failure due to Toledo? I mean you're completely within your right to if you choose to do that. It's your opinion. But does the Arnett staff do any better? I mean you were going to be rolling with Chris Parson at QB with that staff. I don't think the results are any better. Maybe you beat Toledo, but people are forgetting something....our offense sucked outside of 3 games last year. We avg'd 12.6 ppg in conference play last year. And that's including the South Carolina game. Take that game out and we avg'd 10.1. Through 6 SEC games this year we are averaging 22.5. To take it out further, we avg'd. 21.8 ppg last year. We are averaging 27.6. On to the defense, I really don't think it's any better this year with Arnett. You still lose Jett, Bookie, DeCam, Preston, Banks, Nicholson, Pickering, and Crumedy. And I doubt that staff brings in anything better than what we brought in, heck it probably would've been worse.

[TrapGame]

I give him a C-. The Toledo loss was really bad. No one is denying that. But are we really going to call Lebby a failure due to Toledo? I mean you're completely within your right to if you choose to do that. It's your opinion. But does the Arnett staff do any better? I mean you were going to be rolling with Chris Parson at QB with that staff. I don't think the results are any better. Maybe you beat Toledo, but people are forgetting something....our offense sucked outside of 3 games last year. We avg'd 12.6 ppg in conference play last year. And that's including the South Carolina game. Take that game out and we avg'd 10.1. Through 6 SEC games this year we are averaging 22.5. To take it out further, we avg'd. 21.8 ppg last year. We are averaging 27.6. On to the defense, I really don't think it's any better this year with Arnett. You still lose Jett, Bookie, DeCam, Preston, Banks, Nicholson, Pickering, and Crumedy. And I doubt that staff brings in anything better than what we brought in, heck it probably would've been worse.

It's my understanding SVS (so correct me if you've heard otherwise) that Jason Candle lobbied for our job pretty hard and we didn't give him the time of day. That was a statement game for him.

[StarkVegasSteve]

It's my understanding SVS (so correct me if you've heard otherwise) that Jason Candle lobbied for our job pretty hard and we didn't give him the time of day. That was a statement game for him.

Not true in the least bit. I saw that rumor too and have legit no clue how it started. At least not this time around. Now he may have lobbied hard previously, maybe 2017 or 2021, but we had no contact with Candle or any of his representatives at Excel this time around. I think we had some discussions with him in either 2017 or 2021, but not real sure on how serious those ever were. I know he was never formally interviewed either time. He's holding out for a Big 10 job. He also can do whatever he wants at Toledo now and they're paying him around 1.2 million a year after his bonuses kick in so he's the highest paid coach in the conference, only McElwain is close to him. If Purdue moves off Walters this year, I could see Candle jumping at the chance. Most feel he's hit his ceiling at Toledo.

[Quaoarsking]

I give him a C-. The Toledo loss was really bad. No one is denying that. But are we really going to call Lebby a failure due to Toledo? I mean you're completely within your right to if you choose to do that. It's your opinion. But does the Arnett staff do any better? I mean you were going to be rolling with Chris Parson at QB with that staff. I don't think the results are any better. Maybe you beat Toledo, but people are forgetting something....our offense sucked outside of 3 games last year. We avg'd 12.6 ppg in conference play last year. And that's including the South Carolina game. Take that game out and we avg'd 10.1. Through 6 SEC games this year we are averaging 22.5. To take it out further, we avg'd. 21.8 ppg last year. We are averaging 27.6. On to the defense, I really don't think it's any better this year with Arnett. You still lose Jett, Bookie, DeCam, Preston, Banks, Nicholson, Pickering, and Crumedy. And I doubt that staff brings in anything better than what we brought in, heck it probably would've been worse.

Arnett sucked too and would probably be getting an F right now if we had kept him.

[Brobi-wan]

I give him a C-. The Toledo loss was really bad. No one is denying that. But are we really going to call Lebby a failure due to Toledo? I mean you're completely within your right to if you choose to do that. It's your opinion. But does the Arnett staff do any better? I mean you were going to be rolling with Chris Parson at QB with that staff. I don't think the results are any better. Maybe you beat Toledo, but people are forgetting something....our offense sucked outside of 3 games last year. We avg'd 12.6 ppg in conference play last year. And that's including the South Carolina game. Take that game out and we avg'd 10.1. Through 6 SEC games this year we are averaging 22.5. To take it out further, we avg'd. 21.8 ppg last year. We are averaging 27.6. On to the defense, I really don't think it's any better this year with Arnett. You still lose Jett, Bookie, DeCam, Preston, Banks, Nicholson, Pickering, and Crumedy. And I doubt that staff brings in anything better than what we brought in, heck it probably would've been worse.

Not unless we’re calling Dan a failure for losing to south Alabama two years after being ranked no.1

[StarkVegasSteve]

Arnett sucked too and would probably be getting an F right now if we had kept him.

I think defensively we'd probably be SCHEMATICALLY a bit better. I still think the talent would be bad. Basically instead of Arkansas scoring 58, they probably only score 38. The opposite of that is that we'd be MARKEDLY worse on offense. So instead of 28 against Arky we probably score 7-10 pts. With our schedule, I would imagine we'd be averaging between 6-9 ppg if Arnett was still the HC. I mean hell, we were basically averaging that with a senior QB and some weapons at WR.

[KB21]

I think defensively we'd probably be SCHEMATICALLY a bit better. I still think the talent would be bad. Basically instead of Arkansas scoring 58, they probably only score 38. The opposite of that is that we'd be MARKEDLY worse on offense. So instead of 28 against Arky we probably score 7-10 pts. With our schedule, I would imagine we'd be averaging between 6-9 ppg if Arnett was still the HC. I mean hell, we were basically averaging that with a senior QB and some weapons at WR.

Oh, I disagree that we would be schematically better. Any scheme that is based around you having to blitz to get pressure is not a great scheme. Particularly when the scheme is inherently weak against the pass.

[StarkVegasSteve]

Oh, I disagree that we would be schematically better. Any scheme that is based around you having to blitz to get pressure is not a great scheme. Particularly when the scheme is inherently weak against the pass.

I did not say we would be A LOT better. And I solely think we would be a little better because his specialty was defense whereas Jeff is offense. We would still have the same problems, Little talent and less depth, but maybe we are able to get to the QB a bit more. As I said though, I think our record is the same. Offensively we would still be a mess with no clue what we were trying to do on offense.

[KB21]

I did not say we would be A LOT better. And I solely think we would be a little better because his specialty was defense whereas Jeff is offense. We would still have the same problems, Little talent and less depth, but maybe we are able to get to the QB a bit more. As I said though, I think our record is the same. Offensively we would still be a mess with no clue what we were trying to do on offense.

Honestly, I think we would be even worse from a passing efficiency standpoint defensively. The defense in 2023 took a drastic decline when it came to pass efficiency after losing just a couple of starters in the secondary. There was a declining trend for three years prior to this year defensively as well.

[StarkVegasSteve]

Honestly, I think we would be even worse from a passing efficiency standpoint defensively. The defense in 2023 took a drastic decline when it came to pass efficiency after losing just a couple of starters in the secondary. There was a declining trend for three years prior to this year defensively as well.

I mean our defense was not what some made it out to be under Arnett. It was not great. He almost cost us the 22 Egg Bowl, he arguably did cost us 22 LSU by spying Daniels with Jett Johnson, and he probably cost us the 21 game at Arkansas by not daring Jefferson to throw it on us instead of letting them run wild.

[KB21]

I mean our defense was not what some made it out to be under Arnett. It was not great. He almost cost us the 22 Egg Bowl, he arguably did cost us 22 LSU by spying Daniels with Jett Johnson, and he probably cost us the 21 game at Arkansas by not daring Jefferson to throw it on us instead of letting them run wild.

The further Arnett got from the players he inherited, the worse his defense was going to be.

[BuckyIsAB****]

Our new coach is doing a worse job than the guy we just fired

I know right. Dude lied to an entire group of kids that went thru hell for him and took a 9 win team and ran it in the ditch. Didnt even leave the keys for Lebby to start the car

[BuckyIsAB****]

Arnett was in charge of recruiting on defense and also developing those players on defense. Defense is our biggest issue because we have an FCS caliber DL and players who were never developed under Arnett. Zach Arnett took a team that won 9 games in 2022 and had 16-17 starters returning and burned it to the ground. Jeff Lebby inherited a roster that had one player who started on a 5-win team. Jeff Lebby's offense is miles better than the shit offense Kevin Barbay and his run run run punt philosophy, and that's with a true freshman at QB and new starters at every position.

Zach Arnett should be seen as a pariah by Mississippi State fans. He's the single worst thing that has ever happened to the program.

Arnett was fine till he let some rats in

[BuckyIsAB****]

2 things can be true. The yacht club murdered MS State football and Keenum allowed it. Or let it happen. And Lebby can be a bad hire. It is both. I can go ahead and tell yall that the nepotism is so strong with Lebby and company that its going to
Take the next coach to fix it. We have multiple players missing workouts/practices and nothing is ever done. The culture we had with Mullen died with Moorhead. Leach fixed it then it died when Arnett/BP lied. That is our biggest issue at the moment. Lebby is not firing Hutzler or any of his boys on staff on his own. That?s including the strength and speed coaches. And Selmon is not firing a Lebby. Keenum is not doing shit, but he hasnt done shit since hiring arnett in a panic because he was too busy not doing shit to hire an AD

[BuckyIsAB****]

Arnett was in charge of recruiting on defense and also developing those players on defense. Defense is our biggest issue because we have an FCS caliber DL and players who were never developed under Arnett. Zach Arnett took a team that won 9 games in 2022 and had 16-17 starters returning and burned it to the ground. Jeff Lebby inherited a roster that had one player who started on a 5-win team. Jeff Lebby's offense is miles better than the shit offense Kevin Barbay and his run run run punt philosophy, and that's with a true freshman at QB and new starters at every position.

Zach Arnett should be seen as a pariah by Mississippi State fans. He's the single worst thing that has ever happened to the program.


Arnett is the same coach that stood in front of his team after Kentucky, a game we lost 24-3, and said, "two more wins and my job is safe". Not two more wins and we go to a bowl or two more wins and we can start to build some momentum. Nope. "Two more wins and MY JOB is safe".

This is 100 percent true and the kids quit.

[RockyDog]

Just because the results are 2-10 does not mean Jeff Lebby has done a bad coaching job. These results are a direct reflection of Zach Arnett, his defensive recruiting, his destruction of the offense in one season, and his lack of ability to develop players. Jeff Lebby inherited a complete mess and has to build this up from the ground. Did you honestly think a coach could have come in here with what Lebby inherited and produce a bowl team?

Nope. And I agree with you fully. We have a faction of the fan base that are totally unrealistic and try to lump Lebby in there with Lea and Pittman.

[Saltydog]

Does anyone really think if Arnett had stayed we'd be a damn bit better than we are now? Not saying Lebby was the greatest hire but Arnett was not the answer.

[Goldendawg]

yes and thats why I think Lebby needs a little slack this year.... Now has he done a great job....no.......... but is he the worst coach in our history....NO !!! We have not won as man games as Arnett did but over all we have been much more competitive/competent I think (except toledo)

Sorry Cuz, looking at 2-10 baring an upset against MO, one of the worse teams in my MSU life. Have been going in person since 1963, and the feeling in the stands around me in Section 4 has been no hope of a victory or a competitive "D" on our part in any game except our two wins against pitiful foes. Sure we have little talent, but questionable coaching hires and schemes also has contributed to 2-10, which is Shira/Croom level. I have felt younger at the games as I have felt like I'm watching a good passing team as in the Pharr/Smith/Milner years with no "D" and no hope of victory, a flashback to futility I never thought I wouldsee again in my lifetime! Gotta give Lebby more time, but changes are needed on and off the field.

[KB21]

Sorry Cuz, looking at 2-10 baring a upset against MO, one of the worse teams with questionable staff hires. Have been going in person since 1963, and the feeloing in the stands around me in Section 4 has been no hope of a victory or a competitive "D" on our part in any game ecept our two wins against pitiful foes. Sure we have little talent, but questionable coaching also leads to 2-10, with is Shira/Croom level.

Sorry, but that's a results-oriented view that has no basis in fact. Just because we are a 2 win team does not mean that Jeff Lebby has done a poor job of coaching. He was given crap to work with. He did a great job of finishing out the transitional class. He found some offensive playmakers in the portal. He got the team's QB of the future in the transitional class. He completely changed his approach mid-season, moving away from the push the envelope HUNH offense he is known for. The big thing is that the players have bought in despite the results. Effort isn't an issue with this team on either side of the ball.

The process is good to great. The results will come in time with more talent.

[Coach34]

The offense got better once the original QB got hurt and Lebbo was forced to scale back the O for the freshman. That tells me he was trying to do too much early on aka- bad coaching

[MBDawg601]

Current coach is about to go 2-10 and not fire his lazy excuse for a D coordinator, but give money guys!! We can buy talent that will fix our horrendous coaching hires!!

Us and Vandy are the only 2 teams in the conference that can hire coordinators as first time HCs and claim "we got the right guy, give him time".

What do we need to give him? 10 years? 20 years? When did we become a 17n training grounds for coordinators to give HCn a try? How is this okay? First time AD? We are too good to go poach "up and comer" ADs and HC from g5 schools. People that have actually had to make decisions before. We like to go for guys that are clueless and give them the keys to the program and athletic department.

Don't bother replying to me. I won't argue with any of you that think Lebby is the guy, or that Selmon is the guy. Neither have proven shit, and you're clearly basing your argument off of hope and maroon colored glasses. Nothing this season gives you a reason to argue that they have the slightest clue what they are doing.

[Gutter Cobreh]

What do we need to give him? 10 years? 20 years? When did we become a 17n training grounds for coordinators to give HCn a try? How is this okay? First time AD? We are too good to go poach "up and comer" ADs and HC from g5 schools. People that have actually had to make decisions before. We like to go for guys that are clueless and give them the keys to the program and athletic department.

Don't bother replying to me. I won't argue with any of you that think Lebby is the guy, or that Selmon is the guy. Neither have proven shit, and you're clearly basing your argument off of hope and maroon colored glasses. Nothing this season gives you a reason to argue that they have the slightest clue what they are doing.

Our last AD was hired by Auburn. Not really setting the world on fire there and glad they took him away from us.

The AD before him was hired by Florida. He'll be lucky to keep his job for another year with the hires that have happened under his watch.

Looking across the state, Ole Miss loses Bjork to A&M. Bjork then parlays giving out the worst coaching contract in history into a bigger gig at Ohio State.

In all of these situations, the excuse given is that they're simply a puppet and doing what that boosters want done.

Hiring an AD is a bigger crapshoot than hiring a coach, or in Cohen's case at Auburn hiring a married couple to coach softball...

[BuckyIsAB****]

The offense got better once the original QB got hurt and Lebbo was forced to scale back the O for the freshman. That tells me he was trying to do too much early on aka- bad coaching

This is also true. We supposedly went from carrying about 80 plays to half with Van Buren

[Quaoarsking]

While I'm not very high on Lebby so far, I think it's worth pointing out that 7 of the 16 current head coaches in the SEC were first-time head coaches when they were hired, including the coaches of Georgia and Oklahoma, so it's not just "us and Vandy" who would do it.

[KB21]

The offense got better once the original QB got hurt and Lebbo was forced to scale back the O for the freshman. That tells me he was trying to do too much early on aka- bad coaching

To you, any coach who doesn?t try to run the ball all the time is a bad coach, so I?m not paying attention to anyone whose idea of good offense is to run the ball.

[viverlibre]

Our last AD was hired by Auburn. Not really setting the world on fire there and glad they took him away from us.

The AD before him was hired by Florida. He'll be lucky to keep his job for another year with the hires that have happened under his watch.

Looking across the state, Ole Miss loses Bjork to A&M. Bjork then parlays giving out the worst coaching contract in history into a bigger gig at Ohio State.

In all of these situations, the excuse given is that they're simply a puppet and doing what that boosters want done.

Hiring an AD is a bigger crapshoot than hiring a coach, or in Cohen's case at Auburn hiring a married couple to coach softball...

One thing I like about Bjork is he didn't roll over to the NCAA on the Freezus situation. We'd self reported, cooperated and still gotten the hammer. Look at severe penalties we got for tutor gate, in the grand scheme a very minor situation and we rolled over and got hammered. UNC had a 1,000,000x worse academic scandal, didn't cooperate and received no penalty.

[Matt3467]

I thought Shapen played well for the most part. Shapen just happened to be playing behind our line.

[StarkVegasSteve]

I thought Shapen played well for the most part. Shapen just happened to be playing behind our line.

I thought Shapen's best game may have been in his last. We started utilizing QB run a bit more and it seemed to open a couple of things up. Unfortunately, he gets injured on one of those QB runs.

[BorneDawg]

Sorry Cuz, looking at 2-10 baring an upset against MO, one of the worse teams in my MSU life. Have been going in person since 1963, and the feeling in the stands around me in Section 4 has been no hope of a victory or a competitive "D" on our part in any game except our two wins against pitiful foes. Sure we have little talent, but questionable coaching hires and schemes also has contributed to 2-10, which is Shira/Croom level. I have felt younger at the games as I have felt like I'm watching a good passing team as in the Pharr/Smith/Milner years with no "D" and no hope of victory, a flashback to futility I never thought I wouldsee again in my lifetime! Gotta give Lebby more time, but changes are needed on and off the field.

Cuz, what's your solution then? We can keep firing head coaches every year.... No big time coach will come(not that we could pull one anyways) if we give them one year and boom you're gone! As bad (as many think Leach's coaching style was) he at least demanded effort and discipline from his players.... to me Morehead and Arnett have been the worst hire and Croom is not far behind(at least he beat Bama).... As bad as we have been we have played harder this year as opposed to least year...

[DownwardDawg]

The offense got better once the original QB got hurt and Lebbo was forced to scale back the O for the freshman. That tells me he was trying to do too much early on aka- bad coaching

Sounds a lot like JoMo.

This is one of the worst MSU teams I've ever seen. It's embarrassing to be a State fan right now. Hopefully Lebby figures it out soon. Real soon...

[DownwardDawg]

Our last AD was hired by Auburn. Not really setting the world on fire there and glad they took him away from us.

The AD before him was hired by Florida. He'll be lucky to keep his job for another year with the hires that have happened under his watch.

Looking across the state, Ole Miss loses Bjork to A&M. Bjork then parlays giving out the worst coaching contract in history into a bigger gig at Ohio State.

In all of these situations, the excuse given is that they're simply a puppet and doing what that boosters want done.

Hiring an AD is a bigger crapshoot than hiring a coach, or in Cohen's case at Auburn hiring a married couple to coach softball...

We haven't had an AD since Byrne left.

[StarkVegasSteve]

We haven't had an AD since Byrne left.

Stricklin made some strides in the marketing. He also hired Vic Schaeffer and Ben Howland. Now on the inverse, he hired Rick Ray (although the Stans firing was more his father in law and overzealous boosters doings than his). Scott was a good AD. His worst mistake was somehow being convinced to endorse Cohen for AD.

[Coach34]

To you, any coach who doesn?t try to run the ball all the time is a bad coach, so I?m not paying attention to anyone whose idea of good offense is to run the ball.

There is no truth in your statement at all.

I do believe tho and its proven- that teams that can run the ball have better offenses. It's a must. You cant be one dimensional either way tho. Top 5 scoring SEC offenses:

1. Mississippi (5th rushing)
2. Bama (3rd in rushing)
3. Texas (9th in rushing)
4. Tenn (1st in rushing)
5. A&M (2nd in rushing)

[StarkVegasSteve]

There is no truth in your statement at all.

I do believe tho and its proven- that teams that can run the ball have better offenses. It's a must. You cant be one dimensional either way tho. Top 5 scoring SEC offenses:

1. Mississippi (5th rushing)
2. Bama (3rd in rushing)
3. Texas (9th in rushing)
4. Tenn (1st in rushing)
5. A&M (2nd in rushing)

Heck our run game has been really good the last 7. We're averaging almost 170 yds on the ground in that stretch. Our offense is predicated on being able to run it because it sets up the shots we like to take.

[Goldendawg]

Cuz, what's your solution then? We can keep firing head coaches every year.... No big time coach will come(not that we could pull one anyways) if we give them one year and boom you're gone! As bad (as many think Leach's coaching style was) he at least demanded effort and discipline from his players.... to me Morehead and Arnett have been the worst hire and Croom is not far behind(at least he beat Bama).... As bad as we have been we have played harder this year as opposed to least year...

I never said to fire a coach every year. I said we have to give Lebby more time, but there are problems on and off the field. In my opinion he made questionable choices in hiring his staff, especially the DC (second year in a row a friend was hired by a first HC who had never held the position). I think about any HC hire could have gone 2-10 this year. Success on the field in victories in year two and especially in year three will tell the tale. I am beyond tired of our powers to be over the decades hiring on the job training AD's, HC's & DC's. We learn nothing from mistakes of the past.

[Brobi-wan]

Sorry Cuz, looking at 2-10 baring an upset against MO, one of the worse teams in my MSU life. Have been going in person since 1963, and the feeling in the stands around me in Section 4 has been no hope of a victory or a competitive "D" on our part in any game except our two wins against pitiful foes. Sure we have little talent, but questionable coaching hires and schemes also has contributed to 2-10, which is Shira/Croom level. I have felt younger at the games as I have felt like I'm watching a good passing team as in the Pharr/Smith/Milner years with no "D" and no hope of victory, a flashback to futility I never thought I wouldsee again in my lifetime! Gotta give Lebby more time, but changes are needed on and off the field.

Section 4 is dead as it can get. Also my section.

[Goldendawg]

Sorry, but that's a results-oriented view that has no basis in fact. Just because we are a 2 win team does not mean that Jeff Lebby has done a poor job of coaching. He was given crap to work with. He did a great job of finishing out the transitional class. He found some offensive playmakers in the portal. He got the team's QB of the future in the transitional class. He completely changed his approach mid-season, moving away from the push the envelope HUNH offense he is known for. The big thing is that the players have bought in despite the results. Effort isn't an issue with this team on either side of the ball.

The process is good to great. The results will come in time with more talent.

Every job I have ever had was results driven or at some point you are shown the door. Lebby inherited a dumpster fire and needs and deserves more time as he is our HC, (On the job training as we historically hire). If I had succeeded only 2 of every 12 times in of my three careers, my time there would be short without showing improvement in time needed to win and I wasn't making millions per year. Don't know if you are able to attend games, but there is no hope for very long term season ticket holders in Section 4 for a victory in any home game this year except UMASS especially since the Toledo disaster.

[Quaoarsking]

Cuz, what's your solution then? We can keep firing head coaches every year.... No big time coach will come(not that we could pull one anyways) if we give them one year and boom you're gone! As bad (as many think Leach's coaching style was) he at least demanded effort and discipline from his players.... to me Morehead and Arnett have been the worst hire and Croom is not far behind(at least he beat Bama).... As bad as we have been we have played harder this year as opposed to least year...

The solution is to give Lebby the resources to succeed next year (portal), and if he doesn't make a bowl, fire him and hope the next guy can win.

[Todd4State]

The solution is to give Lebby the resources to succeed next year (portal), and if he doesn't make a bowl, fire him and hope the next guy can win.

I'm sure we'll give him 2025 and 2026 before we can end this nightmare because we have to pretend to show continuity.

[Pancho]

The solution is to give Lebby the resources to succeed next year (portal), and if he doesn't make a bowl, fire him and hope the next guy can win.

Lebby will improve the team next year but I doubt he wins more than 4 or 5.

[MaroonFlounder]

It's hard to not like the way Brady Cook brought that Mizzou team back to win @ Aub, being so banged up. He will get it done again.

41-31 Mixxouri.

[Goldendawg]

If we go 2-10, it will be the first year since 2002 that we have not won a SEC in a season. I dare say about any staff could have beaten only E KY and UMASS this year. Lebby deserves more time, but I have seen no improvement except in the passing game (QB/WR only). Need a real DC asap and perhaps a couple of other position coaches.

[BorneDawg]

If we go 2-10, it will be the first year since 2002 that we have not won a SEC in a season. I dare say about any staff could have beaten only E KY and UMASS this year. Lebby deserves more time, but I have seen no improvement except in the passing game (QB/WR only). Need a real DC asap and perhaps a couple of other position coaches.

I agree about giving him another year with a min of 4-5 wins next year and bowl game in 3rd year.... to do that he will need to replace a couple coaches and use NI money to bring in better players though

[StarkVegasSteve]

I agree about giving him another year with a min of 4-5 wins next year and bowl game in 3rd year.... to do that he will need to replace a couple coaches and use NI money to bring in better players though

The funds are there to bring in better players. We have plenty of that. It's actually very impressive what Charlie and his team have done from that standpoint. It just comes down to executing on the recruiting trail from the coaches.

[SPMT]

The funds are there to bring in better players. We have plenty of that. It's actually very impressive what Charlie and his team have done from that standpoint. It just comes down to executing on the recruiting trail from the coaches.

Well, sounds like they need to produce if the resources are there. We just have no hype around the program like we did with Mullen.

[StarkVegasSteve]

Well, sounds like they need to produce if the resources are there. We just have no hype around the program like we did with Mullen.

Mullen didn't have hype until he beat Ole Miss. We had been outscored 73-24 in the two games prior and most people thought OM was going to dirtroll us. I mean we had been close in a game against LSU and didn't get blown out by Florida. I guess you can call that hype but Mullen didn't have a signature win until the Egg Bowl.

[SPMT]

Mullen didn't have hype until he beat Ole Miss. We had been outscored 73-24 in the two games prior and most people thought OM was going to dirtroll us. I mean we had been close in a game against LSU and didn't get blown out by Florida. I guess you can call that hype but Mullen didn't have a signature win until the Egg Bowl.

******* first year was pretty hype and you could see the potential.

[StarkVegasSteve]

Maybe you saw it. I saw us not get dusted by the teams we usually got dusted by and win the Egg Bowl. We just had come off having nothing for almost a decade and Mullen finally provided hope. I don't think it was hype, it was hope.

[Todd4State]

Mullen didn't have hype until he beat Ole Miss. We had been outscored 73-24 in the two games prior and most people thought OM was going to dirtroll us. I mean we had been close in a game against LSU and didn't get blown out by Florida. I guess you can call that hype but Mullen didn't have a signature win until the Egg Bowl.

This is my recollection as well.