Hadad calling for Hutzler to be fired before tomorrow.

[Op4isabitch]

Can?t say I disagree. It is glorious to hear him say it out loud and in public.

[SPMT]

Can?t say I disagree. It is glorious to hear him say it out loud and in public.



No reason to wait until tomorrow.

[EdwardDrayton]

And whose head rolls for the playcalling and five turnovers??!? *****

[DownwardDawg]

Buying time....

In a few years, selmon, Lebby, all of them will be gone. We will start over once again and hopefully we hire a real AD next time. It starts there.

[Op4isabitch]

Lebby isn’t the problem, this team can score. Is the offense perfect? No but it’s damn good and today we were basically robbed of 2 or 3 TD’s. If we had a D that was more effective than 11 cinder blocks we could have easily won.

Hutzler is THE biggest issue we have followed by not enough defensive talent.

[Matt3467]

Yea we've moved the ball enough to make me feel good about the offensive future. There's nothing we can do that would make our D worse aside just not fielding a defense.

[DownwardDawg]

Lebby isn’t the problem, this team can score. Is the offense perfect? No but it’s damn good and today we were basically robbed of 2 or 3 TD’s. If we had a D that was more effective than 11 cinder blocks we could have easily won.

Hutzler is THE biggest issue we have followed by not enough defensive talent.
I felt ok about Lebby, until today. This team looked extremely poorly coached today.
Watching Vanderbilt play right now and realizing that they are so much better coached than we are.

[msstate7]

From a guy that wants to fire everyone, this wouldn't accomplish a damn thing. Just give the play calling to someone else and fire him after the season.

[BuckyIsAB****]

Buying time....

In a few years, selmon, Lebby, all of them will be gone. We will start over once again and hopefully we hire a real AD next time. It starts there.

Correct

[RockyDog]

I felt ok about Lebby, until today. This team looked extremely poorly coached today.
Watching Vanderbilt play right now and realizing that they are so much better coached than we are.

But you are comparing apples to a pile of crap. Clark Lea is in season 4 and is being co-coached by Kill. His two 2-10,0-8 SEC teams I’m sure were similar to what we are having to look at this season. And hell he lost to Ga State this year.

Lebby is putting up very respectable offensive numbers against a lot of factors.

1. He’s playing with a true freshman that doesn’t know the playbook.
2. He’s having to slow the offense WAY down for reason 1 as well as to keep the putrid defense off the field.
3. The OL still can’t block

[phatdog]

I don't disagree but who the **** is Hadad. Is he that guy that lives in his parents basement in Vicksburg.

[Cooterpoot]

Buying time....

In a few years, selmon, Lebby, all of them will be gone. We will start over once again and hopefully we hire a real AD next time. It starts there.

Nah, Selmon ain't the problem

[RockyDog]

Nah, Selmon ain't the problem

Correct. I’d like to know what this future “real” AD is gonna do that Selmon isn’t doing.

[Coursesuper]

I don't disagree but who the **** is Hadad. Is he that guy that lives in his parents basement in Vicksburg.

Internet pseudo hero turned fan writer.

[MetEdDawg]

I still don't get the Lebby hate by some. It's clear by now he can coach by the way the offense plays.

The defense is so far beyond help that you can't possibly expect him to get much out of them. The staff isn't great and that's a knock. But the talent on that side of the ball is the worst in the conference and it's not even close. I don't know what Lebby is supposed to do to overcome that.

That side of the ball needs some help in a lot of areas. But the offense with 3 true freshmen starters (Van Buren, Work, Craver) is very competitive against good teams. And that wasn't the case at all last year.

And I'm not sure why Selmon keeps getting brought up. I think he's done a great job doing the one big thing we needed, and that was find ways to bring in more money. He's done that.

[Bothrops]

Lebby was a great hire. Yes he's green, but has the offense we wanted. Anybody that wants him fired is nuts. However, it doesn't mean he'll be successful here. Getting players everywhere is a real ****ing problem

[EdwardDrayton]

Lebby was a great hire. Yes he's green, but has the offense we wanted. Anybody that wants him fired is nuts. However, it doesn't mean he'll be successful here. Getting players everywhere is a real ****ing problem

Respectfully ........... 1-7. This season has been an abject failure. Can Lebby fix it?!?? We shall see.

[Ranchdawg]

And I'm not sure why Selmon keeps getting brought up. I think he's done a great job doing the one big thing we needed, and that was find ways to bring in more money. He's done that.

Ok if this is true then why are so many saying we don’t have the money to get the top shelf players we so badly need? If Selmon is such money generator then why do we have this mess on the field that we all see this season. Also why is Selmon not out in public begging the common fans, you know the ones that actually contribute to the Bulldog club, buy the tickets, show up and attempt to make a home field advantage? Also begging fans not to give up on the program. Because each game (I’ve attended all home games except one) this season and each weekend it’s less and less in attendance.

[Brobi-wan]

I still don't get the Lebby hate by some. It's clear by now he can coach by the way the offense plays.

The defense is so far beyond help that you can't possibly expect him to get much out of them. The staff isn't great and that's a knock. But the talent on that side of the ball is the worst in the conference and it's not even close. I don't know what Lebby is supposed to do to overcome that.

That side of the ball needs some help in a lot of areas. But the offense with 3 true freshmen starters (Van Buren, Work, Craver) is very competitive against good teams. And that wasn't the case at all last year.

And I'm not sure why Selmon keeps getting brought up. I think he's done a great job doing the one big thing we needed, and that was find ways to bring in more money. He's done that.

You’re right. Everybody is just pissed about getting blown off the field by a coach who has bigger tits than most of our wives/girlfriends have.

[DownwardDawg]

And I'm not sure why Selmon keeps getting brought up. I think he's done a great job doing the one big thing we needed, and that was find ways to bring in more money. He's done that.

Ok if this is true then why are so many saying we don’t have the money to get the top shelf players we so badly need? If Selmon is such money generator then why do we have this mess on the field that we all see this season. Also why is Selmon not out in public begging the common fans, you know the ones that actually contribute to the Bulldog club, buy the tickets, show up and attempt to make a home field advantage? Also begging fans not to give up on the program. Because each game (I’ve attended all home games except one) this season and each weekend it’s less and less in attendance.

Great post.

[was21]

I don't disagree but who the **** is Hadad. Is he that guy that lives in his parents basement in Vicksburg.

I know his parents as well as his grandfather...neither of whom had or has a basement. They live or lived too high in the Walnut Hills to need a basement.

[TheLostDawg]

From a guy that wants to fire everyone, this wouldn't accomplish a damn thing. Just give the play calling to someone else and fire him after the season.

You do something now to try and see if someone else can get more. He's recruiting for us so if he leaves at the end, we lose the connection. Do it now we can hopefully hold on to our momentum with his replacement. That and the recruits know we're not settling for this crap we're letting take place on the field now

[TheLostDawg]

And yes we're weak on defense but we're not getting the most out of all those guys. I've never seen so many dropped interceptions and missed tackles. I can understand being out of positions but we're not doing the fundamentals right. Our wr can tackle better than our cb

[Bothrops]

And yes we're weak on defense but we're not getting the most out of all those guys. I've never seen so many dropped interceptions and missed tackles. I can understand being out of positions but we're not doing the fundamentals right. Our wr can tackle better than our cb

It's blatantly obvious that our DL guys are overmatched every week regardless of opponent. I do think it's strange that no one ever seems to be emerging from the younger ranks. Kai McClendon looks to have potential but that's it.

Dropped interceptions means that someone was at least in the right position to make a play. When was the last time we had a secondary of note? They've been so few and far between in our history, it's ok to say it's not something we've done well, very often.

[Maroonthirteen]

Can?t say I disagree. It is glorious to hear him say it out loud and in public.

Where did Hadad publicly say this?

I listened to Lebby's post game presser and heard many questions about the defense but none sounded like Hadad and none asked the question directly.

I saw and heard on his youtube recap, where Robbie (who thinks he speaks for all fans) is giving Lebby an ultimatum. WHich I think is pretty shitty for many reasons.

[Op4isabitch]

Where did Hadad publicly say this?

I listened to Lebby's post game presser and heard many questions about the defense but none sounded like Hadad and none asked the question directly.

I saw and heard on his youtube recap, where Robbie (who thinks he speaks for all fans) is giving Lebby an ultimatum. WHich I think is pretty shitty for many reasons.

On thunder and lightning. Go listen, he states it several times from the very top of the show. Literally within the first minute of the show.

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/thunder-lightning/id1422812354?i=1000674572015

[Maroonthirteen]

On thunder and lightning. Go listen, he states it several times from the very top of the show. Literally within the first minute of the show.

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/thunder-lightning/id1422812354?i=1000674572015


Nah. I am not listening to them. Besides he said weeks ago, "no path forward....." regarding Hutzler.


Hutzler may be fired tomorrow. I don't know. However, if he isn't, we are almost to November and signing day is early December. Hadad has been saying for weeks......"no path forward..." If Hutzler is around next week, Hadad just needs STFU for recruiting reasons.

I am not saying keep or fire Hutzler. I am saying the decision isn't the fans or a couple of message board fan boys turned journalist. It is Lebby's decision and at some point we have to support that decision to move forward and get better. Him and Robbie saying Lebby has to do this or that because the fans want it.....is message board bullshit.

[Op4isabitch]

Nah. I am not listening to them. Besides he said weeks ago, "no path forward....." regarding Hutzler.


Hutzler may be fired tomorrow. I don't know. However, if he isn't, we are almost to November and signing day is early December. Hadad has been saying for weeks......"no path forward..." If Hutzler is around next week, Hadad just needs STFU for recruiting reasons.

I am not saying keep or fire Hutzler. I am saying the decision isn't the fans or a couple of message board fan boys turned journalist. It is Lebby's decision and at some point we have to support that decision to move forward and get better. Him and Robbie saying Lebby has to do this or that because the fans want it.....is message board bullshit.


You asked where Hadad said it, I posted the link because I thought that’s what you wanted.

So you think recruits are going to want to play for Hutzler? Please give me some of what your smoking.

[basedog]

Nah. I am not listening to them. Besides he said weeks ago, "no path forward....." regarding Hutzler.


Hutzler may be fired tomorrow. I don't know. However, if he isn't, we are almost to November and signing day is early December. Hadad has been saying for weeks......"no path forward..." If Hutzler is around next week, Hadad just needs STFU for recruiting reasons.

I am not saying keep or fire Hutzler. I am saying the decision isn't the fans or a couple of message board fan boys turned journalist. It is Lebby's decision and at some point we have to support that decision to move forward and get better. Him and Robbie saying Lebby has to do this or that because the fans want it.....is message board bullshit.

I agree about who makes the decision, we need to wait and see what adjustments Lebby can or will make. We are a total mess on defense right now, we you like "Sec talent" there is no "coaching" them up. It's pretty obvious our schemes could be some of the problems but again you need some talent. Leach and Arnett are way more responsible at this point than Lebby or Hutzler. I don't like watching this mess, but nothing can be done right now or today.

[Offshore Dawg]

Nah. I am not listening to them. Besides he said weeks ago, "no path forward....." regarding Hutzler.


Hutzler may be fired tomorrow. I don't know. However, if he isn't, we are almost to November and signing day is early December. Hadad has been saying for weeks......"no path forward..." If Hutzler is around next week, Hadad just needs STFU for recruiting reasons.

I am not saying keep or fire Hutzler. I am saying the decision isn't the fans or a couple of message board fan boys turned journalist. It is Lebby's decision and at some point we have to support that decision to move forward and get better. Him and Robbie saying Lebby has to do this or that because the fans want it.....is message board bullshit.

I thought they were doing away with the national letter of intent and replacing it with something else.

[Maroonthirteen]

You asked where Hadad said it, I posted the link because I thought that’s what you wanted.

So you think recruits are going to want to play for Hutzler? Please give me some of what your smoking.

I appreciate the link. I assumed "publicly calling for.." meant in a more formal setting than a podcast.

No, recruits that can turn this around immediately, won't sign regardless of the DC. However, I think our football program has had so much turnover the last 3 years, at some point, you have to stick with your decisions and ride it out.

Now, if Lebby and Selmon are working the back channels, putting out feelers and they think they can hire an experience DC ......by all means make the move.

[Maroonthirteen]

I thought they were doing away with the national letter of intent and replacing it with something else.

There is no LOI now but there is a signing day. You can best believe the SEC schools will be locking the best talent in, as soon as they can with something....even it is as simple as tweet without anything legally binding.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tI3x6XpmLxY

[Pancho]

seems more msu fans wised up and sold they tickets to hog fans yesterday.........

[smootness]

I will never understand why we think every AD we have ever had is awful.

[Todd4State]

Where did Hadad publicly say this?

I listened to Lebby's post game presser and heard many questions about the defense but none sounded like Hadad and none asked the question directly.

I saw and heard on his youtube recap, where Robbie (who thinks he speaks for all fans) is giving Lebby an ultimatum. WHich I think is pretty shitty for many reasons.

No one likes to pretend that they have more power at MSU than Robbie Faulk.

The funny thing is if anyone is close to getting an ultimatum from MSU it would be him. Of course he'll just go complain about lack of access or some crap.

I mean does it really matter if we fire Hutzler now or after the Egg Bowl at this point? We're not going to even hire anyone until December at the earliest anyway and even then it's probably going to go into January.

[Cowbell]

No one likes to pretend that they have more power at MSU than Robbie Faulk.

The funny thing is if anyone is close to getting an ultimatum from MSU it would be him. Of course he'll just go complain about lack of access or some crap.

I mean does it really matter if we fire Hutzler now or after the Egg Bowl at this point? We're not going to even hire anyone until December at the earliest anyway and even then it's probably going to go into January.

It lets fans know we're going a different direction. And we need to. There were so many players out of position yesterday. It wasn't even funny.

[Todd4State]

It lets fans know we're going a different direction. And we need to. There were so many players out of position yesterday. It wasn't even funny.

At the same time not firing Hutzler now doesn't mean we aren't going in a different direction at the end of the year either.

When the radio guys are calling out Hutzler and you have people saying that he won't be the DC next year then it's not hard to figure out what is going to happen.

[DownwardDawg]

I will never understand why we think every AD we have ever had is awful.

Byrne was outstanding. We have weak leadership at the top. Cohen was a terrible AD.
Selmon......jury is still out on him. We have a large Selmon fanboy group for some reason. Hopefully he'll turn out to be great, but he is mostly invisible. He certainly doesn't lead from the front like top leaders do. And he hired his "buddy" as head coach (whom I support), but it was certainly a lazy hire.

I support lebby and have like what I saw the past 3 weeks. But the start of the season and yesterday screams poorly coached team. If Lebby fails, Selmon needs to be shown the door with him.

[Cowbell]

At the same time not firing Hutzler now doesn't mean we aren't going in a different direction at the end of the year either.

When the radio guys are calling out Hutzler and you have people saying that he won't be the DC next year then it's not hard to figure out what is going to happen.

Yeah but lame ducks are never a good thing. Looks like Lebby agrees.

[DownwardDawg]

Yeah but lame ducks are never a good thing. Looks like Lebby agrees.

I think a good and experienced DC can really turn things around for Lebby. Hopefully he's working that already.

[DEDawg]

Byrne was outstanding. We have weak leadership at the top. Cohen was a terrible AD.
Selmon......jury is still out on him. We have a large Selmon fanboy group for some reason. Hopefully he'll turn out to be great, but he is mostly invisible. He certainly doesn't lead from the front like top leaders do. And he hired his "buddy" as head coach (whom I support), but it was certainly a lazy hire.

I support lebby and have like what I saw the past 3 weeks. But the start of the season and yesterday screams poorly coached team. If Lebby fails, Selmon needs to be shown the door with him.
What about Lebby hire was lazy? By all means we interviewed all qualified candidates we had interest in, some were not interested, and we ended up with Lebby. Not sure why that would be considered lazy

And the reason there is a large Selmon supporter group is because he is actually doing what needs to get done, which is NIL, even tho a big majority of our fan base is old school and can?t get out of their own way

[Maverick91]

But you are comparing apples to a pile of crap. Clark Lea is in season 4 and is being co-coached by Kill. His two 2-10,0-8 SEC teams I?m sure were similar to what we are having to look at this season. And hell he lost to Ga State this year.

Lebby is putting up very respectable offensive numbers against a lot of factors.

1. He?s playing with a true freshman that doesn?t know the playbook.
2. He?s having to slow the offense WAY down for reason 1 as well as to keep the putrid defense off the field.
3. The OL still can?t block

I hate reason number two. Clearly the defense just sucks, I would rather Lebby drop a can of nitro's oxide in the offense and tell huntz just to try and keep up. Score, score, score. Make the other team try and keep up with you. Will it work ? Idk. But dang probably will be more fun to watch than what we are watching.

[Really Clark?]

What about Lebby hire was lazy? By all means we interviewed all qualified candidates we had interest in, some were not interested, and we ended up with Lebby. Not sure why that would be considered lazy

And the reason there is a large Selmon supporter group is because he is actually doing what needs to get done, which is NIL, even tho a big majority of our fan base is old school and can?t get out of their own way

This is correct. We went to several sitting head coaches before Lebby. Elko and Caldwell had more than 1 conversation with us. Campbell (who I was told would not that great of a get) we reached out to and had a conversation. It comes down to your best candidate that you can actually hire.

[DownwardDawg]

This is correct. We went to several sitting head coaches before Lebby. Elko and Caldwell had more than 1 conversation with us. Campbell (who I was told would not that great of a get) we reached out to and had a conversation. It comes down to your best candidate that you can actually hire.

Hopefully it turns out to be a great hire. And I hope we really did reach out to some sitting HC's, but most of us will never know if we really did or not.

If I have to explain why it's viewed as a lazy hire to some posters, then never mind, they won't understand.
I'm in a leadership position in a very large company. I hired a friend once for a management position. It will always be viewed as a lazy hire because I went with the guy that I had a relationship with and was comfortable with. 10 years later, he's still crushing it but to some, it was a lazy hire.
This is why I say the verdict is still out on Selmon. Time will tell.

[DEDawg]

Hopefully it turns out to be a great hire. And I hope we really did reach out to some sitting HC's, but most of us will never know if we really did or not.

If I have to explain why it's viewed as a lazy hire to some posters, then never mind, they won't understand.
I'm in a leadership position in a very large company. I hired a friend once for a management position. It will always be viewed as a lazy hire because I went with the guy that I had a relationship with and was comfortable with. 10 years later, he's still crushing it but to some, it was a lazy hire.
This is why I say the verdict is still out on Selmon. Time will tell.

But this is wrong. We know we did, it?s confirmed this isn?t message board speculation. Also to your example, makes no sense. Then you should know more than others that it isnt a lazy hire if what you say is true.

[DownwardDawg]

But this is wrong. We know we did, it?s confirmed this isn?t message board speculation. Also to your example, makes no sense. Then you should know more than others that it isnt a lazy hire if what you say is true.

I don't have the inside information that you do obviously. I have no idea who we reached out to other than what I read on this message board. I believe about 20% of what I read here.

When I hired my "friend", he was the first and only candidate that I supported. So some in our organization thought it was lazy. I didn't care. I knew what I was doing and that's why I'm in my position.

Selmon hiring Lebby has that same look, whether it's warranted or not.

I like Lebby. I hope he's the best we've ever had.
I'm 50/50 on selmon so far.

[HoopsDawg]

Byrne was outstanding. We have weak leadership at the top. Cohen was a terrible AD.
Selmon......jury is still out on him. We have a large Selmon fanboy group for some reason. Hopefully he'll turn out to be great, but he is mostly invisible. He certainly doesn't lead from the front like top leaders do. And he hired his "buddy" as head coach (whom I support), but it was certainly a lazy hire.

I support lebby and have like what I saw the past 3 weeks. But the start of the season and yesterday screams poorly coached team. If Lebby fails, Selmon needs to be shown the door with him.

And even Byrne f'ed up the Hump. Killed the atmosphere for a few bucks.

[Leeshouldveflanked]

Respectfully ........... 1-7. This season has been an abject failure. Can Lebby fix it?!?? We shall see.

This team wouldnt be much better if Saban was the coach. The last four years completely drained it of talent.

[Lord McBuckethead]

And whose head rolls for the playcalling and five turnovers??!? *****

No ones because you have to call the game required to win, and considering our defense has forced maybe 10 punts all season, how the 17 do you call an offensive game when you have to overcome a bad defensive line, linebackers that cannot make tackles, and defensive backs that cannot cover anyone? You go for it on 4th down.

[Todd4State]

Yeah but lame ducks are never a good thing. Looks like Lebby agrees.

Haven't seen where there is a press conference tomorrow. Where are you seeing that he is going to be fired tomorrow?

[CaptainObvious]

This is correct. We went to several sitting head coaches before Lebby. Elko and Caldwell had more than 1 conversation with us. Campbell (who I was told would not that great of a get) we reached out to and had a conversation. It comes down to your best candidate that you can actually hire.

I don't believe you on Elko. No way the guy that has A&M primed to win the SEC gave Zack Selmon or Mark Keenum time enough on the phone to even ask! Now maybe they asked him for a OC to refer since that is our Admin only way to hire a football coach!

[Really Clark?]

I don't believe you on Elko. No way the guy that has A&M primed to win the SEC gave Zack Selmon or Mark Keenum time enough on the phone to even ask! Now maybe they asked him for a OC to refer since that is our Admin only way to hire a football coach!

We did talk to Elko and more than 1 conversation. Remember A&M was going in another direction with Stoops and he pulled out after taking the job.

[maroonmania]

Lebby isn?t the problem, this team can score. Is the offense perfect? No but it?s damn good and today we were basically robbed of 2 or 3 TD?s. If we had a D that was more effective than 11 cinder blocks we could have easily won.

Hutzler is THE biggest issue we have followed by not enough defensive talent.

Uh, Lebby hired Hutzler unless someone made him hire him under duress. Maybe Lebby understands little about what goes into being a good SEC DC but it made little sense when he first hired Hutzler and makes even less sense now seeing the defensive product being put on the field. We all knew our defense would be the weak link on this team but I don't think any of us thought it would be anywhere close to as bad as it currently is.

[Goldendawg]

Our "D" talent is bad, but no way worse in the country bad in most all categories where stats are kept. For the second year in a row we have hired a coordinator that has never been a "HC", who hired a buddy who had never been a "DC" and yet we expect success on the field. We at State seldom ever learn from our coaching hires of the past, ever one year removed! BTW, I know now why our "O" looked so good in the Spring Game! Not Hail State! right now, but H_LL State? right now. Who is in charge of the clown show of putting together a staff and the evaluation and signing of none SEC portal talent except two WR's? We have a TE from that football powerhouse of London, England who entered the portal twice in the same year, had to sit out a year and still doesn't know you can't throw the ball into the stands after you think you scored a TD and don't get me started on our portal OL and DL. Worst team I have personally watched in 61 years of attendance! Maybe the worse staff of assistants since the Shira years or Jackie's last staff of washed up ex-HC's. I think his DC went to HC at Muscle Shoals HS the next year. This is historically inept, even for us. We and KY are now the Washington General of the SEC. We have one SEC win in the last two years and they have 2, a joke!

[BankerDog]

It lets fans know we're going a different direction. And we need to. There were so many players out of position yesterday. It wasn't even funny.

Like the three who were right at the QB on the first TD when he juked everyone out? Kinda hard to have guys in position when your DL coach hasn?t recruited and continues to try to play gap contain. Said DL coach we just had to have back because fans thought he developed Cox and Jones? Little do people know one of the reasons we kept Simmons was by letting Turner go to A&M and hiring Baker.

Turner?s DL didn?t produce at A&M and not at Florida. Of course we had it be good ole boys and go hire him.

[BankerDog]

Byrne was outstanding. We have weak leadership at the top. Cohen was a terrible AD.
Selmon......jury is still out on him. We have a large Selmon fanboy group for some reason. Hopefully he'll turn out to be great, but he is mostly invisible. He certainly doesn't lead from the front like top leaders do. And he hired his "buddy" as head coach (whom I support), but it was certainly a lazy hire.

I support lebby and have like what I saw the past 3 weeks. But the start of the season and yesterday screams poorly coached team. If Lebby fails, Selmon needs to be shown the door with him.

Jesus just stop. The other buddy was Shane Beamer who people wanted. You don?t know who told us no, etc. Some of you guys still have no clue how this stuff works

[Dawgology]

Jesus just stop. The other buddy was Shane Beamer who people wanted. You don?t know who told us no, etc. Some of you guys still have no clue how this stuff works

Who all told us no? I’m legitimately interested because you hear so many rumors.

[DownwardDawg]

Jesus just stop. The other buddy was Shane Beamer who people wanted. You don?t know who told us no, etc. Some of you guys still have no clue how this stuff works

I guess you didn't read the rest of my posts. You emotional folks get riled up easily. Relax, it's a message board and some of us like to actually discuss stuff.