Quick reminder on how to win at MSU

[HoopsDawg]

Physical football and mobile QB.

Nice job Vandy.

[DownwardDawg]

Yep

[R2Dawg]

Physical football and mobile QB.

Nice job Vandy.

Yep that is the formula but since that worked in the past 50 years everytime MSU has won, we can't do that now because we got to adapt to the times, you know****.

That formula always works at any time. Football hasn't changed. Some things work because they are correct. Have nothing to do with how old you are or how progressive you are. Jackie, Bellard, Mullen all understood the game is won and lost on LOS. Get a mobile QB and you can do things. One thing I've learned in life is the truest things never change.

We see it every week too that the biggest NIL don't win you games either. Spend in the right areas on the right players, and good coaching. The right players is more than just size or 40 speed but right attitude, leadership, heart, good character all matter a lot.

Vandy turned it around in one season, don't tell me MSU can't.

[Offshore Dawg]

That would be nice, but State fans and administration seen to always pull in different directions.

[Santiago]

Physical football and mobile QB.

Nice job Vandy.

Isn't that the secret to success for any football team, regardless of offense?
What stops us right now from having a physical defense?

And I saw Vandy throw it on a 4th down and short, taking a gamble , and hitting a WR for a TD. That crazy forward pass again.

[coastratdog]

Vandy turned it around in one season, don't tell me MSU can't

This is his 4th year at Vandy and has an overall losing record. He is building a program through the portal with kids that have bought into his coaching philosophy. NIL can work if you look at it as a program building tool not a quick fix. I don?t know if Lebby is the guy but he deserves some time to prove it.

[defiantdog]

Vandy lost to Georgia State, they went 2-10 last year, and run the wishbone. This is an example of simply one team wanting it more. They did a good job exposing Milroe and Bama's man to man defense. But I won't give them as much credit as yall until they finish the season in a bowl game.

[Apoplectic]

Vandy lost to Georgia State, they went 2-10 last year, and run the wishbone. This is an example of simply one team wanting it more. They did a good job exposing Milroe and Bama's man to man defense. But I won't give them as much credit as yall until they finish the season in a bowl game.

could we beat vandy?

[DEDawg]

could we beat vandy?

I think it would be 6-4 them if we played 10 times. We seem to be improving even tho we lost our starting QB

[Cooterpoot]

Football will always be won on the lines of scrimmage & ours suck! It doesn't matter if you run it or throw it, you've got to block it. If you can't control things upfront on defense, that back end doesn't matter much.

[RockyDog]

Yep that is the formula but since that worked in the past 50 years everytime MSU has won, we can't do that now because we got to adapt to the times, you know****.

That formula always works at any time. Football hasn't changed. Some things work because they are correct. Have nothing to do with how old you are or how progressive you are. Jackie, Bellard, Mullen all understood the game is won and lost on LOS. Get a mobile QB and you can do things. One thing I've learned in life is the truest things never change.

We see it every week too that the biggest NIL don't win you games either. Spend in the right areas on the right players, and good coaching. The right players is more than just size or 40 speed but right attitude, leadership, heart, good character all matter a lot.

Vandy turned it around in one season, don't tell me MSU can't.

We’ve had 2 mobile QBs in our history. How exactly did we move away from it? One is in the NFL and the other graduated after setting the rushing record. Rushing is all well and good but you can’t afford to NOT be able to pass the ball, which has been most of our history.

Do you really want to be like Iowa or Michigan where your QB is 11/20 for 85 yards every week? That doesn’t cut it in the SEC especially since we don’t have 4-5 star talent on the lines.

Lebby’s system is a good one if people will be patient for more than one season and let it work. It’s a good blend of run and pass and has worked at multiple places. But he’s trying to run it with band-aids and poop talent that he inherited from a couple of lazy ass coaching staffs that preceded him.

[MoreCowbell]

Yep that is the formula but since that worked in the past 50 years everytime MSU has won, we can't do that now because we got to adapt to the times, you know****.

That formula always works at any time. Football hasn't changed. Some things work because they are correct. Have nothing to do with how old you are or how progressive you are. Jackie, Bellard, Mullen all understood the game is won and lost on LOS. Get a mobile QB and you can do things. One thing I've learned in life is the truest things never change.

We see it every week too that the biggest NIL don't win you games either. Spend in the right areas on the right players, and good coaching. The right players is more than just size or 40 speed but right attitude, leadership, heart, good character all matter a lot.

Vandy turned it around in one season, don't tell me MSU can't.

He went 2-10 his first 2 seasons

[R2Dawg]

He went 2-10 his first 2 seasons

I didn't say coach was only there one year, but they did turn around in a year.

[R2Dawg]

We’ve had 2 mobile QBs in our history. How exactly did we move away from it? One is in the NFL and the other graduated after setting the rushing record. Rushing is all well and good but you can’t afford to NOT be able to pass the ball, which has been most of our history.

Do you really want to be like Iowa or Michigan where your QB is 11/20 for 85 yards every week? That doesn’t cut it in the SEC especially since we don’t have 4-5 star talent on the lines.

Lebby’s system is a good one if people will be patient for more than one season and let it work. It’s a good blend of run and pass and has worked at multiple places. But he’s trying to run it with band-aids and poop talent that he inherited from a couple of lazy ass coaching staffs that preceded him.

You must be a young pup. We've had John Bond, Don Smith, Sleepy Robinson, etc. Yes that was a different era but today O is built around mobile QB to counter how fast Ds are. We moved away from it when we forced Keyton Thompson to transfer and Shrader to WR. Dumb moves, then came Leach, Will and AR to finish us off.

I have said on multiple post, Lebby needs and will get 3 years. I've also said many times, the foundation still has to be top HS talent that have the heart to be at MSU. That works and has always worked.

[R2Dawg]

Football will always be won on the lines of scrimmage & ours suck! It doesn't matter if you run it or throw it, you've got to block it. If you can't control things upfront on defense, that back end doesn't matter much.

Yep and we quit worrying about LOS with the AR on both sides of the ball. Game over.

[RockyDog]

You must be a young pup. We've had John Bond, Don Smith, Sleepy Robinson, etc. Yes that was a different era but today O is built around mobile QB to counter how fast Ds are. We moved away from it when we forced Keyton Thompson to transfer and Shrader to WR. Dumb moves, then came Leach, Will and AR to finish us off.

I have said on multiple post, Lebby needs and will get 3 years. I've also said many times, the foundation still has to be top HS talent that have the heart to be at MSU. That works and has always worked.

No, I’m 50. But talking about anything pre-1992 is about pointless.

[Really Clark?]

No, I’m 50. But talking about anything pre-1992 is about pointless.

You are moving the goal post. You said we had 2 mobile QB's in our history...that's completely incorrect. But even if you allow for your modification that nothing pre-1992 is relevant, we had 3 prolific mobile QB's under Mullen. Relf, Dak and Fitzgerald (1 year with Moorehead).

[parabrave]

You are moving the goal post. You said we had 2 mobile QB's in our history...that's completely incorrect. But even if you allow for your modification that nothing pre-1992 is relevant, we had 3 prolific mobile QB's under Mullen. Relf, Dak and Fitzgerald (1 year with Moorehead).

In the early 70s we had a record setting passing QBs in Reed and Pharr and some dam good receivers in Davis Smith and Sammy Milner. We sucked until Tyler came in and established the veer with Rocky.

[parabrave]

You must be a young pup. We've had John Bond, Don Smith, Sleepy Robinson, etc. Yes that was a different era but today O is built around mobile QB to counter how fast Ds are. We moved away from it when we forced Keyton Thompson to transfer and Shrader to WR. Dumb moves, then came Leach, Will and AR to finish us off.

I have said on multiple post, Lebby needs and will get 3 years. I've also said many times, the foundation still has to be top HS talent that have the heart to be at MSU. That works and has always worked.

Oh just to think if Sleepy never got hurt.

[Coach34]

Oh just to think if Sleepy never got hurt.

in the 4th Q of a blowout win over Fla. Turned a 9/10 win team into a 6-5 team

[Coach34]

It's not hard to win in college.

Get a mobile QB that can throw decently
Recruit the trenches like a madman
Make sure to have 1 top notch WR
Get the best LB's and CB's you can

[Todd4State]

Cooter is right. You have to be physical on both LOS to win. It doesn't matter if you throw it 60 times or run it 60 times a game. We were physical when Leach was here too. And again- we won 9 games his last season at MSU. Including several wins over teams that played a "physical" style of football running the Air Raid. The fact that Mike Leach's teams weren't physical was a misconception. Yesterday Vandy's best offensive lineman was a former MSU o-lineman who played under Mike Leach in Stephen Lasoya.

The other thing about mobile QB's- Nick, Sleepy, John Bond, and etc. were great QB's for us but I don't think any of those three passed well enough for us to succeed at a high level in the SEC- meaning winning beyond 6-8 games. At the same time Will's lack of mobility and his lack of a gunslinger mentality at times hurt us as well on the opposite side of the spectrum. I think you have to have a QB that can pass first, pass accurately, and also be mobile and make plays with his legs. The game has evolved a lot especially the passing game and I do think that Bond and Sleepy would have been developed into better passers if they did play today. But 1980 John Bond and 1991 Sleepy would not succeed in today's game. Vandy's QB had I think like an 80% completion percentage yesterday or something ridiculous like that plus made some plays with his legs?

Our issue isn't scheme. Lebby's offense is pretty balanced as it is. I think he has done a good job of getting points out of this group.

Really what that Vandy win signals to me and the rest of the SEC is parity is back in the SEC. Mostly because of the portal, NIL, and Saban leaving. So, it's a matter of adding talent through as many avenues as possible. Think back to the Sherrill era- there was a lot of parity in the mid to late 1990's and really up until Saban took over at Alabama and got them back to Bear Bryant levels in 2008. There were several teams that won SEC and National Championships in the 1990's and that's when we won the West. We actually got to a point where we were beating Alabama and Auburn pretty consistently and it wasn't uncommon for us to beat anyone in the SEC- big wins over Florida in 92 and 2000, Tennessee 94, Arkansas in 92, 94, and 98, and LSU in 91 and 99. We also won the Egg Bowl pretty consistently as well and Ole Miss was pretty good a lot of those years too. Heck- Croom even beat Bama a couple of times. I think the SEC is getting back to the kind of parity it used to have where anyone can beat anyone on any given day. And that is a VERY good thing for us. Want to stop losing guys like Dear and Cunningham to Bama? Them losing 2-3 games a year helps us.

And it's not just Alabama- look around the SEC at the scores. Even MSU- when we played Florda we had a chance in that game. It wasn't like we were blown out. Texas beat us pretty bad but we were presentable. Ole Miss lost to Kentucky. Georgia lost to Alabama. Tennessee lost to Arkansas.

[parabrave]

in the 4th Q of a blowout win over Fla. Turned a 9/10 win team into a 6-5 team

Yep saw it happen just a freak injury when he was trying to make a cut.

[Hot Rock]

I didn't say coach was only there one year, but they did turn around in a year.

no, no he didn't. It took him years to turn it around. You need to let that horse die. He has been there years.

[AROB44]

One of the best, if not the best, mobile QBs in our history was Rocky Felker...

[tcdog70]

We?ve had 2 mobile QBs in our history. How exactly did we move away from it? One is in the NFL and the other graduated after setting the rushing record. Rushing is all well and good but you can?t afford to NOT be able to pass the ball, which has been most of our history.

Do you really want to be like Iowa or Michigan where your QB is 11/20 for 85 yards every week? That doesn?t cut it in the SEC especially since we don?t have 4-5 star talent on the lines.

Lebby?s system is a good one if people will be patient for more than one season and let it work. It?s a good blend of run and pass and has worked at multiple places. But he?s trying to run it with band-aids and poop talent that he inherited from a couple of lazy ass coaching staffs that preceded him.

the reason Fitz had problems passing is because He had shitty WRs. Everygame he had wideouts drop passes. Cost us the Fla game. When he was a Soph he led the SEC in Total offense---He had Fred Roos and Bear (I think).

[StarkVegasSteve]

Vandy turned it around in one season, don't tell me MSU can't

This is his 4th year at Vandy and has an overall losing record. He is building a program through the portal with kids that have bought into his coaching philosophy. NIL can work if you look at it as a program building tool not a quick fix. I don?t know if Lebby is the guy but he deserves some time to prove it.

He's winning because of Jerry Kill. They are better because of one man. That man brought Diego Paivia with him and make no mistake, Clark Lea may have the HC title and Tim Beck may have the OC title, but Kill is running the show. Hell Beck is the OC and they're running Kill's offense from NMSU.

[StarkVegasSteve]

the reason Fitz had problems passing is because He had shitty WRs. Everygame he had wideouts drop passes. Cost us the Fla game. When he was a Soph he led the SEC in Total offense---He had Fred Roos and Bear (I think).

It was Ross and Donald Gray. They were a pretty good receiving duo, it also helped that we had a crappy defense and had to throw to stay in games. But, like most have mentioned regarding LOS, we had a good O Line. Hevesy never fielded a bad one.

[parabrave]

the reason Fitz had problems passing is because He had shitty WRs. Everygame he had wideouts drop passes. Cost us the Fla game. When he was a Soph he led the SEC in Total offense---He had Fred Roos and Bear (I think).

Bear was gone Daks senior year.

[StarkVegasSteve]

Bear was gone Daks senior year.

Bear left the same year as Dak. Only reason I remember it was Dak's final game was in Charlotte for the Belk Bowl and I saw De'Runnya out that night with an agent. He was on the plane sitting first class the next day on the way back and most of the State fans on that flight were talking amongst ourselves saying he was making a MASSIVE mistake.

[R2Dawg]

no, no he didn't. It took him years to turn it around. You need to let that horse die. He has been there years.

Dang people, reading comprehension 101. I never said coach was there one year. BUT Vandy did in one year go from not good to good.

Yall can argue about when that actually started. There is no one exactly right on that but the on the field argument is fact. This year is when it showed up on the field. That is all I said.

[RockyDog]

Dang people, reading comprehension 101. I never said coach was there one year. BUT Vandy did in one year go from not good to good.

Yall can argue about when that actually started. There is no one exactly right on that but the on the field argument is fact. This year is when it showed up on the field. That is all I said.

But that's what most of us are hoping happens with Lebby. It's a process. It took Lea 3+ seasons to go from "not good to good". It took Fisch 3 seasons at Arizona. Dillingham went from not good to good over 2 seasons.

With the schedule that we play and the barren roster that Lebby inherited, it was ridiculous for people to think that he was going to start reeling off wins. Sure, the Toledo debacle is a an unexpected result, but crap we can't stop anybody.

[HoopsDawg]

It's not hard to win in college.

Get a mobile QB that can throw decently
Recruit the trenches like a madman
Make sure to have 1 top notch WR
Get the best LB's and CB's you can

This

[Brobi-wan]

It was Ross and Donald Gray. They were a pretty good receiving duo, it also helped that we had a crappy defense and had to throw to stay in games. But, like most have mentioned regarding LOS, we had a good O Line. Hevesy never fielded a bad one.

Hevesy had our O-line looking decent every year. Rumor was he couldn’t recruit, but idk if there was much truth to that. I was a teenager back then so MSU sports were quite literally my life’s pursuit. Waiting all week to head up to stark and watch Dan and the Dawgs are some memories I will never forget. Atmosphere was much better then than now. I’ll never forget the tailgate that was roasting the Auburn Tiger over a fire or the headstone they had in the ice cream shop that said T A&M, Auburn, and LSU had died from a “Dak Attack.” What a time.

[StarkVegasSteve]

Hevesy had our O-line looking decent every year. Rumor was he couldn’t recruit, but idk if there was much truth to that. I was a teenager back then so MSU sports were quite literally my life’s pursuit. Waiting all week to head up to stark and watch Dan and the Dawgs are some memories I will never forget. Atmosphere was much better then than now. I’ll never forget the tailgate that was roasting the Auburn Tiger over a fire or the headstone they had in the ice cream shop that said T A&M, Auburn, and LSU had died from a “Dak Attack.” What a time.

He was an ass hole. He would tell recruits to their face that they weren't that special. He knew the type of player he wanted and the type of player he could develop into a high level starter at the SEC level. Hev was an ass hole, but his players would run through a wall for him.

Another reason people don't like him is he was an ass hole to fans as well. You'll find that a lot of fans, myself included, have a Hevesy story about how he was an ass hole to them. I didn't like him at first but when I got to know the players that played for him and realized that they'd run through a wall for him, then you got to understand that he had a method to the way he was.

[DownwardDawg]

But that's what most of us are hoping happens with Lebby. It's a process. It took Lea 3+ seasons to go from "not good to good". It took Fisch 3 seasons at Arizona. Dillingham went from not good to good over 2 seasons.

With the schedule that we play and the barren roster that Lebby inherited, it was ridiculous for people to think that he was going to start reeling off wins. Sure, the Toledo debacle is a an unexpected result, but crap we can't stop anybody.

He took 22 players in the portal this year. Before that he didn't do much in the portal. So, it was really a 1 year turnaround He got serious and made it happen instantly.

[Coach34]

Mullen and Hev both did not resonate with recruits that were diva like. Kids that were loving being recruited and everybody kissing their ass. They resonated with the more serious lunch pail types. I get it because my personality is that way and why I hated sales. I'm not big on the selling process- either you want my shit or you dont. Ive shown you how good it is- I shouldnt have to do a song and dance to get you to use my products. Thats how they viewed recruiting- we've shown you what we are and about- either you want to f'ing play here or you dont.

Vandy's coach did a complete re-tooling in the offseason. He took over the defense and stopped being the CEO. He hired Kill and crew to come in and install an offense that is different. He realized he wouldnt beat SEC teams with Vandy talent unless he did something that gave them an advantage. Their offense does that.

[R2Dawg]

But that's what most of us are hoping happens with Lebby. It's a process. It took Lea 3+ seasons to go from "not good to good". It took Fisch 3 seasons at Arizona. Dillingham went from not good to good over 2 seasons.

With the schedule that we play and the barren roster that Lebby inherited, it was ridiculous for people to think that he was going to start reeling off wins. Sure, the Toledo debacle is a an unexpected result, but crap we can't stop anybody.

I agree with this post.

Instead of reading my post you inferred a belief/philosophy that I did not say or believe.

My main point was you have to have the right players (not just most expensive), right coaching. We don't have enough right of either right now, but it can be gotten. Lebby was left a mess and not just one year of Arnett. Leach left a mess to him. Its 4-5 years of mess to clean up.

[R2Dawg]

Mullen and Hev both did not resonate with recruits that were diva like. Kids that were loving being recruited and everybody kissing their ass. They resonated with the more serious lunch pail types. I get it because my personality is that way and why I hated sales. I'm not big on the selling process- either you want my shit or you dont. Ive shown you how good it is- I shouldnt have to do a song and dance to get you to use my products. Thats how they viewed recruiting- we've shown you what we are and about- either you want to f'ing play here or you dont.

Vandy's coach did a complete re-tooling in the offseason. He took over the defense and stopped being the CEO. He hired Kill and crew to come in and install an offense that is different. He realized he wouldnt beat SEC teams with Vandy talent unless he did something that gave them an advantage. Their offense does that.

Yep and Bulldog nation needs to return to our roots and get the kids like Mullen got. We went woke/diva hungary when Moorhead got here and then Leach said screw recruiting except for WR and QB. 6 years of not getting the right type players killed our program. It ain't really about AR even thought I never liked it. We quit getting MSU winners.

[CaptainObvious]

I will be very surprised if Vandy wins more than 6 games. Very surprised. That would get them to a bowl but just their luck, they will have to bus to Memphis or Birmingham. But I do remember many of our fans saying they wouldn't go watch State play in Birmingham's Bowl. Based on what I've seen, State fans better line up to buy tickets to Birmingham next year if State wins 6 games! People talk about supporting the program. When/if State gets to a 6 win season, those grumblers better be ready to sell out a bowl game.

[bobtail bob]

Big bruising offensive line with rotating RBs . A Qb that can make a few plays when called upon. A defensive front seven that makes the other QB fear them if they throw it often. That’s the formula that has ever had any success at MSU. It would work too in today’s gimmicky offense era.
I don’t know when it was decided that we had to continue on with Coach Leach’s style of team. No decision maker has lost his job yet for anything football related post Mullen or Strickland. That lets you know right there that nobody up there cares about winning. Only about the charity that the SEC gives the school in exchange for laying down and not making waves.
I’m apathetic to it at this point.

[Todd4State]

Big bruising offensive line with rotating RBs . A Qb that can make a few plays when called upon. A defensive front seven that makes the other QB fear them if they throw it often. That’s the formula that has ever had any success at MSU. It would work too in today’s gimmicky offense era.
I don’t know when it was decided that we had to continue on with Coach Leach’s style of team. No decision maker has lost his job yet for anything football related post Mullen or Strickland. That lets you know right there that nobody up there cares about winning. Only about the charity that the SEC gives the school in exchange for laying down and not making waves.
I’m apathetic to it at this point.

It's like our fans have forgotten that 2022 even happened. Or LSU 2020. Or Auburn 2021.

It's a small sample size but technically if you are talking about wins and losses and percentage of success we technically had more success in terms of wins throwing the ball all the time with the Air Raid than we did running the ball all the time.

[Hot Rock]

Dang people, reading comprehension 101. I never said coach was there one year. BUT Vandy did in one year go from not good to good.

Yall can argue about when that actually started. There is no one exactly right on that but the on the field argument is fact. This year is when it showed up on the field. That is all I said.

The clock started ticking the day he was hired, not his first good run. There is no other way to look at it that makes sense. Besides, they lost to Ga State this year. They aren't exactly headed to the playoffs and still may not make a bowl game. They are 3-2 with several winnable games ahead and could get to 6 or 7 wins but also could only notch 4 or 5 wins. People won't be taking them so lightly now that they beat Bama.

[DEDawg]

Big bruising offensive line with rotating RBs . A Qb that can make a few plays when called upon. A defensive front seven that makes the other QB fear them if they throw it often. That’s the formula that has ever had any success at MSU. It would work too in today’s gimmicky offense era.
I don’t know when it was decided that we had to continue on with Coach Leach’s style of team. No decision maker has lost his job yet for anything football related post Mullen or Strickland. That lets you know right there that nobody up there cares about winning. Only about the charity that the SEC gives the school in exchange for laying down and not making waves.
I’m apathetic to it at this point.

Never understood why people call this offensive era gimmicky when all the teams winning NCs are running it. Would that not make it the opposite of a gimmick? Call it finesse, or less physical, or whatever but if it wins championships it isn?t really a gimmick.