I thought Croom was bad...

[Cowbell]

There was a time when I thought Croom was the worst thing to ever happen to State sports. He was the entirety of my undergraduate years, and I will always dislike him for the lack of hope in our program at that time. Now having lived through the Moorhead and Foxhall years, I realize now that they take the cake. Look at the talent that those guys had in each sport and where they are now. As time goes along, I'm starting to think that Lemonis needs to be fired for the lone fact of the abuse of talent that we had at the pitcher position. Every guy that sucked here seems to be magically fixed in the minors and my Twitter feed daily reminds me of that.

[RockyDog]

You are out of your mind.

Moorhead certainly underachieved. Foxhall contributed to a damn NATTY and then flamed out. If you think EITHER of those are worse than the crap that Crooms put out there then I cant help ya.

We were one of the most inept offenses in college football for 5 years!! We named a guy with a junior high body as an SEC starting QB. We stole recruits from the SWAC and the Sun Belt and CUSA. Putting up 300 yards per game was mostly a pipe dream. Crooms ran a historically bad program and NOBODY comes close.

[Coach34]

Comparing the guy that lost to Maine to the guy with the only NCAA Title in school history that finished Top 5 in the SEC this past season.

Wow

[SPMT]

Comparing the guy that lost to Maine to the guy with the only NCAA Title in school history that finished Top 5 in the SEC this past season.

Wow

Some people are just 17n dumb

[MoreCowbell]

I would say Arnett did as much damage in 1 year as anybody did in 4. I cannot remember this much apathy towards the football program going into a season since I have been alive. He sure did take the wind out of everyones sail. The rebuild did not have to be THIS bad.

Granted he was put in a tough position with Leach death but mannn did he fumble the bag.

[redstickdawg]

I would say Arnett did as much damage in 1 year as anybody did in 4. I cannot remember this much apathy towards the football program going into a season since I have been alive. He sure did take the wind out of everyones sail. The rebuild did not have to be THIS bad.

Granted he was put in a tough position with Leach death but mannn did he fumble the bag.

The untimely death of Leach was a huge bow to the program and followed by the self inflicted .38 to the forehead that was Arnett has certainly put us back many years. Hopefully Libby can start building us up again and build some excitement that we are currently missing. Only time will tell

[somebodyshotmypaw]

There was a time when I thought Croom was the worst thing to ever happen to State sports. He was the entirety of my undergraduate years, and I will always dislike him for the lack of hope in our program at that time. Now having lived through the Moorhead and Foxhall years, I realize now that they take the cake. Look at the talent that those guys had in each sport and where they are now. As time goes along, I'm starting to think that Lemonis needs to be fired for the lone fact of the abuse of talent that we had at the pitcher position. Every guy that sucked here seems to be magically fixed in the minors and my Twitter feed daily reminds me of that.

This post should go down in the anals (I know it is actually spelled “annals” but my spelling is for effect) of message board idiocy. Lemonis and Fox won a natty. Croom actually lost a game where the opposition scored 3 points AND our defense scored points. We have gotten absolutely delusional when we compare Lemonis to Croom. Now I am waiting on Tusk to compare Nick Saban to Mike Shula.

[Coach34]

Arnett has zero to do with my apathy. Plus- we were always going to have to transition from Leach at some point. Arnett took the bullet and did it. Now Lebbo has a chance to go forward get it rolling.

If we were expected to go 8-4 this season my excitement would not be any higher

[BigDawg81]

I would say that Arnett was worse than Croom

[99jc]

Arnett-rick ray- and Charles Shira were the 3 worst coaches at MSU the last 60 years!

[viverlibre]

No one was worse than SloMo, he took a fully loaded, new off the lot, F350 and turned it in a rusted out 1997 Silverado with 300k miles and a dented tail gate. Had Mullen stated we win double digit games and challenge for the SEC.

[RockyDog]

I would say that Arnett was worse than Croom

Then you would be delusional.

Arnept and Barbrady were certainly bad. But they beat a team in Arizona that finished in the top 15. They beat Arkansas on the road. They didn’t lose an OOC game much less one to an FCS.

The difference is that we recognized the wheels fell off and cut it off. Unlike Simpleton who let Crooms run the program into the ditch.

[RockyDog]

No one was worse than SloMo, he took a fully loaded, new off the lot, F350 and turned it in a rusted out 1997 Silverado with 300k miles and a dented tail gate. Had Mullen stated we win double digit games and challenge for the SEC.

Another delusional one here. No pass Fitz wasn’t leading anybody to double digit wins.

[CaptainObvious]

In Moorhead's 4 losses in '18, State Scored 7 against UK(28) 6 against Florida(13) , 3 against LSU(19) 0 against Bama(24). Mullen's offense with Fitz would have scored more in all of those games, no doubt in my mind. Certainly, the Florida game would have been different and maybe even LSU. The offense looked so bad against Kentucky, that was when most State fans started to realize, SLO Joe might not be all he was cracked up to be. But..... he beat Ole Miss, not once but twice, and that couldn't even save him when he turned on the fans!!

[SPMT]

A bit off topic, but how did Stricklin get the Florida job. The only major hire I recall from him was Rick Ray, an absolute disaster.

[Todd4State]

With MSU fans there isn't any middle ground. You are either Croom or you're Mullen. But there is a lot of middle ground. Lemonis falls in that middle ground and is probably closer to- and may actually be better than Dan.

In football terms, what Lemonis has done would be like going to a playoff bowl in year one, winning a NC in year 2 and then go 5-7 and 6-6 the next two years followed up with an 8-4 season with a Liberty Bowl appearance.

The issue Lemonis has is our expectations are a lot higher in baseball and he has struggled to match that. What I mean by that is overall he isn't doing a bad job if you look at his career here as a whole but he simply isn't doing a good enough job at reaching the ceiling of what MSU's program can and should be. Cohen was a much, much better baseball coach and really should get as much credit for the NC as many of our fans give to Cannizaro. He set the wheels in motion for us to get the great players we did, he is the main reason that 2016-2021 happened, and he brought in some of the best assistants in the game who were elite recruiters. I can only dream about what would have happened had we had Cohen as our head coach with Wes Johnson at PC and Andy Cannizarro as our hitting coach with Cohen overseeing him. Cohen is the reason we have the expectations that we do now. Lemonis just happened to pick it up at the right time with a team that couldn't fail.

Unfortunately, I feel like Lemonis's ceiling is probably fifth best in the SEC. He is pretty good at recruiting high school, good at recruiting JUCO, but he struggles in the portal. There are too many stories about him and his staff being lazy from different people for me to assume anything other than that's his main issue. We evaluated signability poorly this draft- which is something that Gautreau was supposed to be good at managing and he has not been as advertised recently. Which brings me to Lemonis's biggest weakness which is holding onto assistants that are not performing for too long. Had he fired Foxhall after 2022 I doubt 2023 is as bad as it turned out to be. And I doubt our portal class is as bad as it would be if Gautreau was somewhere other than MSU. All that to say - 5th place simply isn't good enough for MSU and nor should it be. So, if he simply makes a regional next year that shouldn't be good enough. And it will be interesting to see what the big boosters think if that happens. I don't think he would be fired if that happens but I do think he will start to lose support unless he starts to win at a level that MSU fans expect very soon. Cutting bait with Gautreau and hiring Austin Cousino/Nick Ammirrati would be a big step in the right direction to fixing that.

[Todd4State]

I would say that Arnett was worse than Croom

I agree. We just cut it off so we didn't have to find out how bad.

I get that Arnett was hired in a tragic situation but MSU handled that as poorly as we possibly could.

"Keeping the recruiting class together" simply doesn't matter in the portal era. At least keeping the recruiting class together was the party line we were sold.

Of course what really happened was "We're going to take advantage of Leach dying to get our friends jobs on the football staff."- the MSU boosters.

[Todd4State]

Then you would be delusional.

Arnept and Barbrady were certainly bad. But they beat a team in Arizona that finished in the top 15. They beat Arkansas on the road. They didn’t lose an OOC game much less one to an FCS.

The difference is that we recognized the wheels fell off and cut it off. Unlike Simpleton who let Crooms run the program into the ditch.

The truth is Croom did what he was told to do by LT. And I'm not saying that Croom was a good coach but by 2007 we won 8 games and then after Dan took over it took him two seasons to win the Gator Bowl mostly with players that Croom recruited. That's hardly what I would consider "in the ditch".

[Todd4State]

A bit off topic, but how did Stricklin get the Florida job. The only major hire I recall from him was Rick Ray, an absolute disaster.

He thought he was going to get fired here and left to get ahead of things after he talked Keenum into keeping Dan and Dan followed up by losing to South Alabama. Keenum was pissed at Dan for interviewing for jobs instead of preparing the team for the Egg Bowl.

I really wouldn't be surprised if there is a push to hire him back after Selmon leaves for somewhere else assuming he isn't at Florida at that time.

[MoreCowbell]

Another delusional one here. No pass Fitz wasn?t leading anybody to double digit wins.

With Mullen as coach and play caller and the #1 defense in the country? You are delusional if you do not think that team wins 10 or more games in 2018 with Fitz at QB.

[Todd4State]

In Moorhead's 4 losses in '18, State Scored 7 against UK(28) 6 against Florida(13) , 3 against LSU(19) 0 against Bama(24). Mullen's offense with Fitz would have scored more in all of those games, no doubt in my mind. Certainly, the Florida game would have been different and maybe even LSU. The offense looked so bad against Kentucky, that was when most State fans started to realize, SLO Joe might not be all he was cracked up to be. But..... he beat Ole Miss, not once but twice, and that couldn't even save him when he turned on the fans!!

In hindsight we should have either:

A. Hired a power spread coach like Charlie Strong (Defensive coach on the Urban Meyer tree)

or

B. Hired Leach, told Fitzgerald to transfer and brought in Gardner Minchew. Which probably wouldn't have been received well given how Fitz was injured and Minchew was an unknown who bounced around and couldn't make it at places like East Carolina.

[Todd4State]

With Mullen as coach and play caller and the #1 defense in the country? You are delusional if you do not think that team wins 10 or more games in 2018 with Fitz at QB.

At a minimum we probably beat Florida and Kentucky.

Ole Miss was so bad that year that I think it would have been like 2016 all over again with Ole Miss scoring fewer points. Like 56-3.

[DownwardDawg]

Another delusional one here. No pass Fitz wasn?t leading anybody to double digit wins.

Mullen would have won 11 games in 2018 with Fitz.

[DownwardDawg]

There was a time when I thought Croom was the worst thing to ever happen to State sports. He was the entirety of my undergraduate years, and I will always dislike him for the lack of hope in our program at that time. Now having lived through the Moorhead and Foxhall years, I realize now that they take the cake. Look at the talent that those guys had in each sport and where they are now. As time goes along, I'm starting to think that Lemonis needs to be fired for the lone fact of the abuse of talent that we had at the pitcher position. Every guy that sucked here seems to be magically fixed in the minors and my Twitter feed daily reminds me of that.

This is terribly wrong. Way off. Arnett is the worst or right there with Croom. Moorehead went 8-4 in his first year. Definitely underachieved but Croom would have taken 4 years to win 8 total.
Foxhall was the pitching coach when we won a National Championship. Stop drinking on Sundays!!!!! Lol

[Coach34]

In Moorhead's 4 losses in '18, State Scored 7 against UK(28) 6 against Florida(13) , 3 against LSU(19) 0 against Bama(24). Mullen's offense with Fitz would have scored more in all of those games, no doubt in my mind. Certainly, the Florida game would have been different and maybe even LSU. The offense looked so bad against Kentucky, that was when most State fans started to realize, SLO Joe might not be all he was cracked up to be. But..... he beat Ole Miss, not once but twice, and that couldn't even save him when he turned on the fans!!

SloMo had Fitz throw 40 passes vs Kentucky in the rain. Between the Fla game and that one- it was obvious this guy was far from being an offensive genius

[RockyDog]

With Mullen as coach and play caller and the #1 defense in the country? You are delusional if you do not think that team wins 10 or more games in 2018 with Fitz at QB.

Mullen LEFT. You don't get to call your shot and then dip. I'm not playing hypotheticals here. If Mullen wanted to win 10 games with Fitz at QB he should have stayed. He didn't. Fitz couldn't hit the broad side of a barn. We didn't win 10.

[TrapGame]

Croom was a moron that had no business being a D1 head coach whatsoever. He set us back a decade in football.

Fitz was Fitz. And yes, Mullen wins 10 games with Fitz as QB.

[StateDawg44]

Croom was a moron that had no business being a D1 head coach whatsoever. He set us back a decade in football.



This is really the truth. This is when the SEC really established it's footprint as the premier/dominant conference. The conference progressed immensely in the early 2000s and 10's and we floundered nearly the entire time that we could've improved our stock.

Our administration absolutely failed us by allowing Croom to tank us for so damn long.

[TrapGame]

This is really the truth. This is when the SEC really established it's footprint as the premier/dominant conference. The conference progressed immensely in the early 2000s and 10's and we floundered nearly the entire time that we could've improved our stock.

Our administration absolutely failed us by allowing Croom to tank us for so damn long.

And that's why the administration was so quick to boot Moorhead and Arnett. Croom left us with PTSD.

[viverlibre]

Croom was a moron that had no business being a D1 head coach whatsoever. He set us back a decade in football.

Fitz was Fitz. And yes, Mullen wins 10 games with Fitz as QB.

Crooms was terrible, but within two years after he left we won 9 games and 4 years later we were ranked number 1. We were sent back a year or two at the most.

The right coach can turn it around in a couple years.

[StarkVegasSteve]

Then you would be delusional.

Arnept and Barbrady were certainly bad. But they beat a team in Arizona that finished in the top 15. They beat Arkansas on the road. They didn?t lose an OOC game much less one to an FCS.

The difference is that we recognized the wheels fell off and cut it off. Unlike Simpleton who let Crooms run the program into the ditch.

This doesn't get talked about NEARLY enough. That Arizona team went 10-3 and lost to the national runner ups, a USC team before the wheels fell off and......US. Now I still say if Fifita played against us we would have lost by 4 TDs, but that is neither here nor there because he didn't. A lot of State fans started to get worried after that game because we thought Arizona was awful. Turns out, they were probably the second or third best team we played last year. Oddly enough we played ok against them and OM, who both finished inside the top 12. And played like dog crap against teams without a pulse (Western Michigan, Arkansas, Auburn, A&M, etc.)

[FISHDAWG]

Mullen would have won 11 games in 2018 with Fitz.

And that defense

[was21]

It's possible that Stricklin got the Florida job because of what he had done managing the athletic facilities management and expansion of football stadium and baseball stadium as a fund raiser, At Florida, selecting coaches is not exclusive to the AD.

[StarkVegasSteve]

It's possible that Stricklin got the Florida job because of what he had done managing the athletic facilities management and expansion of football stadium and baseball stadium as a fund raiser, At Florida, selecting coaches is not exclusive to the AD.

Yep because the old AD and the Ole Ball Coach still have A LOT of say

[MoreCowbell]

Mullen LEFT. You don't get to call your shot and then dip. I'm not playing hypotheticals here. If Mullen wanted to win 10 games with Fitz at QB he should have stayed. He didn't. Fitz couldn't hit the broad side of a barn. We didn't win 10.

No shit, but you DID play hypothetical. You said no coach would have won double digit games in 2018 with Fitz at QB and I was just pointing out how dumb your comment was.

[Coach34]

Yep because the old AD and the Ole Ball Coach still have A LOT of say

This

Stricklin's job at Florida is safe as long as he makes sure the day to day things run smooth. He had very little in the decision making to hire Sunbelt Billy. All he did on the Mullen hire is make the call after Foley and Spurrier realized nobody better wanted it. Loafers is there to make sure women's softball and track are solid

[Coach34]

No shit, but you DID play hypothetical. You said no coach would have won double digit games in 2018 with Fitz at QB and I was just pointing out how dumb your comment was.

We damn near beat Bama in 2017 with Fitz at QB- people seem to forget those things

[BrunswickDawg]

We damn near beat Bama in 2017 with Fitz at QB- people seem to forget those things

People also forget how bad our WR were in 2017 and 2018. 3 300 yard games in 2016 when he had Fred Ross and a healthy Donald Gray - none in 2017 or 2018.

[Cowbell]

SloMo had Fitz throw 40 passes vs Kentucky in the rain. Between the Fla game and that one- it was obvious this guy was far from being an offensive genius

I will agree with you here. Man that was hard to watch

[StarkVegasSteve]

People also forget how bad our WR were in 2017 and 2018. 3 300 yard games in 2016 when he had Fred Ross and a healthy Donald Gray - none in 2017 or 2018.

2015 and 2016 were as good as our offense ran under Mullen. We had a good crop of receivers and Dak and Fitz had Mullen's offense humming. I mean go look at some of the point totals we put up those two years. We put up 40+ 7 times and put up 50+ 4 times.

[BrunswickDawg]

2015 and 2016 were as good as our offense ran under Mullen. We had a good crop of receivers and Dak and Fitz had Mullen's offense humming. I mean go look at some of the point totals we put up those two years. We put up 40+ 7 times and put up 50+ 4 times.

As much as people get mad at Mullen about leaving when he had 2018 teed up - I get pissed at him about the way he handled 2016. I realize Fitz was raw and Williams was older and had essentially sacrificed and taken the RS in 2015 for the shot at being QB1, but you would have a hard time convincing me that Williams was really pushing for the job. Fitz vs. Williams didn't split the team - Dan not deciding and letting it fester until game week split the team. And then you have the USA clown show - which only looked worse the next week Fitz rolls USCe for 195 yards rushing. A committed, focused Dan Mullen leads that team to at least 9 wins, maybe more. USA, LSU, BYU were all winnable - even with Peter Simon calling the D.

[StarkVegasSteve]

As much as people get mad at Mullen about leaving when he had 2018 teed up - I get pissed at him about the way he handled 2016. I realize Fitz was raw and Williams was older and had essentially sacrificed and taken the RS in 2015 for the shot at being QB1, but you would have a hard time convincing me that Williams was really pushing for the job. Fitz vs. Williams didn't split the team - Dan not deciding and letting it fester until game week split the team. And then you have the USA clown show - which only looked worse the next week Fitz rolls USCe for 195 yards rushing. A committed, focused Dan Mullen leads that team to at least 9 wins, maybe more. USA, LSU, BYU were all winnable - even with Peter Simon calling the D.

Dan not just committing to Nick definitely muddied it and just when we thought it was settled after USCe, Williams comes in and almost leads the comeback in Death Valley. Which was a combo of LSU being basically in prevent D and the players wanting to play more for Williams......which again was Dan's fault because he never had a thought of making Williams the starter. Had Dan come out in July-August and said Nick is the definitely the starter and not done that split reps crap all the way through the first game then it would've never been an issue.

That team had problems all over it. They didn't have any leaders and they were honestly just soft, outside of a couple. Heck this is the team that tried to have Bob Carskadon fired because he wrote an article critiquing some of their beards.

[DownwardDawg]

And that defense

Yes. 100%. I was assuming that was understood. That defense plus Fitz. Easy 11 win season.

[Todd4State]

Dan not just committing to Nick definitely muddied it and just when we thought it was settled after USCe, Williams comes in and almost leads the comeback in Death Valley. Which was a combo of LSU being basically in prevent D and the players wanting to play more for Williams......which again was Dan's fault because he never had a thought of making Williams the starter. Had Dan come out in July-August and said Nick is the definitely the starter and not done that split reps crap all the way through the first game then it would've never been an issue.

That team had problems all over it. They didn't have any leaders and they were honestly just soft, outside of a couple. Heck this is the team that tried to have Bob Carskadon fired because he wrote an article critiquing some of their beards.

That South Alabama loss was everything bad about Dan rolled into one game.

Playing upperclassmen over more talented underclassmen? Check

Going through the motions against an OOC opponent at least once a year? Check (But that's most MSU coaches)

Dan in shorts? Check

Dan pissy because he didn't get a "better job" in the offseason? Check

Missing a chip shot field goal because Dan coached special teams and we had a kicker whose field goal make line on TV was in the red zone? Also Check

[TUSK]

This post should go down in the anals (I know it is actually spelled ?annals? but my spelling is for effect) of message board idiocy. Lemonis and Fox won a natty. Croom actually lost a game where the opposition scored 3 points AND our defense scored points. We have gotten absolutely delusional when we compare Lemonis to Croom. Now I am waiting on Tusk to compare Nick Saban to Mike Shula.

Heretic.

[RockyDog]

No shit, but you DID play hypothetical. You said no coach would have won double digit games in 2018 with Fitz at QB and I was just pointing out how dumb your comment was.

I didn't play hypothetical. I said that Fitz could not lead a team to 10 wins and he didn't. Not even close. He was a great running QB that hit some prayers in the passing game. But he was not a 10 game winning QB. If Dan thought he could work that miracle he should have stayed. He didn't and now yall simpletons blame Moorhead for not winning a damn SEC championship with a 50% passer.

[Coach34]

Lemonis won a Natty

Croom told the world he was going to line up foot to foot and run straight at LSU and Nick Saban.

One of these is not like the other