Is Freeze's recruiting class falling apart?

[Eric Nies Grind Time]

They just lost a recruiting battle to FSU for Kareem Are.

They lost out to A&M for Gennessy.

CJ Hampton is apparently flipping from them to Alabama.

Finally long time lock Nyles Morgan is rumored to be going to Notre Dame.

What is happening there?

[starkvegasdawg]

The checks must have bounced.

[MadDawg]

Obviously they aren't praying hard enough.

[Irondawg]

it's not the dead period yet

[ShotgunDawg]

IDK, people realized that they aren't very good.

[engie]

Yeah -- it really is right now.

Let's see how they rebound though. They lost a bunch of battles in last class before ultimately winning a bunch of them that they shouldn't have even been in.

But, as of right now, their fanbase is very close to going into full meltdown mode...

[CadaverDawg]

Maybe the recruits are starting to realize that the shit they're selling is simply that...shit.

Instead, they will be going to a perennial 6-7 or less win team that will never compete at the highest levels, and their coach will throw them under the bus when they lose. The big recruiting class for ole miss last year could have done 1 of 2 things...

1. It could have propelled them into a 9 win season and another stud class, which would send that program into a great position.

Or

2. It would show the country that Ole miss can have the best players in the World, but will always be shitty ole TSUN that can't make it to Atlanta.

So far, it's number 2

[AlSwearengen]

same thing happened last year, which may have been a motivating factor for their late "all in" effort.

[engie]

same thing happened last year, which may have been a motivating factor for their late "all in" effort.

Exactly.

I don't really see them having that option this year with all the stuff going on around their program -- but what do I know...

[thunderclap]

Georgia Tech is my close second favorite team right now.

[ShotgunDawg]

Freeze certainly didn't do himself any favors in the last episode of the Season.

Don't think that stuff isn't being used against.

By the way, on 247, a guy is proclaiming that CJ Hampton wants to go to MSU, and he is persistent about it.

[Jacksondevildog]

Nothing to see here folks. They probably "stopped recruiting" CJ Hampton and "have someone evaluated higher" than Are. They will float some cash at another top prospect to save face and tell people that it was planned all of the time and that these guys are amazing recruiters. It's easy as hell to recruit to a school when you can have whores and cash waiting upon their arrival.

[quickstrike2]

Na. The dead period is when the funsies begin at Ole Miss. Fly the studs out to the bowl game, then its cars, cloths, and hoes the whole month of January!

[smootness]

The recruiting style of Orgeron/Freeze lends itself to decommitments. All along, though, a lot of Ole Miss and State fans have just assumed they would close like they did last year, and that's just not realistic.

First, it's a lot easier to sell a kid on, 'I'm a new coach, and we're going places now. I just took a terrible team to a bowl game, and just wait until you see where we will be,' than it is on, 'Well, I've been here two years now and we're in the Music City Bowl but I promise that we are going places if you give us time'.

Also, last year was a perfect storm, as many have pointed out. They were always getting Conner, but Nkemdiche, Treadwell, and Tunsil mostly went to Ole Miss together because they were all thinking about playing together and it developed a lot of momentum. Ole Miss sold them all on being a package and taking Ole Miss to new heights.

Well, it helped that it was already a great fit for Nkemdiche and Treadwell because of family/friends and that they had Conner, too. Now, they don't have any ready-made 5-stars from South Panola, and they don't have connections with the top guys they had last year. So it's a lot harder to get several top guys to buy in when it's just them and there doesn't seem to be as much momentum among elite prospects.

ETA: They also used up their official visits on some of their top guys early, presumably to get them in the boat earlier, but it may have backfired. They banked last year's class on everybody coming in for the same weekend, and it helped promote that feeling of momentum and that they could have so many top guys actually go to Ole Miss. But that's not an option this year; they swayed guys like Tunsil and Golson late almost solely based on that last visit, and it won't happen the same way this year.

[Jack Lambert]

Yeah -- it really is right now.

Let's see how they rebound though. They lost a bunch of battles in last class before ultimately winning a bunch of them that they shouldn't have even been in.

But, as of right now, their fanbase is very close to going into full meltdown mode...

But how many best friends from highschool and big brothers do they have this time around?

[Goat Holder]

This year is nothing like last year for them. They don't have the end of season momentum to push the spin machine for them. Now they have to do it all themselves and actually rely on truth, which is not good for them.

[EAVdog]

If you are recruiting let's say with additional benefits then everything is just a bidding war. Perhaps a team like an Auburn (who we know cheats) could come in and poaches a player **cough cough Whitehead, Mason cough cough** out from under your nose. There is no loyalty or bond built, the commitment is simply a transaction. It's easy to end up empty handed, especially if your'e in a bidding war with folks who have deeper pockets.

You can guarantee UGA, FSU, Bama, et al will not be caught off guard this year.

[maroonmania]

Maybe there really is some NCAA heat forcing them to dial things back a little.

[Political Hack]

Maybe there really is some NCAA heat forcing them to dial things back a little.

ding ding ding. we have a winner.

[Coach34]

Maybe there really is some NCAA heat forcing them to dial things back a little.

They sure arent as full of themselves nor are they giving the Yancy gay smiley face this year when talking about recruits. It's just a totally different feel going on this year for them. Not seeing the "All-in" effort this year

[notsofarawaydawg]

IDK, people realized that they aren't very good.


More like they have realized that Freezus is not the coach he and his boosters make him out to be. He might can baptize and provide white whores, but he's lost on the field.

[Todd4State]

The recruiting style of Orgeron/Freeze lends itself to decommitments. All along, though, a lot of Ole Miss and State fans have just assumed they would close like they did last year, and that's just not realistic.

First, it's a lot easier to sell a kid on, 'I'm a new coach, and we're going places now. I just took a terrible team to a bowl game, and just wait until you see where we will be,' than it is on, 'Well, I've been here two years now and we're in the Music City Bowl but I promise that we are going places if you give us time'.

Also, last year was a perfect storm, as many have pointed out. They were always getting Conner, but Nkemdiche, Treadwell, and Tunsil mostly went to Ole Miss together because they were all thinking about playing together and it developed a lot of momentum. Ole Miss sold them all on being a package and taking Ole Miss to new heights.

Well, it helped that it was already a great fit for Nkemdiche and Treadwell because of family/friends and that they had Conner, too. Now, they don't have any ready-made 5-stars from South Panola, and they don't have connections with the top guys they had last year. So it's a lot harder to get several top guys to buy in when it's just them and there doesn't seem to be as much momentum among elite prospects.

ETA: They also used up their official visits on some of their top guys early, presumably to get them in the boat earlier, but it may have backfired. They banked last year's class on everybody coming in for the same weekend, and it helped promote that feeling of momentum and that they could have so many top guys actually go to Ole Miss. But that's not an option this year; they swayed guys like Tunsil and Golson late almost solely based on that last visit, and it won't happen the same way this year.

Exactly. No way in hell they get Nkemdiche without his brother. There's a reason why they do the brother package deals. And if they don't get Nkemdiche, I highly doubt they get Tunsil, Treadwell, or Golson.

Their party still wasn't enough to get them Chris Jones, Shumpert, Herron, Carr, Lawson, and Daniels.

[Todd4State]

Freeze certainly didn't do himself any favors in the last episode of the Season.

Don't think that stuff isn't being used against.

By the way, on 247, a guy is proclaiming that CJ Hampton wants to go to MSU, and he is persistent about it.

I'll believe it when he sets up and goes on an OV to MSU. That said, I don't think that's too far out there because he is allegedly related to Tyler somehow.

[mic]

Check out their OV's.. a lot of the kids they are losing or missing out on have already visited too. They have their one "BIG WEEKEND" but the names right now aren't anything like normal.. I am hearing they are pushing for JT Gray hard now.. A while back they"didnt have room and didn't need him"...

[engie]

I'll believe it when he sets up and goes on an OV to MSU. That said, I don't think that's too far out there because he is allegedly related to Tyler somehow.

CJ is an EE. His decision will be officially made very soon...

[ShotgunDawg]

CJ is an EE. His decision will be officially made very soon...

What's an EE?

[Coach34]

early enrollee

[slickdawg]

Early Enrolee, Electrical Engineer, Electric Eel

[fishwater99]

But how many best friends from highschool and big brothers do they have this time around?

So true... I don't see another Top 5 class this year, maybe Top 20.

[Westdawg]

can you imagine the meltdown that would ensue should CJ enroll at MSU??? Oh my, I would dream like a little kid the night before Christmas..... Rebel tears would fall like a spring shower!!!

[Todd4State]

CJ is an EE. His decision will be officially made very soon...

I did not realize that.

[ShotgunDawg]

early enrollee

Sorry, I wasn't caught up on recruiting text speak

By the way, there are some that truly believe that Bryant is better than Hampton anyway. Not saying they are right, but when you watch the videos, Bryant is just as big, as fast, and shows more versatility and play making ability.

Hampton is rated higher due to track record and playing against better competition.

[Pollodawg]

Do we have a serious shot at Hampton? Just curious?

[maroonmania]

Early Enrolee, Electrical Engineer, Electric Eel

Funny, reminds me of a lot of the girls on campus when I was in school that would say they were Double Es (--- elementary education).

[engie]

It's my opinion that we have no shot at Hampton whatsoever... We haven't been a serious player at any point in his recruitment.

Would love to be wrong -- but I just don't see it... We got beat in the 2014 class over a year ago -- and we seem to be returning the favor in the 2015 class...

[ShotgunDawg]

It's my opinion that we have no shot at Hampton whatsoever... We haven't been a serious player at any point in his recruitment.

Would love to be wrong -- but I just don't see it... We got beat in the 2014 class over a year ago -- and we seem to be returning the favor in the 2015 class...

Agree, the good thing is that it looks like we may have a chance to really whip them in 2015 class in a year with far more players.

[Todd4State]

It's my opinion that we have no shot at Hampton whatsoever... We haven't been a serious player at any point in his recruitment.

Would love to be wrong -- but I just don't see it... We got beat in the 2014 class over a year ago -- and we seem to be returning the favor in the 2015 class...

If he flipped to us, it would probably in all honesty be the most surprising flip I have seen in years. Since we know he is going to be an EE, the only hope I see us possibly having would be for our guys at the All-Star game to get into his ear. And then Dan, Hughes, and Collins all go in and get the last home visit and have it go really well.

[hacker]

Hampton is supposed to be announcing next week.

[smootness]

The thing that I would worry about as an Ole Miss fan is that Freeze's strategy, as we saw last year, can lead to insane results. They go really hard after several elite guys and spent a lot of their energy doing that. Most of these kids are out-of-state, and they publicly stated last year that they specifically targeted guys with connections to something/somebody at Ole Miss (nothing wrong with this, it's how we got Fred Ross last year).

But when that is the entire basis for your recruiting strategy, it also has the potential to backfire in a pretty big way.

For one, you are relying a lot on evaluations of players from before their senior year in HS. Ole Miss makes a list of specific targets to go after, and they obviously do this early in the game. This means that if a player doesn't continue to develop like you expected, you may have wasted quite a bit of time on him. Also, it means you spend less time scouting and trying to find overlooked guys. People have made fun of us for recruiting 'diamonds' but it's pretty clear that we have brought in some darn good players this way. Brandon Bryant is one, even Chris Jones was a result of this kind of recruiting. They could never overcome the lead we had because we were on him way before anyone else. Add guys like Taveze Calhoun in as well. Ole Miss may get their share of 'projects', too, but I can pretty much guarantee you the low-rated guys we get are players our staff feels good about, but most of the ones they get are filler guys they had to get because they missed on their top targets.

Two, as I said, you're relying on going after a good bit of out-of-state kids, and you run the risk of losing your footing in your own state. Could we be seeing this manifest itself with the 2015 class? We'll see, but it's obvious that MS is still the absolute primary focus of our staff, and I'm not sure that's the case at Ole Miss. Once you lose the foundation in-state, you're left scrambling and fighting an uphill battle for guys with little connection to your school. You also risk not building the same kind of relationship that our coaches have with the HS coaches in the state, which goes back to part of the first point...you're less likely to discover guys, and coaches are less likely to both tell you about a kid or nudge him your way.

Three, once you go a couple years without great connections with any top guys, you're left hurting in a big way. Let's say, for example, that there are no real good prospects from Treadwell's HS next year (they may not get Morgan anyway this year); and let's say none of their players next year have family members that happen to be studs. What do you base the strategy on then? You don't have the same kind of foundation in-state, and it's harder to come crawling back and try to pick off top guys in MS at that point. You better win and keep winning, or once those connections dry up for a period, you're going to have very little luck trying to get elite guys out-of-state.

So you see, it's a three-pronged approach of failure. Pretty obvious.

[thf24]

Current recruits aside, does anyone think it's possible that any of last year's big star out-of-state recruits look to transfer once they realize that the carriage is turning back into a pumpkin? I know it's pretty rare for a football player to transfer for reasons other than academics or disciplinary issues, but combining the circumstances of their recruitment (family/friend connections, "playing together" hype) along with the realization they're playing for a possibly inept coach who's perfectly willing to throw them under the bus, I could see it happening.

[ShotgunDawg]

Current recruits aside, does anyone think it's possible that any of last year's big star out-of-state recruits look to transfer once they realize that the carriage is turning back into a pumpkin? I know it's pretty rare for a football player to transfer for reasons other than academics or disciplinary issues, but combining the circumstances of their recruitment (family/friend connections, "playing together" hype) along with the realization they're playing for a possibly inept coach who's perfectly willing to throw them under the bus, I could see it happening.

I doubt it because all four are "in bed" with OM, and will look to go to the NFL after their Junior year. Why leave Oxford and either lose a year or delay your entrance into the NFL for a year?

[thf24]

I doubt it because all four are "in bed" with OM, and will look to go to the NFL after their Junior year. Why leave Oxford and either lose a year or delay your entrance into the NFL for a year?

OM is definitely in bed with them, but what are they going to do if a player(s) decides to leave? Turn themselves in? The way I see it, it makes getting OM to let go of them all the easier. And even if they decided to transfer straight to another D1 school and sit out a year, they could still go to the NFL after their third total years regardless. I do agree with you that it's unlikely, but I still think it's possible for Kimdeechee and Treadwell given their circumstances and dispositions.

[Raytoraid83]

OM is definitely in bed with them, but what are they going to do if a player(s) decides to leave? Turn themselves in? The way I see it, it makes getting OM to let go of them all the easier. And even if they decided to transfer straight to another D1 school and sit out a year, they could still go to the NFL after their third total years regardless. I do agree with you that it's unlikely, but I still think it's possible for Kimdeechee and Treadwell given their circumstances and dispositions.

It would take something major for that to happen. One thing you can't knock them on is the way they market their "star" freshman. Everyone saw the way espn and the media bought into it. As long as they are there they'll make sure they get their media spot light even if it back fires and ends up hurting the team. It doesn't take much for a couple of roll players to start wondering why they aren't getting the same treatment that the treadwells and nkemdiche's are. A couple early losses next year and freeze might have gotten himself into a mess he can't get out of.

[Coach34]

OM is definitely in bed with them, but what are they going to do if a player(s) decides to leave? Turn themselves in? The way I see it, it makes getting OM to let go of them all the easier. And even if they decided to transfer straight to another D1 school and sit out a year, they could still go to the NFL after their third total years regardless. I do agree with you that it's unlikely, but I still think it's possible for Kimdeechee and Treadwell given their circumstances and dispositions.

Kimchee, Conner, Treadwell, and Tunsil are all 3 year guys. They arent going anywhere but to the NFL after 3 seasons. They are living the life in Oxford and will be ready to get drafted in 2016.

[Todd4State]

OM is definitely in bed with them, but what are they going to do if a player(s) decides to leave? Turn themselves in? The way I see it, it makes getting OM to let go of them all the easier. And even if they decided to transfer straight to another D1 school and sit out a year, they could still go to the NFL after their third total years regardless. I do agree with you that it's unlikely, but I still think it's possible for Kimdeechee and Treadwell given their circumstances and dispositions.

They'll make sure that they are happy. It may cost them more money, but they'll do whatever they have to do. If they did leave, they will pay them to keep quiet with regards to NCAA violations.

Let's look at two recently unhappy players for Ole Miss:

Tobias Singleton- Unhappy and left school shortly after arriving for his freshman year. The next day he suddenly shoots up the depth chart from third string to starter.

Kalio Moore- Switched to CB and was rumored to be unhappy and left school. The next day, Kalio is back at practice and at his preferred position of RB.

They know that if their stud recruits that they brag about leave, we're going to roast their ass on the message boards, twitter, and any other medium out there, and they can't stand that. In fact, they'll keep a guy on their team that is a cancer rather than have us lambast them.

[ShotgunDawg]

They'll make sure that they are happy. It may cost them more money, but they'll do whatever they have to do. If they did leave, they will pay them to keep quiet with regards to NCAA violations.

Let's look at two recently unhappy players for Ole Miss:

Tobias Singleton- Unhappy and left school shortly after arriving for his freshman year. The next day he suddenly shoots up the depth chart from third string to starter.

Kalio Moore- Switched to CB and was rumored to be unhappy and left school. The next day, Kalio is back at practice and at his preferred position of RB.

They know that if their stud recruits that they brag about leave, we're going to roast their ass on the message boards, twitter, and any other medium out there, and they can't stand that. In fact, they'll keep a guy on their team that is a cancer rather than have us lambast them.

Great points Todd, and this means that we should continue to lambast them when this stuff happens so they continue this behavior.

[dawgoneyall]

Why does everyone avoid the $$$ issue. Don't imply it didn't happen. And MSU knows it happened.

[dawgoneyall]

Do bears cry?

[Goat Holder]

Why are you saying we "got beat" in 2014 recruiting? I thought it was understood that this would be a small class. We got 2 much needed JUCO OL and another 2 HS guys. We got 2 QBs, one already has the hype and the other seems way under-rated and a hell of an athlete. We got the best player in the state in Gerri Green, the best tailback in the state in Aeris Williams, and two WRs in Jackson and Graham. And by all accounts an under-rated DB in Bryant. The rest seem like solid players. And we're still going after that hybrid 6'4", 250 lb. type that can play a bunch of positions, and that seems to be working for us.

All in all, a good class and I can't see why anyone is bitching about it.

[CadaverDawg]

Why are you saying we "got beat" in 2014 recruiting? I thought it was understood that this would be a small class. We got 2 much needed JUCO OL and another 2 HS guys. We got 2 QBs, one already has the hype and the other seems way under-rated and a hell of an athlete. We got the best player in the state in Gerri Green, the best tailback in the state in Aeris Williams, and two WRs in Jackson and Graham. And by all accounts an under-rated DB in Bryant. The rest seem like solid players. And we're still going after that hybrid 6'4", 250 lb. type that can play a bunch of positions, and that seems to be working for us.

All in all, a good class and I can't see why anyone is bitching about it.

I agree. We need to stop downplaying this class. We filled needs with great players in a small class. You can't ask for much more out of this class. I would have loved a few highly regarded OL commits, but we did get some decent OL prospects...so it's really hard to complain.

[smootness]

Why are you saying we "got beat" in 2014 recruiting? I thought it was understood that this would be a small class. We got 2 much needed JUCO OL and another 2 HS guys. We got 2 QBs, one already has the hype and the other seems way under-rated and a hell of an athlete. We got the best player in the state in Gerri Green, the best tailback in the state in Aeris Williams, and two WRs in Jackson and Graham. And by all accounts an under-rated DB in Bryant. The rest seem like solid players. And we're still going after that hybrid 6'4", 250 lb. type that can play a bunch of positions, and that seems to be working for us.

All in all, a good class and I can't see why anyone is bitching about it.

I'm not sure how many people are upset with this class.

Guys I love in this class:
Elijah Staley
Aeris Williams
Gerri Green
Jamoral Graham
Brandon Bryant
Deshon Cooper

And when I say 'love', I mean that I think they have a chance to be total studs.

I also like Jesse Jackson, Nick Fitzgerald, Durr and Rayford, and I'm intrigued by Liggins, Dontavian Lee, Will Coleman, and some of the OL we got.

I'm definitely not disappointed with the class, and if we landed Tee Shepard and at least one more good DL, it would be a very solid class.

One thing's for sure, we are going to be longer at LB than anybody in the country. McKinney, Dez Harris, Gerri Green, Deshon Cooper, Tim Washington, maybe Jay Johnson. That's a crazy amount of size at LB. If they can all keep their speed like McKinney and apparently Harris have, WOW.

[CadaverDawg]

I'm not sure how many people are upset with this class.

Guys I love in this class:
Elijah Staley
Aeris Williams
Gerri Green
Jamoral Graham
Brandon Bryant
Deshon Cooper

And when I say 'love', I mean that I think they have a chance to be total studs.

I also like Jesse Jackson, Nick Fitzgerald, Durr and Rayford, and I'm intrigued by Liggins, Dontavian Lee, Will Coleman, and some of the OL we got.

I'm definitely not disappointed with the class, and if we landed Tee Shepard and at least one more good DL, it would be a very solid class.

If we were to somehow pull Tee Shepard and Cory Thomas....this class would be great in my eyes. It is already really good.

[smootness]

I agree, though I don't think we're going to be able to flip Thomas.

[Westdawg]

I want marlon Humphrey. And getting Hampton would just be icing on the cake

[notsofarawaydawg]

can you imagine the meltdown that would ensue should CJ enroll at MSU??? Oh my, I would dream like a little kid the night before Christmas..... Rebel tears would fall like a spring shower!!!

Stores in Oxford would have to double their orders of Preparation H.

[smootness]

I want marlon Humphrey. And getting Hampton would just be icing on the cake

Well, sure, but neither of those is realistically going to happen.