State Standard? Interesting

[Coach34]

With a sweep of Mizzou this weekend- State would finish with 18 or more conference wins for only the 5th time in the last 25 years. It would also give Lemon 3 of those 5 seasons

In those 25 seasons- State has finished with 15 or less conference wins 14 times

[StarkVegasSteve]

I thought that was interesting stat when I read it, but it's a bit of a cherry picked stat. All 4 times have come in the last 10 years. Cohen had 2(14 and 16) and Lemonis had 2(19 and 21). When you space it out 25 years it looks really good. But when you look at the numbers it's still impressive, just not as impressive:

14: 18-12 (also: 18 conference wins and we didn't host. Something to monitor)
15: 8-22
16: 21-9
17: 17-13
18: 15-15
19: 20-10
21: 20-10
22: 9-21
23: 9-21

So we're right about on average for what we've been winning if you take out Cohen's bad year and Lemonis 2 bad years.

[viverlibre]

With a sweep of Mizzou this weekend- State would finish with 18 or more conference wins for only the 5th time in the last 25 years. It would also give Lemon 3 of those 5 seasons

In those 25 seasons- State has finished with 15 or less conference wins 14 times

Fur Lemonheadjuice!

[Coach34]

On the flip side:

Candy is about to have their 2nd losing season in conference in 3 seasons and their only 2 since 2009. NIL starts? Candy starts dropping

[StarkVegasSteve]

On the flip side:

Candy is about to have their 2nd losing season in conference in 3 seasons and their only 2 since 2009. NIL starts? Candy starts dropping

Some predicted that, but I really didn't think their fall would be this sharp.

[State82]

Some predicted that, but I really didn't think their fall would be this sharp.

It is still not sharp enough for me. Keep falling 'Dores.

[CaptainObvious]

I thought that was interesting stat when I read it, but it's a bit of a cherry picked stat. All 4 times have come in the last 10 years. Cohen had 2(14 and 16) and Lemonis had 2(19 and 21). When you space it out 25 years it looks really good. But when you look at the numbers it's still impressive, just not as impressive:

14: 18-12 (also: 18 conference wins and we didn't host. Something to monitor)
15: 8-22
16: 21-9
17: 17-13
18: 15-15
19: 20-10
21: 20-10
22: 9-21
23: 9-21

So we're right about on average for what we've been winning if you take out Cohen's bad year and Lemonis 2 bad years.

Well, I guess if you think the State Standard should be based on the SEC Regular Season Record you have a minor point. Now a days when an SEC team is a) guaranteed a Regional berth and b) often locked up a regional host, many of them don't give a rip about the SEC tourney either. I believe State got 7 inning run ruled in both their most recent SEC tourney games, yet won the NC that same year. Now how many Regionals had State played in from 1990 to 2021? How many were as a Host? How many were as a 2 seed or higher? There is you "Standard". National perception of State is as a very Solid to High end program!

[RockyDog]

Well, I guess if you think the State Standard should be based on the SEC Regular Season Record you have a minor point. Now a days when an SEC team is a) guaranteed a Regional berth and b) often locked up a regional host, many of them don't give a rip about the SEC tourney either. I believe State got 7 inning run ruled in both their most recent SEC tourney games, yet won the NC that same year. Now how many Regionals had State played in from 1990 to 2021? How many were as a Host? How many were as a 2 seed or higher? There is you "Standard". National perception of State is as a very Solid to High end program!

As is the national perception of College World Series Title Winning Head Coach Christoph Lemons. So get over your hatred of him.. He's here to stay!!

However, it is funny how guys like you keep shifting the standard. So now, regular season doesn't matter yet teams like TN, Florida, Vandy etc are consistently at the top of the SEC AND have the same or better success in regional play. So which is it? MSU can't be the SEC's best when yall State standard folk arbitrarily leave out part of baseball history.

[Pancho]

I'm all with you. The deal with Lemo to me is he was handed the keys to a Jet and has turned it into a twin engine cessna

[Coach34]

Well, I guess if you think the State Standard should be based on the SEC Regular Season Record you have a minor point. Now a days when an SEC team is a) guaranteed a Regional berth and b) often locked up a regional host, many of them don't give a rip about the SEC tourney either. I believe State got 7 inning run ruled in both their most recent SEC tourney games, yet won the NC that same year. Now how many Regionals had State played in from 1990 to 2021? How many were as a Host? How many were as a 2 seed or higher? There is you "Standard". National perception of State is as a very Solid to High end program!

Well, we had posters around here earlier in the season talking about the "State standard" this season and how Lemon wasnt living up to it this year- sooooooo you have to assume they were including the regular season. Now I see you guys have moved the goalposts again. It's ok. I'll keep kicking the ball thru them

[Coach34]

I'm all with you. The deal with Lemo to me is he was handed the keys to a Jet and has turned it into a twin engine cessna

his cessna has something Ron Polk/John Cohen and rest will never have- a National Championship

[Santiago]

I thought that was interesting stat when I read it, but it's a bit of a cherry picked stat. All 4 times have come in the last 10 years. Cohen had 2(14 and 16) and Lemonis had 2(19 and 21). When you space it out 25 years it looks really good. But when you look at the numbers it's still impressive, just not as impressive:

14: 18-12 (also: 18 conference wins and we didn't host. Something to monitor)
15: 8-22
16: 21-9
17: 17-13
18: 15-15
19: 20-10
21: 20-10
22: 9-21
23: 9-21

So we're right about on average for what we've been winning if you take out Cohen's bad year and Lemonis 2 bad years.

I would have never guessed the OP would include cherry picked stats ***
Good stuff SVSteve, always appreciate your measured approach.

[RockyDog]

I'm all with you. The deal with Lemo to me is he was handed the keys to a Jet and has turned it into a twin engine cessna

U r serious? Lemons has TWO of MSU's SIX total 50 win seasons. And a NATTY. . I mean by god, Cohen had 3 LOSING seasons out of his 8 total. How exactly has Lemons driven the program into the ditch? Some of yall are crazy delusional.

[Coach34]

I would have never guessed the OP would include cherry picked stats ***
Good stuff SVSteve, always appreciate your measured approach.

whether my post had cherries on it or not- its still correct

[CaptainObvious]

As is the national perception of College World Series Title Winning Head Coach Christoph Lemons. So get over your hatred of him.. He's here to stay!!

However, it is funny how guys like you keep shifting the standard. So now, regular season doesn't matter yet teams like TN, Florida, Vandy etc are consistently at the top of the SEC AND have the same or better success in regional play. So which is it? MSU can't be the SEC's best when yall State standard folk arbitrarily leave out part of baseball history.
I don't "hate" anyone. I just will not "forgive" season 22-23 which were coached by Lemonis. I don't think Cohen was a very good coach either. And Polk should have never been hired the second time around. But I don't hate them. I "LOVE" MSU. The University and the Athletics programs are bigger than any Coach, especially one who can't recruit in the new era of college athletics! But let's see what kind of class Lemonis brings in after He leads this year's team to the second National Championship.

[StarkVegasSteve]

whether my post had cherries on it or not- its still correct

I actually wasn't trying to disprove you. I was just adding context to it. I think it shows how impressive Lemonis has been. He's only been here 6 years, 5 conference season, and may be about to do something that no other State coach has done

[QuadrupleOption]

"State Standard" has always been based in the post-season to me. Our 2018 team is a sterling example of that. A .500 conference record that leads to a CWS appearance? Yeah I'll take that.

[Commercecomet24]

"State Standard" has always been based in the post-season to me. Our 2018 team is a sterling example of that. A .500 conference record that leads to a CWS appearance? Yeah I'll take that.

Agree 100% and it's the way I've always looked at it. I bet more people on here can name the years and how many cws we've been too as opposed to conference championships

[Coach34]

I agree completely that it’s about the overall season. That’s why I couldn’t understand the State standard posts halfway thru the season. I guess I shouldn’t be surprised considering Elitedawgs has fired Lemon 3 times this season already

[confucius say]

He had two elite years.
He then drove it in the ditch and had two horrible years.
He's now pulled it out of the ditch and has a chance to have anywhere from an average to elite year.
That's where we are.

Some people are so tired to their narrative, on both sides of the argument, that they won't admit that.

[StateDawg44]

He had two elite years.
He then drove it in the ditch and had two horrible years.
He's now pulled it out of the ditch and has a chance to have anywhere from an average to elite year.
That's where we are.

Some people are so tired to their narrative, on both sides of the argument, that they won't admit that.

I fully admit that I am currently not a fan of Lemo and still hold that opinion even after the unexpected success of this year's team.

He has had a big turnaround this year, which is good, so he and this team deserve big kudos (Thanks Justin). But, he still has a long way to go to earn my overall (insignificant) opinion of him back to an acceptable coach. This offseason could help immensely with that.

In all honesty though, it's going to be difficult for me to have full, absolute confidence in him even for the next few seasons. I could certainly cut him some slack if he makes some solid moves with recruiting and in the portal and a new offensive philosophy than what we currently have.

[confucius say]

I fully admit that I am currently not a fan of Lemo and still hold that opinion even after the unexpected success of this year's team.

He has had a big turnaround this year, which is good, so he and this team deserve big kudos (Thanks Justin). But, he still has a long way to go to earn my overall (insignificant) opinion of him back to an acceptable coach. This offseason could help immensely with that.

In all honesty though, it's going to be difficult for me to have full, absolute confidence in him even for the next few seasons. I could certainly cut him some slack if he makes some solid moves with recruiting and in the portal and a new offensive philosophy than what we currently have.

Do the results of this season matter in your assessment? What if we host? Or make a super? Or make Omaha?

[StateDawg44]

Do the results of this season matter in your assessment? What if we host? Or make a super? Or make Omaha?

Of course. I will be happy for sure and he deserves major recognition for that but a part of me still expects next year to be very rough. Like the previous two years. Difference is I expect our pitching to be better than the previous two years if we hold on to Parker.

He could make up more ground (for me) in the offseason and prove that he can build on the momentum he has created and that would go further for me.

I don't see Omaha in our future this year with our bullpen woes. But, this team has certainly surprised me several times this year. I'd love to be wrong though.

Again, this is just my opinion and I do feel like I am not giving him as much slack as maybe I should after this year so far but it's just where I am with him for now.

This season has shown me that maybe he's not as bad as I believed going into it. But he still needs to take several steps forward to get to my (again insignificant) opinion of him back to believing in him getting us back to Omaha.

[Commercecomet24]

Of course. I will be happy for sure and he deserves major recognition for that but a part of me still expects next year to be very rough. Like the previous two years. Difference is I expect our pitching to be better than the previous two years if we hold on to Parker.

He could make up more ground (for me) in the offseason and prove that he can build on the momentum he has created and that would go further for me.

I don't see Omaha in our future this year with our bullpen woes. But, this team has certainly surprised me several times this year. I'd love to be wrong though.

Again, this is just my opinion and I do feel like I am not giving him as much slack as maybe I should after this year so far but it's just where I am with him for now.

This season has shown me that maybe he's not as bad as I believed going into it. But he still needs to take several steps forward to get to my (again insignificant) opinion of him back to believing in him getting us back to Omaha.

I can respect this post.

[Brobi-wan]

I can see a super regional, but I don’t see Omaha either. The biggest issue is pitching depth and we just don’t have it. I think we are on the edge of being a great team, but with the portal losing talent this year doesn’t necessarily mean lacking talent next year.

I think our hitting coach may need to change, but he’s been serviceable enough to keep his job. If he we had a quality BP we probably wouldn’t be complaining about hitting coaches. It seems like there’s been multiple games where we should’ve scored enough to win but lost because of a pitcher meltdown.

[QuadrupleOption]

He had two elite years.
He then drove it in the ditch and had two horrible years.
He's now pulled it out of the ditch and has a chance to have anywhere from an average to elite year.
That's where we are.

Some people are so tired to their narrative, on both sides of the argument, that they won't admit that.

If we win the series this weekend we will stand at 17-13 or 18-12 in conference play. That's a GOOD year for MSU. Not elite, but still good. This is a really tough league.

[StateDawg44]

I can see a super regional, but I don’t see Omaha either. The biggest issue is pitching depth and we just don’t have it. I think we are on the edge of being a great team, but with the portal losing talent this year doesn’t necessarily mean lacking talent next year.

I think our hitting coach may need to change, but he’s been serviceable enough to keep his job. If he we had a quality BP we probably wouldn’t be complaining about hitting coaches. It seems like there’s been multiple games where we should’ve scored enough to win but lost because of a pitcher meltdown.

I agree with this. I also agree with a new hitting coach and him being serviceable. But just being serviceable doesn't get us to that next level. Now who that replacement should be I have no clue.

I also agree a deeper and more dependable BP would mask some of that lack of production behind the plate. We just seem to strand so many runners and seem to wait until 2 strikes before we start battling.

Lemonis has the opportunity to shut the haters up with a good offseason. He's done what he needed this season. Or at least make them look foolish and like they are just unreasonable and unwilling to accept they might be wrong. He must prove that he can evaluate and develop and keep this year's momentum going. But, if he flops again after even just hosting a regional or making a super and we finish at the bottom or even bottom four of SEC I don't think he will do himself any favors or cool his seat off at all.

[RockyDog]

If we win the series this weekend we will stand at 17-13 or 18-12 in conference play. That's a GOOD year for MSU. Not elite, but still good. This is a really tough league.

No, that's an above average finish for a program that has historically averaged finishing between 6th and 7th in the league over the last 30 or so years. The last 2 ELITE finishes in the league were turned in by one Chris Lemons at 20-10.

Cohen had a 21-9 and an 18-12.

Whether the bar was set low due to the previous 2 seasons or not, 17 or 18 wins by THIS team that has so many holes outside of 2 good hitters and 2 good starting pitchers is an exceptional job.

[Brobi-wan]

I agree with this. I also agree with a new hitting coach and him being serviceable. But just being serviceable doesn't get us to that next level. Now who that replacement should be I have no clue.

I also agree a deeper and more dependable BP would mask some of that lack of production behind the plate. We just seem to strand so many runners and seem to wait until 2 strikes before we start battling.

Lemonis has the opportunity to shut the haters up with a good offseason. He's done what he needed this season. Or at least make them look foolish and like they are just unreasonable and unwilling to accept they might be wrong. He must prove that he can evaluate and develop and keep this year's momentum going. But, if he flops again after even just hosting a regional or making a super and we finish at the bottom or even bottom four of SEC I don't think he will do himself any favors or cool his seat off at all.

I completely agree. That Mizz freshman had as many strikeouts as DJ. That’s a bad look.

[StateDawg44]

No, that's an above average finish for a program that has historically averaged finishing between 6th and 7th in the league over the last 30 or so years. The last 2 ELITE finishes in the league were turned in by one Chris Lemons at 20-10.

Cohen had a 21-9 and an 18-12.

Whether the bar was set low due to the previous 2 seasons or not, 17 or 18 wins by THIS team that has so many holes outside of 2 good hitters and 2 good starting pitchers is an exceptional job.

Yes he's done fairly well this year but we shouldn't just pretend like everything is back in order.

We shouldn't have "so many holes". He's also left a lot to be desired with some of the bad losses we've managed to pull off.

Pulliam has emerged as a glimmer of hope from a young player. But there aren't many "next men up" at all on this team. THAT is one of the main reasons I just can't 100% buy in again and am still in wait and see.

[Pinto]

Who are the two good hitters?


No, that's an above average finish for a program that has historically averaged finishing between 6th and 7th in the league over the last 30 or so years. The last 2 ELITE finishes in the league were turned in by one Chris Lemons at 20-10.

Cohen had a 21-9 and an 18-12.

Whether the bar was set low due to the previous 2 seasons or not, 17 or 18 wins by THIS team that has so many holes outside of 2 good hitters and 2 good starting pitchers is an exceptional job.

[Santiago]

Yes he's done fairly well this year but we shouldn't just pretend like everything is back in order.

We shouldn't have "so many holes". He's also left a lot to be desired with some of the bad losses we've managed to pull off.

Pulliam has emerged as a glimmer of hope from a young player. But there aren't many "next men up" at all on this team. THAT is one of the main reasons I just can't 100% buy in again and am still in wait and see.

That is my take on it all as well. Happy for this team this year, and excited to see us try to get in a super regional.
IF Mershon returns to MSU , instead of MLB or to SC, then that is a nice top of the lineup with Chance, Mershon, Pulliam. That will put some real pressure on defenses . We need some pop in the lineup and hoping the portal is good to us.

[Coach34]

We have some solid pieces returning but power should be a top priority in the portal

[confucius say]

If we win the series this weekend we will stand at 17-13 or 18-12 in conference play. That's a GOOD year for MSU. Not elite, but still good. This is a really tough league.

What will determine where it falls on the average to elite scale is the postseason.

[Saltydog]

Conversely during that time span (25 years) we've had 6 seasons where we've had 9 wins or less. Lemonis has two of them during his 5 years in SEC play (didn't play any SEC games in 2020). And unless we have a massive portal haul next could be horrible.

2008 - Polk II (9-21)
2009 - Cohen (9-20)
2010 - Cohen (6-24)
2015 - Cohen (8-22)
2022 - Lemonis (9-21)
2023 - Lemonis (9-21)

[StateDawg44]

What will determine where it falls on the average to elite scale is the postseason.

Lots to prove to be an elite performance. Choke jobs like today are the exact reason it?s not considered an elite season.

[parabrave]

Well Robbie talks about it on his YT channel

https://youtu.be/__HCUeqgZ_M?t=509

[Coursesuper]

Almost everything in this tread missed the actual point. We don?t have a standard that most of you think we do. What we actually have is an aspiration that we want to achieve. Let?s get that straight.