Chris Lemonis Thoughts

[Todd4State]

Having seen how things have played out here is what I think essentially happened with Lemonis.

We got him from Indiana which has ZERO expectations in baseball. He has a winning season there he's great. No one is paying attention. Make a regional and the 100 fans that do care are ecstatic. When does basketball season start? Also, he had Kyle Bunn has his pitching coach so he didn't have Foxhall there.

He gets the MSU job. And really you can't ask for a better situation. Veteran team coming off of an Omaha appearance with a couple of wins in the CWS with several future first round picks on the roster in addition to guys like Mangum, TA, MacNamee. In other words- screwing it up would be impressive. So, the team wins and keeps on rolling. But the "bad" thing about that is I think it may have lulled Lemonis into a false sense of security. I don't think he realized the level of detail that fans demand at MSU and things that were happening at times were overlooked because TA would win the game in the 9th or Landon Sims would come in for a struggling pitcher and put the fire out and then strike out the side in the 9th.

Then the MSU icons left for the pros and Foxhall fell off of a cliff at the same time. Lemonis got on the hot seat, but I think he has gradually learned about what the expectations that fans have here are. The first big move he made was firing Foxhall midseason and then getting Parker. He also corrected the defense and while yes, the improved pitching is part of that a lot of it is a new emphasis on that. But we now see issues with baserunning and our hitting approach for most of the year has been poor until the past three weeks.

Now that he is almost definitely coming back for 2025 I'm going to be curious to see if Lemonis will take the lessons that he has learned the past few years and become an even better coach.

[StateDawg44]

Having seen how things have played out here is what I think essentially happened with Lemonis.

We got him from Indiana which has ZERO expectations in baseball. He has a winning season there he's great. No one is paying attention. Make a regional and the 100 fans that do care are ecstatic. When does basketball season start? Also, he had Kyle Bunn has his pitching coach so he didn't have Foxhall there.

He gets the MSU job. And really you can't ask for a better situation. Veteran team coming off of an Omaha appearance with a couple of wins in the CWS with several future first round picks on the roster in addition to guys like Mangum, TA, MacNamee. In other words- screwing it up would be impressive. So, the team wins and keeps on rolling. But the "bad" thing about that is I think it may have lulled Lemonis into a false sense of security. I don't think he realized the level of detail that fans demand at MSU and things that were happening at times were overlooked because TA would win the game in the 9th or Landon Sims would come in for a struggling pitcher and put the fire out and then strike out the side in the 9th.

Then the MSU icons left for the pros and Foxhall fell off of a cliff at the same time. Lemonis got on the hot seat, but I think he has gradually learned about what the expectations that fans have here are. The first big move he made was firing Foxhall midseason and then getting Parker. He also corrected the defense and while yes, the improved pitching is part of that a lot of it is a new emphasis on that. But we now see issues with baserunning and our hitting approach for most of the year has been poor until the past three weeks.

Now that he is almost definitely coming back for 2025 I'm going to be curious to see if Lemonis will take the lessons that he has learned the past few years and become an even better coach.

Sounds like an unqualified coach that we are paying to learn as he goes (still) instead of an elite coach that could?ve possibly kept the train rolling at a high level instead of derailing it for two years.

Yeah he won a championship but I probably could?ve coached that team to a natty.

[Leeshouldveflanked]

I kinda got the impression no Elite coach wanted to work for Cohen is why we have Lemonis.

[Santiago]

Having seen how things have played out here is what I think essentially happened with Lemonis.

We got him from Indiana which has ZERO expectations in baseball. He has a winning season there he's great. No one is paying attention. Make a regional and the 100 fans that do care are ecstatic. When does basketball season start? Also, he had Kyle Bunn has his pitching coach so he didn't have Foxhall there.

He gets the MSU job. And really you can't ask for a better situation. Veteran team coming off of an Omaha appearance with a couple of wins in the CWS with several future first round picks on the roster in addition to guys like Mangum, TA, MacNamee. In other words- screwing it up would be impressive. So, the team wins and keeps on rolling. But the "bad" thing about that is I think it may have lulled Lemonis into a false sense of security. I don't think he realized the level of detail that fans demand at MSU and things that were happening at times were overlooked because TA would win the game in the 9th or Landon Sims would come in for a struggling pitcher and put the fire out and then strike out the side in the 9th.

Then the MSU icons left for the pros and Foxhall fell off of a cliff at the same time. Lemonis got on the hot seat, but I think he has gradually learned about what the expectations that fans have here are. The first big move he made was firing Foxhall midseason and then getting Parker. He also corrected the defense and while yes, the improved pitching is part of that a lot of it is a new emphasis on that. But we now see issues with baserunning and our hitting approach for most of the year has been poor until the past three weeks.

Now that he is almost definitely coming back for 2025 I'm going to be curious to see if Lemonis will take the lessons that he has learned the past few years and become an even better coach.

I have not looked up last years errors by position, but would guess it was 3B and 1B having more than normal. Did he improve the defense or just get a 3B and Hines improved?
For 2025 I am concerned if he can replace all we are losing. Hines alone has won us games in the SEC recently. Without his hot streak we are a different team.

[MaroonFlounder]

Next year could be another disaster rebuild with everything we lose. Yes, even with a decent portal haul.

I'm not looking forward to it.

[viverlibre]

Yeah he won a championship but I probably could?ve coached that team to a natty.

Uh, Polk did much less with more.

[maroonmania]

Next year could be another disaster rebuild with everything we lose. Yes, even with a decent portal haul.

I'm not looking forward to it.

Parker has saved Lemonis for this season and shown that he can do more with less on the pitching staff. Other than Cijntje, I don't think we have any high draft prospects on this staff that are actually pitching. Amazing what he has done considering no Dohm and no Loftin. The offense, until recently, actually hasn't been as good as I thought it would be coming into the year. We are very inconsistent and often seem to be into the 6th or 7th inning before the offense does anything especially in midweek games (the Central Ark game was exhibit A). Coming into this season, if you had told me what kind of pitching we were going to get as a team, I would have thought we would have been better than we are because I had a lot of confidence in our offense. Next year is going to be a real test for Lemonis because he has never had to rely on getting multiple impact players out of the portal but he WILL have to rely on that for next year. Our lineup will be mostly gone next year and I'm still not totally sold on Gotro as a top line hitting coach. If we have a top half of the SEC type team next year then I will be pretty impressed and will feel confident in Lemonis going forward but I will want to see it first. This year is a true up cycle year talent wise because we don't always have guys like DJ and Hines in the middle of our lineup. I'm not sure what we will have in the lineup next year.

[Pancho]

I agree, Todd and this improved year has earned him several more years of on the job training. He is a lucky guy.

[StateDawg44]

Uh, Polk did much less with more.

Uh, what does that have to do with anything?

[basedog]

Having seen how things have played out here is what I think essentially happened with Lemonis.

We got him from Indiana which has ZERO expectations in baseball. He has a winning season there he's great. No one is paying attention. Make a regional and the 100 fans that do care are ecstatic. When does basketball season start? Also, he had Kyle Bunn has his pitching coach so he didn't have Foxhall there.

He gets the MSU job. And really you can't ask for a better situation. Veteran team coming off of an Omaha appearance with a couple of wins in the CWS with several future first round picks on the roster in addition to guys like Mangum, TA, MacNamee. In other words- screwing it up would be impressive. So, the team wins and keeps on rolling. But the "bad" thing about that is I think it may have lulled Lemonis into a false sense of security. I don't think he realized the level of detail that fans demand at MSU and things that were happening at times were overlooked because TA would win the game in the 9th or Landon Sims would come in for a struggling pitcher and put the fire out and then strike out the side in the 9th.

Then the MSU icons left for the pros and Foxhall fell off of a cliff at the same time. Lemonis got on the hot seat, but I think he has gradually learned about what the expectations that fans have here are. The first big move he made was firing Foxhall midseason and then getting Parker. He also corrected the defense and while yes, the improved pitching is part of that a lot of it is a new emphasis on that. But we now see issues with baserunning and our hitting approach for most of the year has been poor until the past three weeks.

Now that he is almost definitely coming back for 2025 I'm going to be curious to see if Lemonis will take the lessons that he has learned the past few years and become an even better coach.

You can add disconnect with the players. Work ethics lacking. Good thoughts Todd, it's called plain laziness. But things are getting better and we still need some improvements.

Btw, the weekend series should tell us how we really stack up in the coming weeks. I'm thinking it should be close games, I do think the first two will and the third may be iffy.
Just win!

[BrunswickDawg]

I have not looked up last years errors by position, but would guess it was 3B and 1B having more than normal. Did he improve the defense or just get a 3B and Hines improved?
For 2025 I am concerned if he can replace all we are losing. Hines alone has won us games in the SEC recently. Without his hot streak we are a different team.

Hines didn't play First last year. It was Forsythe (15) and Alford (13) mainly. Highfill also had 19 passed balls- which don't count as errors, but definitely negatively impacted games.
Our worst players have 5 errors each currently (Cupp and Kohler).

[BrunswickDawg]

You can add disconnect with the players. Work ethics lacking. Good thoughts Todd, it's called plain laziness. But things are getting better and we still need some improvements.

Btw, the weekend series should tell us how we really stack up in the coming weeks. I'm thinking it should be close games, I do think the first two will and the third may be iffy.
Just win!

I look at this as being similar to football - if you haven't worked in the SEC you are not prepared for the work and intensity needed to succeed. As dumb as it is - "It just means more" is true.

[viverlibre]

Uh, what does that have to do with anything?

He's making is sound like winning a natty is easy. We've have two head coaches who have a reputation as being great, but neither won a natty (Polk didn't even sniff one), in-spite of having overwhelming support, resources and talent.

[Coursesuper]

You can add disconnect with the players. Work ethics lacking. Good thoughts Todd, it's called plain laziness. But things are getting better and we still need some improvements.

Btw, the weekend series should tell us how we really stack up in the coming weeks. I'm thinking it should be close games, I do think the first two will and the third may be iffy.
Just win!

All this is true. But the constant change we had at the HC position over four years defiantly had a detrimental affect on the program. You have to take that into count as you look at the big picture.

[Santiago]

I kinda got the impression no Elite coach wanted to work for Cohen is why we have Lemonis.

Seeing how fast Schloss has built A&M , and from both recruiting and portal, to win now.
We seem to have to explain Lemonis to ourselves to reason it out. I want the guy to win, but he seems to not be on the level of some others.

I think you are right on Cohen.

[tcdog70]

I still think he needs to move on. Too many half-ass plays. sorry baserunning-bad coaching decisions. we have the worst third base Coach in history. lemonis keeps putting Him out there. Should have had a pitcher ready yesterday but waited till we were deep in the hole. only get 18 outs and we gave 2 away because of poor execution.

[StarkVegasSteve]

Chris is a great guy. I got to know him very well from 2019-2021. I can just tell you, from what I observed, everyone from top down in our program got drunk off the National Championship. Our coaches got lax, didn't seem as focused, Lemonis is having to do media all over, and you could just see it all coming. And I don't think any of it was directly Lemonis' fault. I don't think anyone could have stopped it. As we're seeing with LSU and OM both, the national championship hangover is something fierce. All that trophy does is just paint a target on your back for the next year. You are everyone's Super Bowl from February-May.

[basedog]

All this is true. But the constant change we had at the HC position over four years defiantly had a detrimental affect on the program. You have to take that into count as you look at the big picture.

I don't disagree, but he went to sleep.

[Santiago]

Chris is a great guy. I got to know him very well from 2019-2021. I can just tell you, from what I observed, everyone from top down in our program got drunk off the National Championship. Our coaches got lax, didn't seem as focused, Lemonis is having to do media all over, and you could just see it all coming. And I don't think any of it was directly Lemonis' fault. I don't think anyone could have stopped it. As we're seeing with LSU and OM both, the national championship hangover is something fierce. All that trophy does is just paint a target on your back for the next year. You are everyone's Super Bowl from February-May.

this.
LSU seems to have lost a ton off that championship team, but later in this season are on a win streak.
We had 2 seasons of horrible baseball.
This year, lately things have fallen right for Lemonis, from (2) 7 inning games with Auburn, to beating Bama with almost half their starters missing, or playing out of position. Alot of the recent wins involved Hines. We lose alot after this season.

What are your thoughts on our rebuild for next season?

[Tbonewannabe]

Seeing how fast Schloss has built A&M , and from both recruiting and portal, to win now.
We seem to have to explain Lemonis to ourselves to reason it out. I want the guy to win, but he seems to not be on the level of some others.

I think you are right on Cohen.

I think Schloss wins in 21 and has us a lot better in 22. Not sure what happened but at least we got the Natty. Lemonis can prove something getting to a Super. This is his team now without all the players gifted to him.

I like the guy but I am still not 100% sold on him. He was just good at Indiana, took over a good program and just maintained.

[Santiago]

I think Schloss wins in 21 and has us a lot better in 22. Not sure what happened but at least we got the Natty. Lemonis can prove something getting to a Super. This is his team now without all the players gifted to him.

I like the guy but I am still not 100% sold on him. He was just good at Indiana, took over a good program and just maintained.

agree, and in a Big10 conference that most of those teams really don't care about baseball. He did not have other teams hiring better coaches and recruiting in a high level.

[AlSwearengen]

next season is going to be interesting. The usual suspects are going to outbid us in the portal so we are going to have to hope that Parker's performance gets the attention of some top pitchers that are willing to take less money for possibly better development. Aside from that, we need some really good evaluation and grab some guys from smaller schools that can make the jump to the SEC.

As far as this season goes, hopefully Kohler is coming around. That will lengthen the lineup some and help offensively. I saw someone mention that he is just now getting healthy, I guess from that shoulder injury in the first game.

Baserunning, WTF is all I can say. There is a disconnect somewhere that is allowing this to continue. I imagine that "aggresive" is being talked about alot to try to make up for some offensive deficiencies, but things are out of hand. We are like a bunch of 6 year olds just running around with our asses on fire. We had a chance to get to the pitcher yesterday before he got into a groove with that curveball and got thrown out at 3B by alot. Would have had two on with Hines coming up and the pitcher wasn't sharp at the time. Ridiculous

[viverlibre]

next season is going to be interesting. The usual suspects are going to outbid us in the portal so we are going to have to hope that Parker's performance gets the attention of some top pitchers that are willing to take less money for possibly better development. Aside from that, we need some really good evaluation and grab some guys from smaller schools that can make the jump to the SEC.

As far as this season goes, hopefully Kohler is coming around. That will lengthen the lineup some and help offensively. I saw someone mention that he is just now getting healthy, I guess from that shoulder injury in the first game.

Baserunning, WTF is all I can say. There is a disconnect somewhere that is allowing this to continue. I imagine that "aggresive" is being talked about alot to try to make up for some offensive deficiencies, but things are out of hand. We are like a bunch of 6 year olds just running around with our asses on fire. We had a chance to get to the pitcher yesterday before he got into a groove with that curveball and got thrown out at 3B by alot. Would have had two on with Hines coming up and the pitcher wasn't sharp at the time. Ridiculous

I have no idea about NIL, but who all are we going to be outbid by? LSU, Ark, TAMU, TX?

[Leroy Jenkins]

Parker is a very good coach but I don't understand people saying Parker has "done more with less" Parker said before the season started this was the most pitching talent he had ever had. The way I see it this year's pitching results are what they should have always been, he hasn't overachieved, it just feels that way because we were sooooo bad. He's gotten us back on track.

I have zero issues with Parker he's done a good job. Dohm hurt, Loftin hurt, Holcombe is MIA. Thats probably 3 of the top 5 arms gone.

[Coach34]

I kinda got the impression no Elite coach wanted to work for Cohen is why we have Lemonis.

No- this was the excuse some of our baseball fans make because they were naive enough to think we were going to pull some top flight HC to come to StarkVegas. Thats just not going to happen no matter who the AD is

[Santiago]

I have no idea about NIL, but who all are we going to be outbid by? LSU, Ark, TAMU, TX?

Florida kids now have FSU as an option with a proven winning season and turnaround, and probably go there for less, if they grew up FSU or Gator fans.
TX kids will stay in TX mostly, so the Baylor, TCU, TX Tech teams will pull in portal if they want.
TN is going to outbid if Vitello wants a kid.

Bama coach just knows how to evaluate to me better than Lemonis. More of a compliment to that coach at Maryland and now Bama, but he can evaluate talent. He will pull portal players we may skip on.
That shortstop for Bama - he was headed I think to TCU until the Bama coach was hired, and he turned him to Bama.

Wake will get pitchers.
Clemson will get players for their coach.

The list goes on.

[StateDawg44]

No- this was the excuse some of our baseball fans make because they were naive enough to think we were going to pull some top flight HC to come to StarkVegas. Thats just not going to happen no matter who the AD is

Let's hear why you think this.

[StarkVegasSteve]

I have no idea about NIL, but who all are we going to be outbid by? LSU, Ark, TAMU, TX?

That's the list. The only problem is that those teams are all bidding for the same 10-15 arms. And out of those 10-15 arms, MAYBE 4 can be weekend starters for you. It's kind of like starting QBs going into the football portal, yes we are one of the big boys when it comes to baseball, but there's only 15-20 QBs out there that can make you a better team and there's 20-25 teams going for the same QBs.

[StateDawg44]

He's making is sound like winning a natty is easy. We've have two head coaches who have a reputation as being great, but neither won a natty (Polk didn't even sniff one), in-spite of having overwhelming support, resources and talent.

No. I made it sound like that team was built to win one with or without Lemonis. It's obviously not easy to win a Natty.

Mike Martin was considered great. He never won one. DVH is considered great. He hasn't won one either.

Lemonis isn't great.

[Coursesuper]

I don't disagree, but he went to sleep.

Can't disagree with you on that.

[Santiago]

That's the list. The only problem is that those teams are all bidding for the same 10-15 arms. And out of those 10-15 arms, MAYBE 4 can be weekend starters for you. It's kind of like starting QBs going into the football portal, yes we are one of the big boys when it comes to baseball, but there's only 15-20 QBs out there that can make you a better team and there's 20-25 teams going for the same QBs.

TN
FSU
TX Tech, Baylor, TCU will keep TX kids in portal from smaller schools.
Clemson(maybe)
Wake (pitchers , regardless of NIL)
A few others.

[Coach34]

I have not looked up last years errors by position, but would guess it was 3B and 1B having more than normal. Did he improve the defense or just get a 3B and Hines improved?
For 2025 I am concerned if he can replace all we are losing. Hines alone has won us games in the SEC recently. Without his hot streak we are a different team.

We have one of the top defenses in the country.

Hines has a .987
Dirtbag is a .993- thats unreal as a SS. For comparision- Foreskin was an .884 last year
Ledbetter had 6 errors in CF last year- Hugesak has one
Kohler has been really good all year- he just had a bad game yesterday. He is still fielding .963

[StarkVegasSteve]

Let's hear why you think this.

I'm not C34, but I'll take a crack at it. Our job can be a great job, but it also comes with damn near unrealistic expectations. I mean we're wanting to fire a guy two years removed from winning a national championship. And hell, we damn near fired Cohen after the 15 season and he was two years removed from the national championship series and one year removed from a Regional final. Our fans have LSU like expectations with an eight of the success. A lot of the top flight HCs are making 750-1.2 and are not constantly under pressure to win a national championship or their season is a failure. Why would you want to come here, bring all that stress on you and your family, and only get a maybe 500K raise. Baseball coaches are not like football and basketball. They don't do a whole lot of moving around. Once they're established, they tend to stay. You have to take a chance on either a P5 hitting/pitching coach, like Tenn did with Vitello or you have to hire an up and comer like a Lemonis or a Rob Vaughn

[Santiago]

We have one of the top defenses in the country.

Hines has a .987
Dirtbag is a .993- thats unreal as a SS. For comparision- Foreskin was an .884 last year
Ledbetter had 6 errors in CF last year- Hugesak has one
Kohler has been really good all year- he just had a bad game yesterday. He is still fielding .963

Hines last year is what I was asking compared to this year. seems he improved.
So did Lemonis coach up the defense or just replace the guys making errors with a different player? 3B and CF.

[BrunswickDawg]

Let's hear why you think this.

Well, the list of top flight HC in any sport that have chosen to come to MSU is pretty short.
The list of "sitting", elite coaches is even shorter.

[Santiago]

I'm not C34, but I'll take a crack at it. Our job can be a great job, but it also comes with damn near unrealistic expectations. I mean we're wanting to fire a guy two years removed from winning a national championship. And hell, we damn near fired Cohen after the 15 season and he was two years removed from the national championship series and one year removed from a Regional final. Our fans have LSU like expectations with an eight of the success. A lot of the top flight HCs are making 750-1.2 and are not constantly under pressure to win a national championship or their season is a failure. Why would you want to come here, bring all that stress on you and your family, and only get a maybe 500K raise. Baseball coaches are not like football and basketball. They don't do a whole lot of moving around. Once they're established, they tend to stay. You have to take a chance on either a P5 hitting/pitching coach, like Tenn did with Vitello or you have to hire an up and comer like a Lemonis or a Rob Vaughn

Vaughn to me builtup a Maryland team moreso than Lemonis just taking over an Indiana team already built.
Vaughn was a heck of a hire by Greg Byrne.

[Santiago]

I'm not C34, but I'll take a crack at it. Our job can be a great job, but it also comes with damn near unrealistic expectations. I mean we're wanting to fire a guy two years removed from winning a national championship. And hell, we damn near fired Cohen after the 15 season and he was two years removed from the national championship series and one year removed from a Regional final. Our fans have LSU like expectations with an eight of the success. A lot of the top flight HCs are making 750-1.2 and are not constantly under pressure to win a national championship or their season is a failure. Why would you want to come here, bring all that stress on you and your family, and only get a maybe 500K raise. Baseball coaches are not like football and basketball. They don't do a whole lot of moving around. Once they're established, they tend to stay. You have to take a chance on either a P5 hitting/pitching coach, like Tenn did with Vitello or you have to hire an up and comer like a Lemonis or a Rob Vaughn

I appreciate your insight. This makes me also wonder, if our fan base, after tasting the NC game in 2013, we pushed and expected to get back and try to win even more, and it propelled both the fans and Cohen with a driven hunger to get it. What if we let up and said, that should be pretty good for another decade.
I get there is a balance eeded, but we love baseball at MSU more than any team I have seen in college. I like that we have multiple threads about winning in baseball, and having pros and cons

[Coach34]

Let's hear why you think this.

Top baseball coaches rarely leave for other programs. There is no advantage to coaching in StarkVegas over other top programs. And those coaches with younger kids dont really care to send their kids to Starkville HS. Wives dont really care to move to StarkVegas or Mississippi in general. Even Schloss leaving TCU was partially started by his divorce and things going on off the field.

Corbin, Sully, Bunko, McDonnell, Van Horn, Leggett (Clemson), O'Conner (Virginia), Fox (NC), and those guys get to their place and stay 20 years.
Manieri would still be at LSU if he hadnt been forced out
Vitello isnt leaving Tennessee. He's entrenched now and they are building him what he wants
Jarrett is home now at Fla St- he plans to retire there
Johnson has the best job in the country- he aint leaving
Now that Clown has built up Kentucky and Butch has Auburn going (altho this year has been awful)- them leaving where they are would be probably be 50/50

[StateDawg44]

Top baseball coaches rarely leave for other programs. There is no advantage to coaching in StarkVegas over other top programs. And those coaches with younger kids dont really care to send their kids to Starkville HS. Wives dont really care to move to StarkVegas or Mississippi in general. Even Schloss leaving TCU was partially started by his divorce and things going on off the field.

Corbin, Sully, Bunko, McDonnell, Van Horn, Leggett (Clemson), O'Conner (Virginia), Fox (NC), and those guys get to their place and stay 20 years.
Manieri would still be at LSU if he hadnt been forced out
Vitello isnt leaving Tennessee. He's entrenched now and they are building him what he wants
Jarrett is home now at Fla St- he plans to retire there
Johnson has the best job in the country- he aint leaving
Now that Clown has built up Kentucky and Butch has Auburn going (altho this year has been awful)- them leaving where they are would be probably be 50/50

I wouldn't expect to pluck any on your list here except maybe Butch or Mingione. Most of those are a pipe dream and unrealistic.

There are many between Lemonis and those on this list that you gave though.

[BigDawg81]

I think it?s time to be looking at the hitting coach and possibly a change. Overall, it has been pretty bad this year and it hasn?t been great in years past. The Slugging percentage is near the bottom of the league if not at the bottom. I think it?s time for a new approach. Also, base running has been the worst as it has been. I don?t know who is at fault here but I has to better in the future.

[The Federalist Engineer]

No- this was the excuse some of our baseball fans make because they were naive enough to think we were going to pull some top flight HC to come to StarkVegas. Thats just not going to happen no matter who the AD is

That's what our leader said he was doing. I'll admit that I was naive and believed Cohen that had many Top, Omaha Experieced, and Elite coaches ready for the job. I thought he was picking from many top candidates.

I remember us arguing if we wanted Schloss, Tadlock, McD, Bobby Cox, O'Connor, Joe Madden, or Corbin more. As though these were the candidates. Preacherdog had Tadlock as his avatar all spring. I was team Schloss with McD being my acceptable #2. I thought Schloss was more glamorous but McD would hurt Ole Miss more. I am joking about Madden and Cox but I remember us talking about every possible glamorous coach.

When Lemonis was announced, we-the-naive were blindsided. I had to look up if Lemonis was the Indiana coach we faced in the 2013 CWS.

From what Todd said, Cohen should have just hired Gary Henderson and paid Vitello to be the coach-in-waiting. Yelp, I am being the backseat driver with the benefit of future results already known. Cohen could have gotten GH the best assistants in College Baseball and told GH, he would retire by 2020.

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS8ScbGWUbG1xuh9Od_qzfzxj6V6J2vz gY9ylIgF0DqKg&s

[Santiago]

No- this was the excuse some of our baseball fans make because they were naive enough to think we were going to pull some top flight HC to come to StarkVegas. Thats just not going to happen no matter who the AD is

Having some fun here coach, but I read this as you admitting Lemonis is not some top flight HC.

[Coach34]

Having some fun here coach, but I read this as you admitting Lemonis is not some top flight HC.

Honestly I dont. Some of the decisions we make drive me nuts- like pitching Davis on Saturday. Bringing him in after Auger on Sunday could have kept us in the game and given us that sweep chance. But I believed 100% he deserved this year because of the Natty. But my stance is clear- we miss a Regional next year? You're fired. 3 out of 4 doesnt cut it. I think we have some solid pieces for next year but we will be inexperienced. Need some good portal pieces and proper development for 25

[Santiago]

Honestly I dont. Some of the decisions we make drive me nuts- like pitching Davis on Saturday. Bringing him in after Auger on Sunday could have kept us in the game and given us that sweep chance. But I believed 100% he deserved this year because of the Natty. But my stance is clear- we miss a Regional next year? You're fired. 3 out of 4 doesnt cut it. I think we have some solid pieces for next year but we will be inexperienced. Need some good portal pieces and proper development for 25

Good points.
That is why I just don't trust him to build the pieces in the portal for next season.
Lemonis is living well right now with the help in the Auburn series, 2 short games that helped our pitching, and we still needed Hines bailing us out. Bama with players sick on Saturday and they were still hitting Loo pretty well without starters.

Is there a scenario in regionals you see Lemonis being fired this year?

[BrunswickDawg]

Good points.
That is why I just don't trust him to build the pieces in the portal for next season.
Lemonis is living well right now with the help in the Auburn series, 2 short games that helped our pitching, and we still needed Hines bailing us out. Bama with players sick on Saturday and they were still hitting Loo pretty well without starters.

Is there a scenario in regionals you see Lemonis being fired this year?

By your statement he's living well now, but doesn't that just even out the BS losses we took because of bad umps at A&M and the review and suspension fiasco against UGA? Outside forces essentially cost us two games. Baseball is a long season. You don't get to discount wins or justify loses because "shit happens". It's just another part of the game. All these things you point to trying to downplay wins is just baseball.

[StarkVegasSteve]

Good points.
That is why I just don't trust him to build the pieces in the portal for next season.
Lemonis is living well right now with the help in the Auburn series, 2 short games that helped our pitching, and we still needed Hines bailing us out. Bama with players sick on Saturday and they were still hitting Loo pretty well without starters.

Is there a scenario in regionals you see Lemonis being fired this year?

He's safe out of all likelihood. The only thing that would throw doubt into that would be struggling to close out the year and then going 0-2 in a road regional where you don't look competitive in either game. Again, barring a collapse though, he's safe and will get 25. But again, 25 is going to be a lot like this year. If he flops, he's fired. I know this sounds crazy, but if I'm Lemonis I 'm keeping my ears to the ground to see if a mid tier ACC job would open up and I'm politicking hard for it. If I was a coach, I just would hate being basically on a year to year contract. I don't know how you're supposed to effectively recruit off that. Not saying we're wrong for the expectations or he's wrong for wanting a little more leeway. I just think he's backed himself into a corner and he's at the end of a talent cycle. He's either going to have to kill it in the portal, which he is capable of, or go on a run to at least the Supers this year.

[Coach34]

Good points.
That is why I just don't trust him to build the pieces in the portal for next season.
Lemonis is living well right now with the help in the Auburn series, 2 short games that helped our pitching, and we still needed Hines bailing us out. Bama with players sick on Saturday and they were still hitting Loo pretty well without starters.

Is there a scenario in regionals you see Lemonis being fired this year?

outside of getting caught molesting a goat I believe he will be back

[Santiago]

By your statement he's living well now, but doesn't that just even out the BS losses we took because of bad umps at A&M and the review and suspension fiasco against UGA? Outside forces essentially cost us two games. Baseball is a long season. You don't get to discount wins or justify loses because "shit happens". It's just another part of the game. All these things you point to trying to downplay wins is just baseball.

At A&M, other than Hines and Jordan , we did not hit very well. Umps did not cause us to have so many swing and misses.
But a team having food poisoning is alot different than blaming an umpire for us not hitting.

The season does balance out to the law of averages. We are having a nice streak, with some help. We also seem to go with how Hines goes right now.
Edit: need Jordan and Hines this coming weekend against Arkansas. We can take 2 from them if we just hit a little, and don't have little league base running.

[StarkVegasSteve]

That's what our leader said he was doing. I'll admit that I was naive and believed Cohen that had many Top, Omaha Experieced, and Elite coaches ready for the job. I thought he was picking from many top candidates.

I remember us arguing if we wanted Schloss, Tadlock, McD, Bobby Cox, O'Connor, Joe Madden, or Corbin more. As though these were the candidates. Preacherdog had Tadlock as his avatar all spring. I was team Schloss with McD being my acceptable #2. I thought Schloss was more glamorous but McD would hurt Ole Miss more. I am joking about Madden and Cox but I remember us talking about every possible glamorous coach.

When Lemonis was announced, we-the-naive were blindsided. I had to look up if Lemonis was the Indiana coach we faced in the 2013 CWS.

From what Todd said, Cohen should have just hired Gary Henderson and paid Vitello to be the coach-in-waiting. Yelp, I am being the backseat driver with the benefit of future results already known. Cohen could have gotten GH the best assistants in College Baseball and told GH, he would retire by 2020.

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS8ScbGWUbG1xuh9Od_qzfzxj6V6J2vz gY9ylIgF0DqKg&s

The main issue there is that Vitello was hired at Tennessee in 2017 so we would've had to pull a sitting HC from an SEC school to be a HC in waiting. Somehow I don't think he would have gone for that. Cohen should've just hired Vitello when he hired Cann. They're the same person except Vitello is single so he can do all the stuff Cann did and no one can say anything.

[maroonmania]

Parker is a very good coach but I don't understand people saying Parker has "done more with less" Parker said before the season started this was the most pitching talent he had ever had. The way I see it this year's pitching results are what they should have always been, he hasn't overachieved, it just feels that way because we were sooooo bad. He's gotten us back on track.

I have zero issues with Parker he's done a good job. Dohm hurt, Loftin hurt, Holcombe is MIA. Thats probably 3 of the top 5 arms gone.

I don't see how you can NOT say he has done more with less. We have the second best ERA in conference only games and that's with no Dohm, no Loftin, almost no contribution from Holcomb and Ligon has made very little contribution as well. So Parker has jumped us from 14th to 2nd with the only real portal contribution coming from Stephen. The rest is last year's staff that stunk plus a couple of signees. If he isn't worthy of assistant coach of the year then I don't know who is?

[Coach34]

I don't see how you can NOT say he has done more with less. We have the second best ERA in conference only games and that's with no Dohm, no Loftin, almost no contribution from Holcomb and Ligon has made very little contribution as well. So Parker has jumped us from 14th to 2nd with the only real portal contribution coming from Stephen. The rest is last year's staff that stunk plus a couple of signees. If he isn't worthy of assistant coach of the year then I don't know who is?

Because we have a very talented pitching staff. We dont lack talent. Overcoming injuries tho is a huge plus. Losing Dohm, Simmons, and Loftin is why he should be Asst of the year

[Santiago]

Because we have a very talented pitching staff. We dont lack talent. Overcoming injuries tho is a huge plus. Losing Dohm, Simmons, and Loftin is why he should be Asst of the year

He is on a big school HC trajectory if he does this another 2 years.

[Leroy Jenkins]

I don't see how you can NOT say he has done more with less. We have the second best ERA in conference only games and that's with no Dohm, no Loftin, almost no contribution from Holcomb and Ligon has made very little contribution as well. So Parker has jumped us from 14th to 2nd with the only real portal contribution coming from Stephen. The rest is last year's staff that stunk plus a couple of signees. If he isn't worthy of assistant coach of the year then I don't know who is?

I guess the point I'm making is we were never really 14th from a talent perspective, which makes Fox even worse.

[Coach34]

I guess the point I'm making is we were never really 14th from a talent perspective, which makes Fox even worse.

altho he doesnt do the PC role at Auburn- it is kinda funny that they have taken a nosedive as soon as he gets on staff

[Todd4State]

altho he doesnt do the PC role at Auburn- it is kinda funny that they have taken a nosedive as soon as he gets on staff

There's definitely some influence there. I imagine there could be a lot of conflicting philosophies going on knowing how Butch was at least when he was here at MSU.

[viverlibre]

altho he doesnt do the PC role at Auburn- it is kinda funny that they have taken a nosedive as soon as he gets on staff

Butch went from golden child for State baseball fans to

https://media1.tenor.com/m/iSJc3o_1JlwAAAAC/cringe-eeee.gif

[Santiago]

There's definitely some influence there. I imagine there could be a lot of conflicting philosophies going on knowing how Butch was at least when he was here at MSU.

Wasn't Butch, at MSU, "throw it in the bucket" for a location type. And Fox is not that for sure.

[Santiago]

outside of getting caught molesting a goat I believe he will be back

I do hope we take 2 from Arkansas up there. Talk about building fan base support, that would be great up there.

[TopDawg]

I kinda got the impression no Elite coach wanted to work for Cohen is why we have Lemonis.

^^^^THIS^^^^

[maroonmania]

I guess the point I'm making is we were never really 14th from a talent perspective, which makes Fox even worse.

Well I will agree we were never 14th but I'm still not convinced we are even top half of the league now with the guys we have that are actually pitching. We certainly aren't anywhere close to 2nd.

[Pancho]

^^^^THIS^^^^

combine it with the fact that he is simply learning on the job. I hope he is anyway********

[BrunswickDawg]

Well I will agree we were never 14th but I'm still not convinced we are even top half of the league now with the guys we have that are actually pitching. We certainly aren't anywhere close to 2nd.

Statements like these are ridiculous. Our Strength of Schedule last year was 14th in the country. This year it is 18th. That's a nominal difference. Our pitching turn around is legitimate.
And this is just the first season under Parker. Give these guys another offseason working with them.

[CaptainObvious]

Statements like these are ridiculous. Our Strength of Schedule last year was 14th in the country. This year it is 18th. That's a nominal difference. Our pitching turn around is legitimate.
And this is just the first season under Parker. Give these guys another offseason working with them.

When you play 3 games per weekend against 10 SEC teams every year, the overall strength of schedule will never be below 30.

You evaluate non-conference strength of schedule and see how bucket boy did against that schedule, if it doesn't raise your eyebrows, you are not evaluating from a full deck. We have 1 sweep against Auburn. Hell, Ole Miss sux so bad they took 2/3 from State and they handled Auburn pretty easily. State took 2 of 3 from Vandy. Georgia swept Vandy, 2 wins were run-rule.
State took 2 of 3 from LSU to start the season. Who knew LSU would suck so bad. State lost 2 of 3 from Florida! Really?

Gotta take 2 from Arkansas to remove the mad taste of losing series to Ole Miss and Florida along with getting swept by Austin Peay!

[Pancho]

left wins on the table, austin peay, possibly 2 at florida, georgia. the sharts, the middle arkansas game . I look more at the way the games were lost than anything. He may hang on and retire here*******

[BrunswickDawg]

When you play 3 games per weekend against 10 SEC teams every year, the overall strength of schedule will never be below 30.

You evaluate non-conference strength of schedule and see how bucket boy did against that schedule, if it doesn't raise your eyebrows, you are not evaluating from a full deck. We have 1 sweep against Auburn. Hell, Ole Miss sux so bad they took 2/3 from State and they handled Auburn pretty easily. State took 2 of 3 from Vandy. Georgia swept Vandy, 2 wins were run-rule.
State took 2 of 3 from LSU to start the season. Who knew LSU would suck so bad. State lost 2 of 3 from Florida! Really?

Gotta take 2 from Arkansas to remove the mad taste of losing series to Ole Miss and Florida along with getting swept by Austin Peay!

That 41 SOS in 2022 says you're wrong.

Some of y'all really can't stand that this team has improved and we will likely host. You throw every thing at the wall to try to distract people from the fact that our SOS and RPIs show we are a very good team.

[Coach34]

That 41 SOS in 2022 says you're wrong.

Some of y'all really can't stand that this team has improved and we will likely host. You throw every thing at the wall to try to distract people from the fact that our SOS and RPIs show we are a very good team.

Mississippi beat us at home- as they did Auburn. I also notice Mr Obvious left out the fact that Mississippi lost to Auburn.
Georgia swept Candy at home. We beat them 2/3 on the road.

Home teams are winning 2/3 of the time. If you take Auburn and Mizzou out it may be higher

[Coach34]

Some of y'all really can't stand that this team has improved and we will likely host. You throw every thing at the wall to try to distract people from the fact that our SOS and RPIs show we are a very good team.

They big mad they cant use their "State standard" term anymore with us ranked in the Top 15 and on the cusp of hosting

[Todd4State]

When you play 3 games per weekend against 10 SEC teams every year, the overall strength of schedule will never be below 30.

You evaluate non-conference strength of schedule and see how bucket boy did against that schedule, if it doesn't raise your eyebrows, you are not evaluating from a full deck. We have 1 sweep against Auburn. Hell, Ole Miss sux so bad they took 2/3 from State and they handled Auburn pretty easily. State took 2 of 3 from Vandy. Georgia swept Vandy, 2 wins were run-rule.
State took 2 of 3 from LSU to start the season. Who knew LSU would suck so bad. State lost 2 of 3 from Florida! Really?

Gotta take 2 from Arkansas to remove the mad taste of losing series to Ole Miss and Florida along with getting swept by Austin Peay!

It doesn't sound like you are evaluating a full deck to me. Losing to Florida and Ole Miss on the road isn't that terrible based on their metrics. If anything winning the Governor's Cup offset at least one of the Ole Miss losses. You might have an argument if we lost to those teams in Starkville. There is a reason why RPI weights road games differently than home and neutral. LSU has been playing much better and is likely going to make a regional. I'm not exactly sure what your point about Georgia is since we won that series?

Essentially if you win 2/3 at home and 1/3 on the road you did OK in this league. That's pretty much what we have done so far.

[Todd4State]

Mississippi beat us at home- as they did Auburn. I also notice Mr Obvious left out the fact that Mississippi lost to Auburn.
Georgia swept Candy at home. We beat them 2/3 on the road.

Home teams are winning 2/3 of the time. If you take Auburn and Mizzou out it may be higher

Speaking of Auburn they picked up a win over a solid Georgia Tech team tonight that's in the middle of the ACC. And Vanderbilt beat a decent Louisville team as well. I know "it's baseball" but it does say something about the SEC IMO. With PAC 12 falling apart I would say the ACC is the closest league to the SEC from top to bottom.

[Commercecomet24]

That 41 SOS in 2022 says you're wrong.

Some of y'all really can't stand that this team has improved and we will likely host. You throw every thing at the wall to try to distract people from the fact that our SOS and RPIs show we are a very good team.

Right as always Bruns! 100% accurate on every thing!

[Commercecomet24]

They big mad they cant use their "State standard" term anymore with us ranked in the Top 15 and on the cusp of hosting

Yep.

[RockyDog]

They big mad they cant use their "State standard" term anymore with us ranked in the Top 15 and on the cusp of hosting

They lie about that anyway. There have been several people say the "State Standard" is at the top of the SEC. Booo sheet. Once since 1989 is a standard now? LOLOLOLOL

The "State standard" since 2000 is between 6th and 7th in the SEC. So far, Christopher Lemons has exceeded that standard by far one time and is right about there this season. Pat McMahon, Polk II, Cohen, and Cannizaro all lived around this "State standard" as has Lemons. Give him the lifetime contract now!!

[StarkVegasSteve]

They lie about that anyway. There have been several people say the "State Standard" is at the top of the SEC. Booo sheet. Once since 1989 is a standard now? LOLOLOLOL

The "State standard" since 2000 is between 6th and 7th in the SEC. So far, Christopher Lemons has exceeded that standard by far one time and is right about there this season. Pat McMahon, Polk II, Cohen, and Cannizaro all lived around this "State standard" as has Lemons. Give him the lifetime contract now!!

No one is saying give him a lifetime contract. Hell, everyone is attacking C34 and he has even said if we're bad next year to fire him. But you can't only look at the bad this year and say that is your reasoning for firing him. You have to give him credit for the good. We're by every projection either hosting or right on the bubble, we have pitched it better, hit it about the same, and fielded better. If you would've told everyone in February that in May we would be 14-10 in SEC play and in the hosting conversation, there is not a State fan alive that wouldn't have taken that. Have we blown games? Absolutely. But have we also won some games we shouldn't have? You bet we have.

[Tbonewannabe]

No one is saying give him a lifetime contract. Hell, everyone is attacking C34 and he has even said if we're bad next year to fire him. But you can't only look at the bad this year and say that is your reasoning for firing him. You have to give him credit for the good. We're by every projection either hosting or right on the bubble, we have pitched it better, hit it about the same, and fielded better. If you would've told everyone in February that in May we would be 14-10 in SEC play and in the hosting conversation, there is not a State fan alive that wouldn't have taken that. Have we blown games? Absolutely. But have we also won some games we shouldn't have? You bet we have.

Barring a huge collapse this year, Lemo has earned another year. We should either be a host or a high 2 seed somewhere with a chance to win it. Will he still be on the hot seat next year, I believe so unless we end up in Omaha this year.

Next year will be a big prove it year. We will lose Stephen and Loo along with DJ, Hines, and Hujsak. Next year is going to be a true rebuild and this is 100% his team.

[Commercecomet24]

No one is saying give him a lifetime contract. Hell, everyone is attacking C34 and he has even said if we're bad next year to fire him. But you can't only look at the bad this year and say that is your reasoning for firing him. You have to give him credit for the good. We're by every projection either hosting or right on the bubble, we have pitched it better, hit it about the same, and fielded better. If you would've told everyone in February that in May we would be 14-10 in SEC play and in the hosting conversation, there is not a State fan alive that wouldn't have taken that. Have we blown games? Absolutely. But have we also won some games we shouldn't have? You bet we have.

Well said and 100% accurate.

[RockyDog]

No one is saying give him a lifetime contract. Hell, everyone is attacking C34 and he has even said if we're bad next year to fire him. But you can't only look at the bad this year and say that is your reasoning for firing him. You have to give him credit for the good. We're by every projection either hosting or right on the bubble, we have pitched it better, hit it about the same, and fielded better. If you would've told everyone in February that in May we would be 14-10 in SEC play and in the hosting conversation, there is not a State fan alive that wouldn't have taken that. Have we blown games? Absolutely. But have we also won some games we shouldn't have? You bet we have.

Sorry I should have worded better. I back up what Coach says and I meant that if you count the “State standard” then Lemons has achieved or exceeded and thus deserves a lifetime contract.

He has done just as well as any of the coaches before him AND has a natty.

[The Federalist Engineer]

Lifetime Contract that ends when Justin Parker needs a counteroffer.

[StarkVegasSteve]

Lifetime Contract that ends when Justin Parker needs a counteroffer.

Will be very interesting to see what Parker has up his sleeve this offseason. He basically walked into all the talent that he currently has outside of Stephen. Now let's see what he can do when we have to replace 2 weekend starters and some depth pieces. Not in any way undermining what he has done because it's been great to see. But next year is when I believe he'll make his biggest impact. How many pitchers are going to want to come pitch for him? Can he be like a Muscara or Wes Johnson where pitchers WANT to come be tutored by them.

[The Federalist Engineer]

Will be very interesting to see what Parker has up his sleeve this offseason. He basically walked into all the talent that he currently has outside of Stephen. Now let's see what he can do when we have to replace 2 weekend starters and some depth pieces. Not in any way undermining what he has done because it's been great to see. But next year is when I believe he'll make his biggest impact. How many pitchers are going to want to come pitch for him? Can he be like a Muscara or Wes Johnson where pitchers WANT to come be tutored by them.

He inherited the worst ERA in the SEC, especially in-Conference . Not the worst by a bit, but the worst by an order magnitude. He took players that did not look like D1 players to All-SEC. He made a decent Big-10 Starter into a Marquee SEC Friday night guy. He whispered Ligon into big contributions, Ligon has continually improved.

I've said this in another thread, but Parker 2024 is more impressive than Wes Johnson in 2023 because LSU bought Wes a whole staff of known major prospects. Skenes was already an All American. Hurd was a 1st Round candidate on arrival. Plus other dudes that mighty LSU already had. Also, LSU has 2 new big transfers in 2024. Wes did not develop internal successors. Where would LSU be without Holman and Jump transferring-in.

We'll see Parker's work next year. What will he do with Stevens, Grant, Dotson, and Loftin? Can he covert Siary and Holcombe should both stick around. Who will be recruited via transfer.

[Homedawg]

No one is saying give him a lifetime contract. Hell, everyone is attacking C34 and he has even said if we're bad next year to fire him. But you can't only look at the bad this year and say that is your reasoning for firing him. You have to give him credit for the good. We're by every projection either hosting or right on the bubble, we have pitched it better, hit it about the same, and fielded better. If you would've told everyone in February that in May we would be 14-10 in SEC play and in the hosting conversation, there is not a State fan alive that wouldn't have taken that. Have we blown games? Absolutely. But have we also won some games we shouldn't have? You bet we have.

Good post