Mississippi State Baseball Expectations

[StarkVegasSteve]

So I've seen it a lot this year and it got me thinking...what are our program expectations year in and year out. Obviously we know we had a 5 year stretch, COVID eliminated a year, where we were probably the most spoiled fan base in the country. 5 supers in 5 years and 3 trips to Omaha capped with a national championship. That is not the norm. Now I have said time and time again that our palace was not built for April, it was built for June. So in my opinion, I think it's the NCAA tourney every year, a host every other year, and a Super every 2 to 3 years. I think with our buy in and with how we generally recruit, Omaha once every 4 years is a reasonable expectation. How does everyone else feel?

[MedDawg]

Sounds about right. Maybe a CWS twice every 5-6 years. Hosting is Top 16, we should get that a little more than every other year. Hosting 3 out of 5?

[Coach34]

Make the tourney and be in a Super more often than not

[StarkVegasSteve]

Also to compare us to LSU, since some people like to do that:

MSU- 12 trips total to Omaha
LSU- 11 trips from 1986-2000

[BrunswickDawg]

So I've seen it a lot this year and it got me thinking...what are our program expectations year in and year out. Obviously we know we had a 5 year stretch, COVID eliminated a year, where we were probably the most spoiled fan base in the country. 5 supers in 5 years and 3 trips to Omaha capped with a national championship. That is not the norm. Now I have said time and time again that our palace was not built for April, it was built for June. So in my opinion, I think it's the NCAA tourney every year, a host every other year, and a Super every 2 to 3 years. I think with our buy in and with how we generally recruit, Omaha once every 4 years is a reasonable expectation. How does everyone else feel?

In general, I agree with those expectations. I will say this though - when you are considering "is the coach meeting expectations", I think you have to be more holistic about the program and measure it by more then a singular item. There are so many more variables in college baseball now versus even a decade ago. More schools are spending big. There has been a massive talent trickle down effect from MLB cutting the draft in half and killing 40 MiLB teams. NIL is a now a factor. And we play by far in the toughest conference in the country. One season doesn't make a program, but the wrong decision can break one.

The run we had from 2011-2021 was the best stretch in program history and resulted in our finally reaching the pinnacle. We put every single ounce of effort we had into getting not just baseball, but our entire university over a major psychological hump.
Additionally, the program had to overcome massive coaching instability to do it. And if you don't think that was a herculean effort - just look at what similar instability has done to football post-Mullen. Frankly, I think we were lucky to have some of the right players, with the most supportive fanbase in the country, and that's the only reason we made it through that without imploding. I don't think there is another program in the country that could have come out the other side of that and won a Natty. We can't take that for granted, but it doesn't make us immune from having bad years either.

[MoreCowbell]

Making a super regional should be yearly expectation. With our tradition, fan support, facilities and baseball NIL top 16 should be expected. I realize that is not possible every year but it is what should be expected.

[Cooterpoot]

Making a regional is the minimum. Every coach since Polk has made a CWS, no reason to think every coach shouldn't. The question is, how long is that minimum going to keep someone's job.

[MoreCowbell]

My problem with Lemonis is he is a good manager when he has great talent but he is not a good recruiter.

His recruiting classes:
National/SEC
2020- 17/8
2021- 26/11
2022- 5/3 (did not get top 3 commits to campus)
2023- 12/8
2024- 21/12

Vitello is what we thought Cannizzaro was going to be

[StarkVegasSteve]

My problem with Lemonis is he is a good manager when he has great talent but he is not a good recruiter.

His recruiting classes:
National/SEC
2020- 17/8
2021- 26/11
2022- 5/3 (did not get top 3 commits to campus)
2023- 12/8
2024- 21/12

Vitello is what we thought Cannizzaro was going to be

Vitello is what we thought Vitello would be. Look at the classes he brought to Arkansas and TCU. Heck he recruited Max Scherzer to Mizzou. He was always going to be a rockstar. He just needed someone to give him a chance and get out of the way. Tennessee did that. Fulmer should get a lot of credit for taking a risk and hiring Vitello.

[Commercecomet24]

In general, I agree with those expectations. I will say this though - when you are considering "is the coach meeting expectations", I think you have to be more holistic about the program and measure it by more then a singular item. There are so many more variables in college baseball now versus even a decade ago. More schools are spending big. There has been a massive talent trickle down effect from MLB cutting the draft in half and killing 40 MiLB teams. NIL is a now a factor. And we play by far in the toughest conference in the country. One season doesn't make a program, but the wrong decision can break one.

The run we had from 2011-2021 was the best stretch in program history and resulted in our finally reaching the pinnacle. We put every single ounce of effort we had into getting not just baseball, but our entire university over a major psychological hump.
Additionally, the program had to overcome massive coaching instability to do it. And if you don't think that was a herculean effort - just look at what similar instability has done to football post-Mullen. Frankly, I think we were lucky to have some of the right players, with the most supportive fanbase in the country, and that's the only reason we made it through that without imploding. I don't think there is another program in the country that could have come out the other side of that and won a Natty. We can't take that for granted, but it doesn't make us immune from having bad years either.

Bruns your posts should be required reading for everyone.

I can't give you anymore rep!

[StarkVegasSteve]

In general, I agree with those expectations. I will say this though - when you are considering "is the coach meeting expectations", I think you have to be more holistic about the program and measure it by more then a singular item. There are so many more variables in college baseball now versus even a decade ago. More schools are spending big. There has been a massive talent trickle down effect from MLB cutting the draft in half and killing 40 MiLB teams. NIL is a now a factor. And we play by far in the toughest conference in the country. One season doesn't make a program, but the wrong decision can break one.

The run we had from 2011-2021 was the best stretch in program history and resulted in our finally reaching the pinnacle. We put every single ounce of effort we had into getting not just baseball, but our entire university over a major psychological hump.
Additionally, the program had to overcome massive coaching instability to do it. And if you don't think that was a herculean effort - just look at what similar instability has done to football post-Mullen. Frankly, I think we were lucky to have some of the right players, with the most supportive fanbase in the country, and that's the only reason we made it through that without imploding. I don't think there is another program in the country that could have come out the other side of that and won a Natty. We can't take that for granted, but it doesn't make us immune from having bad years either.


And that tough conference has gotten 10x tougher than it already was in the last 10 years. Tennessee hires Vitello, LSU replaces Manieri with Johnson and wins a national championship, Butch has Auburn rolling, Ole Miss wins a national championship, Florida has won a national championship and played for another, A&M replaces Childress with Schlossnagle and is rolling, DVH has never stopped rolling, Corbin has won 2 in that time frame and played for two more, Bama seems to actually care about baseball, and to top all of it off: Texas is about to join the SEC.

This league is just a beast that is only getting better. Gone are the days where it was LSU, State, and everyone else.

[DawgFromOxford]

Making a super regional should be yearly expectation. With our tradition, fan support, facilities and baseball NIL top 16 should be expected. I realize that is not possible every year but it is what should be expected.

This. No reason we shouldn't be one of the best 16 teams in the country more times than not.

Inexcusable to not even be one of the best 64 teams in the country 2 years in a row.

[Santiago]

expectations-
1. not having seasons like the past 2 years in a row.
2. Regionals each year, meaning we were top half of SEC, and beat our midweek teams.
3. Hosting regionals as often as possible, to give us the advantage to launch into a super regional.
4. Super Regionals on an average of every 3 years.

This at least gives us more chances to get to the CWS.

Basically, nothing like the last 2 years.
ALSO - Evaluating talent in the portal. Going to be huge.

[Turfdawg67]

Forget a Regional, Super Regional and Omaha... how about not making the SEC Tourney two years in a row, following a NC... is a fireable offense. And should not be tolerated. Sorry.

[Turfdawg67]

Bruns your posts should be required reading for everyone.

I can't give you anymore rep!

Agreed and I can't Rep him more either at the moment. But it's the thought that counts CC24.

[CaptainObvious]

I can see one thing we have not had the last 2 seasons. State is not just selling out the Dude for SEC games, the fans are showing up as actual fans in the seats not empty seats paid for by season ticket holders. It just seems like the last two seasons of baseball, basketball and football left such a bad taste, fans were chomping at the but to see some success. And this group, though not nearly as talented as some here would have you believe, have endeared themselves to the fans by effort, tenacity, grit, not giving up (except 14-2 OM Sunday game) and desire to play all 9 innings and more if needed.

Definitely refreshing to see the change from the last two years in spite of the same bucket warmer in the dugout.

[BuckyIsAB****]

Better than what we currently are

[Santiago]

Better than what we currently are

What gets me also is this is "our year" in Lemonis's tenure, where basically the whole starting lineup other than recently added Pulliam , may leave.
This is our loaded team....before the rebuild.

[Quaoarsking]

These are reasonable expectations every 10 year stretch:

Make the tournament at least 9 times (should be 10, but sometimes you just get really bad luck in baseball)
Host a regional at least 5 times
Win a regional at least 5 times
Make it to Omaha at least 3 times

We are one of only 4 fanbases who care about winning in baseball, and at worst we care the 2nd most (and you could make an argument that we're ahead of LSU and are #1). These are modest goals with that in mind.


For comparison, in the 10 year stretch from 2011 through 2021 (remembering that 2020 was canceled), we made 9 Regionals, hosted 4 times, won 7 regionals, and made Omaha 4 times, winning it all once. That's hitting 3 of those 4 expectations, exceeding 2 of them and missing the hosting just by 1. That's a very successful decade, and one that we should be replicating in any rolling 10.

[Ezsoil]

Forget a Regional, Super Regional and Omaha... how about not making the SEC Tourney two years in a row, following a NC... is a fireable offense. And should not be tolerated. Sorry.

Well guess what I can guarantee that they will never miss the SEC tourney again ....

[StarkVegasSteve]

These are reasonable expectations every 10 year stretch:

Make the tournament at least 9 times (should be 10, but sometimes you just get really bad luck in baseball)
Host a regional at least 5 times
Win a regional at least 5 times
Make it to Omaha at least 3 times

We are one of only 4 fanbases who care about winning in baseball, and at worst we care the 2nd most (and you could make an argument that we're ahead of LSU and are #1). These are modest goals with that in mind.


For comparison, in the 10 year stretch from 2011 through 2021 (remembering that 2020 was canceled), we made 9 Regionals, hosted 4 times, won 7 regionals, and made Omaha 4 times, winning it all once. That's hitting 3 of those 4 expectations, exceeding 2 of them and missing the hosting just by 1. That's a very successful decade, and one that we should be replicating in any rolling 10.

That 10 stretch was without a doubt the most successful in program history. I think it also spoiled the fanbase. We are a program that gets to Omaha once every 4-6 years. Making the tournament and hosting every other year should be the standard. Making Omaha 4 times in a 10 year stretch and 3 straight years is not our historical norm.

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

Make the tourney and be in a Super more often than not

Agreed!

So you agree that if Lemo doesn't make a Super, he should be fired, right? I mean missing the postseason 2/3 years bland not making a Super the 3rd is certainly falling very short of the standard, is it not?

[Santiago]

That 10 stretch was without a doubt the most successful in program history. I think it also spoiled the fanbase. We are a program that gets to Omaha once every 4-6 years. Making the tournament and hosting every other year should be the standard. Making Omaha 4 times in a 10 year stretch and 3 straight years is not our historical norm.

Saying it spoiled us might be true about some fans but not all. It also ingnited our base to see our full potential when we are trying every year to knock down doors.
We had a legendary coach whose recruiting was "have the kid come to my camp". Whatever he did, and his methods were perfectly fine with our fan base for way too many years, as we saw Ole Miss hire a coach that started taking the kids in MS and surrounding areas that used to be ours.

I think there is truth from both aspects about the past 10 years. Maybe some raised the bar too much, but then others see what our stadium, NIL, and fan support can really do with a coach that is a recruiter and evaluator of talent.
We don't want to go back to the Lazy Boy recliner and lower the bar, and in no way do I want to see MSU baseball go back to that complacency.

So when I hear people say our fan base is spoiled over the past 10 years.....I hear that but also get vibes of the old fan base complacency that you say we historically should accept.

[StarkVegasSteve]

Saying it spoiled us might be true about some fans but not all. It also ingnited our base to see our full potential when we are trying every year to knock down doors.
We had a legendary coach whose recruiting was "have the kid come to my camp". Whatever he did, and his methods were perfectly fine with our fan base for way too many years, as we saw Ole Miss hire a coach that started taking the kids in MS and surrounding areas that used to be ours.

I think there is truth from both aspects about the past 10 years. Maybe some raised the bar too much, but then others see what our stadium, NIL, and fan support can really do with a coach that is a recruiter and evaluator of talent.
We don't want to go back to the Lazy Boy recliner and lower the bar, and in no way do I want to see MSU baseball go back to that complacency.

So when I hear people say our fan base is spoiled over the past 10 years.....I hear that but also get vibes of the old fan base complacency that you say we historically should accept.

Not just our fanbase, but ANY fanbase would have been spoiled with that. In 10 years we had 8 tournament appearances (COVID took away 2020 season), 7 Supers, 4 CWS appearances, and a national championship. In today's college baseball world where more than 10 programs care, that is a ABSURD hit rate for success.

[Santiago]

Not just our fanbase, but ANY fanbase would have been spoiled with that. In 10 years we had 8 tournament appearances (COVID took away 2020 season), 7 Supers, 4 CWS appearances, and a national championship. In today's college baseball world where more than 10 programs care, that is a ABSURD hit rate for success.

You are right. But I think though there is just this concern to not let us fall all the way back to complacency in the Polk years when Bianco was running circles around him. To me, that should not be part of our historical expectations, and when I read it on our boards it is frustrating to hear people say historically we should accept that crap from back then.

[StarkVegasSteve]

You are right. But I think though there is just this concern to not let us fall all the way back to complacency in the Polk years when Bianco was running circles around him. To me, that should not be part of our historical expectations, and when I read it on our boards it is frustrating to hear people say historically we should accept that crap from back then.

Definitely concern there. Recruiting, which was the reason that Bianco was running circles around us, has not fallen off to this point so I still think we will be ok if we continue building on the success of this season.

[Coach34]

In general, I agree with those expectations. I will say this though - when you are considering "is the coach meeting expectations", I think you have to be more holistic about the program and measure it by more then a singular item. There are so many more variables in college baseball now versus even a decade ago. More schools are spending big. There has been a massive talent trickle down effect from MLB cutting the draft in half and killing 40 MiLB teams. NIL is a now a factor. And we play by far in the toughest conference in the country. One season doesn't make a program, but the wrong decision can break one.

The run we had from 2011-2021 was the best stretch in program history and resulted in our finally reaching the pinnacle. We put every single ounce of effort we had into getting not just baseball, but our entire university over a major psychological hump.
Additionally, the program had to overcome massive coaching instability to do it. And if you don't think that was a herculean effort - just look at what similar instability has done to football post-Mullen. Frankly, I think we were lucky to have some of the right players, with the most supportive fanbase in the country, and that's the only reason we made it through that without imploding. I don't think there is another program in the country that could have come out the other side of that and won a Natty. We can't take that for granted, but it doesn't make us immune from having bad years either.

This cant be said any better. We had our best 10 year period ever and now people want to act like that's the standard when its really not. We had a great run.

Nobody is accepting losing or becoming complacent. Lemon knew coming into this season his job was on the line. He and the team are responding. We'll see how it all ends up and what Regional we get in. The same morons saying we gonna suck next year were the same morons saying we would suck this year and not make the Tourney. We had no talent. We were too good of a program to have a kid from Purdue pitch for us. All that ridiculous crap before the season even started.

[StarkVegasSteve]

This cant be said any better. We had our best 10 year period ever and now people want to act like that's the standard when its really not. We had a great run.

Nobody is accepting losing or becoming complacent. Lemon knew coming into this season his job was on the line. He and the team are responding. We'll see how it all ends up and what Regional we get in. The same morons saying we gonna suck next year were the same morons saying we would suck this year and not make the Tourney. We had no talent. We were too good of a program to have a kid from Purdue pitch for us. All that ridiculous crap before the season even started.

And I will admit I was one of those people. But when you take a step back and look at the numbers, there was no way we could keep THAT TYPE of success. We obviously don't want years like the last two but this year is getting us back to normal. Competing for hosting on a yearly basis and safely in the tournament.

[BuckyIsAB****]

So im reading the argument is, bc we had a really good run for 10 years we should accept our current staff underachieving 3 years in a row. And arguably underachieving during the middle of our good run that they didnt build.

That is pretty stupid IMO. Making excuses

[Santiago]

And I will admit I was one of those people. But when you take a step back and look at the numbers, there was no way we could keep THAT TYPE of success. We obviously don't want years like the last two but this year is getting us back to normal. Competing for hosting on a yearly basis and safely in the tournament.

My take is leave out the "historical MSU" part, because there are parts of that where our fan base never expected more and never challenged our coach. The recruiting was outdated, while our instate rival took total advantage of that.
I can understand asking people to calm down on the past 10 years, but I cannot start hearing people say "historically". That just screams Ron Pok 2.
And currently (not from you), but we have a split on Lemonis on the boards. I see both viewpoints. Some may just be concerned our old Ron Polk fan base is coming out of people and getting comfortable to say "this is as good as we can be these days"

[StarkVegasSteve]

So im reading the argument is, bc we had a really good run for 10 years we should accept our current staff underachieving 3 years in a row. And arguably underachieving during the middle of our good run that they didnt build.

That is pretty stupid IMO. Making excuses

I don't think anyone has said that. What most, including myself, are saying is that 10 year run can't be the expectation. You can't expect a hit rate like that in this college baseball environment. Also, the amount of MLB talent we got to campus. Stratton, Renfroe, Woodruff, Lowe, Rooker, Bednar, Sims, Ginn, Small, Foscue, Westburg.....all in that 10 year span. We had 9 1st round picks from 2012-2022. We had 10 from 1966-2011 That's an almost unfathomable recruiting hit rate.

[BuckyIsAB****]

I don't think anyone has said that. What most, including myself, are saying is that 10 year run can't be the expectation. You can't expect a hit rate like that in this college baseball environment. Also, the amount of MLB talent we got to campus. Stratton, Renfroe, Woodruff, Lowe, Rooker, Bednar, Sims, Ginn, Small, Foscue, Westburg.....all in that 10 year span. We had 9 1st round picks from 2012-2022. We had 10 from 1966-2011 That's an almost unfathomable recruiting hit rate.

And we are here now bc of an unfathomable miss rate. I am glad we are better than 13th and 14th place. But that aint hard to do

[StarkVegasSteve]

And we are here now bc of an unfathomable miss rate. I am glad we are better than 13th and 14th place. But that aint hard to do

Every team has misses. We are not immune to them. Go look at LSU this year, I think they would trade Holman in a heartbeat for Khal Stephen.

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

This is such a stawman argument. Nobody is saying 2011-2021 is the norm and we'll fire any coach that doesn't immediately live up to the expectations.

But even if they were, that has NOTHING to do with Lemo. He missed the postseason entirely these past 2 years. This year, he'll probably make the tourney but as a bubble team and we're going to have to keep an eye on the wins column till the last weekend.

Is that acceptable as the standard? Miss tourney year 4, miss tourney year 5, make tourney with no room to spare year 6 = "hell yeah let's bring him back for year 7!"?

[Santiago]

Every team has misses. We are not immune to them. Go look at LSU this year, I think they would trade Holman in a heartbeat for Khal Stephen.

LSU now has the number 1 recruiting class for 2024.

We have had 3 years of nothing great, and now this lineup is mostly gone after this season.

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

Lemon knew coming into this season his job was on the line. He and the team are responding.


Let's do the math here. Fan support? #1 in the nation. Facilities? Probably still #1, certainly top3. Coaching pay? Top 10 total staff pay. NIL? Certainly top 20, probably top 15. Name brand recognition and recent success that should make us attractive to big recruits/transfers? Top 10. Recent recruiting class ranking? Top 15 every year. You yourself have gone on and on about how talented this team is and how many players will get drafted.

And yet, you take all that top 15 components and talent, you add in Lemonis as the head man, and what do you get? Not a host team, but a bubble team.

This year isn't a "response", it's an underperformance. It's only relative to '22 and '23 you can call it good. By the pure factual math of our resources, we should be a host team.

[Coach34]

So im reading the argument is, bc we had a really good run for 10 years we should accept our current staff underachieving 3 years in a row. And arguably underachieving during the middle of our good run that they didnt build.

We are tied for 5th in the SEC- how is that underachieving this year? We were picked last in the West but currently 3rd. We are actually overachieving.

[Coach34]

This is such a stawman argument. Nobody is saying 2011-2021 is the norm and we'll fire any coach that doesn't immediately live up to the expectations.

Q literally posted that the last 10 years should pretty much be that standard

We are not a bubble team currently. Strong 2 seed. Florida and Bama are the bubble teams currently

[Santiago]

We are tied for 5th in the SEC- how is that underachieving this year? We were picked last in the West but currently 3rd. We are actually overachieving.

Let's see where we finish, because we have won only 1 series against an NCAA regional team.
But also, those midweek losses, and series losses early season do count also as a disappointment.
We had to pitch our weekend pitchers to hang on against Memphis.

Need some wins at Vandy, Arky, and with Bama.

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

We are tied for 5th in the SEC- how is that underachieving this year? We were picked last in the West but currently 3rd. We are actually overachieving.

Oh I wasn't aware we cancelled our out of conference games.

If you exclude the games you don't like and look only at SEC wins and loses, yes we're doing fine. If you include our entire season? We're unranked and our RPI is in the 40s. We've also played a weak SEC schedule so far.


As for where we were picked? That was because Lemo sucked so hard the media assumed he'd suck again. Not because our talented level warranted a last place finish. Hell, even if our talent WAS bad, that's on Lemo in year 6.

You have been the one saying this team would have a ton of players drafted, be among the top in the country in that regard. Where's my "among the top in the country" performance to go with it? Lemo is dragging us down, he just is

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

Q literally posted that the last 10 years should pretty much be that standard

We are not a bubble team currently. Strong 2 seed. Florida and Bama are the bubble teams currently

In no world is our unranked #40 RPI #44 SOS team a "strong 2 seed" lol you are living in fantasy land

But again, in almost every metric you want to look at we have top 16 resources. You yourself claim we have a ton of MLB talent. Where is the equivalent performance?

[Coach34]

Let's see where we finish, because we have won only 1 series against an NCAA regional team.
But also, those midweek losses, and series losses early season do count also as a disappointment.
We had to pitch our weekend pitchers to hang on against Memphis.

Need some wins at Vandy, Arky, and with Bama.

Candy escaped Tuesday with a 5-4 win over Tennessee-Martin. It's baseball.

[BrunswickDawg]

Let's see where we finish, because we have won only 1 series against an NCAA regional team.
But also, those midweek losses, and series losses early season do count also as a disappointment.
We had to pitch our weekend pitchers to hang on against Memphis.

Need some wins at Vandy, Arky, and with Bama.

And I think all anyone has really said is that the only way to evaluate this is going to be based on the end of season results. That's still a fact today.
As C34 has said, Lemonis' job is on the line this season. We know it. He knows it. We are quibbling about semantics for the most part. Fact is he really got a pass for '22 due to injuries and his work from '19-'21 resulting in a Natty. '23 put him on the "win or you're gone" path for '24. I think that tells us that 1) Our administration views our standard as being "make the post season"; and 2) They are also willing to consider the realities of the situation when making decisions (which most fans are not).

[Coach34]

In no world is our unranked #40 RPI #44 SOS team a "strong 2 seed" lol you are living in fantasy land

But again, in almost every metric you want to look at we have top 16 resources. You yourself claim we have a ton of MLB talent. Where is the equivalent performance?

You can spout "Top 16 resources" all you want but in today's college baseball we are no different than a bunch of teams

In the SEC- it's LSU by themselves- then Candy. After that, the next group of teams are interchangable. State, Mississippi, SC, UPig, Tennessee, A&M, Florida...then we can go to the ACC and Big 12 for a few teams to throw in that group as well. We are a Top 20 program but that 20 is actually about 30-35 teams now

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

Candy escaped Tuesday with a 5-4 win over Tennessee-Martin. It's baseball.

Only thing you and I can completely agree on is that 1 off wins or losses should be ignored in favor of the whole picture. That's why our #40 RPI and overall terrible non con need to be be looked at too. But you just care about SEC, which by the way... so far we've beaten a terrible LSU team, a terrible Auburn team, a good UGA team, and lost to a great A&M, a mediocre at best UF, and a bad OM team. By no metrics can you say this teams SEC performance is that of a team with the talent you say we have

[Coach34]

In no world is our unranked #40 RPI #44 SOS team a "strong 2 seed" lol you are living in fantasy land

Every projection put out right now has us as a strong 2. The fantasy is all you hoping Lemon fails

[Santiago]

Candy escaped Tuesday with a 5-4 win over Tennessee-Martin. It's baseball.

They pitched some freshman in the game too. Something we can't do.
I get it though, the midweeks are tough....They were throwing freshmen in the last 3-4 innings, where we were bringing in our weekend closers to try and win.
We don't have freshmen like that.
That is where we are and where Vandy is at.

[Coach34]

You yourself claim we have a ton of MLB talent. Where is the equivalent performance?

Welllllllll let's see:

Jordan? Doing pretty well
Hines? down year but he isnt terrible by any means
Mershon? Dirtbag is hitting .343 and has been great defensively
Hugesak? Hitting .326 and around .340 in SEC play. Really good in CF also
Stephen? One of the SEC's best SP's
Caribbean Jerk? Been pretty good as well
Dohm? Was throwing great until injured

Those are just the definite draft picks

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

You can spout "Top 16 resources" all you want but in today's college baseball we are no different than a bunch of teams

In the SEC- it's LSU by themselves- then Candy. After that, the next group of teams are interchangable. State, Mississippi, SC, UPig, Tennessee, A&M, Florida...then we can go to the ACC and Big 12 for a few teams to throw in that group as well. We are a Top 20 program but that 20 is actually about 30-35 teams now

That is absolutely pure bullshit. You can't take a bunch of top 15/top 10 numbers, average them up, and then get "Were actually tied for 20th with 35 other teams" lol

But let's say we arent a top 16 program. Ok. You yourself have said we have top 5 MLB talent regarding the draft this year. so were the results that match our talent? We should be a top 16 team this year per your own evaluation of our talent, even if you don't think that's sustainable moving forward. We're underperforming our talent level per you

[Quaoarsking]

That 10 stretch was without a doubt the most successful in program history. I think it also spoiled the fanbase. We are a program that gets to Omaha once every 4-6 years. Making the tournament and hosting every other year should be the standard. Making Omaha 4 times in a 10 year stretch and 3 straight years is not our historical norm.

I'll say it again - 5 hosts, 5 regional wins, 3 Omahas each decade should be our minimum standard. We exceeded that a bit from 2011-21. In the modern world with NIL and the portal, there's no excuse not to hit that standard or at least get close to it for our program.

I don't care that we didn't get there "historically." I'm talking about the future. I wouldn't necessarily fire a coach who fell a little short either but over rolling time, that should be an average decade.

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

Welllllllll let's see:

Jordan? Doing pretty well
Hines? down year but he isnt terrible by any means
Mershon? Dirtbag is hitting .343 and has been great defensively
Hugesak? Hitting .326 and around .340 in SEC play. Really good in CF also
Stephen? One of the SEC's best SP's
Caribbean Jerk? Been pretty good as well
Dohm? Was throwing great until injured

Those are just the definite draft picks

Exactly! So where's our top 10 team? You can't claim we have great talent, then look at our unranked #40 RPI team and say "Lemo is doing a good job".

Either we have not top 40 talent and Lemo is coaching them well, or we have a lot of talent and Lemo is underperforming.

[Coach34]

That is absolutely pure bullshit. You can't take a bunch of top 15/top 10 numbers, average them up, and then get "Were actually tied for 20th with 35 other teams" lol

You're delusional if you think State has some big advantage over the teams I named

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

Every projection put out right now has us as a strong 2. The fantasy is all you hoping Lemon fails

I'm not "Hoping" Leminizick fails, he already has failed. I'm hoping we acknowledge that fact and move on from him before he wastes next season too

You're the one who's very pleased with our program and hopes to keep the same results

[Quaoarsking]

Note that many posters have said that we should be playing in the Supers every other year or so. That's basically the same thing as I'm suggesting.

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

You're delusional if you think State has some big advantage over the teams I named

1) so please, tell me where I'm wrong? Do we not have top facilities? Is our Coaching pay not good? Is our NIL way worse than I described? Break the math down for me and tell me where my math is wrong.

2) say we aren't that good. Well, your yourself say our talent is really really good. So even if we can't expect to be too 16 moving forward, we should be really good this year, right? Yet we're unranked and have an awful RPI and lost to bad UF and OM teams. So even if you want to give credit to Lemo for making our talent level be better than it should be, you also have to admit he's underperformed with that talent

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

Note that many posters have said that we should be playing in the Supers every other year or so. That's basically the same thing as I'm suggesting.

C34 himself said we should make a regional every year and the Supers every 3rd year or so. But he wants us to believe being a 2 seed is some great success from Lemo and proves us doubters wrong

[DawgFromOxford]

Candy escaped Tuesday with a 5-4 win over Tennessee-Martin. It's baseball.

It?s not ?that?s just baseball? when it keeps happening

Air Force, Austin Peay, Georgia Southern, South Ala., Central Arkansas. 6 out of conference losses between these powerhouse teams.

[Santiago]

It?s not ?that?s just baseball? when it keeps happening

Air Force, Austin Peay, Georgia Southern, South Ala., Central Arkansas. 6 out of conference losses between these powerhouse teams.

And Vandy was throwing freshmen in the later innings of their game....using the midweek to develop players.

[Coach34]

1) so please, tell me where I'm wrong? Do we not have top facilities? Is our Coaching pay not good? Is our NIL way worse than I described? Break the math down for me and tell me where my math is wrong.

2) say we aren't that good. Well, your yourself say our talent is really really good. So even if we can't expect to be too 16 moving forward, we should be really good this year, right? Yet we're unranked and have an awful RPI and lost to bad UF and OM teams. So even if you want to give credit to Lemo for making our talent level be better than it should be, you also have to admit he's underperformed with that talent

1- The rest of the SEC sans maybe Mizzou and Kentucky has those things as well. Tenn pays their coach more than we pay ours. Bama built a new stadium also. Kids want to play in places like SC and Fla over Mississippi more times than not. Hell, Wake Forest is pulling top guys because of their pitching lab and such. A&M has more money and they arent afraid to spend it. We are grouped right there with probably 30 teams now. It's not the 1900's anymore

2- the season isnt over. We are still playing. I mean- if we dont lose Dohm we are probably 13-5 in the SEC right now. That was a huge loss for us. We are tied for 5th in the SEC and lost our #1 SP. That's overachieving. Take Cags off Fla or Smith off UPig and they would drop back some as well

[StarkVegasSteve]

1) so please, tell me where I'm wrong? Do we not have top facilities? Is our Coaching pay not good? Is our NIL way worse than I described? Break the math down for me and tell me where my math is wrong.

2) say we aren't that good. Well, your yourself say our talent is really really good. So even if we can't expect to be too 16 moving forward, we should be really good this year, right? Yet we're unranked and have an awful RPI and lost to bad UF and OM teams. So even if you want to give credit to Lemo for making our talent level be better than it should be, you also have to admit he's underperformed with that talent

1) These kids DO NOT care about the stadium. Our fans care about it way more than the players do, especially in the NIL world. And I hate to tell y'all but our coach isn't cool and just like football these kids want to go play for the perceived cool programs and cool coaches. Right now that is LSU as a program and Tennessee with the coach.

2) Our talent is good. You're blind if you can't see that. But so is everyone else's. Like others have said, this isn't 1990 where 2 programs cared about baseball. Hell, this isn't even 2013, where 8 programs cared about it. There are 12 teams, about to be 13, in this conference that care about baseball and want to succeed at it. The only teams you could argue don't give a rip are Missouri and Alabama/UGA on a given year they suck. And hell, even Georgia has the consensus number 1 pick.

[BrunswickDawg]

1) These kids DO NOT care about the stadium. Our fans care about it way more than the players do, especially in the NIL world. And I hate to tell y'all but our coach isn't cool and just like football these kids want to go play for the perceived cool programs and cool coaches. Right now that is LSU as a program and Tennessee with the coach.

2) Our talent is good. You're blind if you can't see that. But so is everyone else's. Like others have said, this isn't 1990 where 2 programs cared about baseball. Hell, this isn't even 2013, where 8 programs cared about it. There are 12 teams, about to be 13, in this conference that care about baseball and want to succeed at it. The only teams you could argue don't give a rip are Missouri and Alabama/UGA on a given year they suck. And hell, even Georgia has the consensus number 1 pick.

And even UGA is starting to invest. Their first step was bringing in Johnson. They are putting $45 million into facilities to catch up. They have a group of boosters that are tired of UGA competing sporadically in baseball and see it as their next potential big program.

[StarkVegasSteve]

And even UGA is starting to invest. Their first step was bringing in Johnson. They are putting $45 million into facilities to catch up. They have a group of boosters that are tired of UGA competing sporadically in baseball and see it as their next potential big program.

And they have the money to do it. They have some MEGA boosters over there.

[Coach34]

Not to mention Bama was one of the SEC leaders in draft picks last July

[BuckyIsAB****]

We are tied for 5th in the SEC- how is that underachieving this year? We were picked last in the West but currently 3rd. We are actually overachieving.

We just got run ruled by an our arch rival. Blown multiple MULTIPLE games Due to the same issues we have struggled with for the past 2 years. Tied for 5th in April is better than 14th place for sure. But tied for 5th should be our down years not a prove it year.

The fact you are defending and borderline bragging on here about 5th place is pretty telling

[BuckyIsAB****]

Every projection put out right now has us as a strong 2. The fantasy is all you hoping Lemon fails

Uh. He and his staff already have

[Coach34]

Uh. He and his staff already have

How so? We have not been eliminated from the Supers yet. Basketball and Baseball are all about the Tournament

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

How so? We have not been eliminated from the Supers yet. Basketball and Baseball are all about the Tournament

Is this you saying Lemo needs to make the supers to not be a failure? I can agree with that.

[Tbonewannabe]

And they have the money to do it. They have some MEGA boosters over there.
UGA should be able to just recruit within 2-3 hours of campus and have at least a top 10 recruiting class. Vandy gets a lot of players from the Atlanta area.

[Coach34]

We just got run ruled by an our arch rival. Blown multiple MULTIPLE games Due to the same issues we have struggled with for the past 2 years. Tied for 5th in April is better than 14th place for sure. But tied for 5th should be our down years not a prove it year.

The fact you are defending and borderline bragging on here about 5th place is pretty telling

We also lost our #1 SP but we keep fighting on and remain top half of the SEC. Saying they have failed is moronic

[Coach34]

The fact you are defending and borderline bragging on here about 5th place is pretty telling

We have 1- ONE- SEC regular season title in the last 35 years. Acting like we are always leading the SEC is very telling about how much you know about baseball

[Commercecomet24]

We have 1- ONE- SEC regular season title in the last 35 years. Acting like we are always leading the SEC is very telling about how much you know about baseball

Polk when he basically ran the sec only won sec 5 times. We have had success in postseason yes, but we have not won sec title's frequently at all. Top 5 in the sec is generally top 10-15 in the country. We all want success but we haven't dominated sec regular season baseball in 30 years. It's an arms race now and everyone is spending on baseball now and the sec is more competitive than it's ever been. Let's hope we keep winning this year and finish strong. We have work to do but are in good shape. I say we finish 16-14 or 17-13 in the sec

Sec baseball is way more competitive than sec football.

[Coach34]

Polk when he basically ran the sec only won sec 5 times. We have had success in postseason yes, but we have not won sec title's frequently at all. Top 5 in the sec is generally top 10-15 in the country. We all want success but we haven't dominated sec regular season baseball in 30 years. It's an arms race now and everyone is spending on baseball now and the sec is more competitive than it's ever been. Let's hope we keep winning this year and finish strong. We have work to do but are in good shape. I say we finish 16-14 or 17-13 in the sec

Sec baseball is way more competitive than sec football.

Food for thought:

We go 17-13 in the SEC after being picked last- Lemon gonna get votes for SEC COY

[Commercecomet24]

Food for thought:

We go 17-13 in the SEC after being picked last- Lemon gonna get votes for SEC COY

It's not out of reach for sure. This weekend will go a long way but with 4 series left I think for sure we get 6 more wins.

[Coach34]

Polk when he basically ran the sec only won sec 5 times. We have had success in postseason yes, but we have not won sec title's frequently at all. Top 5 in the sec is generally top 10-15 in the country.

Small correction- Polk won 4. 79, 85, 87, 89

Once Bertman got entrenched at LSU? Polk was bounced back a level

[Commercecomet24]

Small correction- Polk won 4. 79, 85, 87, 89

Once Bertman got entrenched at LSU? Polk was bounced back a level

Yep you're right I counted his uga title in with ours. 4 titles in 29 years at State. I love Coach Polk, but we've never dominated sec championships.

You said it earlier though basebal and basketball is about the postseason. Get there and win.

Our success over the years has been in postseason. We have more cws appearances than sec titles, 12-11.

[Coach34]

Our success over the years has been in postseason. We have more cws appearances than sec titles, 12-11.

Nailed it

[Quaoarsking]

Food for thought:

We go 17-13 in the SEC after being picked last- Lemon gonna get votes for SEC COY

No he won't. Mingione wins it unanimously.

[Commercecomet24]

No he won't. Mingione wins it unanimously.

Yeah unless they completely meltdown he should walk away with it.

[BuckyIsAB****]

How so? We have not been eliminated from the Supers yet. Basketball and Baseball are all about the Tournament

I will give you some credit, when you are against someone you would blame them for stubbing your toe. When you are for them you would credit them for the sun coming up

[BuckyIsAB****]

We also lost our #1 SP but we keep fighting on and remain top half of the SEC. Saying they have failed is moronic

28-50

[Coach34]

I will give you some credit, when you are against someone you would blame them for stubbing your toe. When you are for them you would credit them for the sun coming up

Facts dont care about your feelings

[BuckyIsAB****]

We have 1- ONE- SEC regular season title in the last 35 years. Acting like we are always leading the SEC is very telling about how much you know about baseball

How many times did we miss Hoover 2 years in a row? How many times did we break records for losing

[Coach34]

28-50

only Natty in school history in a major sport

[Coach34]

How many times did we break records for losing

educate me- what record he break for losing?

[Coach34]

How many times did we miss Hoover 2 years in a row? How many times did we break records for losing

We missed Hoover 3 years in a row from 2008-2010

Shit- are you even a State fan? Or did you start being a State fan in 2018? Why do I have to keep educating you?

[DawgFromOxford]

Facts dont care about your feelings

And the fact is Lemonis isn?t coaching up to expectations after winning the big one.

[Coach34]

And the fact is Lemonis isn?t coaching up to expectations after winning the big one.

Until the season ends- what u just said is bullshit

[DawgFromOxford]

Until the season ends- what u just said is bullshit

So his whole body of work post championship is BS? No SEC tournament or regional for 2 years. A 14th and 13th place finish. The year he?s fighting for his job, we?re losing multiple midweek scrub games, lose a series to our rivals who aren?t any good, Georgia being the only team with a pulse we?ve taken a series from. All of that is BS?

[Coach34]

So his whole body of work post championship is BS? No SEC tournament or regional for 2 years. A 14th and 13th place finish. The year he?s fighting for his job, we?re losing multiple midweek scrub games, lose a series to our rivals who aren?t any good, Georgia being the only team with a pulse we?ve taken a series from. All of that is BS?

Sooooooo- we sweeped Auburn- which UPig and Tennessee couldnt do. What say u if we take the road series from Candy this weekend? What say you if we sweep Bammer at home?

[DawgFromOxford]

Sooooooo- we sweeped Auburn- which UPig and Tennessee couldnt do. What say u if we take the road series from Candy this weekend? What say you if we sweep Bammer at home?

I don?t give a rip what other teams do I care what we do. If we take a series at Vandy and sweep Bama I would be ecstatic and say Lemonis is doing what he needs to in order to keep his job after the past 2.5 years.

[Coach34]

I don?t give a rip what other teams do I care what we do. If we take a series at Vandy and sweep Bama I would be ecstatic and say Lemonis is doing what he needs to in order to keep his job after the past 2.5 years.

cool. We on the same page.

[BuckyIsAB****]

Facts dont care about your feelings

Ok boomer. You are the king of bias and agenda not me

[BuckyIsAB****]

We missed Hoover 3 years in a row from 2008-2010

Shit- are you even a State fan? Or did you start being a State fan in 2018? Why do I have to keep educating you?

Oh you are educating me for sure. Not how you think you are.

That was Polk 2. Lemon took over a loaded cupboard and Bidened it up

[BuckyIsAB****]

educate me- what record he break for losing?

Broke his own record for largest SEC home loss. Twice. And longest SEC losing streak in school history. If not the top, it definitely was in the running. Either way you defending that is again pretty telling

[Coach34]

Dude- U dumb af. Wow

[Coach34]

Oh you are educating me for sure. Not how you think you are.

That was Polk 2. Lemon took over a loaded cupboard and Bidened it up

We never win the conference

Bragging about being tied for 5th is insane.

��. Hilarious

[BuckyIsAB****]

Dude- U dumb af. Wow

Something about facts over feelings durka durka durr

[Santiago]

Sooooooo- we sweeped Auburn- which UPig and Tennessee couldnt do. What say u if we take the road series from Candy this weekend? What say you if we sweep Bammer at home?

Glad we swept Auburn. Hope we sweep every week.
But the (2) 7 inning games helped us more than Auburn with our thin SEC level pitching staff

[StarkVegasSteve]

Oh you are educating me for sure. Not how you think you are.

That was Polk 2. Lemon took over a loaded cupboard and Bidened it up

Actually no it wasn't. 09 and 10 were both Cohen. Polk announced his retirement early in the 08 season.

[Santiago]

Bama has a coach get caught gambling last year. They lose players both to the draft and transfer.
Bring in a really good coach from Maryland.

So far this year he has taken 2 of 3 from Tennessee and Arkansas. They are not making excuses or saying lower expectations. They will finish ahead of us this season, pending any unforeseen issues with Ole Miss, Us, LSU and Auburn.
We have not played and will not play this year most of the top half of the league. But we are currently saying hold on to Lemonis because we are 5th, as currently we have only won 1 series against a team projected into the CWS regionals.

It is frustrating to Alabama make an upgrade hire, and make no excuses for their expectation to win. But here we say "historically though", and we are told not to expect too much compared to the last 10 years.

[DawgFromOxford]

cool. We on the same page.

Pleasure doing business with you lol

[Coach34]

Bama has a coach get caught gambling last year. They lose players both to the draft and transfer.
Bring in a really good coach from Maryland.

So far this year he has taken 2 of 3 from Tennessee and Arkansas. They are not making excuses or saying lower expectations. They will finish ahead of us this season, pending any unforeseen issues with Ole Miss, Us, LSU and Auburn.
We have not played and will not play this year most of the top half of the league. But we are currently saying hold on to Lemonis because we are 5th, as currently we have only won 1 series against a team projected into the CWS regionals.

It is frustrating to Alabama make an upgrade hire, and make no excuses for their expectation to win. But here we say "historically though", and we are told not to expect too much compared to the last 10 years.

Andddddd we have a better record than Bama

[Homedawg]

Small correction- Polk won 4. 79, 85, 87, 89

Once Bertman got entrenched at LSU? Polk was bounced back a level

87 was the sec tournament.... got in as the last seed which was 6th in a 10 team league

[Coach34]

We have not played and will not play this year most of the top half of the league. But we are currently saying hold on to Lemonis because we are 5th, as currently we have only won 1 series against a team projected into the CWS regionals.

I love a good narrative change. Before the season started, it was "our SEC schedule is brutal. No way Lemon survives it. We gonna start 1-8 in the SEC"

Now???? We havent played a tough enough SEC schedule.....you can't make this shit up if you tried.

[Santiago]

Andddddd we have a better record than Bama

Bama is about to play all the teams we played in the front half of the season. It is pretty clear they now get their easy part of the schedule.
They took 2 of 3 from teams we are just hoping to get 1 win on the weekend from.
Their RPI is 17

[Santiago]

I love a good narrative change. Before the season started, it was "our SEC schedule is brutal. No way Lemon survives it. We gonna start 1-8 in the SEC"

Now???? We havent played a tough enough SEC schedule.....you can't make this shit up if you tried.

I did not say that, so please post onto someone else's comments about some narrative change.

My thoughts pre-season is he has all the opportunity in the world to get wins this year....then we played Air Force.

[Todd4State]

The expectation every year is to make a Super Regional. We have historically been one of the top programs in the SEC throughout every decade except for maybe the Polk 2 era.

Just because we hit our ceiling between 2011-2021 it doesn't mean that shouldn't be our norm especially when it was our norm for 10 years in a row.

[Coach34]

The expectation every year is to make a Super Regional. We have historically been one of the top programs in the SEC throughout every decade except for maybe the Polk 2 era.

Just because we hit our ceiling between 2011-2021 it doesn't mean that shouldn't be our norm especially when it was our norm for 10 years in a row.

SEC teams that make the Tourney on the reg will make some Supers- usually the Top 8 in the SEC are among the 25 best in the country.

[Todd4State]

SEC teams that make the Tourney on the reg will make some Supers- usually the Top 8 in the SEC are among the 25 best in the country.

Yes that is true.

But all seasons are not created equal. There is a big difference in 2014 and 2022 where we had a losing season.

Neither season met our standard but one was a lot more acceptable than the other.

Seasons are measured based on what the team does in the postseason and championships. Which is why winning the SEC or SEC Tournament and not making a Super Regional still meets our standards.

[StarkVegasSteve]

Yes that is true.

But all seasons are not created equal. There is a big difference in 2014 and 2022 where we had a losing season.

Neither season met our standard but one was a lot more acceptable than the other.

Seasons are measured based on what the team does in the postseason and championships. Which is why winning the SEC or SEC Tournament and not making a Super Regional still meets our standards.

I could care less if we ever win an SEC Championship or a game in the SECT again. Do damage in a tournament that actually matters.

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

Andddddd we have a better record than Bama

Couple weeks ago you made a whole thread about up being ranked proving the team was good.

But now that we're unranked and Bama is, it's record that matters? Wait what happens the T25 rankings being your metric of choice?

It's almost like you cherry-pick stats that suit your agenda and discard them when they quit being useful

And with respect to record, we DO have a better record than Bama. It's almost like they have the #5 SOS and us #44...

[Coach34]

Couple weeks ago you made a whole thread about up being ranked proving the team was good.

But now that we're unranked and Bama is, it's record that matters? Wait what happens the T25 rankings being your metric of choice?

It's almost like you cherry-pick stats that suit your agenda and discard them when they quit being useful

And with respect to record, we DO have a better record than Bama. It's almost like they have the #5 SOS and us #44...

I'm just enjoying the season and all that it brings. We have a pretty even match-up this weekend and I think we have a chance to steal a series on the road. Then we get your awesome Bama team at home and another series win.

[Todd4State]

I could care less if we ever win an SEC Championship or a game in the SECT again. Do damage in a tournament that actually matters.

While those are not our ultimate final goal they do matter. Winning the SEC means we won 20+ SEC games in all likelihood. Winning the SEC Tournament means you win the nations most prestigious conference tournament.

All of it adds to our resume.'

[BrunswickDawg]

While those are not our ultimate final goal they do matter. Winning the SEC means we won 20+ SEC games in all likelihood. Winning the SEC Tournament means you win the nations most prestigious conference tournament.

All of it adds to our resume.'

Which maybe matters for national seeding, but has little relation to post-season performance.
As we've seen, it's possible for the last seed in the tournament to win a CWS. Coastal Carolina was roughly a #17 seed when they won. Virginia was in the 40s when they won in '15 (a #3 seed in the #16 seeds regional). Winning outside the top 16 seeds is a regular occurrence in baseball. Personally, the ability of ANY team that makes the post season to win the CWS is why I feel strongly about our standard being "make the tourney". Anything over that is gravy.

[Commercecomet24]

Which maybe matters for national seeding, but has little relation to post-season performance.
As we've seen, it's possible for the last seed in the tournament to win a CWS. Coastal Carolina was roughly a #17 seed when they won. Virginia was in the 40s when they won in '15 (a #3 seed in the #16 seeds regional). Winning outside the top 16 seeds is a regular occurrence in baseball. Personally, the ability of ANY team that makes the post season to win the CWS is why I feel strongly about our standard being "make the tourney". Anything over that is gravy.

We must've been separated at birth, we think to much alike. And "just making the tourney" doesn't mean we just settle for that, in baseball, at any level if you make the tournament you have a shot at winning it all(see rangers/diamondbacks in mlb last year). Heck I wished we would go undefeated in baseball every year but that's just not the way it works.

[Todd4State]

Which maybe matters for national seeding, but has little relation to post-season performance.
As we've seen, it's possible for the last seed in the tournament to win a CWS. Coastal Carolina was roughly a #17 seed when they won. Virginia was in the 40s when they won in '15 (a #3 seed in the #16 seeds regional). Winning outside the top 16 seeds is a regular occurrence in baseball. Personally, the ability of ANY team that makes the post season to win the CWS is why I feel strongly about our standard being "make the tourney". Anything over that is gravy.

Winning the SEC and the SEC Tournament are things that we can sell to recruits. It shows that a program is relatively strong despite "that's baseball" happening in the regionals.

Postseason performance matters on some level. You have to get it done in the postseason and the best get it done when the lights are on.

Making it to a regional means you are a good SEC team. Making it to a Super Regional means that you are an elite team. We are an elite program and thus the expectations should match that.

[StarkVegasSteve]

While those are not our ultimate final goal they do matter. Winning the SEC means we won 20+ SEC games in all likelihood. Winning the SEC Tournament means you win the nations most prestigious conference tournament.

All of it adds to our resume.'

I will give you that winning the SEC means winning 20+ conference games, which basically locks you in to be a national seed. But the SECT is getting more and more pointless as the years go by. It's kind of important for bubble teams, but for teams locked into the tournament it could not matter less. For example:

2012: We win it and are still a 2 seed.
2021: We get run ruled 2 straight games and are still a national seed.

If you are already locked in to the tournament, you should treat any game before Saturday like a midweek. I have never seen a team go into that tournament on the outside looking in to host and get to host due to their SECT performance. The hay is basically in the barn by the time Hoover comes around. Hell, Ray Tanner was 2-6 in Hoover from 2010-2012 and won 2 national championships and was runner up for another.

[Todd4State]

I will give you that winning the SEC means winning 20+ conference games, which basically locks you in to be a national seed. But the SECT is getting more and more pointless as the years go by. It's kind of important for bubble teams, but for teams locked into the tournament it could not matter less. For example:

2012: We win it and are still a 2 seed.
2021: We get run ruled 2 straight games and are still a national seed.

If you are already locked in to the tournament, you should treat any game before Saturday like a midweek. I have never seen a team go into that tournament on the outside looking in to host and get to host due to their SECT performance. The hay is basically in the barn by the time Hoover comes around. Hell, Ray Tanner was 2-6 in Hoover from 2010-2012 and won 2 national championships and was runner up for another.

Oh I understand it's a cash grab and it has little to no effect on the postseason.

But it is a point of pride and it is recorded on the outfield wall when you win it. It's something we sell to recruits in terms of how many times we've won it. Winning the SEC Tournament is the most important or ultimate goal but winning it also isn't a bad thing either.

[StarkVegasSteve]

Oh I understand it's a cash grab and it has little to no effect on the postseason.

But it is a point of pride and it is recorded on the outfield wall when you win it. It's something we sell to recruits in terms of how many times we've won it. Winning the SEC Tournament is the most important or ultimate goal but winning it also isn't a bad thing either.

Yea I mean if we happen to win it then great, but we don't need to go all out to do it. I honestly would prefer to have the top 2 teams have a 3 game series that weekend. Top team gets to host. That would draw more than a regional or Super if it was us vs Arky or us vs LSU. Or god forbid, it was us vs OM.

[BrunswickDawg]

Winning the SEC and the SEC Tournament are things that we can sell to recruits. It shows that a program is relatively strong despite "that's baseball" happening in the regionals.

Postseason performance matters on some level. You have to get it done in the postseason and the best get it done when the lights are on.

Making it to a regional means you are a good SEC team. Making it to a Super Regional means that you are an elite team. We are an elite program and thus the expectations should match that.

I'm just going to have to disagree on this completely. Our 2011 team is great example. Good team. Lots of dirtbags. 3 very young future MLB players. Fun as hell to watch. Squeaked into post season with a 14-16 SEC record because of a great May. 2 and Q at the SEC Tournament. Sweep thru Atlanta at the GT Regional and get to within 3 outs of Omaha. Love that team - they were not elite. They are the prime example of a good team getting hot and riding the wave.

[BrunswickDawg]

We must've been separated at birth, we think to much alike. And "just making the tourney" doesn't mean we just settle for that, in baseball, at any level if you make the tournament you have a shot at winning it all(see rangers/diamondbacks in mlb last year). Heck I wished we would go undefeated in baseball every year but that's just not the way it works.

I'm one of those guys that hated losing more than I liked winning. I want to win everything. It took a lot of losing for me to get past that. And, if I couldn't take it, and get back up, and dusty myself off, and go try to win again there is no way in hell I'd be an MSU fan. Baseball is so unique in the way that the Best team doesn't always win. The most Talented team can come in last. It's the most humbling team sport there is. It is ruled by fickle gods that are quick to anger and enjoy torturing us. They take pleasure in seeing things like line drives off Gene Morgan break peoples hearts as much as they love giving us Burke Masters and Elijah Macnamee. And those of us fool enough to enjoy it always come back for more.

[Commercecomet24]

I'm one of those guys that hated losing more than I liked winning. I want to win everything. It took a lot of losing for me to get past that. And, if I couldn't take it, and get back up, and dusty myself off, and go try to win again there is no way in hell I'd be an MSU fan. Baseball is so unique in the way that the Best team doesn't always win. The most Talented team can come in last. It's the most humbling team sport there is. It is ruled by fickle gods that are quick to anger and enjoy torturing us. They take pleasure in seeing things like line drives off Gene Morgan break peoples hearts as much as they love giving us Burke Masters and Elijah Macnamee. And those of us fool enough to enjoy it always come back for more.

Yep 100%! Baseball is just different. Now way the 68th best basketball team wins the ncaa tournament or the 25th best football team wins an nc, but these things happen in baseball constantly, and a lot of folks don't understand it.

In your list of those bummers you can add Lonnie Smitn not scoring from first on the double in game 7 of 91 World Series or Wohlers 2 strike slider to Jim Leyritz in 96 when the Braves were on the verge of going up 3 games to none. Bart Giamatti wrote a poem about baseball and it's the best description I can think of for the game. Those of us who have it in our blood understand the meaning!

[Baseball] breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone.

A. Bartlett Giamatti

[basedog]

Yep 100%! Baseball is just different. Now way the 68th best basketball team wins the ncaa tournament or the 25th best football team wins an nc, but these things happen in baseball constantly, and a lot of folks don't understand it.

In your list of those bummers you can add Lonnie Smitn not scoring from first on the double in game 7 of 91 World Series or Wohlers 2 strike slider to Jim Leyritz in 96 when the Braves were on the verge of going up 3 games to none. Bart Giamatti wrote a poem about baseball and it's the best description I can think of for the game. Those of us who have it in our blood understand the meaning!

[Baseball] breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring, when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone.

A. Bartlett Giamatti

24, check your inbox.

[Todd4State]

I'm just going to have to disagree on this completely. Our 2011 team is great example. Good team. Lots of dirtbags. 3 very young future MLB players. Fun as hell to watch. Squeaked into post season with a 14-16 SEC record because of a great May. 2 and Q at the SEC Tournament. Sweep thru Atlanta at the GT Regional and get to within 3 outs of Omaha. Love that team - they were not elite. They are the prime example of a good team getting hot and riding the wave.

That's how it is with baseball sometimes. Very rarely is a team so dominant that they go through the season playing up to elite status.

But if a team is playing well at the end of the season when it counts then the 14-16 SEC record doesn't matter because they won when it mattered the absolute most. And that's what we all expect from our team as MSU fans. That team eventually earned their place among the best teams in college baseball.

My expectations kind of protect against teams that perform well in the regular season only or the postseason only. It all about the sum of the whole.

[Todd4State]

Plus I'll add- it's way too easy to simply make a regional now. There are 64 teams and you basically are a lock if you're in the top 10 of the league. If we go 13-17 and make a regional and then don't make it past the regional that's not a great season IMO.

[Quaoarsking]

The format of the NCAA tournament doesn't really do a good job of determining the best team in country. Every year you have a couple teams in Omaha that's nowhere near the best 8 teams, and a couple teams who clearly are and didn't make it.

I've kicked around a format in my head something like this: 8 regionals of 8 teams, but everyone plays a full round-robin over the course of 2 weekends. So Friday-Saturday-Sunday, a "midweek" game, and another Friday-Saturday-Sunday. The top team in each regional makes it to Omaha, with ties played off on Monday.

You would still see some upsets, but I think this format would do a much better job of getting the best teams into Omaha. Sometimes you see teams make it who aren't that good and didn't even beat anybody good either.

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

Plus I'll add- it's way too easy to simply make a regional now. There are 64 teams and you basically are a lock if you're in the top 10 of the league. If we go 13-17 and make a regional and then don't make it past the regional that's not a great season IMO.

Yeah there's like 30 automatic qualifiers, about 4-5 will be won by teams that would have made it anyway. Basically, be a top 35-40 team and you'll be an at large bid. We are a top 20 program in literally every metric (NIL, history, coaching budget, ect) and are top 10 in several. We should honestly NEVER miss the NCAAT. I'm willing to give a mulligan to an otherwise promising coach and ignore a miss, but it should be rare.