Cheese Can't Coach 3B anymore, C'Mon

[The Federalist Engineer]

Lemons better go coach 3rd. Or any local 3rd-grader, Little Leaguer in Starkville can coach better base-running than Cheese.

Glad for the Sweep.

[Pancho]

geez

[Commercecomet24]

geez

Indeed!

[Coach34]

What did I miss Cheese doing today?

He literally wasn’t a factor for Downs or Larry

[Commercecomet24]

What did I miss Cheese doing today?

He literally wasn?t a factor for Downs or Larry

Yeah downs was 100% on him and then some. Larry if he doesn't break for home they turn a double play and the inning is over by him getting the throw him it actually gave us another chance to win the game with Dakota at second(didn't happen but it gave us another shot) and that certainly wasn't on cheese.

I guarantee you the last thing downs heard from cheese was don't get picked!

[The Federalist Engineer]

Yeah downs was 100% on him and then some. Larry if he doesn't break for home they turn a double play and the inning is over by him getting the throw him it actually gave us another chance to win the game with Dakota at second(didn't happen but it gave us another shot) and that certainly wasn't on cheese.

I guarantee you the last thing downs heard from cheese was don't get picked!

Looking at the play, the Auburn kid should have gone for two regardless. But his look at 3rd was an instinctual delay for the DP. Maybe he was scared of skinny Hunter beating the throw to first.

It was an Auburn error before it was a MSU base running error. But still a mistake, just good fortune the Auburn kid was frazzled. Finally got lucky the other guys messed up more.

With a person already in scoring position what is the point of bunting with 9 hole coming up. Don't know if Cheese makes that bunt call but downs only value as a PR is to score on a hit. Which you should from 2nd without Ricky Henderson as the PR. Even Sid Bream on two busted knees could do it.

Happy with the W but these are the little things that cost Ws. 3 already this year.

[Commercecomet24]

Looking at the play, the Auburn kid should have gone for two regardless. But his look at 3rd was an instinctual delay for the DP. Maybe he was scared of skinny Hunter beating the throw to first.

It was an Auburn error before it was a MSU base running error. But still a mistake, just good fortune the Auburn kid was frazzled. Finally got lucky the other guys messed up more.

With a person already in scoring position what is the point of bunting with 9 hole coming up. Don't know if Cheese makes that bunt call but downs only value as a PR is to score on a hit. Which you should from 2nd without Ricky Henderson as the PR. Even Sid Bream on two busted knees could do it.

Happy with the W but these are the little things that cost Ws. 3 already this year.

I agree on Auburn pitcher thought when Hines . first hit it double play.

The pickoff was all on downs. Remember they had a pitching change right after the Kohler double and Lemonis and cheese were talking to pulliam and downs the whole time the kid was warming up telling them what was going down. You never repeat never anticipate a bunt getting down. They are all trained to first make sure the ball is bunted and second make sure it's not pooped up before going. The ball has to be bunted on the ground before you break. Downs anticipated the bunt going down and went to far. Stupid base running mistake by him. Never anticipate the bunt getting down. You wind up picked or doubled on a bunt popup. Nothing cheese could do about downs

ETA our baserunning is awful at times but it's 90% on the players and the bunt today was called by Lemonis not cheese(I hate bunting by the way)

[Leeshouldveflanked]

Downs was 100% on Downs. But Hujsack, Downs, Larry, Jordan, Mershon have all had WTH moments on the base paths this season that is either lack of awareness, lack of focus or bad coaching.

[maroonmania]

Downs was 100% on Downs. But Hujsack, Downs, Larry, Jordan, Mershon have all had WTH moments on the base paths this season that is either lack of awareness, lack of focus or bad coaching.

It's just a continued pattern under this coaching staff though of a lack of attention to detail. Glad we still won but we make blunders on the bases and in the field that shouldn't happen in high school, much less from an SEC program. Justin Parker and his handling of the pitching staff is THE difference in this team from the past 2 years. You won't sweep a DH 10% of the time when you don't score over 4 runs in either game. Especially when it's the last 2 games of the weekend.

[Coach34]

Justin Parker and his handling of the pitching staff is THE difference in this team from the past 2 years. .

Being 9th in the country in Fielding percentage probably has something to do with it also wouldnt you say? We are elite defensively

[BrunswickDawg]

It's just a continued pattern under this coaching staff though of a lack of attention to detail. Glad we still won but we make blunders on the bases and in the field that shouldn't happen in high school, much less from an SEC program. Justin Parker and his handling of the pitching staff is THE difference in this team from the past 2 years. You won't sweep a DH 10% of the time when don't score over 4 runs in either game. Especially when it's the last 2 games of the weekend.

Don't discount the impact that improved defense has had. We've essentially gone from worst to first in defense. It is partially a by-product of the improved pitching - but players still have to execute.

College Baseball is rife with bad baserunning. If you watch more than MSU, you see it everywhere. And the mistakes are just as boneheaded. And it's not just CBB - look at this from last year:
https://theathletic.com/4220827/2023/02/17/bad-mlb-baserunning/ - MLB is even discussing how bad they are now.

I was a very good baserunner in HS - and it frustrates the hell out of me seeing the mistakes we make. But, as the article above discusses, it's a game-wide issue because the fundamentals aren't taught like my generation learned them in the 80s.

[Commercecomet24]

Don't discount the impact that improved defense has had. We've essentially gone from worst to first in defense. It is partially a by-product of the improved pitching - but players still have to execute.

College Baseball is rife with bad baserunning. If you watch more than MSU, you see it everywhere. And the mistakes are just as boneheaded. And it's not just CBB - look at this from last year:
https://theathletic.com/4220827/2023/02/17/bad-mlb-baserunning/ - MLB is even discussing how bad they are now.

I was a very good baserunner in HS - and it frustrates the hell out of me seeing the mistakes we make. But, as the article above discusses, it's a game-wide issue because the fundamentals aren't taught like my generation learned them in the 80s.

Bruns you always know exactly what you're talking about and it's dead on accurate! The fundamentals are being lost because kids are chasing launch angle, exit velo, spin rate,etc, etc... Watch every level heck even mlb. Bad baserunning, players can't execute bunts, missed cutoff men, hit and run, changing speeds. All these things take time and kids are not being taught these things at a younger level so they're not fundamentally sound like generations before. Like you said watch some other teams or mlb and you'll see it ain't just us!

[Coursesuper]

Bruns you always know exactly what you're talking about and it's dead on accurate! The fundamentals are being lost because kids are chasing launch angle, exit velo, spin rate,etc, etc... Watch every level heck even mlb. Bad baserunning, players can't execute bunts, missed cutoff men, hit and run, changing speeds. All these things take time and kids are not being taught these things at a younger level so they're not fundamentally sound like generations before. Like you said watch some other teams or mlb and you'll see it ain't just us!

Bingo, you are exactly correct.

[maroonmania]

Being 9th in the country in Fielding percentage probably has something to do with it also wouldnt you say? We are elite defensively

No doubt, I will agree that has been quite an improvement as well. Pitching and defense are sort of intertwined anyway. We've had some errors that have happened at bad times that have cost us games (like the Kohler error at FL or the Larry error at OM) but overall no doubt that area has been a plus for us this year.

[StarkVegasSteve]

Bruns you always know exactly what you're talking about and it's dead on accurate! The fundamentals are being lost because kids are chasing launch angle, exit velo, spin rate,etc, etc... Watch every level heck even mlb. Bad baserunning, players can't execute bunts, missed cutoff men, hit and run, changing speeds. All these things take time and kids are not being taught these things at a younger level so they're not fundamentally sound like generations before. Like you said watch some other teams or mlb and you'll see it ain't just us!

Or, and Commerce this is something you and I have discussed, Players being able TO GO THE OTHER WAY. Hines did it yesterday and I almost fell off the rig I was standing on. I think I've seen him do it twice in his career.

[Commercecomet24]

Or, and Commerce this is something you and I have discussed, Players being able TO GO THE OTHER WAY. Hines did it yesterday and I almost fell off the rig I was standing on. I think I've seen him do it twice in his career.

Oh heck yeah you're 100% right! We have 4 players I've seen who will use the whole field. Mershon, Hujsak, Chance and Long. Watch Hujsak when he gets to 2 strikes, he actually chokes up! I know he screwed up at third getting picked off but the guy is just fundamentally sound in all he does and watch him leave the box on anything he hits it's 100% all out. He's a throwback as well as those others I mention. Love watching players that play it the right way.

Wanna be a complete hitter, learn to use the whole field!

Great post, my man!

[StarkVegasSteve]

Oh heck yeah you're 100% right! We have 4 players I've seen who will use the whole field. Mershon, Hujsak, Chance and Long. Watch Hujsak when he gets to 2 strikes, he actually chokes up! I know he screwed up at third getting picked off but the guy is just fundamentally sound in all he does and watch him leave the box on anything he hits it's 100% all out. He's a throwback as well as those others I mention. Love watching players that play it the right way.

Wanna be a complete hitter, learn to use the whole field!

Great post, my man!

I have been really impressed with Hujsak's approach the entire year. I had way more confidence in him or Chance at the plate yesterday than I did Dakota and Hines. I just know they aren't going to try and hit it over the Sanderson Center every AB.

[Commercecomet24]

I have been really impressed with Hujsak's approach the entire year. I had way more confidence in him or Chance at the plate yesterday than I did Dakota and Hines. I just know they aren't going to try and hit it over the Sanderson Center every AB.

Man 100% on that. Those 2 are making things happen! If we could get Jordan and Hines going in front of them this lineup(even with the holes), could really be something. Just seems like Jordan and Hines are K ing a lot with runners on. You just know Hujsak and Chance are gonna at least put it in play. And credit to Chance he's stepped up cause he was bad early on. Hard work on his part and he's over 300 now with some power and clutch hitting.

[sandjunky]

Being 9th in the country in Fielding percentage probably has something to do with it also wouldnt you say? We are elite defensively

They were elite defensively in 2022 as well

[StarkVegasSteve]

Or, and Commerce this is something you and I have discussed, Players being able TO GO THE OTHER WAY. Hines did it yesterday and I almost fell off the rig I was standing on. I think I've seen him do it twice in his career.

Yea Dakota has struggled, by his standards, the last 5 games. Need to get him going again.

[Lord McBuckethead]

Downs was 100% on Downs. But Hujsack, Downs, Larry, Jordan, Mershon have all had WTH moments on the base paths this season that is either lack of awareness, lack of focus or bad coaching.

None of that is on Cheese. Our players are the ones doing it, at least the ones I have witnessed.

Damn guys, put up the damn pitch forks. Seriously. Not everything has a deeper reason than?. Our guy F?ed up.

[Commercecomet24]

None of that is on Cheese. Our players are the ones doing it, at least the ones I have witnessed.

Damn guys, put up the damn pitch forks. Seriously. Not everything has a deeper reason than?. Our guy F?ed up.

This guy gets it! Sometimes baseball players do stupid stuff, it happens. I've seen the best of the best do stuff that makes you go "did he really just do that?" What the heck!

[BrunswickDawg]

Bruns you always know exactly what you're talking about and it's dead on accurate! The fundamentals are being lost because kids are chasing launch angle, exit velo, spin rate,etc, etc... Watch every level heck even mlb. Bad baserunning, players can't execute bunts, missed cutoff men, hit and run, changing speeds. All these things take time and kids are not being taught these things at a younger level so they're not fundamentally sound like generations before. Like you said watch some other teams or mlb and you'll see it ain't just us!

Drives me crazy. All those things are what MADE ballplayers when we were coming along. You would struggle to make your high school team if you couldn't execute those fundamentals. And even then, that's almost all we worked on in practice. Over and over again. I swear we spent more time on those things then we did hitting. 10 cuts each in BP everyday for 6 weeks was all you got to get ready for the season. Need more - go to Bat n' Pac (it was an arcade with batting cages) and pay 50 cents for 20 balls on the "fast" machine and figure it out on your own! Strike outs are fine, but if you miss the cut-off man you are running foul poles after the game!

[Commercecomet24]

Drives me crazy. All those things are what MADE ballplayers when we were coming along. You would struggle to make your high school team if you couldn't execute those fundamentals. And even then, that's almost all we worked on in practice. Over and over again. I swear we spent more time on those things then we did hitting. 10 cuts each in BP everyday for 6 weeks was all you got to get ready for the season. Need more - go to Bat n' Pac (it was an arcade with batting cages) and pay 50 cents for 20 balls on the "fast" machine and figure it out on your own! Strike outs are fine, but if you miss the cut-off man you are running foul poles after the game!

Me, you and so many others grew up learning the same way. Baseball is a long season and games are long. Those fundamental things may seem trite but over the course of a season(or game), those things can be the difference between winning and also ran!

Think about this too. How many reps did we get playing sandlot baseball with our buddies? Kids don't do this anymore. We literally got thousands of reps just playing in the backyard and that's how you learn the game. Those reps you learn what can work and what won't work!

[Commercecomet24]

This doesn't necessarily apply to this thread, but it has to do with how baseball is so different now. i watched a video(and i remember watching this game)1977 playoffs, Yankees/Royals. Brett hits a gapper and is going for 3. Throws coming he slides HARD into Nettles at third. Nettles kicks him and Brett comes up and punches him. Both benches clear and there quite a scuffle. Know how many were ejected? Not one player! The umpires could be seen warning them but no ejections and they went back to playing ball! 2 weeks ago it took 45 minutes and replays and ejections of half the teams for a little knee bump at home plate! Holy crap things have changed too much!

[magrooder]

This doesn't necessarily apply to this thread, but it has to do with how baseball is so different now. i watched a video(and i remember watching this game)1977 playoffs, Yankees/Royals. Brett hits a gapper and is going for 3. Throws coming he slides HARD into Nettles at third. Nettles kicks him and Brett comes up and punches him. Both benches clear and there quite a scuffle. Know how many were ejected? Not one player! The umpires could be seen warning them but no ejections and they went back to playing ball! 2 weeks ago it took 45 minutes and replays and ejections of half the teams for a little knee bump at home plate! Holy crap things have changed too much!

That's right. I played back when the catcher could block the plate and you could run over him and despite my small size I took every opportunity to do just that. Nobody even got mad when it happened, just part of the game.

[BrunswickDawg]

Me, you and so many others grew up learning the same way. Baseball is a long season and games are long. Those fundamental things may seem trite but over the course of a season(or game), those things can be the difference between winning and also ran!

Think about this too. How many reps did we get playing sandlot baseball with our buddies? Kids don't do this anymore. We literally got thousands of reps just playing in the backyard and that's how you learn the game. Those reps you learn what can work and what won't work!

We devised a 2 v 2 baseball game with ghost runners that we played in the street. Defense 2 played pitcher and outfield; offense 2 batted and caught. Batted balls had to land between the curbs to be "fair" hits. We played that game endlessly.
My Dad also grew up going to Savannah and playing "half-rubber" and taught us - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Half-rubber.
Learned a lot about pitching and hitting using a broom stick to hit a rubber ball cut in half.

From the time school let out in June, my typical day was - street ball from 9 - 3; swim for a bit to cool of and rest; eat then go to the park for a 6:30 or 7:30 game; play the game then get picked up by another team who was missing a player and play another game; play "cup-ball", pickle, or pepper until they turned the lights off at 10:00. Go home. Get up next day and do it again. This lasted until All-Stars started in mid-July. If I didn't make All-Stars, I was down in Statesboro for Georgia Southern Baseball Camp for at least a 1 week session, 2 some years if my parents could afford it. And Coach Stallings at GS was a hard-nosed old school guy, so all you did at that camp was fundamental drills and scrimmage. I hated it when school started back.

[Commercecomet24]

We devised a 2 v 2 baseball game with ghost runners that we played in the street. Defense 2 played pitcher and outfield; offense 2 batted and caught. Batted balls had to land between the curbs to be "fair" hits. We played that game endlessly.
My Dad also grew up going to Savannah and playing "half-rubber" and taught us - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Half-rubber.
Learned a lot about pitching and hitting using a broom stick to hit a rubber ball cut in half.

From the time school let out in June, my typical day was - street ball from 9 - 3; swim for a bit to cool of and rest; eat then go to the park for a 6:30 or 7:30 game; play the game then get picked up by another team who was missing a player and play another game; play "cup-ball", pickle, or pepper until they turned the lights off at 10:00. Go home. Get up next day and do it again. This lasted until All-Stars started in mid-July. If I didn't make All-Stars, I was down in Statesboro for Georgia Southern Baseball Camp for at least a 1 week session, 2 some years if my parents could afford it. And Coach Stallings at GS was a hard-nosed old school guy, so all you did at that camp was fundamental drills and scrimmage. I hated it when school started back.

Yep that was pretty much my summers in a nutshell! Depression always hit me when school started back! The good ol days and great memories! I miss em!

I taught my boys like I was taught and they grew up playing the game hard. Sometimes to hard for some of the softies that are out there now! My youngest son when he was 9, he drilled a hitter in the ribs after his teammate had just knocked our catcher out with a an elbow to the head trying to score. He threw hard and the kid cried but they didn't do that stuff anymore lol!

[Commercecomet24]

That's right. I played back when the catcher could block the plate and you could run over him and despite my small size I took every opportunity to do just that. Nobody even got mad when it happened, just part of the game.

Right! And breaking up double plays, sliding hard, etc... Like you said very rarely did anyone get mad it's just how you played the game. And if someone did get upset you settled it on the field by someone catching a heater in the ribs or something. Great times!

[Todd4State]

This doesn't necessarily apply to this thread, but it has to do with how baseball is so different now. i watched a video(and i remember watching this game)1977 playoffs, Yankees/Royals. Brett hits a gapper and is going for 3. Throws coming he slides HARD into Nettles at third. Nettles kicks him and Brett comes up and punches him. Both benches clear and they're quite a scuffle. Know how many were ejected? Not one player! The umpires could be seen warning them but no ejections and they went back to playing ball! 2 weeks ago it took 45 minutes and replays and ejections of half the teams for a little knee bump at home plate! Holy crap things have changed too much!

Funny story about that game. My uncle told me that they used to call Nettles "Poof" because he would start a fight and everyone would look around and he would be gone.

[Todd4State]

Me, you and so many others grew up learning the same way. Baseball is a long season and games are long. Those fundamental things may seem trite but over the course of a season(or game), those things can be the difference between winning and also ran!

Think about this too. How many reps did we get playing sandlot baseball with our buddies? Kids don't do this anymore. We literally got thousands of reps just playing in the backyard and that's how you learn the game. Those reps you learn what can work and what won't work!

Everyone is expecting everyone to pass the buck. The trainers expect the travel ball and high school coaches to teach the game to the players. A lot of the strength coaches don't know the game. And the travel ball coaches either expect the players to have learned or they're worried about what Mommy and Daddy will think if they're not letting the kid swing for the fences every plate appearance.

[ScooterDog]

This comment should probably be directed to a new thread, but there is a lot of different comments already here. So, here goes: I haven?t seen any double steals this year. I haven?t missed but one or games. Polk used to do this frequently and the crowd loved it. Is the problem (1) coaching, (2) lack of speed on base pads, or (3) we don?t get 2 men on base very often? Or something else? I am not a baseball guru, but I love the sort. Your comments please. . . .

[BrunswickDawg]

This comment should probably be directed to a new thread, but there is a lot of different comments already here. So, here goes: I haven?t seen any double steals this year. I haven?t missed but one or games. Polk used to do this frequently and the crowd loved it. Is the problem (1) coaching, (2) lack of speed on base pads, or (3) we don?t get 2 men on base very often? Or something else? I am not a baseball guru, but I love the sort. Your comments please. . . .

You don't see it much in college ball at all anymore. I'm sure it's a "metrics" thing that says the odds are bad (which they are). Again that's a skill that goes back to baserunning. You have to have guys who know what they are doing to pull off the double steal. Especially the lead runner.

[BigDawg81]

Yeah downs was 100% on him and then some. Larry if he doesn't break for home they turn a double play and the inning is over by him getting the throw him it actually gave us another chance to win the game with Dakota at second(didn't happen but it gave us another shot) and that certainly wasn't on cheese.

I guarantee you the last thing downs heard from cheese was don't get picked!

I disagree with Larry. You make them turn that double play. That double play wasn?t guaranteed

[Commercecomet24]

I disagree with Larry. You make them turn that double play. That double play wasn?t guaranteed

So you would have Larry just stay at third then and even if they don't get the double play you're almost in the same boat. 2 out and still need a hit. While the double play not guaranteed Hines can't run and the ball was hit pretty hard. Taylor made double play. Was pretty sure it was a contact play anyways cause Larry was off on contact, so really moot point.

[Cooterpoot]

Cheese doesn't have us a good catcher AGAIN and base running is trash. Y'all tell me what he does to deserve a spot here other than being Lemonis version of Hevesy. Seriously, what does he do well here? I'm asking

[Coach34]

Cheese doesn't have us a good catcher AGAIN and base running is trash. Y'all tell me what he does to deserve a spot here other than being Lemonis version of Hevesy. Seriously, what does he do well here? I'm asking

Well considering we lost our starting catcher and are playing back-ups? I think we are doing a pretty good job at Catcher

Hugesak and Downs being morons just can’t be blamed on Cheese. Hugesak almost got picked at 2nd when he took too big of a turn on a hit the LF. The play was literally right in front of him and he damn near got hosed. That’s just a dumb player. Shit Cheese told him to hold up. You just have to overcome morons on your team

I’ll give Lebbo some credit. He got rid of our 2 stupid WR’s from last season. Let them be somebody else’s problem

[BrunswickDawg]

Well considering we lost our starting catcher and are playing back-ups? I think we are doing a pretty good job at Catcher

Hugesak and Downs being morons just can’t be blamed on Cheese. Hugesak almost got picked at 2nd when he took too big of a turn on a hit the LF. The play was literally right in front of him and he damn near got hosed. That’s just a dumb player. Shit Cheese told him to hold up. You just have to overcome morons on your team

I’ll give Lebbo some credit. He got rid of our 2 stupid WR’s from last season. Let them be somebody else’s problem

Not just a backup catcher - our 3rd string catcher for most of the season. I'm not sure that many teams carry a true third catcher, they are usually "emergency" catchers who are walk on's who warm people up in the bullpen.
For all the gripping about our catchers - SEC teams have only attempted 6 steals against us (which is the 2nd least in the conference), and we only have 3 passed balls in conference games - so I'm trying to figure out what all the bitching is about.
Catchers like LoTan who are elite defensively and offensively are rare.

[Cooterpoot]

Well considering we lost our starting catcher and are playing back-ups? I think we are doing a pretty good job at Catcher

Hugesak and Downs being morons just can?t be blamed on Cheese. Hugesak almost got picked at 2nd when he took too big of a turn on a hit the LF. The play was literally right in front of him and he damn near got hosed. That?s just a dumb player. Shit Cheese told him to hold up. You just have to overcome morons on your team

I?ll give Lebbo some credit. He got rid of our 2 stupid WR?s from last season. Let them be somebody else?s problem

We didn't have a good catcher last year. Highfill was as marginal as it comes. Long isn't good and Powell rarely plays. Baserunning has been terrible since Cheese got here, been going on a long time. If he's going to be paid to coach, he needs to actually do his job.