State of MSU at the Midway Point of SEC play

[Todd4State]

If you look at the season as a whole we have improved but we are still not up to the MSU standard. Some people may say "well we should have fired Lemonis last year" but the reality is I am glad that we gave him every reasonable chance to fix the program. He can't say that- and more importantly future candidates for MSU baseball can't say that either. Support isn't just about fans although that is certainly part of it- it's also about the support from major boosters and the athletic department staff and being too quick to fire and not give chances to fix things can drive away potential candidates and make things worse. That's why my stance was to keep him for this year which I still think was the right decision for the overall long term health of the program but I always had the caveat that the expectation IF he came back was to get us to at least a SR. That has also never changed. And that's still possible. However, if you look at this team what they have done and their RPI and what's left the margin of error to even get into a regional is shrinking. And that is squarely on Lemonis. If we don't get into a regional I don't think he will be back next year. I'm thinking that if we do get into a regional it's going to be as a three seed somewhere probably with a difficult draw. The bottom line is this team isn't where it should be. And here's why I think that is.

1. Lemonis is not a very good leader. It feels like he wants or expects the players to lead themselves. That works with Jake Mangum and Tanner Allen. It doesn't work if you don't have people like that. And the coach has to lead and set the tone. Yes, there does need to be some leadership from the players but it really feels like there is none at that top and we're just hoping Johnny Long can lead us to a SR. These are 18-23 year old young men. There's probably a good reason why most generals and CEO's aren't that age.

2. Lemonis lacks attention to detail. We see this in the form of little things like our schedule being the last to be put out as fans. We also see it in the form of the baserunning circus every week. We see it in the form of the same people playing no matter how bad they're struggling. We see it in the form of bad defense last year. We see it in the form of lack of player development from year to year. The biggest indictment to me was still Johnny Long's interview after the Central Arkansas loss when he very carefully talked about how the team lacks focus for midweek games. I know he wasn't trying to call out Lemonis and was trying to send a message to his teammates but it had to make you wonder "what the hell was Lemonis doing then?" The infamous Augie Garrido videos that are the internet where he is chewing an absolutely new asshole into everyone on the team? At least one was after a midweek game that I think Texas WON. After we lost to UCA our guys probably signed some autographs and went to the Bin and picked up some college girls.

3. Lemonis is too hands off with his assistants which goes back to number one. Why was Foxhall allowed to do what he did? Why didn't he step in? And with Gautreau this year our approach is like a PG Travel Ball team. If Gautreau isn't going to tell Hines and Jordan to stop overswinging when they have two strikes- guess who needs to? Yes- Chris- YOU. We make zero offensive adjustments. And our SEC batting is actually better than OOC games because our approach is so horrendous and NO ONE does anything about it. Hines has probably cost himself at least 250K-500K because he refuses to adjust. Yes, you don't want to totally micromanage but sometimes the HEAD COACH has to step in and do something. We can't decide on a closer because Lemonis refuses to pitch a guy more than once on the weekend. It cost us Saturday. And what else does Tyson Hardin need to do to get a legit chance? He looked great on Friday. He only threw 12 pitches- he should have been available for Saturday for at least one inning. If anything he should have let Stevens pitch Friday in the 9th and Hardin the next night. And it's not like pitching these guys once a weekend is preventing Tommy John injuries with this staff.

4. Lemonis's in game feel is AWFUL. When I saw the starting lineup today I really thought someone was trolling. It's a big WTF? fest. We started a freshman who isn't a power hitter at DH with a batting average of .000. WHHHHHHYYYYY??? We put in LH pinch hitters to face LH pitchers. We put in LHP to face RH hitters. We let our submarine guy throw to LH hitters who usually tee off on submarine guys and then take him out when a RH hitter comes up- which are the hitters that submarine guys usually eat up. It's baseball 101 fails left and right and there is no common sense to any of it. Cohen did some crazy stuff but at least he could pretty much always back it up which is one reason why I liked him. Lemonis can't back his moves up though.

5. Lemonis's recruiting- actually pretty good! The problem is he is so bad in every other area no one gets developed and reaches their potential. If you want to blame the players you can- but you're off base. They have zero leadership and the leadership that is there expects them to figure everything out. Saban had five star recruits at every position and HE didn't treat his players like that. It's the same in baseball. But we're going to lose a lot of players next year- So what? No matter who the coach is we're going to hit the portal hard. We're not going to sit here and stand pat. Might as well hire someone that can identify and attract players.

MSU needs to get back to detail oriented baseball like we had under Polk and Cohen in all five phases of the game- pitching, defense, hitting for power, hitting for average and getting on base, and putting pressure on the other team with speed. And MSU fans need to decide if they want a team that plays with energy and passion or if they want a team that that plays like an Upward Rec League baseball team- but the fact of the matter is MSU baseball has always been better with players that played hard and played with energy and passion and pissed off the other team so that's the camp I'm in.

If I were in MSU's AD shoes the first two guys I call are Pollard and Haire after Vitello tells me no. Any one of those three can fix this mess and make everyone happy. We're close enough to making a regional that we're not a complete dumpster fire either plus we'll pay so we should be able to get someone good. Oh- and we don't have Cohen messing up the search either like he did the last two coaching searches.

[Quaoarsking]

And another key point is that thanks to the NIL and Portal, the days of long rebuilds are over. Ignore anyone who dooms about how we're going to suck for another 2-3 years because of this.

Hire a good coach and line up the NIL dollars, and we should be hosting in 2025.

[Bdawg]

I don’t see much to argue against. This was the year for Lemon to do a 180 and right the ship. Looks like we made a 90 instead.

[dawgday166]

Lessee ... Long is batting .250 with 1 extra base hit (the HR) ALL YEAR. He only has 9 RBIs all year. He does a pretty good job at framing pitches and blocking wild pitches but can't throw anyone out at 2nd.
And this is the MSU Poster Child for "fire & passion"?? He's barely an SEC caliber player.
His fire & passion cost us the GA game last week.

His backup, Powell is batting .294 and has 3 less RBI while starting half the games Long has started. He's actually hitting .429 in conference on only 7 AB tho.

If Long is the leader of this team then we're in trouble ... in more ways than one.
And not sure where this love affair with him is coming from but ... whatever.

[TNDawg35]

I would fire Gotro tonight. Our hitting is horrible. I horrible. We make decent pitchers look great and have for several years. Like you stated, our approach is bad and there are no adjustments.

[ArrowDawg]

If you look at the season as a whole we have improved but we are still not up to the MSU standard. Some people may say "well we should have fired Lemonis last year" but the reality is I am glad that we gave him every reasonable chance to fix the program. He can't say that- and more importantly future candidates for MSU baseball can't say that either. Support isn't just about fans although that is certainly part of it- it's also about the support from major boosters and the athletic department staff and being too quick to fire and not give chances to fix things can drive away potential candidates and make things worse. That's why my stance was to keep him for this year which I still think was the right decision for the overall long term health of the program but I always had the caveat that the expectation IF he came back was to get us to at least a SR. That has also never changed. And that's still possible. However, if you look at this team what they have done and their RPI and what's left the margin of error to even get into a regional is shrinking. And that is squarely on Lemonis. If we don't get into a regional I don't think he will be back next year. I'm thinking that if we do get into a regional it's going to be as a three seed somewhere probably with a difficult draw. The bottom line is this team isn't where it should be. And here's why I think that is.

1. Lemonis is not a very good leader. It feels like he wants or expects the players to lead themselves. That works with Jake Mangum and Tanner Allen. It doesn't work if you don't have people like that. And the coach has to lead and set the tone. Yes, there does need to be some leadership from the players but it really feels like there is none at that top and we're just hoping Johnny Long can lead us to a SR. These are 18-23 year old young men. There's probably a good reason why most generals and CEO's aren't that age.

2. Lemonis lacks attention to detail. We see this in the form of little things like our schedule being the last to be put out as fans. We also see it in the form of the baserunning circus every week. We see it in the form of the same people playing no matter how bad they're struggling. We see it in the form of bad defense last year. We see it in the form of lack of player development from year to year. The biggest indictment to me was still Johnny Long's interview after the Central Arkansas loss when he very carefully talked about how the team lacks focus for midweek games. I know he wasn't trying to call out Lemonis and was trying to send a message to his teammates but it had to make you wonder "what the hell was Lemonis doing then?" The infamous Augie Garrido videos that are the internet where he is chewing an absolutely new asshole into everyone on the team? At least one was after a midweek game that I think Texas WON. After we lost to UCA our guys probably signed some autographs and went to the Bin and picked up some college girls.

3. Lemonis is too hands off with his assistants which goes back to number one. Why was Foxhall allowed to do what he did? Why didn't he step in? And with Gautreau this year our approach is like a PG Travel Ball team. If Gautreau isn't going to tell Hines and Jordan to stop overswinging when they have two strikes- guess who needs to? Yes- Chris- YOU. We make zero offensive adjustments. And our SEC batting is actually better than OOC games because our approach is so horrendous and NO ONE does anything about it. Hines has probably cost himself at least 250K-500K because he refuses to adjust. Yes, you don't want to totally micromanage but sometimes the HEAD COACH has to step in and do something. We can't decide on a closer because Lemonis refuses to pitch a guy more than once on the weekend. It cost us Saturday. And what else does Tyson Hardin need to do to get a legit chance? He looked great on Friday. He only threw 12 pitches- he should have been available for Saturday for at least one inning. If anything he should have let Stevens pitch Friday in the 9th and Hardin the next night. And it's not like pitching these guys once a weekend is preventing Tommy John injuries with this staff.

4. Lemonis's in game feel is AWFUL. When I saw the starting lineup today I really thought someone was trolling. It's a big WTF? fest. We started a freshman who isn't a power hitter at DH with a batting average of .000. WHHHHHHYYYYY??? We put in LH pinch hitters to face LH pitchers. We put in LHP to face RH hitters. We let our submarine guy throw to LH hitters who usually tee off on submarine guys and then take him out when a RH hitter comes up- which are the hitters that submarine guys usually eat up. It's baseball 101 fails left and right and there is no common sense to any of it. Cohen did some crazy stuff but at least he could pretty much always back it up which is one reason why I liked him. Lemonis can't back his moves up though.

5. Lemonis's recruiting- actually pretty good! The problem is he is so bad in every other area no one gets developed and reaches their potential. If you want to blame the players you can- but you're off base. They have zero leadership and the leadership that is there expects them to figure everything out. Saban had five star recruits at every position and HE didn't treat his players like that. It's the same in baseball. But we're going to lose a lot of players next year- So what? No matter who the coach is we're going to hit the portal hard. We're not going to sit here and stand pat. Might as well hire someone that can identify and attract players.

MSU needs to get back to detail oriented baseball like we had under Polk and Cohen in all five phases of the game- pitching, defense, hitting for power, hitting for average and getting on base, and putting pressure on the other team with speed. And MSU fans need to decide if they want a team that plays with energy and passion or if they want a team that that plays like an Upward Rec League baseball team- but the fact of the matter is MSU baseball has always been better with players that played hard and played with energy and passion and pissed off the other team so that's the camp I'm in.

If I were in MSU's AD shoes the first two guys I call are Pollard and Haire after Vitello tells me no. Any one of those three can fix this mess and make everyone happy. We're close enough to making a regional that we're not a complete dumpster fire either plus we'll pay so we should be able to get someone good. Oh- and we don't have Cohen messing up the search either like he did the last two coaching searches.
Nailed it.

[Todd4State]

Lessee ... Long is batting .250 with 1 extra base hit (the HR) ALL YEAR. He only has 9 RBIs all year. He does a pretty good job at framing pitches and blocking wild pitches but can't throw anyone out at 2nd.
And this is the MSU Poster Child for "fire & passion"?? He's barely an SEC caliber player.
His fire & passion cost us the GA game last week.

His backup, Powell is batting .294 and has 3 less RBI while starting half the games Long has started. He's actually hitting .429 in conference on only 7 AB tho.

If Long is the leader of this team then we're in trouble ... in more ways than one.
And not sure where this love affair with him is coming from but ... whatever.

The TEAM and Lemonis is saying he is the leader. And that's honestly fine. Even in MLB it's not always the stars that are the actual leaders of the team. His "actions" have been overblown. The only reason he got ejected against Georgia is because the SEC 17ed it up royally over what amounted to a push. The bat flip that he did happens every weekend and the pearl clutching Ole Miss fans have no problem with it when their players do it- which has gone on for years with that program. And the pearl clutching MSU fans had no problem with MacNamee celebrating as much or more than Long did.

How many games did Jake Mangum cost us when he hit his hand against the dugout wall against Kentucky and was out for a couple of weeks a few years ago? Our fans never had any problems with his emotion. If teams do not like us celebrating then they don't need to serve up bombs to our "barely a SEC player" catcher. Especially in a game where their starting pitcher was emotional on the mound the whole time- which I had no problem with either.

Johnny Long may not start on my team- but he can be on my team any and every time.

[Todd4State]

And another key point is that thanks to the NIL and Portal, the days of long rebuilds are over. Ignore anyone who dooms about how we're going to suck for another 2-3 years because of this.

Hire a good coach and line up the NIL dollars, and we should be hosting in 2025.

The caveat to losing a lot of players? That opens up NIL money to get new ones.

[basedog]

I have to say Todd, this is maybe your best take of a HC. I don't want to say too much about this but I do know this is true " Lemonis is not a very good leader. It feels like he wants or expects the players to lead themselves."

I am always wanted to see a Coach have success at Msu, but times in sports have changed dramatically. Win or be gone, HC's make good money now days, fans pay high prices with tickets and travel to watch their teams play.

Lastly, player development is a huge problem but so is decision making.

[BrunswickDawg]

Lessee ... Long is batting .250 with 1 extra base hit (the HR) ALL YEAR. He only has 9 RBIs all year. He does a pretty good job at framing pitches and blocking wild pitches but can't throw anyone out at 2nd.
And this is the MSU Poster Child for "fire & passion"?? He's barely an SEC caliber player.
His fire & passion cost us the GA game last week.

His backup, Powell is batting .294 and has 3 less RBI while starting half the games Long has started. He's actually hitting .429 in conference on only 7 AB tho.

If Long is the leader of this team then we're in trouble ... in more ways than one.
And not sure where this love affair with him is coming from but ... whatever.


This is where you have understand that our outside view is not reflective of what goes on with the team. Powell would likely have won the spot - but he's been dealing with a concussion. So it's hard to lead when you don't play and in the case of a concussion get held out of team activities.

Johnny Long is not a problem. As T4S says - we loved Mac's bat flips and fire so why are we clowning on Long? Well, it's because they lost. But I totally get what Long is trying to do. He's trying to motivate and engage the team and appears to be the only one doing it. I'm not going to dog him for that.

Todd's post is pretty spot on.

[msstate7]

No, that type of bat flip doesn't happen. At least be honest.

[msstate7]

This is where you have understand that our outside view is not reflective of what goes on with the team. Powell would likely have won the spot - but he's been dealing with a concussion. So it's hard to lead when you don't play and in the case of a concussion get held out of team activities.

Johnny Long is not a problem. As T4S says - we loved Mac's bat flips and fire so why are we clowning on Long? Well, it's because they lost. But I totally get what Long is trying to do. He's trying to motivate and engage the team and appears to be the only one doing it. I'm not going to dog him for that.

Todd's post is pretty spot on.

Had long made the tag and went along his way, we had a legit shot at winning the Georgia game. Had long just did a normal bat flip instead of carrying it to 1b and slinging it at their dug out, Bianco stays in the dug out and doesn't get his team fired up. Long's DA antics have possibly cost us 2 wins.

[gtowndawg]

I've said before I don't really follow baseball very much but reading through that, if true, it seems obvious we just need a new coach. Pretty simple.

[StarkVegasSteve]

Your entire post can be summed up into what BankerDog said yesterday, Lemonis is a AA manager but he is not coaching AA

[BrunswickDawg]

Had long made the tag and went along his way, we had a legit shot at winning the Georgia game. Had long just did a normal bat flip instead of carrying it to 1b and slinging it at their dug out, Bianco stays in the dug out and doesn't get his team fired up. Long's DA antics have possibly cost us 2 wins.

He didn't sling it out their dugout. Where the hell did you see that? I don't see him slinging it toward the OM dugout in this video

https://x.com/cjzero/status/1779366784543395982


It goes back to us losing. We win that game and its a legendary episode in a heated rivalry.

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

Todd I will disagree on 2 points:

1) I think we should have fired Lemo last year. The logic of "We needed to give him every chance possible to right the ship" sounds fine, but it also applies to football. Should we have given JoMo a year 3? Should we have given Arnett a year 2? I think if you have. A bad coach you rip the bandaid off immediately. Waste no more seasons under them.

2) recruiting. Like you can say his recruiting is good but this is year 6. What Fr do we have that can contribute? Not a one. Who's the best pitcher on our team Lemo got from HS? Loo? We have no 3rd starter or reliably middle reliever or closer. Our best 2 pitchers (when healthy) are Kahl and Dohm, both transfers. Hitting, who do we have in the lineup that's above SEC average in talent or potential? Jordan (HS), Hujsak (Tranfer), Hines (HS), Mershon (HS). The other 5 spots are not impressive from a pure talent or performance perspective. And we're starting 3 mediocre transfers (Koehler, Long, Larry) because Lemo can't fill those spots with talent. Overall the lineup is about 9th in the SEC as far as numbers go.

I'm not against Portal plays or somehow saying they don't count as far as giving Lemo props for bringing in talent. I'm saying you're supposed to use the Portal to bring in studs and sure, fill the odd hole. You're not supposed to use the Portal to bring in sub average SEC players to fill half the lineup because you can't recruit even mediocre guys from HS to fill those spots

[StarkVegasSteve]

He didn't sling it out their dugout. Where the hell did you see that? I don't see him slinging it toward the OM dugout in this video

https://x.com/cjzero/status/1779366784543395982


It goes back to us losing. We win that game and its a legendary episode in a heated rivalry.

It is the Tennessee stuff with a worse team. When Tennessee was doing all of their celebrating and antics their fans ate it up because they were winning. The minute Notre Dame beat them, it was a distraction and the reason they lost.

I do not mind the celebrating and acting like a bad ass, but when it negatively impacts your team by either: taking you out of the game or just pissing off the other team then it ultimately hurts. A great example of this, 2017 against Kentucky, Mangum gets an inside the park HR on Sunday of SBW and he get way to fired up, punches the wall, and breaks his hand. He struggled batting the rest of the year.

[PMDawg]

Had long made the tag and went along his way, we had a legit shot at winning the Georgia game. Had long just did a normal bat flip instead of carrying it to 1b and slinging it at their dug out, Bianco stays in the dug out and doesn't get his team fired up. Long's DA antics have possibly cost us 2 wins.

I agree with you, except for this - we never should have seen Long's AB in the 12th. We should have brought in Davis instead of Shuelke. We would've won the game 7-3. All these coaching blunders have cost us pretty much every SEC series we have lost.

[Santiago]

If you look at the season as a whole we have improved but we are still not up to the MSU standard. Some people may say "well we should have fired Lemonis last year" but the reality is I am glad that we gave him every reasonable chance to fix the program. He can't say that- and more importantly future candidates for MSU baseball can't say that either. Support isn't just about fans although that is certainly part of it- it's also about the support from major boosters and the athletic department staff and being too quick to fire and not give chances to fix things can drive away potential candidates and make things worse. That's why my stance was to keep him for this year which I still think was the right decision for the overall long term health of the program but I always had the caveat that the expectation IF he came back was to get us to at least a SR. That has also never changed. And that's still possible. However, if you look at this team what they have done and their RPI and what's left the margin of error to even get into a regional is shrinking. And that is squarely on Lemonis. If we don't get into a regional I don't think he will be back next year. I'm thinking that if we do get into a regional it's going to be as a three seed somewhere probably with a difficult draw. The bottom line is this team isn't where it should be. And here's why I think that is.

1. Lemonis is not a very good leader. It feels like he wants or expects the players to lead themselves. That works with Jake Mangum and Tanner Allen. It doesn't work if you don't have people like that. And the coach has to lead and set the tone. Yes, there does need to be some leadership from the players but it really feels like there is none at that top and we're just hoping Johnny Long can lead us to a SR. These are 18-23 year old young men. There's probably a good reason why most generals and CEO's aren't that age.

2. Lemonis lacks attention to detail. We see this in the form of little things like our schedule being the last to be put out as fans. We also see it in the form of the baserunning circus every week. We see it in the form of the same people playing no matter how bad they're struggling. We see it in the form of bad defense last year. We see it in the form of lack of player development from year to year. The biggest indictment to me was still Johnny Long's interview after the Central Arkansas loss when he very carefully talked about how the team lacks focus for midweek games. I know he wasn't trying to call out Lemonis and was trying to send a message to his teammates but it had to make you wonder "what the hell was Lemonis doing then?" The infamous Augie Garrido videos that are the internet where he is chewing an absolutely new asshole into everyone on the team? At least one was after a midweek game that I think Texas WON. After we lost to UCA our guys probably signed some autographs and went to the Bin and picked up some college girls.

3. Lemonis is too hands off with his assistants which goes back to number one. Why was Foxhall allowed to do what he did? Why didn't he step in? And with Gautreau this year our approach is like a PG Travel Ball team. If Gautreau isn't going to tell Hines and Jordan to stop overswinging when they have two strikes- guess who needs to? Yes- Chris- YOU. We make zero offensive adjustments. And our SEC batting is actually better than OOC games because our approach is so horrendous and NO ONE does anything about it. Hines has probably cost himself at least 250K-500K because he refuses to adjust. Yes, you don't want to totally micromanage but sometimes the HEAD COACH has to step in and do something. We can't decide on a closer because Lemonis refuses to pitch a guy more than once on the weekend. It cost us Saturday. And what else does Tyson Hardin need to do to get a legit chance? He looked great on Friday. He only threw 12 pitches- he should have been available for Saturday for at least one inning. If anything he should have let Stevens pitch Friday in the 9th and Hardin the next night. And it's not like pitching these guys once a weekend is preventing Tommy John injuries with this staff.

4. Lemonis's in game feel is AWFUL. When I saw the starting lineup today I really thought someone was trolling. It's a big WTF? fest. We started a freshman who isn't a power hitter at DH with a batting average of .000. WHHHHHHYYYYY??? We put in LH pinch hitters to face LH pitchers. We put in LHP to face RH hitters. We let our submarine guy throw to LH hitters who usually tee off on submarine guys and then take him out when a RH hitter comes up- which are the hitters that submarine guys usually eat up. It's baseball 101 fails left and right and there is no common sense to any of it. Cohen did some crazy stuff but at least he could pretty much always back it up which is one reason why I liked him. Lemonis can't back his moves up though.

5. Lemonis's recruiting- actually pretty good! The problem is he is so bad in every other area no one gets developed and reaches their potential. If you want to blame the players you can- but you're off base. They have zero leadership and the leadership that is there expects them to figure everything out. Saban had five star recruits at every position and HE didn't treat his players like that. It's the same in baseball. But we're going to lose a lot of players next year- So what? No matter who the coach is we're going to hit the portal hard. We're not going to sit here and stand pat. Might as well hire someone that can identify and attract players.

MSU needs to get back to detail oriented baseball like we had under Polk and Cohen in all five phases of the game- pitching, defense, hitting for power, hitting for average and getting on base, and putting pressure on the other team with speed. And MSU fans need to decide if they want a team that plays with energy and passion or if they want a team that that plays like an Upward Rec League baseball team- but the fact of the matter is MSU baseball has always been better with players that played hard and played with energy and passion and pissed off the other team so that's the camp I'm in.

If I were in MSU's AD shoes the first two guys I call are Pollard and Haire after Vitello tells me no. Any one of those three can fix this mess and make everyone happy. We're close enough to making a regional that we're not a complete dumpster fire either plus we'll pay so we should be able to get someone good. Oh- and we don't have Cohen messing up the search either like he did the last two coaching searches.

Isn't this what many of us were saying a few weeks ago, but we would be told we were unrealistic fans, and that "we are ranked and just looking for reasons"?
It was fools gold the past few weeks and some of us were already saying all this.

[FoggyBottom]

Had long made the tag and went along his way, we had a legit shot at winning the Georgia game. Had long just did a normal bat flip instead of carrying it to 1b and slinging it at their dug out, Bianco stays in the dug out and doesn't get his team fired up. Long's DA antics have possibly cost us 2 wins.

Exactly. From the moment Bianco got tossed, Ole Miss? entire team demeanor changed and they dominated play. They got a huge shot of confidence and that incident may well serve to save their season.

[DownwardDawg]

I would fire Gotro tonight. Our hitting is horrible. I horrible. We make decent pitchers look great and have for several years. Like you stated, our approach is bad and there are no adjustments.

Gotro has been terrible.

[MadDawg]

The TEAM and Lemonis is saying he is the leader. And that's honestly fine. Even in MLB it's not always the stars that are the actual leaders of the team. His "actions" have been overblown. The only reason he got ejected against Georgia is because the SEC 17ed it up royally over what amounted to a push. The bat flip that he did happens every weekend and the pearl clutching Ole Miss fans have no problem with it when their players do it- which has gone on for years with that program. And the pearl clutching MSU fans had no problem with MacNamee celebrating as much or more than Long did.

How many games did Jake Mangum cost us when he hit his hand against the dugout wall against Kentucky and was out for a couple of weeks a few years ago? Our fans never had any problems with his emotion. If teams do not like us celebrating then they don't need to serve up bombs to our "barely a SEC player" catcher. Especially in a game where their starting pitcher was emotional on the mound the whole time- which I had no problem with either.

Johnny Long may not start on my team- but he can be on my team any and every time.

He'd be my bullpen catcher.

[Saltydog]

I don't necessarily agree about the recruiting. I don't care what PG or any other service says, I know what I see. We don't have young position players that can step in and be serviceable backups, much less start and it's even more obvious with the pitchers. Stevens is the only youngster I see with a big time arm.

[Todd4State]

Todd I will disagree on 2 points:

1) I think we should have fired Lemo last year. The logic of "We needed to give him every chance possible to right the ship" sounds fine, but it also applies to football. Should we have given JoMo a year 3? Should we have given Arnett a year 2? I think if you have. A bad coach you rip the bandaid off immediately. Waste no more seasons under them.

2) recruiting. Like you can say his recruiting is good but this is year 6. What Fr do we have that can contribute? Not a one. Who's the best pitcher on our team Lemo got from HS? Loo? We have no 3rd starter or reliably middle reliever or closer. Our best 2 pitchers (when healthy) are Kahl and Dohm, both transfers. Hitting, who do we have in the lineup that's above SEC average in talent or potential? Jordan (HS), Hujsak (Tranfer), Hines (HS), Mershon (HS). The other 5 spots are not impressive from a pure talent or performance perspective. And we're starting 3 mediocre transfers (Koehler, Long, Larry) because Lemo can't fill those spots with talent. Overall the lineup is about 9th in the SEC as far as numbers go.

I'm not against Portal plays or somehow saying they don't count as far as giving Lemo props for bringing in talent. I'm saying you're supposed to use the Portal to bring in studs and sure, fill the odd hole. You're not supposed to use the Portal to bring in sub average SEC players to fill half the lineup because you can't recruit even mediocre guys from HS to fill those spots

Once again you are comparing football coaches to baseball coaches. It is completely different because of their recruiting cycles and also because of how potential replacements view the position. Moorhead had players fighting each other. That's not happening with Lemonis. Arnett had outside influences running the program and it was actually worse than Moorhead. Again- we don't have Lemonis listening to high school coaches for advice and Ron Polk meddling with things. That was what was going on with Arnett but with football coaches. We are going to probably be at worst a regional bubble team which is a far cry from a dumpster fire like football.

We have an upperclassman laden team. That's the primary reason why the freshman haven't played a lot. You may not see a ton of freshman playing a lot because of the portal. Stevens will be very good. Dotson will be very good. Makhai Grant had Tommy John and if he recovers he will be very good. Highfill has been injured. McKenzie was never going to beat out Hines. Cupp has been hurt but should play more soon. Mershon and Chance are essentially sophomores. When we add in more freshmen next year like Henry Allen and Dante Nori and hopefully Conrad Cason we will have enough talent to win like we expect. The talent we have now isn't bad- but some of it isn't being used properly. Especially Stevens. When that happens players will not be maximized and to the untrained appear to be "not talented".

[Todd4State]

Had long made the tag and went along his way, we had a legit shot at winning the Georgia game. Had long just did a normal bat flip instead of carrying it to 1b and slinging it at their dug out, Bianco stays in the dug out and doesn't get his team fired up. Long's DA antics have possibly cost us 2 wins.

Bianco has acted like a bitch for years. I don't know that Long's "antics" would have changed how he acted honestly.

[Pancho]

Bianco acts like he grew up sheltered in the grove

[Pancho]

Once again you are comparing football coaches to baseball coaches. It is completely different because of their recruiting cycles and also because of how potential replacements view the position. Moorhead had players fighting each other. That's not happening with Lemonis. Arnett had outside influences running the program and it was actually worse than Moorhead. Again- we don't have Lemonis listening to high school coaches for advice and Ron Polk meddling with things. That was what was going on with Arnett but with football coaches. We are going to probably be at worst a regional bubble team which is a far cry from a dumpster fire like football.

We have an upperclassman laden team. That's the primary reason why the freshman haven't played a lot. You may not see a ton of freshman playing a lot because of the portal. Stevens will be very good. Dotson will be very good. Makhai Grant had Tommy John and if he recovers he will be very good. Highfill has been injured. McKenzie was never going to beat out Hines. Cupp has been hurt but should play more soon. Mershon and Chance are essentially sophomores. When we add in more freshmen next year like Henry Allen and Dante Nori and hopefully Conrad Cason we will have enough talent to win like we expect. The talent we have now isn't bad- but some of it isn't being used properly. Especially Stevens. When that happens players will not be maximized and to the untrained appear to be "not talented".

I am only asking but which ones are supposed to replace hines and DJ in the batting order and produce?

[Commercecomet24]

Bianco acts like he grew up sheltered in the grove

lol that's awesome!

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

Once again you are comparing football coaches to baseball coaches. It is completely different because of their recruiting cycles and also because of how potential replacements view the position. Moorhead had players fighting each other. That's not happening with Lemonis. Arnett had outside influences running the program and it was actually worse than Moorhead. Again- we don't have Lemonis listening to high school coaches for advice and Ron Polk meddling with things. That was what was going on with Arnett but with football coaches. We are going to probably be at worst a regional bubble team which is a far cry from a dumpster fire like football. And "how it looks to other coaches"? Come on. No coach will shy away from our job because we fired a coach that missed Hoover in year 4 and 5. If a HC candidate fears he will be that bad that late in his tenure, we don't want him.

We have an upperclassman laden team. That's the primary reason why the freshman haven't played a lot. You may not see a ton of freshman playing a lot because of the portal. Stevens will be very good. Dotson will be very good. Makhai Grant had Tommy John and if he recovers he will be very good. Highfill has been injured. McKenzie was never going to beat out Hines. Cupp has been hurt but should play more soon. Mershon and Chance are essentially sophomores. When we add in more freshmen next year like Henry Allen and Dante Nori and hopefully Conrad Cason we will have enough talent to win like we expect. The talent we have now isn't bad- but some of it isn't being used properly. Especially Stevens. When that happens players will not be maximized and to the untrained appear to be "not talented".

1) how can you cite "recruiting cycles" as being a reason to keep Lemo but not a football coach? Lemo sucked in year 4 and 5 of the Portal era. Last year was 100% players he signed, and almost entirely guys he chose to pursue.

2) it's an "upper classman laden team": I'm not asking anyone to replace Hines at 1B. I'm asking a Fr to be able to hit (DH), or replace bad hitters at 3B and 2B. Chance is also not a stud in the OF. That's 4 spots where a Fr can get in the lineup but non are capable of it. If Mershon was a year younger he'd have replaced Larry by now. If Jordan were a year younger he'd replace Chance. If Highfill was a year younger and healthy he'd be the DH. Pitching, you're placing a lot of weight that Grant is a stud. Easy to say about injured players. If Grant was healthy but Stevens was hurt you could easily talk about the "stud lefty and hitter who if he was healthy would fill the LHP and DH role"

The fact is, we have no Fr that can hit at this point in time, and no Fr contributors on the mound, despite ample opportunity and need.

[Pancho]

We can all assume that issue alone is cause for enuf concern to cut ties

[parabrave]

Todd one thing you talked about was lack of Player Development. One thing aparty to this is the defensive regression of the players. Players are supposed to be improving through the season not getting worse. 2 things that this is indicative of is bad coaching and/or the just don't give a shi^ anymore. Probably both.

[WSOPdawg]

I am only asking but which ones are supposed to replace hines and DJ in the batting order and produce?

^^^ This all day. Those players are not currently on the team.

For that, we'll need to hit the portal hard for the next Brayden Montgomery, Billy Amick, Tommy White, Colton Ledbetter, Sonny Dicharia, etc (and preferrably two of these types). Surrounding a couple of these type transfers with Mershon, Chance, Cupp may allow for the M over S to field a competitive team next year offensively.

[ScooterDog]

I?m glad others have seen Gotros inability to coach batters. I?ve said that all year long.

[BigDawg81]

I would fire Gotro tonight. Our hitting is horrible. I horrible. We make decent pitchers look great and have for several years. Like you stated, our approach is bad and there are no adjustments. It?s 2 strikes before State even starts competing at the plate. Hell, half of the time the batter looks at strike 3. IMO, if the pitcher is a strike thrower, why are the batters not aggressive? They have a pitcher of a 6 ERA and they look like Greg Maddux against our lineup.

[Todd4State]

Todd I will disagree on 2 points:

1) I think we should have fired Lemo last year. The logic of "We needed to give him every chance possible to right the ship" sounds fine, but it also applies to football. Should we have given JoMo a year 3? Should we have given Arnett a year 2? I think if you have. A bad coach you rip the bandaid off immediately. Waste no more seasons under them.

2) recruiting. Like you can say his recruiting is good but this is year 6. What Fr do we have that can contribute? Not a one. Who's the best pitcher on our team Lemo got from HS? Loo? We have no 3rd starter or reliably middle reliever or closer. Our best 2 pitchers (when healthy) are Kahl and Dohm, both transfers. Hitting, who do we have in the lineup that's above SEC average in talent or potential? Jordan (HS), Hujsak (Tranfer), Hines (HS), Mershon (HS). The other 5 spots are not impressive from a pure talent or performance perspective. And we're starting 3 mediocre transfers (Koehler, Long, Larry) because Lemo can't fill those spots with talent. Overall the lineup is about 9th in the SEC as far as numbers go.

I'm not against Portal plays or somehow saying they don't count as far as giving Lemo props for bringing in talent. I'm saying you're supposed to use the Portal to bring in studs and sure, fill the odd hole. You're not supposed to use the Portal to bring in sub average SEC players to fill half the lineup because you can't recruit even mediocre guys from HS to fill those spots

1) Of course you disagree because you have a football mentality and that doesn't apply to baseball. Your way would have led to our baseball version of Rick Ray because no coach would have come here after we fired a coach two years removed from a NC with a pitching staff that had an ERA over 7. Then what? You "rip the band off again" because the next guy can't coach? Guess what happens to scabs if you rip them off before they are given a chance to heal- they take longer to heal. Joe Moorhead was given a chance to right the ship after he won the piss and miss and he screwed it up in the bowl game. Bad example by you. Arnett was our football version of Rick Ray. Lemonis had been to the equivalent of the BCS playoffs twice and won a NC. Arnett- not even close. Let me ask you this- should we have fired Dan Mullen after 2016 when Peter Sirmon screwed up the defense? Same thing here. Except Dan took the opportunity to turn the team around and did it and Lemonis has not. And because of that Dan was offered an extension to stay and Lemonis will be fired because of how they responded when given the opportunity. And our same top targets are in the exact same places they were last season as far as coaching candidates go. That should tell you a little about how often baseball coaches move in and of itself. Haire turned down Georgia to stay at Campbell.

2) So you're saying he can't recruit because none of the freshmen have taken over the team? FYI- Will Clark had to wait until Chris Maloney was injured to start. Brent Rooker redshirted. Ethan Small had an ERA through the roof and had Tommy John just like Grant. Hunter Renfroe looked completely lost as a freshman. Kendall Graveman got beat by Jackson State as a freshman. I could go on. Let me put this in terms that you can understand- if our freshmen in football don't contribute outside of a couple of guys does that make Lebby a bad recruiter? No. Loo is a good pitcher. Will Bednar turned out pretty good. The players in the portal are a crap shoot. LSU and you thought Eric Holman was going to be Paul Skenes 2.0 and lead them to another NC. That's not going to happen is it? I'm not sure what you want Lemonis to do. If he misses on a player do you want him to try to fill it with someone out of the portal or not? It sounds like you can't make up your mind here. Foxhall hurt our pitching recruiting badly. Stevens, Dotson, and Grant have really good potential. Highfill got hurt- not Lemonis's fault. McKenzie is not going to supplant Hines who is one of the school's top 10 home run hitters. Cupp has been hurt otherwise he would have been playing in the field over Larry with Mershon moving to second. Our best third base and CF prospects are in high school right now. I'm sure we'll go to the portal to try to fill third base anyway. Stevens should be starting at DH- that's on Lemonis. It's not because he is a bad player. Chance is a good solid college player. You need a couple on your team. He will get better over the next couple of years. Kohler got hurt in game one and hasn't hit the same since. Long hit a game tying home run in the 12th and is the team leader. Not a bad pick up. Larry is streaky. You also said that Khal Stephen wasn't any good and he's our ace. Probably will end up being a better pick up that Holman. The issue is Lemonis isn't developing these players to their full potential because he doesn't pay attention to the details. That doesn't mean the players are bad. It means they're poorly coached and underdeveloped. Don't believe me? Go look at Cade Smith and Eric Cerentola's stats in the minor leagues.

One last thing about the portal and freshmen- you're going to see less and less freshmen contribute right away because coaches knows that experience wins in the SEC. You have a classic case of "I only watch Mississippi State baseball" and no one else.

[CaptainObvious]

I'll say this and stand by it. If Ole Miss reverts back to their crappy ways the rest of the season, Bianco, who is a hell of a lot better coach than Lemonis, will be gone 2 years from winning a Natty! They will not wait for him to "fix it". If LSU continues to tumble deeper into the abyss and fail to make the tourney, Jay will be a hot seat coach next year! Red Hot!

[The Federalist Engineer]

Lessee ... Long is batting .250 with 1 extra base hit (the HR) ALL YEAR. He only has 9 RBIs all year. He does a pretty good job at framing pitches and blocking wild pitches but can't throw anyone out at 2nd.
And this is the MSU Poster Child for "fire & passion"?? He's barely an SEC caliber player.
His fire & passion cost us the GA game last week.

His backup, Powell is batting .294 and has 3 less RBI while starting half the games Long has started. He's actually hitting .429 in conference on only 7 AB tho.

If Long is the leader of this team then we're in trouble ... in more ways than one.
And not sure where this love affair with him is coming from but ... whatever.

Long and Powell are emergency backups for Ross Highfill. If RH were healthy, we would only have seen Long versus SWAC teams. Long was also a backup or co-starter at Pitt, so that's the reason he's playing. No other option in the roster.

[Pancho]

the last catcher we had was Tanner.

[The Federalist Engineer]

1) how can you cite "recruiting cycles" as being a reason to keep Lemo but not a football coach? Lemo sucked in year 4 and 5 of the Portal era. Last year was 100% players he signed, and almost entirely guys he chose to pursue.

2) it's an "upper classman laden team": I'm not asking anyone to replace Hines at 1B. I'm asking a Fr to be able to hit (DH), or replace bad hitters at 3B and 2B. Chance is also not a stud in the OF. That's 4 spots where a Fr can get in the lineup but non are capable of it. If Mershon was a year younger he'd have replaced Larry by now. If Jordan were a year younger he'd replace Chance. If Highfill was a year younger and healthy he'd be the DH. Pitching, you're placing a lot of weight that Grant is a stud. Easy to say about injured players. If Grant was healthy but Stevens was hurt you could easily talk about the "stud lefty and hitter who if he was healthy would fill the LHP and DH role"

The fact is, we have no Fr that can hit at this point in time, and no Fr contributors on the mound, despite ample opportunity and need.

The freshman are not just bad, they look like frat boys in store-bought uniforms pretending to be players. Is the plan that the Freshman pay for personal Hitting Coaches and learn from the summer coaches? Only Stevens looks competitive. I bet Stevens at Stanford would be a Freshman All American.

Another thing, Slate Alford and Lane Forsythe have Chipper Jones / Gary Sheffield numbers compared to Kohler. This is a sign that Jake G is not close to maximizing the players.

[Pancho]

My money is on the "can't get blood from a turnip" when it deal with kohler and an SEC bat..........

[maroonmania]

I don’t see much to argue against. This was the year for Lemon to do a 180 and right the ship. Looks like we made a 90 instead.

My question to all on this board is do you see us EVER getting back to Omaha with Lemonis running the program? I certainly don't and that is the reason I'm ready to move on even if we squeak into a regional somewhere. With Lemonis, and given the hitters we lose after this year ends, I really don't see how we will be as good next season as we are this season. Does anyone see our program improving next year over this year? It's pretty obvious Lemonis can manage a team but he can't build a team.

[StarkVegasSteve]

My question to all on this board is do you see us EVER getting back to Omaha with Lemonis running the program? I certainly don't and that is the reason I'm ready to move on even if we squeak into a regional somewhere. With Lemonis, and given the hitters we lose after this year ends, I really don't see how we will be as good next season as we are this season. Does anyone see our program improving next year over this year? It's pretty obvious Lemonis can manage a team but he can't build a team.

I do not unless he lucks into an Ethan Small and a Landon Sims and they are on the same team. Offensively he recruits well enough to get there. He just cannot recruit on the mound and develop a bullpen with backend pieces. Now we did get Stephen this year that has turned it on as of late but we have nothing behind him. It is why I was vehemently against making Dohm a starter. We should have kept him at the back end and let Schuelke be the SU guy.

[Randolph Dupree]

My question to all on this board is do you see us EVER getting back to Omaha with Lemonis running the program? I certainly don't and that is the reason I'm ready to move on even if we squeak into a regional somewhere. With Lemonis, and given the hitters we lose after this year ends, I really don't see how we will be as good next season as we are this season. Does anyone see our program improving next year over this year? It's pretty obvious Lemonis can manage a team but he can't build a team.

This is my sentiment also. Great breakdown by Todd on our issues. After the natty people talked about Lemonis "pressing all the right buttons" but in reality it looks like he's just throwing random shit against the wall and seeing what sticks. Looks like he got lucky once but the law of averages is catching up. In the SEC all the players are good so you have to have players and coaching. I think we lack coaching AND evaluation. Players can manipulate the system and inflate their PG rankings, you recruit the rankings and you get ole miss (that's what they do)...and that's what we've gotten.

Also, I've been a big supporter of GoTro over the years but it's time to move on. Not sure if it's complacency or what; I liken it to if I wrote an essay and proofed it three times, I could still hand it to someone else to proof read and they'd find stupid errors. Sometimes you're just too close to it to see the flaws.

[Goldendawg]

Many of you know baseball at all levels much better than me (Starting 7th Grade Second Baseman in '68, but many games attended since!). My question, How in this world are we now 2 1/2 years past a NC and have so many holes in the lineup, questionable Bullpen with no closer, no 3rd baseman, questionable 2nd baseman, backup catcher that has thrown no one out, little hitting in order 6-9, no DH, no bench, playing guys left on left batting or hitting 0.00 or others less than the Mendosa line? Heck you have to add the batting averages of a couple of the past weekend's disaster to even reach the Mendoza line. Looks to me the wheels are still off, except maybe a couple back on since 14th followed by 13th in the league. Also appears to me the league is top heavy, ala MBB in the NCAA tourney.

[Todd4State]

This is my sentiment also. Great breakdown by Todd on our issues. After the natty people talked about Lemonis "pressing all the right buttons" but in reality it looks like he's just throwing random shit against the wall and seeing what sticks. Looks like he got lucky once but the law of averages is catching up. In the SEC all the players are good so you have to have players and coaching. I think we lack coaching AND evaluation. Players can manipulate the system and inflate their PG rankings, you recruit the rankings and you get ole miss (that's what they do)...and that's what we've gotten.

Also, I've been a big supporter of GoTro over the years but it's time to move on. Not sure if it's complacency or what; I liken it to if I wrote an essay and proofed it three times, I could still hand it to someone else to proof read and they'd find stupid errors. Sometimes you're just too close to it to see the flaws.

The reality is there is no baseball coach that could screw up Landon Sims. He was absolutely unicorn dominant. How many times in 2021 did he come in for Parker Stinnett who walked the bases loaded with no outs and was able to minimize damage to a run or less because people could barely make contact?

The question about recruiting comes down to this- is PG, MLB scouts, MLB.com, and etc. all wrong about our players or is it poor coaching and development? Given the success of some of our players after they left here I'm going with the development being the issue. SEC/MLB caliber players just figuring it out in the minors isn't as normal as some MSU fans try to make it seem. It's hard to say that guys like Dakota Jordan, Hunter Hines, Mershon, and etc. haven't panned out. I think I can make a strong argument that they also aren't reaching their ceiling either.


Many of you know baseball at all levels much better than me (Starting 7th Grade Second Baseman in '68, but many games attended since!). My question, How in this world are we now 2 1/2 years past a NC and have so many holes in the lineup, questionable Bullpen with no closer, no 3rd baseman, questionable 2nd baseman, backup catcher that has thrown no one out, little hitting in order 6-9, no DH, no bench, playing guys left on left batting or hitting 0.00 or others less than the Mendosa line? Heck you have to add the batting averages of a couple of the past weekend's disaster to even reach the Mendoza line. Looks to me the wheels are still off, except maybe a couple back on since 14th followed by 13th in the league. Also appears to me the league is top heavy, ala MBB in the NCAA tourney.

I think the holes comes down to Cannizarro getting lazy with recruiting because of his distractions followed up by MSU hiring a then unknown head coach in Lemonis. Foxhall was also lazy at recruiting and his reputation was starting to become really bad. Once things settled and we had success we started to recruit better. And so after the CWS NC Lemonis decided to kind of cut corners a bit by bringing in a ton of JUCO and portal transfers to try to avoid having bad seasons and it didn't work out because his pitching coach was horrendous.

If you break down our most used relief pitchers they're pretty much all from the portal or JUCO. Hardin, Tyler Davis, Auger, Schuelke, with Siary being the exception. As a whole on the season they haven't been bad but at the same time most of them have been inconsistent and no one has really stepped up at all. Although again- I'm not sure why Hardin hasn't really got a chance. I think they may have given up on Gavin Black too soon too.

Closers are hard to find because it's a fairly high stress position. If you blow games the YOU are the reason why the team lost and is sucking. That's a lot of pressure to put on a player in a team sport. And it's even more difficult because "all you had to go was get three outs". They're harder to identify and find but they're also a major position because it can be the difference between Omaha or sitting at home. It's hard too because pitchers that go to college all want to be starters to increase their draft stock and that is a piece of college baseball. So a guy like Landon Sims or Nate Dohm if you tell them that they have to stay in the bullpen odds are they'll likely hit the portal and go somewhere that will let them start. Essentially closers are the kickers of baseball.

So as far as recruiting closers specifically you're probably best off:

1) Getting one out of the portal and getting someone like Aaron Nixon.
2) Using an elite prospect that is an underclassman that has electric stuff like Landon Sims assuming that player isn't needed to fill a starting role. The Cardinals kind of did this with Adam Wainwright early in his career. I think this is where Makhai Grant being injured really has hurt us this year.
3) Using a senior that has experience that has worked his way up through the bullpen through the year from middle relief to set-up to closer. Like Cole Gordon. This is where Stone Simmons being injured has hurt as well.

JUCO guys are JUCO for a reason. Meaning they likely lack something that makes them elite at the SEC level to have a pitch that you would like to have with a closer. That doesn't mean they can't be good players. It just means they're probably better suited for other relief roles.

I could make a strong argument that the biggest problem the team has is no closer. 9 of our 14 losses have been by one run. I'm not sure how many blown saves are in that total but it's several I'm sure. Imagine being a MLB team and over half of your losses are by one run. That's brutal. And it probably will cost Lemonis his job.

[Coach34]

Many of you know baseball at all levels much better than me (Starting 7th Grade Second Baseman in '68, but many games attended since!). My question, How in this world are we now 2 1/2 years past a NC and have so many holes in the lineup, questionable Bullpen with no closer, no 3rd baseman, questionable 2nd baseman, backup catcher that has thrown no one out, little hitting in order 6-9, no DH, no bench, playing guys left on left batting or hitting 0.00 or others less than the Mendosa line? Heck you have to add the batting averages of a couple of the past weekend's disaster to even reach the Mendoza line. Looks to me the wheels are still off, except maybe a couple back on since 14th followed by 13th in the league. Also appears to me the league is top heavy, ala MBB in the NCAA tourney.

This is an example of taking a fine tooth comb to us without even looking at the other SEC teams and things they have going...Our stats compared to the rest of the SEC are solid

Hitting? All Games- 7th in Avg, 9th in OBP, 9th runs scored, 7th in BB's and 4th in fewest K's...SEC Only- 8th in Avg, 6th in OBP, 5th in Runs scored, 7th in BB's and 5th in fewest K's- so basically top half in almost everything in SEC-only games....these stats conflict alot with your post

Pitching? 6th in ERA...7th in BA allowed...5th in Runs allowed...6th in BB's allowed...8th in K's.....SEC-Only? 5th in ERA...4th in BA allowed...4th in runs allowed..9th in BB's...9th in K's

Fielding? Tied for 1st in the SEC and one of the best in the country

People acting like we suck simply arent paying attention or just stirring the pot because they want a change no matter what happens

[Commercecomet24]

This is an example of taking a fine tooth comb to us without even looking at the other SEC teams and things they have going...Our stats compared to the rest of the SEC are solid

Hitting? All Games- 7th in Avg, 9th in OBP, 9th runs scored, 7th in BB's and 4th in fewest K's...SEC Only- 8th in Avg, 6th in OBP, 5th in Runs scored, 7th in BB's and 5th in fewest K's- so basically top half in almost everything in SEC-only games....these stats conflict alot with your post

Pitching? 6th in ERA...7th in BA allowed...5th in Runs allowed...6th in BB's allowed...8th in K's.....SEC-Only? 5th in ERA...4th in BA allowed...4th in runs allowed..9th in BB's...9th in K's

Fielding? Tied for 1st in the SEC and one of the best in the country

People acting like we suck simply arent paying attention or just stirring the pot because they want a change no matter what happens

I don't think a lot of folks watch anyone but us play. When all you focus on is one thing you'll find warts. That's being said we have the potential to be better than we've shown. The lack of a closer has kept us from being a top 15 team. We definitely don't suck and we are a good team but we could be much better right now. IF we can find a way to close games we'll be tough to deal with, but half season over we haven't found it yet. There is hope.

[Coach34]

I don't think a lot of folks watch anyone but us play. When all you focus on is one thing you'll find warts. That's being said we have the potential to be better than we've shown. The lack of a closer has kept us from being a top 15 team. We definitely don't suck and we are a good team but we could be much better right now. IF we can find a way to close games we'll be tough to deal with, but half season over we haven't found it yet. There is hope.

Exactly- if we had a Closer we would be 10-5 in the SEC at worst right now and in line to host a Regional. We arent far off. But yes- you can certainly blame Lemon/Parker for us not having a Closer-type that has cost us games

[StarkVegasSteve]

I don't think a lot of folks watch anyone but us play. When all you focus on is one thing you'll find warts. That's being said we have the potential to be better than we've shown. The lack of a closer has kept us from being a top 15 team. We definitely don't suck and we are a good team but we could be much better right now. IF we can find a way to close games we'll be tough to deal with, but half season over we haven't found it yet. There is hope.

I think the closer is the issue for a BUNCH of people. As strange as it is just having a competent closer probably has us in the tournament in 22 and definitely in 23 and would probably have us hosting this year. That's now 3 years Lemonis and his PC have failed to identify a closer either already on the roster, through recruiting, or through the portal. At a certain point it stops being an anomaly and becomes a trend.

[Goldendawg]

This is an example of taking a fine tooth comb to us without even looking at the other SEC teams and things they have going...Our stats compared to the rest of the SEC are solid

Hitting? All Games- 7th in Avg, 9th in OBP, 9th runs scored, 7th in BB's and 4th in fewest K's...SEC Only- 8th in Avg, 6th in OBP, 5th in Runs scored, 7th in BB's and 5th in fewest K's- so basically top half in almost everything in SEC-only games....these stats conflict alot with your post

Pitching? 6th in ERA...7th in BA allowed...5th in Runs allowed...6th in BB's allowed...8th in K's.....SEC-Only? 5th in ERA...4th in BA allowed...4th in runs allowed..9th in BB's...9th in K's

Fielding? Tied for 1st in the SEC and one of the best in the country

People acting like we suck simply arent paying attention or just stirring the pot because they want a change no matter what happens

So except for fielding about mid-pack or so? You're right. I don't watch other teams unless I am at the Dude watching us play them. I don't care how they are doing against other opposition in football, MBB, or baseball. I just care about how we are doing and if we are playing to our potential and hopefully winning when we should and being competitive and interesting to $upport and watch. Don't claim to be an expert, just a 55 year plus fan from my youth. Hail State and sweep AU!

[Commercecomet24]

I think the closer is the issue for a BUNCH of people. As strange as it is just having a competent closer probably has us in the tournament in 22 and definitely in 23 and would probably have us hosting this year. That's now 3 years Lemonis and his PC have failed to identify a closer either already on the roster, through recruiting, or through the portal. At a certain point it stops being an anomaly and becomes a trend.

I 100% agree with everything you posted.

[StarkVegasSteve]

I 100% agree with everything you posted.

And I don't think it's a Lemonis can't see it thing. I just think unfortunately we don't have any good options on the staff. I think they planned on Schuelke or Auger being the closer. Unfortunately, Auger doesn't have put away stuff consistently and Schuelke doesn't either. I think you'd love for Colby Holcombe to become that guy but he just doesn't have any consistency.

[basedog]

Exactly- if we had a Closer we would be 10-5 in the SEC at worst right now and in line to host a Regional. We arent far off. But yes- you can certainly blame Lemon/Parker for us not having a Closer-type that has cost us games

But we don't have a closer, also we are 7-8 in conference, I'm hoping we close out at least 15-15. I also see the top 3 teams are just better, then you have 4-10 about the same. It's all about how we do the second half of the season, as you know I'm not a big Lemonis fan, if he makes some noise in the regionals like play in the final of a regional, I can see him being back.

I don't get upset with what you and 24 talk about, we just agree to disagree, it really doesn't matter what I think or anyone else of ED. I don't care for the "I told you" from either side.

We should win 2 against Auburn, they is a start for the second half.

Lastly, I'm not a big stat guy, I'm a bottom line guy, just win, something we haven't done a lot the last 2 1/2 years.

[ScooterDog]

Coach34 I appreciate the data, but this is year-to-date data I assume. I would like to see what our numbers are for the last 6 games. Not asking you to do that, but I don?t think the trend would look so good for the current games. Just my opinion.

[Goldendawg]

But we don't have a closer, also we are 7-8 in conference, I'm hoping we close out at least 15-15. I also see the top 3 teams are just better, then you have 4-10 about the same. It's all about how we do the second half of the season, as you know I'm not a big Lemonis fan, if he makes some noise in the regionals like play in the final of a regional, I can see him being back.

I don't get upset with what you and 24 talk about, we just agree to disagree, it really doesn't matter what I think or anyone else of ED. I don't care for the "I told you" from either side.

We should win 2 against Auburn, they is a start for the second half.

Lastly, I'm not a big stat guy, I'm a bottom line guy, just win, something we haven't done a lot the last 2 1/2 years.

100%. Hail State!

[Bdawg]

My question to all on this board is do you see us EVER getting back to Omaha with Lemonis running the program? I certainly don't and that is the reason I'm ready to move on even if we squeak into a regional somewhere. With Lemonis, and given the hitters we lose after this year ends, I really don't see how we will be as good next season as we are this season. Does anyone see our program improving next year over this year? It's pretty obvious Lemonis can manage a team but he can't build a team.

Seems there’s a lot of evidence that says he can’t take us back to Omaha. This is fully his team and we look pretty mediocre to me. Mediocre is not MSU baseball.

[Coach34]

Seems there’s a lot of evidence that says he can’t take us back to Omaha. This is fully his team and we look pretty mediocre to me. Mediocre is not MSU baseball.

How many times has State won the SEC in the last 30 years?
How many West titles?
How many SEC Tourney titles?

We have had 5 losing seasons in the last 15 years
We have had 7 losing SEC seasons in the last 15 years (excluding 2020)

Where do you guys get the high horse you are riding? State baseball aint Ohio State football or anything like it. We are a Top 25 program in baseball. We arent Elite in baseball

[Todd4State]

But we don't have a closer, also we are 7-8 in conference, I'm hoping we close out at least 15-15. I also see the top 3 teams are just better, then you have 4-10 about the same. It's all about how we do the second half of the season, as you know I'm not a big Lemonis fan, if he makes some noise in the regionals like play in the final of a regional, I can see him being back.

I don't get upset with what you and 24 talk about, we just agree to disagree, it really doesn't matter what I think or anyone else of ED. I don't care for the "I told you" from either side.

We should win 2 against Auburn, they is a start for the second half.

Lastly, I'm not a big stat guy, I'm a bottom line guy, just win, something we haven't done a lot the last 2 1/2 years.

The reality is we are improved but also underachieving. Both sides are correct.

[SPMT]

How many times has State won the SEC in the last 30 years?
How many West titles?
How many SEC Tourney titles?

We have had 5 losing seasons in the last 15 years
We have had 7 losing SEC seasons in the last 15 years (excluding 2020)

Where do you guys get the high horse you are riding? State baseball aint Ohio State football or anything like it. We are a Top 25 program in baseball. We arent Elite in baseball


Bro, don?t glaze the current staff out of pride or just to be argumentative. We won regionals from 2011 - 2021 all but three years. We made the tournament all but one year (2015).

We are not on that trajectory currently and we haven?t looked good as of late. Just be honest and call a spade a spade. It?s totally reasonable and plausible to think we will finish well but it?s also the same that we implode. I agree, let it play out, but there is nothing wrong with people bitching about the current performance, which is average at best.

[boot]

How many times has State won the SEC in the last 30 years?
How many West titles?
How many SEC Tourney titles?

We have had 5 losing seasons in the last 15 years
We have had 7 losing SEC seasons in the last 15 years (excluding 2020)

Where do you guys get the high horse you are riding? State baseball aint Ohio State football or anything like it. We are a Top 25 program in baseball. We arent Elite in baseball

2011 - NCAA Tourney appearance
2012 - SEC tourney champs, NCAA tourney app
2013 - CWS appearance (runner up)
2014 - NCAA Tournament appearance
2015 - Sucked ass
2016 - SEC Reg season champs, Super regional
2017 - Super regional
2018 - CWS appearance
2019 - CWS appearance
2021 - National Champions

Looks like we were pretty damn close to elite to me. I don?t think you could find 5 better resumes in the country during that span, and Lemonis somehow let it slip away.

[Commercecomet24]

The reality is we are improved but also underachieving. Both sides are correct.

I agree. We've improved from the last 2 years but our record could be so much better right now.

[Todd4State]

I agree. We've improved from the last 2 years but our record could be so much better right now.

Absolutely! Unfortunately for Lemonis it's not just about finding a closer. We make other mistakes in other areas as well and I think the lack of focus- Johnny Long's words not mine- in midweek games are probably going to be his ultimate undoing.

At the same time we're likely to win more games than last year and we'll be on the regional bubble unless this team melts down the second half of SEC play.