An UGA Error

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

Should not be the difference between the site saying the season is over and this site saying all is well, we have a good team.

Anyway, I looked up some stats to try and zoom out from just wins and loses or the latest on field product.

SEC ONLY: 5th in ERA (holy crap what a job by Parker!), 1st in defense (again a massive turnaround from last year), T11th SLG%, 6th OBP.

WHOLE SEASON: 6th in ERA, 2nd in defense, 13th SLG%, 10th OPB

Notes:

1) We've had it easy overall, with the (SECs) 12th ranked SOS per Warren Nolan. So our season long stats may be a bit inflated relative to our peers.

2) SEC only play the ERA of our opponents is (in order of when we played them) 11th, 6th, 7th, 12th. IE, the average ERA of our opponents is 9th so our already bad offensive numbers should get worse as we face the better staffs.

3) SEC only play our opponents offense have been pretty normal: average 5th in SLG% and 7.5 in OBP, so our pitching numbers seem legitimate.

Thoughts:

A) Jake G is absolutely awful at his job. Yet another year of sub average offense despite our top 10 classes he helped evaluate. Conversely, Parker is amazing

B) how "good" we truly are depends a lot on how you personally weigh defense, pitching, or offense. It also depends on if you think we "regress" to our non-con offense or if it's permanently improved. As I said in 2) above, we have faced relatively bad pitching so far.so I expect us to drop a bit even if we don't go full "non-con" again. I think we're roughly the 8th or 9th best team in the SEC but it's debatable.

Lemones' Buyout Dollar Question:

Is being the 8th best team enough to where you want Lemo back? I can't say he should be fired for it, but I also don't think we will be better next year. Feels like delaying the inevitable and wasting another year if we bring him back. But he won't be fired if we actually finish 8th. What would you want to happen?

[Coach34]

Amazing the lengths our fans will go to try and say we suck because they dont like Lemon.

We are a Top 20 team rankings wise.
We are 6-6 in the SEC when most thought we would not be able to achieve that and will be the favorite in the next 2 series.
We beat a team 2/3 that the entire nation considered a toss-up series. Especially considering Georgia has one of the best offenses in the country.
We should have swept the last 2 series- they were that close

We are going to be ranked inside the Top 20 tomorrow- and we have fans wanting to fire our HC. Fan is short of fanatic for a reason. Insanity

[Coach34]

and let me add:

If we are ranked heading into the Tourney which is likely- Lemon is not getting fired. Get ready for that

[Commercecomet24]

I know a lot don't like Lemonis but dang this team is fun to watch, and they're getting the job done. Heck what happened today oughta prove to people how tough these kids are. All the bs last night, Dohm goes down in the first, we get down 5-0 and they could've just said oh well we're done but they didn't and they found a way to win. If you blame Lemonis for the bad the you have to give him credit for the good and he did a phenomal job keeping this team together after last night. They've fought and scrapped all year so give him a little credit. I'm enjoying watching this team play

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

I know a lot don't like Lemonis but dang this team is fun to watch, and they're getting the job done. Heck what happened today oughta prove to people how tough these kids are. All the bs last night, Dohm goes down in the first, we get down 5-0 and they could've just said oh well we're done but they didn't and they found a way to win. If you blame Lemonis for the bad the you have to give him credit for the good and he did a phenomal job keeping this team together after last night. They've fought and scrapped all year so give him a little credit. I'm enjoying watching this team play

Fun to watch? Play hard? YES. But we simply aren't that talented and that's on Lemo. And his in game management still sucks. Again, we were an error away from dropping the series. We just aren't that good of a team overall even though they are entertaining as hell

[DownwardDawg]

We have a good baseball team. We have a very tough baseball team. We "should have" swept the last two series. We are better than Georgia and Florida. I watch the games. Some people love stats. Stats mean nothing to me. Win or lose.

[Todd4State]

Fun to watch? Play hard? YES. But we simply aren't that talented and that's on Lemo. And his in game management still sucks. Again, we were an error away from dropping the series. We just aren't that good of a team overall even though they are entertaining as hell

The stats don't agree with you. Or MLB scouts. We're also one pitch from winning the Florida series and we may win A&M if Morris Hodges is professional.

We have 21 wins this year and 6 SEC wins and we aren't at the midpoint of the SEC season. The past two years we won 26 and 27 with 9 SEC wins both seasons.

[Todd4State]

We have a good baseball team. We have a very tough baseball team. We "should have" swept the last two series. We are better than Georgia and Florida. I watch the games. Some people love stats. Stats mean nothing to me. Win or lose.

Only stat that matters!

[Todd4State]

Amazing the lengths our fans will go to try and say we suck because they dont like Lemon.

We are a Top 20 team rankings wise.
We are 6-6 in the SEC when most thought we would not be able to achieve that and will be the favorite in the next 2 series.
We beat a team 2/3 that the entire nation considered a toss-up series. Especially considering Georgia has one of the best offenses in the country.
We should have swept the last 2 series- they were that close

We are going to be ranked inside the Top 20 tomorrow- and we have fans wanting to fire our HC. Fan is short of fanatic for a reason. Insanity

I think the next two series will kind of tell the tale for us to a degree. We need wins. And we need to stop losing midweek games.

With our RPI there is a chance we don't make it with 13 SEC wins. It's at 47 last time I looked and we actually lost three spots today despite winning.

[BeardoMSU]

Fun to watch? Play hard? YES. But we simply aren't that talented and that's on Lemo. And his in game management still sucks. Again, we were an error away from dropping the series. We just aren't that good of a team overall even though they are entertaining as hell

We are also a 3rd baseman fielding a ground ball and stepping on his bag away from winning 3 out of 4 SEC series. Baseball is a different sport that the overly emotional sort can't quite handle.

For all it's flaws, this team is getting better. Hell, not for last night's BS, this weekend might've been a sweep.

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

Amazing the lengths our fans will go to try and say we suck because they dont like Lemon.

We are a Top 20 team rankings wise.
We are 6-6 in the SEC when most thought we would not be able to achieve that and will be the favorite in the next 2 series.
We beat a team 2/3 that the entire nation considered a toss-up series. Especially considering Georgia has one of the best offenses in the country.
We should have swept the last 2 series- they were that close

We are going to be ranked inside the Top 20 tomorrow- and we have fans wanting to fire our HC. Fan is short of fanatic for a reason. Insanity

1) Did I say we "suck"? I said we would finish 8th. Does that suck to you? If it does, do you think we should fire Lemo if he finished 8th?

2) We "will be the favorite in the next 2 series"... who gives a crap? I'm talking season long stats and season long results, not the next 6 games alone.

3) It was not considered a "toss up series", we were ranked and playing AT HOME (which you made a post about how much of an advantage that is a few weeks ago). You can't simultaneously cite our ranking as a sign we're really good and then also pretend a ranked team playing at home vs an unranked team is a "toss up". Many here were saying we needed a sweep

4) it's insane to say we "should have" swept 2 series that we went 3-3 in. That's you changing a LOT of breaks one way only. And today, we needed a late inning error to win. How on earth is that a "should" on our end?

5) NOBODY IS SAYING TO FIRE OUR HC!!! That's you putting words in my mouth. I'm talking about letting the season play out and evaluating then. I'm asking a question about what we want to do then IF things wind up with us 8th/9th.

[Quaoarsking]

and let me add:

If we are ranked heading into the Tourney which is likely- Lemon is not getting fired. Get ready for that

I think we would all be fine with that. Being viewed as a top 25 team by the voters and/or the selection committee in most years should be an easy baseline for any competent coach to meet.

I'm fine with Lemonis getting another year if we end the regular season as a top 25 program.

[Coach34]

I think we would all be fine with that. Being viewed as a top 25 team by the voters and/or the selection committee in most years should be an easy baseline for any competent coach to meet.

I'm fine with Lemonis getting another year if we end the regular season as a top 25 program.

good deal. Quality-level headed take

[Commercecomet24]

Fun to watch? Play hard? YES. But we simply aren't that talented and that's on Lemo. And his in game management still sucks. Again, we were an error away from dropping the series. We just aren't that good of a team overall even though they are entertaining as hell

No we have talent. If we didn't we wouldn't be winning. Who cares how you win? Heck we've lost our share of games because of errors. They happen in baseball. I've played and coached a lot of baseball and this team has talent. Sorry if you don't see it that way but me and a bunch of others including mlb scouts say you're wrong. We'll have to agree to disagree and see what happens by the end of the season.

[Commercecomet24]

The stats don't agree with you. Or MLB scouts. We're also one pitch from winning the Florida series and we may win A&M if Morris Hodges is professional.

We have 21 wins this year and 6 SEC wins and we aren't at the midpoint of the SEC season. The past two years we won 26 and 27 with 9 SEC wins both seasons.

This is 100% correct. I know plenty of scouts and coaches and they don't see it the way some of our fans do. I call it Lemonis derangement syndrome lol

[Commercecomet24]

We are also a 3rd baseman fielding a ground ball and stepping on his bag away from winning 3 out of 4 SEC series. Baseball is a different sport that the overly emotional sort can't quite handle.

For all it's flaws, this team is getting better. Hell, not for last night's BS, this weekend might've been a sweep.

Excellent post , my friend!

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

The stats don't agree with you. Or MLB scouts. We're also one pitch from winning the Florida series and we may win A&M if Morris Hodges is professional.

We have 21 wins this year and 6 SEC wins and we aren't at the midpoint of the SEC season. The past two years we won 26 and 27 with 9 SEC wins both seasons.

We have some elite good top end talent, but we also have Long, Larry, Kholer, no DH, and not a singe Fr hitter able to contribute. These are big talent issues and holes in the lineup

[Coach34]

No we have talent. If we didn't we wouldn't be winning. Who cares how you win? Heck we've lost our share of games because of errors. They happen in baseball. I've played and coached a lot of baseball and this team has talent. Sorry if you don't see it that way but me and a bunch of others including mlb scouts say you're wrong. We'll have to agree to disagree and see what happens by the end of the season.

draft this July?

Caribbean Jerk
Purdue
Dohm
Hines
Jordan
Hugesak
Holcombe

Those 7 are guanranteed to be drafted

Mershon, Loftin, Siary, Pico...talented

Freshmen? Cupp, Stevens, Grant, McKenzie...talented Freshmen

We may not be th most talented team in the SEC- but we are fine talent-wise

[Commercecomet24]

draft this July?

Caribbean Jerk
Purdue
Dohm
Hines
Jordan
Hugesak
Holcombe

Those 7 are guanranteed to be drafted

Mershon, Loftin, Siary, Pico...talented

Freshmen? Cupp, Stevens, Grant, McKenzie...talented Freshmen

We may not be th most talented team in the SEC- but we are fine talent-wise

Exactly!

[BeardoMSU]

Excellent post , my friend!

Thanks, bruv!

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

Look I hope I'm as wrong on Lemo as I was on Hujsak lol

BUT, I think it's interesting all the different logic I have being thrown at me to tell me I'm wrong. Much is contradictory.

C34 cites being ranked as proof we're good... but ignores that RPI says we suck.

DownwardDawg says "wins are all the matter" to downplay the stats, but others say we're better than our record because we "should have" won some games we lost. Well which is it- are the end results what we care about or do we get credit for being close?

I'm told the team is very talented, but doesn't the fact we racked up so many non-con loses with a "very talented" roster just look bad on Lemo? (and when I say we aren't talented I wasn't being clear, we have top end talent but also some embarrassing holes in the lineup that signal poor evaluations/development)

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

draft this July?

Caribbean Jerk
Purdue
Dohm
Hines
Jordan
Hugesak
Holcombe

Those 7 are guanranteed to be drafted

Mershon, Loftin, Siary, Pico...talented

Freshmen? Cupp, Stevens, Grant, McKenzie...talented Freshmen

We may not be th most talented team in the SEC- but we are fine talent-wise

We do have talent, you are correct. I wasn't speaking precisely and that's on me.

What I mean is, we have "roster holes". No 3B recruited and we pick a mediocre one in the Portal. No 2B recruited and we have to portal in Larry, and even an extra year later we don't have a decent 2B. Don't have a 3rd OF and need to use chance (thankfully he's been playing better but we can all agree he's not a top end talent). No DH. Guys like Chester on the roster that aren't SEC caliber. And Fr? You want to cite the Fr hitters as "talent"? We don't have a single Fr contributor even with the holes I mentioned. Last year we got Jordan and Highfill and Mershon. This class isn't close to that one so far

[dawgday166]

I think we have a pretty good team that is gonna get better. I think the "holes" in the lineup will get better too. And I think young guns on the staff are gonna become more consistent.
I'm fairly optimistic but then again ... we are MSU and it seems every time I get optimistic we crash and burn.

[The Federalist Engineer]

We are also a 3rd baseman fielding a ground ball and stepping on his bag away from winning 3 out of 4 SEC series. Baseball is a different sport that the overly emotional sort can't quite handle.

For all it's flaws, this team is getting better. Hell, not for last night's BS, this weekend might've been a sweep.

All true, it's like MSU is learning to win again. If they played flawless for 10 games, they could beat anybody. Given the SEC schedule, it's clearly true.

TAM got a gift on the Sunday Ump. UGA got a Birmingham gift, and UF got a massive error to take 3 wins.

Not saying "we are really 9-3 and not 6-6". Just saying that MSU is competitive again. This is not a judgement, this is true.

[Todd4State]

Look I hope I'm as wrong on Lemo as I was on Hujsak lol

BUT, I think it's interesting all the different logic I have being thrown at me to tell me I'm wrong. Much is contradictory.

C34 cites being ranked as proof we're good... but ignores that RPI says we suck.

DownwardDawg says "wins are all the matter" to downplay the stats, but others say we're better than our record because we "should have" won some games we lost. Well which is it- are the end results what we care about or do we get credit for being close?

I'm told the team is very talented, but doesn't the fact we racked up so many non-con loses with a "very talented" roster just look bad on Lemo? (and when I say we aren't talented I wasn't being clear, we have top end talent but also some embarrassing holes in the lineup that signal poor evaluations/development)

The reality about RPI is it takes care of itself if you win. I don't think anyone with a straight face would logically believe that Xavier with their 15-16 record and is 1-2 in the Big East is better than MSU but their RPI is higher for now.

That's why no one uses it to rank a team at this point in the season.

[Commercecomet24]

The reality about RPI is it takes care of itself if you win. I don't think anyone with a straight face would logically believe that Xavier with their 15-16 record and is 1-2 in the Big East is better than MSU but their RPI is higher for now.

That's why no one uses it to rank a team at this point in the season.

Exactly

[Todd4State]

All true, it's like MSU is learning to win again. If they played flawless for 10 games, they could beat anybody. Given the SEC schedule, it's clearly true.

TAM got a gift on the Sunday Ump. UGA got a Birmingham gift, and UF got a massive error to take 3 wins.

Not saying "we are really 9-3 and not 6-6". Just saying that MSU is competitive again. This is not a judgement, this is true.

I'm not even that concerned about what we do in the SEC as long as it is good enough to get us in the regionals because if we do that we have a chance to make noise. The league is too balanced. And history has shown that you can be a dominant team like Tennessee a couple of years ago and not win it all.

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

This team is like a Rorshack test (those stupid ink blot things) in that people see what they want to see.

Positives: The team fights hard, is 6-6, is better than they were at the start of the year, has shown the ability to play with good teams, is undeniably way better than the last 2 seasons.

Negatives: have no closer, have no 3rd starter, have multiple dead bats in the lineup, have no Fr contributors aside from Stevens 2IP of relief a weekend, has lost to a lot of bad teams (has a bad RPI due to that), Lemo still makes questionable in game decisions, and our 6-6 SEC record could be fools gold now that LSU and UF have shown they aren't as good as we thought when we played them.

Are we getting better each week, or have we peaked? Is the improvement vs the last 2 years indicative of improvement next year too, or does the lack of Fr contributors call that into question? Is this a blip because talent were about to have drafted, or is the talent we're about to have drafted indicative of our new talent level under Lemo?

Frankly I don't think anyone knows. There's evidence to support a lot of opinions but nobody will know the big picture until we get a feel for the '25 team. Right now we need to stack up wins because this is the easy part of the schedule

[DownwardDawg]

Look I hope I'm as wrong on Lemo as I was on Hujsak lol

BUT, I think it's interesting all the different logic I have being thrown at me to tell me I'm wrong. Much is contradictory.

C34 cites being ranked as proof we're good... but ignores that RPI says we suck.

DownwardDawg says "wins are all the matter" to downplay the stats, but others say we're better than our record because we "should have" won some games we lost. Well which is it- are the end results what we care about or do we get credit for being close?

I'm told the team is very talented, but doesn't the fact we racked up so many non-con loses with a "very talented" roster just look bad on Lemo? (and when I say we aren't talented I wasn't being clear, we have top end talent but also some embarrassing holes in the lineup that signal poor evaluations/development)

Yeah, one thing about me, I hate stats. I know some of my "buddies" on this board love stats. That's fine. I have no problem with that. But I was taught years ago, stats are for losers. Winners point to the scoreboard . Losers point to the stats and talk about "how close we are".

I'm just not a stats guy.

[shoeless joe]

I know a lot don't like Lemonis but dang this team is fun to watch, and they're getting the job done. Heck what happened today oughta prove to people how tough these kids are. All the bs last night, Dohm goes down in the first, we get down 5-0 and they could've just said oh well we're done but they didn't and they found a way to win. If you blame Lemonis for the bad the you have to give him credit for the good and he did a phenomal job keeping this team together after last night. They've fought and scrapped all year so give him a little credit. I'm enjoying watching this team play

agree here.

i'm not big on Lemonis but i don't hate him either. he reminds me of brian snitker for the braves. and the discussions myself and my braves fan bud on here used to have about him. yes...they both have weaknesses from a management stand point and i don't like some of the things i see happen on the field. but the teams play a certain way and you can't take that for granted. get a great game manager that players won't play for and it's all moot anyway. we'll see how it all plays out the rest of this year.

(not saying Lemonis is on the same level as the braves manager, just saying they both have deficiencies that also allow for their strengths)

[Commercecomet24]

agree here.

i'm not big on Lemonis but i don't hate him either. he reminds me of brian snitker for the braves. and the discussions myself and my braves fan bud on here used to have about him. yes...they both have weaknesses from a management stand point and i don't like some of the things i see happen on the field. but the teams play a certain way and you can't take that for granted. get a great game manager that players won't play for and it's all moot anyway. we'll see how it all plays out the rest of this year.

(not saying Lemonis is on the same level as the braves manager, just saying they both have deficiencies that also allow for their strengths)

I agree. Well thought out post. I like it.

[Offshore Dawg]

A coach can only change pitchers and set up a fielding situation. The players have to make plays and pitches.

[SPMT]

The stats don't agree with you. Or MLB scouts. We're also one pitch from winning the Florida series and we may win A&M if Morris Hodges is professional.

We have 21 wins this year and 6 SEC wins and we aren't at the midpoint of the SEC season. The past two years we won 26 and 27 with 9 SEC wins both seasons.

I would not be shocked if we end up being the Ole Miss of 2022. Not great during the season but getting better.

It will hinge on how the staff improves. If it does like theirs did in 2022, watch out. If hitting throughout the lineup improves??.

[Ranchdawg]

I do not understand Gotro?s hitting philosophy. I thought you were taught to read the ball as it leaves the pitcher?s hand. But it appears to me we are reading the ball a lot closer to home plate. Thus our hitters not able to make solid contact. Also it appears to me that umpires this year are generally giving a very low strike zone. Why are we not adjusting to this low strike zone in their swings at the plate.

I may be way off base with my thoughts. Pardon with the pun!

[SPMT]

I do not understand Gotro?s hitting philosophy. I thought you were taught to read the ball as it leaves the pitcher?s hand. But it appears to me we are reading the ball a lot closer to home plate. Thus our hitters not able to make solid contact. Also it appears to me that umpires this year are generally giving a very low strike zone. Why are we not adjusting to this low strike zone in their swings at the plate.

I may be way off base with my thoughts. Pardon with the pun!

I don’t know regarding higher level pitching at any age. Would love to hear c24.

Tony Gwynn said look at the pitchers cap bill or another spot in that area them slide your eyes over.

That’s a part of hitting we don’t hear much about but imo is arguably more important than some goofy swing adjustment.

Also, is it a hard focus on the ball or a soft focus. In shooting guns with a red dot for example, the best shooters talk about target focus and seeing the red dot cross that spot in a soft focus/blurry. This is for fast shooting in a competition or cwb setting. So, to me I would have a very hard focus on the ball it’s closer to what fast shooters do.

[RiverCityDawg]

I just don't understand why people constantly want to push the "keep or fire Lemonis" conversation forward now. It's just not time to have that discussion. Baseball has to be looked at with a large sample size in view. Once he came back this year it was always going to be about how the season went in totality, yet at every turn we have fans who anting to declare judgement one way or the other.

What we know now is the pitching issue has been fixed, the catcher issue has been fixed, and the toughness issue seems to have been fixed. Those were the biggest problems. We're clearly improved. From there, we just have to let it play out to see whether it was "enough". Trying to decide Lemonis's fate after every game/series is pointless (and tiring).

[Pancho]

The SEC record is better than most expected but the non conference losses are still puzzling. He has a lease until seasons end. let it play out

[Commercecomet24]

I don’t know regarding higher level pitching at any age. Would love to hear c24.

Tony Gwynn said look at the pitchers cap bill or another spot in that area them slide your eyes over.

That’s a part of hitting we don’t hear much about but imo is arguably more important than some goofy swing adjustment.

Also, is it a hard focus on the ball or a soft focus. In shooting guns with a red dot for example, the best shooters talk about target focus and seeing the red dot cross that spot in a soft focus/blurry. This is for fast shooting in a competition or cwb setting. So, to me I would have a very hard focus on the ball it’s closer to what fast shooters do.

There are many different approaches that can work. When I was playing and learning the game, Ted Williams book "The Science of Hitting" was almost required reading. He would probably be extremely upset at some of the approaches today, lol. The man hit 40+ hrs, every year, struckout less than 50 times a year, and walked over 100. The man knew hitting. I taught a lot of his theories to my players. Ted said a lot of hitters go up there with no plan, and if you're not using your brain and have a plan, then you're fighting a losing battle. I wanted aggressive hitters and i always wanted them to have a plan going to the plate. It was always frustrating to put a plan together and then watch them deviate and have a terrible ab, but it happens and you have to teach from that. You have to teach situational hitting as well. I liked my hitters to work counts. 0-0 go up looking for a pitch in your spot and spit on anything else. 2-0, 3-1, once again look for your pitch and not what the pitcher want's you to hit. 2-1, 3-2 have to be a little more aggressive but selective, as well as you're still in the drivers seat. 0-2 gotta work to get the count back in your favor or put the ball in play. When the counts in your favor you have to look to drive the ball not just poke it somewhere. When counts even or you're behind focus on staying up the middle. Always have to know the situation as a hitter as well. Runner on third less than 2 outs, you have to get that runner in, Runner on second 0 outs need to make sure you move him to third no matter what,etc.. These are just the basics. Lot more strategy and training obviously but these are the basics. Biggest thing for me is to keep constant pressure on the pitcher and defense. We ran the bases aggressively and stole tons of bases. We literally ran teams off the field because I even had my slower guys moving. Heck my son who was an average base runner could steal third standing up just about everytime because i taught him how to get that walking lead. If teams know you run a lot it puts their defense in constant motion when runners are on and creates space and holes. I won 2 national championships over the course of my coaching with teenage teams,and of course its not near the level of sec baseball, and I am in no way saying i'm anywhere near the level of SEC coaches, but we faced tons of teams with d1 players and the competition level at the national level is fierce, to say the least. And I'm proud of the players i've put in higher levels of baseball. Here's the caveat, I certainly don't have all the answers and this was just my approach to teaching the game and i had a lot of success with it, but their are others with way more knowledge than me. If you think you know everything you quit learning and baseball is a constantly evolving game and I'm getting old. My oldest son is a high school coach and old school like me. My youngest son is the pitching development director at baseball training facility and he's got all the new fangled, trackman, rapsodo, all the high tech stuff and it's hilarious to hear some of the conversations we have when we're all together. The 2 of them got in one heated discussion about core rotation and i've banned either one of them from brining it up again, lol!

We faced a team in a championship one time with an lsu commit pitching and they were pretty cocky and saying nobody hits this kid. We beat them on a steal of home because he was so focused on the hitter he was in the windup and when our kid took off he balked, lol. Those cajuns flipped out and were dog cussing us. It was hilarious.!

Anyway I just love talking baseball, and i'm sure many don't agree with my views and that's ok because that's what makes baseball so great is that you can be successful with just about any philosophy if taught properly.

[Commercecomet24]

I just don't understand why people constantly want to push the "keep or fire Lemonis" conversation forward now. It's just not time to have that discussion. Baseball has to be looked at with a large sample size in view. Once he came back this year it was always going to be about how the season went in totality, yet at every turn we have fans who anting to declare judgement one way or the other.

What we know now is the pitching issue has been fixed, the catcher issue has been fixed, and the toughness issue seems to have been fixed. Those were the biggest problems. We're clearly improved. From there, we just have to let it play out to see whether it was "enough". Trying to decide Lemonis's fate after every game/series is pointless (and tiring).

Thank you so much for this post! This is the only correct answer.

[The Federalist Engineer]

A coach can only change pitchers and set up a fielding situation. The players have to make plays and pitches.

You underestimating Scott Foxhall, he completely messed up many young men.

Hardin had a 21 ERA in the SEC last year. Not 2.10 but 21 ERA.

MSU led the SEC in Walks, not by 10 walks above the mean, but 100 walks above the mean.

Jackson Fristoe went from a new Will Bednar to a new Paul Young, in one season. Then became Andrew Walling the next season.

KC Hunt had 5 Freshman-Level seasons and Stinnett looked like a right-fielder pitching for laughs

[Ranchdawg]

I totally agree that Lemonis gets to finish the year and hope he gets us to a team that is worthy of the M over S standards. I was in no way implying that with my discussion of hitting approach. Just curious what more knowledgeable people thought about the subject. Was just curious watching our hitting from the stands or tv. I am pleased by the grit and determination that i am now seeing from our players. Oh by the way it?s GTHOM week. Go dogs!

[BrunswickDawg]

There are many different approaches that can work. When I was playing and learning the game, Ted Williams book "The Science of Hitting" was almost required reading. He would probably be extremely upset at some of the approaches today, lol. The man hit 40+ hrs, every year, struckout less than 50 times a year, and walked over 100. The man knew hitting. I taught a lot of his theories to my players. Ted said a lot of hitters go up there with no plan, and if you're not using your brain and have a plan, then you're fighting a losing battle. I wanted aggressive hitters and i always wanted them to have a plan going to the plate. It was always frustrating to put a plan together and then watch them deviate and have a terrible ab, but it happens and you have to teach from that. You have to teach situational hitting as well. I liked my hitters to work counts. 0-0 go up looking for a pitch in your spot and spit on anything else. 2-0, 3-1, once again look for your pitch and not what the pitcher want's you to hit. 2-1, 3-2 have to be a little more aggressive but selective, as well as you're still in the drivers seat. 0-2 gotta work to get the count back in your favor or put the ball in play. When the counts in your favor you have to look to drive the ball not just poke it somewhere. When counts even or you're behind focus on staying up the middle. Always have to know the situation as a hitter as well. Runner on third less than 2 outs, you have to get that runner in, Runner on second 0 outs need to make sure you move him to third no matter what,etc.. These are just the basics. Lot more strategy and training obviously but these are the basics. Biggest thing for me is to keep constant pressure on the pitcher and defense. We ran the bases aggressively and stole tons of bases. We literally ran teams off the field because I even had my slower guys moving. Heck my son who was an average base runner could steal third standing up just about everytime because i taught him how to get that walking lead. If teams know you run a lot it puts their defense in constant motion when runners are on and creates space and holes. I won 2 national championships over the course of my coaching with teenage teams,and of course its not near the level of sec baseball, and I am in no way saying i'm anywhere near the level of SEC coaches, but we faced tons of teams with d1 players and the competition level at the national level is fierce, to say the least. And I'm proud of the players i've put in higher levels of baseball. Here's the caveat, I certainly don't have all the answers and this was just my approach to teaching the game and i had a lot of success with it, but their are others with way more knowledge than me. If you think you know everything you quit learning and baseball is a constantly evolving game and I'm getting old. My oldest son is a high school coach and old school like me. My youngest son is the pitching development director at baseball training facility and he's got all the new fangled, trackman, rapsodo, all the high tech stuff and it's hilarious to hear some of the conversations we have when we're all together. The 2 of them got in one heated discussion about core rotation and i've banned either one of them from brining it up again, lol!

We faced a team in a championship one time with an lsu commit pitching and they were pretty cocky and saying nobody hits this kid. We beat them on a steal of home because he was so focused on the hitter he was in the windup and when our kid took off he balked, lol. Those cajuns flipped out and were dog cussing us. It was hilarious.!

Anyway I just love talking baseball, and i'm sure many don't agree with my views and that's ok because that's what makes baseball so great is that you can be successful with just about any philosophy if taught properly.

THIS^^^^

Players don't seem to be learning anything anywhere about situational hitting. Metrix and Exit Velocity have about killed the science of hitting. I loved "The Science of Hitting" by the Greatest Hitter Ever.
Every player need to read it. They also need to read "The Art of Hitting .300" by Charley Lau. Lau built George Brett, Wade Boggs, and Don Mattingly - three of the best ever.

[Commercecomet24]

THIS^^^^

Players don't seem to be learning anything anywhere about situational hitting. Metrix and Exit Velocity have about killed the science of hitting. I loved "The Science of Hitting" by the Greatest Hitter Ever.
Every player need to read it. They also need to read "The Art of Hitting .300" by Charley Lau. Lau built George Brett, Wade Boggs, and Don Mattingly - three of the best ever.

Ah, yes Charley Lau. I really got into his hitting techniques in high school and it helped me(a smaller guy) develop some pop. I was pretty much a line drive singles guy, but his techniques actually helped me become a gap to gap doubles guy too. Carried into my later career but never become a hr threat, lol.

[SPMT]

There are many different approaches that can work. When I was playing and learning the game, Ted Williams book "The Science of Hitting" was almost required reading. He would probably be extremely upset at some of the approaches today, lol. The man hit 40+ hrs, every year, struckout less than 50 times a year, and walked over 100. The man knew hitting. I taught a lot of his theories to my players. Ted said a lot of hitters go up there with no plan, and if you're not using your brain and have a plan, then you're fighting a losing battle. I wanted aggressive hitters and i always wanted them to have a plan going to the plate. It was always frustrating to put a plan together and then watch them deviate and have a terrible ab, but it happens and you have to teach from that. You have to teach situational hitting as well. I liked my hitters to work counts. 0-0 go up looking for a pitch in your spot and spit on anything else. 2-0, 3-1, once again look for your pitch and not what the pitcher want's you to hit. 2-1, 3-2 have to be a little more aggressive but selective, as well as you're still in the drivers seat. 0-2 gotta work to get the count back in your favor or put the ball in play. When the counts in your favor you have to look to drive the ball not just poke it somewhere. When counts even or you're behind focus on staying up the middle. Always have to know the situation as a hitter as well. Runner on third less than 2 outs, you have to get that runner in, Runner on second 0 outs need to make sure you move him to third no matter what,etc.. These are just the basics. Lot more strategy and training obviously but these are the basics. Biggest thing for me is to keep constant pressure on the pitcher and defense. We ran the bases aggressively and stole tons of bases. We literally ran teams off the field because I even had my slower guys moving. Heck my son who was an average base runner could steal third standing up just about everytime because i taught him how to get that walking lead. If teams know you run a lot it puts their defense in constant motion when runners are on and creates space and holes. I won 2 national championships over the course of my coaching with teenage teams,and of course its not near the level of sec baseball, and I am in no way saying i'm anywhere near the level of SEC coaches, but we faced tons of teams with d1 players and the competition level at the national level is fierce, to say the least. And I'm proud of the players i've put in higher levels of baseball. Here's the caveat, I certainly don't have all the answers and this was just my approach to teaching the game and i had a lot of success with it, but their are others with way more knowledge than me. If you think you know everything you quit learning and baseball is a constantly evolving game and I'm getting old. My oldest son is a high school coach and old school like me. My youngest son is the pitching development director at baseball training facility and he's got all the new fangled, trackman, rapsodo, all the high tech stuff and it's hilarious to hear some of the conversations we have when we're all together. The 2 of them got in one heated discussion about core rotation and i've banned either one of them from brining it up again, lol!

We faced a team in a championship one time with an lsu commit pitching and they were pretty cocky and saying nobody hits this kid. We beat them on a steal of home because he was so focused on the hitter he was in the windup and when our kid took off he balked, lol. Those cajuns flipped out and were dog cussing us. It was hilarious.!

Anyway I just love talking baseball, and i'm sure many don't agree with my views and that's ok because that's what makes baseball so great is that you can be successful with just about any philosophy if taught properly.


I bought that book and gave it to my kid. It?s brilliant. He was so far ahead of his time.

While he doesn?t say launch angle, he definitely advocates a slight uppercut which matches the angle of the pitch. Common sense to me.

[Commercecomet24]

I bought that book and gave it to my kid. It?s brilliant. He was so far ahead of his time.

While he doesn?t say launch angle, he definitely advocates a slight uppercut which matches the angle of the pitch. Common sense to me.

Exactly! I had both my sons read it too. Launch angle wasn't a thing then but Ted knew in order to lift the ball you had to have slight uppercut. He was way ahead of his time. There's an apocryphal story about him when he was managing the senators. It was spring training and he was asking his hitter if they saw which seams the bat was hitting and they all thought he was crazy. Teds in his 50's at this point so he said i'll show you what i mean. He got in the box, chalked the bat and correctly called 9 out of 10 balls he hit and which seams the bat struck. The man had incredible vision and he knew hitting better than anyone who's ever lived. If he hadn't spent 4 years of his prime career fighting for this country there's absolutely no telling what numbers he would've put up.

[BrunswickDawg]

Ah, yes Charley Lau. I really got into his hitting techniques in high school and it helped me(a smaller guy) develop some pop. I was pretty much a line drive singles guy, but his techniques actually helped me become a gap to gap doubles guy too. Carried into my later career but never become a hr threat, lol.

I read both trying to become a switch hitter. Building a left handed swing from scratch was an interesting undertaking, and at the time Brett/Boggs/Mattingly were the best - so I wanted to hit lefty like them. Interestingly, I found my natural left-handed stance was more like Rod Carew - which worked well with Lau's "flat hands" approach. I worked on it all one off-season and through my Sr. year, and finally got brave enough to try it in my next to the last high school game. Of course I walked on 4 straight pitches and never got a chance to swing. That's baseball.

[Commercecomet24]

I read both trying to become a switch hitter. Building a left handed swing from scratch was an interesting undertaking, and at the time Brett/Boggs/Mattingly were the best - so I wanted to hit lefty like them. Interestingly, I found my natural left-handed stance was more like Rod Carew - which worked well with Lau's "flat hands" approach. I worked on it all one off-season and through my Sr. year, and finally got brave enough to try it in my next to the last high school game. Of course I walked on 4 straight pitches and never got a chance to swing. That's baseball.

That's an awesome story! I wished you would've got to swing it but as you said that's baseball. I tried hitting lefty one time and fouled out to the catcher. It was very weak, lol!

[BrunswickDawg]

Exactly! I had both my sons read it too. Launch angle wasn't a thing then but Ted knew in order to lift the ball you had to have slight uppercut. He was way ahead of his time. There's an apocryphal story about him when he was managing the senators. It was spring training and he was asking his hitter if they saw which seams the bat was hitting and they all thought he was crazy. Teds in his 50's at this point so he said i'll show you what i mean. He got in the box, chalked the bat and correctly called 9 out of 10 balls he hit and which seams the bat struck. The man had incredible vision and he knew hitting better than anyone who's ever lived. If he hadn't spent 4 years of his prime career fighting for this country there's absolutely no telling what numbers he would've put up.

My favorite Ted Williams story was in SI, where they did a sit down with him, Boggs, and Mattingly. Ted asked if they ever smelled burning wood on a foul tip. Mattingly said he had a couple of time. Boggs thought they were both making it up.
Williams really should get credit for the Launch Angle approach. But, I think he would be appalled in how it is being applied.

[Commercecomet24]

My favorite Ted Williams story was in SI, where they did a sit down with him, Boggs, and Mattingly. Ted asked if they ever smelled burning wood on a foul tip. Mattingly said he had a couple of time. Boggs thought they were both making it up.
Williams really should get credit for the Launch Angle approach. But, I think he would be appalled in how it is being applied.

I remember reading that and also remember him asking mark McGwire at the all star game in Boston if he ever smelled it and McGwire said yes. Teddy Ballgame definitely invented launch angle even though he didn't coin the term and he would absolutely go berserk watching some of the approaches now!

[Coach34]

2 books my father made me read was Polk’s and Williams

[Commercecomet24]

2 books my father made me read was Polk’s and Williams

I had Polks. Actually made an official visit up there and spent some time with Polk. Man the dude knew a lot of baseball and that was 40+ years ago and for a 17 year old kid I was wide eyed and blown away.

[Todd4State]

Exactly! I had both my sons read it too. Launch angle wasn't a thing then but Ted knew in order to lift the ball you had to have slight uppercut. He was way ahead of his time. There's an apocryphal story about him when he was managing the senators. It was spring training and he was asking his hitter if they saw which seams the bat was hitting and they all thought he was crazy. Teds in his 50's at this point so he said i'll show you what i mean. He got in the box, chalked the bat and correctly called 9 out of 10 balls he hit and which seams the bat struck. The man had incredible vision and he knew hitting better than anyone who's ever lived. If he hadn't spent 4 years of his prime career fighting for this country there's absolutely no telling what numbers he would've put up.

I like what Dante Bichette said one time about launch angle. He said all launch angle means is just hitting the ball out in front.

I probably explained this extremely poorly but there is a video of it somewhere out there.

[Todd4State]

Ah, yes Charley Lau. I really got into his hitting techniques in high school and it helped me(a smaller guy) develop some pop. I was pretty much a line drive singles guy, but his techniques actually helped me become a gap to gap doubles guy too. Carried into my later career but never become a hr threat, lol.

It's interesting because Ted Williams and Walt Hriniak who was a Lau disciple often disagreed when Hriniak was the Red Sox hitting coach.

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

Bump. I was told I have "Lemonis derangement syndrome" for saying we were the 8th best team in the SEC. Turns out I was too kind

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

Amazing the lengths our fans will go to try and say we suck because they dont like Lemon.

We are a Top 20 team rankings wise.
We are 6-6 in the SEC when most thought we would not be able to achieve that and will be the favorite in the next 2 series.
We beat a team 2/3 that the entire nation considered a toss-up series. Especially considering Georgia has one of the best offenses in the country.
We should have swept the last 2 series- they were that close

We are going to be ranked inside the Top 20 tomorrow- and we have fans wanting to fire our HC. Fan is short of fanatic for a reason. Insanity

Lol