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Originally Posted by
msstate7
This discussion started the premise that babe was more dominant during his era than any other player in their era. Kind of a valid point that only white players could play in Ruth era. Hell, the other player in this discussion is bonds who could not play then.
Babe one of my favorite topics. Josh Gibson & Satchel Paige would've been way up there back then too, but not by themselves.
BTW ... got to thinking on Andruw Jones. So researched it some. I'd probably put him top 2 or 3 defensive CFs. and definitely top 10 OFs. I knew he was good to great defensively. Memory kinda hazy on it some. I know I hated to see him come to plate in postseason after first 2 or 3 years in league cause a good pitcher would wear out that hole in his swing.
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Originally Posted by
Commercecomet24
He would?ve had 850 hrs if he hadn?t spent first 4 years as one of the best pitchers in mlb
No doubt in my mind.
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Originally Posted by
dawgday166
Babe one of my favorite topics. Josh Gibson & Satchel Paige would've been way up there back then too, but not by themselves.
BTW ... got to thinking on Andruw Jones. So researched it some. I'd probably put him top 2 or 3 defensive CFs. and definitely top 10 OFs. I knew he was good to great defensively. Memory kinda hazy on it some. I know I hated to see him come to plate in postseason after first 2 or 3 years in league cause a good pitcher would wear out that hole in his swing.
No, Andruw is the best defensively. See if he could have played in Ruth era, he would have stole some of those HRs lol
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Originally Posted by
msstate7
No, Andruw is the best defensively. See if he could have played in Ruth era, he would have stole some of those HRs lol
Haha. Probably take about 100 or so off the Babe's record.
I'm going with Mays, then Andruw.
RF I'm going with Clemente.
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Here is what makes Babe Ruth stand out above any other player, ever, in baseball.
He single handedly transformed the sport. Everything about the game was changed because of what Ruth was doing. He showed that offense and power was the future. To capitalize on what Ruth was doing, they changed rules, the ball, changed the size of ball parks, and the philosophy of how the game should be played, all to focus on Home Runs. Name another player - in any sport - that has had that type of an impact on the sport.
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Originally Posted by
dawgday166
Haha. Probably take about 100 or so off the Babe's record.
I'm going with Mays, then Andruw.
RF I'm going with Clemente.
To be fair, I never saw Mays play. I did watch Andruw, and no one touches him since I have been watching. If you put any credence in fangraphs though, they say Andruw > mays defensively
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Originally Posted by
BrunswickDawg
Here is what makes Babe Ruth stand out above any other player, ever, in baseball.
He single handedly transformed the sport. Everything about the game was changed because of what Ruth was doing. He showed that offense and power was the future. To capitalize on what Ruth was doing, they changed rules, the ball, changed the size of ball parks, and the philosophy of how the game should be played, all to focus on Home Runs. Name another player - in any sport - that has had that type of an impact on the sport.
Great great post, Brunswick! He was the first, and set the standard and changed the game! Absolutely great post!
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Originally Posted by
msstate7
To be fair, I never saw Mays play. I did watch Andruw, and no one touches him since I have been watching. If you put any credence in fangraphs though, they say Andruw > mays defensively
To be fair I'm only going on Mays' highlights. The more I thought about it I have to admit I don't believe I ever saw anyone as consistently good as Andruw while also making the great plays, except maybe Griffey Jr.
Don't know about fangraphs ... you the stats junkie lol. I do a little research from time to time to either prove a point or make sure I will be or was accurate in a statement.
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Originally Posted by
msstate7
To be fair, I never saw Mays play. I did watch Andruw, and no one touches him since I have been watching. If you put any credence in fangraphs though, they say Andruw > mays defensively
7 you missed seeing a great one. I told my son the first time I saw Andruw make one of those patented plays in cf that he looked like mays. Those 2 were the greatest defensive cfs of all time no doubt. I loved watching both play so I can?t decide, I just call em 1 and 1a. And if you didn?t get to see Clemente play he was special! I cried that New Year?s Eve when they said Clemente?s plane went down.
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Originally Posted by
ShotgunDawg
You can go either way but I take Bonds.
Here is why:
- Bonds has FAR more defensive value. Bonds had a life time defensive WAR of 67.6 & Ruth was -18.6
- Bonds had 500+ more lifetime walks than Ruth. Give him those 500 more BBs & his lifetime WAR is higher.
- Bonds stole 514 bases compared to Ruth's 123. Barry simply caused more headaches for other team.
- Ruth had far more protection in the lineup than Bonds.
- Bonds played in an era of bullpens & free agency, where he had to face numerous more pitchers once a game or once in a career.
- Bonds is the only player in history to completely change his game. Was an batting average/stolen base guy & then transformed into a home run guy. How he did that is irrelevent in this conversation.
We don't know if Chipper used PEDS, Vlad, Hoffman, etc. We simply don't KNOW, but I truthfully believe that if you were building a baseball team from scratch with any one person to ever grace planet Earth, you would choose Barry Lamar Bonds.
Based on the fact that Lou gehrig batted behind Ruth forever shows you are the stupidest MLB poster in the history of God.
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Originally Posted by
Todd4State
I did a major research paper on Babe Ruth and I am convinced that he was the greatest player of all time. You have to consider the era and the context of what he did and when he did it. He really was only a hitter for about 16 seasons- compared to something like 24 for Aaron and 21 for Bonds. Ruth played in an era that was not conducive to hitting home runs and the parks were much larger in general than they are now. Also, the rules were different- in Ruth's day if you hit the foul pole it was a foul ball and not a home run. There is a book called The Year Babe Ruth hit 104 Home Runs which basically poses that had Ruth played in today's era he would have hit 104 home runs at his peak season of 1921. Obviously, that's all speculative but it does give an idea of the context of how dominant he was then and comparing it to today's standards. He could have probably played another year or two with the DH rule too.
But the other reason I think Ruth was the greatest is because I think he would have made the HOF as a pitcher if he stuck to that. He was a 20+ game winner for the Red Sox and I believe he was undefeated for the Yankees pitching in cameo appearances late in the season. In his prime he was a better defensive player than given credit for because most people remember the out of shape Babe Ruth. He also struck out a lot less than people realize- he was an outstanding hitter.
I think if he played today he would be a DH/closer maybe like what the Angels are possibly going to do with Shohei Ohtani. I'm curious to see what the Angels do with him and how they use him. Ruth was probably one of the very few people that could have been a legit dual position player at the MLB level.
Thanks again Todd
OGood shit man. Let's not forget how he pegged guys at 2nt field with that gun he had from rt
The9th
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Originally Posted by
Bully13
Thanks again Todd
OGood shit man. Let's not forget how he pegged guys at 2nt field with that gun he had from rt
The9th
17 me
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Originally Posted by
BrunswickDawg
Here is what makes Babe Ruth stand out above any other player, ever, in baseball.
He single handedly transformed the sport. Everything about the game was changed because of what Ruth was doing. He showed that offense and power was the future. To capitalize on what Ruth was doing, they changed rules, the ball, changed the size of ball parks, and the philosophy of how the game should be played, all to focus on Home Runs. Name another player - in any sport - that has had that type of an impact on the sport.
This is a really good point. George Mikan is the only other player I can think of to single-handedly transform a sport like that.
I'd still pick Bonds for the best overall player (I don't like the steroids, but pitchers and fielders were using them too), but I'll go with the Babe for best hitter.
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Im all for putting those guys who used PED's in the hall of fame bc I think its hypocrisy to not put them in but.....they absolutely should have an asterisk.
And bonds is one of those. Cant say you're the GOAT with an asterisk. Just the way it is
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I love these Baseball discussions. Good stuff.
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I will say this and it?s strictly a what could?ve been. If Mantle wouldn?t have had all the injuries and absolutely destroyed his body with booze and drugs he would?ve been the best ever. But it didn?t happen. Fun and a little bittersweet to speculate though,
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Originally Posted by
Commercecomet24
I will say this and it?s strictly a what could?ve been. If Mantle wouldn?t have had all the injuries and absolutely destroyed his body with booze and drugs he would?ve been the best ever. But it didn?t happen. Fun and a little bittersweet to speculate though,
But if he'd used steroids he could've still endured all those other things much longer and put up much more power stats
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Originally Posted by
shoeless joe
But if he'd used steroids he could've still endured all those other things much longer and put up much more power stats
True dat.
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Originally Posted by
BrunswickDawg
Here is what makes Babe Ruth stand out above any other player, ever, in baseball.
He single handedly transformed the sport. Everything about the game was changed because of what Ruth was doing. He showed that offense and power was the future. To capitalize on what Ruth was doing, they changed rules, the ball, changed the size of ball parks, and the philosophy of how the game should be played, all to focus on Home Runs. Name another player - in any sport - that has had that type of an impact on the sport.
Exactly. All of this. How many players or athletes from the 1920's are still talked about to this very day?
If people think that Cohen was bad about bunting they should have seen baseball in the early 1900's-1920 or so.
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