Mason decommits and commits to UPig

[TUSK]

Who has won the Egg Bowl three out of the past four years?

The talent disparity (between OM/MSU) over the last 3 years is pretty small... MSU does seem to do a little more with a little less, however...

(premature... still crunching...)

[ShotgunDawg]

The talent disparity (between OM/MSU) over the last 3 years is pretty small... MSU does seem to do a little more with a little less, however...

(premature... still crunching...)

MSU has been more talented on defense & in the running game & Ole Miss has been more explosive on offense.

Depending on the type of strengths needed to beat opponents, we both tended to have have success against different teams while accumulating similar records.

[Todd4State]

The talent disparity (between OM/MSU) over the last 3 years is pretty small... MSU does seem to do a little more with a little less, however...

(premature... still crunching...)

So, with the question being "would you really take their roster over ours..." the answer is probably negligible at best. And being that I am 100% sure WE weren't recruiting up to our potential because of Dan's laziness- we should have clearly been the better team had we been recruiting up to ours or at least closer to it. Even with Ole Miss cheating out the wazoo.

And that brings me to this point about MSU fans and MSU in general- we simply undervalue or let way too much slide in recruiting especially under the Dan Mullen era. What MSU allowed Dan to do in recruiting would not have been acceptable at very many if any SEC schools not named Vanderbilt. And that's 100% on MSU. And why people like Shotgun say things like "Ole Miss just simply wants it more in recruiting". Because when a school like MSU allows coaches like Hevesy, Sallach, and Gonzales to hang around and put forth about 50% effort and not demand changes...what other conclusion can people come to other than MSU simply just doesn't care? MSU should have demanded wholesale staff changes on the offensive side after the 2015 season. Instead we just didn't extend Dan. Instead up until the time Dan left a lot of our fans defended our staff ad nauseum- very visible MSU fans that have podcasts and things like that telling me on Twitter that Hevesy wasn't the problem and basically protecting what was going on all the while telling me and everyone else that if you aren't happy with 8 win seasons at MSU you will never be happy in your life. That attitude HAS to change.

But it's really not about switching rosters- it's what would happen if MSU didn't miss on so many targets in recruiting? Not necessarily even the ones that went to Ole Miss- but MSU has lost several in state recruits to other schools as well like LSU, Alabama, Auburn, Arkansas, and etc. Simply adding 1-2 of those would have probably put MSU over the top against Ole Miss and probably helped us get at least one Sugar Bowl appearance, perhaps a better season than 6-7 in 2016 and who knows about this year. When I read that a recruit from Mississippi chose LSU simply because "LSU just seemed to want me more"- that tells me EVERYTHING that was wrong with MSU recruiting right there.

The good news is it CAN change- and without wholesale illegal recruiting. MSU women's basketball has a FAR worse history than MSU football and they have managed to recruit at a high level. The other sports at MSU recruit well. Our fans give football a pass because for some reason it has been ingrained that we can't do better than a Liberty Bowl and an Egg Bowl win. And therefore our last coach was given a pass he shouldn't have gotten and the whole program and fanbase suffered.

Somehow our fans HAVE TO get to the point where:

1. They have to understand that there is some merit to the star system.
2. We CAN recruit better- and wanting to do so does not mean wholesale cheating like Ole Miss. And be OK with that.
3. Be OK holding coaches and the athletic department accountable.
4. Understand that recruiting CAN BE a useful tool for promoting program perception and be OK with a player picking us with a hat party, at the Army/UA AAG, and etc. and not be worried about "but what will happen if they don't pan out"?

[TUSK]

So, with the question being "would you really take their roster over ours..." the answer is probably negligible at best. And being that I am 100% sure WE weren't recruiting up to our potential because of Dan's laziness- we should have clearly been the better team had we been recruiting up to ours or at least closer to it. Even with Ole Miss cheating out the wazoo.

And that brings me to this point about MSU fans and MSU in general- we simply undervalue or let way too much slide in recruiting especially under the Dan Mullen era. What MSU allowed Dan to do in recruiting would not have been acceptable at very many if any SEC schools not named Vanderbilt. And that's 100% on MSU. And why people like Shotgun say things like "Ole Miss just simply wants it more in recruiting". Because when a school like MSU allows coaches like Hevesy, Sallach, and Gonzales to hang around and put forth about 50% effort and not demand changes...what other conclusion can people come to other than MSU simply just doesn't care? MSU should have demanded wholesale staff changes on the offensive side after the 2015 season. Instead we just didn't extend Dan. Instead up until the time Dan left a lot of our fans defended our staff ad nauseum- very visible MSU fans that have podcasts and things like that telling me on Twitter that Hevesy wasn't the problem and basically protecting what was going on all the while telling me and everyone else that if you aren't happy with 8 win seasons at MSU you will never be happy in your life. That attitude HAS to change.

But it's really not about switching rosters- it's what would happen if MSU didn't miss on so many targets in recruiting? Not necessarily even the ones that went to Ole Miss- but MSU has lost several in state recruits to other schools as well like LSU, Alabama, Auburn, Arkansas, and etc. Simply adding 1-2 of those would have probably put MSU over the top against Ole Miss and probably helped us get at least one Sugar Bowl appearance, perhaps a better season than 6-7 in 2016 and who knows about this year. When I read that a recruit from Mississippi chose LSU simply because "LSU just seemed to want me more"- that tells me EVERYTHING that was wrong with MSU recruiting right there.

The good news is it CAN change- and without wholesale illegal recruiting. MSU women's basketball has a FAR worse history than MSU football and they have managed to recruit at a high level. The other sports at MSU recruit well. Our fans give football a pass because for some reason it has been ingrained that we can't do better than a Liberty Bowl and an Egg Bowl win. And therefore our last coach was given a pass he shouldn't have gotten and the whole program and fanbase suffered.

Somehow our fans HAVE TO get to the point where:

1. They have to understand that there is some merit to the star system.
2. We CAN recruit better- and wanting to do so does not mean wholesale cheating like Ole Miss. And be OK with that.
3. Be OK holding coaches and the athletic department accountable.
4. Understand that recruiting CAN BE a useful tool for promoting program perception and be OK with a player picking us with a hat party, at the Army/UA AAG, and etc. and not be worried about "but what will happen if they don't pan out"?

Here ya go, buddy....

Averages (2015-2017): 247 Team Composite Ratings, SEC Reg. Season Wins/Yr, Overall Wins/Yr


TEAM RTG SEC OA
UA 93.05 7.33 13.67
LSU 90.28 5.33 8.67
UGA 89.82 5.33 10.33
AU 89.53 4.67 8.33
UF 87.59 5.33 7.67
UT 87.57 3.00 7.33
A&M 87.40 4.00 7.67
OM 87.04 3.67 7.00
SC 86.38 3.00 6.00
AR 85.99 3.00 6.33
KY 85.60 3.33 6.33
MSU 85.36 3.67 8.00
MO 84.78 2.33 5.33
VDY 83.94 2.00 5.00

I gotta big, giant spreadsheet thingy if y'all wanna sort, drill down some, etc, et al, yada, yada, yada...

[Todd4State]

Here ya go, buddy....

Averages (2015-2017): 247 Team Composite Ratings, SEC Reg. Season Wins/Yr, Overall Wins/Yr


TEAM RTG SEC OA
UA 93.05 7.33 13.67
LSU 90.28 5.33 8.67
UGA 89.82 5.33 10.33
AU 89.53 4.67 8.33
UF 87.59 5.33 7.67
UT 87.57 3.00 7.33
A&M 87.40 4.00 7.67
OM 87.04 3.67 7.00
SC 86.38 3.00 6.00
AR 85.99 3.00 6.33
KY 85.60 3.33 6.33
MSU 85.36 3.67 8.00
MO 84.78 2.33 5.33
VDY 83.94 2.00 5.00

I gotta big, giant spreadsheet thingy if y'all wanna sort, drill down some, etc, et al, yada, yada, yada...

Thank you! That pretty much proves my point. We were essentially recruiting at Kentucky level under Dan. I think the overall wins is a product of our scheduling more than anything.

[TUSK]

Thank you! That pretty much proves my point. We were essentially recruiting at Kentucky level under Dan. I think the overall wins is a product of our scheduling more than anything.

You're welcome.... if the numbers hadn't agreed with your synopsis, this thread coulda gone this way:

[TUSK]

Thank you! That pretty much proves my point. We were essentially recruiting at Kentucky level under Dan. I think the overall wins is a product of our scheduling more than anything.

Yeah, this was the biggest outlier I found... Suspect OOC scheduling was the cause, I think...