SEC Baseball Standings thru Week 2

[smootness]

I feel the same about the Friday bunt as I did when it happened- shitty call. And its a shitty call by any coach that does it- its just that very few would be that dumb.

This is where we're going to disagree. There are a crap ton of college coaches who would make that call. It isn't smart, but that doesn't stop a vast majority of them from making a lot of dumb bunt calls.

Cohen likes to bunt, and he does it too much. There are a ton of college coaches who like to bunt and do it too much. We have to simply decide whether or not we're ok with Cohen and the success he has had. Personally, assuming this season goes well and we either host or at least win a regional, I'm totally ok with him, bunting decisions and all. Because most of the coaches we would replace him with also believe in bunting.

I get that it is dumb and fans hate it. But it is also stupid that we keep talking about it. We should judge him on his success or failure, not on when he decides to bunt.

[maroonmania]

Absolutely not I wouldn't rather lose swinging away than win sac bunting. I can't believe you think that. That's absurd Cadaver. TAKE IT BACK lol. The problem here with this thinking is that COHEN NEVER WINS WITH SAC BUNTING. Not since we had 50 popups vs UCLA can I remember us winning a game because we sac bunted. However I can point to over a HUNDRED examples were we HURT our team's chances to score more runs because we did sac bunt. Cohen gotta gohen. That's the new line. Cohen gotta GOHEN.

Bunting to score ONE run in the late innings of a "pitcher's duel" type game is not just a Cohen issue. A high percentage of managers do that and have done it through the history of baseball so maybe there is just a bunch of stupid baseball coaches out there and only the ones who NEVER bunt are the intelligent ones. To try and pull statistics from ALL games in every inning about the percentages of a guy scoring from first with no outs versus a guy scoring from second with one out doesn't give the full picture. I mean that includes a ton of games where both teams are scoring at will through the entirety of the game and so that would seem to skew the numbers. I want to know what the numbers are when I'm scratching just to try to get ONE hit off a guy who is shutting me down pretty good in the final innings of the game. I think we ALL agree that bunting early in a game is bad and that bunting anytime in a game where I'm scoring a lot against the opposition OR I don't trust my pitcher to hold the down the opposition down is also a bad idea. I think we ALL agree that Cohen WAY overdoes the sacrifice bunt. But now it seems we've got a lot of folks taking it to extreme that you should NEVER sacrifice bunt in any situation ever. That, to me, is just the opposite extreme.

[Dawg61]

But it's the 6th inning not late in the game and it's not bunting to try to get a hit its bunting to purposely give away an out vs a no-no thrower. It's stupid. Every time it's stupid. Cohen gotta gohen.

[Dawg61]

If we drag bunted or quick bunted for hits I would be ok with it. That is aggressive baseball. Sac bunting is for losers.

[maroonmania]

But it's the 6th inning not late in the game and it's not bunting to try to get a hit its bunting to purposely give away an out vs a no-no thrower. It's stupid. Every time it's stupid. Cohen gotta gohen.

See, to me, the no-no makes it more justifiable than it would be without the no-no. If I'm batting against a guy that I'm hitting I definitely don't want to waste an out moving a guy into scoring position. But heck, the guy we got on in the 6th to lead off only got on because of a walk, not because he made solid contact. I can at least see Cohen saying hey, if I push this guy over to second I just need one of the next two guys to at least dribble one through the infield and I've got a run. If you don't move him over you are going to need at least 2 singles or some time of deep extra base hit to get him home off a guy you haven't even made good contact on yet. And I'm not saying I would have bunted him over but I can at least, in that situation, follow Cohen's reasoning. Most of the time I can't.

[CadaverDawg]

But it's the 6th inning not late in the game and it's not bunting to try to get a hit its bunting to purposely give away an out vs a no-no thrower. It's stupid. Every time it's stupid. Cohen gotta gohen.

Right, because stringing together 2 hits in order to score a run vs 1 hit scoring a run against a guy throwing a no hitter, makes perfect sense.*

I would have been ok with swinging away there, but to act like bunting was a "stupid" call, is just nonsense. That's my problem with yalls argument. Your unwillingness to admit that certain situations call for a bunt as an option, and Friday's was definitely one of those times where it's acceptable.

[Dawg61]

Right, because stringing together 2 hits in order to score a run vs 1 hit scoring a run against a guy throwing a no hitter, makes perfect sense.*

I would have been ok with swinging away there, but to act like bunting was a "stupid" call, is just nonsense. That's my problem with yalls argument. Your unwillingness to admit that certain situations call for a bunt as an option, and Friday's was definitely one of those times where it's acceptable.

I've watched a lot of baseball and so have you. I could agree with you about the two hits vs one thing if only I could remember just one time a manager sac-bunting during a no-hitter. Just once. That's all I'm asking for. One instance of proof that another manager made that same call. I can't find it. In the history of baseball I can not find one other example. Can you? Find me one and I'll stfu on the Friday bunt.

[Dawg62]

Right, because stringing together 2 hits in order to score a run vs 1 hit scoring a run against a guy throwing a no hitter, makes perfect sense.*

I would have been ok with swinging away there, but to act like bunting was a "stupid" call, is just nonsense. That's my problem with yalls argument. Your unwillingness to admit that certain situations call for a bunt as an option, and Friday's was definitely one of those times where it's acceptable.

Bunting hurts struggling teams more.. Documented fact. You're facing a stud and willingly giving away an out? Retarded.

1. Bunts aren't automatically successful.
2. Many things can move the runner to 2nd, many do not cost an automatic out.
3. One hit to score vs 2 hits is retarded. Again, many ways runners move without a hit or a bunt. Guy was wild, how about a walk? What if Lon hits a double! Or a HR!!

[Coach34]

Bunting hurts struggling teams more.. Documented fact. You're facing a stud and willingly giving away an out? Retarded.

1. Bunts aren't automatically successful.
2. Many things can move the runner to 2nd, many do not cost an automatic out.
3. One hit to score vs 2 hits is retarded. Again, many ways runners move without a hit or a bunt. Guy was wild, how about a walk? What if Lon hits a double! Or a HR!!

perfect example from the weekend:

We ask Lon to bunt with Lowe on 2nd- Lon fails to get bunt down on 1st two strikes- gets in a hole- K's. Collins up- passed ball gets Lowe to 3rd. Collins drives him in. We tried to bunt and it was absolutely no help- but we scored anyway. All trying to bunt did was give Georgia an out.

[CadaverDawg]

Bunting hurts struggling teams more.. Documented fact. You're facing a stud and willingly giving away an out? Retarded.

1. Bunts aren't automatically successful.
2. Many things can move the runner to 2nd, many do not cost an automatic out.
3. One hit to score vs 2 hits is retarded. Again, many ways runners move without a hit or a bunt. Guy was wild, how about a walk? What if Lon hits a double! Or a HR!!

I can play that game too...

What IF he strikes out
What IF he pops up
What IF he hits into a double play

One difference, we were being no hit, so mine were more likely based on that game & situation. Boyd's World ain't telling you that you have already been through the lineup twice and haven't even sniffed a base hit yet. Some situations cause for you to actually be a coach and make gut decisions....not read a how-to on coaching baseball.

You wanna argue Saturday's bunts, & millions of other Cohen bunt calls, I'm right there with you. But Friday night's bunt was totally fine, and nothing you can say will change that. Kruger sac bunted him over, gave Collins & Hump a chance to tie it, but Lowe screwed up. Otherwise it might have been the perfect call to tie the game up on1 hit. That's fact.

[CadaverDawg]

perfect example from the weekend:

We ask Lon to bunt with Lowe on 2nd- Lon fails to get bunt down on 1st two strikes- gets in a hole- K's. Collins up- passed ball gets Lowe to 3rd. Collins drives him in. We tried to bunt and it was absolutely no help- but we scored anyway. All trying to bunt did was give Georgia an out.

Yep, that was idiotic. Just like most of Cohen's bunt calls. But Friday's wasn't one of the idiotic ones. I would've been fine with letting Kruger hit Friday night, but there was nothing wrong with bunting there. Saturday was one of the worst pieces of coaching I've ever witnessed at the D1 level.

You don't bunt a good hitter with a man already in scoring position. Such a stupid call that was.

[CadaverDawg]

Bunting to score ONE run in the late innings of a "pitcher's duel" type game is not just a Cohen issue. A high percentage of managers do that and have done it through the history of baseball so maybe there is just a bunch of stupid baseball coaches out there and only the ones who NEVER bunt are the intelligent ones. To try and pull statistics from ALL games in every inning about the percentages of a guy scoring from first with no outs versus a guy scoring from second with one out doesn't give the full picture. I mean that includes a ton of games where both teams are scoring at will through the entirety of the game and so that would seem to skew the numbers. I want to know what the numbers are when I'm scratching just to try to get ONE hit off a guy who is shutting me down pretty good in the final innings of the game. I think we ALL agree that bunting early in a game is bad and that bunting anytime in a game where I'm scoring a lot against the opposition OR I don't trust my pitcher to hold the down the opposition down is also a bad idea. I think we ALL agree that Cohen WAY overdoes the sacrifice bunt. But now it seems we've got a lot of folks taking it to extreme that you should NEVER sacrifice bunt in any situation ever. That, to me, is just the opposite extreme.

Spot on.

[RocketCityDawg]

I've watched a lot of baseball and so have you. I could agree with you about the two hits vs one thing if only I could remember just one time a manager sac-bunting during a no-hitter. Just once. That's all I'm asking for. One instance of proof that another manager made that same call. I can't find it. In the history of baseball I can not find one other example. Can you? Find me one and I'll stfu on the Friday bunt.

Here you go. 2 minutes with Google returned this. Now STFU Dawg61

10 Harvey Haddix
Pittsburgh Pirates (NL)
Tuesday, May 26, 1959
Milwaukee Braves 1, Pittsburgh Pirates 0 (13 innings)
Milwaukee County Stadium (Milwaukee)
Haddix threw a perfect game through 12, retiring the first 36 batters he faced. He lost the perfect game in the top of the 13th when Pirates third-baseman Don Hoak committed an error letting Felix Mantilla reach first. After a sacrifice bunt by Eddie Mathews and an intentional walk to Hank Aaron, Haddix lost the no hitter (and the game) on a Joe Adcock walkoff homer.

[Dawg61]

Here you go. 2 minutes with Google returned this. Now STFU Dawg61

10 Harvey Haddix
Pittsburgh Pirates (NL)
Tuesday, May 26, 1959
Milwaukee Braves 1, Pittsburgh Pirates 0 (13 innings)
Milwaukee County Stadium (Milwaukee)
Haddix threw a perfect game through 12, retiring the first 36 batters he faced. He lost the perfect game in the top of the 13th when Pirates third-baseman Don Hoak committed an error letting Felix Mantilla reach first. After a sacrifice bunt by Eddie Mathews and an intentional walk to Hank Aaron, Haddix lost the no hitter (and the game) on a Joe Adcock walkoff homer.

That's in 1959 and in the 13th inning and the guy hit a homerun. Try again. That doesn't qualify.

[RocketCityDawg]

That's in 1959 and in the 13th inning and the guy hit a homerun. Try again. That doesn't qualify.

How did I know you wouldn't follow up on your promise? Why doesn't it qualify?

"In the history of baseball I can not find one other example. Can you? Find me one and I'll stfu on the Friday bunt."

STFU!!!

[smootness]

That's in 1959 and in the 13th inning and the guy hit a homerun. Try again. That doesn't qualify.

You asked for one instance in the history of baseball in which a manager called for a sac bunt during a no-hitter. So yes, that would qualify.

That's a pretty bizarre request to begin with. How are people supposed to look through every game ever played and see if a sac bunt was called for before the team's first hit? Because that's what you're asking for. RocketCity actually did come up with one such instance, and you dismiss it?

If you didn't mean one instance in the history of baseball, you should have said so. That's on you.

[Dawg61]

How did I know you wouldn't follow up on your promise? Why doesn't it qualify?

"In the history of baseball I can not find one other example. Can you? Find me one and I'll stfu on the Friday bunt."

STFU!!!

Haha cause it's 56 years ago and in the 13th inning!! I admire your effort though. Will not STFU.

[I seen it dawg]

I'll take some credit here in raising awareness over the last 5 years

Look curveball and adjust to fastball

[I seen it dawg]

There's not a situation where Kruger should be bunting. He absolutely sucks at it. Therefore he should never bunt. If it's a situation where a bunt just has to be done then take his ass out and put someone in that can bunt. It's absolutely useless asking Kruger to bunt. It's made worse that he is a top of the order hitter. Totally ****ing stupid.

[Dawg62]

Look curveball and adjust to fastball

Liar