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Peer Pressure
I don't know how many posters on here are parents but I am. How can you try to teach your children about not responding to peer pressure while at the same time wanting our program to do what the "big boys" are doing? We are literal watching the demise of OM's football program but there are still people on here that insist that we need to "play the game".
Mullen is not perfect. No coach is. But we have been able to rise to the highest level ever in the history of our program and we have done it relatively clean and without "mistakes". Why would you jeopardize that for one or two players that may or may not even pan out? We cannot give in to peer pressure especially now that OM will be looking for anything they can do to drag us down with them.
Death penalty or bust!!!***
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Why we can do what UM does:
1. UM got caught. The punishment they receive will determine to what degree this affect an AD's decision to cheat or not. I think most AD's will think twice about cheating once UM is dealt with. (I.e. You can get caught cheating, but is the punishment mild so that it is worth cheating anyway, or is the punishment severe enough to make cheating not worth the risk)
2. The "Big boys" can get away with a bit more because they are the "big boys". (I.e. They have power and influence and nobody blinks an eye when they get loads of five stars because they are expected to get loads of five stars anyway.
3. We don't have the local media in our pockets; just the opposite
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Originally Posted by
Reason2succeed
We are literal watching the demise of OM's football program but there are still people on here that insist that we need to "play the game".
You have 1,592 posts and have almost 2.5 years on this board. Have you not yet identified the idiots?
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Originally Posted by
Taog Redloh
You have 1,592 posts and have almost 2.5 years on this board. Have you not yet identified the idiots?
What can I say? I'm just holding out hope...
Death penalty or bust!!!***
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We DID do what they are doing, and--in fact--we got way more return on investment for it when we were moments away from a conference title. And yes, it set out program back a decade like it probably will theirs at some point. Thanks for the memories, but I'm ok with where we are at the moment if that is the alternative.
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Originally Posted by
Pollodawg
We DID do what they are doing, and--in fact--we got way more return on investment for it when we were moments away from a conference title. And yes, it set out program back a decade like it probably will theirs at some point. Thanks for the memories, but I'm ok with where we are at the moment if that is the alternative.
Yeah, we did it and it has taken us 10 years to recover. From 2001 to 2009 was almost pure misery because of a few players and fewer years of relevance. I know we haven't been to Atlanta again but Mullen has already had more success than Sherrill. Sherrill gave us one year over 8 wins. We have people who are complaining because 8 wins are now expected. Mullen has been north of eight wins 3 times out of 7 seasons. And Mullen has done this without any drops below 7-5 in the middle.
So, almost half the time we will be 9 wins or better while never dropping below 7-5 and people are dissatisfied and want to risk the next 10 years for the possibility of an extra win or so. It's ridiculous.
Last edited by Reason2succeed; 08-23-2016 at 10:11 PM.
Death penalty or bust!!!***
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Senior Member
Originally Posted by
Reason2succeed
....it has taken us 10 years to recover from the incompetency of Larry Templeton.
FIFY
The Plantation has never won an SEC regular season Championship in ANY men's sport with an integrated team. That defines irrelevance.
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Senior Member
Originally Posted by
M.Fillmore
FIFY
Food for thought. Experienced Atlanta with State. Peerless just to much and our QB went down late. Next year at Bammer the holding call that did not happen-there as well. Then all hell breaks loose. The Croom years with back-to-back Bammer wins-was there. Difference is Bammer got talent and State gets portions of that. Hell, Cam Newton damn near was a melt down and he went to Auby. Finbaum was the one that tried to tourch us to protect Auby during the magic season. Bottom line, we are not the elite program we would like to be and the press ain't gonna let it happen. Short answer is stay on the straight and narrow. One misstep=media frenzy with no pass.
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Originally Posted by
Reason2succeed
Yeah, we did it and it has taken us 10 years to recover. From 2001 to 2009 was almost pure misery because of a few players and fewer years of relevance. I know we haven't been to Atlanta again but Mullen has already had more success than Sherrill. Sherrill gave us one year over 8 wins. We have people who are complaining because 8 wins are now expected. Mullen has been north of eight wins 3 times out of 7 seasons. And Mullen has done this without any drops below 7-5 in the middle.
So, almost half the time we will be 9 wins or better while never dropping below 7-5 and people are dissatisfied and want to risk the next 10 years for the possibility of an extra win or so. It's ridiculous.
Since I was "very" involved in the Sherrill years, let me say that we were never close to doing the things that UNM has been doing. We got slammed more because of hiring Sherrill than what we were doing. Note that I did not say we were slammed because of the things we got caught for. The NCAA, with the assistance of private detectives and the official NCAA investigators getting "special assistance" from ZenaReb, among others, never found anything significant. Speaking with some authority, the things that did happen were nothing compared to the current documented things for UNM.
Now the Tyler era is a different story. We were guilty as could be, but they could not find anything but one discount that was arguably not a violation and they nailed us for what they believed we were doing, rightly in that case.
However, even that paled in comparison with what the school up north has been doing over the last few years. In their case, when they say "mistakes were made," what they mean is that they made mistakes in getting caught for some of the more minor things they have been doing. To equate it to the Tyler era, we were caught for arguably doing something minor and got harshly punished for what we were really doing. If the NCAA were to comparably punish them for the combination of what they have been caught doing and what they have been really doing, they would have to reapply for NCAA membership in ten years.
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If we cheated to the extent of competing for a national championship, I would take the punishment to win one
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Originally Posted by
Reason2succeed
Yeah, we did it and it has taken us 10 years to recover. From 2001 to 2009 was almost pure misery because of a few players and fewer years of relevance. I know we haven't been to Atlanta again but Mullen has already had more success than Sherrill. Sherrill gave us one year over 8 wins. We have people who are complaining because 8 wins are now expected. Mullen has been north of eight wins 3 times out of 7 seasons. And Mullen has done this without any drops below 7-5 in the middle.
So, almost half the time we will be 9 wins or better while never dropping below 7-5 and people are dissatisfied and want to risk the next 10 years for the possibility of an extra win or so. It's ridiculous.
Huge difference between Dan and Jackie is Jackie pulled some huge upsets and I would say has the most “memorable” wins of any MSU coach. He also has some of the most embarrassing losses as well- but the huge wins outweigh those by a good bit.
Dan is in year eight. In year eight Jackie won the SEC West, he had beaten Florida on National TV, Peyton Manning, Texas twice, Alabama in 1996, 97, and 98, a good Auburn team on the road in 1997, a good Arkansas team to clinch the West, and was 5-3 against Mississippi as he would say including the Egg Bowl in Oxford to win the SEC West. Of course, Jackie’s best season was the next year as well. Dan doesn’t have the benefit of “we’ve never won like this before” as well so I would say that the standards for Dan are higher than they were for Jackie. Meaning having your best friend and albatross of an o-line coach on the staff no matter what isn’t going to cut it anymore.
Granted Dan only has seven years of work at this point in time, but to compare he is 4-3 against Ole Miss so that’s similar even though he is 1-3 the last four years, and his biggest wins are Florida 2010, Michigan 2010, LSU 2014, Texas A&M 2014, and Auburn 2014, and maybe Arkansas 2015 on the road and of course he doesn’t have any bad losses. So Dan is close, but not quite there yet. And again that is with essentially one less year.
But as far as Ole Miss and their cheating and us I have always said that we should wait and see what happens to them. If they get hammered, we need to keep doing what we are doing and improve our recruiting efforts legally to overtake them once and for all. That’s mainly tweaking some things like firing Hevesy and Sallach for the most part. Not a major overhaul. If Ole Miss gets away with cheating we should proceed accordingly and start cheating like them ourselves. However, if that were to happen EVERY SEC team would do the same. And probably power five team as well. It would just be insane and the NCAA would completely lose all control at that point. Which is why I think Ole Miss gets hammered. But it would be totally irresponsible for us to go ahead and cheat our asses off like Ole Miss before their sanctions get handed down because if we did that I guarantee you that we would get hammered ourselves.
And as I said before, we need to get ready because once reality sets in at Ole Miss they are going to get upset and blame us and come after us like they did in the 1990’s even though we have nothing to do with their current investigation. Our leadership just needs to be prepared to stand up to Ole Miss this time.
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Member
Amen and Amen Todd!
Excellent points. Agree 100%.
Originally Posted by
Todd4State
Huge difference between Dan and Jackie is Jackie pulled some huge upsets and I would say has the most ?memorable? wins of any MSU coach. He also has some of the most embarrassing losses as well- but the huge wins outweigh those by a good bit.
Dan is in year eight. In year eight Jackie won the SEC West, he had beaten Florida on National TV, Peyton Manning, Texas twice, Alabama in 1996, 97, and 98, a good Auburn team on the road in 1997, a good Arkansas team to clinch the West, and was 5-3 against Mississippi as he would say including the Egg Bowl in Oxford to win the SEC West. Of course, Jackie?s best season was the next year as well. Dan doesn?t have the benefit of ?we?ve never won like this before? as well so I would say that the standards for Dan are higher than they were for Jackie. Meaning having your best friend and albatross of an o-line coach on the staff no matter what isn?t going to cut it anymore.
Granted Dan only has seven years of work at this point in time, but to compare he is 4-3 against Ole Miss so that?s similar even though he is 1-3 the last four years, and his biggest wins are Florida 2010, Michigan 2010, LSU 2014, Texas A&M 2014, and Auburn 2014, and maybe Arkansas 2015 on the road and of course he doesn?t have any bad losses. So Dan is close, but not quite there yet. And again that is with essentially one less year.
But as far as Ole Miss and their cheating and us I have always said that we should wait and see what happens to them. If they get hammered, we need to keep doing what we are doing and improve our recruiting efforts legally to overtake them once and for all. That?s mainly tweaking some things like firing Hevesy and Sallach for the most part. Not a major overhaul. If Ole Miss gets away with cheating we should proceed accordingly and start cheating like them ourselves. However, if that were to happen EVERY SEC team would do the same. And probably power five team as well. It would just be insane and the NCAA would completely lose all control at that point. Which is why I think Ole Miss gets hammered. But it would be totally irresponsible for us to go ahead and cheat our asses off like Ole Miss before their sanctions get handed down because if we did that I guarantee you that we would get hammered ourselves.
And as I said before, we need to get ready because once reality sets in at Ole Miss they are going to get upset and blame us and come after us like they did in the 1990?s even though we have nothing to do with their current investigation. Our leadership just needs to be prepared to stand up to Ole Miss this time.
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Senior Member
Last edited by spbdawg; 11-27-2018 at 10:46 AM.
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Originally Posted by
tireddawg
If we cheated to the extent of competing for a national championship, I would take the punishment to win one
This is what I'm talking about. First, learn from OM. You can't guarantee a championship even if you are cheating. All OM got out of it were a few wins over us and Bama which will all be vacated shortly and a Sugarbowl trophy that will soon be returned.
Look at Georgia, Auburn, and Florida. They almost routinely lose containment of their locker rooms. "If you pay a player he owns you".
We need to be patient and build the program until we can "expand" our outreach and it is not questioned because we have the history to back it up. Mullen is doing that but we can't be too hasty.
Death penalty or bust!!!***
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Originally Posted by
Todd4State
Huge difference between Dan and Jackie is Jackie pulled some huge upsets and I would say has the most “memorable” wins of any MSU coach. He also has some of the most embarrassing losses as well- but the huge wins outweigh those by a good bit.
Dan is in year eight. In year eight Jackie won the SEC West, he had beaten Florida on National TV, Peyton Manning, Texas twice, Alabama in 1996, 97, and 98, a good Auburn team on the road in 1997, a good Arkansas team to clinch the West, and was 5-3 against Mississippi as he would say including the Egg Bowl in Oxford to win the SEC West. Of course, Jackie’s best season was the next year as well. Dan doesn’t have the benefit of “we’ve never won like this before” as well so I would say that the standards for Dan are higher than they were for Jackie. Meaning having your best friend and albatross of an o-line coach on the staff no matter what isn’t going to cut it anymore.
Granted Dan only has seven years of work at this point in time, but to compare he is 4-3 against Ole Miss so that’s similar even though he is 1-3 the last four years, and his biggest wins are Florida 2010, Michigan 2010, LSU 2014, Texas A&M 2014, and Auburn 2014, and maybe Arkansas 2015 on the road and of course he doesn’t have any bad losses. So Dan is close, but not quite there yet. And again that is with essentially one less year.
But as far as Ole Miss and their cheating and us I have always said that we should wait and see what happens to them. If they get hammered, we need to keep doing what we are doing and improve our recruiting efforts legally to overtake them once and for all. That’s mainly tweaking some things like firing Hevesy and Sallach for the most part. Not a major overhaul. If Ole Miss gets away with cheating we should proceed accordingly and start cheating like them ourselves. However, if that were to happen EVERY SEC team would do the same. And probably power five team as well. It would just be insane and the NCAA would completely lose all control at that point. Which is why I think Ole Miss gets hammered. But it would be totally irresponsible for us to go ahead and cheat our asses off like Ole Miss before their sanctions get handed down because if we did that I guarantee you that we would get hammered ourselves.
And as I said before, we need to get ready because once reality sets in at Ole Miss they are going to get upset and blame us and come after us like they did in the 1990’s even though we have nothing to do with their current investigation. Our leadership just needs to be prepared to stand up to Ole Miss this time.
We better be keeping our nose clean beginning yesterday. Mississippi is already pissed and even though they no there are others responsible for their current problems, MSU is the only one they can truly reach out and hurt. I assure you they are already planning their retribution against us. So we need to give Bracky a raise and mind our P's & Q's.
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Originally Posted by
Todd4State
Huge difference between Dan and Jackie is Jackie pulled some huge upsets and I would say has the most “memorable” wins of any MSU coach. He also has some of the most embarrassing losses as well- but the huge wins outweigh those by a good bit.
Dan is in year eight. In year eight Jackie won the SEC West, he had beaten Florida on National TV, Peyton Manning, Texas twice, Alabama in 1996, 97, and 98, a good Auburn team on the road in 1997, a good Arkansas team to clinch the West, and was 5-3 against Mississippi as he would say including the Egg Bowl in Oxford to win the SEC West. Of course, Jackie’s best season was the next year as well. Dan doesn’t have the benefit of “we’ve never won like this before” as well so I would say that the standards for Dan are higher than they were for Jackie. Meaning having your best friend and albatross of an o-line coach on the staff no matter what isn’t going to cut it anymore.
Granted Dan only has seven years of work at this point in time, but to compare he is 4-3 against Ole Miss so that’s similar even though he is 1-3 the last four years, and his biggest wins are Florida 2010, Michigan 2010, LSU 2014, Texas A&M 2014, and Auburn 2014, and maybe Arkansas 2015 on the road and of course he doesn’t have any bad losses. So Dan is close, but not quite there yet. And again that is with essentially one less year.
But as far as Ole Miss and their cheating and us I have always said that we should wait and see what happens to them. If they get hammered, we need to keep doing what we are doing and improve our recruiting efforts legally to overtake them once and for all. That’s mainly tweaking some things like firing Hevesy and Sallach for the most part. Not a major overhaul. If Ole Miss gets away with cheating we should proceed accordingly and start cheating like them ourselves. However, if that were to happen EVERY SEC team would do the same. And probably power five team as well. It would just be insane and the NCAA would completely lose all control at that point. Which is why I think Ole Miss gets hammered. But it would be totally irresponsible for us to go ahead and cheat our asses off like Ole Miss before their sanctions get handed down because if we did that I guarantee you that we would get hammered ourselves.
And as I said before, we need to get ready because once reality sets in at Ole Miss they are going to get upset and blame us and come after us like they did in the 1990’s even though we have nothing to do with their current investigation. Our leadership just needs to be prepared to stand up to Ole Miss this time.
Yes, Jackie had some memorable wins and had opportunities for more, but "Bad Losses" does not accurately depict the entirety of the Jackie era. We had TERRIBLE seasons under Jackie that people seem to ignore because he took us to Atlanta. I sat through 3-6-2 ('93), 3-8 ('95), and 5-6 ('96). It put Jackie on the hot seat - and if it wasn't for that miracle against Bama in '96 we would have seen a new coach. But, we stuck with Jackie because we were looking at the long game. While Dan has had some disappointing seasons, I have never seen anywhere near the crap I saw those 3 seasons in the mid-90's.
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Tell your children the truth. The more power you have, the more you can get away with. This is true in almost any facet of life in this world.
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I think we need to "play the game" as everybody else is doing. There are unwritten rules to recruiting in college football, and if you follow those rules you can play the game effectively and get by with stuff. However, UM got way too desperate, bit off more than they can chew and it pissed a lot of people off. That's where they went wrong.
Eta: like Todd said, at this point we need to see what happens with UM. If they skate then the gloves should definitely come off.
Last edited by BossDawg; 08-24-2016 at 09:30 AM.
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Originally Posted by
msbulldog
We better be keeping our nose clean beginning yesterday. Mississippi is already pissed and even though they no there are others responsible for their current problems, MSU is the only one they can truly reach out and hurt. I assure you they are already planning their retribution against us. So we need to give Bracky a raise and mind our P's & Q's.
Planning? hahaha! I can guarantee you the bearsharks have put a few PI's kids through college recently.
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Exactly
Originally Posted by
MadDawg
Planning? hahaha! I can guarantee you the bearsharks have put a few PI's kids through college recently.
Guarantee you that most of them are less focused on correcting their program and more focused on taking us down. True sign of losers.
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