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04-28-2017, 11:22 AM
#121
Originally Posted by
Technetium
So the short of it is this: the person with the most to lose if he's wrong about the validity of the rumor is not putting much stock into it. Some with less to use (message board posters) believe it to be true and claim sources. I'd say that puts this rumor squarely in the doubtful category, along with most rumors. Still, it's fun to hope it's true and dream of watching the NCAA add even more fuel to that dumpster fire...
I'm skeptical of the rumors surrounding one recruit, but not the other. The issue isn't whether it's been reported to the NCAA (it has), it's whether the NCAA is going to use it to 1) corroborate the other other allegations without intent to punish OM for the 2017 class allegation - or - 2) open up yet another investigation looking into the 2017 class.
If I were conducting the investigation, I'd let OM walk into the COI hearing and challenge the LOI and failure to monitor charges, pretend they have everything under control, and then drop the bombshell that they've been caught doing the same damn thing again in 2017. Use that testimony and evidence to corroborate stories from the 2016 class (and earlier) to show a pattern of neglect and prove that they are incapable of controlling the process. The NCAA has enough allegations from previous classes to hammer them into the Stone Age. They don't need any more. But they have evidence of additional cheating in the 2017 class, so I have a feeling they're going to use it one way or the other. Regardless of how it's used though, OM is royally screwed.
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04-28-2017, 11:42 AM
#122
Originally Posted by
Political Hack
I'm skeptical of the rumors surrounding one recruit, but not the other. The issue isn't whether it's been reported to the NCAA (it has), it's whether the NCAA is going to use it to 1) corroborate the other other allegations without intent to punish OM for the 2017 class allegation - or - 2) open up yet another investigation looking into the 2017 class.
If I were conducting the investigation, I'd let OM walk into the COI hearing and challenge the LOI and failure to monitor charges, pretend they have everything under control, and then drop the bombshell that they've been caught doing the same damn thing again in 2017. Use that testimony and evidence to corroborate stories from the 2016 class (and earlier) to show a pattern of neglect and prove that they are incapable of controlling the process. The NCAA has enough allegations from previous classes to hammer them into the Stone Age. They don't need any more. But they have evidence of additional cheating in the 2017 class, so I have a feeling they're going to use it one way or the other. Regardless of how it's used though, OM is royally screwed.
I may be wrong, but I'm pretty sure that the NCAA can't do that. They have to give you what you're charged with before the COI hearing. They can't just have a "gotcha" moment on the day of the hearing I don't believe.
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04-28-2017, 11:52 AM
#123
Originally Posted by
Jarius
I may be wrong, but I'm pretty sure that the NCAA can't do that. They have to give you what you're charged with before the COI hearing. They can't just have a "gotcha" moment on the day of the hearing I don't believe.
If I'm not mistaken, Hack isn't saying charge them with something new. I believe he means let them argue that they've "changed" and then the COIcould basically say "really? Because the same things were going on in '17" . It wouldn't necessarily be a new charge or allegation, just more evidence that the cheatfest hasn't stopped or even slowed
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04-28-2017, 11:54 AM
#124
It is just hard for me to believe that anyone with the wherewithal to be giving anything to recruits would be just jack shit stupid enough to keep doing it in light of what is gone on before and on the verge of getting major penalties.
Hope I'm wrong.
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04-28-2017, 12:02 PM
#125
Senior Member
Originally Posted by
chainedup_Dawg
If I'm not mistaken, Hack isn't saying charge them with something new. I believe he means let them argue that they've "changed" and then the COIcould basically say "really? Because the same things were going on in '17" . It wouldn't necessarily be a new charge or allegation, just more evidence that the cheatfest hasn't stopped or even slowed
But isn't that the definition of a new allegation, saying that TSUN was doing it on a separate occasion not listed in the NOA? The COI/NCAA would be alleging that TSUN was continuing to cheat. I agree with Jarius, I don't think they can use this as a "gotcha" moment. I think they would have to formally included it in a NOA, or otherwise not utilize the information (at least not officially... ::wink:
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04-28-2017, 12:04 PM
#126
Originally Posted by
chainedup_Dawg
If I'm not mistaken, Hack isn't saying charge them with something new. I believe he means let them argue that they've "changed" and then the COIcould basically say "really? Because the same things were going on in '17" . It wouldn't necessarily be a new charge or allegation, just more evidence that the cheatfest hasn't stopped or even slowed
I believe you have to give them the right to investigate any issues like that. It should be another separate noa involving the 2017 class. I have no clue what the matrix says about double probation issues.
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04-28-2017, 12:19 PM
#127
Originally Posted by
shannondawg
It is just hard for me to believe that anyone with the wherewithal to be giving anything to recruits would be just jack shit stupid enough to keep doing it in light of what is gone on before and on the verge of getting major penalties.
Hope I'm wrong.
Agree, Shannon. If TCUN did this, its beyond crazy, stupid and absurd!
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04-28-2017, 12:21 PM
#128
Are we sure the investigation has officially ended? We still haven't seen NOA2/amendedNOA1, right? From what I understand there is a strong likelihood the investigation continued after the second letter of allegations was delivered. Basically, my understanding is that TCUN was expecting more allegations to be delivered to them in some form: another amendedNOA1 or NOA3.
You're blind if you can't see improvement.....Freshmens......Strain.....Kick rocks and pound sand......Drag my Yankee ass outta here!......
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04-28-2017, 12:50 PM
#129
Originally Posted by
chainedup_Dawg
If I'm not mistaken, Hack isn't saying charge them with something new. I believe he means let them argue that they've "changed" and then the COIcould basically say "really? Because the same things were going on in '17" . It wouldn't necessarily be a new charge or allegation, just more evidence that the cheatfest hasn't stopped or even slowed
That's exactly right. There are dozens and dozens of interviews that took place that OM was not allowed to attend. They know the allegations. They do not have transcripts from those meetings and may not be fully aware of everyone that's spoken to the NCAA. This isn't a court of law. The NCAA decides what's permissible and whats not. The school only gets the allegations in the NOA and gets to attend the NCAA interviews of Ole Miss players, coaches, and boosters. Ole Miss should not have representation in the room when they're interviewing kids that attend other schools, therefore there's no way they could know everything.
Last edited by Political Hack; 04-28-2017 at 01:05 PM.
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04-28-2017, 01:14 PM
#130
Originally Posted by
Political Hack
That's exactly right. There are dozens and dozens of interviews that took place that OM was not allowed to attend. They know the allegations. They do not have transcripts from those meetings and may not be fully aware of everyone that's spoken to the NCAA. This isn't a court of law. The NCAA decides what's permissible and whats not. The school only gets the allegations in the NOA and gets to attend the NCAA interviews of Ole Miss players, coaches, and boosters. Ole Miss should not have representation in the room when they're interviewing kids that attend other schools, therefore there's no way they could know everything.
The simple response to that if you're OM is "if you have evidence of these violations, why aren't they in the NOA that you gave us?" If the NCAA has more violations and doesn't include them in the NOA, then I don't think they will be able to use those in the COI hearings. It's not a court of Law, but I assume they at least have their own set of rules to go by and anything that isn't in the NOA won't be used in the hearing.
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04-28-2017, 01:26 PM
#131
Originally Posted by
Jarius
The simple response to that if you're OM is "if you have evidence of these violations, why aren't they in the NOA that you gave us?" If the NCAA has more violations and doesn't include them in the NOA, then I don't think they will be able to use those in the COI hearings. It's not a court of Law, but I assume they at least have their own set of rules to go by and anything that isn't in the NOA won't be used in the hearing.
Head of NCAA investigations has stated they only use things that are slam dunk solid. No more Miami's.
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04-28-2017, 01:34 PM
#132
Originally Posted by
Dawgowar
Head of NCAA investigations has stated they only use things that are slam dunk solid. No more Miami's.
Wasn't the Miami debacle due to the NCAA dabbling around in a separate crime case where they had no business going?
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04-28-2017, 01:48 PM
#133
Originally Posted by
Bully13
Wasn't the Miami debacle due to the NCAA dabbling around in a separate crime case where they had no business going?
They did not follow any established procedures or did so haphazardly.
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04-28-2017, 01:53 PM
#134
Originally Posted by
WSOPdawg
Agree, Shannon. If TCUN did this, its beyond crazy, stupid and absurd!
Whether they did it or not isn't in question, they did. Whether they've been caught on it is the question at hand!
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04-28-2017, 02:16 PM
#135
Originally Posted by
shannondawg
It is just hard for me to believe that anyone with the wherewithal to be giving anything to recruits would be just jack shit stupid enough to keep doing it in light of what is gone on before and on the verge of getting major penalties.
Hope I'm wrong.
But you have to remember that this whole investigation isn't that serious and is already under control according to OM sources.***
Plus we all know that on a level playing field DD would have chose State because we had zero baggage or risk compared to OM. Now he's probably willing to talk and after hearing that Leo got immunity why wouldn't he? He gets a redo.
Death penalty or bust!!!***
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04-28-2017, 03:25 PM
#136
Originally Posted by
Jarius
The simple response to that if you're OM is "if you have evidence of these violations, why aren't they in the NOA that you gave us?" If the NCAA has more violations and doesn't include them in the NOA, then I don't think they will be able to use those in the COI hearings. It's not a court of Law, but I assume they at least have their own set of rules to go by and anything that isn't in the NOA won't be used in the hearing.
Things that are not in the NOA are discussed during the hearing. Ole Miss can bring in mitigating circumstances to the hearing to defend against what's in the NOA. The NCAA can provide further context and evidence of wrong doing that's not in the NOA, but OM can only be "charged" with what's in the NOA. I think some people may be conflating those two. New charges/allegations won't pop up on the COI, but they can discuss further evidence that corroborates the allegations in the NOA.
Last edited by Political Hack; 04-28-2017 at 03:28 PM.
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04-28-2017, 03:50 PM
#137
Presumably, the hearing, if it ever occurs, will be taped or recorded in some manner. Is there any chance such a recording will be made public? I highly doubt it, but one never knows.
And refresh my memory: Who is DD?
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04-28-2017, 03:52 PM
#138
Originally Posted by
RocketDawg
Presumably, the hearing, if it ever occurs, will be taped or recorded in some manner. Is there any chance such a recording will be made public? I highly doubt it, but one never knows.
And refresh my memory: Who is DD?
Bowie, I think...
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04-28-2017, 04:28 PM
#139
Originally Posted by
Political Hack
Things that are not in the NOA are discussed during the hearing. Ole Miss can bring in mitigating circumstances to the hearing to defend against what's in the NOA. The NCAA can provide further context and evidence of wrong doing that's not in the NOA, but OM can only be "charged" with what's in the NOA. I think some people may be conflating those two. New charges/allegations won't pop up on the COI, but they can discuss further evidence that corroborates the allegations in the NOA.
Of course. There will certainly be evidence to support the allegations. From my understanding, this Rumor is about brand new allegations that have nothing to do with what's in the NOA though which would be different. I could be wrong on that though since this rumor hasn't been explained very much.
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04-28-2017, 04:36 PM
#140
Originally Posted by
Jarius
Of course. There will certainly be evidence to support the allegations. From my understanding, this Rumor is about brand new allegations that have nothing to do with what's in the NOA though which would be different. I could be wrong on that though since this rumor hasn't been explained very much.
Testimony from a 2017 kid implicating the same boosters that are involved in allegations surrounding 2016 kids is relevant.
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