This is what it comes down to for me

[Really Clark?]

That's NOT what my post said, I said I had looked and couldn't find any, but maybe someone could. I considered Jackie's deal, but didn't want to start an argument, but now will explain why I didn't include that.

Yes we made a run, but benefited by a weaker than normal SEC west. But truth be told, if State doesn't beat Alabama in 96, he was gone. Then catch a break by playing OM in a monsoon.

Jackie saved his own ass by hiring Joe Lee. By the end of the year, Joe Lee had those guys believing and playing balls out on defense.

Then the program imploded anyway 4 years later. So the program didn't get better long term.

Now, some how Mullen needs to save his own ass, but he won't have the benefit of a weak SEC west. And nothing I've seen has lead me to believe there is a Joe Lee on staff to help him.

AGAIN, unless Mullen has an off the field issue, or goes 0-12, i don't for a minute believe he will be fired this year, and IMO, he like Jackie, has earned the right to try and fix it.

I know Random Poster quoted you and that was the post I was referring to when I said poster. It was a very simplistic statement that I knew was incorrect in that context. I knew you are pretty good about historic context.

JWS is an odd one, sort of like Mike Price when he was at Washington State. And you are correct, JWS was a breath away from being fired. There was some really good years but stretches of very bad to average mixed in. I guess you have to ask what is sustaining the program? To me if you bounce back to at least your career average for 2-3 years then you are sustaining to a position you enjoyed before the bad loss and/or year. And I was also only talking about coaches who had good runs in their first 4 years or sustained a pretty good of 8+ years. I don't consider someone who would have sucked for 4-5 years worth mentioning because they didn't do anything to warrant a longer time for about 95% of the cases.

[Really Clark?]

Historically, you are correct. (S. Alabama being the generic term for any team that wins that type game)

This is what worries me.

Recover for the season or are you talking recover and bounce back after that year? VT lost to James Madison in 2010 and still won the ACC.

[Spiderman]

Recover for the season or are you talking recover and bounce back after that year? VT lost to James Madison in 2010 and still won the ACC.

program as a whole

[Really Clark?]

program as a whole

Beamer of course did it. Price is tough because it happened to him like year 10 or so during a horrible stretch but he goes 10 wins in back to back years and gets the Bama job. His replacement, who was promoted from within, won 10 his first year. So I really think Price actually not only sustained it but that was the greatest run they had. And historical they are abysmal.