Todd and other baseball gurus...

[PMDawg]

And now they've got one in Hollman.

That's our point: we win a Natty, loose the studs that got us there, do nothing to replace them, finish 14th next year, do nothing to fix the team, finish 13th the next year

LSU wins the Natty, looses the studs that got them there, and immediately get studs from the Portal to replace them. What do you want to bet they're a top 6 team in the SEC next year and finish above us?

Johnsons success in the portal is only highlighting Lemos failures as a HC

Lose? What's the Difference? Lose is a verb that means "to fail to win, to misplace, or to free oneself from something or someone." Loose is an adjective that means "not tight."

Past tense of lose is lost. Loss is a noun, meaning "the fact or process of losing something or someone". Plural is losses (more than one loss). Looses is the 3rd person present of loose. Loosed is the past tense of loose (something was made loose in the past).

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

Lose? What's the Difference? Lose is a verb that means "to fail to win, to misplace, or to free oneself from something or someone." Loose is an adjective that means "not tight."

Past tense of lose is lost. Loss is a noun, meaning "the fact or process of losing something or someone". Plural is losses (more than one loss). Looses is the 3rd person present of loose. Loosed is the past tense of loose (something was made loose in the past).

What if I told you I don't give a shit about grammar? I'm typing on a phone that autorrects and im not going to take the time to go back and fix stuff for grammar nazis. This is a sports board, not my work email

The point of language is to communicate. If you refuse to address my overall point because of an extra "o" in a word, then is that a failure on my part to communicate my ideas, or is it a failure on your part to try to understand them?

[Coach34]

And now they've got one in Hollman.

That's our point: we win a Natty, loose the studs that got us there, do nothing to replace them, finish 14th next year, do nothing to fix the team, finish 13th the next year

LSU wins the Natty, looses the studs that got them there, and immediately get studs from the Portal to replace them. What do you want to bet they're a top 6 team in the SEC next year and finish above us?

Johnsons success in the portal is only highlighting Lemos failures as a HC

Who was dumb enough to think we were going to pull a top notch recruit over LSU? It doesnt matter who our coach is- that's not going to happen but once a blue moon when LSU has a good coach. Manieri is gone- that LSU holiday is ovahhhhhh.

aGAIN-

2022- injuries killed that team. You can ignore it if you want- but losing your #1 and #2 SP's is a killer. Sims was almost the same as a Skenes. Lemon got a pass for that
2023- too young on the mound- good from the standpoint of a Top 5 recruiting class. Bad from the standpoint he was unable to get some portal arms to take the pressure off the freshmen. PC fired for this.
2024- ?????? He better make it happen or he is gone. It's that simple

[RockyDog]

What makes Todd a baseball guru other than he predicts MSU to Omaha EVERY preseason?

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

Who was dumb enough to think we were going to pull a top notch recruit over LSU? It doesnt matter who our coach is- that's not going to happen but once a blue moon when LSU has a good coach. Manieri is gone- that LSU holiday is ovahhhhhh.

aGAIN-

2022- injuries killed that team. You can ignore it if you want- but losing your #1 and #2 SP's is a killer. Sims was almost the same as a Skenes. Lemon got a pass for that
2023- too young on the mound- good from the standpoint of a Top 5 recruiting class. Bad from the standpoint he was unable to get some portal arms to take the pressure off the freshmen. PC fired for this.
2024- ?????? He better make it happen or he is gone. It's that simple

22: "Injuries"? We lost 4 pitchers. Most teams lose 2-4 pitchers, we were not that out of the ordinary. Arky that year also lost their ace, for example. Can you win the league with bad injury luck? No. But should you finish 14th...

"Injuries" do not justify finishing dead last.

23: "young on the mound"? Who's fault is that?? It's year 5 of Lemo, the portal has existed for years now, and he saw our staff in '22. Auburn got 2 starters from the Portal. Arky got starters from the Portal. LSU got 2 starters. We got Gartman. You act like this is all on Fox as if the head coach isn't supposed to have a clue about his own roster talent or situation.

Regarding LSU: You keep saying how there's no way we could ever land a player they want. You keep saying Lemo should get a 3rd year after missing Hoover 2x. Honestly, it seems you don't think very highly of our program overall.

Let me ask you something:

Over say, the next 10 years, where will State Baseballs average conference finish be?

See I've got LSU, Vandy, and UF as clearly better programs. Throw in Arky too but there's really no fundamental reason we can't catch them. So that puts us 5th. I see no reason to think TN, SC, OM, Auburn, A&M, or any other SEC program should routinely finish ahead of us. Some years? Of course. Average over 10? Maybe 1-2 of these programs can beat us out.

So I've got us as the 4th-7th best SEC baseball program. Considering 8 SEC teams hosted this year, that means we should be squarely in hosting territory, and should be a national seed as often as we don't host. Missing Hoover 2x is pretty damn far from hosting, wouldn't you agree? JoMo was fired after making 2 bowl games because it was clear the program was going down... but missing Hoover back to back for the 1st time in decades isn't a sign for Lemo? Anyway,

What do you think is a reasonable "average" for our baseball program?

[Todd4State]

What makes Todd a baseball guru other than he predicts MSU to Omaha EVERY preseason?

1. I don't know who told you I'm sleeping with your wife but it's not true.

2. I hope you're typing this at least 50 yards from an elementary school. I'd hate for you to get arrested while posting on Elitedawgs.

3. I keep asking you for a link where I said we would be in Omaha this year and you have continually failed to provide it.

[Todd4State]

22: "Injuries"? We lost 4 pitchers. Most teams lose 2-4 pitchers, we were not that out of the ordinary. Arky that year also lost their ace, for example. Can you win the league with bad injury luck? No. But should you finish 14th...

"Injuries" do not justify finishing dead last.

23: "young on the mound"? Who's fault is that?? It's year 5 of Lemo, the portal has existed for years now, and he saw our staff in '22. Auburn got 2 starters from the Portal. Arky got starters from the Portal. LSU got 2 starters. We got Gartman. You act like this is all on Fox as if the head coach isn't supposed to have a clue about his own roster talent or situation.

Regarding LSU: You keep saying how there's no way we could ever land a player they want. You keep saying Lemo should get a 3rd year after missing Hoover 2x. Honestly, it seems you don't think very highly of our program overall.

Let me ask you something:

Over say, the next 10 years, where will State Baseballs average conference finish be?

See I've got LSU, Vandy, and UF as clearly better programs. Throw in Arky too but there's really no fundamental reason we can't catch them. So that puts us 5th. I see no reason to think TN, SC, OM, Auburn, A&M, or any other SEC program should routinely finish ahead of us. Some years? Of course. Average over 10? Maybe 1-2 of these programs can beat us out.

So I've got us as the 4th-7th best SEC baseball program. Considering 8 SEC teams hosted this year, that means we should be squarely in hosting territory, and should be a national seed as often as we don't host. Missing Hoover 2x is pretty damn far from hosting, wouldn't you agree? JoMo was fired after making 2 bowl games because it was clear the program was going down... but missing Hoover back to back for the 1st time in decades isn't a sign for Lemo? Anyway,

What do you think is a reasonable "average" for our baseball program?

Where we finish in the SEC matters very little. As long as we're doing well enough to be a National Seed or host we have a very good chance to make noise and win what really counts. And yes we have enough talent to do that. Again- you have ZERO clue how bad Foxhall was because you do not understand the game or what you are watching to have any sort of context. That's as respectful as I can put it. You talk about Joe Moorhead- what you're talking about would be more like firing Dan Mullen because of Peter Sirmon.

Over the next ten years we will be fine regardless of what happens in 2024. If Lemonis doesn't win next year he will be gone. Remember I was one of the ones telling you he was coming back literally all of last year. You argued with me over it and were wrong. So because Lemonis will either have to win or leave in 2024 that has no bearing on our next 10 seasons because he will either turn it around or be gone and we'll likely hire someone that will turn it around.

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

Where we finish in the SEC matters very little. As long as we're doing well enough to be a National Seed or host we have a very good chance to make noise and win what really counts. And yes we have enough talent to do that. Again- you have ZERO clue how bad Foxhall was because you do not understand the game or what you are watching to have any sort of context. That's as respectful as I can put it. You talk about Joe Moorhead- what you're talking about would be more like firing Dan Mullen because of Peter Sirmon.

Over the next ten years we will be fine regardless of what happens in 2024. If Lemonis doesn't win next year he will be gone. Remember I was one of the ones telling you he was coming back literally all of last year. You argued with me over it and were wrong. So because Lemonis will either have to win or leave in 2024 that has no bearing on our next 10 seasons because he will either turn it around or be gone and we'll likely hire someone that will turn it around.

Man you're high on yourself lol

No, last year I didn't "argue with you about whether Lemonis would be back". Obviously we would give him a mulligan after he won a NC, I never said otherwise.

Dan Mullen and Sirmon? If Mullen brought sirmonback for a 2nd season and the team finished 5-7 again Mullen 100% would have been fired but Mullen cut the cancer after 1 season. We also were decent on offense and overall discipline, whereas our baseball team was sub average on offense and awful on defense because Lemo can't coach fundamentals.

I remember and have linked you literally saying we should fire Lemo and bring in Polk as an interim. That was in March this year I think. But go on about how you're so consistent

I do agree with the last sentence- we are a good program and a ton of good coaches would take our job. That's why it's dumb to keep Lemo for a 6th season when he's epically failed in years 4 and 5.

[deltadawg63]

Where we finish in the SEC matters very little. As long as we're doing well enough to be a National Seed or host we have a very good chance to make noise and win what really counts. And yes we have enough talent to do that. Again- you have ZERO clue how bad Foxhall was because you do not understand the game or what you are watching to have any sort of context. That's as respectful as I can put it. You talk about Joe Moorhead- what you're talking about would be more like firing Dan Mullen because of Peter Sirmon.

Over the next ten years we will be fine regardless of what happens in 2024. If Lemonis doesn't win next year, he will be gone. Remember I was one of the ones telling you he was coming back literally all of last year. You argued with me over it and were wrong. So because Lemonis will either have to win or leave in 2024 that has no bearing on our next 10 seasons because he will either turn it around or be gone and we'll likely hire someone that will turn it around.

I have the opinion that Selmon made a strictly business and financial decision in this light...MSU baseball is going to sell out on season tickets, while boxes, clubs and condos are also going to sell out; thus, the revenue in 2024 will be the same as prior years regardless of the losing in 2023. Only concessions will be at risk due to less people in seats if we lose again at same rate as 2023 but that amount is minor compared to the others. So keep Lemonis and lower his buyout substantially with close to the same or the same revenue as prior year.

That is strictly a business analysis: Income vs. expenses projection with no regard to the non-financial factors. Otherwise, Lemonis would have been out.

I truly believe he has to make Regional with a promising outlook to extend contract after 2024 and that outlook is tough with the likely roster departures after next year.

Need to enjoy what i expect to be an over-achieving football team that plays hard 100% of the time; with out key injuries could reach 8 wins. Then enjoy a good basketball season with both men's and women's competing for top 4 spots in SEC and to be clear NCAA tourney entrants!

[Todd4State]

Man you're high on yourself lol

No, last year I didn't "argue with you about whether Lemonis would be back". Obviously we would give him a mulligan after he won a NC, I never said otherwise.

Dan Mullen and Sirmon? If Mullen brought sirmonback for a 2nd season and the team finished 5-7 again Mullen 100% would have been fired but Mullen cut the cancer after 1 season. We also were decent on offense and overall discipline, whereas our baseball team was sub average on offense and awful on defense because Lemo can't coach fundamentals.

I remember and have linked you literally saying we should fire Lemo and bring in Polk as an interim. That was in March this year I think. But go on about how you're so consistent

I do agree with the last sentence- we are a good program and a ton of good coaches would take our job. That's why it's dumb to keep Lemo for a 6th season when he's epically failed in years 4 and 5.

You can link where I said that about Polk but I'm pretty sure I was likely talking about what our options would be if we did fire Lemonis in season- not that I said that's what I would want to do. I can probably find where you said Lemonis wouldn't be able to hire a decent pitching coach while we're going that route too. Other than the Arkansas weekend where I had heard that there was more support about firing Lemonis which then quickly faded- yeah I was pretty consistent with saying that Lemonis was staying.

So you think our overall discipline is a problem on the baseball team? OK. Well the guy that was fighting everyone is at Georgia now. The team very clearly didn't quit on Lemonis despite having a lot of good reasons too. You can't just look at years four and five without taking into account years one to three. This isn't a Croom situation at all. Keep going on about our offense and our defense while our pitching was outlier bad. Having a winning season with a team ERA over 7 on the year and 9 in the SEC is actually pretty impressive. I mentioned Sirmon because the recruiting cycles in both sports are different. Not to mention had Dan won a National Championship with Sirmon as our DC in 2014 I guarantee you he would have gotten two years.

[Todd4State]

I have the opinion that Selmon made a strictly business and financial decision in this light...MSU baseball is going to sell out on season tickets, while boxes, clubs and condos are also going to sell out; thus, the revenue in 2024 will be the same as prior years regardless of the losing in 2023. Only concessions will be at risk due to less people in seats if we lose again at same rate as 2023 but that amount is minor compared to the others. So keep Lemonis and lower his buyout substantially with close to the same or the same revenue as prior year.

That is strictly a business analysis: Income vs. expenses projection with no regard to the non-financial factors. Otherwise, Lemonis would have been out.

I truly believe he has to make Regional with a promising outlook to extend contract after 2024 and that outlook is tough with the likely roster departures after next year.

Need to enjoy what i expect to be an over-achieving football team that plays hard 100% of the time; with out key injuries could reach 8 wins. Then enjoy a good basketball season with both men's and women's competing for top 4 spots in SEC and to be clear NCAA tourney entrants!

That's definitely part of it. A big part of it for sure. It doesn't really come down to just one thing but several things and what it comes down to is what is best for Mississippi State baseball? I guarantee you that if MSU thought firing Chris was best it would be done. See Cann. There is definitely a core group of MSU baseball fans that will show up no matter what. At the same time if MSU loses enough or becomes stagnant attendance will drop.

The buyout is part of the financials and also what the realistic market for the next coach would be and how much we pay them would be? A huge buyout plus the negative perception in the coaching industry of firing a coach two years off of winning a National Championship would have probably caused us to end up with a mid major coach at best. The reality is our fans expect us to at least go after the best in the business and had we fired Chris I think that would have limited our pool severely which would have potentially caused us to have to look for another new coach in the next few years. Because of how we handled our coaches now we have the potential to realistically make an offer to a guy like a Tony Vitello- not saying that we would get him but we could make a serious offer. We want to beat LSU? Well- hire better people if the people in place aren't able to do it. Resources are not an issue for us. The program doesn't have to be built to increase fan support- that's in place too. Those two things will still be in place if Lemonis goes 24-30 next year too.

It's also about being wise with our money too. We could have afforded to buy out Lemonis if we just absolutely wanted too. But for us to have the coach we expect to have it would have cost us more than waiting a year because of Lemonis's buyout plus we would have had to overpay because we essentially proved that we're impatient. Coaches would have been like "why didn't they just hire a new pitching coach?"

[basedog]

That's definitely part of it. A big part of it for sure. It doesn't really come down to just one thing but several things and what it comes down to is what is best for Mississippi State baseball? I guarantee you that if MSU thought firing Chris was best it would be done. See Cann. There is definitely a core group of MSU baseball fans that will show up no matter what. At the same time if MSU loses enough or becomes stagnant attendance will drop.

The buyout is part of the financials and also what the realistic market for the next coach would be and how much we pay them would be? A huge buyout plus the negative perception in the coaching industry of firing a coach two years off of winning a National Championship would have probably caused us to end up with a mid major coach at best. The reality is our fans expect us to at least go after the best in the business and had we fired Chris I think that would have limited our pool severely which would have potentially caused us to have to look for another new coach in the next few years. Because of how we handled our coaches now we have the potential to realistically make an offer to a guy like a Tony Vitello- not saying that we would get him but we could make a serious offer. We want to beat LSU? Well- hire better people if the people in place aren't able to do it. Resources are not an issue for us. The program doesn't have to be built to increase fan support- that's in place too. Those two things will still be in place if Lemonis goes 24-30 next year too.

It's also about being wise with our money too. We could have afforded to buy out Lemonis if we just absolutely wanted too. But for us to have the coach we expect to have it would have cost us more than waiting a year because of Lemonis's buyout plus we would have had to overpay because we essentially proved that we're impatient. Coaches would have been like "why didn't they just hire a new pitching coach?"

Todd, I think it's more than "why didn't we fire the PC", our offense and defense was below standards. You said it wasn't a discipline problem and the team didn't quit. I saw several times kids not going all out. We had problems and it showed. There is no sugar coating the situation the last two years, bottom line, shouldn't have happened and I bet Lemonis knows this as he seemed to be more involved the last few weeks of the season. But looking at what is happening today, we should be better but I'm not sure how much better and what it will take to win the fans back to Lemonis side. It's gonna be an uphill battle for him and everyone knows this.

[Todd4State]

Todd, I think it's more than "why didn't we fire the PC", our offense and defense was below standards. You said it wasn't a discipline problem and the team didn't quit. I saw several times kids not going all out. We had problems and it showed. There is no sugar coating the situation the last two years, bottom line, shouldn't have happened and I bet Lemonis knows this as he seemed to be more involved the last few weeks of the season. But looking at what is happening today, we should be better but I'm not sure how much better and what it will take to win the fans back to Lemonis side. It's gonna be an uphill battle for him and everyone knows this.

He got rid of Forsythe and Alford so I would say that's a start. Offense will be fine. We have Jordan and Hines. Add Montgomery and that's a very dangerous lineup. We also will have three seniors at least in the lineup- that usually means veteran hitters who typically have their best season because of their experience. Highfill will probably hit better than .229 or whatever it was he hit and Mershon will probably hit at least.300.

I'm not too worried about either because neither one was outlier bad to the point where it was the primary issue. Also defensive stats are by far the most subjective stats out there making them pretty inaccurate across the board. It's all based on the official scorer.

If Lemonis wins he'll be fine. If he doesn't he'll be gone. It's pretty cut and dried.

[basedog]

He got rid of Forsythe and Alford so I would say that's a start. Offense will be fine. We have Jordan and Hines. Add Montgomery and that's a very dangerous lineup. We also will have three seniors at least in the lineup- that usually means veteran hitters who typically have their best season because of their experience. Highfill will probably hit better than .229 or whatever it was he hit and Mershon will probably hit at least.300.

I'm not too worried about either because neither one was outlier bad to the point where it was the primary issue. Also defensive stats are by far the most subjective stats out there making them pretty inaccurate across the board. It's all based on the official scorer.

If Lemonis wins he'll be fine. If he doesn't he'll be gone. It's pretty cut and dried.

I'm not disagreeing with your take for say next year, I'm talking about what happened the last few years. We just disagree with his future, he hasn't been involved enough and it showed. It's an uphill battle.

[Todd4State]

I'm not disagreeing with your take for say next year, I'm talking about what happened the last few years. We just disagree with his future, he hasn't been involved enough and it showed. It's an uphill battle.

I agree he has been hands off. That works fine if you have great assistants- see Leach and Arnett.

If you don't that can be a major problem. A lot of coaches that don't have pitching backgrounds tend to be hands off with their pitching coaches even at the MLB level.

[basedog]

I agree he has been hands off. That works fine if you have great assistants- see Leach and Arnett.

If you don't that can be a major problem. A lot of coaches that don't have pitching backgrounds tend to be hands off with their pitching coaches even at the MLB level.

Yes, Ron Polk is a good example but I think he was more engaged with players. I don't think Lemonis is engaged, I know he is laid back somewhat and I'm not sure this works in the college level. RP was and is loved by his players, his personality was geared to players.

[Todd4State]

Yes, Ron Polk is a good example but I think he was more engaged with players. I don't think Lemonis is engaged, I know he is laid back somewhat and I'm not sure this works in the college level. RP was and is loved by his players, his personality was geared to players.

As you know from being a coach not every player is going to love you. That said guys like Tanner Allen love Lemonis and he does have support from players that played for him. I'm just putting that out there.