Quote Originally Posted by PMDawg View Post
You've misconstrued some things I said.

I shouldn't have said "all the time", I'll give you that. It does happen, but it goes back to training and procedures keeping it from happening more often. They have partners, they stay in the safest positions, they're armed, they have bullet proof vests, etc. It also goes back to that "being on edge". They're trained to stay aware. They have a right to be on edge all the time. They have to be because they don't know what situation is dangerous and which one isn't. Another difference with those other professions you mention. There aren't a lot of surprises with roofing. Just don't fall off and you're good. But, most of them can't even be bothered to tie off. Like I said, I can hire 4 bums and start roofing tomorrow. I doubt it would be a really safe crew, but all I have to do is buy insurance.

I don't know what you're trying to argue with this "point" about stress. They don't have a right to be stressed? Just because you don't believe they should feel like they are constantly in danger of losing their life? Sorry, but many of them feel that way, and many of them have good reason to. They can't afford to let their guard down, because that's when they'll get hurt or killed. When the crap does hit the fan, they have a split second to make a decision, and that's generally when the training kicks in. That decision can dictate if an officer, a civilian, or a criminal dies. Hesitation can be disastrous. I'll give you this - so can overreaction. So I'm not excusing screw ups. They happen, and that's awful. I don't condone it or pretend it doesn't happen, but I do understand. When it happens it has to be dealt with. If an officer deserves punishment, they should be punished according to the situation. No question. Unfortunately, our media is so screwed up that these situations usually end up getting tried in the court of public opinion based on little to no facts (or even generated narratives). I'm sure we both agree this needs work on a lot of fronts.

The fact that you think 9 weeks of training is all they get tells me I don't need to debate this point with you. Yes, a short academy gets you in the door. Sorry, but no one is lining up for years of school/training BEFORE you get the job that pays you less than a teacher's salary even though you'll be putting your life on the line. Regardless, that academy gets you a foot patrol in a safe area or a desk job. You get an experienced partner or mentor, and you continue training until the day you retire. They are always training. At least my Dad and his coworkers always were, but what do I know?

And, no, I did not say cops don't get killed more often because they are more "careful" than loggers or roofers. I said they are better trained. They are also better equipped and more prepared. They also work in pairs and watch out for each other. I'm sure loggers are careful. I'm sure they do a lot of safety training. But it's not the same. I really don't even know what you're trying to argue here. You keep referring to some "stress" that allows cops to just kill people willy nilly all day. That's not the case. It's apples and oranges anyway. Trees, equipment, and falls are trying to kill loggers. Falls and heat stroke are trying to kill roofers. People are generally what's trying to kill cops. So for cops, if it goes sideways, they generally either kill or get killed. Loggers aren't packing heat so they can shoot a rogue tree or chainsaw. Roofers can't shoot their way out of a fall. I don't even get what you're trying to do here. That's why cops have the tougher job (of figuring out the situation). They are always in a different situation every minute of every day, conditions are constantly changing, AND they have to try to figure out what the people they are dealing with are thinking/intending. So, yes, they're facing a lot of stressors and stay on edge. It only makes sense. They have to be that way if they want to go home every day. A logger doesn't have to worry about what a tree is thinking. Honestly, what's probably the most dangerous thing on his job is his coworkers. So no, a roofer isn't going to be so scared of falling that he tries to shoot the ground and accidentally kills someone. I just can't get in your frame of mind here.
A lot of words to not address what the stats and facts say.

You say there's all this training for cops, and maybe your dad's department did. But you can't deny the facts that that varies by locality, and it's not even a state wide standard. You also can't deny that I could be patrolling the street with a gun and a badge as a police officer woth 9 weeks of training, or do the same as a Deputy sheriff with 0 weeks of training. That's a problem, even if I was going to recieve adequate training in the future (I would not in my area).

When it comes to "stress" and how "on edge" officers are, I bring up the fact being a cop is unlikely to get you killed because that "fear for my life" is used to justify all kinds of bad decisions made by cops. My point is not to say cops have an easy job, they dont- it was the bring some perspective on how dangerous it actually is, and this how fearful a cop is justified in being. You're doing 18D underwater chess games of logic to justify cops being on edge, but to also say someone working an actual dangerous job isn't on edge. At the end of the day, if a cop is too jumpy to evaluate the situation before he shoots, he shouldn't be a cop. Agree on that?

I also brought up our lack of licensing, you didn't mention it. Do you agree we should have licensing for cops so bad ones can't just be rehired the next town over?

I also brought up the lack of accountability and how it leads to "bad apples". Do you agree with the problems I mentioned? If not, could you break down why you disagree?