Any duck dog advice?

[J-Dawg]

I've hit the wall with training my new retriever. He had done so well until last week or so. Now he is rebelling and becoming a giant pansy when we go to train. He whimpers as if he's been beaten (he hasn't) just when he's been sharply corrected. Needless to say I thought he was a headstrong bully but he may be a softy. It all started when we hit the point in his training in which I started having to get firm and scold him when he would not listen or cooperate and he just hasn't taken very kindly to that.

Needless to say it's very hard to keep my cool. It's just very frustrating because he is a brilliantly smart dog already. Obviously smart enough to know that he doesn't want to get corrected so he just doesn't do it at all.

Hoping it passes. Gonna give him a few days off and just play with him and not worry about working him. Hopefully that helps.

[State82]

Its really tough to keep your temper in check with those rascals, but you just have to do it or possibly risk completely losing him. Probably a good idea to take a little break and just be his pal for a few days. Are you training by any particular book or regimented system? I have used (and so have a lot of people over the years) "Water Dog". It's an old book but has been used successfully for many years. Keep your cool with him, he'll come around.

[J-Dawg]

Yes I'm following a hybrid of "Water Dog" and "Duck Dog Basics" by Chris Akin.

I think he's keying on the time or two I've lost my temper. Probably good advice to give it a rest for a while.

What's so funny is I can bring him inside and get out of that "training element" and he will retrieve those bumpers to his hearts content.

I should have clarified that he still obeys fairly sharply on all of his sit/stay/here/heel. It's like he "shuts off" when I drag out a bumper outside and toss it. He looks at me like "man you're just gonna scold me if I go get it". I mean won't budge. And it's not that he's afraid of the bumper because he retrieves it fine inside and if we aren't in a "formal" training session. It's frustrating bc I've gotten to the point where I'm wanting to start with disciplined retrieves and letting me send him and he just won't budge. And like I've said I've never laid an ill-advised hand on him other than a pop in the snout or bumper on the rump. I'm wondering if he keyed on the single time I popped him with that bumper? Certainly not bc he doesn't act scared of the bumper itself, just of the act of retrieving it.

I certainly know that I'm probably and issue as well, I'm not exact known to be one that can hide my anger or frustration. He can probably read my expressions and tone even when I'm trying to keep a positive mood while frustrated

Sorry for the novel. Anyone else got any tips?

[FISHDAWG]

I'm not exact known to be one that can hide my anger or frustration. He can probably read my expressions and tone even when I'm trying to keep a positive mood while frustrated

I believe that's exactly whats happening ... intelligent dogs can confuse frustration with anger .... also, I'm sure he is very young, some dogs respond better with a little bit of age ... if the problem continues you might have to go to a shock collar in order to remove the human element during correction ... I hate collars and when they are used it should be on the very lowest setting ..... interesting, keep us informed so we might follow the progress. DISCLAIMER - I have never trained labs or any other dog for waterfowl hunting - my experience is with bird dogs, coon dogs, beagles, and deer hounds .... and not professionally, these were my own animals

[J-Dawg]

Thanks for the advice. I'll keep this thread updated.

Gonna give him a few days break and just let him be a pup. Maybe get the fun back.

[Political Hack]

my dad used to whip the dog with the paper... until the dog started burying the paper every morning.

He might have chosen not to go get his own whipping stick anymore.

[LandDawg]

and gotten to what seems to be the same point you are cur.

If you believe its taken a lot of patience to this point, it gets worse. IMO there arent but a handful of
people out there that can truly finish a retriever. You may be one of those people. I am certainly not. As previously stated, take some time off may help.

My main recommendation (where I think I went wrong each time) is dont get to close to the dog outside of the hunt. This was impossible for me leading to all my labs becoming just pets. Ive seen some decent retrievers that were house dogs, but basically you need to be the dogs handler, not his best friend.

Another thing to think about in the future is getting a female. They tend to be more even tempered and seem to not mix human signals and emotions like a male.

Keep us updated especially if things get better.

Good Luck

[FISHDAWG]

this thread got me to thinking back and wanted to share this .... we (me and my fellow hunting buds) used to put coon scent from a bottle on the paws of my buddies sister's cat when she was away from the house ... worked like a charm. the puppies would cold trail the cat until they made it "tree" then we shake the cat out and it was chase on again ....... until the afternoon his sister pulled in with his parents and they just happened to see nearly a dozen 7-8 months old puppies (big puppies like black & tans, redbones, & blue-ticks) treeing her precious cat ... just happened that the cat jumped and took off with all those dogs right on it's butt as they got out of the car ......oh well, it was nice while it lasted

[J-Dawg]

my dad used to whip the dog with the paper... until the dog started burying the paper every morning.

He might have chosen not to go get his own whipping stick anymore.

Was my initial thought even though I only did that once. Plus, he has no problems with the bumper and other time. He played with it earlier today so I find it hard to believe it's the object.

[Political Hack]

Was my initial thought even though I only did that once. Plus, he has no problems with the bumper and other time. He played with it earlier today so I find it hard to believe it's the object.

I don't know much of anything about training a dog, but it could be the venue and the bumper combined. It's probably not it alone, but if you eliminate a few of the possible problems it could be enough to encourage him to go back to work.

taking a few days off and being his "friend" will probably get that trust back more quickly than anything else. Hell, I'd open the front door and throw the bumper out the door just to get him used to chasing it outside again.

[fishwater99]

You need to take a good week off. Then maybe get someone else to work with him a time or two before you do again.

Both my father and myself have each ruined a good lab(my dad more than one) by being too stern with them.
He has since gone to Boykin Spaniels, on his 4th one now, and no problems with that breed so far. Great retrievers and family dogs.
The breed seems to adapt well to both hunting and being a pet. We both also prefer females.
I have a Boykin, but she's not really a duck dog. I didn't have the time needed to train her properly, she retrieves by sight only..

Good Luck, I know that it can get very frustrating...

[Maroonthirteen]

I think the best advice in this thread but maybe the most difficult, is be their trainer and not their buddy. If you want a finished dog that will be rock solid steady and a good field trial dog.

So with that in mind, I would kennel the dog for a couple or three days. Just feed and water the dog. Then let him out after a few days and go straight to tossing a few bumpers. He should be so excited to get out that he should forget about the negative association. Just a guess.

[J-Dawg]

Thanks for all the advice.

This is my 2nd lab, the first of which I got while at state and has since passed. I didn't have enough time to train her either, so while she could retrieve by sight, she wasn't very disciplined with basic commands and obviously nothing hunt worthy. But she was an excellent dog and pet.

The current little fella is smart. Too smart. Thinks he can outsmart us repeatedly. And I know it's possible to have a good pet and a good duck dog, I've hunted with several. The Water Dog book has a section that explains they will hit a "rebellious" stage around this stage. I'm going to hope it passes, give him some room and do a little frustration management myself.

Keep the tips coming.