Mullen vs. Croom based on records and facts

[SheltonChoked]

Here is just an emphaisis, on WMD point:

Which of the following programs should we pass: Programs ranked by total athletic budget for 2012:

1) Alabama $124,899,945

2) Florida $120,772,106

3)Texas A&M $119,702,222

4)LSU $114,787,786

5)Auburn $105,951,251

6)Tennessee $102,884,286

7)Arkansas $99,757,482

8)Georgia $91,670,613

9)Kentucky $88,373,452

10)South Carolina $87,608,352

11)Mississippi State $69,828,880

12)Ole Miss $51,858,993

13) Missouri $50,719,665


Note: MSU is $19MM out of 13th place and $17MM out of 10th.

We should be getting more for our money? Seems like we should be getting more money. 11 of 14.

[The Croom Diaries]

2.7MM will be 12-13 in the SEC next season

What's your point? It's still top 25 (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/colle...s/ncaaf/coach/). Are there not 25 very good coaches in this country? Based on what we see on the field, with the mistakes in personnel decisions and then lack of focus at times I can't conclude that Mullen is a very good coach. He's done an excellent job in most every area of the program, and that may be enough to continue giving him a chance to prove he can become a very good coach, but I don't see much to definitively prove he is.

[SheltonChoked]

Last I checked we played 8 games in the SEC every year.

Money in the bottom 1/3rd. wins in the middle 3rd. seems a good return.

[The Croom Diaries]

Last I checked we played 8 games in the SEC every year.

Money in the bottom 1/3rd. wins in the middle 3rd. seems a good return.

Why do we even bother being fans then? Does anyone think we are going to win the West at any point? Maybe we'll win it once every 20-30 years or something. The one thing we can hope for is winning a game every now and then that we aren't supposed to - like one of the last three perhaps. We haven't done that in 3 years. Apathy is beginning to set in. Maybe we'll go 6-6 this year and go to another bowl. Then similar results next year as far as beating poor teams and losing to good ones and go to another bowl game. But fans get apathetic always knowing what will happen. Not everyone is satisfied with good enough.

[Coach34]

Why do we even bother being fans then? Does anyone think we are going to win the West at any point? .

Personally, I dont. Just like I dont see Ole Miss winning it as well. Kentucky and Vandy arent going to win the East either.

We may come close once every 15-20 years, but in the current climate of college football and the direction it's heading- it's just going to be a tough task to ask a coach at State or Ole Miss to beat 4-5 top 15 teams to win the SEC West. Especially with a 9th SEC game headed our way

Ole Miss had the recruiting class of a lifetime- and they STILL finished 3rd in the West. That tells you all you need to know

[War Machine Dawg]

Here is just an emphaisis, on WMD point:

Which of the following programs should we pass: Programs ranked by total athletic budget for 2012:

1) Alabama $124,899,945

2) Florida $120,772,106

3)Texas A&M $119,702,222

4)LSU $114,787,786

5)Auburn $105,951,251

6)Tennessee $102,884,286

7)Arkansas $99,757,482

8)Georgia $91,670,613

9)Kentucky $88,373,452

10)South Carolina $87,608,352

11)Mississippi State $69,828,880

12)Ole Miss $51,858,993

13) Missouri $50,719,665


Note: MSU is $19MM out of 13th place and $17MM out of 10th.

We should be getting more for our money? Seems like we should be getting more money. 11 of 14.

It's eye-opening to look at the disparity between the "haves" and the "have nots" within the conference. Two things that jumped out to me: Auburn has more money then TN. And 7 schools have more money than UGA. I'd have never believed that. Until we're willing to get rid of LT 2.0 and go outside "the family" and get a ball busting AD, we can't really expect much more than what we're getting.

[The Croom Diaries]

Personally, I dont. Just like I dont see Ole Miss winning it as well. Kentucky and Vandy arent going to win the East either.

We may come close once every 15-20 years, but in the current climate of college football and the direction it's heading- it's just going to be a tough task to ask a coach at State or Ole Miss to beat 4-5 top 15 teams to win the SEC West. Especially with a 9th SEC game headed our way

Ole Miss had the recruiting class of a lifetime- and they STILL finished 3rd in the West. That tells you all you need to know

That was my point if you would have included my next sentence. We aren't going to win the west so all we have to get excited about is the occasional upset and the Egg Bowl. We haven't had an upset in 3 years and if we lose the Egg Bowl that will be taken away for the second straight year. Then comes the apathy among the fans. We need the Egg Bowl in the worst way.

[NewTweederEndzoneDance]

What's your point? It's still top 25 (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/colle...s/ncaaf/coach/). Are there not 25 very good coaches in this country? Based on what we see on the field, with the mistakes in personnel decisions and then lack of focus at times I can't conclude that Mullen is a very good coach. He's done an excellent job in most every area of the program, and that may be enough to continue giving him a chance to prove he can become a very good coach, but I don't see much to definitively prove he is.

Why do you want to compare our coaches' salary nationally, while at the same time holding the coach to the standard of "doing the minimum" because he's not beating coaches in the SEC making more than him? Who gives a shit what we pay nationally, if we can only pay 11th most in the conference. Last I checked we don't have Baylor's schedule.

[War Machine Dawg]

Why do you want to compare our coaches' salary nationally, while at the same time holding the coach to the standard of "doing the minimum" because he's not beating coaches in the SEC making more than him? Who gives a shit what we pay nationally, if we can only pay 11th most in the conference. Last I checked we don't have Baylor's schedule.

+1 It's talking out of both sides of your mouth.

[The Croom Diaries]

Why do you want to compare our coaches' salary nationally, while at the same time holding the coach to the standard of "doing the minimum" because he's not beating coaches in the SEC making more than him? Who gives a shit what we pay nationally, if we can only pay 11th most in the conference. Last I checked we don't have Baylor's schedule.

Well my point was that I don't thing Mullen has proven to be worthy of being an SEC coach, and that for $2.7 million we should be able to find a coach that is. But that's just my opinion and I could very well be wrong. Over the last 3 years we have played 20 teams who ended the season with a winning record and we've only beaten 3 of them - all non-conference, non-BCS teams. No other school outside of Kentucky has performed that poorly over the last 3 years. Maybe that's going to change, I don't know. I give Mullen much credit for building the program, I just question his ability to take the next step. I think he's a good coach, and only a good coach would be able to beat every bad team we play - but this is the SEC and not only should everyone have a good coach, but a very good coach.

[Percho]

Just remember all things are not equal. We could win the SEC 13-0 and if we did it would be a better than equal chance two one loss teams would play for the NC. For us to be above mediocre in the west we would need to finish 3rd, however if we were 3rd for three years then we would have to move to 2nd to be above mediocre.

Perception.

[Percho]

Well my point was that I don't thing Mullen has proven to be worthy of being an SEC coach, and that for $2.7 million we should be able to find a coach that is. But that's just my opinion and I could very well be wrong. Over the last 3 years we have played 20 teams who ended the season with a winning record and we've only beaten 3 of them - all non-conference, non-BCS teams. No other school outside of Kentucky has performed that poorly over the last 3 years. Maybe that's going to change, I don't know. I give Mullen much credit for building the program, I just question his ability to take the next step. I think he's a good coach, and only a good coach would be able to beat every bad team we play - but this is the SEC and not only should everyone have a good coach, but a very good coach.

Realistically how long do you think it would have taken Saban coming from the Dolphins to MSU to win a NC given our history in football? Or would he?

[Homedawg]

Personally, I dont. Just like I dont see Ole Miss winning it as well. Kentucky and Vandy arent going to win the East either.

We may come close once every 15-20 years, but in the current climate of college football and the direction it's heading- it's just going to be a tough task to ask a coach at State or Ole Miss to beat 4-5 top 15 teams to win the SEC West. Especially with a 9th SEC game headed our way

Ole Miss had the recruiting class of a lifetime- and they STILL finished 3rd in the West. That tells you all you need to know

Unfortunately I agree w all of this. It doesn't mean I don't want us to or to quit trying or that I'll be happy after losses. Just that the odds aren't on our side. Just how I see it.

[smootness]

We could win the SEC 13-0 and if we did it would be a better than equal chance two one loss teams would play for the NC.

Uh, no.

[preachermatt83]

Give croom diaries a break. He is one of the few writers/bloggers out there that is tolerable. I enjoy reading his stuff more than any msu beat writer or blogger out there.

[BrunswickDawg]

As hard as it is in this instant gratification world, I still think the key thing is patience. It is obvious to everyone that some people have it and some don't. Just because you are patient doesn't mean you accept mediocrity. It means that you understand the long game and that real accomplishments and building something is a process. People with a lack of patience demand immediate results regardless of the situation - and the results never meet their expectations.

With our history on the field, our resources, the current state of the SECW, our off-field history with always being nailed for recruiting stupidity (let alone the stink Camgate gave us) we have to look long game if we really want to build a program. To me, even with the 5 game flop last season, this is the first truly mediocre season under Dan. 7-5 is well above the MSU norm. The bar has been raised to he point that a Bowl Game is the standard. We don't make a Bowl Game this year, then we need to see corrective changes in the coaching staff to fix glaring weaknesses (SPECIAL TEAMS COACH!!!!), and if the trend continues next year then we have a a real argument to began about having topped out because we have not reached that minimum bar.

5 years ago, almost everyone believed we needed 7-10 years to build up to that steady 8-10 win program. Most thought it would take 3-5 years to get beyond 6-6. I still think that way. Long game guys. It sucks, but we are in the long game.

[The Croom Diaries]

Realistically how long do you think it would have taken Saban coming from the Dolphins to MSU to win a NC given our history in football? Or would he?

I'm not really sure where this question comes from. I don't think we will ever win a national title. But to play this game I guess if you gave Saban 7 years like he's had at Bama with the reputation that proceeded him and his coaching prowess I'd say we would have at least won the SEC by now - for one we wouldn't have had to get past the Alabama machine. As far as natty title, I guess if you gave him 10 years at State I'd assume he'd win one.

[PassInterference]

I like the point Croom Diaries was making. It is too easy for people to say "more bowl games in X years than we've been to in Y years prior". This isn't your father's SEC. For a lot of you, this isn't even the same SEC you attended a several years ago or more. We are almost at the "everybody gets a trophy" level of bowling.

Just bowling doesn't cut it. Six wins should be the floor for any SEC school that isn't in major rebuilding mode.

6 wins is a D.

7 wins is a C.

8 wins is a B

9-10 wins is an A.

More than that is an A+.


We got a C last year and we're scratching and clawing this year for a D.

[The Croom Diaries]

Give croom diaries a break. He is one of the few writers/bloggers out there that is tolerable. I enjoy reading his stuff more than any msu beat writer or blogger out there.

Ha, it's alright I can take it. What most don't seem to understand is that I'm a fan just like all of y'all are fans. I just prefer the blogging format to strictly message boards. I like both because I like interacting with y'all - the hardcore fans, but also I like taking things to a broader audience and letting my take stand at the forefront. People seem to think that I'm trying to be a journalist or make a career out of writing, but I'm not. I did major in sports communication but I'm just a metal building contractor and do this as a hobby, just like y'all. I'm not trying to be objective and I'm not trying to get people to like me. I hope that people do like me and I hope they care about what I have to say, but I'm fine taking one on the chin if I come at things the wrong way.

Thanks for the kind words. Always enjoy the feedback!

[MadDawg]

I think $2.7 million per year deserves a very good coach.

2.7 million in the SEC gets you a coach. Period. It's what the market bears. You want a $800k coach? Join CUSA.