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Thread: Mullen vs. Croom based on records and facts

  1. #21
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    Dumbest thing I've read in a while

    Quote Originally Posted by The Croom Diaries View Post
    Mullen hasn't done anything more than Croom did other than beat the crappy teams we should've been beating in the first place.
    So we no longer lose to shitty teams? I'm pretty happy about not losing to Maine these days, but maybe that's just me. Sure I want to do better, but to even attempt to compare the two regimes is just comical.

  2. #22
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    Everyone acknowledges that Mullen stumbled in recruiting for a couple of years but no one ever actually faces why. We just talk around it. We have just erased it from our memories.

    There was this really big NCAA thing with Cam Newton that implicated us badly. We had a former player and booster heavily involved. Just did. The whole thing really hurt our recruiting. "Turning in" a recruit is not viewed as favorably by other recruits as some think. Then there were other NCAA investigations. The threat of probation hurts as much as the actual probation. We were under a cloud for quite some time. Others used it against us.

    Then Dan kept trying to get another job and publically denying it all the time. The Miami thing was bad. Others used it against us.

    Now, there is all this hot seat talk. Others will use it against us.

    Some of it is self inflicted. Some is not, but there are obvious factors that have caused us to lose recruiting battles we should have won. We just ignore all that stuff and blame it on Mullen for not "being a good recruiter". Pretty simplistic.

  3. #23
    Senior Member Dawgtini's Avatar
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    " beat the crappy teams we should've been beating in the first place"

    Exactly the point an Mullen is doing it. We are light years better, but so I the competition. Your salary envy is showing.

  4. #24
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    There was a time when a succesful coach at MSU was one that would win the games they are supposed to (something we have never had consistently) and occasionally win an upset or two and take us to a NYD bowl.

    Now, this isn't good enough. Now we want wins over top 25 teams consistently and challenging for the SECW against national championship contenders. Anything less shows the program is in shambles and we should be looking at wholesale changes from the head coach to the staff to the AD to the game-day and stadium management.

  5. #25
    Senior Member Barking 13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HunterDawg View Post
    Everyone acknowledges that Mullen stumbled in recruiting for a couple of years but no one ever actually faces why. We just talk around it. We have just erased it from our memories.

    There was this really big NCAA thing with Cam Newton that implicated us badly. We had a former player and booster heavily involved. Just did. The whole thing really hurt our recruiting. "Turning in" a recruit is not viewed as favorably by other recruits as some think. Then there were other NCAA investigations. The threat of probation hurts as much as the actual probation. We were under a cloud for quite some time. Others used it against us.

    Then Dan kept trying to get another job and publically denying it all the time. The Miami thing was bad. Others used it against us.

    Now, there is all this hot seat talk. Others will use it against us.

    Some of it is self inflicted. Some is not, but there are obvious factors that have caused us to lose recruiting battles we should have won. We just ignore all that stuff and blame it on Mullen for not "being a good recruiter". Pretty simplistic.
    BOOM!

  6. #26
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    I personally feel like we should do this:

    Quote Originally Posted by MadDawg View Post
    There was a time when a succesful coach at MSU was one that would win the games they are supposed to (something we have never had consistently) and occasionally win an upset or two and take us to a NYD bowl.
    ....for at least 10 years before we should expect this:

    Quote Originally Posted by MadDawg View Post
    Now, this isn't good enough. Now we want wins over top 25 teams consistently and challenging for the SECW against national championship contenders. Anything less shows the program is in shambles and we should be looking at wholesale changes from the head coach to the staff to the AD to the game-day and stadium management.
    In short, yes, I agree completely.

  7. #27
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    Croom was a horrible gameday coach, but I do think that he had better recruiters on his staff than Mullen.

  8. #28
    General Public Political Hack's Avatar
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    Hunter nailed it, although Dan wasn't going to Miami unless they built a new stadium, new facilities, and threw up a statue of him before he arrived on campus.

  9. #29
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    Good points. Mullen shouldn't shoulder ALL the blame for that, but he definitely deserves some of it. Sometimes I wish he would have just left after 2010 and Hudspeth would have taken over then. I mean, that's what Hudspeth was brought in to do. The stuff about Mullen looking for another job is definitely true. I think he now realizes he must win his way out.

  10. #30
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    Mediocrity > laughing stock.

  11. #31
    Senior Member The Croom Diaries's Avatar
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    Well maybe I should just chalk this one up to poor presentation skills on my part because I was never trying to compare Mullen to Croom as coaches. I'm happy about Mullen beating up the little guys, but I also think he's doing the minimum. I'm still undecided on whether or not Mullen should be back for next year, and the purpose of writing these types of things is to help make that decision. If it makes you feel even better about Mullen that is fine, however, I don't feel that way. As per the last two sentences, "with this data, can you definitively say Mullen performed much better than Croom? And even if you can, are the results on the field after nearly 5 full seasons acceptable, or do you feel Mullen has accomplished the minimum MSU, or any SEC team, should achieve?" it's up to each fan to decide. I'm just trying to help put all the information out there, and yes, I do spin it....but I try to at least give both arguments a fair shake.

  12. #32
    Senior Member The Croom Diaries's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadDawg View Post
    There was a time when a succesful coach at MSU was one that would win the games they are supposed to (something we have never had consistently) and occasionally win an upset or two and take us to a NYD bowl.

    Now, this isn't good enough. Now we want wins over top 25 teams consistently and challenging for the SECW against national championship contenders. Anything less shows the program is in shambles and we should be looking at wholesale changes from the head coach to the staff to the AD to the game-day and stadium management.
    No, just one win would be nice. We've beaten 3 teams in the last 3 years that finished the season with a winning record: Louisiana Tech, Middle Tennessee State and Bowling Green. At some point, and it's already happening, fans become apathetic because they know the outcome of each game before it is played. Regardless of our history or where we can realistically be or whatever, this football program could use a few more variables. Even if it meant losing to Bowling Green but beating Texas A&M, it would create more excitement I think. I'm not saying I would prefer that, but it would dissipate some of the apathy.

  13. #33
    Senior Member DownwardDawg's Avatar
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    The thing I do appreciate about Dan is that I feel confident we will beat Arkansas. He wins these games.

  14. #34
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    Teams that were upset when Croom "got our team up a few times":
    7-5 Florida in 04
    8-4 Auburn in 07
    7-5 Kentucky in 07
    6-6 Alabama in 07 (if you include the vacated wins)
    6-6 Vandy in 08

    All program changing wins right there for sure**

  15. #35
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    Ok, I read the article.

    I looked at the records you posted at the beginning of the article and said, 'Ok, yes, as I thought, Mullen's tenure has been way better'.

    Then I continued reading where you said, 'Let's start by throwing out the games against Kentucky and Ole Miss'. Then I stopped reading. It doesn't matter what comes after that, you just proved that you're trying to twist things around to fit your argument.

    The answer to the question is, 'Yes, Mullen's tenure has been way better and yes, Mullen is a much better coach'. Since you essentially conceded that in your second post in this thread, I have no idea what we're actually talking about.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dawgtini View Post
    " beat the crappy teams we should've been beating in the first place"

    Exactly the point an Mullen is doing it. We are light years better, but so I the competition. Your salary envy is showing.
    ^this
    And yet, he's trying to convince us they are about the same????? I don't see anything the same.

  17. #37
    Senior Member CJDAWG85's Avatar
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    Hunter absolutely nailed it... Completely agree


    As for this thread... This shit brings nothing but bad publicity to our program. It's pretty funny how people bitch about these guys in the media that "bad mouth" us, but have no problem posting stupid ass shit on here that others use against us. We need to get out of our own damn way.
    Happy Festivus

  18. #38
    Senior Member Barking 13's Avatar
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    I agree with what Hunter said and just want to add, that other than the inexplicable oddball play calling and in-game decisions, we wouldn't be having this discussion... let's talk more in a couple weeks...

  19. #39
    Ever Been to Gloster?? cheewgumm's Avatar
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    Our new coaching standard.... CROOM. I long for a day when our fans expect more. That day is coming though.

    Prediction

    2013. 5-7
    2014. 7-5
    2014. 6-6

    At that point a lot of the pro-mulleners will say he's plateaued and we need to move on. Granted, he would have been to 2 more bowls, and they will be 2 yrs late, but at least they will have finally have seen the light.

    I have no idea of the outcome but would love to see a Mullen comparison to Jackie, Ricky, Ballard, etc. At least to see some comparison besides croom. Maybe it will look favorable to Mullen.

  20. #40
    Senior Member smootness's Avatar
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    I'll take 13 wins in 2014, even if it comes with 11 losses.

    And yes, any comparison of Mullen vs. another coach in our history, when looking at the coach's first 5 years, will look favorable to Mullen.

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