2nd lowest point total scored vs OM in 2020

[Todd4State]

No but it never came to mind until you mentioned it. Aside from very recent years OM is ahead of us. Even in recent years they've typically been ahead of us in talent as well. OM recruits itself well. You can argue ethics but the point still stands.

By my count we are 16-14 against them on the field since 1991. 17-17 since 1987. For context with this discussion.

[ShotgunDawg]

By my count we are 16-14 against them on the field since 1991. 17-17 since 1987. For context with this discussion.

This year should have an asterisk or not count

[Todd4State]

This year should have an asterisk or not count

No different than Ole Miss wins in 2014, 15, or 17.

To me, it is what it is. Ultimately this loss goes back to Moorhead's horrible culture and Mullen's terrible recruiting four-five years ago. Part of this we did to ourselves if we're being honest. But at least I feel like we are moving forward in the right direction now.

[SDDawg]

By my count we are 16-14 against them on the field since 1991. 17-17 since 1987. For context with this discussion.

Right, Ole Miss has accomplished nothing. The 2014 Peach Bowl against TCU is one of their BIG HIGHLIGHTS from the last 10 years of the program. Think about that for a sec.

[Cowbell]

Mullen took over a team that wasn't good at all, and played one of the toughest schedules in the country. Every state fan was excited about mullen. There was zero concern over Dan his first season

This is correct

[Cowbell]

Here's the deal. A few weeks ago, I was convinced this offense would never work in the SEC. I still think that, but I think if he adapts, it has a chance. Leach's pass to run ratio seems to be moving heavier towards pass as his career goes on. That's not going to work. At Texas Tech, he ran the ball much more, and I think he needs to move back to that. I know he's not gonna abandon the air raid. I'm not advocating for him to. But he's got to establish a better running game than he has now. This simple draw BS isn't enough. He needs more pre-snap movement, sweeps, counters, maybe a read option. Those are easy 8 yard gains that he's giving up on in favor of check down passes. The defense isn't having to think. A thinking defense is a slow defense.

Right now, this offense will put up enough points to beat bad teams. If you have a negative play, the drive is toast. If you have to move with a sense of urgency, you're toast. If you have a 3rd or 4th and short, you're limited on what you can do because you literally have two running plays. It doesn't make sense. Leach can keep doing this and he'll win 4-5 games a year and will retire to Key West in 2 more years. Or he can adapt, add creativity and a better running game, and bump our ceiling to 7-8 wins. It's up to him.

You don't pay 5 mil for a 7-8 win ceiling

[Todd4State]

And about Dan Mullen- if the season ended today offensively we would have averaged as many points as Dan's offense did against SEC opponents in 2010 and 2011. I'm only using SEC opponents since that's all Leach has to play in year one. Since everyone felt so good about Dan's offense in 2009.

[Todd4State]

You don't pay 5 mil for a 7-8 win ceiling

So we should pay even more for coaches? The 5 million dollar thing is absolutely irrelevant and ridiculous.

We're not paying 5 million for one season. We're paying 5 million for long term overall success.

[BeardoMSU]

You don't pay 5 mil for a 7-8 win ceiling

How much were we paying Dan when he left, and how much did we offer him to stay? And what was his yearly avg in wins?

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

How much were we paying Dan when he left, and how much did we offer him to stay? And what was his yearly avg in wins?

If anyone's wondering we matched Florida's $6M offer.

Some people are still suck in old ways. Coaching salaries have been booming for a while. Stop thinking of what a coach "deserves" to get paid or you'll always be shaking your head at how much a given coach is underperforming. The reality is the difference between a 6 win and an 8 win coach is several millions in value ot the athletic program, let alone the local economy. THAT'S why the salaries keep booming, you can't afford to not pay them

[Cowbell]

I respect C34 and usually always enjoy reading his takes but it's clear here that he and plenty others on this board have an ax to grind with Leach. I really don't think they want him to succeed. Regardless of how our record is at the end of the year this year has been the most difficult year in the history of MSU football and it's much more difficult for us than probably any other D1 team I know of with covid, culture, opt-outs, tap outs combined. I don't always agree that moral victories are good but in this case I'm very happy with what I see. I believe that 3 years from now barring any more virus issues that we will be very good.

It's not that there's an ac to grind. But it's clear that our offense is very limited and not because of talent. That's only obvious to those that want to see it. Hopefully adaptations are part of the offseason.

[Todd4State]

It's not that there's an ac to grind. But it's clear that our offense is very limited and not because of talent. That's only obvious to those that want to see it. Hopefully adaptations are part of the offseason.

So- in theory our offense will be the same when Leach gets upperclass players and more players that fit his system? Correct?

This despite players running open on every play.

[Percho]

It's not that there's an ac to grind. But it's clear that our offense is very limited and not because of talent. That's only obvious to those that want to see it. Hopefully adaptations are part of the offseason.

It's limited because of Fr LT Fr QB Fr WR Fr RB's and because of reps at practice.

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

It's limited because of Fr LT Fr QB Fr WR Fr RB's and because of reps at practice.

Not to mention the culture problems. The players are way more focused now than they were

[DeltaChicagoDog]

It's not that there's an ac to grind. But it's clear that our offense is very limited and not because of talent. That's only obvious to those that want to see it. Hopefully adaptations are part of the offseason.

What would our record be so far this year if we swapped rosters with Bama on offense? What do you suppose the ceiling would be?

[ShotgunDawg]

What would our record be so far this year if we swapped rosters with Bama on offense? What do you suppose the ceiling would be?

I doubt he responds

[Cowbell]

So we should pay even more for coaches? The 5 million dollar thing is absolutely irrelevant and ridiculous.

We're not paying 5 million for one season. We're paying 5 million for long term overall success.

Todd go back read the context / he was talking down the road.

[Cowbell]

How much were we paying Dan when he left, and how much did we offer him to stay? And what was his yearly avg in wins?

We aren't talking average. We are talking ceiling

[the_real_MSU_is_us]

We aren't talking average. We are talking ceiling

Dan won 10 games once, Jackie won 10 games once, and Leach has won 11 and 10 games a his previous 2 stops.

So yeah, I'd say our ceiling under Leach is about the same as our ceiling always has been

[Cowbell]

Dan won 10 games once, Jackie won 10 games once, and Leach has won 11 and 10 games a his previous 2 stops.

So yeah, I'd say our ceiling under Leach is about the same as our ceiling always has been

That's not what the previous poster said. Some of you guys need to learn how to comprehend and follow a discussion. He said 6-8. I'm not arguing with him or you.